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  1. #1
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    If you're a Brit, don't be a twit!

    The United Kingdom Independence Party (UKIP) has had, since the last general election, some huge success. Whilst this is a great achievement for UKIP, it is very much worth remembering that it is far from a reflection of the party's great policies, rather that their core policy happens to be a populist one currently. UKIP's anti-European stance has gained support in the wake of mass unemployment. Brought to attention during the last expansion of the EU and a huge under-estimating of foreign workers flocking to Britain, particularly from Poland, adding competition for our jobs. Followed then by a crisis in the US which echoed around the globe, causing a recession and heralding the beginning of many businesses going under, and many others freezing pay-rises. UKIP have been able to capitalize on current affairs to associate high levels of unemployment, specifically to the first event, European immigration.
    As the nation begins to recover from one of the worst recessions in decades, the concerns of individuals are beginning to dissipate in terms of anti-European sentiment, and combined with the media attention upon some of UKIP's higher profile members as being far from savoury in their characters, is likely to turn the tide on UKIP's recent success. This is a good thing.
    There is however, an however. If the support which UKIP had won, helped create a hung parliament, giving no main party a majority to lead, and thus giving us our first coalition in yonks, what will happen at the next election? Will voters go back to voting as before? Can we expect a Conservative or Labour government?
    I want neither of these governments. Preferable to UKIP without a shadow of a doubt, they have their own issues that make them a poor choice for your vote.

    Having established that the mood of a nation can work in a particular party's favour, Labour have begun to bring to the limelight, the high cost of living. Labour suggests it will force a freeze on energy prices and the cost of petrol, for two years, if we vote for them at the next election. Are they taking us for fool's? or really, is it that they have no idea how to better a Conservative-Liberal Democrat approach to sorting out their fine mess from the last government they led?
    Forcing a freeze on energy costs is not going to solve a squeeze on the public's finances. It is simply a carrot covered in sugar, being waved in front of the electorate like we're made up of dumb mules. A sudden extra-large hike in energy costs could be waiting for us in the long term, should Labour do what it intended, or worse than that, utility companies could rasie prices before the next election even arrives, in order to compensate for the freeze in advance. Either way, its a pointless effort. It doesn't even help everybody out, since not everybody drives, and electricity prices are hardly near the top of the list of household expenses. If Labour wanted to really help, they'd be suggesting taking action on our most costly living expenses. They could force a rent reduction, or abolish the council tax or even cut the VAT on cigarettes as a small measure. But they have no intention of losing revenue themselves, oh no. Instead they want to make our energy bosses out to be the bad guys, imposing unfair prices, when the reality is that our energy prices are respectable in comparison to the vast majority of Europe, and that those people who struggle to pay, could afford to, if only government and landlord allocated expenditures were slashed to something fairer.
    When you are a council tenant, your rent goes to local government, and when combined with Income Tax, National Insurance and Council Tax, the average full time worker earning on or close to minimum wage, have to give up over half their gross wage to give to government in some form. This effectively creates a modern day slave attitude as you earn the smaller half of your salary, and the government gets the larger. Then deduct your government imposed compulsory TV licence, and your utility bills...

    ...its no wonder that work is not rewarding. Why go to work 5 days a week when you can stay at home without the responsibility and live on benefits?
    Where is the incentive Labour? Where are you going to make the substantive savings on living expenses that gives the poorest workers the financial reward they deserve (which they'll be spending at the shops and on services and boosting economic growth).

    Conservatives think they have the answer, but oh wait, no they don't. Just like the Labour government, they wouldn't want to sacrifice any of their own revenue either, oh no.
    Instead, they want to pull the wool over our eyes. They're going to make unemployment even more difficult in the hope that those who are the working poor, are suddenly going to feel different about their own financial difficulties. The 'oh well, it could be worse, i could be unemployed' rhetoric is expected to circulate our minds, and we forget all about the cost of living entirely. It seems that's the plan.
    A single person unemployed and living in a council flat will be expected to use what may be their only monetary income (jobseeker's allowance) to pay for a small part of the rent if they happen to have a spare room, and a small contribution to the council tax is to be paid also. And these are to be paid from an allowance that is regarded as the minimum amount a person should be expected to live on whilst unemployed, taking care of groceries and utility bills. So where is the fairness in taking more away from that benefit? Its not fair, its simply a means to cut the welfare budget, by targeting those who are using it. Wait, wait, did you just say that right? I thought the welfare budget was there for the very purpose of using it when needed to. Yes, but do the Tories care about that really?? NO, they don't. They don't have a problem being unfair at all actually. They gave us tuition fees so that a financial burden becomes attached to our progress within the education system. They want to make those considered 'workshy' to take unpaid job placements if they have been unemployed for more than two years, yes, unpaid working, sounds delightful right?, thus working for welfare instead of a salary like the rest of us, but i suppose you could say, since work aint rewarding as it is for the low paid, it won't be that much different!, and let's not forget that they're idea of voting on electoral reform was dictating what we were able to vote on, ruling proportional representation out of the ballot before we even had our say.

