JustUsBoys.com gay porn forum

logo

Page 1 of 4 12 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 50 of 166
  1. #1

    WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Finally the WH admitted that 'some' people will not be able to keep their health insurance. President Obama has repeatedly said for years that people who had health insurance would be able to keep that insurance.

    The journalist Ed Henry asked, "The president, when he was trying to get the law passed, repeatedly said, if you currently have health insurance you will be able to keep your plan. This morning David Axelrod was pressed on that point and said, the majority -- the vast majority -- will be able to keep their plans. He no longer works at the White House. From the podium, will you admit that when president said, if you have a plan, you'll get to keep it, that that was not true?"

    After some throat clearing, Carney said, "So it's true there are existing health care plans on the individual market that do not meet those minimum standards and therefore do not qualify for the Affordable Care Act."
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08UnZF43quI#t=18

    Last week we learned that Obama knew nothing about the problems with the healthcare.gov website and that the site was never truly tested before it's rollout. So far only one person has been fired.

    Quietly late last Friday the WH set a November deadline for the healthcare.gov web site to be fully working. That gives about 15 days (it has been said it takes 15 days to process applications) for people to sign up to get coverage starting January 1.
    Last edited by Jack Springer; October 28th, 2013 at 01:56 PM.

  2. #2
    FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE! TX-Beau's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Austin
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Open Relationship
    Posts
    8,618

    Code of Conduct

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    So you won't be able to keep a plan that doesn't meet minimum standards.

    How shocking, MARCH!! The black man is forcing you to get better health insurance!!!!!

    LOL
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

  3. #3
    Sex God chuck10x's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    philadelphia
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    626

    Code of Conduct

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    So you won't be able to keep a plan that doesn't meet minimum standards.

    How shocking, MARCH!! The black man is forcing you to get better health insurance!!!!!

    LOL
    The cheaper plans are what the people could afford, Some may see a price break, With a Subsidy, But the new plans cost more. The Insurance companies have sent out letters saying the policies have been cancelled and they must purchase approved policies.
    The point is, The President said if you like your Insurance, You can keep it, That was a lie.
    Next up is - Your Doctor. Do you get to keep Him/Her?

  4. #4

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    So you won't be able to keep a plan that doesn't meet minimum standards.

    How shocking, MARCH!! The black man is forcing you to get better health insurance!!!!!

    LOL
    You cannot assume that the people whose policies are being take away by big brother can afford the exorbitant premiums of Obama care. I do not think Obama lied. He just makes promises that sound good without any concern for the truth. He probably knows less about Obama care than the members of this forum--very little.

  5. #5

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Now NBC News reports that the Administration knew people would not be able to keep their plans for a long time because of regulations buried in the law in July of 2010 -- that's over 3 years ago and yet we were told that everyone would be able to keep their plans.

    Buried in Obamacare regulations from July 2010 is an estimate that because of normal turnover in the individual insurance market, “40 to 67 percent” of customers will not be able to keep their policy. And because many policies will have been changed since the key date, “the percentage of individual market policies losing grandfather status in a given year exceeds the 40 to 67 percent range.”

    That means the administration knew that more than 40 to 67 percent of those in the individual market would not be able to keep their plans, even if they liked them.

    Yet President Obama, who had promised in 2009, “if you like your health plan, you will be able to keep your health plan,” was still saying in 2012, “If [you] already have health insurance, you will keep your health insurance.”
    Four sources deeply involved in the Affordable Care Act tell NBC NEWS that 50 to 75 percent of the 14 million consumers who buy their insurance individually can expect to receive a “cancellation” letter or the equivalent over the next year because their existing policies don’t meet the standards mandated by the new health care law. One expert predicts that number could reach as high as 80 percent. And all say that many of those forced to buy pricier new policies will experience “sticker shock.”
    http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_n...insurance?lite

  6. #6

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    So you won't be able to keep a plan that doesn't meet minimum standards.

    How shocking, MARCH!! The black man is forcing you to get better health insurance!!!!!

    LOL
    Health insurance that includes maternity and pregnancy coverage -- which I don't think you need but will still have to pay for in your policy.

  7. #7
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Boystown, Chicago
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    8,931

    Code of Conduct

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    You cannot assume that the people whose policies are being take away by big brother can afford the exorbitant premiums of Obama care. I do not think Obama lied. He just makes promises that sound good without any concern for the truth. He probably knows less about Obama care than the members of this forum--very little.
    Silly lies.

