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  1. #151
    JUB Addict umjreon88's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    I find the term "straight-acting" to be the most hypocritical, digusting, insulting thing a guy can call himself or label someone else. Just because a guy is more in tuned with his "masculine" side doesn't mean that he is "straight-acting", it just means that he doesn't have the stereotypical "camp" and "feminine" behaviours and attitudes that society perpetuated!
    Last edited by umjreon88; September 25th, 2013 at 03:07 PM.
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  2. #152
    mitchymo
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    LOL. So call yourself a "masculine" gay man, problem solved.
    I would if it was linguistically preferential. 'I'm a masculine gay' is 5 syllables 'i'm straight-acting' is 4.

  3. #153
    Lions&Tigers&Bears Oh My!
    eastofeden's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    That exact misconception is why I agreed from post 1 that the term does engender misunderstanding and asked for alternates.

    Tx-beau's answer to me in post 98 affirms my belief that it's simply any distinction at all between masculine and feminine that causes offense, but the fact that I'd put it on par with saying the color of my hair or what recreational activities I like or the fact that I really can't stomach a football game does not necessitate my belief that effeminate gay men are bad. It signifies only that I do not identify as an effeminate gay man... or a football fan, or a blond.
    In that case...the answer is simple. For those of use who wish to describe ourselves as masculine...use the word masculine versus "straight acting". Of course...the term masculine is subjective....

  4. #154
    FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE! TX-Beau's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post
    I would if it was linguistically preferential. 'I'm a masculine gay' is 5 syllables 'i'm straight-acting' is 4.
    Liar liar pants on fire.
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  5. #155
    The old familiar sting blackbeltninja's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by G-Lexington View Post
    That's just it. It doesn't matter what the term is. The basic argument from the get-go is this: "the sheer fact that you felt you needed to make the distinction in the first place is what makes me feel you're not worthy of my attention".
    It does matter, though. You get like 50 words to play with on these online sites. You could write an essay, or you could write "straight-acting" and we'd all know what you mean, and you'd still have 48 other words to bait your profile with. To me it's a simple transfer of theoretically unambiguous information, not a distinction of us vs them.

    On that note, I don't think my being straight acting makes me better than you.

    I also don't think that your being gay acting makes you better than me.

    Quote Originally Posted by G-Lexington View Post
    The problem people are having is based on the feeling that by saying "straight-acting" or "masculine", you're saying "I'm gay, but I'm not, y'know, GAY gay". Buzzer hypothetically asked "If I say I'm bookish, does that demean athletes?" And no, it doesn't. But in that example, he's not distancing himself from the group he's placed himself into. If he said "I'm bookish, but I'm no nerd", or "I'm an athlete, but I'm no jock", I think we'd be in more similar situations. It suggests there's something wrong with "nerd" or "jock".
    Is that any different from being a bigger guy but not identifying and playing the role of a bear or cub? I may be new to the whole homo thing, but I'm under the impression that "bear" is an entire sub-culture of gay. But it doesn't have the same negative connotations attached to it as straight-acting does, even though if someone says "I'm a bear" we all know exactly what he means. So if a guy says "I'm big, but I'm not into the bear thing" are we going to write him off as self-loathing/deluded/smug/your epithet here?

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  6. #156
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post

    The homophobic terms are entirely dependent. My problem with your position is that you far too often (imo) choose to take the literal words and ignore the context entirely. And many more do the same. You only have to look at the beginnings of this thread to see people confusing the contextual and literal meaning of the word 'acting'. I have not considered any baggage that may be associated with the term straight-acting BECAUSE there is no baggage intended. Its the like of you have applied baggage by insinuating that it is harming other gays or is a sign of repression and shame.

