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  1. #1
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    Democracy has been suspended by the Tea Party Republicans!


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    Re: Democracy has been suspended by the Tea Party Republicans!

    That chairman said "the chair will not give advice ..."

    Well he should stood down then.


    NEVER LISTEN TO A ONE SIDED STORY AND JUDGE.

  3. #3

    Re: Democracy has been suspended by the Tea Party Republicans!

    Ask Harry 'Magic Underwear' Reid the same question.

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    Re: Democracy has been suspended by the Tea Party Republicans!

    Harry Reid is Senator and they do not have sway in how the People's House of Representatives operates. Jeesh if you are going to discuss these things Jack you ought to elevate the conversation above a second grade civics level.


    This is exactly how the republicans have been operating for the last five years. They do a million 'procedural' items to appear to work so they can stall and prevent our democracy from succeeding.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
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    Re: Democracy has been suspended by the Tea Party Republicans!

    Quote Originally Posted by Love me 2 View Post
    It comes from having people in Congress who think they really are "God's Own Party", so they don't have to listen to anyone but themselves, even though they represent only a minority of the people.


    The way to deal with this, BTW, if the Democrats regain control of the House next year, is to pursue a constitutional amendment to change the makeup of the House, in two ways:

    1. hand over the drawing of district boundaries to mathematicians, and
    2. make the election of Congressmen proportional by party vote within state delegations.

    The Tea Party could then run its own ticket, as could the Greens, the Reform, the Constitution, the Libertarian, and all the rest.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  6. #6

    Re: Democracy has been suspended by the Tea Party Republicans!

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    Harry Reid is Senator and they do not have sway in how the People's House of Representatives operates. Jeesh if you are going to discuss these things Jack you ought to elevate the conversation above a second grade civics level.


    This is exactly how the republicans have been operating for the last five years. They do a million 'procedural' items to appear to work so they can stall and prevent our democracy from succeeding.
    The point that you glossed over JH was that Harry Reid decides if what votes taken in the Senate -- the same as Boehner does in the House.

    Saying that Boehner is the devil when Reid does the same thing is being hypocritical.

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    Re: Democracy has been suspended by the Tea Party Republicans!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    The point that you glossed over JH was that Harry Reid decides if what votes taken in the Senate -- the same as Boehner does in the House.

    Saying that Boehner is the devil when Reid does the same thing is being hypocritical.
    Not when they change the rules ahead of this self created crisis because they knew at the outset that people would end round there traitorous asses. They did this at the beginning of October.... whereas the senate rules have been the senate rules for longer than you cared about politics and with little, very little change. THAT is changing the rules to give your party the edge ina fight you KNOW you will lose. That is ignorant and traitorous.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
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    Re: Democracy has been suspended by the Tea Party Republicans!

    Gerrymandering, primaries, weak leadership, crazy fringe hijacking.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Ask Harry 'Magic Underwear' Reid the same question.
    Reid was elected by a popular majority.

    The House was not.
    Last edited by Alnitak; October 14th, 2013 at 07:18 AM.

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    Re: Democracy has been suspended by the Tea Party Republicans!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Saying that Boehner is the devil when Reid does the same thing is being hypocritical.
    Provide a cite showing that Reid has gotten a rule passed in the Senate that says only he can bring a bill to the floor.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  10. #10

    Re: Democracy has been suspended by the Tea Party Republicans!

    The speaker of the house and the majority leader have always had the luxury of what bills to bring up before the House.

    I'm not really sure what the bill the OP refers to means. Seems it was unnecessary. However it did pass and the vote was bipartisan.

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    Re: Democracy has been suspended by the Tea Party Republicans!

    Sneaky, sneaky.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/1...n_4095129.html
    "I make my motion, Mr. Speaker," said Van Hollen. "I renew my motion that under the regular standing rules of the House... that the house take up the Senate amendments and open the government now."

    "Under section 2 of H.R. 368, that motion may be offered only by the majority leader or his designee," Chaffetz said.

    "Mr. Speaker, why were the rules rigged to keep the government shut down?" Van Hollen asked.

    "The gentleman will suspend," Chaffetz interjected.

    "Democracy has been suspended, Mr. Speaker."


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    Re: Democracy has been suspended by the Tea Party Republicans!