    So what does that leave us with? Liberal Democrats. Well, i'm a Liberal Democrat voter myself, so its easy for me. Not so easy for those who were let down by Nick Clegg who promised no to tuition fees. Perhaps he should have stuck to his promise and allowed Conservatives to form a minor government instead. On the upside, the tax threshold has increased, to everyone's advantage, easing the cost of living. A Lib Dem pledge also. They made a sacrifice for the good of the country. God forbid a Tory government in full control eh? I'd give Lib Dem's a second chance. Vote for them instead of UKIP, Labour or Conservatives. They are the party of fairness, they are liberals, the rest are authoritarians.
    Last edited by DreamTeam; October 13th, 2013 at 12:54 PM.

  2. #2
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    Re: If you're a Brit, don't be a twit!

    I'm sorry, but I'll be voting for the Workers Revolutionary Party. Always have, always will.

  3. #3
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    Re: If you're a Brit, don't be a twit!

    Did anyone else just read DreamTeam's thread and realize how utterly ignorant they are about British politics?

  4. #4
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    Re: If you're a Brit, don't be a twit!


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    Re: If you're a Brit, don't be a twit!

    Yeah, I think the Labour plan of freezing domestic fuel prices is a gimmick, and probably interference in what should be a free market. I can't see it going well, as these companies have duties also to its shareholders. The brave ecological step forward to decommission aging nuclear power plants too soon has brought on the very real worry of rising energy prices. They didn't factor in the speed at which new power plants could be built. I heard on the radio that there was a 3 year gap between the closure of the old powerstations and the opening of the new.

    The Tories have been marching towards the right in a effort to win back the voters who have gone to UKIP. Discriminatory laws are being hailed as being progressive to keep out the foreigners.

    The Lib Dems with few seats claim to be keeping the moral conscience by supporting measures that enable fairer taxation, but all the while in bed with the Tories who they once hated with as much gusto as they can muster. Nowadays, they've the ball and chain being dragged the route the tories are taking them, inglorious and often baffling to see how much xenophobic stuff and the sheer weight of intrusive government has been eminating from Snowden's disclosures. The LD used to advocate less government intrusion into our lives, but now they're in power they have been ineffectual on that front.

    My last vote went to them , and I don't think I can vote for them or the other two. decisions, decisions....


  6. #6
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    Re: If you're a Brit, don't be a twit!

    I will definitely be voting UKIP in next year's European elections, and since UKIP are the ONLY party that is going to give me a chance to vote my country out of this ever-growing unstoppable artificial superstate project, and since it's my number one priority as the single-most important issue at the next election, then therefore I have no choice but to vote UKIP at the general election too.

    And I will continue voting for them from now on, until I and the British people get a referendum where we can finally do what the ruling European bureautic ideological zelaots are preventing virtually every country in Europe from doing - giving their people the choice of saying NO.


  7. #7
    Virginia Is for Lovers Alnitak's Avatar
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    Re: If you're a Brit, don't be a twit!

    Quote Originally Posted by ChickenGuy View Post
    I will definitely be voting UKIP in next year's European elections, and since UKIP are the ONLY party that is going to give me a chance to vote my country out of this ever-growing unstoppable artificial superstate project, and since it's my number one priority as the single-most important issue at the next election, then therefore I have no choice but to vote UKIP at the general election too.

    And I will continue voting for them from now on, until I and the British people get a referendum where we can finally do what the ruling European bureautic ideological zelaots are preventing virtually every country in Europe from doing - giving their people the choice of saying NO.

    At least the British government has control over your currency.

  8. #8
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    Re: If you're a Brit, don't be a twit!

    Quote Originally Posted by star-warrior View Post
    Yeah, I think the Labour plan of freezing domestic fuel prices is a gimmick, and probably interference in what should be a free market. I can't see it going well, as these companies have duties also to its shareholders. The brave ecological step forward to decommission aging nuclear power plants too soon has brought on the very real worry of rising energy prices. They didn't factor in the speed at which new power plants could be built. I heard on the radio that there was a 3 year gap between the closure of the old powerstations and the opening of the new.

    The Tories have been marching towards the right in a effort to win back the voters who have gone to UKIP. Discriminatory laws are being hailed as being progressive to keep out the foreigners.

    The Lib Dems with few seats claim to be keeping the moral conscience by supporting measures that enable fairer taxation, but all the while in bed with the Tories who they once hated with as much gusto as they can muster. Nowadays, they've the ball and chain being dragged the route the tories are taking them, inglorious and often baffling to see how much xenophobic stuff and the sheer weight of intrusive government has been eminating from Snowden's disclosures. The LD used to advocate less government intrusion into our lives, but now they're in power they have been ineffectual on that front.

    My last vote went to them , and I don't think I can vote for them or the other two. decisions, decisions....
    I don't like the Lib Dem's being in bed with Tories either. I'm hazarding a guess that if the Lib Dem's play ball to keep the coalition working, despite some of the Tory led policies, it will give the Lib Dem's some levy in arguing at the next political debates, that they have helped get the country back on its feet, and using Lib Dem policies such as the tax threshold increase to show how they have helped everyone in work get money back in their pocket. Another hung parliament wouldn't be a bad thing either, as i'm sure Labour may want to jump on the bandwagon this time, since it would at least remove Tories from power. I kind of suspect Labour were hoping the coalition would fail and they'd be able to sweep to victory in the wake of the mess.

