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  1. #201

    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    No, people don't get to "define themselves." Words have meanings independent of people's random utterances of them. Guys who regularly enjoy sucking dick do not get to label themselves as straight, because that is not what the word "straight" means. Similarly the concepts of masculinity and heterosexuality and straight-acting actually do mean something. How people "choose to view themselves" may have nothing to do with it. In which case, it's not a question of "honouring their self-concept" or whatever modern anti-positivist mumbo jumbo" but of educating them as to the meaning of these words.

    Words like "masculinity" and "heterosexuality" and "homosexuality" are interesting because the academic history behind them is relatively shallow compared to other sociopolitical concepts like "power" or "authority" or "will." But that means there is just more need of education. Not more need of random people using the words in inconsistent and contradictory ways.
    And these people are using society conceptions of gay and straight behavior to "define" themselves.

  2. #202
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    Rolyo this reads dangerously closely to "if you are masculine, and acknowledge and affirm it, you're aiding the enemy." Which should be a ridiculous statement if as has been posited all over this thread, straight men don't have a monopoly on masculinity or femininity.
    I've got to go to dinner now but remind me to respond to this if I forget later.
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  3. #203
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    No, people don't get to "define themselves."
    I'll tell you why I find discussions with you pointless. You present your point of view as some form of universal truth without exception, and with no regard for other points of view. This statement applies to no one else in the thread. Exchanges with you feel like a one sided conversation of listening to you explain how it is for everyone regardless of whether they think that's the case or not.

  4. #204
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post

    The terminology is neither judgemental nor sweeping. That's how YOU may see it, that's not how i see it. It reflects the type of guy i am, and that's that.
    Yeah, cause I am the only one with the problem here. If that were the case, there would be no argument.

    You have consistently ignored my explanations as to WHY the baggage is there. Your only responses are "it's not cause I say it's not".
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  5. #205
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuckysRevenge View Post

    The conflict is who I am and who society perceives me as. That is what you're not getting.
    What YOU don't seem to be getting is that society gives none of the fuck whether you use SA or not. Straights still see you as gay (unless you're closeted). And most gay men see you as a douche
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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  6. #206
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post

    No, people don't get to "define themselves." Words have meanings independent of people's random utterances of them. Guys who regularly enjoy sucking dick do not get to label themselves as straight, because that is not what the word "straight" means. Similarly the concepts of masculinity and heterosexuality and straight-acting actually do mean something. How people "choose to view themselves" may have nothing to do with it. In which case, it's not a question of "honouring their self-concept" or whatever modern anti-positivist mumbo jumbo" but of educating them as to the meaning of these words.

    Words like "masculinity" and "heterosexuality" and "homosexuality" are interesting because the academic history behind them is relatively shallow compared to other sociopolitical concepts like "power" or "authority" or "will." But that means there is just more need of education. Not more need of random people using the words in inconsistent and contradictory ways.
    Thank you. Amen.

    Or can I call myself a giraffe?
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  7. #207

    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    What YOU don't seem to be getting is that society gives none of the fuck whether you use SA or not. Straights still see you as gay (unless you're closeted). And most gay men see you as a douche
    First I don't use the term. But most gay men? I wouldn't go that far. Like lex said the term attracts A LOT of attention. It works.

    And it's not a matter of caring what society things. It's using society's definitions to get a point across. Everyone knows what it means. That's the point.

  8. #208
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post

    Rolyo this reads dangerously closely to "if you are masculine, and acknowledge and affirm it, you're aiding the enemy." Which should be a ridiculous statement if as has been posited all over this thread, straight men don't have a monopoly on masculinity or femininity.
    Except nowhere have I said anything against calling yourself masculine, other than that I'd question the need to advertise something society already assumed about your gender.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  9. #209
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post

    I'll tell you why I find discussions with you pointless. You present your point of view as some form of universal truth without exception, and with no regard for other points of view. This statement applies to no one else in the thread. Exchanges with you feel like a one sided conversation of listening to you explain how it is for everyone regardless of whether they think that's the case or not.
    He is right in this case though. Saying "this term means what I want it to mean and I don't care about connotation" is an extreme cop out.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuckysRevenge View Post

    First I don't use the term. But most gay men? I wouldn't go that far. Like lex said the term attracts A LOT of attention. It works.

