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  1. #1
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    gsdx's Avatar
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    Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

    For some reason, Columbus is remembered as a great explorer and the man who 'discovered' North America. He wasn't. He never even set foot on North America. The Vikings had discovered what is now Newfoundland and Labrador (and set up a settlement on the northern tip of Newfoundland) a thousand years ago. By the time Columbus reached the West Indies, the French and Spanish had been in North America for a century.

    Columbus stated out looking for a western trade route to the East Indies. Instead, he 'discovered' a land of riches in both gold and jewels and a rich source of slaves. He abandoned his search for the West Indies and turned his priorities to pillaging as much gold as he could and to overpowering the natives he found there in order to make them slaves. Hundreds of natives were taken back to Europe. Columbus kept a number of them as his own slaves. If they objected, Columbus had their noses and ears cut off as an example to the others who considered objecting. Of course, there is no way to know how many natives he murdered before they relented and allowed themselves to become slaves. On his second voyage, he was armed for war.

    http://newswatch.nationalgeographic....first-contact/
    http://www.webpronews.com/the-darker...lumbus-2013-10
    http://ca.news.yahoo.com/slavery--di...141953979.html

    Why is this man remembered as a hero, and why does he have his own holiday?

  2. #2
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    Re: Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

    colubus own holiday ans he a deado bet he upset

    thankyou

  3. #3
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    Re: Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

    Because:

    In fourteen-nine-two
    Columbus sailed the ocean blue ...

    And he was Catholic and they were writing history at the time.

    (And the Portuguese and Spanish cod fishermen weren't advertising their earlier find.)

  4. #4
    Dejavudoo
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    Re: Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

    It is obviously one of the late vestigages of colonialism, an homage to the Europeans who conquered, and not unique to the United States. Several Latin American countries make observance under different names, claiming Latin heritage through Columbus even though he was not Spanish.

    The official holiday seems to be a continuation of late 19th century American imperialistic frenzy, dressed up in patriotic guise. As America observed the 400th anniversary of European conquest of the continent in 1892, the milestone seems to have taken hold and become a focal point, an anchor to "ancient" claim sort of thinking. It seems rather akin to the fuss the Commonwealth makes over the British throne, a naked assertion of colonial power and the aristocratic powers that graced us with their opportunities to serve them with the proceeds of raw materials and food from lands no longer under direct feudal control.

    The formal holiday began only in 1907 in Colorado but was quickly picked up by Italian American descendants, finally seeing a lobbying effort in Congress by the very Roman Catholic Knight of Columbus and making it into federal law in the 1937. Think prohibition and a widespread power base for Italians during the 20's & 30's and it makes much more sense.

    Then there is the whole bit where the actual settlers of the New World (Mongolian races from Northeast Asia) came over before written language was a tool, so there story lay covered in vines under the blistering sun in Central America on the sides of abandoned "pyramids." If they'd been technically and politically superior, they'd be the ones writing the history books (blocks?) in 1900 somewhere in Europe after they had conquered it. History rarely commemorates the losers.

    Oh, and three states -- Alaska, Hawaii, and South Dakota -- refuse observance. When I lived in Alaska it was a nice change to see people thinking about it. Now that I live in New Mexico with the large Native population, it is telling to see the Latino population embrace the holiday at the expense of their Native neighbors. Telling bit of animosity there between these ancient enemies, even though there is plenty of miscegenation between the two peoples. PC, the Latino population is not.

    It stands to reason that the observance should die out about the same time you guys give the Windsors the rout.
    Last edited by Dejavudoo; October 11th, 2013 at 05:46 AM.

  5. #5
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    Re: Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dejavudoo View Post

    It stands to reason that the observance should die out about the same time you guys give the Windsors the rout.
    That one of our Greek royals (Prince Philip of Greece) - via Denmark, and Germany ancestery - is married into the House of Windsor I believe that along with the royal families of Norway, Sweden, Denmark, The Netherlands, Luxembourg, and Spain should continue to impress the world with their respective constitutional monarchies..if only because these countries are also advanced social democracies which the United States has much to learn from....I may add that we Greeks voted our monarchy out of office way back in 1974...and now look at the mess we're in.

