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Thread: NSA data mining

  1. #451
    Sex God tigerfan482's Avatar
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    Re: NSA data mining

    Quote Originally Posted by palbert View Post
    From the this started with telegrams department:



    Cost: $10,000,000 /year. or so.

    Sounds cozy, but remarkably similar to parallel construction.

    Historically, though, this is really nothing new: we did it with telegrams and Western Union.
    And I'm sure they sell plenty of phone records with names redacted to other companies willing to pony up money as well. I remember a time when you could pay $8 on a public records site and get someone's social security number, birth date, home address, unlisted numbers, etc. Nothing that isn't solely in your mind is safe or private and it's been that way for a long time. I just wish people would stop acting surprised when they actually find this out.

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    Re: NSA data mining

    Quote Originally Posted by tigerfan482 View Post
    And I'm sure they sell plenty of phone records with names redacted to other companies willing to pony up money as well. I remember a time when you could pay $8 on a public records site and get someone's social security number, birth date, home address, unlisted numbers, etc. Nothing that isn't solely in your mind is safe or private and it's been that way for a long time. I just wish people would stop acting surprised when they actually find this out.
    Discovering the depths of one's personal ignorance is surprising. Or in the case of news agencies, profitable.
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    Re: NSA data mining

    From the secure your passwords department:

    In a story that will no doubt be used to demonstrate Snowden's heinous behavior, he is reported to have asked for and received the passwords of approximately 20-25 NSA employees, who have now been reassigned.

    Snowden may have persuaded between 20 and 25 fellow workers at the NSA regional operations center in Hawaii to give him their logins and passwords by telling them they were needed for him to do his job as a computer systems administrator, a second source said.

    The revelation is the latest to indicate that inadequate security measures at the NSA played a significant role in the worst breach of classified data in the super-secret eavesdropping agency's 61-year history.

    Reuters reported last month that the NSA failed to install the most up-to-date, anti-leak software at the Hawaii site before Snowden went to work there and downloaded highly classified documents belonging to the agency and its British counterpart, Government Communication Headquarters.
    ...
    (Ed.: Of course,)

    "In the classified world, there is a sharp distinction between insiders and outsiders. If you've been cleared and especially if you've been polygraphed, you're an insider and you are presumed to be trustworthy," said Steven Aftergood, a secrecy expert with the Federation of American Scientists.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/1...n_4237112.html (from Reuters)
    Also http://www.techdirt.com/articles/201...-snowden.shtml

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    Re: NSA data mining

    Quote Originally Posted by palbert View Post
    From the blame the other guy department,

    Pursuant to Executive Order 12333:



    http://icontherecord.tumblr.com/post...n-intelligence (Press release 10/31/2013)(foreign intelligence gathering)

    Executive Order 12333:



    http://icontherecord.tumblr.com/tagged/EO-12333

    Without further details, sounds a little attenuated. As news develops we shall see.
    Quote Originally Posted by tigerfan482 View Post
    ...I'm confused. What news? What is developing? There's nothing here but an explanation of E.O. 12333.
    And what an E.O. it is:

    1. Only Executive Oversight, a point recognized by Sen. Dianne Feinstein.

    2. Outside of legislative strictures and directives.

    The NSA is using 12333 in at least two different ways (and probably many more). It's using the supposed authority the order grants to collect information like the data center links, and Americans' address books and contacts because that information is considered "foreign intelligence." The definition is used in both FISA and in 12333, and is an incredibly broad term.

    The Administration is also using 12333 to create secret guidelines—without the approval of Congress—for when, why, and how the NSA can use Americans' information outside of the oversight of the FISA Court. One such guideline is called the Supplemental Procedures and Guidelines for Governing Metadata Analysis. It's a boring title, but the procedures supposedly "allow" the NSA to use the metadata collected under Section 215 and Section 702 to create social networks of Americans—and anyone else—for any "foreign intelligence" purpose. The New York Times reports that there are no restrictions on the use of such data.
    https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/1...s-other-spying

    I don't think Americans are "surprised" by the revelations; I think we're stunned. And to dismiss this E.O. as pretty much just another E.O. is disingenuous.

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    Re: NSA data mining

    Clearly Edward Snowden has not only done a big service for the general public, but also for the NSA by identifying that organisation's many internal security lapses....just imagine the consequences had the Chinese, Russians, or an Islamist terrorist group been employing Snowden to snoop on the NSA.