    So far Obamacare prices have been consistently cheaper than existing plans.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  8. #8

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    [Quoted Post: Removed]
    [Text: Removed] We are talking about people who have insurance policies now. A major purpose of Obamacare is to extort more from those people to make the gift of insurance to those with preexisting illness.
    Last edited by opinterph; October 29th, 2013 at 06:19 PM. Reason: removed verbiage quoted from another poster; removed inflammatory remark

  9. #9
    Virtus in medio stat JUB Admin opinterph's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Jawja
    Status
    Partnered
    Posts
    21,828
    Blog Entries
    14

    Code of Conduct

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    (From linked article)
    Buried in Obamacare regulations from July 2010 is an estimate that because of normal turnover in the individual insurance market, “40 to 67 percent” of customers will not be able to keep their policy.
    (From linked article)
    Four sources deeply involved in the Affordable Care Act tell NBC NEWS that 50 to 75 percent of the 14 million consumers who buy their insurance individually can expect to receive a “cancellation” letter or the equivalent over the next year because their existing policies don’t meet the standards mandated by the new health care law.
    So the number of individuals presently covered through the individual market that may be required to replace their existing insurance plans could number between 5.6 and 11.2 million?


    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Health insurance that includes maternity and pregnancy coverage -- which I don't think you need but will still have to pay for in your policy.
    Will policies issued to cover single men specify that the coverage includes maternity and pregnancy?

  10. #10
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Boystown, Chicago
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    8,931

    Code of Conduct

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    [Text: Removed] We are talking about people who have insurance policies now. A major purpose of Obamacare is to extort more from those people to make the gift of insurance to those with preexisting illness.
    "Extort"? "The gift of insurance"? Disgusting terminology. Simply disgusting. People with pre-existing conditions won't be paying for it or something? Or do you think they SHOULDN'T have access to insurance, as it is now?

    And I don't "lie", because I remember well the article describing the Fox News horror story cases that ALL turned out to have cheaper and better insurance under Obamacare.
    Last edited by opinterph; October 29th, 2013 at 06:18 PM. Reason: removed verbiage quoted from another poster
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  11. #11
    Virtus in medio stat JUB Admin opinterph's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Jawja
    Status
    Partnered
    Posts
    21,828
    Blog Entries
    14

    Code of Conduct

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    I remember well the article describing the Fox News horror story cases that ALL turned out to have cheaper and better insurance under Obamacare.
    Maybe you should share a link.

  12. #12
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Boystown, Chicago
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    8,931

    Code of Conduct

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    It's in the OP of "Obamacare and the Horror stories".
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  13. #13
    FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE! TX-Beau's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Austin
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Open Relationship
    Posts
    8,618

    Code of Conduct

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    It's in the OP of "Obamacare and the Horror stories".
    http://www.salon.com/2013/10/18/insi..._on_obamacare/

    You're welcome.

    Now I get to tag your ass.
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

  14. #14

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Here is the LA Times showing that people with existing policies are having big increases. http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...#axzz2j1tIOY71
    A major purpose of the obamacare was to get pay medical expense for people already sick. They cannot buy insurance because their expense will exceed the premiums, if any they can pay. If you have a bad heart, you cannot expect to pay 300 for a policy and expect the insurance company to pay for a coronary by-pass operation. If you house is on fire, you cannot pay a 500 premium and expect the company to build you a new house. It would not be insurance, it would be a gift.
    Insurance companies cannot issue insurance policies to the sick without going broke. The idea of obamacare was to force everyone to buy a policy at inflated premiums and use the excess to give health care to those with preexisting illnesses. Big increase for the young and healthy is a big part of the plan.

  15. #15

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post
    So the number of individuals presently covered through the individual market that may be required to replace their existing insurance plans could number between 5.6 and 11.2 million?




    Will policies issued to cover single men specify that the coverage includes maternity and pregnancy?
    Yes, single men will have to have maternity and pregnancy coverage. Removing maternity coverage is not an option with the ACA.

  16. #16

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    http://www.salon.com/2013/10/18/insi..._on_obamacare/

    You're welcome.

    Now I get to tag your ass.
    You're reading propaganda instead of reading real news stories. Look at the news links provided in this thread.

    You can also watch TV ... the story is being covered by everyone this morning.

  17. #17
    Do I dare to eat a peach?
    palbert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Coastal Downeast Maine
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    11,135

    Code of Conduct

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Four sources deeply involved in the Affordable Care Act tell NBC News that 50 to 75 percent of the 14 million consumers who buy their insurance individually can expect to receive a “cancellation” letter or the equivalent over the next year because their existing policies don’t meet the standards mandated by the new health care law. One expert predicts that number could reach as high as 80 percent. And all say that many of those forced to buy pricier new policies will experience “sticker shock.”
    http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_n...insurance?lite

    My math says somewhere between 7 million and 10.5 million.

