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  1. #51
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    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Thread closed for review.

    This thread is now designated On-Topic.
    Last edited by opinterph; October 29th, 2013 at 06:22 PM. Reason: updated

  2. #52
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    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    The health plans don't meet minimum standards. It's an overblown story. The minimum premiums these folks were paying weren't helping them. It gave them the illusion of health care at the cost of high deductibles they never would have been able to afford without still going bankrupt.

    Fortunately, if you look into the news story, you'll find that the ACA offers tax credits that actually mitigate the premium cost of a better plan.
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    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Just_Believe18 View Post
    The health plans don't meet minimum standards. It's an overblown story. The minimum premiums these folks were paying weren't helping them. It gave them the illusion of health care at the cost of high deductibles they never would have been able to afford without still going bankrupt.

    Fortunately, if you look into the news story, you'll find that the ACA offers tax credits that actually mitigate the premium cost of a better plan.
    Yep. I could get the equivalent of my current insurance for about $100/mo.

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  4. #54
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    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Ahhh more smoke and mirrors by the party of blame Obama. I was asked by a writhing, foamy mouthed, Limbaugh-ite today whether I STILL believed that the ACA was a good idea with hundfedsrof thousands losing their insurance. So i relayed signing my mom up for massive reductions.

    The response was "You just like him dont you, you just blindly support him no matter"

    What I ask the older gentleman was "When will your party start addressing issues and get off BHO's jock, it has failed you so far and will continue to fail you, develop a policy or maybe even two to stand upon"

    That is pretty much where the republican party is left. No issues that resound with Americans so they just call names and hope it makes everyone come to their side.
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  5. #55

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    Ahhh more smoke and mirrors by the party of blame Obama. I was asked by a writhing, foamy mouthed, Limbaugh-ite today whether I STILL believed that the ACA was a good idea with hundfedsrof thousands losing their insurance. So i relayed signing my mom up for massive reductions.

    The response was "You just like him dont you, you just blindly support him no matter"

    What I ask the older gentleman was "When will your party start addressing issues and get off BHO's jock, it has failed you so far and will continue to fail you, develop a policy or maybe even two to stand upon"

    That is pretty much where the republican party is left. No issues that resound with Americans so they just call names and hope it makes everyone come to their side.
    JayHawk, this is bigger than just a Democrat vs. Republican thing. There are some nutty Republicans and Tea Partiers out there, but this is about a serious issue re: Obamacare.

    That's wonderful that your mother is getting "massive reductions". Some people will benefit under Obamacare, no question. People who were denied insurance before because they had illnesses or conditions, and people who could not afford any insurance at all will have free (or low cost) insurance.

    But it's simple math. The money to pay for taking care of hundreds of thousands of very sick and low income Americans has to come from somewhere. And that's the catch. Obamacare works by allowing insurance companies to charge higher monthly insurance fees to younger Americans & middle class Americans to offset the costs the insurance companies pay to take care of the older, poorer, sicker Americans.

    And, Obama declared many times -- including in his state of the union speech in 2010 -- in no uncertain terms, that if we already had insurance and liked our plan, we could keep it. Call it a lie, call it misinformation, call it whatever you want.......but what he said was simply not true.

    My health insurance is cancelled at the end of the year and I have to switch to an Obamacare plan, which will be over twice the amount I pay now.

    Why weren't we informed sooner (like before Obamacare passed & before Obama got re-elected) that some of us would be paying a lot more for our health insurance, while other people would get it for free?
    Last edited by JayQueer; October 30th, 2013 at 12:33 AM.
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  6. #56

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Just_Believe18 View Post
    The health plans don't meet minimum standards. It's an overblown story. The minimum premiums these folks were paying weren't helping them. It gave them the illusion of health care at the cost of high deductibles they never would have been able to afford without still going bankrupt.

    Fortunately, if you look into the news story, you'll find that the ACA offers tax credits that actually mitigate the premium cost of a better plan.
    1) Americans were told, in no uncertain terms, by President Obama that we could keep our insurance plans if we liked it. It was one of the big selling points for Obamacare because he wanted to reassure everyone that Obamacare was not a massive "government takeover" of insurance. The "insurance marketplace" (that website that doesn't work right despite spending over $600 billion on it), was supposed to be for people who had never had insurance before, or wanted to shop for a new plan. The American public was not told that millions of us would be kicked out of our insurance against our will because of Obamacare.