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    Re: NSA data mining

    Quote Originally Posted by palbert View Post
    From the secure your passwords department:

    In a story that will no doubt be used to demonstrate Snowden's heinous behavior, he is reported to have asked for and received the passwords of approximately 20-25 NSA employees, who have now been reassigned.



    Also http://www.techdirt.com/articles/201...-snowden.shtml
    At the end of the day the only true faults in security lie in the people trusted to maintain the security system. If there are 20 - 25 ignorant fucks on earth then I blame them almost as much as Snowden. Reassigned?? They should be fired. The only reason they have not been fired is because others will not cough up their shitty deeds that enabled that spineless traitor. I imagine they will be placed on the 'shit on them till they leave on their own' track that is the best way to get a civil servant to go away.


    Kalopolis what Snow den has done definitely served notice but the way he is releasing the information is much more harmful than if china or terrorist discovered it. Once you start seeing a locust of compromise then you can isolate the compromise. Snowden simply put everyone at risk.


    Something I do not understand about the previous report that the reporters boyfriend had thousands of stolen documents on his person. Why isn't he in prison for EVER? Very strange to me that the UK would put public polling above the law of the land.
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    Re: NSA data mining

    Quote Originally Posted by palbert View Post
    ... Something I do not understand about the previous report that the reporters boyfriend had thousands of stolen documents on his person. Why isn't he in prison for EVER? Very strange to me that the UK would put public polling above the law of the land.
    I think several things limited British Security:

    1. Miranda was a foreign national in the international transit zone;
    2. British law greatly circumscribes action Security can take in a transit zone;
    3. He was probably travelling as a journalist.
    4. The Guardian and the Brazilian Embassy got involved;
    5. The docs were encrypted: the Brits may have suspected approaching certainty what he carried but couldn't establish it within the mandated lead time.

    The above is my surmise.

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    Re: NSA data mining

    I know nothing of UK law so you may be correct.

    I wonder how much of a turd Glenn Greenwald is to have put his other half into such a position to go to prison, had they de-crypted the documents. I bet you the partner wont be a international secret mule again. LOL
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    Re: NSA data mining

    Senator John McCain has said Keith Alexander should resign or be fired.

    "Of course, he should resign, or be fired," McCain said. "We no longer hold anybody accountable in Washington."
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/1...n_4250505.html

    A good place to start, even if a little late by my book.

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    Re: NSA data mining

    Yeah it used to be standard policy that when you were caught with your pants down, you resigned. that changed when Clinton challenged, actually lied and then got away with it. Thereby proving to both sides that if you wait it out and have a good crisis management team you can survive. I don't think they should have went after Clinton's libido but I also think it is incredible that a sitting President lied to the American people blatantly.

    No wait and manage is the order of the day. Alexander is leaving soon too. He is leaving BTW. He announced such in October. however he is doing another modern thing, scheduling his unplanned loss. That leaves him with the ability to say he wasn't fired. Resigning is realty just getting fired unless everyone is bagging you to stay.

    That does not change the fact that whomever takes his place will be steeped in the exact same intelligence apparatus. In fact, if the person assuming command was operational during the last ten years they will be even more enamored with the massive advantage our intelligence offers a field commander. Not much is changing and there is a helluva lot of hullabaloo but no real traction. The noise is to placate the people who read the news and got angry. Perhaps I am way too jaded but that is how I see it happening.
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    Re: NSA data mining

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    I also think it is incredible that a sitting President lied to the American people blatantly.
    The foolish thing would have been for Clinton to tell the truth.

    He would have been vilified as a naively honest idiot, too stupid even to know how to cheat properly.

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    Re: NSA data mining

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    The foolish thing would have been for Clinton to tell the truth.

    He would have been vilified as a naively honest idiot, too stupid even to know how to cheat properly.
    That is, of course, one opinion. The thing most people fail to ever realize is that politics does have a set of courtesies. The one to cross lines first typically wins the day - that time. The problem is the lessons of manipulation are learned and then used by the other side in the next situation. So feel free to justify all you would like. That was the locust of waiting out public embarassment that used to signal resignation.

    Wait till the democrats hold a majority portion of one legislative body and they want to stop the republicans. You can be sure many of these lessons from the obstinate republicans will be emulated.
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    Re: NSA data mining

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    The foolish thing would have been for Clinton to tell the truth.
    Almost certainly if he had refused to answer the question, people would have left it alone. The question was nosy. Answering it was a choice. So was lying about it.

    The simplest thing for him to have done would be to have said "No comment."
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

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    Re: NSA data mining

    good read, NSA spying may cost cloud companies $35 billion

    The industry group found that “56 percent of non-US residents were less likely to use US-based cloud providers, in light of recent revelations about government access to customer information.”