    This is no longer the party of Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt and Dwight Eisenhower. There is no leadership of the GOP, but factions of Rush, Limbaugh, Pat Robertson, Grover Norquist, the NRA, Fox News, Sarah Palin, the Koch boys and Tea Baggers.

  13. #13

    Re: Democracy has been suspended by the Tea Party Republicans!

    Quote Originally Posted by bike10 View Post
    This is no longer the party of Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt and Dwight Eisenhower. There is no leadership of the GOP, but factions of Rush, Limbaugh, Pat Robertson, Grover Norquist, the NRA, Fox News, Sarah Palin, the Koch boys and Tea Baggers.
    If you were batshit crazy, hated everything and was filled with racist ideas, greed, fear and paranoia wouldn't you be a republican too?

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    Re: Democracy has been suspended by the Tea Party Republicans!

    Quote Originally Posted by bike10 View Post
    This is no longer the party of Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt and Dwight Eisenhower. There is no leadership of the GOP, but factions of Rush, Limbaugh, Pat Robertson, Grover Norquist, the NRA, Fox News, Sarah Palin, the Koch boys and Tea Baggers.
    They remind me of a faction late in the Roman Republic, a batch of Senators who could see nothing except using their power for their own benefit.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Democracy has been suspended by the Tea Party Republicans!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    The speaker of the house and the majority leader have always had the luxury of what bills to bring up before the House.

    I'm not really sure what the bill the OP refers to means. Seems it was unnecessary. However it did pass and the vote was bipartisan.
    Right... sure looks really bi partisan to me.....

    http://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/113-2013/h505

    Here let me help you out Jack..... the Affordable Care Act passed the house as a bipartisan bill. In fact it had ZERO nay votes.

    http://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/111-2009/h768
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
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    Re: Democracy has been suspended by the Tea Party Republicans!

    This was the course the Republican Party was going on anyway. Obama getting elected just sped things up

  17. #17

    Re: Democracy has been suspended by the Tea Party Republicans!

    No one sees the danger of creating a health care system dependent upon borrowing the entirety of the government subsidy?

  18. #18
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    Re: Democracy has been suspended by the Tea Party Republicans!

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    No one sees the danger of creating a health care system dependent upon borrowing the entirety of the government subsidy?
    Republicans did it with Medicare drug coverage.

  19. #19

    Re: Democracy has been suspended by the Tea Party Republicans!

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    Republicans did it with Medicare drug coverage.
    So you conclude that we can borrow the entire health care system? Tit for tat only goes so far.

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    Re: Democracy has been suspended by the Tea Party Republicans!

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    So you conclude that we can borrow the entire health care system? Tit for tat only goes so far.
    I'm questioning why you are bringing this up because a Democrat has proposed it.

  21. #21

    Re: Democracy has been suspended by the Tea Party Republicans!

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    I'm questioning why you are bringing this up because a Democrat has proposed it.
    Try to move beyond ad hominem arguments. Think about the issue. The plan does not become viable just because Republicans are bad people.

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    Re: Democracy has been suspended by the Tea Party Republicans!

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Try to move beyond ad hominem arguments. Think about the issue. The plan does not become viable just because Republicans are bad people.
    No point if the argument is being brought up in bad faith and one's opinion realigns every time his ideology finds itself on the opposite side of it.

  23. #23

    Re: Democracy has been suspended by the Tea Party Republicans!

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    No point if the argument is being brought up in bad faith and one's opinion realigns every time his ideology finds itself on the opposite side of it.
    So your failure ever to agree with Republicans is bad faith? I see. Struggle to think about the issues aside from your partisanship.
    Last edited by Benvolio; October 15th, 2013 at 07:48 AM.

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    Re: Democracy has been suspended by the Tea Party Republicans!

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    No one sees the danger of creating a health care system dependent upon borrowing the entirety of the government subsidy?
    What we see is the danger of a healthcare system that is consuming 18% of GDP, and rising.

    That is not sustainable.

    What Republicans are advocating is more expensive healthcare, treatment of fewer Americans who suffer from disease, and damage to the American economy. All because they do not want a man they hate to be credited with doing good.

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    Re: Democracy has been suspended by the Tea Party Republicans!

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    So your failure ever to agree with Republicans is bad faith? I see. Struggle to think about the issues aside from your partisanship.
    There isn't a single issue that Republicans have a clear position on to agree with in the first place.