    I also salute the members of The Commonwealth of Nations whose head of state is Queen Elizabeth rrepresenting some of the most advanced, and mature democratic states on this planet, namely: Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Gibraltar, Bermuda, The Bahamas, The Falkland Islands, The Cayman Islands, et al....

  6. #6
    Dejavudoo
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    Re: Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

    But in like manner, the monarchy represents imperial as well as colonial power. The progressive policies and enlightenment evolved at odds to the established order.

    American retention of the Columbus story doesn't mean that it has not been progressive in many areas, whether it lags behind the star performers of the Commonwealth or not. There are yet plenty of slow children at the back of the class in the Commonwealth, especially the ones the Brits were slow to let out of school in the 2nd half of the 20th century.

    As in North America, Australia finds it much easier to revel in celebrating diversity after the Aboriginals have been decimated. The rest of those tiny islands wouldn't constitute as many people as live in New York when merged into one populace. Under that model, America could just select a couple of zones of enlightened progressive cities and claim victory over its dark past.

    Then there is the shining example of how India benefitted culturally from Victoria's "beneficent" hand. . .

    The Age of Empire isn't exactly over.
    Last edited by Dejavudoo; October 11th, 2013 at 05:57 AM.

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    Re: Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

    The Minoans - an early Greek civilisation - also lay claim to discovering America. The Byzantines also drew charts with the outline of North Eastern America clearly displayed.....:

    http://canada.greekreporter.com/2012...fore-columbus/

    I quote:
    Dr. Tsikritsis states that, “even before the time of Christopher Columbus, there was a communication which began during the Minoan era and continued until the Hellenistic times. The purpose of these travels during the Bronze Age was related to trade and the transportation of pure copper from Lake Superior of Canada.”

  8. #8
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    Re: Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dejavudoo View Post
    But in like manner, the monarchy represents imperial as well as colonial power. The progressive policies and enlightenment evolved at odds to the established order.

    American retention of the Columbus story doesn't mean that it has not been progressive in many areas, whether it lags behind the star performers of the Commonwealth or not. There are yet plenty of slow children at the back of the class in the Commonwealth, especially the ones the Brits were slow to let out of school in the 2nd half of the 20th century.

    Then there is the shining example of how India benefitted culturally from Victoria's "beneficent" hand. . .

    The Age of Empire isn't exactly over.
    During my post graduate work at Bologna University I was a regular visitor to Genoa, Italy (a lover attracted my fascination with this gorgeous city) where Christopher Columbus is celebrated as a son of that great city....yes, Columbus was an Italian working for Ferdinand and Isabella of Spain.

    India did benefit immensely from the United Kingdom's Raj, and let no one tell you otherwise, this includes India's democracy, the most populous on this planet using the Westminster system of governance inherited from their former benign colonial administration.

  9. #9
    Dejavudoo
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    Re: Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

    That's all we are to you Europeans -- just one big Wal-Mart where basic goods like lumber and minerals are/were cheap.

    We're not the one y'all wanted to marry and take home to mama -- we're the cheap whore who can't be resisted because we put out AND cooked you breakfast before you crept back home at dawn.

  10. #10
    Dejavudoo
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    Re: Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

    Yes, but India suffered as well, and the Brits were all too happy to viciously exploit religious divisions there.

    The lasting legacy in India is the adoption of the language and the residual benefit it has afforded a globalized economy because the English-speaking West has the money to come shopping for outsourcing in services as well as manufacturing.

  11. #11
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    Re: Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dejavudoo View Post
    That's all we are to you Europeans -- just one big Wal-Mart where basic goods like lumber and minerals are/were cheap.