    Moreover, some 36 percent of U.S. residents said that the NSA leaks have made it more difficult for them to “do business outside of the United States,” the ITIF report said.

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    Re: NSA data mining

    Quote Originally Posted by darden View Post
    I don't think most people appreciate how much the lack of respect for human rights in the USA has cost the country financially.

    Liberty is extremely profitable.
    Last edited by T-Rexx; November 15th, 2013 at 12:34 PM.

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    Re: NSA data mining

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    Almost certainly if he had refused to answer the question, people would have left it alone. The question was nosy. Answering it was a choice. So was lying about it.

    The simplest thing for him to have done would be to have said "No comment."
    I disagree most emphatically.

    If there is anything Americans care about, it is the sexual activity of celebrities. "No comment" is an answer that would have been blood to the sharks. The only "reasonable" answer was denial. The fact that Clinton preserved his presidency by denial supports this assertion, IMHO.

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    Re: NSA data mining

    Quote Originally Posted by darden View Post
    It's costing them inside the US, too. One of the previews to a movie I watched just recently was a glowing description of how "the cloud" benefits everyone -- it got booed, with calls about handing your data over to the NSA.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: NSA data mining

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    The foolish thing would have been for Clinton to tell the truth.

    He would have been vilified as a naively honest idiot, too stupid even to know how to cheat properly.
    Elementary, dear Watson; I'm surprised that there are those here who believe that a sitting president should speak the truth on those matters relating to his intimate life....I'm also thinking of FDR who maintained a wife, and at least one mistress in the White House at the same time....and, Jack Kennedy whose sexual appetite appalled the very prim, and proper J. Edgar Hoover whose own intimate life was filled with queerer, than queer episodes guaranteed to impress the most experienced of holier, than thou hypocrites.

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    Re: NSA data mining

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    I disagree most emphatically.

    If there is anything Americans care about, it is the sexual activity of celebrities. "No comment" is an answer that would have been blood to the sharks. The only "reasonable" answer was denial. The fact that Clinton preserved his presidency by denial supports this assertion, IMHO.
    No the fact that he kept his presidency is a testament to the depraved nature of our system and the ease with which a media manager can manipulate the masses. We then saw that with Bush and are seeing it now with Obama. What that tells me is that people are lemmings. Of course, I already suspected that.
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    Re: NSA data mining

    ^ The fact that Clinton kept his presidency is a testament to the fact that Americans don't really care about powerful people getting blow jobs from interns.

    What we care about is performance on the job.

    That is not "depravity" of the system. In fact, it is extraordinary reason.

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    Re: NSA data mining

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    Elementary, dear Watson; I'm surprised that there are those here who believe that a sitting president should speak the truth on those matters relating to his intimate life....I'm also thinking of FDR who maintained a wife, and at least one mistress in the White House at the same time....and, Jack Kennedy whose sexual appetite appalled the very prim, and proper J. Edgar Hoover whose own intimate life was filled with queerer, than queer episodes guaranteed to impress the most experienced of holier, than thou hypocrites.
    It is my humble opinion that people who are attracted to positions of power tend also to be people attracted to exploitation of sexual power. The very thing that makes them great leaders makes them unfaithful partners.

    In prudish, Puritan American, that is regarded as a moral "weakness."

    In most of the rest of the world, it is human nature.

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    Re: NSA data mining

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    ^ The fact that Clinton kept his presidency is a testament to the fact that Americans don't really care about powerful people getting blow jobs from interns.

    What we care about is performance on the job.

    That is not "depravity" of the system. In fact, it is extraordinary reason.
    Yeah that is why Bush kept his job too... and Cheney. But you know it is a matter of opinion. If the news outlets tell the people to think something then typically they do. Consider the deception by fox and the most recent lost election. People believe the last sound bite.
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    Re: NSA data mining

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    It is my humble opinion that people who are attracted to positions of power tend also to be people attracted to exploitation of sexual power. The very thing that makes them great leaders makes them unfaithful partners.

    In prudish, Puritan American, that is regarded as a moral "weakness."

    In most of the rest of the world, it is human nature.
    Encore, mon ami.

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    Re: NSA data mining

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    It is my humble opinion that people who are attracted to positions of power tend also to be people attracted to exploitation of sexual power. The very thing that makes them great leaders makes them unfaithful partners.

    In prudish, Puritan American, that is regarded as a moral "weakness."

