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  1. #201
    FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE! TX-Beau's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by LuckysRevenge View Post
    Disappointing. At least you're admitting its your opinion when for a majority of the thread you presented your posts as fact.
    LOL well at least you're amusing.

    Actually if you'd actually read the whole thread you'd realize that there is only one poster I categorized, but by all means don't let that get in the way if your snit.
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

  2. #202
    FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE! TX-Beau's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by LuckysRevenge View Post
    The very need to say you are masculine implies that you don't want to be seen as feminine. This is the same logic you use to state that "straight-acting" assumes not only a superiority of heterosexuality but also a set of distinct traits that separate people of different sexual orientation.
    No it doesn't, you are simply wrong, and that's a FACT! Now DON't say it again!

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  3. #203
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post

    I honestly think that is off the point for the purposes of self description or self conception. Many people could (and do) interpret a white identity as an anti-minority identity, as an example. But I don't think anyone would tell white people they should call themselves black or own their blackness to get away from this.
    Your race is not a choice. Your terminology is a choice. Duh.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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  4. #204

    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    Mary please.

    You come across so defensive one can’t help but wonder which nerves he hit.

    I know this terrain, I used to be you, congratulating myself how “guy,” I was, how I wasn’t’ that gay, thinking how normal and what a gift I was to gay men everywhere.

    Protest that if you want. I don’t believe you. That permeates your post.

    For guys who call themselves “SA” the general gay stereotype is disliked because they don’t want to be associated with it, and not because it’s not really them, because they have a problem being associated with it – and next time you feel inclined to tell your “straight” friends who’re all atwitter at how straight you appear – perhaps you might say that gay men populate a whole wonderful spectrum INSTEAD of telling them that really you’re just a straight guy who sucks cock.

    Because in the end YOU ARE NOT STRIAGHT ACTING UNLESS YOU FUCK TWAT. That is the ONLY behavior common to all straight men.

    Period.

    “SA” is a completely queer defined stereotype used to distance the user from negative internal emotions about one’s own gay.

    There it is.
    Yea this is only referencing one poster right?

  5. #205
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post

    Also along with what you're saying, I've seen a decrease over the course of my life in the negative connotation of being gay. That's a good thing, of course.

    I think honestly this could boil down to: is it wrong to be (or feel) gay and masculine. Because expression of it seems to be cause for offense.
    And I'll say no, it is not wrong. And in my very short experience as being out, I see this disgusting term SA less and less. Which is another case in my point really. As internalized and outside homophobia subside, so does the terminology that's based on them.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  6. #206
    mitchymo
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Your race is not a choice. Your terminology is a choice. Duh.
    Something potential to be learned here. Attitude is also a choice. If you're gonna kick up a fuss over trivial things like what other gay guys label themselves as....

  7. #207
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Your race is not a choice. Your terminology is a choice. Duh.
    This response comes up but in between each of these are people saying that no one should make any distinction at all.

    It would be a lot easier to understand the objection if people would either decide: is it 1 term that bothers you, or an entire distinction. People are going back and forth between both positions and if it's the latter, then we're wasting our time with the former.

  8. #208
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuckysRevenge View Post

    So it's only the low-brow? I suggest you get out more. Even the president must show his machismo by playing sports or having a beer.
    The emphasis on masculinity is pervasive among heterosexual culture.
    And yet nerds make the most money outside of a few celebrities. And pop-culture is less and less "masc". I wonder...
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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  9. #209
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by LuckysRevenge View Post
    Yea this is only referencing one poster right?
    I believe that WAS addressed to ONE poster but whatever, I said that there was only one poster I CATEGORIZED, third line down, I simply don't see any other posters referenced.

    English, you might try it sometime.
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  10. #210
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    And I'll say no, it is not wrong.
    Good. See we can reach a plane of mutual understanding somewhere.

  11. #211
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post

    So a dislike of effeminacy is synonymous with homophobia now??? You see the homophobia in the term straight-acting because you want to, not because there is a great deal of truth in it. Maybe your dislike of straight things, exemplified by your 'breeders' usage is the bigger problem.

    If straight-acting is the term they've adopted over masculine in their lifetime, then obviously they'll use it regardless.
    And I'll continue to judge them accordingly.

    And no, I'm not heterophobic. Disliking effeminacy is not bad. Expressing it through judgmental sweeping terminology is. You keep trying to make this about who you are and what you do but you fail. It's not. It's about how you express it.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  12. #212

    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    I believe that WAS addressed to ONE poster but whatever, I said that there was only one poster I CATEGORIZED, third line down, I simply don't see any other posters referenced.