    Secondly, i am being defensive yes, too right i am. This post has attacked a percentage of gay guys, albeit a small percentage, but to which i include myself. The OP made me angry. I won't remain silent whilst people try to impose their own explanations of who and what i am. You did this in your post to, claiming that i'm like you used to be. Its rubbish. I don't see myself as being 'not one of them' or being god's gift to men by virtue of my absence of effeminacy.
    1. No, I'm sorry but there IS baggage. To claim otherwise is to ignore decades of straight-gay interaction, homophobic perceptions and internalized homophobia-related shame of being gay and/or gay culture. Just because YOU don't mean anything by using it doesn't negate that, and returns us to my example of niggers, faggots and mongoloids.

    2. I reiterate - whether you choose to dig deeper into analyzing why you choose a term that equates your "level of being gay" to that of a straight man or not, nobody here (except for TX, and that - in response to your frankly VERY defensive sounding rant) is trying to tell you either how you are or how you should be. What the thread is about, is the terminology and what feelings it brings in other members of your own community. "I don't do the bar scene and I'm on the masculine side of the spectrum" might be longer but it's infinitely more accurate and doesn't offend or describe (see one of my points in response to buzzer above) anyone else.
    Last edited by Rolyo85; September 25th, 2013 at 03:13 PM.
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  7. #157

    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    LOL. So call yourself a "masculine" gay man, problem solved.
    But that has the same harmful effect as straight-acting.

  8. #158
    FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE! TX-Beau's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    No it doesn't.
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

  9. #159

    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    No it doesn't.
    The need to put masculine implies (according to your logic) that feminine is negative or undesirable.

    Masculine and straight-acting are both subjective terms chock full of emotional and psychological baggage.

  10. #160
    The old familiar sting blackbeltninja's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    1. The very need to define your level of gayness/straightness is already suspect. Straight men don't feel the need to measure how straight they are, why should GAY men measure how STRAIGHT they are?!
    Have you never picked up a hetero-aimed mens' magazine, like a Mens Health, Maxim, Stuff or FHM, or numerous others? Or never watched mainstream television, or never seen any adverts anywhere, ever?

    Heteros define their heteroness, and compare it to each other's, all the time.

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  11. #161
    Kien
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by blackbeltninja View Post
    Yes, but apparently these now have to be inclusive and politically correct. Didn't you get the memo?

    -d-
    When did this happen??? I'm so lost with the times

  12. #162
    美しいヨーロッパ Scealle's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Straight acting is a really weird term so I wouldn't really use that term to describe a masculine gay guy. If a gay guy is not stereo typically flamboyant then he's just gay or normal human homosex to me. To me straight acting usually is when someone tried to act straight or hides their homosexuality by bearding/closeted/ living a double life.I think a lot of gays these days are very masculine or normal/ non stereo typically flamboyant

  13. #163
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    1. The very need to define your level of gayness/straightness is already suspect. Straight men don't feel the need to measure how straight they are, why should GAY men measure how STRAIGHT they are?! O.o The distinction IS partly the cause for offense. Frankly, I live in one of the top five gayest neighborhoods in the country and I have honestly not experienced any relevant degree of limp-wristed cliche-queens. Those do exist but their relevance and symbolizing of gay culture is greatly exaggerated by many other gay men so that they can justify hiding they're gay.
    I agree the term is bad. What I'm trying to ask is are you inherently offended by someone objectively distinguishing between the effeminate and the masculine, even if that person is doing it with no intention of slighting the other group?

    3. Of course words have meaning depending on context. I have called Asians "orientals" when I didn't know the term was offensive. Which is kinda my point. Using "straight-acting" shows ignorance and insensitivity to the very very pregnant subtext of what the term actually says.
    I agree but my issue here is that when it's like extracting teeth with no painkillers to ask people to propose alternatives, it does not imply to me the problem is with the term, it implies to me that some people feel incredibly threatened in any context where a distinction between masculine and feminine comes up.

    4. Calling yourself a diva, girl and a bitch describes you. Calling yourself "straight acting" describes ME. You're making a general statement regarding what it means to be gay and how it relates to being straight
    I agree the term is very open to that interpretation and indeed probably many people who use it do have that intent. I disagree that any distinction of masculine and feminine carries this stigma in intent, by even noticing it whatsoever.