    And it's not a matter of caring what society things. It's using society's definitions to get a point across. Everyone knows what it means. That's the point.
    Been on Grindr lately? Barely anyone ever uses it anymore.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  11. #211

    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Been on Grindr lately? Barely anyone ever uses it anymore.
    I have. And everyone uses it where I live. Not sure about you.

  12. #212
    26354 MakeDigitalLove's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    He is right in this case though. Saying "this term means what I want it to mean and I don't care about connotation" is an extreme cop out.
    One of the things I've learned here, people like to make words mean what they want it to mean.

  13. #213
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Okay, in the wake of all this posturing and hullabaloo, now, i'm straight acting.

    Come at me, bros.
    "Heads buried in the sand,

    You are impotent..."

  14. #214
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    He is right in this case though. Saying "this term means what I want it to mean and I don't care about connotation" is an extreme cop out.
    Words, their meaning and their connotations change over time. Regardless of Bankside appointing himself head of the Conservatory of American English.

    If you call yourself a queen does that mean you're a female regnant of a country?

  15. #215
    GAYVIATOR ibill1's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    It doesn't bother me. I take it as they are just saying they are not a flamer, another sterotype but gets the message across.

    My favorites are the ones that post something like this,
    "Sraight guy here looking to play around with another guy. Looking to take your cock up my ass and cum in my mouth"

    I've actually seen that post. In what universe does this denote a straight man. The poor delusional things.

  16. #216
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuckysRevenge View Post

    I have. And everyone uses it where I live. Not sure about you.
    Yeah, I live in an actual gay community where few people are completely or semi-closeted. Keep proving my point please.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  17. #217
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post

    Words, their meaning and their connotations change over time. Regardless of Bankside appointing himself head of the Conservatory of American English.

    If you call yourself a queen does that mean you're a female regnant of a country?
    Yeah, let me know when "straight acting" isn't an implication on how gays act.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  18. #218

    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Yeah, I live in an actual gay community where few people are completely or semi-closeted. Keep proving my point please.
    And I live in the NYC area... Your arrogance is showing.

  19. #219
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Yeah, let me know when "straight acting" isn't an implication on how gays act.
    This is petulant when I have said the term is problematic and asked for alternates.

    I suppose what this boils down to for me is that there is a poor choice of available terminology (one alternative has been suggested so thanks for that) but I suspect the outrage comes from distinguishing at all moreso than from the term itself, and several posts seem to have acknowledged that.

    If someone feels inherently threatened by a statement of masculinity, or begins a series of internal mental inquisitions about someone who does so, especially if they turn around and affirm that effeminate identifications are positive, the problem is theirs.
    Last edited by xbuzzerx; September 25th, 2013 at 04:35 PM.

  20. #220
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuckysRevenge View Post

    And I live in the NYC area... Your arrogance is showing.
    Be more vague. NYC area includes a tenth of the country's population, spread in multitudes of very different communities.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  21. #221
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post

    This is petulant when I have said the term is problematic and asked for alternates.
    Then stop defending it. Because you are. Or at the least you're making the democracy argument "well it's bad but what's better?"
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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  22. #222
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    I'll tell you why I find discussions with you pointless. You present your point of view as some form of universal truth without exception, and with no regard for other points of view. This statement applies to no one else in the thread. Exchanges with you feel like a one sided conversation of listening to you explain how it is for everyone regardless of whether they think that's the case or not.
    Oh, well, that's an interesting side-bar. I'm not sure you were there in CE&P the day a combination of good points by JockBoy and Christopher Hitchens persuaded me to change my mind about Hamas during that period where Israel was intervening in what were ostensibly shipments of humanitarian aid originating in Turkey. Jockboy didn't do it by some combination of relativism and saying "all our opinions are equally loveable." He did it by presenting arguments that were more solid than mine, and which gave a better account of the facts on the ground, and which addressed my objections to his earlier formulations of his position.

    I'm sorry if you find my opinions unusually seamless. In reflecting on your post, what I am perhaps even more certain of than in most positions I take, is that you underestimate the degree to which you hold your own paradigms to be universal.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  23. #223

    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Be more vague. NYC area includes a tenth of the country's population, spread in multitudes of very different communities.
    I lived in NYC for the last 8 years. Almost every single gay I know (and I don't know any closet gays) has and uses grindr.

  24. #224
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    A friend of mine could turn it on or off at the blink of an eye. In public, he would be as straight as can be. In private company, he could make Liberace look like Schwarzenegger. When I met him in the late 70s, I didn't know he was gay.

