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  1. #51
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    Re: National Mall Open to Illegal Aliens, Closed to WWII Vets

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    I am very curious and I would like a direct response to the following question: do you seriously think that Obama did that - let's assume for the purpose of argument that he did - SPECIFICALLY with the goal of hurting "as many people as he could"? That the president of the United States is so petulant and malicious that his goal now that he's being bullied by republicans is to deliberately hurt regular folks out of spite?

    I know how you right wingers get carried away with your dumb poisonous rhetoric but the above IS what you said and I'm gonna hold you to an answer.
    I think Republicans frequently presume this behavior from Democrats because it's the behavior they engage in... and they see us as merely coinflips of themselves.

    Anyone hurt in any way by the shutdown has suffered because of the Republican party's decision to make this public spectacle over opposing Obamacare or--- now that they've moved on from that topic-- "too much/too big government" in general, but they're happy to turn around and pick out selective people who have been hurt from the shutdown and blame Obama for it.

    I think they're engaging in what they presume we'd be doing if the situation were reversed. But that's why Republicans fundamentally don't "get" Democrats or progressives, and why they don't "get it" when we talk about their having a small tent. They only see things through their own lens-- people do the same things as them, for the same reasons, for the same self-interest. Republicans only caring about the financial interests or welfare of white males or the wealthy or corporations is completely fine--- because "The Democrats just do the same thing for blacks and nonwhites." That's how I truly believe many of them see it, and it's why they don't get it.

  2. #52
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    Re: National Mall Open to Illegal Aliens, Closed to WWI Vets

    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post
    According to Current.org, the Corporation for Public Broadcasting’s fiscal 2014 appropriation was “forward-funded” during the 2012 appropriations cycle. Thus, the appropriation delivered on October 1st was not a part of the federal budget that is currently unfunded as a result of the government shutdown.
    It says the SAME thing in the very LINK he provided!!

    I have never seen someone who not only REFUSES to process any information that varies from the "Talking point" of the day that he protects like a dog with a bone but who also WILLFULLY and CONSISTENTLY misrepresents the content of the links he posts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Yeah, the benefits that Obama was playing politics with -- to hurt as many people as he could.
    That's it, right there. It makes no difference that I was able to provide information to him or that everybody else in THE WORLD now knows the same information concerning the death benefits and the advance warning Congress was given.

    The death benefits were GOING to be paid until OBAMA personally cut them off to fuck the military because he only became president so he could destroy America. That's it. Nothing else penetrates cuz THAT'S the story Springer has decided to believe. Facts???? Who NEEDS em!

  3. #53

    Re: National Mall Open to Illegal Aliens, Closed to WWII Vets

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    I am very curious and I would like a direct response to the following question: do you seriously think that Obama did that - let's assume for the purpose of argument that he did - SPECIFICALLY with the goal of hurting "as many people as he could"? That the president of the United States is so petulant and malicious that his goal now that he's being bullied by republicans is to deliberately hurt regular folks out of spite?

    I know how you right wingers get carried away with your dumb poisonous rhetoric but the above IS what you said and I'm gonna hold you to an answer.
    There have been dozens of federal government shutdown through the years. This is the first time that open air monuments and memorials have ever been closed. Not only were they closed but barriers put up, guards were put in place, and people threatened with arrest if they crossed the barriers.

    Traffic cones were placed on state highways to keep people from viewing monuments like Mount Rushmore. How insane is that?

    To answer your question if I think Obama is so petulant and malicious that he would do something like this ... I think he is .. maybe not telling to do specific acts in exact words, but in his role as administration leader giving guidance to his staff. People follow the direction of their managers.

    There is no other reason why the Obama Administration was so selective in what they cut and what they didn't cut. Spending money to put up barriers in front of always-open memorials, cutting off benefits for surviving families of those killed in war while giving the Corporation for Public Broadcasting almost 1/2 billion dollars after the shut-down started is reason to see that there was a plan to hurt ones that he wanted to hurt while helping himself and others with like-minded agendas.

    If you were paying attention the nasty rhetoric in DC has been coming from President Obama and DC democrats. President Obama set a new low by calling republicans names that he can't even call enemies of the United States. He's disgraced the office.

    Call me all the nasty names you want Rolyo, it doesn't bother me. It's the typical ploy of liberals when they attack conservatives. I've heard of it all before ... Eisenhower was a do-nothing grandfather, Goldwater was a warmonger, Reagan was stupid, Bush 41 was a wimp, Bush 43 was stupid. The way I see it with your nasty verbiage I'm in great company.