    English, you might try it sometime.
    You're not referencing a poster. You simply mention anyone who uses the term SA.
    "SA is a completely queer defined stereotype used to distance the user from negative internal emotions about ones own gay."

    Nice try.

  13. #213
    Slut vater292's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    No, they really don't. There are degrees of masculinity, true, but once out of high school whether you're an intellectual or a jock, society as a whole doesn't discriminate against you and it's generally only the really low-brow big machos that really insist on proving their machismo. Which, ironically, supports my argument as it shows insecurity.
    Actually a lot of guys do compare their heteroness. If you spend much time in a production plant or on a work site then you really see this. Its a major part of interaction between guys (at least from my various jobs and with my current job where I go into various plants everyday). Its quite comical listening to them brag about their cars/trucks, or stories of crazy stuff they have done, and the guys that actually workout them bragging about what they can do while working out.

  14. #214
    mitchymo
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    And no, I'm not heterophobic. Disliking effeminacy is not bad. Expressing it through judgmental sweeping terminology is. You keep trying to make this about who you are and what you do but you fail. It's not. It's about how you express it.
    The terminology is neither judgemental nor sweeping. That's how YOU may see it, that's not how i see it. It reflects the type of guy i am, and that's that.

  15. #215
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuckysRevenge View Post

    The very need to say you are masculine implies that you don't want to be seen as feminine. This is the same logic you use to state that "straight-acting" assumes not only a superiority of heterosexuality but also a set of distinct traits that separate people of different sexual orientation.
    Ugh. Again.

    If I say I'm masculine, I say that I don't want to be feminine. It MAY mean that I dislike femininity OR that I just don't want to be feminine. Either way, it's a personal preference. I am not calling anyone less than me. Furthermore, being masculine is a subject to interpretation.

    If I say I am SA, I am saying that I act not like what I am, which is gay. I can't not be gay, yet I act as the opposite of what I am. There's already a serious conflict here. Then I actually mean "masculine", which generalizes the entire gay minority as the opposite. And since I am so in conflict with being who I am that I chose a term describing the opposite of it, clearly it's very bad.

    I'm doing a logic line here, not saying that's what goes in people's heads.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  16. #216

    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    And yet nerds make the most money outside of a few celebrities. And pop-culture is less and less "masc". I wonder...
    If pop culture was the reference point for society then gays would have no problem being out and fabulous.
    In most of the country and the world, this is not the case.
    Masculinity is a measuring stick for heterosexual men and any interaction with such men makes this painfully obvious outside certain niche or privileged circles.

  17. #217
    FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE! TX-Beau's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by LuckysRevenge View Post
    You're not referencing a poster. You simply mention anyone who uses the term SA.
    "“SA” is a completely queer defined stereotype used to distance the user from negative internal emotions about one’s own gay."

    Nice try.
    Try? I believe the poster I was responding to was clearly identified. We even had an argument about go look. Did you omit that part on purpose - come on, you can tell me.

    Reading Comprehension - you might want to try it sometime.
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

  18. #218

    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Ugh. Again.

    If I say I'm masculine, I say that I don't want to be feminine. It MAY mean that I dislike femininity OR that I just don't want to be feminine. Either way, it's a personal preference. I am not calling anyone less than me. Furthermore, being masculine is a subject to interpretation.

    If I say I am SA, I am saying that I act not like what I am, which is gay. I can't not be gay, yet I act as the opposite of what I am. There's already a serious conflict here. Then I actually mean "masculine", which generalizes the entire gay minority as the opposite. And since I am so in conflict with being who I am that I chose a term describing the opposite of it, clearly it's very bad.

    I'm doing a logic line here, not saying that's what goes in people's heads.
    The conflict is who I am and who society perceives me as. That is what you're not getting.

  19. #219
    FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE! TX-Beau's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by LuckysRevenge View Post
    If pop culture was the reference point for society then gays would have no problem being out and fabulous.
    In most of the country and the world, this is not the case.
    Masculinity is a measuring stick for heterosexual men and any interaction with such men makes this painfully obvious outside certain niche or privileged circles.
    No, you are simply wrong, and that's a FACT! Now DON't say it again!