    2) The tax credits only apply if your gross income is up to a certain point. If your income is just barely above that point, you get nothing. Also, the increased cost (even with the tax credits) put a lot of strain on middle-class Americans just struggling to stay afloat in this economy.
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  7. #57
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    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Before I was old enough for Medicare, I think I probably had one of those complete-piece-of-shit insurance policies for which I would have received a cancellation notice. It didn't pay for routine clinic visits, health screenings (physicals), prescriptions (unless while IN a hospital), X-rays, colonoscopies, etc. (Or actually, for some of the tests, it actually DID pay something - $100 - towards some of the tests. In that case it was still nearly like having no insurance.) When I had a bill of more than $26,000 in 2003 when a cancerous kidney was removed, the damned insurance paid less than one-half of the bill, leaving me hanging with a horrible cost to pay myself. Even at that, it took them MORE THAN FIVE MONTHS to pay, and the hospital was on the verge of sending my bill for collection which would have added thousands of dollars to it.

    And, of course, I was absolutely trapped FOREVER in that Godawful insurance policy...because I now had a pre-existing condition, and getting a policy from elsewhere was utterly impossible. At the time of the operation, my fears were actually worse - that I would end up NOT bring trapped in that awful policy - because it was *PERFECTLY LEGAL* for the insurer to arbitrary cancel-my-ass on the spot because I was unfortunate enough to get cancer. I was worried far more about THAT happening, than even the risks from my cancer or possible infection.

    FORTUNATELY *NONE* OF THOSE THINGS HAPPENED - and in 2011, after a late follow-up and CT-scan and an appointment with an oncologist [cancer doctor], the oncologist actually used the word "CURED" to describe my condition. I thought they NEVER use that word? (I was also charged nearly $7,000 for that CT-scan and the damned insurance only paid $100, so I had to pay nearly $7,000 out of my own pocket!)

    If the exact current and the soon-to-be-effective parts of "Obamacare" had all existed in 2004, I would have VERY happily and cheerfully used its provisions to get out of my horrible insurance and actually get a policy that would pay me something better than shit, even if it had cost a couple thousand more****. If "Obamacare" had existed in 2003 I would have had no reason to go through those terrifying worries that I could have continuing cancer and the insurance company could cancel-my-ass and every bit of my life savings could have disappeared.

    ****Before seeing how horrible the payout was, once they FINALLY paid in 2004 by using whatever minimal and very capricious and arbitrary claim adjustments they used, I never had any reason to think I had awful insurance.

    THAT is why people will be paying more...because TERRIBLY INFERIOR policies which pay for almost nothing are not allowed any more.
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  8. #58
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    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by JayQueer View Post
    My health insurance is cancelled at the end of the year and I have to switch to an Obamacare plan, which will be over twice the amount I pay now.
    Other mentions of this that I've seen, mention CANCELLATION NOTICES (rescissions), but yours is the first one I've seen that mentions any kind of time frame. I assumed that everybody was talking about their insurances being canceled effective IMMEDIATELY upon receipt of the letters, perhaps sent via Certified Mail and signed by the no-longer-insured person receiving it.

    Possibly somebody else in this thread mentioned a time frame as well, but I admit that I haven't read the entire thread. this makes me curious, now, how much advance notice people are getting. Is there any kind of standard, or does it vary with each insurer? Your timing, so "conveniently" at December 31, makes me suspicious that there is no standard amount of time...or is it to the end of the time period for which premiums have been paid, or what? Or is your "end of the year" only a generic reference to a more specific date which may be something like December 22 or January 4?

    I hope that people are given at least SOME time to get replacement insurance, and I mean I hope it's something like 60 days MINIMUM, because it can take a long time to shop around for a new insurance, especially with the website(s) malfunctioning so badly and all.
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    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    [Text: Removed] We are talking about people who have insurance policies now. A major purpose of Obamacare is to extort more from those people to make the gift of insurance to those with preexisting illness.

    I dont see anything wrong with that.