    In most of the rest of the world, it is human nature.
    True everything from Germans to Italians to Indians and on and on have lost their jobs due to sex scandals BUT I would imagine they were cowtowing to American puritanism.... we are the THE leaders of all humanity. It is only natural they would be required to follow our greatness.... or not....lol

    Which again is weird if you think of the politicians on our scene that had very open affairs JFK, POLK, Harding, but never left office or had some puritanical reaction. Wouldnt the puritanical reaction be more acute the closer to puritan times? Or did the media have a sense of decency for other human beings?

    Then in the modern day when they had nothing left to shape opinion the media CHOSE that as a wedge issue to tell people how to think.
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    Re: NSA data mining

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    True everything from Germans to Italians to Indians and on and on have lost their jobs due to sex scandals BUT I would imagine they were cowtowing to American puritanism.... we are the THE leaders of all humanity. It is only natural they would be required to follow our greatness.... or not....lol

    Which again is weird if you think of the politicians on our scene that had very open affairs JFK, POLK, Harding, but never left office or had some puritanical reaction. Wouldnt the puritanical reaction be more acute the closer to puritan times? Or did the media have a sense of decency for other human beings?

    Then in the modern day when they had nothing left to shape opinion the media CHOSE that as a wedge issue to tell people how to think.
    No more so than Washington, and Jefferson speaking endlessly of the rights of man while also, being slave owners.

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    Re: NSA data mining

    Well that is obviously hypocritical but is a red herring when it comes to the discussion. The idea that some puritanical reaction is afflicting american politics and only American politics is juvenile and lacking any sense of history. It is pure and simple, a cop out.

    I dont believe in some vast right or left wing conspiracy but anyone who thinks the media doesn't shape people's opinions and then make or break issues is simply confused. Sex scandals came about as political shapers in the public eye over the last few decades as people hold politicians to a higher degree of ethical behavior. that is mostly because we see their behavior. Previously scandals were only used by other politicians and the powerful to blackmail politicians. The change can be summed up as the information age. Still the media personalities and industry are the stewards of a lot of that message.
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    Re: NSA data mining

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    Well that is obviously hypocritical but is a red herring when it comes to the discussion. The idea that some puritanical reaction is afflicting american politics and only American politics is juvenile and lacking any sense of history. It is pure and simple, a cop out.

    I dont believe in some vast right or left wing conspiracy but anyone who thinks the media doesn't shape people's opinions and then make or break issues is simply confused. Sex scandals came about as political shapers in the public eye over the last few decades as people hold politicians to a higher degree of ethical behavior. that is mostly because we see their behavior. Previously scandals were only used by other politicians and the powerful to blackmail politicians. The change can be summed up as the information age. Still the media personalities and industry are the stewards of a lot of that message.
    Should we blame the media for the haliographic status of Washington, and Jefferson that the United States school classroom, and Hollywood movies have insisted should represent reality, when the objective history book speaks to the very real human frailties of these early American politicians?

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    Re: NSA data mining

    I suppose not but is that the point of this discussion as it has morphed? The initial was a claim Obama should resign. My claim is that it hasn't gotten that bad yet and because of Clinton's very well demonstrated ability to ride out the storm and come out on top, Obama nor any other politician will leave office unless public opinion demands it AND law requires it.

    So then the claim was made that puritanical american ideology is the reason such sex scandals mean anything and yet similar scandals have ousted figures across Europe and Asia. SO the current media DOES shape what we see and by that very editorial decision of what to produce they shape what becomes a matter and what does not. How that relates to hollywood and your down the nose views of america I have no idea. But tarry on....

    P.s. The NSA just sold all your comments to the bankrupt greek government for two fishes and a bottle of olive oil. Oh but wait is that germane?

    See the point is you cannot oust Jefferson with a movie in 2014 because he died long long ago. You can oust a President with the correct scandal. However, after Clinton NONE will leave office until forced. I suppose you could go back to Nixon but he was not going anywhere until forced by the legality of what countless others did before him in office. He just got caught. oooohhh look that one up too, another case of the evil american empire bugging its own people... or what is known as business as usual.
    Last edited by JayHawk; November 17th, 2013 at 12:41 PM.
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    Re: NSA data mining

    Should Clinton have been subject to so much scrutiny the result of a blow job given by an intern.....this is question, the dilemma for many Americans who believe that the presidency should stand, or fall on the exposure of a president's illicit sex life....I have merely reminded the reader that "canonised" slave owning presidents are also due equal scrutiny as result of their less than perfect behaviour hypocritically, speaking of the rights of man often while owning slaves.

