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  1. #101

    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    The site is still dead this morning.

    The comparison between Apple and Democare is looking less similar.

  2. #102
    Sex God chuck10x's Avatar
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    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    That's because this is still a private, profit-driven, private health insurance-based healthcare system in the U.S.

    That didn't change or start with the ACA. There are still real improvements in this reform, such as the fact that before you could have paid your premiums and then been dropped at any time on the thinnest pretext of claiming something was or could have been pre-existing.
    They still don't want to insure you, but since they have too,You pay more.
    The extra charges also include how old you are, At age 60 you pay double.
    Also price is increased based on where you live and if you smoke add in another $2,662.00
    They are charging for everything they can.
    Aetna has dropped out of of coverage altogether.

  3. #103
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    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    Quote Originally Posted by White Eagle View Post
    A cousin of mine posted this on FB this AM and was wondering if it is true. Of course I see lies lies lies, but this is something the Breitbart, Beck, Fox Snooze or their ilk would say.
    I am wondering if any of you have happened across it. I checked Snopes, FactCheck and Wash Post has a site of false Obamacare news.


    http://thecommonsenseshow.com/category/conspiracy/

    And before I even get the damn thing posted I think I've found the source of it. Another Alex Jones.
    Someone on FB found the snopes link

    http://www.snopes.com/politics/medic...nspections.asp
    BEWARE! Harassing the Indian may result in sudden and severe hair loss.

  4. #104

    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    ^^^

    Who knows. I doubt there is a single person who has read the entire law (still in the the process of being written at the current time) and even more doubtful that any one person could explain what's in the law.

    The the law grows like the IRS code it will totally take over the country.

  5. #105
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    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    The ACA poster boy who said supposedly was the first to get insurance and lauded by the WH lied.

    Typical.

    Lies are just everyday life for Obama and his followers.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...lly-signed-up/
    Once again the article you linked doesn't support your claim.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  6. #106
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    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    Quote Originally Posted by chuck10x View Post
    I have been saying from the beginning since the public option was dropped, There is no such thing as affordable insurance.
    The ACA was based on Romneycare, But, Obama pushed for this and it was passed on on a straight Democratic vote.
    Republicans tried to vote it out 42 times and shut down the Govt. to get rid of it.
    Before we knew the cost, All I have heard is - Thank you President Obama.
    They are still saying it is affordable, But the costs go up simply because I live in Philly, am turning 50 and have a pre-existing condition.
    The more you need it, The more it will cost you.
    Like it or not, Obama and the Democrats own the ACA
    Yes -- and they should be ashamed of themselves for passing a Republican plan.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  7. #107
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    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    Yeah there are amazing portions that most americans agree should be law. Like not being dropped when you get sick like these slimy fucking shithole insurers were doing,
    ********WHY********* in the hell is this absolutely NEVER, NEVER, NEVER mentioned by Democrats or anybody else supporting what is "best a/k/a" Obamacare? I've been paying attention. Truly, I do not hear or see any media, ever, mention that the insurance company can no longer say "We are sorry to see that you have cancer now, Mr. Murray - we're DROPPING YOUR INSURANCE COVERAGE effective immediately, and of course you now have a pre-existing condition and you can never be insured again. Now, would you just go off into a corner and die, please?"

    The real death panels.
    "All legal U. S. residents who are 18 years or older, shall have an unconditional right to vote." - 28th Amendment, US Constitution?
    "But, hey, who cares about women and their rights when the religious liberty of a nationwide chain of arts and crafts stores is at stake?" - Daily Kos, 30 June 2014
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  8. #108
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    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    Quote Originally Posted by frankfrank View Post
    ********WHY********* in the hell is this absolutely NEVER, NEVER, NEVER mentioned by Democrats or anybody else supporting what is "best a/k/a" Obamacare? I've been paying attention. Truly, I do not hear or see any media, ever, mention that the insurance company can no longer say "We are sorry to see that you have cancer now, Mr. Murray - we're DROPPING YOUR INSURANCE COVERAGE effective immediately, and of course you now have a pre-existing condition and you can never be insured again. Now, would you just go off into a corner and die, please?"

