JustUsBoys.com gay porn forum

logo

remove these banner ads by becoming a JUB Supporter.

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 123 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 100 of 158

Thread: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

      
   
  1. #51
    Seeking a free country
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    96,761
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    Maybe the problem is that fewer and fewer people are getting treatment, due to lack of insurance.
    That's probably a big part of it. But another big part is that even if one does have insurance, actually getting care in a crisis is virtually impossible -- ever since Reagan trashed the mental health care infrastructure, people have been on their own, to the detriment of not just them but everyone else.

    The GOP have become incredible social Darwinists.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  2. #52
    Seeking a free country
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    96,761
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by palbert View Post
    I bring to this thread the concerns I have so aggressively addressed in the NSA/FBI/DEA/DOJ/surveillance thread(s).

    This incident makes me wonder if I need worry at all. There are enough markers (I think they call them) here to make a security officer's skin crawl. Instead, our security elements at the facility are dead or wounded.

    Is the government so unwieldy that markers - from its own data, if accessed - cannot be identified?

    The government can collect all of the communication data on a miscreant it wants, but if the government doesn't realize he's a miscreant in the first place, what purpose is served by collecting the data?

    Stupid, stupid, stupid.

    [/RANT]
    As with the police officer who recently shot a man running to him for help, out government has become quite good at putting firearms into the hands of people whose competence they never actually even checked. It's a sobering thought that people actually want the government deciding who should and who should not have firearms, when the evidence suggests they're very bad at it.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  3. #53
    Seeking a free country
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    96,761
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    This latest asshole had all the insurance of the federal government and military. My guess is that the military and fed government wants to be PC and not address the issues he has. Very similar to the asshole that killed at the people at Ft. Hood -- the US Army looked the other way after all the clues.
    Not very competent at providing for the security of a free state....

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  4. #54
    Seeking a free country
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    96,761
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    And he spurned it.

    Thanks for proving my point that improving mental healthcare is a non-solution to someone going on a gun rampage.

    Look what the kid did in Connecticut when his mom told him she wanted to put him into mental healthcare.
    The question is whether anyone carrying a firearm around, or with access to do so, should even have the choice to avoid getting care.

    Keeping and bearing arms is a right, but it is also, in terms of being a member of the militia, a responsibility. Those choosing to carry must have the conviction of their choice, and that includes being sure that they are actually competent to participate in providing for the security of a free state. Those not competent should be eager to be denied access to arms, knowing that for them, such access is a detriment to the security of a free state.

    We need to begin thinking about this altogether differently, not in terms of politics as usual, but in the terms the FFs and Framers thought in, that citizenship includes responsibility. We have to begin at the point of membership in the militia, and the solemn duty involved there. Wayne La Pierre loves to cry about rights, but he rarely ever utters a single word about responsibility -- but the two cannot be separated. Someone exercising the right to keep and bear arms by carrying in public must also acknowledge and accept the responsibility of having volunteered to participate in providing for the security of a free state, and that means accepting proper discipline.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  5. #55
    soooooo collllldddd rareboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Partnered
    Posts
    31,108

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orlandude View Post
    The new face of terrorism. Large targeted terrorist acts like 9/11 are now too hard to carry out. We will see more of this kind of thing.
    Boy....I'll bet you feel more than a little ridiculous now.

  6. #56
    Do I dare to eat a peach?
    palbert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Coastal Downeast Maine
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    9,509

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    That's probably a big part of it. But another big part is that even if one does have insurance, actually getting care in a crisis is virtually impossible -- ever since Reagan trashed the mental health care infrastructure, people have been on their own, to the detriment of not just them but everyone else.

    The GOP have become incredible social Darwinists.
    I'm not so sure how to lay this at Reagan's feet.

    I see the genesis of the present problem as O'Connor v. Donaldson:

    O'Connor v. Donaldson, 422 U.S. 563 (1975), was a landmark decision in mental health law. The United States Supreme Court ruled that a state cannot constitutionally confine a non-dangerous individual who is capable of surviving safely in freedom by themselves or with the help of willing and responsible family members or friends. Since the trial court jury found, upon ample evidence, that petitioner did so confine respondent, the Supreme Court upheld the trial court's conclusion that petitioner had violated respondent's right to liberty.
    I think the "non-dangerous" part needs to be revisited. The descendants of the decision, including the Baker Act, fail to take into account immediacy.

  7. #57

    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    From this morning's news it appears that the man recently went to the VA for mental health help over hearing voices.

    So access to mental health help is not the issue.

    He got the guns he used from within the building.

    It seems the problem is screening and his secret access.

    The people who investigated and granted his access are the ones in trouble.
    "That’s the good thing about being president. I can do whatever I want.” Barack Obama, 2-10-14

  8. #58
    Do I dare to eat a peach?
    palbert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Coastal Downeast Maine
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    9,509

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Reports that the shooter who killed a dozen people in Monday’s Washington Navy Yard attack was hearing voices raises the possibility of mental illness -- but it’s not a diagnosis, experts say.
    http://www.nbcnews.com/health/not-di...ght-4B11186594

    I have a lot of trouble with this. Hearing voices? Something is very obviously wrong. "Voices" seem to not tell one to garden.

  9. #59
    Virtus in medio stat JUB Admin opinterph's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Jawja
    Status
    Partnered
    Posts
    20,596
    Blog Entries
    14

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    He got the guns he used from within the building.
    Recent reports seem to question that assumption. One commentator I heard yesterday even suggested that the assailant brought a shotgun and 2 handguns with him into the facility.