    The reason for "sticker shock" is probably that most people are not aware of the actual cost of health care, or the disparity among regions in its cost. Health care procedures here in Maine cost less than the came procedures in, say, New York or New Jersey.

    In a study of colonoscopy costs:

    MERRICK, N.Y. — Deirdre Yapalater’s recent colonoscopy at a surgical center near her home here on Long Island went smoothly: she was whisked from pre-op to an operating room where a gastroenterologist, assisted by an anesthesiologist and a nurse, performed the routine cancer screening procedure in less than an hour. The test, which found nothing worrisome, racked up what is likely her most expensive medical bill of the year: $6,385.

    That is fairly typical: in Keene, N.H., Matt Meyer’s colonoscopy was billed at $7,563.56. Maggie Christ of Chappaqua, N.Y., received $9,142.84 in bills for the procedure. In Durham, N.C., the charges for Curtiss Devereux came to $19,438, which included a polyp removal. While their insurers negotiated down the price, the final tab for each test was more than $3,500.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/02/he...itures.html?hp

    Mine, in Maine, costs about the national average, ~US$1,200.00.

  18. #18
    Do I dare to eat a peach?
    palbert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Coastal Downeast Maine
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    11,135

    Code of Conduct

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    ^^^ EDIT:

    The NYTimes article is an excellent overview of the medical care cost problem.

  19. #19
    veni, vidi, reliqui
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Partnered
    Posts
    33,677

    Code of Conduct

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by palbert View Post
    http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_n...insurance?lite

    My math says somewhere between 7 million and 10.5 million.

    The reason for "sticker shock" is probably that most people are not aware of the actual cost of health care, or the disparity among regions in its cost. Health care procedures here in Maine cost less than the came procedures in, say, New York or New Jersey.

    In a study of colonoscopy costs:



    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/02/he...itures.html?hp

    Mine, in Maine, costs about the national average, ~US$1,200.00.
    This is what is staggering about the US system. A colonoscopy is a colonoscopy is a colonoscopy. That the range of charges can vary across the states by tens of thousands of dollars indicates that a lot of people in the administration side are making out like bandits. The dollars are not going into the product...they are going into unnecessary non-clinical overheads.

  20. #20
    Virtus in medio stat JUB Admin opinterph's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Jawja
    Status
    Partnered
    Posts
    21,828
    Blog Entries
    14

    Code of Conduct

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    The number of people with health insurance increased to 263.2 million in 2012 from 260.2 million in 2011

    The percentage of people covered by private health insurance in 2012 was not statistically different from 2011, at 63.9 percent.

    Income, Poverty and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States: 2012 (US Census Bureau)
    0.639 * 263.2 = 168.2

    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post
    So the number of individuals presently covered through the individual market that may be required to replace their existing insurance plans could number between 5.6 and 11.2 million?
    Using that same range^ these policy cancellations affect roughly one or two persons out of every ten (of all persons covered by private health insurance.)

    0.056 * 168.2 = 9.4%

    0.112 * 168.2 = 18.8%


    [2009] Report: Individual Health Insurance Market Failing Consumers (The Commonwealth Fund)

  21. #21
    Do I dare to eat a peach?
    palbert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Coastal Downeast Maine
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    11,135

    Code of Conduct

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    I admit being confused in this welter of data.

    From this morning's interviews, primarily with Lisa Myers, NBC's tasked reporter, I am given to understand (fully expect to hear if otherwise) that the "cancellations" are actually terminations of ACA non-compliant policies and replacement or substitution of different non-compliant policies, of different premium structures, or even of compliant policies.

    To some extent I must go back to "sticker shock" as affecting the attitudes of both "realists" or "whiners." If those having now non-compliant policies (which are not grandfathered back to March 23, 2010 because the coverage underwent a "significant change" in the time since then) I can have little sympathy.

    I can fully understand why a single man would object to subsidizing maternity care. I think that, and possibly other coverage, should be severable. But then as a single non-father I object to subsidizing public education. (And subsidizing sports packages on DirecTV.)

  22. #22
    Do I dare to eat a peach?
    palbert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Coastal Downeast Maine
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    11,135

    Code of Conduct

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Continuing the queries:

    Is there any correlation between the non-state-sponsored exchanges' states and the cancellations/terminations? Can that even be correlated?

  23. #23
    JUB Addict darden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Jersey City
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Partnered
    Posts
    1,239

    Code of Conduct

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    objectively, it seems like the White House was either lying or willfully ignorant of the report that millions wouldn't be able to keep their current health care plans.

    but realistically, it probably won't affect the vast majority in any negative way.

  24. #24

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    ^^

    According to the NBC News report the Administration knew in 2010 that they people could not keep their insurance.