    The people who are chiding Obamcare are the same people that say hes a muslim, hes a terrorist, hostage holders in the tea party. All the same people.


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    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Right wing Republican Pigs will do anything to stop this. So glad this American is now also British, and pays nothing for some of the best health care in the world the states are f'd up. What I can not get is if people do not have health care the clog emergency room that must of course take care of them and will never be paid sick..

  11. #61

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    If they had not told the lie, Obamacare would not have passed. It was a very close thing as it was. They had to bribe Sen Nelson to get his swing vote, remember? What they meant was" If you like your existing policy, you might be able to keep it if the Democrat bureaucrats approve it." If it does not generate enough cash to pay for other peoples insurance, it will not "meet meet minimum standards."

  12. #62
    Virtus in medio stat JUB Admin opinterph's Avatar
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    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by JayQueer View Post
    The "insurance marketplace" (that website that doesn't work right despite spending over $600 billion on it),
    Wow. That’s more than 15% of the entire federal budget.


    Quote Originally Posted by JayQueer View Post
    The American public was not told that millions of us would be kicked out of our insurance against our will because of Obamacare.

  13. #63

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Just_Believe18 View Post
    The health plans don't meet minimum standards. It's an overblown story. The minimum premiums these folks were paying weren't helping them. It gave them the illusion of health care at the cost of high deductibles they never would have been able to afford without still going bankrupt.

    Fortunately, if you look into the news story, you'll find that the ACA offers tax credits that actually mitigate the premium cost of a better plan.
    ... nothing to say about the topic of the thread?

  14. #64

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    Ahhh more smoke and mirrors by the party of blame Obama. I was asked by a writhing, foamy mouthed, Limbaugh-ite today whether I STILL believed that the ACA was a good idea with hundfedsrof thousands losing their insurance. So i relayed signing my mom up for massive reductions.

    The response was "You just like him dont you, you just blindly support him no matter"

    What I ask the older gentleman was "When will your party start addressing issues and get off BHO's jock, it has failed you so far and will continue to fail you, develop a policy or maybe even two to stand upon"

    That is pretty much where the republican party is left. No issues that resound with Americans so they just call names and hope it makes everyone come to their side.
    ... again, no response to the topic of the thread. Obama lied about people getting to keep their own insurance. Changing the subject to bashing republicans does nothing to promote the President as an honest man.

  15. #65

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by frankfrank View Post
    Before I was old enough for Medicare, I think I probably had one of those complete-piece-of-shit insurance policies for which I would have received a cancellation notice. It didn't pay for routine clinic visits, health screenings (physicals), prescriptions (unless while IN a hospital), X-rays, colonoscopies, etc. (Or actually, for some of the tests, it actually DID pay something - $100 - towards some of the tests. In that case it was still nearly like having no insurance.) When I had a bill of more than $26,000 in 2003 when a cancerous kidney was removed, the damned insurance paid less than one-half of the bill, leaving me hanging with a horrible cost to pay myself. Even at that, it took them MORE THAN FIVE MONTHS to pay, and the hospital was on the verge of sending my bill for collection which would have added thousands of dollars to it.

    And, of course, I was absolutely trapped FOREVER in that Godawful insurance policy...because I now had a pre-existing condition, and getting a policy from elsewhere was utterly impossible. At the time of the operation, my fears were actually worse - that I would end up NOT bring trapped in that awful policy - because it was *PERFECTLY LEGAL* for the insurer to arbitrary cancel-my-ass on the spot because I was unfortunate enough to get cancer. I was worried far more about THAT happening, than even the risks from my cancer or possible infection.

    FORTUNATELY *NONE* OF THOSE THINGS HAPPENED - and in 2011, after a late follow-up and CT-scan and an appointment with an oncologist [cancer doctor], the oncologist actually used the word "CURED" to describe my condition. I thought they NEVER use that word? (I was also charged nearly $7,000 for that CT-scan and the damned insurance only paid $100, so I had to pay nearly $7,000 out of my own pocket!)

    If the exact current and the soon-to-be-effective parts of "Obamacare" had all existed in 2004, I would have VERY happily and cheerfully used its provisions to get out of my horrible insurance and actually get a policy that would pay me something better than shit, even if it had cost a couple thousand more****. If "Obamacare" had existed in 2003 I would have had no reason to go through those terrifying worries that I could have continuing cancer and the insurance company could cancel-my-ass and every bit of my life savings could have disappeared.

