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  1. #51
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    Re: What do you think about the pope's new issue?

    I share this only as a perspective piece - one priest's interpretation of excommunication.



    And I know, if I'll only be true, to this glorious quest . . .

  2. #52
    Dejavudoo
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    Re: What do you think about the pope's new issue?

    Here is the clip of the episode that the priest cited as his proof:

    http://www.colbertnation.com/the-col...xrs=share_copy

    It becomes quite evident in viewing the clip that in fact Mr. Wills is no longer a Roman Catholic: he appears to have discovered the Protestant Reformation.

    But to Father Carpenter's point about individuals excommunicating themselves, it is a bit of a disingenuous position to argue that the rebel has beheaded himself in the Tower and that the State has only provided an axe. The Church has been more than willing to write the excommunication orders.

    But more to Carpenter's point, the heretic in this case knows he is espousing heresy, so any formal action which would follow would indeed be pro forma.

    It is a bit telling and ironic that Carpenter interprets Colbert's assumed onscreen character to be Colbert's belief. The priest's own zealotry is showing. He also goes on to make the error that claimed Mainline Christian denominations (not a Catholic term) agree on the content of the New Testament -- that is not so.

    In fairness to the priest, if a Catholic denies such a fundamental tenet of Catholicism, there is little left to claim.
    Last edited by Dejavudoo; September 23rd, 2013 at 04:21 AM.

  3. #53
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    Re: What do you think about the pope's new issue?

    Thanks Don .
    I watched and listened very carefully . More than once . He could have said all that needed saying in a couple of sentences .

  4. #54
    Dejavudoo
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    Re: What do you think about the pope's new issue?

    No, he couldn't. Trust me.

    I've seen that crazed look in the eyes before. He couldn't stop to save his life.

  5. #55
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    Re: What do you think about the pope's new issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dejavudoo View Post
    No, he couldn't. Trust me.

    I've seen that crazed look in the eyes before. He couldn't stop to save his life.
    ^I know i can smell the stench of "burning martyr" all the way across the pond.......

  6. #56
    Dejavudoo
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    Re: What do you think about the pope's new issue?

    Yeah. I wish Big Brother and like ilk would be replaced with some sort of survival show with religious opposites being chained together for three months: Hindu and Muslim, Jesuit and Baptist, Atheist and Charismatic, Canadian and Texan.

    Not that reality shows are reality, but it would at least be a more interesting script that the sex-based co-ed whorehouse party bit.

  7. #57
    Bammer's Papa
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    Re: What do you think about the pope's new issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dejavudoo View Post
    Here is the clip of the episode that the priest cited as his proof:

    http://www.colbertnation.com/the-col...xrs=share_copy

    It becomes quite evident in viewing the clip that in fact Mr. Wills is no longer a Roman Catholic: he appears to have discovered the Protestant Reformation.
    Wills makes himself look foolish when he claims that only the Epistle to the Hebrews talks about priests. The early fathers acknowledge a continuity of ministry/office with priest, presbyter, etc., and those are found all through the Epistles.

    OTOH, he has good reason to "discovered the Protestant Reformation" -- Rome still persists in errors the Reformation pointed out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dejavudoo View Post
    But to Father Carpenter's point about individuals excommunicating themselves, it is a bit of a disingenuous position to argue that the rebel has beheaded himself in the Tower and that the State has only provided an axe. The Church has been more than willing to write the excommunication orders.

    But more to Carpenter's point, the heretic in this case knows he is espousing heresy, so any formal action which would follow would indeed be pro forma.

    It is a bit telling and ironic that Carpenter interprets Colbert's assumed onscreen character to be Colbert's belief. The priest's own zealotry is showing. He also goes on to make the error that claimed Mainline Christian denominations (not a Catholic term) agree on the content of the New Testament -- that is not so.

    In fairness to the priest, if a Catholic denies such a fundamental tenet of Catholicism, there is little left to claim.
    Which mainline denomination disagrees with Rome on the New Testament canon?

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  8. #58
    Dejavudoo
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    Re: What do you think about the pope's new issue?

    There would be disagreement on the certainty of authorship, as Wills stated, and not just of Hebrews.