    We're not the one y'all wanted to marry and take home to mama -- we're the cheap whore who can't be resisted because we put out AND cooked you breakfast before you crept back home at dawn.
    But your nation was founded by English men, and women dedicated to preserving the ideals of freedom that the English had inherited from the The Magna Carta, extracted from that Norman brute King John, so let us also celebrate the fact that General George Washington spent most of his life referring to himself as an English gentleman living in British North America.....none of this Viking, Italian, or Greek nonsense...please

  12. #12
    Dejavudoo
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    Re: Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

    Bloody merchants and pirates they were.

    Lackey gits serving the inbred fops in Spain, England, Portugal, France, Germany, and lesser wannabes

    And when times were lean, we burned witches to keep warm, just like in England. Storied past.
    Last edited by Dejavudoo; October 11th, 2013 at 06:12 AM.

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    Re: Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dejavudoo View Post
    Yes, but India suffered as well, and the Brits were all too happy to viciously exploit religious divisions there.

    The lasting legacy in India is the adoption of the language and the residual benefit it has afforded a globalized economy because the English-speaking West has the money to come shopping for outsourcing in services as well as manufacturing.
    The religious, and caste divisions were already present in India well before the arrival of British, and tragically India remains divided by these very inhumane traditions to this very day....and when Gandhi (a high caste, Brahmin) lived in South Africa his opinions of Black South Africans is unprintable here...so let us be pragmatic in recognising that liberty and maturity are not always companions as the Tea Party antics currently inform us.

  14. #14
    Dejavudoo
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    Re: Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    Gandhi (a high caste, Brahmin) lived in South Africa his opinions of Black South Africans is unprintable here...so let us be pragmatic in recognising that liberty and maturity are not always companions as the Tea Party antics currently inform us.
    Well, the Indians ARE Aryans. . .

    Sigh.

    What a shock, to learn white Europeans didn't invent racism. It just doesn't seem fair that Americans cannot be somehow blamed for the racism in India. I'm sure something can be figured out.

    OK, you lot -- stop the presses. We'll start reprinting those books tomorrow.

    Even in the mixed ethnicities of Brazil there are still vestiges of the caste system, just a racial one.

  15. #15
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    Re: Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

    Oh Good Lord. It's a holiday! Don't worry about it, just enjoy it.



  16. #16
    Dejavudoo
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    Re: Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

    Unfortunately, in New Mexico, and in the Great West where Natives were dumped in the desert, it isn't just a holiday, it's a reminder of conquest.

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    Re: Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dejavudoo View Post
    Well, the Indians ARE Aryans. . .

    Sigh.

    What a shock, to learn white Europeans didn't invent racism. It just doesn't seem fair that Americans cannot be somehow blamed for the racism in India. I'm sure something can be figured out.

    OK, you lot -- stop the presses. We'll start reprinting those books tomorrow.

    Even in the mixed ethnicities of Brazil there are still vestiges of the caste system, just a racial one.
    When one opens up this debate the facts confronting us are shocking informing us that the colour spectrum is never as black, and white as our more progressive brethren would have us believe...but I'm not in the mood for yet another race thread for the sun is shining brightly in Piraeus with a high today of 29 degrees celsius...and it's poet's day, Friday so all is well.

  18. #18
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    Re: Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

    I don't think the queen is a figure of imperialism. How many decades of consensual stewardship does it take before realising her legitimacy is based on mutual affinity and common history. It's not like there is a garrison of British troops keeping an eye on the colonial governor. We have her as monarch because she's ours.

    And how many centuries of constitutional change and progressive peaceful reform must pass before the monarchy is understood to be part of the Enlightenment. Again, we don't have to meet every year to have parliament defeat yet another attempt by the queen to repeal the magma carts. Err... Magna Carta. Bloody Cupertino autocorrect.

    The queen represents the Westminster system - the world's greatest mechanism of democratic governance, and our common heritage in the commonwealth.

    I will say it is churlish to dump on the US, days after they finally crossed the difficult health care threshold, and finally cast their lot with civilised societies who realise they can act as a community to solve problems, rather than an assemblage of indifferent strangers.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  19. #19
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    Re: Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

    Today's purse fight thread. (Will have to work hard - didn't have one yesterday.)


