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  1. #101

    Re: Obamacare and the Horror Stories

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    So because more people are buying insurance, the private sector gets less efficient?

    Please explain this.
    You hate Walmart because they are big, but you love the federal government because the are big. Kinda strange don't you think?

  2. #102
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post

    Just like you did with me ... however, since you're a moderator favorite, your's was not deleted.
    Trolling is a skill. Just because you don't have it, doesn't make anyone a mod favorite.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  3. #103

    Re: Obamacare and the Horror Stories

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Trolling is a skill. Just because you don't have it, doesn't make anyone a mod favorite.
    You mean he's actually wondering why he's not liked?

    OMFG! LOL!

  4. #104
    JUB Addict T-Rexx's Avatar
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    Re: Obamacare and the Horror Stories

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    With Obamacare people will pay more for health care. American people are being forced to spend money on health insurance they may or may not want and those that don't will be taxed -- that will increase the cost of healthcare in the USA.
    No, on average, people will pay less.

    The system we have now depends on private insurance being very expensive, so that it can cover the non-insured patients in the system. There will be a lot of people who will "lose" under Obamacare, in the sense that their personal costs will go up. This will mostly be poor and lower middle class people, who do not currently have any insurance. But, on average, most people who have healthcare now will pay less. Rich people will pay a lot less, since they will be subsidizing the care of fewer patients.

    Obamacare accomplishes with healthcare expenses exactly what the GWB administration was trying to accomplish with taxes - shift the burden for costs proportionately more onto the poor and middle class. Obamacare was designed by the Heritage Foundation with this very goal in mind. It should be a tea party Republican's dream healthcare plan. Except, of course, for the fact that a black man got it passed.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    A solution would be to create an environment that cause costs to go down -- competition always works -- people should be allowed to buy insurance where they can get the best deal.
    You've just described Obamare perfectly. An "environment" that causes healthcare costs to go down by allowing people to buy whatever private insurance they consider the best deal.

    I take it, then, that you are now a fan of Obamacare.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Obamacare will be bigger than Walmart and not nearly as efficient.
    Of course it will be bigger than Walmart. Whether or not is as "efficient" remains to be seen (Walmart is not the model of efficiency you seem to imagine). But it will certainly be more efficient than the model of inefficiency which is our current healthcare system. That is, in fact, how Obamacare achieves its modest cost savings - through greater efficiency in the system.
    Last edited by T-Rexx; October 24th, 2013 at 11:49 AM.

  5. #105
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    Re: Obamacare and the Horror Stories

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Just like you did with me ... however, since you're a moderator favorite, your's was not deleted.
    Hardly a moderator favourite, I am sure. They spank me as hard as anyone else when I cross the line. So put the goblet of wormwood down.

  6. #106
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Obamacare and the Horror Stories

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    With Obamacare people will pay more for health care. American people are being forced to spend money on health insurance they may or may not want and those that don't will be taxed -- that will increase the cost of healthcare in the USA.

    A solution would be to create an environment that cause costs to go down -- competition always works -- people should be allowed to buy insurance where they can get the best deal. Creating a new government monster in DC will not solve health care problems. Remember how you guys hate Walmart ... Obamacare will be bigger than Walmart and not nearly as efficient.

    - - - Updated - - -



    [Text: Removed]
    So your position on healthcare is that it is not viable as a product on the capitalistic market. You just said that the law forces more people to get health insurance and that will raise cost. However, typically more customers in a market place where demand is not limited equals lower cost.

    So Jack you are against capitalism?

    Once again you failed to identify a SINGLE SOURCE to show that the ACA will cause higher premiuns and actual looks at the exhanges have resulted in reduced cost for everyone who has insurance. Obviously those having to get insurance that did not have it will have an increase in cost but that simply means WE will not pay for their health care via the emergency room. Someone always pays.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  7. #107
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    Re: Obamacare and the Horror Stories

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Trolling is a skill. Just because you don't have it, doesn't make anyone a mod favorite.
    Actually for a newb it is sometimes hard to find the judgement balance that they look for here. But after several years it is inexcusable.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  8. #108
    The Boy Next Door LuvFindsAndyHardy's Avatar
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    Re: Obamacare and the Horror Stories

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    I'm was thinking you did not read the original post.
    Oh, is that what you'm were thinking?

  9. #109

    Re: Obamacare and the Horror Stories


  10. #110

    Re: Obamacare and the Horror Stories

    Only 6 people 'signed up' for the PPACA the first day.