    5. Accusing the forum of some gay elitism is unfair. Internalized homophobia is a real and very pervasive thing in the world and to have this argument at all attests to that. We HAVE to deliberately and consciously fight these terms and their usage so that WE can evolve as a minority and stop feeling inferior. Or will you argue that gays in general don't subconsciously feel inferior to straights? Because it's terms like this that do that.
    I simply think that I should feel proud of and support someone who has come along his gay path in life as an effeminate man and that I should not be questioned on whether or not I'm attacking people when I'm proud of mine as a non-effeminate man. This thread has been less about all inclusion and more about what suspicions, prejudices and hatreds people automatically assign to people who make the distinction.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    People who just don't seem gay wouldn't go out of their way to describe themselves as "straight acting" in my experience. I know I never have, and people don't usually peg me for a homersekshul.
    If it's inappropriate to call verbal attention to one's masculinity, it's equally so to call verbal attention to one's status as a queen or a diva or a bitch, because it creates a division and people fall on sides of divisions-- it works both ways. If you want to be seen as a queen (or any other term which I by no means begrudge anyone from embracing) that is fine, so long as you respect my wish to not identify that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by eastofeden View Post
    In that case...the answer is simple. For those of use who wish to describe ourselves as masculine...use the word masculine versus "straight acting". Of course...the term masculine is subjective....
    Thank you for the answer.

  14. #164
    FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE! TX-Beau's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by LuckysRevenge View Post
    The need to put masculine implies (according to your logic) that feminine is negative or undesirable.

    Masculine and straight-acting are both subjective terms chock full of emotional and psychological baggage.
    Nope, that "logic" came from your head, and you are responsible for it.
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

  15. #165
    mitchymo
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    Liar liar pants on fire.
    You're welcome to that view. It doesn't change the fact that if a shorter, just as apt word came about for describing the same thing, i'd use that without a second thought either.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    1. No, I'm sorry but there IS baggage. To claim otherwise is to ignore decades of straight-gay interaction, homophobic perceptions and internalized homophobia-related shame of being gay and/or gay culture. Just because YOU don't mean anything by using it doesn't negate that, and returns us to my example of niggers, faggots and mongoloids.

    2. I reiterate - whether you choose to dig deeper into analyzing why you choose a term that equates your "level of being gay" to that of a straight man or not, nobody here (except for TX, and that - in response to your frankly VERY defensive sounding rant) is trying to tell you either how you are or how you should be. What the thread is about, is the terminology and what feelings it brings in other members of your own community. "I don't do the bar scene and I'm on the masculine side of the spectrum" might be longer but it's infinitely more accurate and doesn't offend or describe (see one of my points in response to buzzer above) anyone else.
    Your point to buzzer was inaccurate. You argued how using effeminate words were self descriptors but SA was describing you, when that is completely ignoring what SA guys are saying, that IT is a self descriptor too AND FURTHERMORE, your examples as self descriptors can also be perceived as describing ME. The very reason that straight acting came about was probably because some gay guys were sick of being stereotyped in a way that doesn't reflect whatsoever.

    The use of the term is being denigrated because of a perception that it undermines effeminate men by some sort of intent, at the same time as effeminate and former derogatory (queer) words are being seen as harmless, despite them doing exactly that to gay guys that can't relate.

  16. #166

    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    "Straight Acting" is exactly about how being effeminate is bad. There is simply no other reason to describe oneself thus.

    Any person upon meeting you will see you. What your mannerisms are, whether you "fit" a stereotype or not. "SA" is not about rights or meta whatever, it's a label a guy puts on himself, a self stereotype that has to do with how he feels bout HIMSELF.

    I could care less about wanting to Help people becoming more accepting - if they ask, I'll do what I can, but other than that, people move at their own speed. This does not negate the fact that there ARE commonalities of experience and issues that recur. He did not invent SA. It's not "just his way."

    If he's going to use that term he's going to have to deal with all the baggage it carries. What he's asking us to do is NOT to see him as an individual, but as the stereotype he finds more acceptable than that other one.
    Fine. I'll go back to the drawing board here.