    The real death panels.
    I suspect these "advantages" of Obamacare aren't reported much because they aren't real.

    No, you cannot be denied coverage for a pre-existing condition. But, you can be charged through the nose for having a pre-existing condition to the point where you cannot afford the insurance. So how is that different?

    No, your coverage cannot be canceled if you get sick, but your rates can be increased to the point where your insurance is no longer affordable. So, how is that different?

    It is well to remember that Obamacare is mandatory private insurance. The mechanics of how things get done have changed slightly under Obamacare, but it is still the same old private insurance (with all of its tricks and frauds) that we have suffered for decades.

    This is a Republican plan, designed to benefit the insurance industry, not patients.
    Last edited by T-Rexx; October 5th, 2013 at 10:40 PM.

  9. #109
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    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    Quote Originally Posted by t-rexx View Post
    it is well to remember that obamacare is mandatory private insurance. The mechanics of how things get done have changed slightly under obamacare, but it is still the same old private insurance (with all of its tricks and frauds) that we have suffered for decades.

    This is a republican plan, designed to benefit the insurance industry, not patients.
    QFT -- and well said.
    Last edited by Kulindahr; October 5th, 2013 at 11:20 PM.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  10. #110

    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Once again the article you linked doesn't support your claim.
    You need to read it again. The kid didn't buy insurance, he's thinking about it. He said he signed up -- he did not put down any money to purchase insurance.

    And you still promote the lie that democare(tm) is a republican plan. Need I remind you and the others here that it is totally and entirely a democrat plan ... passed by a democrat congress and a democrat president -- not one republican vote.

    Get with reality.

  11. #111
    Sex God chuck10x's Avatar
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    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Yes -- and they should be ashamed of themselves for passing a Republican plan.
    The real question is, Why would Obama, Reid and Pelosi with the support of all the Democrats pass the law?
    Will they be held accountable, or as we find out more pass the blame?
    Knowing the faults, Will they repeal parts of the law?
    The ACA is Obama's signature piece of Legislation, He campaigned on it and spent his first year in office to get it through.

  12. #112
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    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    Quote Originally Posted by chuck10x View Post
    The real question is, Why would Obama, Reid and Pelosi with the support of all the Democrats pass the law?
    Will they be held accountable, or as we find out more pass the blame?
    Knowing the faults, Will they repeal parts of the law?
    The ACA is Obama's signature piece of Legislation, He campaigned on it and spent his first year in office to get it through.
    I think/hope what the gameplan is, is to use the ACA as a framework to build and improve upon. I'm not sure what elements of it need "repealing" specifically, and I don't really know of any that would fix your current predicament.

    I totally agree that we need a real, viable public option or an extension of a medicare type program for all people who are not able to afford insurance, but again, this law is not the reason you don't have that. Republican obstructionism and massive financial incentivizing of that obstruction and misinformation by entities like Aetna is.

    There is a reason Republicans are totally against this law and it's because they are afraid it's going to be the springboard for Americans regarding healthcare the way the rest of the first world does-- as a necessary, morally correct thing for our society to support alongside things like Social Security that, once there, the public won't consent to remove no matter how much small government rhetoric says it should be.

  13. #113
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    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    You need to read it again. The kid didn't buy insurance, he's thinking about it. He said he signed up -- he did not put down any money to purchase insurance.

    And you still promote the lie that democare(tm) is a republican plan. Need I remind you and the others here that it is totally and entirely a democrat plan ... passed by a democrat congress and a democrat president -- not one republican vote.

    Get with reality.
    He did sign up -- he got an account. That's all he told reporters, and they misinterpreted what he said -- that's what the article says.