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    Re: If you're a Brit, don't be a twit!

    Quote Originally Posted by ChickenGuy View Post
    I will definitely be voting UKIP in next year's European elections, and since UKIP are the ONLY party that is going to give me a chance to vote my country out of this ever-growing unstoppable artificial superstate project, and since it's my number one priority as the single-most important issue at the next election, then therefore I have no choice but to vote UKIP at the general election too.

    And I will continue voting for them from now on, until I and the British people get a referendum where we can finally do what the ruling European bureautic ideological zelaots are preventing virtually every country in Europe from doing - giving their people the choice of saying NO.

    Yes, yes, let's have a vote. No problem. Polls suggest that the vote would be for YES, to stay in the EU.

  10. #10
    JUB Addict cgymike's Avatar
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    Re: If you're a Brit, don't be a twit!

    Does that mean the euro will finally be adopted?

    No mention of Scottish Independence of course or spinning off Ulster aka "the province"

    ahha...
    Last edited by cgymike; October 14th, 2013 at 02:06 PM.
    Your post comments are forwarded to the CIA.

  11. #11

    Re: If you're a Brit, don't be a twit!

    Massive immigration into the UK, as into the US, virtually insures a downward spiral into poverty. Decent jobs cannot possibly be created fast enough to keep up with the flood. At least the Eastern Europeans will assimilate in a generation or so. That is less likely to happen in the US.

  12. #12
    Virginia Is for Lovers Alnitak's Avatar
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    Re: If you're a Brit, don't be a twit!

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Massive immigration into the UK, as into the US, virtually insures a downward spiral into poverty. Decent jobs cannot possibly be created fast enough to keep up with the flood. At least the Eastern Europeans will assimilate in a generation or so. That is less likely to happen in the US.
    Classic reactive/defensive disorder, targeting ethnic minorities for being perceived as a threat to your way of life. This is almost always rooted in identity problems, leading to a distorted view of others and larger esteem before one's role models, which tends to cement later in life and to extreme ends serves as a motivator for hate crime. You don't even stop to question why you think immigrants are the root of all evil. This forum is not just a conduit to spew hate.

  13. #13
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    Re: If you're a Brit, don't be a twit!

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Massive immigration into the UK, as into the US, virtually insures a downward spiral into poverty. Decent jobs cannot possibly be created fast enough to keep up with the flood. At least the Eastern Europeans will assimilate in a generation or so. That is less likely to happen in the US.
    The current economic crisis in the United States, and the United Kingdom is the result of the banking crisis not immigration.

    The decline in financial well being of the ordinary person in both countries is the result of the banking mafia abusing trust, and almost destroying the world economic system.....not immigration.

    I acknowledge that an excessive inflow of immigrants is counter productive to the needs of an economy wallowing in depression, with a need to restrict immigration obvious made difficult in the UK by European Union legislation on the free flow of labour within the European Union.

  14. #14

    Re: If you're a Brit, don't be a twit!

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    Classic reactive/defensive disorder, targeting ethnic minorities for being perceived as a threat to your way of life. This is almost always rooted in identity problems, leading to a distorted view of others and larger esteem before one's role models, which tends to cement later in life and to extreme ends serves as a motivator for hate crime. You don't even stop to question why you think immigrants are the root of all evil. This forum is not just a conduit to spew hate.
    Both countries have huge numbers of poor and unemployed people and the economy's cannot create jobs fast enough. You inability to think beyond ad hominem attacks and focus on the issues, is part of the problem.

  15. #15
    Virginia Is for Lovers Alnitak's Avatar
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    Re: If you're a Brit, don't be a twit!

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Both countries have huge numbers of poor and unemployed people and the economy's cannot create jobs fast enough. You inability to think beyond ad hominem attacks and focus on the issues, is part of the problem.
    Amusing because

    1) You think it's some big secret

    and

    2) You think nobody really notices this biased obsession of your.

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    Re: If you're a Brit, don't be a twit!

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Both countries have huge numbers of poor and unemployed people and the economy's cannot create jobs fast enough. You inability to think beyond ad hominem attacks and focus on the issues, is part of the problem.
    We find this argument ridiculous because we have no illusions about where you would take your stance on issues like a living minimum wage, decent compensation, and the inevitable labor unions that would be necessary even if immigration were somehow completely curtailed for workers to DEMAND the level of changes from employers necessary to make these jobs reasonably attractive to anyone but an immigrant.

    You have a mythical-fantasy that the free market by itself will fix all of these problems, without any "socialist" regulations or institutions (like unions) needed to do it. The historical record doesn't lead one to believe that if people just take jobs and stop all immigration the quality of life goes up. Check out the history of Closed Japan if you think that works.

  17. #17
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    Re: If you're a Brit, don't be a twit!