    Straight-acting is an easy way to say "You can predict my behavior and interests to be what you see in most straight men."

    It's not about whether being feminine or masculine is bad. It's just a shortcut so that men seeking someone who appears straight can be drawn to this person's profile.

    Your passionate overanalyzing is a waste of energy. It's not that serious.

  17. #167
    I need water Kabluey's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    It's a cop out - no where near descriptive enough.
    Straight acting could mean anything. I want some definites:

    Are you Marlon-Brando-acting?


    Steve-Carell-acting?


    or Not-Particularly-Good-At-acting?
    Blah blah blah, something enigmatic sounding...

  18. #168
    FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE! TX-Beau's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post
    You're welcome to that view. It doesn't change the fact that if a shorter, just as apt word came about for describing the same thing, i'd use that without a second thought either.
    Thank you.
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

  19. #169
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post

    When I describe myself as bookish am I insulting sports fans?

    If you call yourself queeny acting are you insulting masculinity?

    That is in my opinion an error and a disservice on your part to equate them. Essentially you are saying that a gay man who is not making an intentional effort to fit a stereotype is just faking his lack of stereotypical traits.

    If that's your position, fine, but then don't complain when the mainstream stereotypes you, because you have equated the stereotype as being integral to being gay at all.
    That's woefully inaccurate. You are comparing random personality qualities with a binary term. When it comes to sexuality, "straight" has an opposite. Only one. And that's the one you're not acting like when you're straight acting.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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  20. #170
    mitchymo
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    Thank you.
    You're welcome.

  21. #171
    FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE! TX-Beau's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by LuckysRevenge View Post
    Fine. I'll go back to the drawing board here.

    Straight-acting is an easy way to say "You can predict my behavior and interests to be what you see in most straight men."

    It's not about whether being feminine or masculine is bad. It's just a shortcut so that men seeking someone who appears straight can be drawn to this person's profile.

    Your passionate overanalyzing is a waste of energy. It's not that serious.
    I don't agree with your "definition" of SA.

    I do find it funny that people keep trying to tell me about loathe this and passionate that - at least twice I pointed out that on the ground this is relatively minor in at least my life, and that net discussions go like this.

    I can only conclude that you are trying to mis-characterize my fervor for some mischievous reason of your own.
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

  22. #172
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post

    I think you might be conflating a bunch of things into a point nobody made. If some guy wants to play SA - I frankly don't care, it's just going to make me avoid him probably.

    Discussion of the term, it's origins, and why it gets used isn't saying that it will bring fire down on our heads.

    Straight people don't give a fuck and are NOT going to say, oh look at Bob, he's a "Straight Acting" Gay, they are just going to say he's gay.

    On the ground the only people who obsess over this are usually the guys who call themselves SA.
    This. A lot. SA is only used between gay men, it has no bearing on straights. And I agree with the rest too.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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  23. #173

    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    I don't agree with your "definition" of SA.

    I do find it funny that people keep trying to tell me about loathe this and passionate that - at least twice I pointed out that on the ground this is relatively minor in at least my life, and that net discussions go like this.

    I can only conclude that you are trying to mis-characterize my fervor for some mischievous reason of your own.
    You don't have to agree with my definition. You're not even using the term. You're trying to tell people how they see and define themselves.

  24. #174
    The gay gargoyle
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by blackbeltninja View Post
    It does matter, though. You get like 50 words to play with on these online sites. You could write an essay, or you could write "straight-acting" and we'd all know what you mean, and you'd still have 48 other words to bait your profile with. To me it's a simple transfer of theoretically unambiguous information, not a distinction of us vs them.
    Well, as I said in my post, it's a term that will attract eyeballs, and create reactions, both positive and negative. I'm assuming the positives outweigh the negatives, but I don't think you'll be able to convince everybody who has a negative reaction that they're reading your ad wrong.