    I see you insist on ignoring all the evidence that's been given you. The ACA was taken from the Heritage Foundation, and was championed by Newt Gingrich and other Republicans long before the Democrats bowed to Republican pressure and made it a law. That the Republicans then refused to vote for a plan designed by Republicans and amended along the way to make them happy does not make it a Democratic plan; it just shows that Republicans are hypocrites and Democrats are fools.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  14. #114
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    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    I think/hope what the gameplan is, is to use the ACA as a framework to build and improve upon. I'm not sure what elements of it need "repealing" specifically, and I don't really know of any that would fix your current predicament.

    I totally agree that we need a real, viable public option or an extension of a medicare type program for all people who are not able to afford insurance, but again, this law is not the reason you don't have that. Republican obstructionism and massive financial incentivizing of that obstruction and misinformation by entities like Aetna is.

    There is a reason Republicans are totally against this law and it's because they are afraid it's going to be the springboard for Americans regarding healthcare the way the rest of the first world does-- as a necessary, morally correct thing for our society to support alongside things like Social Security that, once there, the public won't consent to remove no matter how much small government rhetoric says it should be.
    Two easy reforms: first, fix the system to provide more doctors, by taking away the AMA's monopoly over medical schools, and funding several dozen new ones; second, provide incentives for not-for-profit, fraternal insurance organizations. With more doctors, costs will come down; with players in the game who aren't making any profit, the other insurance companies will have to reduce prices in order to compete.

    Then levy a 0.01% tax on all financial transactions over $100k, to better fund the system (and Medicare and Medicaid; such a tax could pay for all three and have bucks left over to drop on the debt).

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  15. #115

    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    He did sign up -- he got an account. That's all he told reporters, and they misinterpreted what he said -- that's what the article says.

    I see you insist on ignoring all the evidence that's been given you. The ACA was taken from the Heritage Foundation, and was championed by Newt Gingrich and other Republicans long before the Democrats bowed to Republican pressure and made it a law. That the Republicans then refused to vote for a plan designed by Republicans and amended along the way to make them happy does not make it a Democratic plan; it just shows that Republicans are hypocrites and Democrats are fools.
    He didn't sign up for insurance. He signed up for an account on the website. Huge difference.

    Not going to listen your rubbish anymore about how the PPACA was made into law by republicans. Spin all your want.

  16. #116
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    He didn't sign up for insurance. He signed up for an account on the website. Huge difference.

    Not going to listen your rubbish anymore about how the PPACA was made into law by republicans. Spin all your want.
    No one said "it was made into law by Republicans." It was, however, a Republican-proposed healthcare reform that Democrats adopted in order to get a reform through filibuster and Republicans voted against it anyway.

  17. #117
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    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    He didn't sign up for insurance. He signed up for an account on the website. Huge difference.
    And that's what he told them, so there was no lie.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Not going to listen your rubbish anymore about how the PPACA was made into law by republicans. Spin all your want.
    Another lie from Jack -- and it's a blatant one, because it directly contradicts what I wrote, that you're responding to. Seriously, do you even have the capacity to not turn other people's statements into things you have a quick answer for? This lying about what others have posted is a regular habit of yours.

    NO ONE here has ever claimed that " the PPACA was made into law by republicans" -- that's your lie, invented by you. You keep responding to that lie, instead of to what people have actually written. So that's not merely "rubbish" "[you] won't listen to any more", it's something you've never listened to because no one here has said it.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  18. #118

    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    I think an apology and retraction is due from those who said the ACA website was up and running and that people were buying insurance at that site.

    We now know the website is broken and cannot handle requests -- not by being overloaded but by poor and rapid design and inability to stay up.

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    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    I think an apology and retraction is due from those who said the ACA website was up and running and that people were buying insurance at that site.