    Quote Originally Posted by ChickenGuy View Post
    I will definitely be voting UKIP in next year's European elections, and since UKIP are the ONLY party that is going to give me a chance to vote my country out of this ever-growing unstoppable artificial superstate project, and since it's my number one priority as the single-most important issue at the next election, then therefore I have no choice but to vote UKIP at the general election too.
    I'm appaled that after your last thread, you still dare to spout this nonsense. At times I wish that they actually succeed just to see the likes of you realizing how stupid they have been. Seriously .. don't they teach you economics at school? Or at least the history of the EU, the workings of the financial markets (that your country is very dependend on) or um .. I don't know, stuff like "contracts"? You know, like the one that your country signed 40 years ago?

    Britain would utterly fail without the EU. But hey, it's always easier to blame someone else and tell people some Alex Jones crap

    Oh by the way, how did you enjoy your free travel to other EU countries so far?
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    Re: If you're a Brit, don't be a twit!

    Quote Originally Posted by Corny View Post
    I'm appaled that after your last thread, you still dare to spout this nonsense. At times I wish that they actually succeed just to see the likes of you realizing how stupid they have been. Seriously .. don't they teach you economics at school? Or at least the history of the EU, the workings of the financial markets (that your country is very dependend on) or um .. I don't know, stuff like "contracts"? You know, like the one that your country signed 40 years ago?

    Britain would utterly fail without the EU. But hey, it's always easier to blame someone else and tell people some Alex Jones crap

    Oh by the way, how did you enjoy your free travel to other EU countries so far?
    The last time I checked my history books, the United Kingdom (and before it England and Scotland) had survived as countries for, oh, about 1000 years or so WITHOUT the need to desperately pander to a supernational entity created in the last few decades.

    There WAS a time not so long ago when the relationship of power was sane and sensible, back when it was the much more loosely-based EEC of the 1970's and 1980's. Even then it was seeking more and more power, and along came successive treaties from Maastricht onwards to Lisbon and Amsterdam, etc. etc. I remember Denmark and Sweden having reservations and doubts at the time. Even France once voted 'no' by a slim margin. It wasn't just Britain.

    How many MORE treaties granting ever more and more power will we have? The whole STATED mission of the European Union is "EVER-CLOSER UNION" .... last I checked that means a continual, non-stop process, never-ending, UNTIL EUROPE IS ONE COUNTRY. I couldn't care less about the economics of the situation, it DOES NOT JUSTIFY the amalgamation of powers over to a bureaucratic nightmare of an institution with a almost semi-religious fervor to be the sole European government.

    Where is your own pride for Germany? Don't you want your laws and foreign affairs and budgetary controls kept in the hands of the Bundestag and/or the federal regions of Germany? Or are you happily willing to lose all powers and have unelected officials in Brussels make all the decisions for your country?

    Enough with this stupid and maniacal rush to a pan-European dictatorship. I DON'T WANT IT.

  19. #19
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    Re: If you're a Brit, don't be a twit!

    Quote Originally Posted by ChickenGuy View Post
    The last time I checked my history books, the United Kingdom (and before it England and Scotland) had survived as countries for, oh, about 1000 years or so WITHOUT the need to desperately pander to a supernational entity created in the last few decades.

    There WAS a time not so long ago when the relationship of power was sane and sensible, back when it was the much more loosely-based EEC of the 1970's and 1980's. Even then it was seeking more and more power, and along came successive treaties from Maastricht onwards to Lisbon and Amsterdam, etc. etc. I remember Denmark and Sweden having reservations and doubts at the time. Even France once voted 'no' by a slim margin. It wasn't just Britain.

    How many MORE treaties granting ever more and more power will we have? The whole STATED mission of the European Union is "EVER-CLOSER UNION" .... last I checked that means a continual, non-stop process, never-ending, UNTIL EUROPE IS ONE COUNTRY. I couldn't care less about the economics of the situation, it DOES NOT JUSTIFY the amalgamation of powers over to a bureaucratic nightmare of an institution with a almost semi-religious fervor to be the sole European government.

    Where is your own pride for Germany? Don't you want your laws and foreign affairs and budgetary controls kept in the hands of the Bundestag and/or the federal regions of Germany? Or are you happily willing to lose all powers and have unelected officials in Brussels make all the decisions for your country?

    Enough with this stupid and maniacal rush to a pan-European dictatorship. I DON'T WANT IT.
    I agree with ChickenGuy, I do not think that the British Government should be answerable to anyone but the British People, and certainly not to the bureaucrats over in Brussels. The European Union has become one big ego-project, and its proponents just refuse to allow it to collapse. If history has taught us one thing, it's this: Europe is not a united continent, and each member state is just too different to be joined together in a supranational union, so I think all E.U. member states (including the U.K.), should do ourselves a favour, and return to being independent sovereign nations in charge of our own national affairs.
    Last edited by Special K; October 15th, 2013 at 01:33 PM.

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    Not that I have a very serious opinion on the issue, but I gotta point out that it's easy to want to be independent when your country is a superpower. For MANY countries in Europe, especially in the south and east, the EU is the only chance of any prosperity that they have.
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    Re: If you're a Brit, don't be a twit!