    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

  20. #220
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post

    I think if we acknowledge that some gay men feel comfortable and self-empowered viewing themselves in a feminine lens, even including using feminine pronouns for themselves, is a good and positive thing we should accept and celebrate, then the community should also respect people who do not do so. And when we celebrate the former openly it is dishonest to say there's utterly no need for any distinction of any kind or that insecure people only make up that there is ever any call for distinction.
    Again - the two aren't the same. Celebrating the feminine side of a man is a statement and it celebrates diversity. The opposite is what straight culture already expects. There's nothing to celebrate there. There's nothing to be ashamed of either, but there should be, when the term used spits on this same diversity.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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  21. #221
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by LuckysRevenge View Post
    Masculinity is a measuring stick for heterosexual men and any interaction with such men makes this painfully obvious outside certain niche or privileged circles.
    What? Maybe I misunderstood, but did you just obliterate all masculinity from any gay men here?

  22. #222
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    Thankfully, how people choose to view or describe themselves is not a matter up for your personal approval or disapproval, though it is also not something you need to emulate if you don't want to. You can describe yourself in any manner you wish and I frankly have no say about it-- nor am I in this thread telling you that you are wrong or suffering flaws for your choice in how to do so.
    No, people don't get to "define themselves." Words have meanings independent of people's random utterances of them. Guys who regularly enjoy sucking dick do not get to label themselves as straight, because that is not what the word "straight" means. Similarly the concepts of masculinity and heterosexuality and straight-acting actually do mean something. How people "choose to view themselves" may have nothing to do with it. In which case, it's not a question of "honouring their self-concept" or whatever modern anti-positivist mumbo jumbo" but of educating them as to the meaning of these words.

    Words like "masculinity" and "heterosexuality" and "homosexuality" are interesting because the academic history behind them is relatively shallow compared to other sociopolitical concepts like "power" or "authority" or "will." But that means there is just more need of education. Not more need of random people using the words in inconsistent and contradictory ways.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  23. #223
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post

    Something potential to be learned here. Attitude is also a choice. If you're gonna kick up a fuss over trivial things like what other gay guys label themselves as....
    Yeah, many white men still think it's also "trivial" to call black people niggers.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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  24. #224
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Again - the two aren't the same. Celebrating the feminine side of a man is a statement and it celebrates diversity. The opposite is what straight culture already expects. There's nothing to celebrate there. There's nothing to be ashamed of either, but there should be, when the term used spits on this same diversity.
    Rolyo this reads dangerously closely to "if you are masculine, and acknowledge and affirm it, you're aiding the enemy." Which should be a ridiculous statement if as has been posited all over this thread, straight men don't have a monopoly on masculinity or femininity.

  25. #225

    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    No, people don't get to "define themselves." Words have meanings independent of people's random utterances of them. Guys who regularly enjoy sucking dick do not get to label themselves as straight, because that is not what the word "straight" means. Similarly the concepts of masculinity and heterosexuality and straight-acting actually do mean something. How people "choose to view themselves" may have nothing to do with it. In which case, it's not a question of "honouring their self-concept" or whatever modern anti-positivist mumbo jumbo" but of educating them as to the meaning of these words.

    Words like "masculinity" and "heterosexuality" and "homosexuality" are interesting because the academic history behind them is relatively shallow compared to other sociopolitical concepts like "power" or "authority" or "will." But that means there is just more need of education. Not more need of random people using the words in inconsistent and contradictory ways.
    And these people are using society conceptions of gay and straight behavior to "define" themselves.

  26. #226
    FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE! TX-Beau's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    Rolyo this reads dangerously closely to "if you are masculine, and acknowledge and affirm it, you're aiding the enemy." Which should be a ridiculous statement if as has been posited all over this thread, straight men don't have a monopoly on masculinity or femininity.
    I've got to go to dinner now but remind me to respond to this if I forget later.
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  27. #227
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    No, people don't get to "define themselves."
    I'll tell you why I find discussions with you pointless. You present your point of view as some form of universal truth without exception, and with no regard for other points of view. This statement applies to no one else in the thread. Exchanges with you feel like a one sided conversation of listening to you explain how it is for everyone regardless of whether they think that's the case or not.

  28. #228
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post

    The terminology is neither judgemental nor sweeping. That's how YOU may see it, that's not how i see it. It reflects the type of guy i am, and that's that.
    Yeah, cause I am the only one with the problem here. If that were the case, there would be no argument.