    We now know the website is broken and cannot handle requests -- not by being overloaded but by poor and rapid design and inability to stay up.
    The only evidence we have says that in a few states there are major problems but that overall it is working as well as any on-line effort of the kind could work right out of the gate. We also know that hundreds of thousands of people have already established accounts and those people are examining the options in front of them.

    I've dropped in there nearly two dozen times and have yet to have a single problem, as have many others, so we know the website isn't broken -- and those hundreds of thousands of accounts established prove the same thing.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  20. #120
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    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    ^The website HAS been broken for me...

    I was FINALLY able to actually ESTABLISH my account and peruse options last Sunday...

    It APPEARS that the insurance options available to me, as Chuck10x observed, is overpriced and underwhelming...

    This doesn't TOTALLY surprise me -- since I live in Georgia -- and they've declare OPEN WARFARE on this legislation...

    But it WAS disappointing...

    It was QUITE obvious that I'll need to spend MANY hours calculating the math to figure out WHICH plan is BEST suited for me...

    Insurance doesn't play on a level playing field -- they hire HUNDREDS of actuaries to formulate plans that will "trick" consumers...

    Oh -- and I planned on starting my mathematical work today -- but, for SOME reason, GEORGIA plans are NO LONGER available on the website...

    "Whatever you do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius and power and magic in it..." Goethe

  21. #121

    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    The only evidence we have says that in a few states there are major problems but that overall it is working as well as any on-line effort of the kind could work right out of the gate. We also know that hundreds of thousands of people have already established accounts and those people are examining the options in front of them.

    I've dropped in there nearly two dozen times and have yet to have a single problem, as have many others, so we know the website isn't broken -- and those hundreds of thousands of accounts established prove the same thing.
    Hiding your brain in the sand again.

    Here's one of the high priest of liberalism interviewing kitty hat.

    http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...-a-stupid-man/

    The website is a mess -- not ready. Any business in the world would take the site down and have a serious discussion about the validity of the program.

    You have no factual basis for making a statement that "We also know that hundreds of thousands of people have already established accounts and those people are examining the options in front of them" because the Administration will not release any information regarding use. Your making stuff up.

  22. #122

    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    Quote Originally Posted by swerve View Post
    ^The website HAS been broken for me...

    I was FINALLY able to actually ESTABLISH my account and peruse options last Sunday...

    It APPEARS that the insurance options available to me, as Chuck10x observed, is overpriced and underwhelming...

    This doesn't TOTALLY surprise me -- since I live in Georgia -- and they've declare OPEN WARFARE on this legislation...

    But it WAS disappointing...

    It was QUITE obvious that I'll need to spend MANY hours calculating the math to figure out WHICH plan is BEST suited for me...

    Insurance doesn't play on a level playing field -- they hire HUNDREDS of actuaries to formulate plans that will "trick" consumers...

    Oh -- and I planned on starting my mathematical work today -- but, for SOME reason, GEORGIA plans are NO LONGER available on the website...

    After having the site down over the weekend -- my understanding is that they are shutting it down again tonight.

  23. #123
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    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Hiding your brain in the sand again.

    Here's one of the high priest of liberalism interviewing kitty hat.

    http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...-a-stupid-man/

    The website is a mess -- not ready. Any business in the world would take the site down and have a serious discussion about the validity of the program.

    You have no factual basis for making a statement that "We also know that hundreds of thousands of people have already established accounts and those people are examining the options in front of them" because the Administration will not release any information regarding use. Your making stuff up.
    Maybe your state is running a crappy unreliable site on purpose in protest of the law.

    The site continues to work fine for me.

  24. #124

    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    Maybe some state sites are working -- but we are talking about the Obamacare, Democare, ACA, PPACA website.

  25. #125
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    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    You have no factual basis for making a statement that "We also know that hundreds of thousands of people have already established accounts and those people are examining the options in front of them" because the Administration will not release any information regarding use. Your making stuff up.
    So you're assuming that your own source is lying.