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    Re: Democracy has been suspended by the Tea Party Republicans!

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    No one sees the danger of creating a health care system dependent upon borrowing the entirety of the government subsidy?
    We wouldn't have to borrow for anything if the Republicans didn't continually insist on policy that shunts forty percent of the country's wealth to one percent of the population.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  27. #27

    Re: Democracy has been suspended by the Tea Party Republicans!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    We wouldn't have to borrow for anything if the Republicans didn't continually insist on policy that shunts forty percent of the country's wealth to one percent of the population.
    So, how much total do you think we can squeeze out of that top 1 %? Source?I don't think you can get a trillion, and even that would not solve the problem. And, no, Republicans do not shunt income to anyone except the welfare class. Failing to confiscate cannot be considered shunting.

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    Re: Democracy has been suspended by the Tea Party Republicans!

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    So your failure ever to agree with Republicans is bad faith? I see. Struggle to think about the issues aside from your partisanship.
    No. The only difference between Democrats and Republicans on the topic of deficit spending is that Democrats do less of it, raise taxes to pay for it, and work on reducing the deficit growth.

    Republicans just put it on a credit card and do it off the budget so they can blame it on the next administration, particularly if it's a Democratic one. Kinda like right now.

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    Re: Democracy has been suspended by the Tea Party Republicans!

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    So, how much total do you think we can squeeze out of that top 1 %? Source?I don't think you can get a trillion, and even that would not solve the problem. And, no, Republicans do not shunt income to anyone except the welfare class. Failing to confiscate cannot be considered shunting.
    Under Republican policy, after-tax wealth of the upper level increases faster than for anyone lower, and the after-tax wealth of the bottom third tends to decrease. That constitutes shunting the wealth upward.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  30. #30
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    Re: Democracy has been suspended by the Tea Party Republicans!

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    So, how much total do you think we can squeeze out of that top 1 %? Source?I don't think you can get a trillion, and even that would not solve the problem. And, no, Republicans do not shunt income to anyone except the welfare class. Failing to confiscate cannot be considered shunting.
    You could just confiscate half of all assets (not income tax on new earnings, I mean half of their total assets in a one-time forfeiture) of the top 1% and that group of 1% will still be almost three time richer than the 240 million Americans with the least amount of money.


    Warren Buffett with 30 billion is still very rich compared to Warren Buffet with 60 billion.

    If you did take half of all assets of the top 1%, you would get about 10.8 trillion dollars. That would basically pay off the US national debt held by the public.


    I did the math based on figures here:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPKKQnijnsM

    (with thanks to jayhawk for reposting this the other day.)
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

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    Re: Democracy has been suspended by the Tea Party Republicans!

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    You could just confiscate half of all assets (not income tax on new earnings, I mean half of their total assets in a one-time forfeiture) of the top 1% and that group of 1% will still be almost three time richer than the 240 million Americans with the least amount of money.


    Warren Buffett with 30 billion is still very rich compared to Warren Buffet with 60 billion.

    If you did take half of all assets of the top 1%, you would get about 10.8 trillion dollars. That would basically pay off the US national debt held by the public.


    I did the math based on figures here:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPKKQnijnsM

    (with thanks to jayhawk for reposting this the other day.)
    I've done the math as well and posted it. If we took two-thirds, it would just about pay off all the debt, and few of the 1% would actually notice the difference in their personal lives.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Democracy has been suspended by the Tea Party Republicans!

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    You could just confiscate half of all assets (not income tax on new earnings, I mean half of their total assets in a one-time forfeiture) of the top 1% and that group of 1% will still be almost three time richer than the 240 million Americans with the least amount of money.


    Warren Buffett with 30 billion is still very rich compared to Warren Buffet with 60 billion.

    If you did take half of all assets of the top 1%, you would get about 10.8 trillion dollars. That would basically pay off the US national debt held by the public.


    I did the math based on figures here:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPKKQnijnsM

    (with thanks to jayhawk for reposting this the other day.)
    I think, clearly, you missed the memo about how the real problem in the U.S. is too much redistribution of wealth to the poor. It's simply killing wealth and capitalism.