  4. #54
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    Re: National Mall Open to Illegal Aliens, Closed to WWII Vets

    Reagan was…unsubstantial and losing his mind even then. Bush 41 waffled a bit, but was generally competent. Mini Bush was the greatest buffoon imaginable, who reduced US influence abroad by probably 80% due to the damage he caused by his unparalleled mixture of arrogance and incompetence, and from which the US still has to work to recover. Health care has helped people recognise your country as better than they feared, and the Republicans are trying to undermine that. Voting them out, and getting rid of the Tea Party would help for starters.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  5. #55
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    Re: National Mall Open to Illegal Aliens, Closed to WWII Vets

    Jack, I agree this obstreperousness has to stop. Fancy pulling a Herbert Hoover and calling in the Army to maim and restore order? Only this time forget the Mall; go after the House.

  6. #56
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    Re: National Mall Open to Illegal Aliens, Closed to WWII Vets

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    There is no other reason why the Obama Administration was so selective in what they cut and what they didn't cut. .... cutting off benefits for surviving families of those killed in war while giving the Corporation for Public Broadcasting almost 1/2 billion dollars after the shut-down started is reason to see that there was a plan to hurt ones that he wanted to hurt while helping himself and others with like-minded agendas.
    You were accused of deliberately misrepresenting the sources you use -- this proves it. It has been pointed out in both those sources and others that Obama didn't make those decisions! The Pentagon told Congress ahead of time that those benefits would be cut by a shutdown -- because they're not on the "essentials" list -- and the money for CPB was already scheduled and not part of the budget affected by the shutdown.

    Do you get it yet?

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  7. #57
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: National Mall Open to Illegal Aliens, Closed to WWII Vets

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    There have been dozens of federal government shutdown through the years. This is the first time that open air monuments and memorials have ever been closed. Not only were they closed but barriers put up, guards were put in place, and people threatened with arrest if they crossed the barriers.

    Traffic cones were placed on state highways to keep people from viewing monuments like Mount Rushmore. How insane is that?

    To answer your question if I think Obama is so petulant and malicious that he would do something like this ... I think he is .. maybe not telling to do specific acts in exact words, but in his role as administration leader giving guidance to his staff. People follow the direction of their managers.

    There is no other reason why the Obama Administration was so selective in what they cut and what they didn't cut. Spending money to put up barriers in front of always-open memorials, cutting off benefits for surviving families of those killed in war while giving the Corporation for Public Broadcasting almost 1/2 billion dollars after the shut-down started is reason to see that there was a plan to hurt ones that he wanted to hurt while helping himself and others with like-minded agendas.

    If you were paying attention the nasty rhetoric in DC has been coming from President Obama and DC democrats. President Obama set a new low by calling republicans names that he can't even call enemies of the United States. He's disgraced the office.

    Call me all the nasty names you want Rolyo, it doesn't bother me. It's the typical ploy of liberals when they attack conservatives. I've heard of it all before ... Eisenhower was a do-nothing grandfather, Goldwater was a warmonger, Reagan was stupid, Bush 41 was a wimp, Bush 43 was stupid. The way I see it with your nasty verbiage I'm in great company.
    I haven't called you names, other than "right winger" which SHOULD be an insult but I assume you don't consider it to be one.

    I do however find your thought process deeply suspect. To think that someone who has gotten to be the leader of one of the greatest powers in the world, does things that impact the whole country out of childish spite is... well, childish. It's sad that political discourse has degenerated to calling the president a meanie. Shows how utterly deadbrained the tea party message is.

  8. #58

    Re: National Mall Open to Illegal Aliens, Closed to WWI Vets

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    In reality, since the House has refused to provide funding for the government unless their appeasement demands are met, Obama could have shut down everything.
    At least we are in agreement that the choice of what to shut down lies with the President. When the government entirely runs out of money, Congress will be at fault. Until then choosing to shut some things down is Obama's decision.

  9. #59
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    Re: National Mall Open to Illegal Aliens, Closed to WWII Vets

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    You were accused of deliberately misrepresenting the sources you use -- this proves it. It has been pointed out in both those sources and others that Obama didn't make those decisions! The Pentagon told Congress ahead of time that those benefits would be cut by a shutdown -- because they're not on the "essentials" list -- and the money for CPB was already scheduled and not part of the budget affected by the shutdown.

    Do you get it yet?
    Well noted.

  10. #60

    Re: National Mall Open to Illegal Aliens, Closed to WWII Vets

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    You were accused of deliberately misrepresenting the sources you use -- this proves it. It has been pointed out in both those sources and others that Obama didn't make those decisions! The Pentagon told Congress ahead of time that those benefits would be cut by a shutdown -- because they're not on the "essentials" list -- and the money for CPB was already scheduled and not part of the budget affected by the shutdown.

    Do you get it yet?
    Of course Obama's not responsible. He only is responsible for good things. Just ask him.

  11. #61

    Re: National Mall Open to Illegal Aliens, Closed to WWII Vets

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    I haven't called you names, other than "right winger" which SHOULD be an insult but I assume you don't consider it to be one.