    There would also be disagreements about various passages that are suspected to be later "corrections" to the text, like the ending of St. Mark's gospel.

    But, to the core books, none. The mainline churches only vary in the inclusion of the Apocrypha which is technically Old Testament, but more strictly, intertestamental, by definition.

    I should have been more clear in refuting the priest, as the books are set as NT canon. My reactionary response was stated too strongly, and was therefore inaccurate on the face of it.

  9. #59
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    Re: What do you think about the pope's new issue?

    I'm glad you guys enjoyed using Father Brian's video for discussion.

    I know Father Brian - he's my son's age, did his transitional Diaconate year at our parish. Sadly, the diocese goofed in the Seminary they sent him to - too many whack jobs. And, Brian is from the Ft. Wayne, IN area, originally - some of you may recall the "good" Bishop of Ft. Wayne firing an employee who used fertility treatments to have a baby.

    I haven't watched some of his more recent clips - I really should - especially post Pope Francis.


    And I know, if I'll only be true, to this glorious quest . . .

  10. #60

    Re: What do you think about the pope's new issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    … valid.
    Invalid to the Pope or invalid to you?
    .

  11. #61
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    Re: What do you think about the pope's new issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by pat grimshaw View Post
    Invalid to the Pope or invalid to you?
    Not valid according to the ancient fathers, and thus not valid.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  12. #62

    Re: What do you think about the pope's new issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    … the ancient fathers…
    Fair enough.





    (I'm glad that I and most other lapsed protestants don't have to rely on dead people to think for ourselves)
    .

  13. #63
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    Re: What do you think about the pope's new issue?

    On THAT topic - here's his view on "What Would Jesus Do"
    I did have a little exchange with him on that one.



    And I know, if I'll only be true, to this glorious quest . . .

  14. #64
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    Re: What do you think about the pope's new issue?

    Here is an update on our good Pope Francis - Time Magazine has decided the HE is their Person of the Year. . .

    http://poy.time.com/2013/12/11/perso...-peoples-pope/


    And I know, if I'll only be true, to this glorious quest . . .

  15. #65
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    Re: What do you think about the pope's new issue?

    This isn't DIRECTLY our good Pope Francis, but it is from his Order - The Jesuits - a great step.

    http://ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today...-Vu2w8.twitter


    And I know, if I'll only be true, to this glorious quest . . .

  16. #66
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    Re: What do you think about the pope's new issue?

    And, for those of you with some interest - "New Years Resolutions: The Pope Francis List"
    (A news journalist compiles a list from Pope Francis' comments.)

    http://www.rappler.com/move-ph/46933...francis-quotes


    And I know, if I'll only be true, to this glorious quest . . .

  17. #67
    nf fbt funw glbhuof gmhp SLOPPYSECONDS's Avatar
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    Re: What do you think about the pope's new issue?

    like rest planet earth group therapy organs
    2+2 =

    ha

  18. #68

    Re: What do you think about the pope's new issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dejavudoo View Post
    Yeah. I wish Big Brother and like ilk would be replaced with some sort of survival show with religious opposites being chained together for three months: Hindu and Muslim, Jesuit and Baptist, Atheist and Charismatic, Canadian and Texan.

    Not that reality shows are reality, but it would at least be a more interesting script that the sex-based co-ed whorehouse party bit.
    This needs to happen!

  19. #69
    JUB Addict The Fly's Avatar
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    Re: What do you think about the pope's new issue?

    Screw the Pope, just another brain damaged clod.

  20. #70
    JUB Addict mikey3000's Avatar
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    Re: What do you think about the pope's new issue?

    This Pope absolutely ROCKS!!! Yesterday he picked up a hitchhiker in the popemobile!!



    I am terrified that someone will harm him. I hope he is more careful. I think he is bringing the Catholic Church screaming and kicking into the 21st century.
    Inspired - but too tired.

  21. #71
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    Re: What do you think about the pope's new issue?

    He is the most REAL, Christlike Pope we've ever seen.


    And I know, if I'll only be true, to this glorious quest . . .