    39,000 people are needed every day to meet the $$$ requirements.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Only 6 people 'signed up' for the PPACA the first day.

    39,000 people are needed every day to meet the $$$ requirements.
    Wow. You're at almost 7000 posts.
    Truly amazing the amount of nonsense you can find on here.
    Blah blah blah, something enigmatic sounding...

  12. #112

    Re: Obamacare and the Horror Stories

    ^^

    Thank you.

  13. #113
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Obamacare and the Horror Stories

    From the big grown up Governor of Kentucky...

    "We're signing up people at roughly a thousand a day. It's a great rate and a great success so far," he said on CNN's "New Day." [...]
    Asked about Republican Sens. Mitch McConnell and Rand Paul, Kentucky's two senators and staunch opponents of Obamacare, the governor said critics of the law "are not paying attention to the facts" and they "weave a web of misinformation."

    His piece of advice?

    "Take a deep breath. You know, this system is going to work. The only thing that really isn't working right now on the federal level is the website," he told CNN's Chris Cuomo. "I'll guarantee you that whether it's a week from now, a month from now, two months from now, they'll get it up and they'll get it working. People will be signing up."
    Hmmmmmmmmmm...... if one state is capable of signing up 1000 a day..... and, and, and, there are fifty states.....

    What is sad is Jack you will never return to this thread to post that the numbers are being met with a vengeance, you know once the website is fixed.... betcha a dollar you are off to some other misinformed cry fest.

    What is truly sad, this is law of america and it helps Americans and republican are on record wishing, hoping and praying it fails. They havent changed since 2001, they want America to fail. Perhaps they are talibangelicals.... I mean Bush was in bed with the Bin Laden family... maybe the whole party is for the destruction of capitalistic democracy. They say judge a man by his actions not his words, by that measure it is true that republicans want to destroy our way of life.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  14. #114

    Re: Obamacare and the Horror Stories

    Why doesn't the Administration tell us how many are signing up?

    I'm all for affordable insurance however my understanding is that the quote you receive on the healthcare.gov site only reflect 27yo and 50 yo rates. The quotes are not accurate.

  15. #115
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Obamacare and the Horror Stories

    Whatever.... I will be glad to tell you what I am paying come January 2014.

    BTW if they did average ages there are five selections to choose from so 27 and 50 does not jive. So then your, you heard it source?
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  16. #116
    Virtus in medio stat JUB Admin opinterph's Avatar
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    Re: Obamacare and the Horror Stories

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    … my understanding is that the quote you receive on the healthcare.gov site only reflect 27yo and 50 yo rates. The quotes are not accurate.
    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    Whatever.... you heard it source?
    You can use the website to get a rough estimate of your premium, without creating an account. If you want an actual premium amount, you must set up an account within the Marketplace application.


    HealthCare.gov

    Health plan information for individuals and families

    The table below lists all health plans available in states where the federal government is operating the Marketplace. This tool allows you to survey plans and prices outside the Marketplace application …

    The table below shows premiums for the following rating scenarios:

    • Adult individual = age 27
    • Adult individual = age 50
    • Family = 2 adults age 30, 2 children
    • Family single parent = 1 adult age 30, 2 children
    • Couple = 2 adults age 40, no children
    • Child = 1 child any age


    … These examples are offered for comparison purposes only. When an individual provides household and income information on the Marketplace application, the applicant’s specific age, household makeup, and smoking status will be used to determine premium costs.

  17. #117
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Obamacare and the Horror Stories

    I stand corrected. I still doubt it will be significantly different once I sign my mom up in a few days when i go home for her birthday and Thanksgiving. I stand by my theory that Jack will refuse to come back and admit the numbers are out performing requirements once the system is properly running for the recalcitrant states.
    Thanks for the link Opi...
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  18. #118

    Re: Obamacare and the Horror Stories

    ^^

    I'm sure the numbers signing up will go up. People have to get insurance or pay a tax.

    However, I still find it amazing the arrogance of starting a program when they knew the web site wouldn't work and then the American people learning that the President had lied about keeping your insurance and doctor. The Administration expected the MSM to protect them as they have throughout the last 6 years -- and some have.

    Incredible.

  19. #119

    Re: Obamacare and the Horror Stories

    'The Mess' gets bigger and more complicated.

    Small companies enrollment delayed by one year.