    You have consistently ignored my explanations as to WHY the baggage is there. Your only responses are "it's not cause I say it's not".
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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  29. #229
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuckysRevenge View Post

    The conflict is who I am and who society perceives me as. That is what you're not getting.
    What YOU don't seem to be getting is that society gives none of the fuck whether you use SA or not. Straights still see you as gay (unless you're closeted). And most gay men see you as a douche
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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  30. #230
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post

    No, people don't get to "define themselves." Words have meanings independent of people's random utterances of them. Guys who regularly enjoy sucking dick do not get to label themselves as straight, because that is not what the word "straight" means. Similarly the concepts of masculinity and heterosexuality and straight-acting actually do mean something. How people "choose to view themselves" may have nothing to do with it. In which case, it's not a question of "honouring their self-concept" or whatever modern anti-positivist mumbo jumbo" but of educating them as to the meaning of these words.

    Words like "masculinity" and "heterosexuality" and "homosexuality" are interesting because the academic history behind them is relatively shallow compared to other sociopolitical concepts like "power" or "authority" or "will." But that means there is just more need of education. Not more need of random people using the words in inconsistent and contradictory ways.
    Thank you. Amen.

    Or can I call myself a giraffe?
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  31. #231

    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    What YOU don't seem to be getting is that society gives none of the fuck whether you use SA or not. Straights still see you as gay (unless you're closeted). And most gay men see you as a douche
    First I don't use the term. But most gay men? I wouldn't go that far. Like lex said the term attracts A LOT of attention. It works.

    And it's not a matter of caring what society things. It's using society's definitions to get a point across. Everyone knows what it means. That's the point.

  32. #232
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post

    Rolyo this reads dangerously closely to "if you are masculine, and acknowledge and affirm it, you're aiding the enemy." Which should be a ridiculous statement if as has been posited all over this thread, straight men don't have a monopoly on masculinity or femininity.
    Except nowhere have I said anything against calling yourself masculine, other than that I'd question the need to advertise something society already assumed about your gender.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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  33. #233
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post

    I'll tell you why I find discussions with you pointless. You present your point of view as some form of universal truth without exception, and with no regard for other points of view. This statement applies to no one else in the thread. Exchanges with you feel like a one sided conversation of listening to you explain how it is for everyone regardless of whether they think that's the case or not.
    He is right in this case though. Saying "this term means what I want it to mean and I don't care about connotation" is an extreme cop out.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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  34. #234
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuckysRevenge View Post

    First I don't use the term. But most gay men? I wouldn't go that far. Like lex said the term attracts A LOT of attention. It works.

    And it's not a matter of caring what society things. It's using society's definitions to get a point across. Everyone knows what it means. That's the point.
    Been on Grindr lately? Barely anyone ever uses it anymore.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  35. #235

    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Been on Grindr lately? Barely anyone ever uses it anymore.
    I have. And everyone uses it where I live. Not sure about you.

  36. #236
    Dance like Machines MakeDigitalLove's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    He is right in this case though. Saying "this term means what I want it to mean and I don't care about connotation" is an extreme cop out.
    One of the things I've learned here, people like to make words mean what they want it to mean.

  37. #237
    The Danger Zone. MoufOfKhaos's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Okay, in the wake of all this posturing and hullabaloo, now, i'm straight acting.

    Come at me, bros.
    "Ive been in the Danger Zone, east of the Pacific Ocean,

    west of London England, south of Mars, and north of Hell..."

  38. #238
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    He is right in this case though. Saying "this term means what I want it to mean and I don't care about connotation" is an extreme cop out.
    Words, their meaning and their connotations change over time. Regardless of Bankside appointing himself head of the Conservatory of American English.

    If you call yourself a queen does that mean you're a female regnant of a country?

  39. #239
    GAYVIATOR
    ibill1's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    It doesn't bother me. I take it as they are just saying they are not a flamer, another sterotype but gets the message across.

    My favorites are the ones that post something like this,
    "Sraight guy here looking to play around with another guy. Looking to take your cock up my ass and cum in my mouth"

    I've actually seen that post. In what universe does this denote a straight man. The poor delusional things.

  40. #240
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuckysRevenge View Post

    I have. And everyone uses it where I live. Not sure about you.
    Yeah, I live in an actual gay community where few people are completely or semi-closeted. Keep proving my point please.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  41. #241
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post

    Words, their meaning and their connotations change over time. Regardless of Bankside appointing himself head of the Conservatory of American English.

    If you call yourself a queen does that mean you're a female regnant of a country?
    Yeah, let me know when "straight acting" isn't an implication on how gays act.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  42. #242

    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Yeah, I live in an actual gay community where few people are completely or semi-closeted. Keep proving my point please.
    And I live in the NYC area... Your arrogance is showing.

