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  1. #151

    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    It's been leaked from HHS to The Daily Mail that about 50,000 people signed up in the first week. No number available for those who signed up on the healthcare.gov website or each state.

  2. #152
    JUB Addict T-Rexx's Avatar
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    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Sure it is. What market-based approaches can do is limited, but they can make a difference. First would be breaking the AMA's monopoly on the supply of doctors, second would be encouraging not-for-profit insurance. Both would reduce medical care costs.
    No, it's not. When you are experiencing chest pain, you don't go to the hospital 30 miles away which is having a special on myocardial infarctions. When your doctor refers you to a specialist, you don't shop for the one with the best price. When you need an antibiotic, you don't comparison-shop the various available antibiotics and select the one with the best cost/benefit ratio for you - you just fill what your doctor prescribed. Etc., etc., etc.

    And the AMA does not control the supply of doctors in the United States. The supply is controlled by individual states, based on their finances (and, these days, also by immigration). The AMA has no input into this process whatsoever. But, either way, it is not market forces controlling the supply of physicians.

    Very little about the medical industry is driven by traditional market forces. That's how it has managed to careen out of control in the first place. And it is not regulation of the markets which will reign it in.

  3. #153
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Sure it is. What market-based approaches can do is limited, but they can make a difference. First would be breaking the AMA's monopoly on the supply of doctors, second would be encouraging not-for-profit insurance. Both would reduce medical care costs.
    There needs to be a standard-setting body to ensure doctors are qualified. I think a better alternative might be investigating for signs of "regulatory capture." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture

    It is possible that the system is working to limit the supply of doctors. It is just the duty of regulators to push in the other direction.

    Alberta quite stupidly balanced its budget in the 1990's by cutting half the medical school positions through restrictions on university budgets. Then it complained about the soaring cost of medical care and doctor shortages as the effects of the earlier policy choice took hold. I have some experience, and therefore some sympathy, with the notion of an artificial shortage of doctors having a predictably negative effect on health care affordability. However I really think "regulatory capture" is what's at play. T-rexx is right about the market not offering a solution:

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    No, it's not. When you are experiencing chest pain, you don't go to the hospital 30 miles away which is having a special on myocardial infarctions. When your doctor refers you to a specialist, you don't shop for the one with the best price. When you need an antibiotic, you don't comparison-shop the various available antibiotics and select the one with the best cost/benefit ratio for you - you just fill what your doctor prescribed. Etc., etc., etc.

    And the AMA does not control the supply of doctors in the United States. The supply is controlled by individual states, based on their finances (and, these days, also by immigration). The AMA has no input into this process whatsoever. But, either way, it is not market forces controlling the supply of physicians.

    Very little about the medical industry is driven by traditional market forces. That's how it has managed to careen out of control in the first place. And it is not regulation of the markets which will reign it in.
    Thank you. All good points. Still chuckling about the two-for-one myocardial infarctions. Discount thoracic surgery? Dr. Nick Riviera was a joke…
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  4. #154

    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    This is the company that designed the Democare website.

    They're CANADIANS!!!!!!!

    http://www.cgi.com/en

  5. #155
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    ^ Rareboy, explain your people. Are they keeping the site offline for Jack?

  6. #156
    ecce homo rareboy's Avatar
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    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    ^ The real plot is to make Americans so frustrated that they finally wake up and smell the coffee and demand a single payer system. Like the rest of the civilized western nations have. You just caught us out.

  7. #157
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    ^ The real plot is to make Americans so frustrated that they finally wake up and smell the Tim Hortons coffee and demand a single payer system. Like the rest of the civilized western nations have. You just caught us out.
    I agree, it's a travesty that we don't have that.

  8. #158

    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    Why didn't the dem's pass a social health care system when they controlled it all?

  9. #159
    Virginia Is for Lovers Alnitak's Avatar
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    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Why didn't the dem's pass a social health care system when they controlled it all?
    Because Scott Brown was elected before they could muscle Ben Nelson on a public option.

    If Ted Kennedy hadn't died, we would have real government funded or subsidized universal care like every other god damn developed country in the world.
    Last edited by Alnitak; October 11th, 2013 at 03:15 PM.