    Such a major issue would have to be known within the Administration and by the President. Americans can't continually be expected to believe that Obama knows little about what goes on within his Administration.

    http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_n...insurance?lite

  25. #25
    Virtus in medio stat JUB Admin opinterph's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Jawja
    Status
    Partnered
    Posts
    21,828
    Blog Entries
    14

    Code of Conduct

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by palbert View Post
    Is there any correlation between the non-state-sponsored exchanges' states and the cancellations/terminations? Can that even be correlated?
    I have not found a site that makes that correlation. It seems that the cancellations are most often reported per insurer, with mention of the affected states.

    It is my understanding that persons who like their current non-compliant plan and wish to keep it may do so IF the insurance provider continues to offer that plan. However, persons who remain (or become) insured under non-compliant plans will be subject to the tax penalty for failure to enroll in a compliant plan.

    Persons who seek to obtain coverage outside the open enrollment period may have no option but to purchase short-term policies that may not provide coverage for pre-existing conditions or qualify as a compliant plan.

    (The situation may vary from state to state.)

  26. #26
    JUB Addict vulgar_newcomer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    St. Petersburg
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    2,801

    Code of Conduct

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    I felt that was a bad mistake when President Obama kept repeating the point about keeping your insurance. Anyone who has had a real job with real benefits flat out knows that their health insurance with their employer frequently changes from year to year, and the benefits change (usually for the worst regarding the consumer/insured) even more frequently. The private sector run for profit health care is the problem. I never understood why President Obama didn't say something more in lines If your employer offers a quality health plan their will be no change as far as the ACA law is concerned, that is a private matter with your employer and their employees as it has always been. The majority will see no effect from the ACA. The same will hold true with private policies that are offer true benefits (in other words not underwritten in trash back water states like SC, TX or Miss). But he didn't say that... he hasn't handled this well in what admittedly was going to be problematic upon the start up like any new program faces.
    Last edited by vulgar_newcomer; October 29th, 2013 at 08:43 AM.

  27. #27
    JUB Addict vulgar_newcomer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    St. Petersburg
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    2,801

    Code of Conduct

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Health insurance that includes maternity and pregnancy coverage -- which I don't think you need but will still have to pay for in your policy.
    This is the latest fad in tea bagger me, me, me mentality & terminology. Seems to be a lack of understanding in what exactly a shared risk is. Because a male has little need for maternity care doesn't mean it will be that way their entire adult life from 18 to death. I even know some gay dudes that got married and have had kids. The same argument could be made that woman shouldn't have to cover prostrate cancer as the great majority of prostrate cancer is with older men, why should a 33 yr old female have to insure for that?
    Or the rednecks could say wait a minute I'm a white Alabama born man and have 1 white wife why should I have to have coverage that covers a majority black illness like sickle Cell Anemia?
    My private United Health Care policy covered drugs like Viagra at 100% now why in the hell should woman have to cover drugs like Viagra in the policy they pay for?
    Wait a minute say the bible thumper in the Ozarks of Arkansas why should my health plan cover medications and treatment for homosexual AIDS related illness .

    What a small mean nasty brain thinks like this, but sadly the walnut sized Einsteins seem to reign supreme in there selfish lack of understanding.
    Things like good quality maternity care for pregnant woman benefit all society not just he woman and her new born.

    Where does this ignorance and selfish attitude end in our society?

  28. #28
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Boystown, Chicago
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    8,931

    Code of Conduct

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Here is the LA Times showing that people with existing policies are having big increases. http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...#axzz2j1tIOY71
    A major purpose of the obamacare was to get pay medical expense for people already sick. They cannot buy insurance because their expense will exceed the premiums, if any they can pay. If you have a bad heart, you cannot expect to pay 300 for a policy and expect the insurance company to pay for a coronary by-pass operation. If you house is on fire, you cannot pay a 500 premium and expect the company to build you a new house. It would not be insurance, it would be a gift.
    Insurance companies cannot issue insurance policies to the sick without going broke. The idea of obamacare was to force everyone to buy a policy at inflated premiums and use the excess to give health care to those with preexisting illnesses. Big increase for the young and healthy is a big part of the plan.
    I asked you what you thought about pre-existing conditions. Should they just die out?
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  29. #29
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,110
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by chuck10x View Post
    The cheaper plans are what the people could afford, Some may see a price break, With a Subsidy, But the new plans cost more. The Insurance companies have sent out letters saying the policies have been cancelled and they must purchase approved policies.
    The point is, The President said if you like your Insurance, You can keep it, That was a lie.
    Next up is - Your Doctor. Do you get to keep Him/Her?
    In order to have made it not a "lie" in the view of right-wingers here, it would require the government to have authority over the day-to-day operations of the insurance companies, telling them which policies they can't cancel. So what the righties are really arguing for here is bigger government....