    Interesting.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  26. #126
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    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Maybe some state sites are working -- but we are talking about the Obamacare, Democare, ACA, PPACA website.
    I was just there -- no problems.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  27. #127
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    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    Quote Originally Posted by swerve View Post
    It APPEARS that the insurance options available to me, as Chuck10x observed, is overpriced and underwhelming...
    Yes, exactly.

    People are not accustomed to pricing insurance plans (especially not without some degree of employer contribution), so it is possible that you would find the pricing even worse without the exchanges. But, these plans are nevertheless expensive, and the coverage is not very good. They are far, far from the universal coverage for every citizen for every disease enjoyed by virtually every other nation in the developed world.


    Quote Originally Posted by swerve View Post
    It was QUITE obvious that I'll need to spend MANY hours calculating the math to figure out WHICH plan is BEST suited for me...

    Insurance doesn't play on a level playing field -- they hire HUNDREDS of actuaries to formulate plans that will "trick" consumers...
    Yes. Another problem with Obamacare. These are private plans, designed by companies which could not care less about your health. Their interest is in making money. They are therefore deliberately complicated, and designed to conceal many costs. There are surcharges for preexisting conditions and your rates will go up if you get sick. Many diseases are not covered (if you happen to suffer from a disease that insurance companies don't like, you are out of luck - even though you have spent a fortune on insurance).

    70% of American bankruptcies occur because someone in the family got sick. Obamacare will not change that. American lives will continue to be destroyed by our national inability to deal with our healthcare problems.

    It is well to remember that Obamacare was designed by the Heritage Foundation to benefit businesses, not people. It is better than doing nothing at all, but only slightly. Everyone says that it can be "fixed" in time, but that is not true, of course. We will continue to be stuck with mediocre, expensive health care for the rest of our lives.
    Last edited by T-Rexx; October 8th, 2013 at 09:59 PM.

  28. #128

    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    So you're assuming that your own source is lying.

    Interesting.
    Wacko!!!!


  29. #129
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    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    Yes. Another problem with Obamacare. These are private plans, designed by companies which could not care less about your health. Their interest is in making money. They are therefore deliberately complicated, and designed to conceal many costs. There are surcharges for preexisting conditions and your rates will go up if you get sick. Many diseases are not covered (if you happen to suffer from a disease that insurance companies don't like, you are out of luck - even though you have spent a fortune on insurance).

    70% of American bankruptcies occur because someone in the family got sick. Obamacare will not change that. American lives will continue to be destroyed by our national inability to deal with our healthcare problems.

    It is well to remember that Obamacare was designed by the Heritage Foundation to benefit businesses, not people. It is better than doing nothing at all, but only slightly. Everyone says that it can be "fixed" in time, but that is not true, of course. We will continue to be stuck with mediocre, expensive health care for the rest of our lives.
    Maybe, maybe not. The fact that most people will be getting insurance they can't afford to use will keep the complaint stream at flood stage.

    We can hope that this will lead Republicans to actually introduce some market-based remedies (e.g. more medical schools, immediate-care clinics, not-for-profit fraternal benefit companies), but with the Tea Partites in the mix nothing is going to pass that any significant number of Democrats like.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  30. #130
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    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Wacko!!!!
    Don't even know what I'm talking about, do you?

    Sad.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  31. #131
    JUB Addict cgymike's Avatar
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    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    Jack: are you covered by a personal health care plan or through work or do you have none?

    A follow up on your ONLY useful post IMO in this thread


    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    I want to see what it offers. I'm curious. Aren't you curious about things? I want to see the pricing and what is covered. I want to compare.
    Last edited by opinterph; October 9th, 2013 at 03:54 PM. Reason: fixed quote tags
    Your post comments are forwarded to the CIA.

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    JUB Addict cgymike's Avatar
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    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Don't even know what I'm talking about, do you?