  20. #20
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    Re: Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

    Sounds like he was a war criminal to me.
    Yea why have a holiday named after a war criminal.
    Last edited by Telstra; October 11th, 2013 at 06:59 AM.


    NEVER LISTEN TO A ONE SIDED STORY AND JUDGE.

  21. #21
    Vannie
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    Re: Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

    Just wait till Telstra hears about this! OMG! Its too late!

  22. #22
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    Re: Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vannie View Post
    Just wait till Telstra hears about this! OMG! Its too late!
    We need Belamo to give us an obscure literary reference for this thread

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    Re: Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

    We all know he wasn't a "hero"--history is filled with "heros" who were scumbags and "hero's". In NY no one gives a shit about Columbus---it's salute Italy and the great Italian Americans in history--don't know what it is in other parts of this country. You know every immigrant group is given a day to be proud---a few are national hloidays.

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    Re: Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

    Quote Originally Posted by Telstra View Post
    Sounds like he was a war criminal to me.
    Yea why have a holiday named after a war criminal.
    Custer was a war criminal.

    Columbus was a disease vector.

  25. #25
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    Re: Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

    Short answer - I don't know.

    Long answer - Kids don't get the day off(unless that changed), I don't get a day off, there are no presents, Hallmark doesn't make a card(that I know of), I never saw a parade in remembrance and the only cartoon that cared in recent memory was The Peanuts gang, but I think they were forced into it by that damn teacher of theirs. So, by definition in 'Muhricah, it's not a holiday.
    "Bleed your heart out,

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  26. #26
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    Re: Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dejavudoo View Post
    It stands to reason that the observance should die out about the same time you guys give the Windsors the rout.
    But the Windsors are based in recorded history. The Vikings are based on recorded history. Columbus is based on rewritten history, very little of which is true.

    What about Bartolome de los Casas, "a wealthy plantation owner who sold off his holdings, freed his slaves, turned to the priesthood, and fought for the dignity of native Americans."

    http://ca.news.yahoo.com/slavery--di...141953979.html

    Las Casasí early years are marked by his struggle to come to terms with the horrors he has seen and his understanding of how God could allow His creatures to suffer so. Many of his contemporaries believed that God had delivered the New World to Spain as a reward of sorts, to encourage the Spanish to continue to wage war upon heresy and idolatry as defined by the Catholic Church. Las Casas agreed that God had led Spain to the New World, but he saw a different reason: it was a test. God was testing the loyal Catholic nation of Spain to see if it could be just and merciful, and in Las Casasí opinion, it was failing Godís test miserably.

    It is well-known that Las Casas fought tooth and nail for justice and freedom for the New World natives, but it is this aspect of Las Casasís beliefs that is frequently overlooked. His love for his countrymen was no less than his love for the Indians: just as he wanted to see the latter live in freedom in this life, he wanted the former to go to heaven in the next. When he freed the natives working on the Las Casas family holdings in Hispaniola, he did it as much for the sake of his soul and those of his family members as he did for the natives themselves.
    http://latinamericanhistory.about.co.../lascasas1.htm

    A far-better man to celebrate with a holiday than the fraudulent Columbus, yet it's doubtful that his name even appears in history books.

  27. #27
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    Re: Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

    Quote Originally Posted by nycguydowntown View Post
    We all know he wasn't a "hero"--history is filled with "heros" who were scumbags and "hero's". In NY no one gives a shit about Columbus---it's salute Italy and the great Italian Americans in history--don't know what it is in other parts of this country. You know every immigrant group is given a day to be proud---a few are national hloidays.
    That's more or less my perception of it as well. I've never seen it as a serious holiday people turn out en masse to celebrate, or even get the day off of school from. I have only ever seen Italian-Americans go nuts over it, and I tend to see that more as a cultural pride day for them than any serious discussion of who or what Columbus was, so I don't particularly begrudge it per se.