  22. #72
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    Re: What do you think about the pope's new issue?

    hope he a more then christlike
    * he missin ma nose *
    ooh who a youuuuuuuu_ pause _ gasp _ ooh figs
    * OY! slap *
    ooh

    anyway

    maybe awsum eva 1st public need anoda repeat 20000 yr figa sumthang

    thankyou

    so how da roman bread?
    * PUNCH *

  23. #73
    Dejavudoo
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    Re: What do you think about the pope's new issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by DonQuixote View Post
    He is the most REAL, Christlike Pope we've ever seen.
    I liken him to the greatness of Pope John XXIII, although the reform was of the Church more formally then, and His Holiness now seems to be approaching it more organically rather than merely institutionally. It would be good to read what Pope Francis thinks about Pope John XXIII and how much he credits him for laying groundwork for what is currently on the table.

    It occurred to me last week that popes never know how long they will be in office, as they pretty much have to be in the senior class to get elected. Pope John Paul II was younger than most when ascending the throne, and he lived long. I have to believe Pope Francis doesn't presume on his years, so whatever reforms he intends will be coming soon in some form.

    As he as rocked the boat dramatically and positively in his first year, it will be very interesting to see what unfolds in the next year or two.

    As for the naysayers, since this thread began, His Holiness was named Man-of-the-Year by such entities as unlikely and diverse as Esquire and The Advocate. In short, the Holy Father is garnering the attention normally afforded leaders like the Dalai Lama, a phenomenon we haven't seen recently here in the States with a pope. Sure, their visits are huge media circuses, but their day-to-day comments are usually as off-the-radar as a sermon in a Billy Graham Crusade

    Whereas it is true that dogma has not changed, the priorities have. For those who are accustomed to tilting at windmills in the HRCC for the sake of gays, it will become more and more difficult not to be marginalized in the process. Of course, as long as bishops lead opposition to gay rights legal initiatives and referenda, they will continue to be appropriate political targets. We will watch and see how Pope Francis' tone translates into a backdown from anti-gay legislative efforts.
    Last edited by Dejavudoo; January 10th, 2014 at 05:38 AM. Reason: Wrong kind of llama in the thread. . . . LOL

  24. #74
    I need water Kabluey's Avatar
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    ^ I agree.
    For too long hardened conservatives have comfortably told the world that extreme views have the personal backing of the big guy.
    It's good to see a Pope come out and strip away the authority of people who bandy about the god word while declaring wars, punishing poor people and discriminating against others.

    Seeing Fox news scrabbling about after he said greed wasn't good was hilarious:
    Why couldn't he just condemn gays and condoms like the last one?
    Blah blah blah, something enigmatic sounding...

  25. #75

    Re: What do you think about the pope's new issue?

    The Popes cause more poverty and suffering than any other individuals on earth. By telling desperately poor people that they may not use contraceptives, they guarantee the continued growth of population and poverty in Latin America. All of their and Francis's ranting against capitalism is an attempt to impose on others the obligation to make deep sacrifices to rescue Catholics from the poverty to which Catholicism condemns them. It also insures the continued endangerment of the environment. Then the church encourages illegal immigration to the US to takes US jobs and welfare. Now they have told Paul Ryan and Boehner to support amnesty for 11 million illegal Catholics in the US so thy can legally take jobs from Americans.
    The Catholic Church has no moral compass to tell the difference between right and wrong. The population explosion is only the most recent outrage:burning heretics and witches at the stake, supporting dictators against democracy, priests abusing children. The church never could see how wrong these are. It still honors some of the heretic burners as saints. St Robert Bellermine and St Thomas More, for example.
    Last edited by Benvolio; January 10th, 2014 at 01:23 PM.