    So. Was he acting gay or acting straight?

  25. #225
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by gsdx View Post
    A friend of mine could turn it on or off at the blink of an eye. In public, he would be as straight as can be. In private company, he could make Liberace look like Schwarzenegger. When I met him in the late 70s, I didn't know he was gay.

    So. Was he acting gay or acting straight?
    He's a straight acting gay actor acting gay and not gay.

    They are the enemy.
    "Heads buried in the sand,

    You are impotent..."

  26. #226
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    Oh, well, that's an interesting side-bar. I'm not sure you were there in CE&P the day a combination of good points by JockBoy and Christopher Hitchens persuaded me to change my mind about Hamas during that period where Israel was intervening in what were ostensibly shipments of humanitarian aid originating in Turkey. Jockboy didn't do it by some combination of relativism and saying "all our opinions are equally loveable." He did it by presenting arguments that were more solid than mine, and which gave a better account of the facts on the ground, and which addressed my objections to his earlier formulations of his position.

    I'm sorry if you find my opinions unusually seamless. In reflecting on your post, what I am perhaps even more certain of than in most positions I take, is that you underestimate the degree to which you hold your own paradigms to be universal.
    The assumptions people instantly leap to about choices of words, particularly when the speaker has said that these assumptions are not correct, is not a matter of presenting objective facts or hard evidence and coming to the most reasonable conclusion. It's simply a matter of you believe someone is saying what they mean, or you believe they are lying.

    Sorry Bankside, I'm unable to put my thoughts into a hard digital form for verification of their veracity for you.

    By the way, since words have inalienable meanings regardless of what people think they mean when they say them, of what country do gay men who call themselves queens reign over?
    Last edited by xbuzzerx; September 25th, 2013 at 04:40 PM.

  27. #227
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by MoufOfKhaos View Post
    He's a straight acting gay actor acting gay and not gay.
    That was my thought as well.

  28. #228
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    By the way, since words have inalienable meanings regardless of what people think they mean when they say them, of what country do gay men who call themselves queens reign over?
    Seriously, Kulindahr?
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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  29. #229
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Seriously, Kulindahr?
    Shrug, the question was serious.

    If you and Bankside want to assert there's only one possible interpretation and the meaning of words used is explicit and fixed, you can't apply it selectively as convenient.

  30. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post

    Oh come on, there is clearly a distinction there. That's guys calling others, not guys calling themselves.
    You are yet to refute my claim that you ARE calling me things by describing yourself as SA. In fact, you're yet to refute ANYTHING I've said. Your only response to me so far has been stomping your foot down and accusing me of making it up, with some assorted cries that you're being oppressed and that you didn't vote for me.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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  31. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post

    Shrug, the question was serious.

    If you and Bankside want to assert there's only one possible interpretation and the meaning of words used is explicit and fixed, you can't apply it selectively as convenient.
    Actually we can, because that's how language works. Some TERMS (notice - not simply words but terms) are more flexible than others, this is simply a fact. Furthermore, nobody is saying SA doesn't mean what Mitch says it does. We are claiming it has a lot of ADDITIONAL meaning attached to it, and you can't just unattach it by claiming you "don't mean it like that."
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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  32. #232
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Actually we can, because that's how language works. Some TERMS (notice - not simply words but terms) are more flexible than others, this is simply a fact. Furthermore, nobody is saying SA doesn't mean what Mitch says it does. We are claiming it has a lot of ADDITIONAL meaning attached to it, and you can't just unattach it by claiming you "don't mean it like that."
    And who gets to decide this, and which ones they are?

  33. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post

    I didn't say you are the only one with the problem. I have not ignored your explanations, i just don't think you are right to be as judgemental as you are being and failing to listen to the opposing view. Frankly, its a huge deal being made about something which doesn't need to be.
    Words are important. If people are getting upset, them clearly it matters to them. And I have not really failed to listen to your opposing view, it's just that your opposing view is ignoring arguments instead of arguing with them. I say "there's baggage because..." And you say "there isn't, you're making it up." That's not acknowledging my point of view, that's dismissing it. Meanwhile, you're yet to present arguments for yours, besides "I am too lazy to type an extra syllable".
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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  34. #234
    The gay gargoyle G-Lexington's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    This thread has hereby lost its interest. I'm going to head up to the mountain casino to see a rock concert. Which may or may not be straight-acting or gay-acting. Or offensive. Or interesting.