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  30. #30
    JUB Addict darden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Jersey City
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Partnered
    Posts
    1,239

    Code of Conduct

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    In order to have made it not a "lie" in the view of right-wingers here, it would require the government to have authority over the day-to-day operations of the insurance companies, telling them which policies they can't cancel. So what the righties are really arguing for here is bigger government....
    in order for it to have been a factually correct statement, rather than a lie/misrepresentation/uninformed statement, he would have had to say "you can keep your insurance if it meets ACA requirements" rather than

    any insurance that you currently have would be grandfathered in so you could keep... I would not be required to get the better one.

  31. #31
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,110
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    You lie. We are talking about people who have insurance policies now. A major purpose of Obamacare is to extort more from those people to make the gift of insurance to those with preexisting illness.
    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Here is the LA Times showing that people with existing policies are having big increases. http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...#axzz2j1tIOY71
    A major purpose of the obamacare was to get pay medical expense for people already sick. They cannot buy insurance because their expense will exceed the premiums, if any they can pay. If you have a bad heart, you cannot expect to pay 300 for a policy and expect the insurance company to pay for a coronary by-pass operation. If you house is on fire, you cannot pay a 500 premium and expect the company to build you a new house. It would not be insurance, it would be a gift.
    Insurance companies cannot issue insurance policies to the sick without going broke. The idea of obamacare was to force everyone to buy a policy at inflated premiums and use the excess to give health care to those with preexisting illnesses. Big increase for the young and healthy is a big part of the plan.
    These two posts illustrate the actual problem: one side is talking about caring for people's health, and the other is talking about business. The two are mutually exclusive, but thanks to Obama trying to be nice to the Republicans by adopting a Republican plan, we're trying to mix them -- a proposition which can't help but lead to insanity.

    What the GOP wants is a system that allows some to profit off the misfortune of others, leaving still others on the side unable to be in the game -- after all, if they could get away with it, the insurance companies would cover only those who will never be sick or injured. What the Democrats want is an actual health care system, where everyone gets taken care of regardless, and no one profits. So we should all stop pretending that we're actually talking about the same thing in the first place.

    Philosophically, what the Democrats want rests on a concept in the first phrase of the Constitution: "We, the people...." That phrase implies that the people are a body who can act together, who are a single entity, with their fortunes bound together. The Democrats believe that those people deserve a certain minimum standard of respect and care from one another because they are together, and that it is a legitimate function of government to require that everyone participate in ensuring that minimum.

    In contrast, the Republicans believe that "the people" are more atomistic, that the term has no substance but is merely a handy way of referring to all the individuals at once. To them, the general good of the people is best served by social Darwinism, allowing each and every to sink or swim on their own. Consequently, they see it as the proper function of government to stay out of the way, allowing those individuals who have fewer resources and lesser talents to fade and even die, while rewarding those who advance above their fellows.

    Perhaps a comment from Benjamin Franklin is fitting: If we do not all hang together, we shall most assuredly hang separately.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  32. #32
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,110
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    This is what is staggering about the US system. A colonoscopy is a colonoscopy is a colonoscopy. That the range of charges can vary across the states by tens of thousands of dollars indicates that a lot of people in the administration side are making out like bandits. The dollars are not going into the product...they are going into unnecessary non-clinical overheads.
    Actually, the cost of a given process at a given hospital is far more directly related to the number of patients who cannot pay than to the overhead.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  33. #33
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,110
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Such a major issue would have to be known within the Administration and by the President. Americans can't continually be expected to believe that Obama knows little about what goes on within his Administration.
    But you're the one who keeps insisting that we should all believe exactly that!

    Make up your mind, Jack.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  34. #34
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,110
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by darden View Post
    in order for it to have been a factually correct statement, rather than a lie/misrepresentation/uninformed statement, he would have had to say "you can keep your insurance if it meets ACA requirements" rather than
    Sorry, but as Opinterph noted the president probably wasn't including the standard process of insurance companies dropping or changing plans. If Obama had added tha to his statement, the right would certainly be trying to make him look like a fool for saying something everyone takes for granted.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  35. #35
    veni, vidi, reliqui
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Partnered
    Posts
    33,677

    Code of Conduct

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by vulgar_newcomer View Post
    This is the latest fad in tea bagger me, me, me mentality & terminology. Seems to be a lack of understanding in what exactly a shared risk is. Because a male has little need for maternity care doesn't mean it will be that way their entire adult life from 18 to death. I even know some gay dudes that got married and have had kids. The same argument could be made that woman shouldn't have to cover prostrate cancer as the great majority of prostrate cancer is with older men, why should a 33 yr old female have to insure for that?
    Or the rednecks could say wait a minute I'm a white Alabama born man and have 1 white wife why should I have to have coverage that covers a majority black illness like sickle Cell Anemia?
    My private United Health Care policy covered drugs like Viagra at 100% now why in the hell should woman have to cover drugs like Viagra in the policy they pay for?
    Wait a minute say the bible thumper in the Ozarks of Arkansas why should my health plan cover medications and treatment for homosexual AIDS related illness .