  10. #160

    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    The democrats controlled it all, but still don't want to take the blame.

  11. #161
    JUB Addict T-Rexx's Avatar
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    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Why didn't the dem's pass a social health care system when they controlled it all?
    Because Barack Obama wanted to accommodate the Republican viewpoint on healthcare. He believed he could get support from Republicans if he backed their own plan.

    It is one of his gravest errors.

  12. #162

    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    Bullshit. Obama met privately with large insurance companies where the basic plan was laid out then given to dem's in Congress to build around the Obama's basics. Republicans were not involved.

  13. #163
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    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    Obama's idea of Republicans working with him is to get them on board with what he supports, not give and take. He knew he could NEVER get single payer, at least not at first so this mess was concocted. Some of the specifics of health reform even conservatives can support, but as a whole though "defunding" is a horrible waste screaming loud to the high heavens that we should replace the whole act with something far less unwieldy and heavy handed is not. "Obamacare" wasn't well thought out at all, as if we're going to drastically reform medical care delivery in this country, should have started with respecting the federal system and using the states as laboratories for certain kinds of reform policies. Not develop a one size fits all system full of confusion and laced with exceptions. And gives every incentive for companies to restrict or eliminate their own policies so they can shift workers to these fucked up "exchanges".
    unofficial official mini meet Friday- Saturday April 11-12, 2014

  14. #164
    JUB Addict T-Rexx's Avatar
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    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Bullshit.Republicans were not involved.
    Except, of course, for the fact that Republicans designed Obamacare. You guys even implemented it in Massachusetts.

    You only abandoned it and refused to participate further in its passage when the president agreed with you.

  15. #165
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    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    Quote Originally Posted by Sausy View Post
    Obama's idea of Republicans working with him is to get them on board with what he supports, not give and take. He knew he could NEVER get single payer, at least not at first so this mess was concocted.
    Those two statements are contradictory. First, you state that Obama would not work with Republicans. Then, you state that he could not get the Democratic (single-payer) plan passed, so he was forced to go with the Republican plan.

    You ignore the fact that Obama got rid of the one redeeming feature of Obamcare - the public option - in an attempt to appease Republicans prior to its passage in 2010. You ignore the fact that Obamacare has been successfully amended nineteen times since its passage, every one an attempt to appease Republicans.

    Obamacare was designed by Republicans. It was heavily modified prior to its passage as a result of Republican input. And it has been amended nineteen times to address GOP "concerns." And yet, you contend that "Obama's idea of Republicans working with him is to get them on board with what he supports, not give and take."

    I can't imagine how Obama could have done more to accommodate Republicans. The problem is not that Obama refuses to "give and take." It's that all Obama does with the ACA is give.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sausy View Post
    "Obamacare" wasn't well thought out at all, as if we're going to drastically reform medical care delivery in this country, should have started with respecting the federal system and using the states as laboratories for certain kinds of reform policies.
    You mean, like, trying it out in Massachusetts first, before implementing it on a wider scale?

  16. #166
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    Quote Originally Posted by Sausy View Post
    Obama's idea of Republicans working with him is to get them on board with what he supports, not give and take. He knew he could NEVER get single payer, at least not at first so this mess was concocted. Some of the specifics of health reform even conservatives can support, but as a whole though "defunding" is a horrible waste screaming loud to the high heavens that we should replace the whole act with something far less unwieldy and heavy handed is not. "Obamacare" wasn't well thought out at all, as if we're going to drastically reform medical care delivery in this country, should have started with respecting the federal system and using the states as laboratories for certain kinds of reform policies. Not develop a one size fits all system full of confusion and laced with exceptions. And gives every incentive for companies to restrict or eliminate their own policies so they can shift workers to these fucked up "exchanges".
    Maybe your party should have come to the table in actual good faith and an attempt to govern and give constructive input, instead of merely trying to obstruct the entire process, filibuster it, and then waste taxpayer money calling 42 futile repeal votes. I can't take this kind of commentary seriously when you're defending a party that made absolutely no good faith effort whatsoever to come to the table and govern like adults.

  17. #167

    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    Will Obama fire Sibelius?

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