    I'm typically far more bothered by what I'll see in facebook comments around Thanksgiving. About three years ago I remember reading a status from one of my sister's classmates (my sister was 1 year behind me in high school, so I knew most of her friends) saying, "Why do people all act like we're all supposed to think about Native Americans today? The truth is I don't think of them, except when I'm driving through their reservation on my way to a resort on my business expense account and pass by a lot of welfare-sucking troglodytes."

    I very much doubt she saw me coming, much like a shark.

  28. #28
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    Re: Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

    Quote Originally Posted by gsdx View Post
    For some reason, Columbus is remembered as a great explorer and the man who 'discovered' North America.He never even set foot on North America.
    I understand your point however the Bahama's , and the West Indies (all of the Caribbean) are in fact a part of the North America Continent , as is Mexico ( all of Central America).
    Last edited by vulgar_newcomer; October 11th, 2013 at 09:23 AM.

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    Re: Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

    Strangely, the geography of the world was never really subject to a consensus among the world's geographers. There are several different schemes for how to divide up the world's continents, and even things like how many continents there are depends more on the home country of the geographer than on any actual feature of the world. Thus while it may be right to say Mexico and the Caribbean are part of North America, it is also correct to say they are not. Mexico and the Caribbean are part of Central America. Or if you are a Brazilian, they are simply part of America.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  30. #30

    Re: Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

    Supposedly this is a "secret 4,000 year old map" -



    It came from this site: http://quasimoto.exblog.jp/m2012-09-01/

    With this text: 比較のために現在の世界地図はこれ。その正確さが分かる。

    I'm inclined to believe that the Ancient Greeks and other early civilizations were capable of finding America, either intentionally exploring, or by accident.
    http://www.justusboys.com/forum/signaturepics/sigpic216959_1.gif

  31. #31
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    Re: Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

    Quote Originally Posted by vulgar_newcomer View Post
    I understand your point however the Bahama's , and the West Indies (all of the Caribbean) are in fact a part of the North America Continent , as is Mexico ( all of Central America).
    You'll get no argument from me. However, even when I was a kid back in the 50s and 60s, I was taught in school that Columbus discovered 'America', referring to the continent and not just the West Indies. He never set foot on continental North America. I'm not even sure if he set eyes on it. Even now, he is credited with discovering something he might not have know was there.

    The history of Columbus as taught in school is false and rewritten history, just like the history of the Pilgrims and Thanksgiving as well as the history of Paul Revere, both of which are based upon poems and one of which was written by an English woman who had never been outside England and made the whole thing up in her imagination.

    Maybe it's time to start teaching the students that Columbus was a greedy murderer and slave driver who tortured those who defied him. Maybe it's time to start teaching history and not fiction.

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    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

    Actually I was taught that about Columbus in the 1980's in Canada. Of course I was also taught that North America ended at the southern border of the United States.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

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    Re: Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

    Quote Originally Posted by gsdx View Post
    You'll get no argument from me. However, even when I was a kid back in the 50s and 60s, I was taught in school that Columbus discovered 'America', referring to the continent and not just the West Indies. He never set foot on continental North America. I'm not even sure if he set eyes on it. Even now, he is credited with discovering something he might not have know was there.

    The history of Columbus as taught in school is false and rewritten history, just like the history of the Pilgrims and Thanksgiving as well as the history of Paul Revere, both of which are based upon poems and one of which was written by an English woman who had never been outside England and made the whole thing up in her imagination.

    Maybe it's time to start teaching the students that Columbus was a greedy murderer and slave driver who tortured those who defied him. Maybe it's time to start teaching history and not fiction.
    I agree that what you're describing still, for the most part, reflects a typical general education in the U.S. I would say that everything we learned about Columbus was, at best, "neutral." The extremities of some of his actions, and especially his motivations (he still vaguely came off as an 'explorer' who sacrificed everything for knowledge and taking a gamble on the unknown sort of tripe) were definitely tapered down. Most of what I know about how bad he was came from documentaries or reading completely outside of the standard curriculum.