    What a small mean nasty brain thinks like this, but sadly the walnut sized Einsteins seem to reign supreme in there selfish lack of understanding.
    Things like good quality maternity care for pregnant woman benefit all society not just he woman and her new born.

    Where does this ignorance and selfish attitude end in our society?
    It ends when you finally have a single payer, public option that cuts out the stupendous waste and greed in the health care delivery system.

    But as you point out, the same argument could be used by the intellectually stunted out there for auto insurance or fire and hazards insurance. If everyone wasn't paying to fund the overall risk to the pool of insured...insurance wouldn't work. Period. But why would we expect FOX Nation to understand the fundamentals of insurance?

  36. #36

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    These two posts illustrate the actual problem: one side is talking about caring for people's health, and the other is talking about business. The two are mutually exclusive, but thanks to Obama trying to be nice to the Republicans by adopting a Republican plan, we're trying to mix them -- a proposition which can't help but lead to insanity.

    What the GOP wants is a system that allows some to profit off the misfortune of others, leaving still others on the side unable to be in the game -- after all, if they could get away with it, the insurance companies would cover only those who will never be sick or injured. What the Democrats want is an actual health care system, where everyone gets taken care of regardless, and no one profits. So we should all stop pretending that we're actually talking about the same thing in the first place.

    Philosophically, what the Democrats want rests on a concept in the first phrase of the Constitution: "We, the people...." That phrase implies that the people are a body who can act together, who are a single entity, with their fortunes bound together. The Democrats believe that those people deserve a certain minimum standard of respect and care from one another because they are together, and that it is a legitimate function of government to require that everyone participate in ensuring that minimum.

    In contrast, the Republicans believe that "the people" are more atomistic, that the term has no substance but is merely a handy way of referring to all the individuals at once. To them, the general good of the people is best served by social Darwinism, allowing each and every to sink or swim on their own. Consequently, they see it as the proper function of government to stay out of the way, allowing those individuals who have fewer resources and lesser talents to fade and even die, while rewarding those who advance above their fellows.

    Perhaps a comment from Benjamin Franklin is fitting: If we do not all hang together, we shall most assuredly hang separately.
    Communism has a certain appeal to the weak, but it does not work in practice.
    Alas, it is not the democrat plan "for all to participate in ensuring the minimum". It is the democrat plan to reward its voters with welfare at the expense of others. With fewer that half paying income tax, while about half recieve welfare; with 11 million unemployed and millions more more flooding to be hurried to citizenship so they can vote to hurt than fewer and fewer taxpayers, we have abandoned any thought of shared risk.

  37. #37
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Boystown, Chicago
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    8,931

    Code of Conduct
    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post

    Communism has a certain appeal to the weak, but it does not work in practice.
    Alas, it is not the democrat plan "for all to participate in ensuring the minimum". It is the democrat plan to reward its voters with welfare at the expense of others. With fewer that half paying income tax, while about half recieve welfare; with 11 million unemployed and millions more more flooding to be hurried to citizenship so they can vote to hurt than fewer and fewer taxpayers, we have abandoned any thought of shared risk.
    Nobody is talking about communism.

    WHAT ABOUT PRE-EXISTING CONDITIONS?!
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  38. #38
    Virtus in medio stat JUB Admin opinterph's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Jawja
    Status
    Partnered
    Posts
    21,828
    Blog Entries
    14

    Code of Conduct

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    It is the democrat plan to reward its voters with welfare at the expense of others…
    You are straying too far from the topic of this discussion.

  39. #39
    Virtus in medio stat JUB Admin opinterph's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Jawja
    Status
    Partnered
    Posts
    21,828
    Blog Entries
    14

    Code of Conduct

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post
    … persons who remain … insured under non-compliant plans will be subject to the tax penalty for failure to enroll in a compliant plan.
    My earlier statement failed to account for exemptions available through the concept of grandfathered health plans. In other words, persons in plans that qualify to be grandfathered can keep their coverage and will be considered in compliance with the ACA personal mandate (no tax penalty). Nonetheless, insurers or employers can take actions that will cause the plan to lose its grandfathered status.