    Sad.
    Takes 2 to tango...why aid kuli in derailing this thread? What for?
    Your post comments are forwarded to the CIA.

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    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    Quote Originally Posted by cgymike View Post
    Takes 2 to tango...why aid kuli in derailing this thread? What for?
    Cause your interpersonal commentary is on topic?

  34. #134
    JUB Addict cgymike's Avatar
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    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    Cause your interpersonal commentary is on topic?
    You are right ...I need to pm about that and so should kuli. Scuse me for playing mod I guess!

    Returning to on-topic

    Wash site is UP and mostly functional as of today. personally, since I only need insurance until 01 june 2014 (returning to Canada then) it maybe tough to see how to enroll to get enhancements over the temp that I have..

    But, I am interested in Jack's personal health insurance story and hopefully we can get some colour on that...
    Your post comments are forwarded to the CIA.

  35. #135
    JUB Addict cgymike's Avatar
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    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    Quote Originally Posted by White Eagle View Post
    I heard 5million people went there and registered. That alone says people like the law.
    Like may be a strong word since compliance is involved...that's an amazing number though!

    Maybe Like through the obamacare FB page would be more of an indication?

    What's the enrollment like around CC?
    Your post comments are forwarded to the CIA.

  36. #136

    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    Quote Originally Posted by cgymike View Post
    Jack: are you covered by a personal health care plan or through work or do you have none?

    A follow up on your ONLY useful post IMO in this thread


    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    I want to see what it offers. I'm curious. Aren't you curious about things? I want to see the pricing and what is covered. I want to compare.
    Aren't you curious about the pricing and coverage? There's no way for me to know at this time. The site does not work. I'm a consumer like you -- I want to make the best decisions on how I spend my money.

    At some time I hope the site works and I'll be able to look without giving them my personal information while I shop.

    Wolf Blitzer even says that the law should be delayed.

    Last edited by opinterph; October 9th, 2013 at 03:56 PM. Reason: fixed quote tags in quoted text

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    JUB Addict cgymike's Avatar
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    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    ^Yes I am curious about pricing and duration of coverage and if they have a temp insurance for non-citizens like myself. From my na´ve standpoint it's still a good idea to get coverage to more people than less. I don't know about legal aspects. I asked you for your personal view on this taking into account you personal insurance situation. So once again...are you coved at work or do you take out private insurance already? Or...

    See what I'm asking. I don't know you...I have no input into your posting history here just asking as of now and in the now.

    Is it so difficult for you to answer my question. I'm not asking for you social insurance number or what have you.
    Your post comments are forwarded to the CIA.

  38. #138
    Virtus in medio stat JUB Admin opinterph's Avatar
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    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    Members are not required to answer personal questions.

  39. #139
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    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    ^In that case the request is withdrawn. My participation in this thread is also concluded.
    Your post comments are forwarded to the CIA.

  40. #140

    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    At this time we's spent $634,320,919 on the healthcare.gov website.

    A site that is not working.

    http://www.digitaltrends.com/opinion...-website-cost/

  41. #141
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    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Maybe, maybe not. The fact that most people will be getting insurance they can't afford to use will keep the complaint stream at flood stage.
    This is the greatest threat to Obamacare. If many people discover they are paying a lot for nothing, they are likely to complain, and complain bitterly. People may increasingly just opt out of the system and pay the fine, which will make the system unsustainable.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    We can hope that this will lead Republicans to actually introduce some market-based remedies (e.g. more medical schools, immediate-care clinics, not-for-profit fraternal benefit companies), but with the Tea Partites in the mix nothing is going to pass that any significant number of Democrats like.
    The medical industry is not subject to market forces, so it is not possible to introduce "market-based remedies." The people who pay the bills are not (generally) the people utilizing the services. Many providers (like hospitals) enjoy legal monopolies. The decision to purchase medical services is not driven by the consumer's ability to pay, but by the unpredictable onset of disease or accident. Selecting therapies on the basis of their cost is not necessarily medically appropriate. And the "insurance" model of paying for healthcare is fundamentally flawed. Insurance works when the vast majority of people pay a little for catastrophic coverage, but never utilize the service. Almost everyone who pays for healthcare utilizes healthcare services at some point.