    On that note, I don't think my being straight acting makes me better than you.
    I see and hear this comment a lot. And my belief is that it's said far more often than it's meant. You may be completely sincere, but I don't know if everybody who says it is.

    Is that any different from being a bigger guy but not identifying and playing the role of a bear or cub? I may be new to the whole homo thing, but I'm under the impression that "bear" is an entire sub-culture of gay. But it doesn't have the same negative connotations attached to it as straight-acting does, even though if someone says "I'm a bear" we all know exactly what he means. So if a guy says "I'm big, but I'm not into the bear thing" are we going to write him off as self-loathing/deluded/smug/your epithet here?
    Well, *I* wouldn't, but then again, I'm trying to comprehend the other side through all this. (I personally have little to no response to "straight-acting".) And I'd say a bear would have every right to be offended by "I'm big but I'm not into the bear thing"...not that it's any big deal, as the guy placing the ad obviously isn't going to be interested in him anyway. But back to the point. The guy placing the ad doesn't actually have to say "I'm not into the bear scene". Why? Because if he were, he'd presumably say so. He'd just say "I'm a bear" or "I'm a cub" or whatever he would identify as. I don't know if I'd look at any online ad where a guy said "I'm big" and immediately think "I bet he's got a closet full of leather".

    Lex

  25. #175
    The Burden MakeDigitalLove's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by G-Lexington View Post
    Then perhaps a question was skipped. To the question "Are 'trying not to appear gay' and 'not intentionally trying to seem gay', to you, the same thing?" you answered yes. So let me ask this question:

    "Are (intentionally or not) trying not to appear gay" and "not appearing gay, without any 'trying' on his part", to you, the same thing?

    Lex
    I've already answered this in my posts.

  26. #176
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post

    Society teaches that nerdiness is bad.

    I watch tons of sci fi.

    Assigning to me participating in persecution or harm to others based on how I self-describe is out of line.
    That's not been the case in over a decade. Not since Zuckerberg, Gates, Jobs and all the other nerds became billionaires.

    Also, nerds haven't been ostracized from every aspect of life and religion doesn't hate them. False equivalence IS indeed false.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  27. #177
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by G-Lexington View Post
    I see and hear this comment a lot. And my belief is that it's said far more often than it's meant. You may be completely sincere, but I don't know if everybody who says it is.
    I honestly think that is off the point for the purposes of self description or self conception. Many people could (and do) interpret a white identity as an anti-minority identity, as an example. But I don't think anyone would tell white people they should call themselves black or own their blackness to get away from this.

  28. #178
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-Lexington View Post

    I think the idea is that if you feel the need to MAKE the distinction in the first place - no matter what term you might use - then you are (intentionally or not) drawing a line between yourself and the homosexual community at large. That by feeling the need to mention it, you're saying "Yeah, I'm gay, but I'm not like them." Like a more subtle version of the entire g0y movement.

    Lex
    My point exactly, and it bears repeating.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  29. #179
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    That's not been the case in over a decade. Not since Zuckerberg, Gates, Jobs and all the other nerds became billionaires.

    Also, nerds haven't been ostracized from every aspect of life and religion doesn't hate them. False equivalence IS indeed false.
    Also along with what you're saying, I've seen a decrease over the course of my life in the negative connotation of being gay. That's a good thing, of course.

    I think honestly this could boil down to: is it wrong to be (or feel) gay and masculine. Because expression of it seems to be cause for offense.

  30. #180
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post

    The only reason for that is because guys like you seem intent on smearing the terminology. I'll repeat blackbeltninja's excellent comment:
    The terminology is smeared by the homophobic psychology at its very core. We didn't smear it and you can't unsmear it.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  31. #181
    FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE! TX-Beau's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by LuckysRevenge View Post
    You don't have to agree with my definition. You're not even using the term. You're trying to tell people how they see and define themselves.


    Wow, it's nice to be appreciated.

    OH COME ON! What does that even mean. It's pretty much just a wordier version of "you stink."
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

  32. #182
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post

    Let me answer your question with a question.