  26. #76
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    Re: What do you think about the pope's new issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    The Popes cause more poverty and suffering than any other individuals on earth. By telling desperately poor people that they may not use contraceptives, they guarantee the continued growth of population and poverty in Latin America. All of their and Francis's ranting against capitalism is an attempt to impose on others the obligation to make deep sacrifices to rescue Catholics from the poverty to which Catholicism condemns them. It also insures the continued endangerment of the environment. Then the church encourages illegal immigration to the US to takes US jobs and welfare. Now they have told Paul Ryan and Boehner to support amnesty for 11 million illegal Catholics in the US so thy can legally take jobs from Americans.
    The Catholic Church has no moral compass to tell the difference between right and wrong. The population explosion is only the most recent outrage:burning heretics and witches at the stake, supporting dictators against democracy, priests abusing children. The church never could see how wrong these are. It still honors some of the heretic burners as saints. St Robert Bellermine and St Thomas More, for example.
    now is nots supa awsums 1st worlds public a interconnect alls shit or theys alls melons a stills suck teddys
    ?

    anyway

    flags up
    _ upppppppppppps _
    salute
    _splish_
    ooh

    thankyou

  27. #77
    JUB Addict figjam's Avatar
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    Re: What do you think about the pope's new issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by zombiekiller View Post
    http://www.latimes.com/world/worldno...,2183109.story

    Basically speaking, the pope is faulting the church for focusing so much on homosexuality and abortion.

    Homosexuality isn't even mentioned in the new testament, and yet the church has treated it like it's part of the 10 commandments (even though it's not).

    From the pope's own mouth



    I actually take issue with his answer. This is pretty much the love-the-person-hate-the-sin bullshit that we've been hearing from bigots.

    Try to think of it this way. They go out by the masses to vote against our rights. They tell us they love us, but they deny us basic rights in society. Is that really love or just bullshit?

    I'm seriously thinking about marrying my boyfriend/partner. I can't really see myself leaving him anytime soon or ever. But for now as it stands, our union will not be recognized and something as simple as visitation rights will be like jumping through 20 hoops. How on this green earth is that them showing they love us?

    I do give it to the pope for the following words.



    He's right. Homosexuality isn't even on the 10 commandments and it doesn't even show up in the new testament. The only parts of the bible it showed up was in the old testament right next to putting your neighbor to death for eating shellfish. And yet for decades the church has treated it like murder.
    "The Pope" should only concern you if you are catholic..... Why is this bothering you?

  28. #78
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    Re: What do you think about the pope's new issue?

    ? concern all life planet ans billion 1 thangs human apes fuck up right up second but no rush fins ya soaps

    thankyou

  29. #79

    Re: What do you think about the pope's new issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kabluey View Post
    ^ I agree.
    For too long hardened conservatives have comfortably told the world that extreme views have the personal backing of the big guy.
    It's good to see a Pope come out and strip away the authority of people who bandy about the god word while declaring wars, punishing poor people and discriminating against others.

    Seeing Fox news scrabbling about after he said greed wasn't good was hilarious:
    Why couldn't he just condemn gays and condoms like the last one?
    On one hand it's great to see this new LGBT tolerant Pope,

    and on the other,

    I am very skeptic about this sudden change in an institution that has been homophobic forever. Especially at a time when country after country LGBT rights have been regressing against us!

  30. #80
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    Re: What do you think about the pope's new issue?

    all institutions a full a centurys shit
    skeptic kind a all hung ans chop up eons agos civilized a courses

    anyway

    movies happy endin so dat okay

    ha

    thankyou

  31. #81
    JUB Addict figjam's Avatar
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    Re: What do you think about the pope's new issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by SLOPPYSECONDS View Post
    ? concern all life planet ans billion 1 thangs human apes fuck up right up second but no rush fins ya soaps

    thankyou

    yea..... right...... (?)..... you go boy.... (?)

  32. #82

    Re: What do you think about the pope's new issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by SLOPPYSECONDS View Post
    all institutions a full a centurys shit
    skeptic kind a all hung ans chop up eons agos civilized a courses

    anyway

    movies happy endin so dat okay

    ha

    thankyou
    Seriously WTF?

  33. #83
    JUB Addict figjam's Avatar
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    Re: What do you think about the pope's new issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by carey579 View Post
    Seriously WTF?
    He/she is drunk - ignore...