    The Obama administration today announced a one year delay of online enrollment for small businesses looking to purchase health coverage through federal Obamacare exchanges, another high-profile setback for HealthCare.gov.
    It’s the second delay for online small business enrollment, which the administration had said would begin this month.


    Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/1...#ixzz2lsUZOtvj

  20. #120
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    Re: Obamacare and the Horror Stories

    This is what happens when you try to change everything all at once.

    Oh -- and when you hire someone who's already failed at government contracts previously.....

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  21. #121

    Re: Obamacare and the Horror Stories

    ^^^

    Maybe a lesson about a new immigration policy should be learned here. You can't change everything at one time -- things have to 'evolve'.

  22. #122

    Re: Obamacare and the Horror Stories

    Craziness continues at HHS.

    New 'rules' release by Kitty Kat.

    U.S. Department of Health & Human Services News Division [Phone Number: Removed] [Email Address: Removed] www.hhs.gov/news
    EMBARGOED FOR RELEASE 4:15 p.m. EST Thursday, December 12, 2013

    Administration takes steps to ensure Americans signing up through the Marketplace have coverage and access to the care they need on January 1

    Today, the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) announced additional steps to help ensure consumers who are seeking health insurance through the Health Insurance Marketplace smoothly transition to coverage that best fits their needs. We will continue to look for additional steps we can take to make this process easier for consumers. The steps taken today include:

    1. Requiring insurers to accept payment through December 31 for coverage that will begin January 1, and urging issuers to give consumers additional time to pay their first month’s premium and still have coverage beginning January 1, 2014.

    2. Giving people enrolled in the federal Pre-existing Condition Insurance Plan (PCIP) the chance to extend their coverage through January 31, 2014 if they haven’t already selected a new plan. PCIP is a transitional bridge program that provides people with health conditions who could otherwise be shut out of the insurance market or charged more because of their pre-existing condition quality, affordable health insurance until options become available in the Marketplaces. The additional month gives this vulnerable population additional time to enroll in a plan and ensure continuity of coverage.

    3. Formalizing the previously announced decision giving individuals until December 23, instead of December 15, to sign up for health insurance coverage in the Marketplaces that would begin January 1.

    4. Strongly encouraging insurers to treat out-of-network providers as in-network to ensure continuity of care for acute episodes or if the provider was listed in their plan’s provider directory as of the date of an enrollee’s enrollment.

    5. Strongly encouraging insurers to refill prescriptions covered under previous plans during January. “We are providing additional flexibility to consumers across the country to ensure they have access to coverage options that begin on January 1, 2014,” said
    Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen

    Source Link to Full Version of Press Release: http://www.hhs.gov/news/press/2013pr...20131212a.html

    Can it become a bigger mess ... the sad thing is that it will. They have no idea what they are doing.
    Last edited by opinterph; December 12th, 2013 at 06:48 PM. Reason: removed phone number and email address; added quote tags; added source link; Refer to CE&P Posting Guidelines

  23. #123
    Cold November Rain Alnitak's Avatar
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    Re: Obamacare and the Horror Stories

    The problems with the roll out are red meat for the conservative opposition, but they are temporary growing pains that will soon look like outdated criticisms once people have figured out what to do and the numbers of newly insured greatly outnumber those whom have lost their substandard care. There is no question that healthcare standards have thrown some people for a loop. I'm sure building standards do the same for builders, but usually there are grandfather clauses. There probably should have been this time. It is also unfortunate that the administration waited so long to support education campaigns.
    Last edited by Alnitak; December 12th, 2013 at 05:10 PM.

  24. #124

    Re: Obamacare and the Horror Stories

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    The problems with the roll out are red meat for the conservative opposition, but they are temporary growing pains that will soon look like outdated criticisms once people have figured out what to do and the numbers of newly insured greatly outnumber those whom have lost their substandard care.
    You don't understand. The entire plan is that healthy people will be forced to buy insurance in and to pay excessive premiums in order to give coverage to those with preexisting illnesses. Those people are never going to be happy.
    That is only the beginning of the problem. Most of the people who have signed up to date are for Medicaid, the free part.
    Meanwhile federal regulations have forced the termination of millions of policies, but new policies are blocked by the computer glitch.
    Most Americans do not want Obamacare and they may end up with nothing.