    Why is stereotyping yourself in one set of proscribed, community-approved ways okay, positive and self-affirming, and others are not? Do we agree on those categories?
    Because the community as a whole rarely "approves" things based on how they affect minorities. Just because straight people think being straight is better than being gay, doesn't mean WE have to.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  33. #183
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post

    Lex, the homosexual community at this very moment is not doing a very good job of making me feel welcome or included.
    Well, if you act more straight, maybe the straight community will? Or wait, they aren't fooled.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  34. #184

    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post


    Wow, it's nice to be appreciated.

    OH COME ON! What does that even mean. It's pretty much just a wordier version of "you stink."
    You have told people who use the phrase SA what they think and why they use it. My post means exactly what it said.
    Whether you disagree with their definition doesn't matter because they are using it to describe themselves and only themselves.

  35. #185
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post

    As blackbelt noted, that its straight and masculine that are not synonymous like you first said, but straight-acting and masculine ARE.

    If i then ask myself why i don't just use masculine, its because that doesn't identify someone as gay, it identifies them as male or man-like.
    And people on a hook up/dating site/app won't know you're gay already?
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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  36. #186
    FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE! TX-Beau's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by LuckysRevenge View Post
    You have told people who use the phrase SA what they think and why they use it. My post means exactly what it said.
    Whether you disagree with their definition doesn't matter because they are using it to describe themselves and only themselves.
    A fine non-statement.

    Be more succinct - "YOU'RE A STINKER!"

    You posses an ignore button if I get too insufferable for you. Be your own man and disappear my opinion, use it.
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

  37. #187
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post

    I would if it was linguistically preferential. 'I'm a masculine gay' is 5 syllables 'i'm straight-acting' is 4.
    And "I'm masculine" is three. You're already only using this in an environment of exclusively gay men. It's implied you're one too.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  38. #188
    The Burden MakeDigitalLove's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by LuckysRevenge View Post
    If you mind sparing me the job of sifting through all the essays in this thread, id greatly appreciate it.
    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post
    I would if it was linguistically preferential. 'I'm a masculine gay' is 5 syllables 'i'm straight-acting' is 4.
    So it basically comes down to some of you being real lazy, got it.

  39. #189
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Well, if you act more straight, maybe the straight community will? Or wait, they aren't fooled.
    Now now, no call for that.

  40. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuckysRevenge View Post

    But that has the same harmful effect as straight-acting.
    Inaccurate. While I agree with others that the need to define your level of masculinity shows a certain level of insecurity, it doesn't imply things about others. It just shows how you see yourself. And that's a HUGE difference.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  41. #191
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackbeltninja View Post

    Have you never picked up a hetero-aimed mens' magazine, like a Mens Health, Maxim, Stuff or FHM, or numerous others? Or never watched mainstream television, or never seen any adverts anywhere, ever?

    Heteros define their heteroness, and compare it to each other's, all the time.

    -d-
    No, they really don't. There are degrees of masculinity, true, but once out of high school whether you're an intellectual or a jock, society as a whole doesn't discriminate against you and it's generally only the really low-brow big machos that really insist on proving their machismo. Which, ironically, supports my argument as it shows insecurity.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  42. #192
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post
    As blackbelt noted, that its straight and masculine that are not synonymous like you first said, but straight-acting and masculine ARE.

    If i then ask myself why i don't just use masculine, its because that doesn't identify someone as gay, it identifies them as male or man-like.
    In my eyes...the person who identifies as "straight acting" is simply oppressive....my subjective opinion of course. I don't see them as masculine at all. I think a truly masculine man is in touch with his feminine side. That is why I think the term masculine is subjective anyway.

  43. #193

    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    A fine non-statement.

    Be more succinct - "YOU'RE A STINKER!"

    You posses an ignore button if I get too insufferable for you. Be your own man and disappear my opinion, use it.
    Disappointing. At least you're admitting its your opinion when for a majority of the thread you presented your posts as fact.