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    Re: Democracy has been suspended by the Tea Party Republicans!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    I've done the math as well and posted it. If we took two-thirds, it would just about pay off all the debt, and few of the 1% would actually notice the difference in their personal lives.
    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    I think, clearly, you missed the memo about how the real problem in the U.S. is too much redistribution of wealth to the poor. It's simply killing wealth and capitalism.
    Okay here is the problem though.

    Past a certain point, that wealth really is a number. Warren Buffett is famously frugal. But lets take Bill Gates who apparently has made a rather palatial residence for himself. The thing is, building it didn't even dent the amount of his fortune. There are only a handful of comparable properties on the planet, and the cost his house is only a rounding error in the overall picture of his finances. Even if he ate caviar pies covered in gold leaf from now until the day he died, he could not deplete his fortune. Even if he filled his closets with loafers made from albino endangered african rhino, he could not become poor.

    First of all, I'll point out that we're not talking about redistributing one cent of that wealth to the poor. We're talking about redistributing it to the bondholders of government debt.

    But more to the point, what is the meaning of that number on the page, once it exceeds every fantasy of personal consumption? I suspect that once a person gets into the billions, they are acting as a steward of that money for the public good. The fact that they've accumulated so much demonstrates them to be an effective and efficient administrator of assets and economic activity. Those billions of assets are not Cezannes on the walls and luxury jets and orgies - that is pocket change. Those billions are the photocopiers, boardrooms, computers, telephones, bricks and mortar, factories, laboratories, retail storefronts, of the places you and I go in to do our jobs!

    What does it mean to seize that and sell it off to pay the national debt?
    Last edited by bankside; October 16th, 2013 at 05:38 AM.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

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    Re: Democracy has been suspended by the Tea Party Republicans!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post


    The way to deal with this, BTW, if the Democrats regain control of the House next year, is to pursue a constitutional amendment to change the makeup of the House, in two ways:

    1. hand over the drawing of district boundaries to mathematicians, and
    2. make the election of Congressmen proportional by party vote within state delegations.

    The Tea Party could then run its own ticket, as could the Greens, the Reform, the Constitution, the Libertarian, and all the rest.
    You should probably add some sort of mechanism to dissolve congress and start over when things become as crazy as they are now. Isn't that what pretty much every other democracy does, too?

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    Re: Democracy has been suspended by the Tea Party Republicans!

    Historically the danger to extreme wealth was the ability to fund private armies, e.g. Roger Mortimer.

    Today it is the ability to manipulate politics, e.g. the Koch Brothers.

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    Re: Democracy has been suspended by the Tea Party Republicans!

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    Okay here is the problem though.

    Past a certain point, that wealth really is a number. Warren Buffett is famously frugal. But lets take Bill Gates who apparently has made a rather palatial residence for himself. The thing is, building it didn't even dent the amount of his fortune. There are only a handful of comparable properties on the planet, and the cost his house is only a rounding error in the overall picture of his finances. Even if he ate caviar pies covered in gold leaf from now until the day he died, he could not deplete his fortune. Even if he filled his closets with loafers made from albino endangered african rhino, he could not become poor.

    First of all, I'll point out that we're not talking about redistributing one cent of that wealth to the poor. We're talking about redistributing it to the bondholders of government debt.

    But more to the point, what is the meaning of that number on the page, once it exceeds every fantasy of personal consumption? I suspect that once a person gets into the billions, they are acting as a steward of that money for the public good. The fact that they've accumulated so much demonstrates them to be an effective and efficient administrator of assets and economic activity. Those billions of assets are not Cezannes on the walls and luxury jets and orgies - that is pocket change. Those billions are the photocopiers, boardrooms, computers, telephones, bricks and mortar, factories, laboratories, retail storefronts, of the places you and I go in to do our jobs!

    What does it mean to seize that and sell it off to pay the national debt?
    I completely agree with you that there's a, relatively-speaking, incredibly low number when we're talking about the actual amount of money you need to live completely comfortably and take care of all your needs (and even all of your wants) for a lifetime. It's certain a small fraction of what the top 1% have in terms of assets.

    But I think that past that point it's no longer about being able to afford the lifestyle or things that they want in life, or worrying about taking care of themselves or even their children. It's about power and influence.

    With 6 million you can control your life and possibly even pay for your kid's for life. With 60 billion you can sway what happens nationally or internationally depending on what you're doing with that clout.

  37. #37
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    Re: Democracy has been suspended by the Tea Party Republicans!

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    Okay here is the problem though.