    For us dense outsiders, could anyone provide a concise list of pro's and con's for the UK of being in the EU?

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    Re: If you're a Brit, don't be a twit!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Not that I have a very serious opinion on the issue, but I gotta point out that it's easy to want to be independent when your country is a superpower. For MANY countries in Europe, especially in the south and east, the EU is the only chance of any prosperity that they have.
    I would dispute that.

    BY FAR the biggest beneficiary of the euro has been Germany. That is why Germany has been so insistent on preserving the euro zone.

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    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post

    I would dispute that.

    BY FAR the biggest beneficiary of the euro has been Germany. That is why Germany has been so insistent on preserving the euro zone.
    Nothing in my post even touched on who benefits the most. I was going in a completely different direction.
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    Virginia Is for Lovers Alnitak's Avatar
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    Re: If you're a Brit, don't be a twit!

    Quote Originally Posted by Special K View Post
    I agree with ChickenGuy, I do not think that the British Government should be answerable to anyone but the British People, and certainly not to the bureaucrats over in Brussels. The European Union has become one big ego-project, and its proponents just refuse to allow it to collapse. If history has taught us one thing, it's this: Europe is not a united continent, and each member state is just too different to be joined together in a supranational union, so I think all E.U. member states (including the U.K.), should do ourselves a favour, and return to being independent sovereign nations in charge of our own national affairs.
    Oh man did we in the US have this debate 240 years ago when the states were sovereign.

    There was a serious debate in the US whether the states should be answerable to a federal government at all. It ended up being for the best that the states did not remain totally sovereign, and that the federal government regulates interstate commerce, the national currency, and extranational affairs. Now we are the largest country and economy in the world, and rival the whole European continent's GDP.
    Last edited by Alnitak; October 15th, 2013 at 08:19 PM.

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    Re: If you're a Brit, don't be a twit!

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    For us dense outsiders, could anyone provide a concise list of pro's and con's for the UK of being in the EU?
    Some sixty percent of the UKs trade is with the countries of the European Union.

    To reduce trade barriers that restrain the growth of prosperity.

    To eliminate the growth of another European dictatorship (Napoleon, Kaiser Bill, Adolph Hitler, Benito Mussolini) attempting world domination.

    To foster tangible (not just words filled with good intentions) cooperation between nations that reduces international tensions enabling the EU to act in concert when dealing with localised wars such as in The Balkans some dozen years ago.

    The anti EU sentiments expressed here are focused on the excessive immigration levels that the UK has been facing over the past dozen years, a legitimate concern that could have been handled much more efficiently with a determined political will by those with a plan of their own to reduce the costs of labour by emulating the American tradition of encouraging high levels of immigration.

    The EU continues to be work in progress with many faults emerging, and of course the residual fear of a domineering Germany which is why the smaller nations of Europe are enthusiastic to support the membership of the United Kingdom historically the nation that has intervened many times over the centuries to restrain the rise of domineering powers such as Spain, France and Germany.

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    Re: If you're a Brit, don't be a twit!

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    I would dispute that.

    BY FAR the biggest beneficiary of the euro has been Germany. That is why Germany has been so insistent on preserving the euro zone.
    This is an accurate observation a bitter lesson which the Spanish, Italians and we Greeks have been learning.

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    Re: If you're a Brit, don't be a twit!

    Quote Originally Posted by Special K View Post
    I agree with ChickenGuy, I do not think that the British Government should be answerable to anyone but the British People, and certainly not to the bureaucrats over in Brussels. The European Union has become one big ego-project, and its proponents just refuse to allow it to collapse. If history has taught us one thing, it's this: Europe is not a united continent, and each member state is just too different to be joined together in a supranational union, so I think all E.U. member states (including the U.K.), should do ourselves a favour, and return to being independent sovereign nations in charge of our own national affairs.
    For a British person living in Belfast, Cardiff, Edinburgh, Manchester or Birmingham, London is as distant, and as remote as is Brussels with virtually the same political insensitivity reigning in London, as reigns in Brussels.....

    History has taught the British through being obliged to intervene in Europe over the past several centuries that what happens on the European continent influences life in the United Kingdom from the Battle of Crecy, through to Napoleon, Kaiser Bill, Adolph Hitler, and Benito Mussolini.

    And the various international car manufacturers would rapidly close their factories in the UK were the British to secede from the EU leaving the UK a much less prosperous country knowing that a valuable export market has been lost to British goods, and services.

    In 1945 when the British Government began dismantling the UKs empire it was clear that the next political, and trading union had to be Europe to eliminate any possibility of another world war to add to the previous two which had almost destroyed the United Kingdom's economy, military and political powers.

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    Re: If you're a Brit, don't be a twit!

    While we are discussing the xenophobia of a few Brits this article focuses on the actions of a London traffic warden ticketing the Mercedes of Hilary Clinton for failing to pay a parking fee......I'm a big fan of the Clintons.....am surprised with their fall into poverty

    I quote:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...r-London.html\

    Westminster City Council warden puts penalty notice on her Mercedes
    Clinton was attending an event at Chatham House to pick up an award
    Given 80 fine for failing to buy a ticket while parked in 3.30/hour bay
    Photographer claims he saw one agent flashing his badge to warden
    Councillor: 'We have to be fair to everyone, regardless of their status'

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    Re: If you're a Brit, don't be a twit!