  40. #40
    JUB Addict darden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Jersey City
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Partnered
    Posts
    1,239

    Code of Conduct

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Sorry, but as Opinterph noted the president probably wasn't including the standard process of insurance companies dropping or changing plans. If Obama had added tha to his statement, the right would certainly be trying to make him look like a fool for saying something everyone takes for granted.
    but isn't the whole reason they had to change plans because of the ACA mandate? which, according to this article, they knew would happen and predicted that, in fact, millions would have to change plans before Obama promised that no one would have to.

    clearly, most of these plans will be changing for the better, but purely comparing Obama's statement to what they knew at the time, I don't see how it wasn't a lie (or at least willfully ignorant of their own data).

  41. #41
    Do I dare to eat a peach?
    palbert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Coastal Downeast Maine
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    11,135

    Code of Conduct

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by darden View Post
    but isn't the whole reason they had to change plans because of the ACA mandate? which, according to this article, they knew would happen and predicted that, in fact, millions would have to change plans before Obama promised that no one would have to.

    clearly, most of these plans will be changing for the better, but purely comparing Obama's statement to what they knew at the time, I don't see how it wasn't a lie (or at least willfully ignorant of their own data).
    If the insurer and insured kept the grandfathered plan they would not get a subsidy or tax credit.

  42. #42
    veni, vidi, reliqui
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Partnered
    Posts
    33,677

    Code of Conduct

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Communism has a certain appeal to the weak, but it does not work in practice.
    Alas, it is not the democrat plan "for all to participate in ensuring the minimum". It is the democrat plan to reward its voters with welfare at the expense of others. With fewer that half paying income tax, while about half recieve welfare; with 11 million unemployed and millions more more flooding to be hurried to citizenship so they can vote to hurt than fewer and fewer taxpayers, we have abandoned any thought of shared risk.
    To be as blunt as possible, the moment that the United States masses wake up to the fact that they are being raped by subsidizing the multi-national companies' egregious profits through helping to lower and maintain the minimum wage to a point where even the working poor cannot afford to live and require government assistance...then we can talk about welfare. It is obscene that in the US there are adults making $8.00 per hour at any job and expected to obtain shelter and food for themselves and family on this slave wage.

    If America weaned the corporations off using the State and Federal governments to top up the paycheques of all the poorest paid workers in the country...you'd need less welfare and smaller government.

    As long as the taxpayers and the Republican party keeps rewarding corporations by subsidizing their low wage employees, your arguments about welfare and assistance are utterly without merit.

  43. #43

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by vulgar_newcomer View Post
    This is the latest fad in tea bagger me, me, me mentality & terminology. Seems to be a lack of understanding in what exactly a shared risk is. Because a male has little need for maternity care doesn't mean it will be that way their entire adult life from 18 to death. I even know some gay dudes that got married and have had kids. The same argument could be made that woman shouldn't have to cover prostrate cancer as the great majority of prostrate cancer is with older men, why should a 33 yr old female have to insure for that?
    Or the rednecks could say wait a minute I'm a white Alabama born man and have 1 white wife why should I have to have coverage that covers a majority black illness like sickle Cell Anemia?
    My private United Health Care policy covered drugs like Viagra at 100% now why in the hell should woman have to cover drugs like Viagra in the policy they pay for?
    Wait a minute say the bible thumper in the Ozarks of Arkansas why should my health plan cover medications and treatment for homosexual AIDS related illness .

    What a small mean nasty brain thinks like this, but sadly the walnut sized Einsteins seem to reign supreme in there selfish lack of understanding.
    Things like good quality maternity care for pregnant woman benefit all society not just he woman and her new born.

    Where does this ignorance and selfish attitude end in our society?
    I'm going to assume you've never had to be concerned about whether your health insurance had pregnancy benefits. In the past you might have had to get a special policy for those benefits -- it was not always included. I know people who had to forego their company's health care because it did not include maternity coverage and had to buy it on the open market.

    Now you as a man will have to have coverage for your pregnancy and pay extra for it also.


    So we don't get off the subject of this thread .. the Administration purposely lied about people keeping their policies plus if people would not be able to keep their current policy, there is a good possibility that they will also not be able to keep their current doctor because different insurance companies have different groups of approved doctors.

    Also don't forget that any if there are any changes in policy coverage ... a new policy has to be written and that policy must be written within the guidelines of the ACA. GOTCHA

  44. #44

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post
    My earlier statement failed to account for exemptions available through the concept of grandfathered health plans. In other words, persons in plans that qualify to be grandfathered can keep their coverage and will be considered in compliance with the ACA personal mandate (no tax penalty). Nonetheless, insurers or employers can take actions that will cause the plan to lose its grandfathered status.
    Policies change every year, so I doubt there will be any grandfathered plans in one year.

    What a mess.