    Past a certain point, that wealth really is a number. Warren Buffett is famously frugal. But lets take Bill Gates who apparently has made a rather palatial residence for himself. The thing is, building it didn't even dent the amount of his fortune. There are only a handful of comparable properties on the planet, and the cost his house is only a rounding error in the overall picture of his finances. Even if he ate caviar pies covered in gold leaf from now until the day he died, he could not deplete his fortune. Even if he filled his closets with loafers made from albino endangered african rhino, he could not become poor.

    First of all, I'll point out that we're not talking about redistributing one cent of that wealth to the poor. We're talking about redistributing it to the bondholders of government debt.

    But more to the point, what is the meaning of that number on the page, once it exceeds every fantasy of personal consumption? I suspect that once a person gets into the billions, they are acting as a steward of that money for the public good. The fact that they've accumulated so much demonstrates them to be an effective and efficient administrator of assets and economic activity. Those billions of assets are not Cezannes on the walls and luxury jets and orgies - that is pocket change. Those billions are the photocopiers, boardrooms, computers, telephones, bricks and mortar, factories, laboratories, retail storefronts, of the places you and I go in to do our jobs!

    What does it mean to seize that and sell it off to pay the national debt?
    No, those assets are pieces of paper that say they own portions of this or that company, or have X dollars sitting in a heap sucking up more dollars from the wealth stream. The material plant of all those companies and banks wouldn't be affected in the least. The actual problem with seizing that wealth is that it couldn't be immediately sold without depressing the value of many companies across the board, and that much of America would be bought up by foreigners when the stock was sold, resulting in a drain of income out of the country.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  38. #38
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    Re: Democracy has been suspended by the Tea Party Republicans!

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    Past a certain point, that wealth really is a number. Warren Buffett is famously frugal. But lets take Bill Gates who apparently has made a rather palatial residence for himself. The thing is, building it didn't even dent the amount of his fortune. There are only a handful of comparable properties on the planet, and the cost his house is only a rounding error in the overall picture of his finances. Even if he ate caviar pies covered in gold leaf from now until the day he died, he could not deplete his fortune. Even if he filled his closets with loafers made from albino endangered african rhino, he could not become poor.
    Bill Gates himself has said that wealthy people do not appreciate any difference in lifestyle for income beyond $100 million/year. After that, it's just numbers on paper.

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    Re: Democracy has been suspended by the Tea Party Republicans!

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    Bill Gates himself has said that wealthy people do not appreciate any difference in lifestyle for income beyond $100 million/year. After that, it's just numbers on paper.
    I heard him in an interview where he'd just "lost" something like eight billion overnight in a stock plunge, and the reporter asked if he felt poorer with only like twenty billion now. He said that after the first billion, you can't tell the difference anyway -- he was more concerned about his foundation, to which he'd given five billion or so earlier that year.

    Supposedly he once also said, answering a question about buying really, really expensive things, that the only thing he could think of that would be "really, really expensive" to him would be a nuclear-power aircraft carrier converted to a yacht....

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  40. #40
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    Re: Democracy has been suspended by the Tea Party Republicans!

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    Bill Gates himself has said that wealthy people do not appreciate any difference in lifestyle for income beyond $100 million/year. After that, it's just numbers on paper.
    That's entirely true but, ironically, because so much of what's on top of that is assets and wealth that isn't actually necessary to their day-to-day living, it almost seems like you run into MORE outrage at the thought of taxing it-- just look at the conservative view of estate tax, for example. It's seen more directly as "government confiscation" when you take some guy worth $300 million and propose a scenario where he has to sell off a business or some estates he never uses for taxes, even though it has not in any way harmed his lifestyle.

  41. #41

    Re: Democracy has been suspended by the Tea Party Republicans!

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    Bill Gates himself has said that wealthy people do not appreciate any difference in lifestyle for income beyond $100 million/year. After that, it's just numbers on paper.
    Neither Gates or Buffett give any extra tax money to the federal government. I'll go out on a limb and say that they hire a team of high-priced accountants and lawyers that try very hard to limit their tax liability.

    I'd be curious to learn if Buffett receives Social Security benefits .... I'll bet he does.

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    Re: Democracy has been suspended by the Tea Party Republicans!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Neither Gates or Buffett give any extra tax money to the federal government. I'll go out on a limb and say that they hire a team of high-priced accountants and lawyers that try very hard to limit their tax liability.