  43. #243
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Yeah, let me know when "straight acting" isn't an implication on how gays act.
    This is petulant when I have said the term is problematic and asked for alternates.

    I suppose what this boils down to for me is that there is a poor choice of available terminology (one alternative has been suggested so thanks for that) but I suspect the outrage comes from distinguishing at all moreso than from the term itself, and several posts seem to have acknowledged that.

    If someone feels inherently threatened by a statement of masculinity, or begins a series of internal mental inquisitions about someone who does so, especially if they turn around and affirm that effeminate identifications are positive, the problem is theirs.
    Last edited by xbuzzerx; September 25th, 2013 at 04:35 PM.

  44. #244
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuckysRevenge View Post

    And I live in the NYC area... Your arrogance is showing.
    Be more vague. NYC area includes a tenth of the country's population, spread in multitudes of very different communities.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  45. #245
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post

    This is petulant when I have said the term is problematic and asked for alternates.
    Then stop defending it. Because you are. Or at the least you're making the democracy argument "well it's bad but what's better?"
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  46. #246
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    I'll tell you why I find discussions with you pointless. You present your point of view as some form of universal truth without exception, and with no regard for other points of view. This statement applies to no one else in the thread. Exchanges with you feel like a one sided conversation of listening to you explain how it is for everyone regardless of whether they think that's the case or not.
    Oh, well, that's an interesting side-bar. I'm not sure you were there in CE&P the day a combination of good points by JockBoy and Christopher Hitchens persuaded me to change my mind about Hamas during that period where Israel was intervening in what were ostensibly shipments of humanitarian aid originating in Turkey. Jockboy didn't do it by some combination of relativism and saying "all our opinions are equally loveable." He did it by presenting arguments that were more solid than mine, and which gave a better account of the facts on the ground, and which addressed my objections to his earlier formulations of his position.

    I'm sorry if you find my opinions unusually seamless. In reflecting on your post, what I am perhaps even more certain of than in most positions I take, is that you underestimate the degree to which you hold your own paradigms to be universal.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  47. #247

    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Be more vague. NYC area includes a tenth of the country's population, spread in multitudes of very different communities.
    I lived in NYC for the last 8 years. Almost every single gay I know (and I don't know any closet gays) has and uses grindr.

  48. #248
    I spell spelled spelt
    gsdx's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    A friend of mine could turn it on or off at the blink of an eye. In public, he would be as straight as can be. In private company, he could make Liberace look like Schwarzenegger. When I met him in the late 70s, I didn't know he was gay.

    So. Was he acting gay or acting straight?

  49. #249
    The Danger Zone. MoufOfKhaos's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by gsdx View Post
    A friend of mine could turn it on or off at the blink of an eye. In public, he would be as straight as can be. In private company, he could make Liberace look like Schwarzenegger. When I met him in the late 70s, I didn't know he was gay.

    So. Was he acting gay or acting straight?
    He's a straight acting gay actor acting gay and not gay.

    They are the enemy.
    "Ive been in the Danger Zone, east of the Pacific Ocean,

    west of London England, south of Mars, and north of Hell..."

  50. #250
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    Oh, well, that's an interesting side-bar. I'm not sure you were there in CE&P the day a combination of good points by JockBoy and Christopher Hitchens persuaded me to change my mind about Hamas during that period where Israel was intervening in what were ostensibly shipments of humanitarian aid originating in Turkey. Jockboy didn't do it by some combination of relativism and saying "all our opinions are equally loveable." He did it by presenting arguments that were more solid than mine, and which gave a better account of the facts on the ground, and which addressed my objections to his earlier formulations of his position.

    I'm sorry if you find my opinions unusually seamless. In reflecting on your post, what I am perhaps even more certain of than in most positions I take, is that you underestimate the degree to which you hold your own paradigms to be universal.
    The assumptions people instantly leap to about choices of words, particularly when the speaker has said that these assumptions are not correct, is not a matter of presenting objective facts or hard evidence and coming to the most reasonable conclusion. It's simply a matter of you believe someone is saying what they mean, or you believe they are lying.

    Sorry Bankside, I'm unable to put my thoughts into a hard digital form for verification of their veracity for you.

    By the way, since words have inalienable meanings regardless of what people think they mean when they say them, of what country do gay men who call themselves queens reign over?
    Last edited by xbuzzerx; September 25th, 2013 at 04:40 PM.

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