    The fundamental problem with Obamacare is that it is an attempt to use markets to control an industry that is largely immune to market forces. That is why national health services in the rest of the developed world have been so much more successful at containing costs than in the United States.

  42. #142
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    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post

    The fundamental problem with Obamacare is that it is an attempt to use markets to control an industry that is largely immune to market forces. That is why national health services in the rest of the developed world have been so much more successful at containing costs than in the United States.

    ...and despite shortcomings, providing a superior service.

  43. #143
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    The medical industry is not subject to market forces, so it is not possible to introduce "market-based remedies." The people who pay the bills are not (generally) the people utilizing the services. Many providers (like hospitals) enjoy legal monopolies. The decision to purchase medical services is not driven by the consumer's ability to pay, but by the unpredictable onset of disease or accident. Selecting therapies on the basis of their cost is not necessarily medically appropriate. And the "insurance" model of paying for healthcare is fundamentally flawed. Insurance works when the vast majority of people pay a little for catastrophic coverage, but never utilize the service. Almost everyone who pays for healthcare utilizes healthcare services at some point.

    The fundamental problem with Obamacare is that it is an attempt to use markets to control an industry that is largely immune to market forces. That is why national health services in the rest of the developed world have been so much more successful at containing costs than in the United States.
    Absolutely agreed about market forces. Ideally, health care should be universal, single payer, nationally funded, with private insurance only covering things like cosmetic surgeries or voodoo experimental stuff like having your head cryogenically frozen when you die.

    However, I don't think the current US system is a mistake. First of all, just by comparison, doctors in Canada are not employees of the government. A medical clinic is a private practice owned by the doctor. Hospitals are run by not-for-profits set up by charitable organisations, or incorporated by the government but by no means a part of it. The difference is, all these private providers send the bill to the government instead of the patient.

    In the States, billing will continue to be a nightmare as insurance companies fight patients over premiums, subsidies, co-pays. But that can be regulated. (and should be, given the imbalance of market forces you point out.) The government used to even regulate what airlines could charge in ticket costs. At that point you'll have essentially a single payer system, and the regulated premiums will essentially be like taxes. So instead of paying income tax to the government as I do, you'd pay an equivalent premium. Instead of a government health department bureaucrat cutting the cheque to the private doctor as I have, the insurance company will cut the cheque to the private doctor.

    So I see this as an evolutionary thing, and that this is a good step.

    BTW you seriously have to get rid of co-payments, or at least reduce them to a tiny percentage. I looked at that web site and it was saying basic insurance only covers 60% of the cost??!! That gets expensive fast.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  44. #144
    Civis Americanus Sum Alnitak's Avatar
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    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    I think it's pretty obvious... sabotaged by a Tea Party hacker

    nvm... can't be that sophisticated

  45. #145
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    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    However, I don't think the current US system is a mistake. First of all, just by comparison, doctors in Canada are not employees of the government. A medical clinic is a private practice owned by the doctor. Hospitals are run by not-for-profits set up by charitable organisations, or incorporated by the government but by no means a part of it. The difference is, all these private providers send the bill to the government instead of the patient.
    All of the national health services of which I am aware, in every developed country, work this way. There is a misperception in the USA that national healthcare systems in developed countries are bureaucracies in which every provider works for the government, which is the only source of healthcare. The reality is that national healthcare systems come much closer to a true market-based economic system than does the heavily socialized system currently operating in the US.


    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    In the States, billing will continue to be a nightmare as insurance companies fight patients over premiums, subsidies, co-pays.
    Yes, this is another problem with Obamacare/private insurance.