    ****Before seeing how horrible the payout was, once they FINALLY paid in 2004 by using whatever minimal and very capricious and arbitrary claim adjustments they used, I never had any reason to think I had awful insurance.

    THAT is why people will be paying more...because TERRIBLY INFERIOR policies which pay for almost nothing are not allowed any more.
    Nice read Frank, but you didn't address the topic of the thread. Did Obama lie in saying that people could keep their insurance.

    What I think you're saying is that the government knows what you need better than you do.

  16. #66

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by evanrick View Post
    I dont see anything wrong with that.

    The people who are chiding Obamcare are the same people that say hes a muslim, hes a terrorist, hostage holders in the tea party. All the same people.
    It doesn't appear that way ...

    Rep. Steny Hoyer said he knew ...

    http://www.nationalreview.com/corner...onathan-strong

    The big tea party supporter .. The New York Times and The LA Times ...

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/30/us...nder.html?_r=0

    http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...#axzz2jCy5LXbs

    Sometimes the talking points of the Administration and Media Matters just don't work.

  17. #67
    Virtus in medio stat JUB Admin opinterph's Avatar
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    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Did Obama lie in saying that people could keep their insurance[?]
    I think the truth was always in the mix, but the President generally chose to eschew the negative and present an optimistic view in his remarks.


    Q I'm sorry, but what about keeping your promise to the American people that they won't have to change plans even if employers --

    THE PRESIDENT: Well, no, no, I mean -- when I say if you have your plan and you like it and your doctor has a plan, or you have a doctor and you like your doctor that you don't have to change plans, what I'm saying is the government is not going to make you change plans under health reform.

    Press Conference By The President (The White House; June 23, 2009)
    Q Can you explain in just really clear and plain terms the disconnect between what the President said about if you want to keep your plan you can keep it, and what we see people complaining about, which is being kicked out of their plan or being told they have to buy a more expensive plan, or just general unhappiness in that segment? Can you explain that?

    MR. CARNEY: As the law says, and as the President made clear in the statements that you cite, if you had insurance coverage on the individual market when the Affordable Care Act was passed into law and you liked that plan and you wanted to stay on it, even though it didn't meet the minimum standards that the Affordable Care Act would bring into place on January 1, 2014, you can keep the coverage. You’re grandfathered in. That plan and your association with it are grandfathered in, in perpetuity -- not for a year, not for five years, but forever.

    But what is not the case is if your insurer basically threw you off that plan by telling you after a year or two that it was changing and said, here’s your new option because your plan has changed, that that new plan is grandfathered in. Because how could that be? You can't grandfather in a plan in 2010 that didn't come into existence until 2012 or 2011?

    Press Briefing by Press Secretary Jay Carney (The White House; October 29, 2013)

  18. #68
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    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by chuck10x View Post
    The cheaper plans are what the people could afford, Some may see a price break, With a Subsidy, But the new plans cost more. The Insurance companies have sent out letters saying the policies have been cancelled and they must purchase approved policies.
    It's not up to individuals as to whether they can afford their own health care.

    It's up to each of us as to whether we can afford a new car, or a vacation, or a home reno, or dinner out at a fancy restaurant. But the basics of whether we live or die or suffer without treatment, that's a shared responsibility.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  19. #69

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post
    I think the truth was always in the mix, but the President generally chose to eschew the negative and present an optimistic view in his remarks.
    Nice attempt at trying to spin what he said. He made a promise, changed the law to exclude his promise, and then kept telling the lie.

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    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    He made a promise, changed the law to exclude his promise, ...
    When did he change the law to exclude his promise?

  21. #71
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    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Nice read Frank, but you didn't address the topic of the thread. Did Obama lie in saying that people could keep their insurance.

    What I think you're saying is that the government knows what you need better than you do.
    The government knows better than most insurance companies what people need. That's because the government is made up of people. People who are tired of the kind of crap that frank had to put up with when billing and deductibles should have been the last things he had to worry about.