  45. #45

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    To be as blunt as possible, the moment that the United States masses wake up to the fact that they are being raped by subsidizing the multi-national companies' egregious profits through helping to lower and maintain the minimum wage to a point where even the working poor cannot afford to live and require government assistance...then we can talk about welfare. It is obscene that in the US there are adults making $8.00 per hour at any job and expected to obtain shelter and food for themselves and family on this slave wage.

    If America weaned the corporations off using the State and Federal governments to top up the paycheques of all the poorest paid workers in the country...you'd need less welfare and smaller government.

    As long as the taxpayers and the Republican party keeps rewarding corporations by subsidizing their low wage employees, your arguments about welfare and assistance are utterly without merit.
    You missed the point. We are not "a people" as we were at the time of the Constitution, and there can be no sense of shared risk in our society. The democrat policy of diversity and divide and conquer has succeeded.

  46. #46
    veni, vidi, reliqui
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Partnered
    Posts
    33,677

    Code of Conduct

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Bullshit.

  47. #47
    Do I dare to eat a peach?
    palbert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Coastal Downeast Maine
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    11,135

    Code of Conduct

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    You missed the point. We are not "a people" as we were at the time of the Constitution, and there can be no sense of shared risk in our society. The democrat policy of diversity and divide and conquer has succeeded.
    The tragedy of the commons?

  48. #48

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    ^^^

    That's enough talk about race.

    I ask the moderators to please stop this crazy talk every time something uncomfortable is brought up about President Obama. Throwing out the race card every time to change the subject or make someone defend themselves when they've done nothing wrong is unfair and demeaning to most who want CEP to be a serious discussion.

    Phrases have been banned before in CEP ... it's time to ban unfounded race accusations.



    This thread is focused on the fact that President Obama lied about people being able to keep their current insurance. He said it OVER and OVER AGAIN for YEARS.

    It's a simple topic.

  49. #49
    Sex God chuck10x's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    philadelphia
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    626

    Code of Conduct

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    [Quoted Post: Removed]
    www.healthcare.gov/find-premium-estimates
    Here is the link to find a policy that fits your budget. It only uses the basic information before you register.
    You will notice that it now has a catastrophic plan, cheaper than the Bronze plan that was never included before.
    We will see if the horror stories are correct about the prices.
    If anyone is inclined, Please post the lowest and highest prices available.
    Last edited by opinterph; October 29th, 2013 at 06:42 PM. Reason: removed verbiage quoted from another poster

  50. #50

    Re: WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

    Obama lied. He said, over & over again -- that if we liked our insurance plan, we could keep it. He lied.

    I received a letter from my insurance company telling me that my insurance is being cancelled because it "is not compliant" with Obamacare. I will have to pay over twice my previous monthly premium payments for a new "Obamacare approved" plan.

    Turns out I'm not alone. In just the state of CA, there are 2 million people on individual insurance & several hundred thousand people will lose their plan in a matter of weeks -- and will have to pay MORE for their health insurance.

    Read this article from the L.A. Times: "Some health insurance gets pricier as Obamacare rolls out"

    http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...#axzz2j9piuZJq

    Jennifer Harris used to pay $98 per month for her insurance, but it was cancelled against her will. Her new health insurance plan will now cost her $238 per month. She doesn't qualify for any subsidies or financial assistance because she and her husband earn a total of $80,000 per year. She is about to have a baby and the extra cost from the health insurance will put a strain on her family's budget. So she must pay the extra money for her new "Obamacare" plan or she must pay a fine to the IRS. She has no way of getting out of it.

    The best quote in the article:

    Pam Kehaly, president of Anthem Blue Cross in California, said she received a recent letter from a young woman complaining about a 50% rate hike related to the healthcare law.

    "She said, 'I was all for Obamacare until I found out I was paying for it,'" Kehaly said.
    Most Obama supporters thought Obamacare was free insurance. Well, it's free for the very poor. But somebody has to pay for it, and as to be expected with Obama, the middle class will be paying for it.
    I used to be like that, but not anymore. At least not on the first date. Third date, whole other story..."

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Terms of Service | Privacy Policy | About JustUsBoys.com | Site Map | RSS | Webmasters | Advertise | Link to JUB | Report A Bug on this Page

Visit our sister sites: Broke Straight Boys | CollegeDudes.com | CollegeBoyPhysicals.com | RocketTube
All models appearing on JustUsBoys.com were over 18 at the time of photography. The records for sexually explicit images required by U.S. 2257 are kept by the
individual producers of the images. The location of the records is available by clicking the Custodian of Records link at the bottom of each gallery page.
© 2012 JustUsBoys.com. The JustUsBoys.com name and logo are registered trademarks. Labeled with ICRA and RTA. Member of ASACP and The Free Speech Coalition.