    Lex

  35. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post

    And who gets to decide this, and which ones they are?
    Common usage, scholarship, any number of factors, including discussions like this one. Sorry to disappoint, if you expected me to say "me" or "the supreme gay tribunal"
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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  36. #236

    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post
    What a load of cock-a-maimy babble!! No offence but talk straight.

    But why should the SA guy have to deny himself an identity when femme guys get a free pas to label the entire community?
    When someone labels themselves or anyone else...it speaks only about them...and people's opinions on those labels and their usage are subjective so whatever it is you are trying to say about yourself or others may backfire or might give the other person an opinion of you opposite of what you intended.

    I don't care what you label yourself but in my opinion if you are gay...any action you take or any behavior you exhibit is "gay acting"...because you are gay. If I wanted to support stereotypes I might see things differently...but I choose not to.

  37. #237
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Common usage, scholarship, any number of factors, including discussions like this one. Sorry to disappoint, if you expected me to say "me" or "the supreme gay tribunal"
    The use of the slang words "queen" and "straight-acting" within the context of this thread are slang. They're not fixed words with one meaning assigned by a higher scholarly power.

    It was a poor attempt by Bankside to turn this into an objective argument when this is entirely about subjective perceptions.

  38. #238
    The Pendulum Speaks. MoufOfKhaos's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by G-Lexington View Post
    This thread has hereby lost its interest. I'm going to head up to the mountain casino to see a rock concert. Which may or may not be straight-acting or gay-acting. Or offensive. Or interesting.

    Lex
    Wrong. Rock out.

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  39. #239

    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by G-Lexington View Post
    This thread has hereby lost its interest. I'm going to head up to the mountain …
    Yep, this thread is degenerating into another re-enactment of The Balkan Wars—

    I hate you!

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  40. #240
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    The use of the slang words "queen" and "straight-acting" within the context of this thread are slang. They're not fixed words with one meaning assigned by a higher scholarly power.

    It was a poor attempt by Bankside to turn this into an objective argument when this is entirely about subjective perceptions.
    I don't see why anyone should be bound by your conception of language or the meaning of words when you assert your own perspective to be subjective. You are standing on a patch of quicksand of your own making. Oh well.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  41. #241

    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    This is gay acting, he's totally burn in hell


  42. #242
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post
    What a load of cock-a-maimy babble!! No offence but talk straight.
    Can't. I'm gay. You should teach me how to act straight ^_^

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post
    I have no need to try and refute an accusation that i'm calling you ANYTHING when i choose to call MYSELF straight-acting.
    Actually, you do, when I have taken the time to present an argument defending my position. That is if you insist of being part of the discussion. That's how arguments work. People make statements and then others respond. Otherwise you're, like I said, just stomping your foot down.

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post
    If you wish to prove why it is that the term shouldn't be allowed
    I do not wish any such thing, and I am not going to acknowledge this misrepresentation of my position as fact. I believe people should become aware of the negative connotations of the term, and make a free choice to stop using it. There is a world of difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post
    , and in what way i am harming you by doing so, and most importantly, one that does not hold true of the polar opposite, i.e. effeminate language being used towards gays in general, then i may listen more intently to you.
    "May" being the key word here, as you clearly haven't done so yet, considering I have responded to ALL of these. Here's a recap, for the short of attention:

    1. You are harming me by propagating a harmful stereotype, namely - that being straight equals being masculine, and therefore being gay is feminine, with the understood subtext that comes with straight culture that masculine is superior to feminine when it comes to the male gender. Worse, you are propagating that harmful stereotype WITHIN gay culture, not without. It is not one that makes straight people like us less, but one that makes US like us less.

    2. As I said in a response to buzzer, masculinity and femininity are NOT on an equal basis in today's culture. Being masculine is "good", being feminine is "bad". So celebrating femininity is embracing diversity and in no way harmful to masculine people because masculinity is still the law of the land. So the cries of "double standard!" are kinda like Christians screaming that they are being oppressed by gay people. Furthermore, I stated multiple times that there is nothing wrong with expressing the fact that you are masculine. The problem comes when you use phrases that equate it to the condition opposite of yours, and one that I am also a part of.