    I consider UKIP what I call BNP light. As to the Lib Dems I live in Southwark by Tower Bridge. Everyone here always voted LIBDEM. They have a real surprize coming first in 2014 and in 2015 A Labour candidate is going to oust our MP Simon Hughes. Simon who calls himself bi (who knows who cares) voted against gay marriage he is done!

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    Re: If you're a Brit, don't be a twit!

    One other thing to leave the EU and think that we will return to a Green & Pleasant land with factories making beautiful things to wear is like taking acid or some other drug. It would be the biggest mistake any country can make.

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    Re: If you're a Brit, don't be a twit!

    The result of an IN/OUT referendum will depend in large measure on whether the UK can renegotiate a more semi-detached relationship with the EU. Many in Europe have become rather jaded with Britain’s constant accusations that the EU is responsible for its economic and social malaise. If it really wants to leave, it may be pushing an open door.
    This would be a huge mistake, in my view.

    The issue is made more complicated by Britain’s historical relationship with Europe:

    Britain’s European policy debates are still themed around the legacy of its past as an extra-European actor with clear but infrequently articulated European interests – strategically, politically and economically. This has resulted in a conglomeration of rhetoric and practices which are as confusing to the politicians selling them as they are to the public consuming them. On the one hand ‘in’ Europe, on the other not ‘run’ by it. On the one hand an exceptional ‘island fortress’, on the other a European security guarantor. On the one hand a deeply European heritage, on the other a global outlook focussing on the Commonwealth and the ‘special relationship’. If the 2017 referendum result is ‘out’, it might be contrary to British interests, but it would at least be true to dominant cultural constructions of Britain’s self-identity as an international actor.
    http://www.social-europe.eu/2013/06/...ue-to-history/

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    Re: If you're a Brit, don't be a twit!

    France does not want the EU dominated by Germany, and along with smaller nations might well encourage compromise to enable the UK not to take the matter to referendum, by granting the British a few face saving exceptions to EU legislation.

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    Re: If you're a Brit, don't be a twit!

    Oh don't count on most people here knowing about the benefits of the EU, either. Our own UKIP, the AfD (Alternative for Germany) who wants to abolish the Euro and and .. almost got into parliament.
    Check out my very own Body Hair Lovers and Photography Groups!

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    Re: If you're a Brit, don't be a twit!

    Would any of the guys who dislike the UK membership in the EU want to give their response to the assertion I seem to be reading here that British opposition is primarily about nativist and anti-immigrant sentiment?

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    Re: If you're a Brit, don't be a twit!

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    Would any of the guys who dislike the UK membership in the EU want to give their response to the assertion I seem to be reading here that British opposition is primarily about nativist and anti-immigrant sentiment?
    I can assure you that my opposition to the United Kingdom's membership within the European Union has nothing to do with "nativist and anti-immigrant sentiment", as you put it. In fact, nothing could be further from the truth in my case, obviously I don't speak on behalf of other British people on this forum, but I myself am from a mixed-race background, and my father was an immigrant to this country, so my opposition to the E.U. on that basis would be non-nonsensical, and that is not where it stems from. For some unknown reason, you can't have a rational debate on the subject of the E.U. in this country without being branded racist or xenophobic, which I am neither. And just for the record, I happen to think that immigration has enriched Britain and British culture, I am in no way opposed to it, and I don't understand why the E.U. debate always gets stripped down to this one issue, when it is so much bigger than that. I personally think that it is an underhanded political tactic used by supporters of the E.U. to silence their critics, making them fear that they will be accused of racism or xenophobia if they do so. I don't see why Europe can't return to being a continent made up of independent sovereign nations that govern their own affairs, in accordance with their own interests, whilst maintaining cordial relations with one another, and trading freely with one another. That is just my opinion on the matter, and I in no way speak on behalf of anyone else in this country, but I do feel that the British people deserve a referendum on this issue, so that we can finally put it to rest, either way, whether we stay in the E.U. or leave the E.U., the people will have had their say and we can move on with our lives, once and for all.
    Last edited by Special K; October 16th, 2013 at 10:39 AM.

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    Re: If you're a Brit, don't be a twit!

    Quote Originally Posted by Special K View Post
    . I don't see why Europe can't return to being a continent made up of independent sovereign nations that govern their own affairs, in accordance with their own interests, whilst maintaining cordial relations with one another, and trading freely with one another.
    Two world wars that started in Europe, that's why.

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    Re: If you're a Brit, don't be a twit!

    UKIP are a bunch of comedy bigots.

    Voted for by the xenophobic homophobic pub bores who don't look beyond the end of their own street.