    I do however find your thought process deeply suspect. To think that someone who has gotten to be the leader of one of the greatest powers in the world, does things that impact the whole country out of childish spite is... well, childish. It's sad that political discourse has degenerated to calling the president a meanie. Shows how utterly deadbrained the tea party message is.
    You called me 'dumb' in the post with the question and in this post you call me 'childish' and gave the impression that I'm also 'deadbrained.'

    The President is the one who is calling people names. Listen to any of his speeches during the last month and you'll see and hear the hatred.

  12. #62
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    Re: National Mall Open to Illegal Aliens, Closed to WWII Vets

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    There have been dozens of federal government shutdown through the years. This is the first time that open air monuments and memorials have ever been closed. Not only were they closed but barriers put up, guards were put in place, and people threatened with arrest if they crossed the barriers.

    Traffic cones were placed on state highways to keep people from viewing monuments like Mount Rushmore. How insane is that?

    To answer your question if I think Obama is so petulant and malicious that he would do something like this ... I think he is .. maybe not telling to do specific acts in exact words, but in his role as administration leader giving guidance to his staff. People follow the direction of their managers.

    There is no other reason why the Obama Administration was so selective in what they cut and what they didn't cut. Spending money to put up barriers in front of always-open memorials, cutting off benefits for surviving families of those killed in war while giving the Corporation for Public Broadcasting almost 1/2 billion dollars after the shut-down started is reason to see that there was a plan to hurt ones that he wanted to hurt while helping himself and others with like-minded agendas.

    If you were paying attention the nasty rhetoric in DC has been coming from President Obama and DC democrats. President Obama set a new low by calling republicans names that he can't even call enemies of the United States. He's disgraced the office.

    Call me all the nasty names you want Rolyo, it doesn't bother me. It's the typical ploy of liberals when they attack conservatives. I've heard of it all before ... Eisenhower was a do-nothing grandfather, Goldwater was a warmonger, Reagan was stupid, Bush 41 was a wimp, Bush 43 was stupid. The way I see it with your nasty verbiage I'm in great company.
    So are you saying that you identify with the qualities you have noted about the 5 men you've cited above?

  13. #63
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    Re: National Mall Open to Illegal Aliens, Closed to WWII Vets

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    So are you saying that you identify with the qualities you have noted about the 5 men you've cited above?
    Well I wouldn't. But I would note that you are pretty good at slagging people off as well. The fact is Jack...you don't like it now when the President is calling the childish and obstructionist T-Baggers out. But who cares? They have hurled more abuse at this man than we've seen in decades. If I were your president, I'd probably use a few other choice words to describe the cynical and wilfully ignorant and destructive ideologues who are wreaking havoc with the reputation and the credibility of the US around the world. You do realize for instance that everyone in the rest of the civilized world who have single payer, government run healthcare at a lower cost and with better overall outcomes are appalled at the inability of the US to move forward on this issue?

  14. #64
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    Re: National Mall Open to Illegal Aliens, Closed to WWII Vets

    I'm not in full agreement with Jack, and he goes too far at times but while it is true the CPB is budgeted separately, and thus really isn't a part of the funding that has been stopped during this shut down it's a mistake even CBS news highlighted in an article about spending priorities during this shutdown. Jack was mistaken about CPB, but accusing him of deliberate misinformation when it is true that there has been a selective manipulation on priorities by the Administration on this whole funding thing... the shutdown of the parks and National Mall in particular.. just shows some Jubbers don't care all about intellectual honesty if they feel they are on the "noble" SIDE.

    And as for Rolyo85, this President can take some insults.... no doubt you'd never feel as you do about respecting the President and the office of the Presidency if it were George W, George HW or Ronald Reagan being dissed rather than the Wizard of O, who IS a flim flam man just like the Wizard of Oz of the Frank Baum book. Obviously likening him to Hitler as some of those on the right, or touching on his race is undisputedly wrong and out of bounds. Yet he does deserve MUCH criticism, as much from liberals as the more familiar opposition from the right. He's a man, not a demigod.
    Last edited by opinterph; October 12th, 2013 at 07:22 AM. Reason: corrected spelling of member screen name
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  15. #65
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    Re: National Mall Open to Illegal Aliens, Closed to WWII Vets

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Of course Obama's not responsible. He only is responsible for good things. Just ask him.
    Would you care to reply to my post?

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  16. #66
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    Re: National Mall Open to Illegal Aliens, Closed to WWII Vets

    Quote Originally Posted by Sausy View Post
    Jack was mistaken about CPB, but accusing him of deliberate misinformation when it is true that there has been a selective manipulation on priorities by the Administration on this whole funding thing...
    Sausy we've sat here and looked at cite after cite after cite after cite offered which is purported to show this and unless I missed one we're yet to see that Obama's Administration has somehow, with the power to do/fund otherwise, intentionally chosen to shut down anything just to be manipulative. Accusation has been made repeatedly such as with the death benefits and it is always something the office of the President doesn't have any power to personally keep funding over the heads of Congress.