    If I promised that a new law would continue to let people pick whatever restaurant they wanted to eat at, I could still shut down someone's favourite restaurant for health violations because it didn't meet minimum standards and it would be ridiculous to say I lied.

    People still pick their own insurance. There is no lie.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  22. #72

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post
    When did he change the law to exclude his promise?

    None of this should come as a shock to the Obama administration. The law states that policies in effect as of March 23, 2010 will be “grandfathered,” meaning consumers can keep those policies even though they don’t meet requirements of the new health care law. But the Department of Health and Human Services then wrote regulations that narrowed that provision, by saying that if any part of a policy was significantly changed since that date -- the deductible, co-pay, or benefits, for example -- the policy would not be grandfathered.

    Buried in Obamacare regulations from July 2010 is an estimate that because of normal turnover in the individual insurance market, “40 to 67 percent” of customers will not be able to keep their policy. And because many policies will have been changed since the key date, “the percentage of individual market policies losing grandfather status in a given year exceeds the 40 to 67 percent range.”

    That means the administration knew that more than 40 to 67 percent of those in the individual market would not be able to keep their plans, even if they liked them.
    http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_n...insurance?lite

  23. #73

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    The government knows better than most insurance companies what people need. That's because the government is made up of people. People who are tired of the kind of crap that frank had to put up with when billing and deductibles should have been the last things he had to worry about.

    If I promised that a new law would continue to let people pick whatever restaurant they wanted to eat at, I could still shut down someone's favourite restaurant for health violations because it didn't meet minimum standards and it would be ridiculous to say I lied.

    People still pick their own insurance. There is no lie.
    So when a future republican Administration enacts a law and uses executive privilege to adjust that law .. you'll willingly go along with it because the government knows better than you?

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    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    … the Department of Health and Human Services then wrote regulations that narrowed that provision, by saying that if any part of a policy was significantly changed since that date -- the deductible, co-pay, or benefits, for example -- the policy would not be grandfathered.
    That was not a change, but an interim final rule handed down by the Department of Health and Human Services in conjunction with other federal agencies. The law anticipated such a regulation. And as your own quote illustrates, it was not an action taken by the President.

    II. Overview of the Regulations: Section 1251 of the Affordable Care Act, Preservation of Right To Maintain Existing Coverage (26 CFR 54.9815– 1251T, 29 CFR 2590.715–1251, and 45 CFR 147.140)

    In making grandfathered health plans subject to some but not all of the health reforms contained in the Affordable Care Act, the statute balances its objective of preserving the ability to maintain existing coverage with the goals of expanding access to and improving the quality of health coverage. The statute does not, however, address at what point changes to a group health plan or health insurance coverage in which an individual was enrolled on March 23, 2010 are significant enough to cause the plan or health insurance coverage to cease to be a grandfathered health plan, leaving that question to be addressed by regulatory guidance.

    Federal Register/Vol. 75, No. 116/Thursday, June 17, 2010/Rules and Regulations

  25. #75
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    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    ^^$2856 a year for health insurance with a combined income of $80,000 per annum should not be a strain raising one child.

  26. #76

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post
    That was not a change, but an interim final rule handed down by the Department of Health and Human Services in conjunction with other federal agencies. The law anticipated such a regulation. And as your own quote illustrates, it was not an action taken by the President.
    It was a change in the law. Congress gave HHS the right to write the law -- Congress did not write the specific law .. they gave away that authority to HHS. Don't you remember the infamous quote by Nancy Pelosi ''we have to pass it to find out what's in it'.

    If President Obama is not responsible for his own Administration and what it does ... who is responsible?

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    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by JayQueer View Post
    1) Americans were told, in no uncertain terms, by President Obama that we could keep our insurance plans if we liked it. It was one of the big selling points for Obamacare because he wanted to reassure everyone that Obamacare was not a massive "government takeover" of insurance. The "insurance marketplace" (that website that doesn't work right despite spending over $600 billion on it), was supposed to be for people who had never had insurance before, or wanted to shop for a new plan. The American public was not told that millions of us would be kicked out of our insurance against our will because of Obamacare.
    That's what the law says. What it doesn't do is dictate to insurance companies that they have to keep all the plans they're now offering. As someone pointed out, this happens all the time -- insurance companies can and do change the terms of your policy in order to protect their profit.