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post
    Otherwise, all i'm getting is that its A-OK to call yourself diva, queen and sugar-petal, but don't you dare call yourself straight-acting because somehow that's homophobic.
    Another recap - though frankly at this point it's glaringly obvious you barely skimmed the topic and have no real interest in engaging in an actual discussion, or I wouldn't have to repeat myself verbatim and giving you answers to questions that have already been answered:

    Being a diva, queen and sugar-petal limits your description to yourself. Also, there is NO specific opposite to ANY of these. For each you could list a hundred words that would be AN opposite. But there is no one thing that you can say "if you are a diva, then you are saying you are not X". Same with being masculine, btw. True, that one does have a specific opposite, but you are not making a judgment of others by calling yourself masculine. NOT so when calling yourself straight-acting, and I am sorry, but I am not going to repeat AGAIN the numerous posts in which I explained why. If you weren't interested in reading them before, you won't do it now either. It absolutely IS homophobic, because you already agree (and if you didn't, it would be laughable) that there is pervasive femmephobia in our society, and you are equating "straight" with "masculine", and "gay" with "feminine" (or, to be precise - "not masculine", but we already know there is only one opposite to that one). So how is that not homophobic again? You are LITERALLY saying "straight is better than gay" by using the term SA.

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post
    But why should the SA guy have to deny himself an identity when femme guys get a free pas to label the entire community?
    Because a) SA is not an identity, but a denial of one; not to mention there are any number of non-offensive ways to describe the identity it describes; and b) because femme guys have earned their "free pass" by being hated even within their own community by super straight acting guys like yourself. Them's the perks of being a persecuted minority. You get all sorts of free passes. I am sure Tony Perkins and Porno Pete could totally relate to your plight.

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post
    I am not saying you are making it up at all. I'm saying you're over-reacting.
    +

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post
    The only reason for that is because guys like you seem intent on smearing the terminology.
    = Oops...

    At least read YOUR OWN posts if not mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post
    That's a fair point to make. I'm a label guy i guess. I like being able to term things.
    SA is largely understood, if its a problem for any gay guy, then liklihood is, they're not the guy being sought anyway. (in ref. to dating ads which sparked this raging thread)
    First, being able to term things is good, but being able to term them correctly is better. Part of that is discarding inaccurate offensive terminology. You aren't any more straight acting than the most catty drag queen in any of the bars in Boystown. You fuck dudes. You're gay acting. So why not use terms that actually describe what you want them to, instead of ones made up by self-hating faggots?

    Second - that is not something I can argue with. Most of the SA homos I've encountered are the "no face picture, I don't like bars, if you can quote a Britney song, eat shit and die" type that pretty much only go for each other. Here's the sad thing though - an AWFUL lot of perfectly masculine and good looking guys would still get offended by this lazy terminology and just assume you are a self-loathing loser, whether that's true or not. So you are really mostly harming yourself.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  43. #243

    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    ^



    Yugoslav diplomacy in action


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  44. #244
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Wow. I gave up actually reading before I finished the second page, and just skimmed after that.

    Let's look at the word "act". As an example: "She acts like a baby." The speaker isn't saying the gal is putting on an act, like an actor, but that her actions, taken together, resemble those of a baby. Turn those words into a different way of saying it, and you have "baby-acting".

    Saying someone is "X-acting" merely means that observation of their actions shows that they resemble someone who is X. In reality it makes no judgment as to whether it's an act, or just the natural way the person is.

    So also "straight-acting": all it means is that if a person's actions over time were observed by an average person, they'd never guess the guy was gay -- his actions say "straight". It doesn't mean the guy is acting, i.e. putting on an act, it just means that judging by his actions he appears to be straight. It's not good, it;s not bad, it just is -- and the only way to know more is to get to know the guy and find out if it's an act, or just natural.

    I can think of a number of reasons a guy might be straight-acting, from trying to hide he's gay to having been so indoctrinated while growing up that any actions that weren't "straight" got suppressed. They both happen to deserve our pity -- the first because the guy lacks the balls to be himself, and the second 'cause the guy was so abused he never had the freedom to be himself. Although I'll make an exception: any gay guy where I grew up who wasn't straight-acting would have had a very high probability of not finishing growing up. Even eight years ago guys here had to be very careful -- one at where my best buddy worked was beat up, most of his ribs broken deliberately, because some others at work thought he was checking them out. The only openly gay couple in town has better security than people I knew in Gary, Indiana, where steel bars across doors to supplement dead bolts and chains weren't uncommon.