    Not to mention the fact that Congress and Boehner could have signed any sort of deal they wanted to keep funding this or keep funding that throughout the shutdown-- and didn't. The blame for almost *anything* that is presently shutdown going to Obama is simple partisanship on the part of you or anyone else implying it. The people who had the actual power to either avoid this shutdown altogether, or to make sure more things that pure essentials were funded through the shutdown, were your fellow Republicans in the House.

    the shutdown of the parks and National Mall in particular.. just shows some Jubbers don't care all about intellectual honesty if they feel they are on the "noble" SIDE
    It shows that you're listening to some idiotic talking point and focusing on a complete distraction tactic seeing as how you have no ability whatsoever to show that parks are an essential government service that the Office of the President is responsible for, and has the power, to keep privately funding during a government shutdown without any stipulation or resolution from Congress to do so.

    The fact that with hundreds of thousands of people out of work/benefits/pay at the moment, you or any Republican would have the gall to keep repeatedly bringing up the fact that parks are shutdown as if that's the biggest issue worth mentioning really does show something about intellectual honesty.

  17. #67
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: National Mall Open to Illegal Aliens, Closed to WWII Vets

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Of course Obama's not responsible. He only is responsible for good things. Just ask him.
    Immature sarcasm doesn't actually hide the fact that he's correct and you aren't.

  18. #68
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: National Mall Open to Illegal Aliens, Closed to WWII Vets

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    You called me 'dumb' in the post with the question and in this post you call me 'childish' and gave the impression that I'm also 'deadbrained.'

    The President is the one who is calling people names. Listen to any of his speeches during the last month and you'll see and hear the hatred.
    False. All these qualifications are directed at your posts, not you. Though I see how you might get confused.

  19. #69
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: National Mall Open to Illegal Aliens, Closed to WWII Vets

    Quote Originally Posted by Sausy View Post
    I'm not in full agreement with Jack, and he goes too far at times but while it is true the CPB is budgeted separately, and thus really isn't a part of the funding that has been stopped during this shut down it's a mistake even CBS news highlighted in an article about spending priorities during this shutdown. Jack was mistaken about CPB, but accusing him of deliberate misinformation when it is true that there has been a selective manipulation on priorities by the Administration on this whole funding thing... the shutdown of the parks and National Mall in particular.. just shows some Jubbers don't care all about intellectual honesty if they feel they are on the "noble" SIDE.

    And as for Rolyo85, this President can take some insults.... no doubt you'd never feel as you do about respecting the President and the office of the Presidency if it were George W, George HW or Ronald Reagan being dissed rather than the Wizard of O, who IS a flim flam man just like the Wizard of Oz of the Frank Baum book. Obviously likening him to Hitler as some of those on the right, or touching on his race is undisputedly wrong and out of bounds. Yet he does deserve MUCH criticism, as much from liberals as the more familiar opposition from the right. He's a man, not a demigod.
    I believe that the office of the president always deserves respect, whether the current person occupying it does or not. I have no respect for Bush but I wouldn't have called him names while I be was in office, that's a fact.

    Ann Coulter called Obama A RETARD. And this is just one of hundreds of examples. Every time one of your guys (and yes, despite your disassociations from them, I do consider you a right winger) says something demented like that, you either start looking for ways to defend him, or reasons for why he specifically "doesn't" count. There's absolutely no responsibility taken for the tone this party uses. Just like the petulant child Jack thinks his president is.

  20. #70

    Re: National Mall Open to Illegal Aliens, Closed to WWII Vets

    Obama called republicans terrorists ... he can't even call the real terrorists by that name.

  21. #71

    Re: National Mall Open to Illegal Aliens, Closed to WWII Vets

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Obama called republicans terrorists ... he can't even call the real terrorists by that name.
    The republicans are terrorists. President Obama was accurate with his description.

  22. #72

    Re: National Mall Open to Illegal Aliens, Closed to WWII Vets

    That's uncalled for bob. We are all Americans. The demagoguery like you just expressed goes no where to solving our problems as a country.

  23. #73
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    Re: National Mall Open to Illegal Aliens, Closed to WWII Vets

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    That's uncalled for bob. We are all Americans. The demagoguery like you just expressed goes no where to solving our problems as a country.
    Jack, do you know how many times I hear people like Sarah Palin and the far right talk about "real America" and then talk about my state like we're the left testicle of Europe?

  24. #74
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    Re: National Mall Open to Illegal Aliens, Closed to WWII Vets

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    That's uncalled for bob. We are all Americans. The demagoguery like you just expressed goes no where to solving our problems as a country.
    Seriously, the nerve...

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