    The law was written that way to make Republicans happy: it lets the insurance companies continue to profit off the population.

    Quote Originally Posted by JayQueer View Post
    credits only apply if your gross income is up to a certain point. If your income is just barely above that point, you get nothing. Also, the increased cost (even with the tax credits) put a lot of strain on middle-class Americans just struggling to stay afloat in this economy.
    Well, duh -- just like income tax: it's figured on a sliding scale.

    Admittedly I only know six people who have actually gotten price figures, but all of them say that they'll pay less than the total cost of their policy before, for about the same thing.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Did Obama lie in saying that people could keep their insurance.
    No -- he just didn't tell the whole truth. The clause he didn't mention was that insurance companies could wipe out policies if they wanted, and that would kill some people's insurance.

    And of course that's exactly the way Republicans want it -- they don't want government interfering with profits. So while Obama was not entirely truthful, it's ironic that what he didn't tell us is what the GOP approves.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    It was a change in the law. Congress gave HHS the right to write the law -- Congress did not write the specific law .. they gave away that authority to HHS. Don't you remember the infamous quote by Nancy Pelosi ''we have to pass it to find out what's in it'.

    If President Obama is not responsible for his own Administration and what it does ... who is responsible?
    Presidents are never actually in charge, the bureaucracy is. That's been shown under several presidents, including Nixon, who have tried to get control of the federal bureaucracy. Unless they just shut down entire departments, the bureaucrats continue to do things as they please.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  30. #80

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    No -- he just didn't tell the whole truth. The clause he didn't mention was that insurance companies could wipe out policies if they wanted, and that would kill some people's insurance.

    And of course that's exactly the way Republicans want it -- they don't want government interfering with profits. So while Obama was not entirely truthful, it's ironic that what he didn't tell us is what the GOP approves.
    Sounds like lying to me. If you don't tell the whole truth and know you are not telling the truth . . . you are lying.

    Obama met privately with Big Insurance before they started on the bill in Congress. No one to this day knows what was discussed and promised in that meeting. We do know that insurance companies did not protest the PPACA.

  31. #81

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Presidents are never actually in charge, the bureaucracy is. That's been shown under several presidents, including Nixon, who have tried to get control of the federal bureaucracy. Unless they just shut down entire departments, the bureaucrats continue to do things as they please.
    We currently have the Obama Administration who controls the federal bureaucracy. They are in charge of what goes on -- if they aren't, we have an even more serious problem.

  32. #82

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    From the Washington Post . . .

    Source Link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...r-health-plan/

    The Pinocchio Test
    The administration is defending this pledge with a rather slim reed — that there is nothing in the law that makes insurance companies force people out of plans they were enrolled in before the law passed. That explanation conveniently ignores the regulations written by the administration to implement the law. Moreover, it also ignores the fact that the purpose of the law was to bolster coverage and mandate a robust set of benefits, whether someone wanted to pay for it or not.

    The president’s statements were sweeping and unequivocal — and made both before and after the bill became law. The White House now cites technicalities to avoid admitting that he went too far in his repeated pledge, which, after all, is one of the most famous statements of his presidency.

    The president’s promise apparently came with a very large caveat: “If you like your health care plan, you’ll be able to keep your health care plan — if we deem it to be adequate.”
    Last edited by opinterph; October 31st, 2013 at 02:51 PM. Reason: added source link

  33. #83
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    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    It's not up to individuals as to whether they can afford their own health care.

    It's up to each of us as to whether we can afford a new car, or a vacation, or a home reno, or dinner out at a fancy restaurant. But the basics of whether we live or die or suffer without treatment, that's a shared responsibility.
    I went to the website for estimates on plans, They added a Catastrophic plan, it isn't even as good as the Bronze, Cost is $291.00 for single coverage, Platinum Premium is over $800.00.
    Family coverage is much more expensive.
    One flaw in your assumption is that people will not get treatment if they do not have insurance, (they will suffer or die)
    Many people will take that chance for the same reason they do not currently have insurance, " They can't afford it".
    The policies that are being canceled on Dec 31st, Did not have among other things, Maternity care, Birth Control, prescription coverage, etc. What if they do not need them?