  34. #84
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    Re: What do you think about the pope's new issue?

    maybe a media dildos world ova make tv movie thang title

    seriously wtf

    ha

    no rush death no take holidays or got pay

    haaaaaa

  35. #85
    JUB Addict figjam's Avatar
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    Re: What do you think about the pope's new issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by SLOPPYSECONDS View Post
    maybe a media dildos world ova make tv movie thang title

    seriously wtf

    ha

    no rush death no take holidays or got pay

    haaaaaa


    *sigh*....... (idiot) . . .

  36. #86

    Re: What do you think about the pope's new issue?

    Sloppy seconds, someone needs to tell you. We cannot understand what you are saying, and no one tries to understand you..

  37. #87
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    Re: What do you think about the pope's new issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Sloppy seconds, someone needs to tell you. We cannot understand what you are saying, and no one tries to understand you..
    at a so sweet you but it okay lot planet understads a you fa eons

    why help wanted on moon eons ago

    haaaaaaaaaaaaa

    just case pope no a ice cream salesman

    thankyou

  38. #88
    Bammer's Papa
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    Re: What do you think about the pope's new issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Sloppy seconds, someone needs to tell you. We cannot understand what you are saying, and no one tries to understand you..
    Some of us understand him. When it's worth passing on, sometimes we translate.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  39. #89
    Dejavudoo
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    Re: What do you think about the pope's new issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    The Popes cause more poverty and suffering than any other individuals on earth. . . The church never could see how wrong these are. It still honors some of the heretic burners as saints. St Robert Bellermine and St Thomas More, for example.
    A similar litany of sins could be invoked against practically every great power we now see on the planet, be it nation or culture. People have behaved savagely to neighbors and subjects for time immemorial.

    The improvement in the message from the top is palpable and broadly read to be authentic, not mere manipulation of propaganda for self-interest. One need not celebrate Catholicism per se in order to be thankful for a change that will better humanity the world over.

    Quote Originally Posted by figjam View Post
    "The Pope" should only concern you if you are catholic..... Why is this bothering you?
    What a truly bizarre perspective. Russia should only concern the Russians, therefore we shouldn't care about their pronouncements for or against gays? Utah residents should be the only ones concerned about gay marriage rights in Utah? Mormons back Prop 8 in California so only Mormons should be concerned?

    Quote Originally Posted by carey579 View Post
    I am very skeptic about this sudden change in an institution that has been homophobic forever. Especially at a time when country after country LGBT rights have been regressing against us!
    There isn't a sudden change in the institution, but in the CEO. Like Vatican II, the institutional change will or won't follow to the degree the opposing forces, be they in the echelons of the hierarchy or at grassroots level, are successful in blunting the new tone or merely waiting it out.

    To the point about countries, that is all the more reason to welcome the new compassion by Pope Francis. His empire spans a great swath of the population of the planet. Again, the dogma has not changed, but the need to regard fellow humans with a loving compassion is quite refreshing from a polarizing force that has previously been all too happy to portray humanity as us and them.

  40. #90
    JUB Addict The Fly's Avatar
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    Re: What do you think about the pope's new issue?

    Yes, this Pope's so special and Christlike..................he's protecting and denying extradition of Archbishop Jozef Weslowski to his native Poland where he's been accused of sex abuse. He also stands accused of sex abuse in the Dominican Republic.

    This pope is no better than those who came before...................same circus, different clown.

  41. #91
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    Re: What do you think about the pope's new issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by DonQuixote View Post
    On THAT topic - here's his view on "What Would Jesus Do"
    I did have a little exchange with him on that one.

    Yes apparently, "What would father shawn think?" is more valuable than "what would jesus do?"
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  42. #92
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    Re: What do you think about the pope's new issue?

    Extradition is a complex issue. It doesn't turn the pope into a monster, or corrupt. Sovereignty is jealously guarded by nations and states all the time.

    In my first year of residing in New Mexico, a case of extradition was a hot topic here, as Mexico was refusing to extradite a murderer who fled to Mexico after beating to death his employer with a chair leg (in front of the victim's wife) while he attempted to rob them in a home invasion. Mexico objected to the extradition unless the death penalty would be waived. Methinks the corruption of Mexico's government and the cheapness of life at the hands of cartels muted the sentiment of the protest. It has more to do with Americans executing Mexicans.