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    Re: Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    The Minoans - an early Greek civilisation - also lay claim to discovering America. The Byzantines also drew charts with the outline of North Eastern America clearly displayed.....:

    http://canada.greekreporter.com/2012...fore-columbus/

    I quote:
    Awesome link -- I'd only heard Greek presence as a hypothesis before.

    Quote Originally Posted by palbert View Post
    Custer was a war criminal.

    Columbus was a disease vector.
    Interesting that the Greeks, the Chinese, and the Vikings all got here before Columbus, but it was an Italian with a crew of Spanish scum who brought disease.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

    Well if you're American of Scandinavian descent you have Leif Eriksson instead.



    (who by the way I'd never heard of in my life only a few years ago, and who seems to be more mentioned by Americans than by Europeans)

    Although having said that, in looking up an image search I discovered that his statue is the one I saw outside the Hallgrimskirkja in Reykjavik ten years ago, but I'd no idea who he was back then.



    In other words whether Italian or Norse their respective explorer is simply given 'national hero' status regardless of the accomplishments or history.

    P.S.

    They mention Captain Cook in Australia as if he discovered everything when in reality (as I posted in a thread a month back) it was the Dutch who did most of the discovering over a century previous.

  36. #36

    Re: Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

    this article? http://news.yahoo.com/slavery--disea...141953979.html

    pretty much exactly my nature of thinking.."I told you so, if this not happen- this shouldn't..aw too late" I love to point out pretty silly mistake from the past..like who invented nuclear bomb?
    kill him first.

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    Re: Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

    The ancient world was definitely a lot more interconnected than we generally imagine today. The whole image of people being born in a place, working the land there and never leaving it for generations is such a picture of the middle ages though we tend to extrapolate it back to most of human history. Humans used to be very mobile. Who were the Hyksos? When did the Romani first leave India? Exactly what did the Huns look like? There's still debates over all of these things because human populations used to move and shift and travel all the time.

    I still image a "bitch, please" look on the face of Tlingits in Alaska who had ancient Polynesian south Pacific artifacts and trade items and anthropologists boggled over "how the heck did these get here?", and did likewise for Tlingit and Alaskan artifacts found among Maori and S. Pacific sites.

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    Re: Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

    Quote Originally Posted by borg69unimatrix View Post
    Supposedly this is a "secret 4,000 year old map" -



    It came from this site: http://quasimoto.exblog.jp/m2012-09-01/

    With this text: 比較のために現在の世界地図はこれ。その正確さが分かる。

    I'm inclined to believe that the Ancient Greeks and other early civilizations were capable of finding America, either intentionally exploring, or by accident.
    You should read 1421: the Year China Discovered America, by Gavin Menzies. If China hadn't had a certain xenophobic emperor, the conquistadors might have reached the Pacific coast only to encounter Chinese colonies.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

    Quote Originally Posted by gsdx View Post
    You'll get no argument from me. However, even when I was a kid back in the 50s and 60s, I was taught in school that Columbus discovered 'America', referring to the continent and not just the West Indies. He never set foot on continental North America. I'm not even sure if he set eyes on it. Even now, he is credited with discovering something he might not have know was there.

    The history of Columbus as taught in school is false and rewritten history, just like the history of the Pilgrims and Thanksgiving as well as the history of Paul Revere, both of which are based upon poems and one of which was written by an English woman who had never been outside England and made the whole thing up in her imagination.

    Maybe it's time to start teaching the students that Columbus was a greedy murderer and slave driver who tortured those who defied him. Maybe it's time to start teaching history and not fiction.
    I was always fascinated by my dad's history book from when he was a kid -- it listed Chinese settling on the west coast around 600 A.D. and again around 1400 A.D. in its table of chronology of North America. But my teachers knew nothing about that!

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChickenGuy View Post

    P.S.