    Politicians prove that human behaviour does not improve when entering the White House.

  30. #480
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: NSA data mining

    Well of course it does not. Human beings are just that. However, reality rarely wins the day in politics. What you can convince everyone to believe is what matters. That may be wrong but it has been that way since Machiavelli wrote the Prince. (And likely well before) Why is that? Because a desire to believe and to follow is human nature as well

    The Clinton affair occurred when public consensus was that our top leaders should not be getting some hanky panky on the side. The slave owning Presidents leadership occurred when slavery was very much the popular acceptable thing. That doesn't make slavery correct but in a discussion about the effects of terrible actions upon ones Presidency i fail to see the relevance.

    Personally I believe we would get more people headed to office if the top job entitled one to endless stress relieving concubines.
    Last edited by JayHawk; November 17th, 2013 at 02:03 PM.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
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  31. #481
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    Re: NSA data mining

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    Personally I believe we would get more people headed to office if the top job entitled one to endless stress relieving concubines.
    May I enlighten you....the top job does come with the advantage of endless stress relieving concubines....but the incumbent is obliged to deny the existence of those perks, for fear that an intern might be considered more useful than a wife........

  32. #482
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: NSA data mining

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    May I enlighten you....the top job does come with the advantage of endless stress relieving concubines....but the incumbent is obliged to deny the existence of those perks, for fear that an intern might be considered more useful than a wife........
    Bwahahaha.... I will assume you know that if I were to get a political wife, get to the top, and then start fucking every twink that moved.... they would throw me out on my ear.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
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  33. #483
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    Re: NSA data mining

    Developing:

    The WSJournal reports Gen. Alexander offered to resign. He was refused so as not to hand Snowden a victory. (!!)

    One of the really big questions many of us have had throughout the revelations of the NSA's scandals is how the hell have Director of National Intelligence James Clapper and NSA boss Keith Alexander kept their jobs through all of this. ... So now it's come out, via a report by Siobhan Gorman in the Wall Street Journal, that Alexander did, in fact, offer to resign but that the White House rejected the request, because they didn't want to hand Snowden a victory.

    http://www.techdirt.com/articles/201...n-to-win.shtml
    An endorsement of the Peter Principle AND Hanlon's Razor at the same time.

  34. #484
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    Re: NSA data mining

    just . . . wow.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  35. #485
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    Re: NSA data mining

    From the chickens come home to roost department:

    After the Solicitor General wrung some necks at Justice and required that it reveal when NSA spying played an undisclosed part in the evidence creation in a criminal trial, a Federal Judge has delayed sentencing in the proceedings for someone earlier convicted of terrorism.

    http://www.techdirt.com/articles/201...sa-data.shtml:

    In one such case, of "would-be bomber" Mohamed Osman Mohamud, who was accused of wanting to bomb a Portland Christmas tree lighting ceremony, this news has put his sentencing on hold. The details of Mohamud's case suggest it was yet another case of the FBI stopping a plot of their own making, as the entire "plot" was created with undercover FBI agents. But there are also some questions about how the FBI first targeted Mohamud. Now, it appears that it may have been due to NSA activities. Mohamud had been found guilty earlier this year, and was scheduled to be sentenced in just a few weeks, but the judge -- realizing that the NSA revelations throw a big wrench into all of this -- has agreed to postpone indefinitely the sentencing. ...
    Case reference: USA vs. Mohamud, 10-NJ-497, USDC Oregon. (http://www.investigativeproject.org/case/504)

    I hope we will hear of many more such cases.

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    Re: NSA data mining

    Quote Originally Posted by palbert View Post
    From the chickens come home to roost department:

    After the Solicitor General wrung some necks at Justice and required that it reveal when NSA spying played an undisclosed part in the evidence creation in a criminal trial, a Federal Judge has delayed sentencing in the proceedings for someone earlier convicted of terrorism.

    http://www.techdirt.com/articles/201...sa-data.shtml:



    Case reference: USA vs. Mohamud, 10-NJ-497, USDC Oregon. (http://www.investigativeproject.org/case/504)

    I hope we will hear of many more such cases.
    I hope we hear of FBI agents going to prison for setting people up in order to get convictions, instead of looking for actual bad guys.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  37. #487
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    Re: NSA data mining

    From the and the beat goes on department:

    The National Security Agency is gathering nearly 5 billion records a day on the whereabouts of cellphones around the world, according to top-secret documents and interviews with U.S. intelligence officials, enabling the agency to track the movements of individuals — and map their relationships — in ways that would have been previously unimaginable.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...fac_story.html
    E.s.