    The Holy See doesn't have to be approving of sex abuse merely because it doesn't yield sovereignty.

    Some of you rabid anti-Catholics will never allow the HRCC to be anything other than the embodiment of the Death Star and the Sith. You are not the first to hold such a one-sided view. But, whether you ever concur or not, the majority of the West has seen the change for what it truly is, an improvement.

    It is a testament to the integrity of Pope Francis that he has been able to garner such near-universal goodwill in the wake of the recent years of negativism both from within and without the HRCC.

    The rancor about him carries more of an air of bitterness that the world isn't as embittered as those who wish the HRCC would die a sudden death as soon as possible.

  43. #93
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    Re: What do you think about the pope's new issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dejavudoo View Post
    Extradition is a complex issue. It doesn't turn the pope into a monster, or corrupt. Sovereignty is jealously guarded by nations and states all the time.

    In my first year of residing in New Mexico, a case of extradition was a hot topic here, as Mexico was refusing to extradite a murderer who fled to Mexico after beating to death his employer with a chair leg (in front of the victim's wife) while he attempted to rob them in a home invasion. Mexico objected to the extradition unless the death penalty would be waived. Methinks the corruption of Mexico's government and the cheapness of life at the hands of cartels muted the sentiment of the protest. It has more to do with Americans executing Mexicans.

    The Holy See doesn't have to be approving of sex abuse merely because it doesn't yield sovereignty.

    Some of you rabid anti-Catholics will never allow the HRCC to be anything other than the embodiment of the Death Star and the Sith. You are not the first to hold such a one-sided view. But, whether you ever concur or not, the majority of the West has seen the change for what it truly is, an improvement.

    It is a testament to the integrity of Pope Francis that he has been able to garner such near-universal goodwill in the wake of the recent years of negativism both from within and without the HRCC.

    The rancor about him carries more of an air of bitterness that the world isn't as embittered as those who wish the HRCC would die a sudden death as soon as possible.
    Having had close relatives who were victims of Catholicism in Ireland, this honestly comes across like telling a freed slave "Come on, cheer up! You were freed after all! Why the grudge?"
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  44. #94
    Dejavudoo
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    Re: What do you think about the pope's new issue?

    There are victims/enemies/expatriates of every nation and great power on the face of the planet.

    Citing the abuses or failures of said nations and institutions doesn't validate the absolutism embodied in the post.

    Precluding the possibility of Pope Francis' change of focus for the HRCC isn't required in order to agree that the abuses were real.

    It is good that the world isn't as acrimonious and unrealistic about the potential for change, else it would never occur.

    One need not be an apologist of all of Catholicism in order to applaud needed change and palpable improvement.

    To your invalid comparison equating support for Pope Francis with dismissive disregard, the analogy fails. One doesn't expect a descendent of America's slaves to now hate and despise our President Obama because he rules a nation that is the continuation of the same one that benefitted from the riches exploited from both slavery and colonialism. You made my point for me. Thank you.
    Last edited by Dejavudoo; January 11th, 2014 at 10:03 AM.

  45. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    The Popes cause more poverty and suffering than any other individuals on earth. By telling desperately poor people that they may not use contraceptives, they guarantee the continued growth of population and poverty in Latin America. All of their and Francis's ranting against capitalism is an attempt to impose on others the obligation to make deep sacrifices to rescue Catholics from the poverty to which Catholicism condemns them. It also insures the continued endangerment of the environment. Then the church encourages illegal immigration to the US to takes US jobs and welfare. Now they have told Paul Ryan and Boehner to support amnesty for 11 million illegal Catholics in the US so thy can legally take jobs from Americans.
    The Catholic Church has no moral compass to tell the difference between right and wrong. The population explosion is only the most recent outrage:burning heretics and witches at the stake, supporting dictators against democracy, priests abusing children. The church never could see how wrong these are. It still honors some of the heretic burners as saints. St Robert Bellermine and St Thomas More, for example.
    The good news is he is more influential than a nobody who seeks any excuse to spout the same nonsense claptrap about immigrants and poor people.

    Do you seriously think you've ever changed a single opinion on here?