    They mention Captain Cook in Australia as if he discovered everything when in reality (as I posted in a thread a month back) it was the Dutch who did most of the discovering over a century previous.
    The Chinese had a trade colony in Australia in the fourteenth or fifteenth century.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChickenGuy View Post
    Well if you're American of Scandinavian descent you have Leif Eriksson instead.
    You might find this interesting: http://www.pc.gc.ca/eng/lhn-nhs/nl/meadows/index.aspx

    It's the Viking settlement at L'Anse aux Meadows in northern Newfoundland, the earliest European settlement in North America. It was discovered in the 1960, ultimate proof that the Vikings were the first to settle in North America.

  42. #42

    Re: Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

    I believe this map is from 1565 -

    I'm amazed at how well Antarctica is mapped out for that time.

    http://www.justusboys.com/forum/signaturepics/sigpic216959_1.gif

  43. #43

    Re: Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

    http://www.justusboys.com/forum/signaturepics/sigpic216959_1.gif

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    Re: Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

    Quote Originally Posted by borg69unimatrix View Post
    I believe this map is from 1565 -

    I'm amazed at how well Antarctica is mapped out for that time.
    It wasn't - they often included the mythical 'Terra Australis' in the Middle Ages maps without ever knowing it was there - it was only centuries later that von Bellingshausen finally sighted land in the vicinity.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabian_...Bellingshausen

  45. #45

    Re: Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

    The great men of the past are rarely deemed great because of their virtue. They are deemed great by the enormity of their achievement. Alexander, Caesar, Charlemagne and Napoleon were all mass murderers, and yet it hard for many of us to think of them without some admiration, even affection, as was also the case in their own times. The evil that Columbus personally wrought is minor in comparison, although the evil that followed is not.

    "The man made for public life and authority sees not the individual; he sees only things, their weight, and their consequences."
    --Napoleon, Memorial de Sainte-Helene

  46. #46

    Re: Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

    So... they guessed it was there??? And got lucky? It looks at least as accurate as the rest of their map does.
    http://www.justusboys.com/forum/signaturepics/sigpic216959_1.gif

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    Re: Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

    Quote Originally Posted by LatimerRd View Post
    Alexander, Caesar, Charlemagne and Napoleon were all mass murderers
    But this is taught in school. Kids in school aren't taught the atrocities perpetrated by Columbus. The only thing kids know is that he 'sailed the ocean blue' in 1492 and discovered the country where they live. It's almost like teaching that the only thing Jeffrey Dahmer did was to attend church with his grandmother, or that John Wayne Gacy was a clown. The real story of Columbus is repressed while his 'discovery' makes him a historical hero. And he gets a holiday on top of that.

    That holiday should be given to someone who really deserves it. How about Harriet Tubman or Neil Armstrong? These people changed the course of history for many people. Columbus changed it in the wrong direction.

  48. #48

    Re: Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

    Quote Originally Posted by palbert View Post
    Because:

    In fourteen-nine-two
    Columbus sailed the ocean blue ...

    And he was Catholic and they were writing history at the time.

    (And the Portuguese and Spanish cod fishermen weren't advertising their earlier find.)
    Or was it "In fourteen-ninety-three / Columbus sailed the deep blue sea." Or "In fourteen-ninety-four / Columbus crossed the ocean floor." You can figure out the rest.

  49. #49

    Re: Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

    Quote Originally Posted by cynicus View Post
    Or was it "In fourteen-ninety-three / Columbus sailed the deep blue sea." Or "In fourteen-ninety-four / Columbus crossed the ocean floor." You can figure out the rest.
    ♪♫ In 1814 I took a little trip - Along the Colonel Jackson down the Mighty Mississip. ♪♫ I took a little bacon and I took a little beans ♫♪


    ...I forgot how the rest went.
    http://www.justusboys.com/forum/signaturepics/sigpic216959_1.gif

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    Re: Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

    Quote Originally Posted by borg69unimatrix View Post
    ♪♫ In 1814 I took a little trip - Along the Colonel Jackson down the Mighty Mississip. ♪♫ I took a little bacon and I took a little beans ♫♪


    ...I forgot how the rest went.
    And lots of guns and ammo...and drove the Injuns off and took all the land.....

    Is that it?

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