    The real tragedy here is that some people are so arrogant and self-righteous that they can be judgmental and dismissive without every getting to know a person.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  45. #245
    Sex God youfiad's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Over analyzing the term doesn't mean that you should get offended. I find nothing wrong with it. 99.99999% of people understand what is implied. How else would you explain someone who is attracted to guys that you wouldn't expect because they fit into mainstream culture? I actually find it a quite fitting term and not at all offensive.

  46. #246
    WTF????? refujiunderground's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    yes, it is a cop out. a gay guy that's "straight acting" is an oxymoron. it doesn't exist. you can be masculine gay guy but you're still gay.

    - - - Updated - - -

    yes, it is a cop out. a gay guy that's "straight acting" is an oxymoron. it doesn't exist. you can be masculine gay guy but you're still gay.
    one thing about the closet/you don't have to hurry/it will be bad tomorrow/so brother, don't you worry

  47. #247
    The Pendulum Speaks. MoufOfKhaos's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by youfiad View Post
    Over analyzing the term doesn't mean that you should get offended. I find nothing wrong with it. 99.99999% of people understand what is implied. How else would you explain someone who is attracted to guys that you wouldn't expect because they fit into mainstream culture? I actually find it a quite fitting term and not at all offensive.
    That's a rather bold fallacy considering that the implication can be easily swayed to be many different things all at once.
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  48. #248
    Sex God youfiad's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by MoufOfKhaos View Post
    That's a rather bold fallacy considering that the implication can be easily swayed to be many different things all at once.
    No.

    Maybe the people who they want to understand it understand it. I, for one, understand it and find nothing bad about it. That's my opinion, and you can't necessarily call it wrong.

  49. #249
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Wow. I gave up actually reading before I finished the second page, and just skimmed after that.

    Let's look at the word "act". As an example: "She acts like a baby." The speaker isn't saying the gal is putting on an act, like an actor, but that her actions, taken together, resemble those of a baby. Turn those words into a different way of saying it, and you have "baby-acting".

    Saying someone is "X-acting" merely means that observation of their actions shows that they resemble someone who is X. In reality it makes no judgment as to whether it's an act, or just the natural way the person is.

    So also "straight-acting": all it means is that if a person's actions over time were observed by an average person, they'd never guess the guy was gay -- his actions say "straight". It doesn't mean the guy is acting, i.e. putting on an act, it just means that judging by his actions he appears to be straight. It's not good, it;s not bad, it just is -- and the only way to know more is to get to know the guy and find out if it's an act, or just natural.

    I can think of a number of reasons a guy might be straight-acting, from trying to hide he's gay to having been so indoctrinated while growing up that any actions that weren't "straight" got suppressed. They both happen to deserve our pity -- the first because the guy lacks the balls to be himself, and the second 'cause the guy was so abused he never had the freedom to be himself. Although I'll make an exception: any gay guy where I grew up who wasn't straight-acting would have had a very high probability of not finishing growing up. Even eight years ago guys here had to be very careful -- one at where my best buddy worked was beat up, most of his ribs broken deliberately, because some others at work thought he was checking them out. The only openly gay couple in town has better security than people I knew in Gary, Indiana, where steel bars across doors to supplement dead bolts and chains weren't uncommon.

    The real tragedy here is that some people are so arrogant and self-righteous that they can be judgmental and dismissive without every getting to know a person.
    I think the issue is not with the word "act" in straight acting, but with the word "straight." There is no necessary association between heterosexuality and any given observable behaviour. (Outside the bedroom, where, presumably, a straight man will show more interest and involvement with females, and a gay man will show more interest and involvement with males.)
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  50. #250
    The Pendulum Speaks. MoufOfKhaos's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by youfiad View Post
    No.

    Maybe the people who they want to understand it understand it. I, for one, understand it and find nothing bad about it. That's my opinion, and you can't necessarily call it wrong.
    So your opinion is that a term like straight-acting can only have one right answer based upon the person speaking the term?

    That's bizarre, and absolutely short-sighted. Usually I don't even waste the time to argue semantics, but if you're gonna cite a far-fetched percentage, at least have big enough balls to prove that it's more than just an opinion, otherwise why play a numbers game at all?
    Last edited by MoufOfKhaos; September 25th, 2013 at 07:59 PM.
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