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    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    No -- he just didn't tell the whole truth. The clause he didn't mention was that insurance companies could wipe out policies if they wanted, and that would kill some people's insurance.

    And of course that's exactly the way Republicans want it -- they don't want government interfering with profits. So while Obama was not entirely truthful, it's ironic that what he didn't tell us is what the GOP approves.
    Omission of the truth is a worse lie, Just out today is the fact that Obama knew those insurance policy's would be canceled from the beginning. The ACA has a built in Profit margin, 80% must go to actual care, Something to think about when they need to raise prices

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    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    We currently have the Obama Administration who controls the federal bureaucracy. They are in charge of what goes on -- if they aren't, we have an even more serious problem.
    We've gad that "more serious problem" since Nixon.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  36. #86

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Compilation of Obama promising people they could keep their health care --- does not include any "if's".


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Compilation of Obama promising people they could keep their health care --- does not include any "if's".

    YouTube Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGAdrQ2RpdM
    And yet the world keeps turning. Obama won't be impeached, Hilary's chances won't suffer, and worst of all - people who would have remained uninsured, will still have healthcare.

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    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Compilation of Obama promising people they could keep their health care --- does not include any "if's".

    And the pilot of an airplane doesn't list all the "ifs" that could make it so the plane doesn't actually reach Honolulu at its appointed time, either -- those things are taken for granted. Given that the White House explained that companies could end policies any time they wanted, it's apparent that Obama assumed we were all bright enough to understand the "ifs" when he spoke.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Given that the White House explained that companies could end policies any time they wanted, it's apparent that Obama assumed we were all bright enough to understand the "ifs" when he spoke.
    That assumption might be giving more credit than is due. While it is true that the exceptions were presented very soon after passage of the ACA and there were adequate opportunities for public comment before the rules were adopted, most people don’t pay attention. They typically only hear the slogans and catchphrases.

    MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Three days before Congress voted to pass the Affordable Care Act in 2010, President Obama told Americans, who wanted to keep their health insurance, yes, you can. In the following three and a half years, Mr. Obama and administration officials repeated this promise, so many times that the White House website, WhiteHouse.gov, now has 102,000 matches for the words, quote, "You can keep your insurance," unquote.

    The McLaughlin Group (transcript) (Broadcast: Weekend of November 2-3, 2013)

  40. #90

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    And the pilot of an airplane doesn't list all the "ifs" that could make it so the plane doesn't actually reach Honolulu at its appointed time, either -- those things are taken for granted. Given that the White House explained that companies could end policies any time they wanted, it's apparent that Obama assumed we were all bright enough to understand the "ifs" when he spoke.
    You're joking. You're going to defend Obama? We have a right to take a person at his word.

    Parsing every comment shouldn't be necessary.

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    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    The White House should fire Carney as its spokesman...dissembling like we've seen here would make Bill Clinton himself proud... or to be charitable, utterly oblivious and clueless.
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    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    No -- he just didn't tell the whole truth. The clause he didn't mention was that insurance companies could wipe out policies if they wanted, and that would kill some people's insurance.

    And of course that's exactly the way Republicans want it -- they don't want government interfering with profits. So while Obama was not entirely truthful, it's ironic that what he didn't tell us is what the GOP approves.
    Funny you should mention that.
    I'm beginning to hear from people with High Risk Insurance policies due to a pre - existing condition are being cancelled and told to sign up with the exchanges. The prices being quoted are only estimates and will be adjusted according to your personal medical history. Also, Those Lousy Insurance policies being cancelled for better? The" Bronze" plan doesn't cover all they had before, They have to go a minimum of the "Silver Plan" to cover what they had before.

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    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post
    That assumption might be giving more credit than is due. While it is true that the exceptions were presented very soon after passage of the ACA and there were adequate opportunities for public comment before the rules were adopted, most people don’t pay attention. They typically only hear the slogans and catchphrases.
    President Obama is very good at saying one thing and meaning something completely different.
    Obama knows, People only hear what they want to hear. That goes for both Parties Democrat and Republican alike.