    The Pope has the ability to influence and attitudes and change the behavior of an entire religion.
    That makes him almost as powerful as the owner of Fox News, from whom you quote your own paranoid parables frequently.
    Blah blah blah, something enigmatic sounding...

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    Re: What do you think about the pope's new issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fly View Post
    Yes, this Pope's so special and Christlike..................he's protecting and denying extradition of Archbishop Jozef Weslowski to his native Poland where he's been accused of sex abuse. He also stands accused of sex abuse in the Dominican Republic.

    This pope is no better than those who came before...................same circus, different clown.
    Just because he's not perfect doesn't mean he's not better.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  47. #97
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    Re: What do you think about the pope's new issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    Yes apparently, "What would father shawn think?" is more valuable than "what would jesus do?"
    LOL

    His "answers" are just too pat, especially the bit where he basically says that obviously Jesus gave us the Roman church to stand in for Him -- exactly the thing that any denomination is going to argue. I find it disgusting for Rome to continue to claim to be the sole heir to Jesus, and more so when the pronouncement is so glib.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  48. #98
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    Re: What do you think about the pope's new issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dejavudoo View Post
    Extradition is a complex issue. It doesn't turn the pope into a monster, or corrupt. Sovereignty is jealously guarded by nations and states all the time.

    In my first year of residing in New Mexico, a case of extradition was a hot topic here, as Mexico was refusing to extradite a murderer who fled to Mexico after beating to death his employer with a chair leg (in front of the victim's wife) while he attempted to rob them in a home invasion. Mexico objected to the extradition unless the death penalty would be waived. Methinks the corruption of Mexico's government and the cheapness of life at the hands of cartels muted the sentiment of the protest. It has more to do with Americans executing Mexicans.

    The Holy See doesn't have to be approving of sex abuse merely because it doesn't yield sovereignty.

    Some of you rabid anti-Catholics will never allow the HRCC to be anything other than the embodiment of the Death Star and the Sith. You are not the first to hold such a one-sided view. But, whether you ever concur or not, the majority of the West has seen the change for what it truly is, an improvement.

    It is a testament to the integrity of Pope Francis that he has been able to garner such near-universal goodwill in the wake of the recent years of negativism both from within and without the HRCC.

    The rancor about him carries more of an air of bitterness that the world isn't as embittered as those who wish the HRCC would die a sudden death as soon as possible.
    It's also worth noting that the Vatican has him under investigation and is said to be cooperating with prosecutors from the Dominican Republic, where he is also accused. Beyond that, it has to be pointed out that he couldn't be prosecuted in the United States had he committed any sexual crimes here, because he was the equivalent of an ambassador and therefor under international law enjoys diplomatic immunity.

    Of interest in this situation is that citizens of the Vatican can be prosecuted for crimes against Vatican law even when not committed on Vatican soil, and that avenue is being pursued -- so if it is established that he committed sexual abuse in either the Dominican Republic or in Poland, he will be doing jail time in Vatican City... and Vatican legal authorities are trying to figure a way to apply their newer laws against sexual abuse to be applied retroactively, since the allegations are from before the change in statutes. Trial for crimes committed outside the Vatican allows testimony from the jurisdiction where the crime(s) took place, so if prosecutors in either country alleging crimes want to, they can become part of a prosecution within the Vatican.

    And that would actually be Francis' best route: complete the Vatican investigation, and then invite prosecutors from both Poland and the Dominican Republic to present their cases at the Vatican as well.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  49. #99
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    Re: What do you think about the pope's new issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kabluey View Post
    Do you seriously think you've ever changed a single opinion on here?
    Actually he has, along with a certain other: he's driven people farther away from even considering voting for the GOP.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  50. #100
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    Re: What do you think about the pope's new issue?

    My good Father Brian's latest Video - this one regarding the University of Notre Dame not being granted a religious exemption from the HHS mandate to include Hormonal Control prescriptions in their employee and student health care plans.



    I have replied to him in the You Tube thread. The p.s. just gives him a frame of reference that helps verify that yes, I DO know him personally - it was a Facebook post of his this past week.


    And I know, if I'll only be true, to this glorious quest . . .

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