    Since we do 60% of our trade with the EU we would be slitting our own throats. If you want to send the economy back into recession - pull out of Europe. You will soon be bitching when you have to join the longer queue at Malaga airport

    One more thing. As gay men we should be wary of UKIP. They may be comedy bigots but they are still bigots. There are some with some very homophobic views. They have been successful in pushing the Tories to the right. The Tories have been hammering the poor, unemployed,disabled and definitely immigrants trying to reach the UKIP vote which they have lost. There are some in UKIP who don't want us to exist.

    Dont lose sight of that when you are getting a bout of anti-European xenophobia while drinking your French wine or planning your next holiday in Greece.

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    Re: If you're a Brit, don't be a twit!

    Quote Originally Posted by broadshoulder View Post

    Dont lose sight of that when you are getting a bout of anti-European xenophobia while drinking your French wine or planning your next holiday in Greece.
    You are very welcome in bankrupt, but still very sunny Greece....despite some rain in Piraeus today...just for today.

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    Re: If you're a Brit, don't be a twit!

    Quote Originally Posted by Special K View Post
    I can assure you that my opposition to the United Kingdom's membership within the European Union has nothing to do with "nativist and anti-immigrant sentiment", as you put it. In fact, nothing could be further from the truth in my case, obviously I don't speak on behalf of other British people on this forum, but I myself am from a mixed-race background, and my father was an immigrant to this country, so my opposition to the E.U. on that basis would be non-nonsensical, and that is not where it stems from. For some unknown reason, you can't have a rational debate on the subject of the E.U. in this country without being branded racist or xenophobic, which I am neither. And just for the record, I happen to think that immigration has enriched Britain and British culture, I am in no way opposed to it, and I don't understand why the E.U. debate always gets stripped down to this one issue, when it is so much bigger than that. I personally think that it is an underhanded political tactic used by supporters of the E.U. to silence their critics, making them fear that they will be accused of racism or xenophobia if they do so. I don't see why Europe can't return to being a continent made up of independent sovereign nations that govern their own affairs, in accordance with their own interests, whilst maintaining cordial relations with one another, and trading freely with one another. That is just my opinion on the matter, and I in no way speak on behalf of anyone else in this country, but I do feel that the British people deserve a referendum on this issue, so that we can finally put it to rest, either way, whether we stay in the E.U. or leave the E.U., the people will have had their say and we can move on with our lives, once and for all.
    I think its a tad unfair to claim that those in favour of staying in the EU use anti-immigration rhetoric as means to silence critics. Anti-immigration rhetoric and xenophobia exist because the only party making an issue of our involvement in Europe is UKIP, who have been shown to be, like lambdaboy noted, a BNP 'Light'. UKIP are a nationalist party. They don't care what is good for Britain, they care about remaining separatist. Their popularity rests on the mainstream populist opinion of the day. Opinions which have been coloured by factors such as unanticipated immigration levels and a global economic crisis. UKIP are using these events as leverage to argue their anti-European/Nationalist values.

    I welcome a referendum on European membership, though wouldn't care if there wasn't one, since i'm happy with European membership. It would be the pro-European arguments being heard for once, than people really need to know about again it seems. The arguments which led to a yes vote in the referendum we had to join in the first place. The trade benefits, the CAP (common agricultural policy), the EU declaration of human rights, continental security, fishing rights etc etc. There is no shortage of positives, they've just taken a back seat due to UKIP and its own vision of Europe - stepping backwards.

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    Re: If you're a Brit, don't be a twit!

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    Two world wars that started in Europe, that's why.
    Times have changed since then. I do not think that the break-up of the European Union will result in World War III, anyone who says otherwise is just scaremongering.

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    Re: If you're a Brit, don't be a twit!

    Quote Originally Posted by Special K View Post
    Times have changed since then. I do not think that the break-up of the European Union will result in World War III, anyone who says otherwise is just scaremongering.
    That's because of the cooperation that has grown out of the European Union breaking down barriers, and eliminating suspicions.

    You may be surprised to know that Asians feature in the membership of the UKIP for their own (apparent) well being, and place in the sun (so to speak when referring to UK weather ) for they assume that the quality of their life is compromised by continuing waves of new immigrants.

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    Re: If you're a Brit, don't be a twit!

    Quote Originally Posted by DreamTeam View Post
    I think its a tad unfair to claim that those in favour of staying in the EU use anti-immigration rhetoric as means to silence critics. Anti-immigration rhetoric and xenophobia exist because the only party making an issue of our involvement in Europe is UKIP, who have been shown to be, like lambdaboy noted, a BNP 'Light'. UKIP are a nationalist party. They don't care what is good for Britain, they care about remaining separatist. Their popularity rests on the mainstream populist opinion of the day. Opinions which have been coloured by factors such as unanticipated immigration levels and a global economic crisis. UKIP are using these events as leverage to argue their anti-European/Nationalist values.