    I'd be curious to learn if Buffett receives Social Security benefits .... I'll bet he does.
    I don't tell my employer to withhold more for my Social Security benefits, but I would still support removing the SocSec cap. I don't really think of those two stances as being hypocritical. I don't overpay on property tax to support schools more either but I support better education funding, and would be willing to pay more for it. Saying anyone who supports these things should just individually give more is kinda myopic.

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    Re: Democracy has been suspended by the Tea Party Republicans!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Neither Gates or Buffett give any extra tax money to the federal government. I'll go out on a limb and say that they hire a team of high-priced accountants and lawyers that try very hard to limit their tax liability.

    I'd be curious to learn if Buffett receives Social Security benefits .... I'll bet he does.
    At least his right-wing detractors are consistent: they don't want government to help the poor or sick, and they won't do it either.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  44. #44
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    Re: Democracy has been suspended by the Tea Party Republicans!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    No, those assets are pieces of paper that say they own portions of this or that company, or have X dollars sitting in a heap sucking up more dollars from the wealth stream. The material plant of all those companies and banks wouldn't be affected in the least. The actual problem with seizing that wealth is that it couldn't be immediately sold without depressing the value of many companies across the board, and that much of America would be bought up by foreigners when the stock was sold, resulting in a drain of income out of the country.
    Well, I'm identifying another problem: that the current owners are competent at managing that wealth, and there is no reason to assume the new owners are equally competent. This is problematic if so many of our careers depend on that skillful oversight. So, taking the physical plant and giving it to someone else may not be a good bargain. The people who control those pieces of paper, also get to vote on the board as to how those assets are effectively used.

    Alternately, aren't rich capital owners also likely to hold bonds? So…seizing their assets through taxation... to pay them the bond owed?
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  45. #45
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    Re: Democracy has been suspended by the Tea Party Republicans!

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    Well, I'm identifying another problem: that the current owners are competent at managing that wealth, and there is no reason to assume the new owners are equally competent. This is problematic if so many of our careers depend on that skillful oversight. So, taking the physical plant and giving it to someone else may not be a good bargain. The people who control those pieces of paper, also get to vote on the board as to how those assets are effectively used.

    Alternately, aren't rich capital owners also likely to hold bonds? So…seizing their assets through taxation... to pay them the bond owed?
    The new owners will probably have the same financial advisors as the old ones.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  46. #46

    Re: Democracy has been suspended by the Tea Party Republicans!

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    I don't tell my employer to withhold more for my Social Security benefits, but I would still support removing the SocSec cap. I don't really think of those two stances as being hypocritical. I don't overpay on property tax to support schools more either but I support better education funding, and would be willing to pay more for it. Saying anyone who supports these things should just individually give more is kinda myopic.
    Both are totally hypocrites. If Buffett collect SS then he's a total slime ball.

  47. #47
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    Re: Democracy has been suspended by the Tea Party Republicans!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Both are totally hypocrites. If Buffett collect SS then he's a total slime ball.
    IIRC Buffet donates his SS check to a charity because the government won't take it back. And he continues to advocate lifting caps and instituting means testing.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  48. #48

    Re: Democracy has been suspended by the Tea Party Republicans!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    IIRC Buffet donates his SS check to a charity because the government won't take it back. And he continues to advocate lifting caps and instituting means testing.
    He could have refused to sign up. He's a slime ball.

    I advocate everyone to be healthy, wealthy, and wise.

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    Re: Democracy has been suspended by the Tea Party Republicans!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    He could have refused to sign up. He's a slime ball.

    I advocate everyone to be healthy, wealthy, and wise.
    How do you "refuse to sign up"?

    And what does your second line have to do with the first?

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  50. #50

    Re: Democracy has been suspended by the Tea Party Republicans!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Neither Gates or Buffett give any extra tax money to the federal government. I'll go out on a limb and say that they hire a team of high-priced accountants and lawyers that try very hard to limit their tax liability.

    I'd be curious to learn if Buffett receives Social Security benefits .... I'll bet he does.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Both are totally hypocrites. If Buffett collect SS then he's a total slime ball.

    It's really none of your business what Gates and Buffet do with their money.

    Since you're judging them like this, is it alright if we judge you like this too?

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