    (Cite has graphics.)

    Of course some would say this is conjecture. No wonder the Utah installation keeps exploding.

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    Re: NSA data mining

    Well, it appears NSA is tracking, monitoring and actively participating in on-line games.

    Not limiting their activities to the earthly realm, American and British spies have infiltrated the fantasy worlds of World of Warcraft and Second Life, conducting surveillance and scooping up data in the online games played by millions of people across the globe, according to newly disclosed classified documents.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/10/wo...rnational-home
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...ft-second-life

    ***

    And in other news,

    Tech Giants Issue Call for Limits on Government Surveillance of Users

    Eight prominent technology companies, bruised by revelations of government spying on their customers’ data and scrambling to repair the damage to their reputations, are mounting a public campaign to urge President Obama and Congress to set new limits on government surveillance.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/09/te...-users.html?hp
    In their most concerted response yet to disclosures by the National Security Agency whistleblower Edward Snowden, Apple, Google, Microsoft, Facebook, Yahoo, LinkedIn, Twitter and AOL have published an open letter to Barack Obama and Congress on Monday, throwing their weight behind radical reforms already proposed by Washington politicians.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...ges-to-us-laws
    The open letter is here: http://reformgovernmentsurveillance.com/:

    Consistent with established global norms of free expression and privacy and with the goals of ensuring that government law enforcement and intelligence efforts are rule-bound, narrowly tailored, transparent, and subject to oversight, we hereby call on governments to endorse the following principles and enact reforms that would put these principles into action.

  39. #489
    JUB Addict Sausy's Avatar
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    Re: NSA data mining

    Is there ANYTHING that these busybodies won't do in their never ending quest to trample individual liberties in perpetuity? Of course the government should go after those who would terrorize us, but this has expanded into an all-encompassing power trip. When dos it become enough for them?
    unofficial official mini meet Friday- Saturday April 11-12, 2014

  40. #490

    Re: NSA data mining

    This administration will use it against Republicans as its IRS does.

  41. #491
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    Re: NSA data mining

    Contrary to the other tech companies

    AT&T Tells Shareholders To Mind Their Own Business Concerning Its Relationship With The NSA

    Verizon and AT&T have remained remarkably silent concerning all of the reports of NSA surveillance, which is fairly incredible, given that it appears that they have been the major players in basically handing over full access to their backbone networks to the NSA -- even to the point of volunteering to do so, rather than having to wait for a court order. It's no surprise that, unlike various internet companies, the telcos have not been at all supportive of attempts to allow for greater transparency over how companies work with the NSA.

    .... (A) bunch of shareholders have filed shareholder proposals with both companies, demanding that they start to file transparency reports concerning how they cooperate with government surveillance. AT&T has flat out rejected this request, saying it won't even include the proposed resolution on the ballot at the annual AT&T shareholder's meeting.

    http://www.techdirt.com/articles/201...with-nsa.shtml (With ATT letter to SEC justifying its position)
    It seems these are management issues - not shareholder ones - and ordinary business matters beyond shareholder input.

    I believe the SEC has some say in this. We shall see what happens.

    At least ATT's historical allegiance is becoming clearer.

  42. #492
    auribus teneo lupum Stardreamer's Avatar
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    Re: NSA data mining

    So now the latest information is that NSA and british spy agencies have been sending and recruiting agents to go into Second Life and World of Warcraft looking for terrorist networks. Cause we all know Jihadists, Elves, Orcs, Furries, and Nekos just go together. hehe
    Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule - and both commonly succeed, and are right. H. L. Mencken US editor (1880 - 1956)

  43. #493
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    Re: NSA data mining

    Quote Originally Posted by Sausy View Post
    Is there ANYTHING that these busybodies won't do in their never ending quest to trample individual liberties in perpetuity? Of course the government should go after those who would terrorize us, but this has expanded into an all-encompassing power trip. When dos it become enough for them?
    It's Parkinson's Law at work with a vengeance. The more potential threats these guys can concoct, the more underlings they can justify, and the more bureaucratic power and status they get.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  44. #494
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    Re: NSA data mining

    Quote Originally Posted by Stardreamer View Post
    So now the latest information is that NSA and british spy agencies have been sending and recruiting agents to go into Second Life and World of Warcraft looking for terrorist networks. Cause we all know Jihadists, Elves, Orcs, Furries, and Nekos just go together. hehe
    Shouldn't they all just be trolls?

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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