  25. #125
    Cold November Rain Alnitak's Avatar
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    Re: Obamacare and the Horror Stories

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    You don't understand. The entire plan is that healthy people will be forced to buy insurance in and to pay excessive premiums in order to give coverage to those with preexisting illnesses. Those people are never going to be happy.
    That is only the beginning of the problem. Most of the people who have signed up to date are for Medicaid, the free part.
    Meanwhile federal regulations have forced the termination of millions of policies, but new policies are blocked by the computer glitch.
    Most Americans do not want Obamacare and they may end up with nothing.
    God makes us strong only for a while...

    Heart attacks happen to teen athletes.

    Cancer can happen at any age.

  26. #126
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post

    God makes us strong only for a while...

    Heart attacks happen to teen athletes.

    Cancer can happen at any age.
    You don't understand! Now people with preexisting conditions will not just be told to eat shit and die, AND THAT'S NOT OK!
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  27. #127
    Cold November Rain Alnitak's Avatar
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    Re: Obamacare and the Horror Stories

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    You don't understand! Now people with preexisting conditions will not just be told to eat shit and die, AND THAT'S NOT OK!
    Cardiac arrest is an emergency. You don't get health insurance in five minutes.

  28. #128

    Re: Obamacare and the Horror Stories

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    God makes us strong only for a while...

    Heart attacks happen to teen athletes.

    Cancer can happen at any age.
    If young healthy people were charged a premium based on the risks of their group, the premiums would be low. The purpose of Obama care is to charge them much higher premiums --and force them to buy it--to use the excess to give a gift of care to those with preexisting. But about half the people will get insurance subsidies borrowed from the Chinese etc until the Chinese wise up.

  29. #129
    Cold November Rain Alnitak's Avatar
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    Re: Obamacare and the Horror Stories

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    If young healthy people were charged a premium based on the risks of their group, the premiums would be low. The purpose of Obama care is to charge them much higher premiums --and force them to buy it--to use the excess to give a gift of care to those with preexisting. But about half the people will get insurance subsidies borrowed from the Chinese etc until the Chinese wise up.
    I do believe you are making arguments for single payer care.

  30. #130

    Re: Obamacare and the Horror Stories

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    I do believe you are making arguments for single payer care.
    Borrowing the entire amount in addition to our existing trillion dollar a year deeper into debt?

  31. #131
    Cold November Rain Alnitak's Avatar
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    Re: Obamacare and the Horror Stories

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Borrowing the entire amount in addition to our existing trillion dollar a year deeper into debt?
    Obviously returning to the tax rates we had in the prosperous 1950s would be necessary. It already is.

    By the way, China owns less than 8% of US debt. Foreign countries as a whole don't even own a majority of it. Two thirds are owned by Americans.

    Last edited by Alnitak; December 12th, 2013 at 06:37 PM.

  32. #132

    Re: Obamacare and the Horror Stories

    Obamacare is a mess and no one is in charge.

  33. #133
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    Re: Obamacare and the Horror Stories

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    If young healthy people were charged a premium based on the risks of their group, the premiums would be low.
    I'm not clear: Is there only *ONE RISK POOL* for all people of all ages?

    I always thought there should be risk pools by age group, including everybody who is alive and chooses to buy insurance. Somebody 36 years old should not be paying the same insurance rates as somebody 63 years old.

    Somebody living independently at 19, having to pay the same insurance as somebody who's three weeks away from Medicare, is not going to encourage young (and, therefore, usually healthy) people to sign up.
    BOSS: I'm sorry, but I'll have to lay you and Jack off.
    SUE: Can you just jack off? I feel like shit today.

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  34. #134

    Re: Obamacare and the Horror Stories

    "Insurance" for someone already sick is not really insurance, it is more like charity. Sick people cannot pay a premium commensurate with the risk, because it would have to be as high as the expense of the care. The entire purpose of forcing people to buy obama care policies is to generate extra revenue for the insurance companies from which they can "insure" the sick. The extra revenue must come from from charging healthy people inflated premiums disproportionate to the their risk.
    Of course, many of the healthy people cannot pay such high premiums, so the government will provide subsidies, ostensibly by taxing people, who presumably are already paying for their own insurance. We have to assume that the half or more of the country which pays no income tax will also be deemed to be entitled to the subsidy, while the half that pays income tax will by expected to pay for their own insurance, (at the inflated premiums to pay for preexisting ), plus, by taxes, pick up the subsides for the other half that gets the free ride.
    Actually, of course the government plans to borrow the amount of the subsidies, in addition to our already trillion a year borrowing--until the Chinese spring the trap, say "no more", and the entire house of cards collapses.
    Last edited by Benvolio; December 13th, 2013 at 05:43 AM.

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