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    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Was there any kind of idea, before October 1, how many (and even whether) insurance companies would be discontinuing certain policies in complete "blanket" sweeps? There must have been some sense of this, otherwise there wouldn't have been the minimum standards to get rid of the shit contracts that barely cover you if you actually get sick, such as what I had. But, because I was already 65, this didn't come into play for me.
    Quote Originally Posted by chuck10x View Post
    The prices being quoted are only estimates and will be adjusted according to your personal medical history.
    I thought that the whole thing was supposed to be one huge pool, not 74,000 different rates per 100,000 insured people? Or perhaps at least several huge pools, separated by age brackets.

    Does that mean that somebody whose cancer is in remission (and whose bill cost the insurance company $122,000) might be paying $44,000 per year? Somebody else who had a similar experience but had one more day of care and the same insurance company paid $123,000 - will THAT person be paying $44,300 a year?

    The junk policies, are they being canceled because of the ACA, or because insurance companies can?

    What's going on (or not) in the background is still mysterious to us, even before considering what is or isn't in the new law.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuck10x View Post

    Funny you should mention that.
    I'm beginning to hear from people with High Risk Insurance policies due to a pre - existing condition are being cancelled and told to sign up with the exchanges. The prices being quoted are only estimates and will be adjusted according to your personal medical history. Also, Those Lousy Insurance policies being cancelled for better? The" Bronze" plan doesn't cover all they had before, They have to go a minimum of the "Silver Plan" to cover what they had before.
    That sounds like insurers acting as opportunists while skirting within the law. Not a whole lot different to cable companies that obfuscate to make comparing companies difficult for consumers or companies that attempt to make customers contact out of their legal rights.
    Did any part of the ACA ever say insurers were not able to offer better care than the absolute minimum?
    If not, then such cancellations are the commercial decisions of the company, not a government.

    Who should be blamed? The company for making such decisions, or the government?
    Blah blah blah, something enigmatic sounding...

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    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Jack, this is what you should post, if you're interested in honesty:

    http://www.alternet.org/video/video-...tter920457&t=7


    Note especially the video.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  47. #97

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Stewart couldn't say Obama was a habitual liar and mislead millions of American people intentionally to pass a law that affects 1/5 of our economy. The focus of Stewart and AlterNet is to make Fox News look bad to their liberal viewers and readers. I understand how propaganda works.

    In the end Obama lied about people being able to keep their insurance and doctor. Obama did this because the law would never have passed if he were honest.

  48. #98

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    .. and millions of Americans will not have insurance next year because of him.

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    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by frankfrank View Post
    Was there any kind of idea, before October 1, how many (and even whether) insurance companies would be discontinuing certain policies in complete "blanket" sweeps? There must have been some sense of this, otherwise there wouldn't have been the minimum standards to get rid of the shit contracts that barely cover you if you actually get sick, such as what I had. But, because I was already 65, this didn't come into play for me.

    I thought that the whole thing was supposed to be one huge pool, not 74,000 different rates per 100,000 insured people? Or perhaps at least several huge pools, separated by age brackets.

    Does that mean that somebody whose cancer is in remission (and whose bill cost the insurance company $122,000) might be paying $44,000 per year? Somebody else who had a similar experience but had one more day of care and the same insurance company paid $123,000 - will THAT person be paying $44,300 a year?

    The junk policies, are they being canceled because of the ACA, or because insurance companies can?

    What's going on (or not) in the background is still mysterious to us, even before considering what is or isn't in the new law.
    The Plans I saw , Including the added one that is never mentioned "Catastrophic" Give an "estimate" with the basic information provided. Prices will be adjusted up or down depending on further information.
    The "junk" plans actually covered more than the Catastrophic and Bronze Plan, When you check what is covered.
    The Insurance Companies are using the law to dump their High Risk Policies into higher cost Plans.
    At 65 you have MEDICARE and should make out great. It is the person in their 40's and 50's with a history of medical problems that will have the problem.

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    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    When an insurance company is required to insure a house that already on fire, or a patient who already has a terminal disease, that's not insurance. It's welfare.
    One of the basic facts of Obamacare is that if you have a pre-existing condition - Your Covered. You can not be denied Insurance.
    The young and Healthy will pay more to cover the older and sick, Thats how insurance works.
    In case something should happen to you, Well, The Insurance will then work in your favor.

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