    A big reason for the inefficiency of the American system is the need for medical providers to maintain large staffs of billing people who spend their careers fighting insurance companies. And on the other side, insurance companies maintain large staffs of people to fight the providers. It causes long delays in reimbursement to providers, and often draws in the patient, who is typically demanded to pay for services his insurance company has agreed to cover, but is fighting.

    No industry on earth operates with less efficiency than the American healthcare system. It is as bad as commerce gets.


    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    So I see this as an evolutionary thing, and that this is a good step.
    Obamacare is better than doing nothing. Healthcare chews up ~18% of the American economy, about twice as much as any other nation on earth. It is destroying American competitiveness. It gets worse every year. It is absolutely unsustainable.

    But, as an "evolutionary step," Obamacare is a tiny one. It does little to address the underlying problems of American healthcare. And it is unlikely to evolve into a system competitive with current European or Canadian systems within any of our lifetimes.


    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    BTW you seriously have to get rid of co-payments, or at least reduce them to a tiny percentage. I looked at that web site and it was saying basic insurance only covers 60% of the cost??!! That gets expensive fast.
    Yes, exactly. This is what I keep saying.

    Most people are going to go with the less expensive plans, because that is the minimum they will be able to afford. But those plans are worthless. The patients will still be responsible for about 40% the cost of covered services. And a lot of services are not covered at all. The less expensive plans have high deductibles and large copays. All of which means that patients still will not be able to afford healthcare in the United States. Middle class people are being required to pay a great deal of money for no real healthcare coverage at all.

    It is sad that the richest nation on earth is the only developed nation that cannot afford to take care if its people.
    Last edited by T-Rexx; October 10th, 2013 at 06:40 AM.

  46. #146

    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    $634,320,919 on a website that is not working ...it's your money people!

  47. #147
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    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    It should have been tested in a smaller regional setting... frankly the best thing to take the sails out of the "Affordable" Healthcare Act IS fully implementing it and have it implode like it is designed to, unintentionally OR not. But that would do too much damage and proving a point on a scale this huge just would be a disaster. Suffice to say it should have been less broad and ambitious and allow the states to use certain policies in an experimental setting on a smaller, non mandatory scale. Defend affordable health care for all to one's heart's content.. I am not saying this current system is so great. there are MANY problems and access to good health care shouldn't be limited to the wealthy and those covered by the most expansive policies. However this health legislation was doomed for "do not resuscitate" from the start. Republicans may have not widely displayed a fair sense of openness to negotiation about details from the start, but what was come up with has even many loyal supposedly Democratic supporting groups and interests confused, upset and frustrated.
    unofficial official mini meet Friday- Saturday April 11-12, 2014

  48. #148
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    Quote Originally Posted by Sausy View Post
    I am not saying this current system is so great. there are MANY problems and access to good health care shouldn't be limited to the wealthy and those covered by the most expansive policies.
    A slight correction here-- it wasn't just the poor who couldn't get coverage. Diabetics, older people or people with any sort of chronic or preexisting condition were pretty much coverage lepers. Couldn't get it at all, almost regardless of how much they were willing to pay, in the standard market.

  49. #149

    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    A slight correction here-- it wasn't just the poor who couldn't get coverage. Diabetics, older people or people with any sort of chronic or preexisting condition were pretty much coverage lepers. Couldn't get it at all, almost regardless of how much they were willing to pay, in the standard market.
    HA! Tell an insurance company you've had a kidney transplant or skin cancer and see how many beat your door down offing you policies. Thankfully the ACA and President Obama put a stop to the insurance companies predatory ways.

  50. #150
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    Re: And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    The medical industry is not subject to market forces, so it is not possible to introduce "market-based remedies."
    Sure it is. What market-based approaches can do is limited, but they can make a difference. First would be breaking the AMA's monopoly on the supply of doctors, second would be encouraging not-for-profit insurance. Both would reduce medical care costs.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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