    I welcome a referendum on European membership, though wouldn't care if there wasn't one, since i'm happy with European membership. It would be the pro-European arguments being heard for once, than people really need to know about again it seems. The arguments which led to a yes vote in the referendum we had to join in the first place. The trade benefits, the CAP (common agricultural policy), the EU declaration of human rights, continental security, fishing rights etc etc. There is no shortage of positives, they've just taken a back seat due to UKIP and its own vision of Europe - stepping backwards.
    For your information, I do not support UKIP, and nor will I be voting for them at the next general election. I happen to think that they are awful, self-serving, egotistical twits, for lack of a better word. However, to reiterate my earlier point, I do think that the British people deserve a referendum on this issue; this is a democracy and the people of this country should have the right to re-validate our relationship with the European Union, after all, the last referendum on E.U. membership was held almost four decades ago, and given that the E.U. has changed significantly since then, I think it is only fair to consult the public and let them decide our future. The will of the majority will prevail, whatever that may be, and that is the right thing to do in a democracy.

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    Re: If you're a Brit, don't be a twit!

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    That's because of the cooperation that has grown out of the European Union breaking down barriers, and eliminating suspicions.

    You may be surprised to know that Asians feature in the membership of the UKIP for their own (apparent) well being, and place in the sun (so to speak when referring to UK weather ) for they assume that the quality of their life is compromised by continuing waves of new immigrants.
    Please don't make assumptions about my political affiliations or my ethnic background; you know nothing about me.
    Last edited by Special K; October 16th, 2013 at 11:51 AM.

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    Re: If you're a Brit, don't be a twit!

    Quote Originally Posted by Corny View Post
    Oh don't count on most people here knowing about the benefits of the EU, either. Our own UKIP, the AfD (Alternative for Germany) who wants to abolish the Euro and and .. almost got into parliament.
    Perish the thought! It's vital Europe remains united.

  45. #45

    Re: If you're a Brit, don't be a twit!

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    You are very welcome in bankrupt, but still very sunny Greece....despite some rain in Piraeus today...just for today.
    I was in Rhodes this summer.
    My own personal contribution to the Greek recovery!

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    Re: If you're a Brit, don't be a twit!

    Quote Originally Posted by Special K View Post
    For your information, I do not support UKIP, and nor will I be voting for them at the next general election. I happen to think that they are awful, self-serving, egotistical twits, for lack of a better word. However, to reiterate my earlier point, I do think that the British people deserve a referendum on this issue; this is a democracy and the people of this country should have the right to re-validate our relationship with the European Union, after all, the last referendum on E.U. membership was held almost four decades ago, and given that the E.U. has changed significantly since then, I think it is only fair to consult the public and let them decide our future. The will of the majority will prevail, whatever that may be, and that is the right thing to do in a democracy.
    No, i wasn't implying you supported UKIP. I was pointing out that the issue of European membership is an issue BECAUSE of that party. Whilst Conservatives are pandering to the right by offering a referendum, neither Conservatives, Labour or Lib Dem's think we are better off out than in.

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    Re: If you're a Brit, don't be a twit!

    Quote Originally Posted by Special K View Post
    Please don't make assumptions about my political affiliations or my ethnic background; you know nothing about me.

    I'm merely responding to your clearly defined statements here....no assumptions on my part.

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    Re: If you're a Brit, don't be a twit!

    Quote Originally Posted by EastMed View Post
    I was in Rhodes this summer.
    My own personal contribution to the Greek recovery!
    You're very welcome to return for Rhodes is my home island....and a paradise for the liberated person seeking peace, in an harmonious atmosphere garnished with oodles of sunshine.

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    Re: If you're a Brit, don't be a twit!

    You may be surprised to know that Asians feature in the membership of the UKIP for their own (apparent) well being, and place in the sun (so to speak when referring to UK weather ) for they assume that the quality of their life is compromised by continuing waves of new immigrants.
    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    I'm merely responding to your clearly defined statements here....no assumptions on my part.
    Actually, you are making assumptions about me, which is quite clear from your statements above. Just to clarify a few things; firstly, I do not support UKIP, and secondly, I am not Asian (not that there is anything wrong with being Asian, I simply am not). And why is it that some people in this forum cannot tolerate others having different opinions to their own? It's like a totalitarian dictatorship in this forum because of some people. I simply stated my opinion, I did not say that I was right, and I don't go around trying to convince others that they should think like me, we are all free to think and say what we like; it's called freedom of speech, I don't know if you are familiar with the concept, by any chance.

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    Re: If you're a Brit, don't be a twit!

    Quote Originally Posted by Special K View Post
    Actually, you are making assumptions about me, which is quite clear from your statements above. Just to clarify a few things; firstly, I do not support UKIP, and secondly, I am not Asian (not that there is anything wrong with being Asian, I simply am not). And why is it that some people in this forum cannot tolerate others having different opinions to their own? It's like a totalitarian dictatorship in this forum because of some people. I simply stated my opinion, I did not say that I was right, and I don't go around trying to convince others that they should think like me, we are all free to think and say what we like; it's called freedom of speech, I don't know if you are familiar with the concept, by any chance.
    Read my words carefully....for they do not refer to you, but to Asians who have joined the UKIP....on this thread you have never referred to your self as Asian....and you go on confirm that you are not an Asian.....therefore it is crystal clear that I have made no assumptions about you.....nor have I at any time alleged that you are a member of the UKIP.
    Last edited by kallipolis; October 17th, 2013 at 08:28 AM.

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