  44. #194

    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    No, they really don't. There are degrees of masculinity, true, but once out of high school whether you're an intellectual or a jock, society as a whole doesn't discriminate against you and it's generally only the really low-brow big machos that really insist on proving their machismo. Which, ironically, supports my argument as it shows insecurity.
    So it's only the low-brow? I suggest you get out more. Even the president must show his machismo by playing sports or having a beer.
    The emphasis on masculinity is pervasive among heterosexual culture.

  45. #195
    mitchymo
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    The terminology is smeared by the homophobic psychology at its very core. We didn't smear it and you can't unsmear it.
    So a dislike of effeminacy is synonymous with homophobia now??? You see the homophobia in the term straight-acting because you want to, not because there is a great deal of truth in it. Maybe your dislike of straight things, exemplified by your 'breeders' usage is the bigger problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    And people on a hook up/dating site/app won't know you're gay already?
    If straight-acting is the term they've adopted over masculine in their lifetime, then obviously they'll use it regardless.

  46. #196
    The gay gargoyle
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    I was reading a book recently, and in it, a businessman said "I know I'm not supposed to use this term about myself, but I believe it's true - I'm a genius". And it struck me that there ARE terms that we feel it's OK to say about OTHER people, but we feel weird (or even suspicious) if somebody uses it about themselves. It may be that we're skeptical of anybody giving themselves a superlative rating anywhere, or perhaps there are some qualifications we don't feel somebody is qualified to grant themselves. I certainly have no trouble saying somebody is a genius or super-creative or whatever else (assuming I believe it), but I don't know if I'd believe it if somebody told me that about themselves.

    And maybe "straight-acting" and/or "masculine" fall into this realm as well. If asked to describe some gay guy, especially to somebody who was specifically wondering if they'd be interested in dating them, I'd probably use the term "masculine" if it fit.

    Lex

  47. #197

    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Inaccurate. While I agree with others that the need to define your level of masculinity shows a certain level of insecurity, it doesn't imply things about others. It just shows how you see yourself. And that's a HUGE difference.
    The very need to say you are masculine implies that you don't want to be seen as feminine. This is the same logic you use to state that "straight-acting" assumes not only a superiority of heterosexuality but also a set of distinct traits that separate people of different sexual orientation.

  48. #198
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Inaccurate. While I agree with others that the need to define your level of masculinity shows a certain level of insecurity, it doesn't imply things about others. It just shows how you see yourself. And that's a HUGE difference.
    I think if we acknowledge that some gay men feel comfortable and self-empowered viewing themselves in a feminine lens, even including using feminine pronouns for themselves, is a good and positive thing we should accept and celebrate, then the community should also respect people who do not do so. And when we celebrate the former openly it is dishonest to say there's utterly no need for any distinction of any kind or that insecure people only make up that there is ever any call for distinction.

  49. #199
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post
    You're welcome to that view. It doesn't change the fact that if a shorter, just as apt word came about for describing the same thing, i'd use that without a second thought either.

    Your point to buzzer was inaccurate. You argued how using effeminate words were self descriptors but SA was describing you, when that is completely ignoring what SA guys are saying, that IT is a self descriptor too AND FURTHERMORE, your examples as self descriptors can also be perceived as describing ME. The very reason that straight acting came about was probably because some gay guys were sick of being stereotyped in a way that doesn't reflect whatsoever.

    The use of the term is being denigrated because of a perception that it undermines effeminate men by some sort of intent, at the same time as effeminate and former derogatory (queer) words are being seen as harmless, despite them doing exactly that to gay guys that can't relate.
    I have responded to your point already. Comparing a binary system (straight/gay) with terms that are part of a giant spectrum does not work.

    The point being made is that gay guys got sick of being associated with gay culture by straight people and came up with a term that is ONLY used in gay culture and doesn't matter to straight people. Do you not see how ridiculous this is?
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  50. #200
    The Burden MakeDigitalLove's Avatar
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    Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post
    So a dislike of effeminacy is synonymous with homophobia now??? You see the homophobia in the term straight-acting because you want to
    Nope, it is because it is there.

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