    Contrary to previous reports that had been widely circulated, [the gunman at the historic Washington Navy Yard] did not use an AR-15 semiautomatic weapon. [LA Times]
    It is believed that [the gunman at the historic Washington Navy Yard] had rented an AR-15, but returned it before Monday morning's shootings. Authorities are still investigating precisely how many weapons Alexis had access to and when. [CNN]

  10. #60

    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Sorry, I was wrong, he did purchase a shotgun as recently as Saturday ... but not sure he had it with him.
    "That’s the good thing about being president. I can do whatever I want.” Barack Obama, 2-10-14

  11. #61

    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by palbert View Post
    http://www.nbcnews.com/health/not-di...ght-4B11186594

    I have a lot of trouble with this. Hearing voices? Something is very obviously wrong. "Voices" seem to not tell one to garden.
    It's all about being politically and socially 'correct'.
    "That’s the good thing about being president. I can do whatever I want.” Barack Obama, 2-10-14

  12. #62
    soooooo collllldddd rareboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Partnered
    Posts
    31,108

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Sorry, I was wrong, he did purchase a shotgun as recently as Saturday ... but not sure he had it with him.
    Remember to keep looking over your shoulder as you are pedalling backwards.

  13. #63

    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    Remember to keep looking over your shoulder as you are pedalling backwards.
    At least I'm honest and admit when I'm wrong. Something you don't do.
    "That’s the good thing about being president. I can do whatever I want.” Barack Obama, 2-10-14

  14. #64
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Boystown, Chicago
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    8,631

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Which is why a new Militia Act should provide for mental health resources for everyone, any time.
    Have you not been reading ANYTHING Buzzer and I have said in this topic?
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  15. #65
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Boystown, Chicago
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    8,631

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    The question is whether anyone carrying a firearm around, or with access to do so, should even have the choice to avoid getting care.

    Keeping and bearing arms is a right, but it is also, in terms of being a member of the militia, a responsibility. Those choosing to carry must have the conviction of their choice, and that includes being sure that they are actually competent to participate in providing for the security of a free state. Those not competent should be eager to be denied access to arms, knowing that for them, such access is a detriment to the security of a free state.

    We need to begin thinking about this altogether differently, not in terms of politics as usual, but in the terms the FFs and Framers thought in, that citizenship includes responsibility. We have to begin at the point of membership in the militia, and the solemn duty involved there. Wayne La Pierre loves to cry about rights, but he rarely ever utters a single word about responsibility -- but the two cannot be separated. Someone exercising the right to keep and bear arms by carrying in public must also acknowledge and accept the responsibility of having volunteered to participate in providing for the security of a free state, and that means accepting proper discipline.
    Just like buzzer said. Willing to stomp on every right to keep the ONE that you're obsessed with. Let me repeat it, cause you clearly haven't gotten the memo: THERE. IS. NO. MILITIA. THERE. HASN'T. BEEN. ONE. FOR. CENTURIES.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  16. #66
    Do I dare to eat a peach?
    palbert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Coastal Downeast Maine
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    9,509

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    The question is whether anyone carrying a firearm around, or with access to do so, should even have the choice to avoid getting care.

    Keeping and bearing arms is a right, but it is also, in terms of being a member of the militia, a responsibility. Those choosing to carry must have the conviction of their choice, and that includes being sure that they are actually competent to participate in providing for the security of a free state. Those not competent should be eager to be denied access to arms, knowing that for them, such access is a detriment to the security of a free state.

    We need to begin thinking about this altogether differently, not in terms of politics as usual, but in the terms the FFs and Framers thought in, that citizenship includes responsibility. We have to begin at the point of membership in the militia, and the solemn duty involved there. Wayne La Pierre loves to cry about rights, but he rarely ever utters a single word about responsibility -- but the two cannot be separated. Someone exercising the right to keep and bear arms by carrying in public must also acknowledge and accept the responsibility of having volunteered to participate in providing for the security of a free state, and that means accepting proper discipline.
    I am reminded of Professor Pangloss and Candide:

    1) Pangloss teaches that everything is for the best and that man lives in the "best of all possible worlds."
    2) When Pangloss explains that Cunegonde has been killed, Candide passes out. Upon awakening, he muses, "Ah, best of worlds, what's become of you now?
    http://www.novelguide.com/candide/toptenquotes

  17. #67
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Posts
    9,390

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    The question is whether anyone carrying a firearm around, or with access to do so, should even have the choice to avoid getting care.

    Keeping and bearing arms is a right, but it is also, in terms of being a member of the militia, a responsibility. Those choosing to carry must have the conviction of their choice, and that includes being sure that they are actually competent to participate in providing for the security of a free state. Those not competent should be eager to be denied access to arms, knowing that for them, such access is a detriment to the security of a free state.

    We need to begin thinking about this altogether differently, not in terms of politics as usual, but in the terms the FFs and Framers thought in, that citizenship includes responsibility. We have to begin at the point of membership in the militia, and the solemn duty involved there. Wayne La Pierre loves to cry about rights, but he rarely ever utters a single word about responsibility -- but the two cannot be separated. Someone exercising the right to keep and bear arms by carrying in public must also acknowledge and accept the responsibility of having volunteered to participate in providing for the security of a free state, and that means accepting proper discipline.
    You are correct that the framers intended a responsibility in the citizenry of watchfulness and that this was expressed in part through the statement that IN ORDER TO MAINTAIN A WELL TRAINED MILITIA the right to bear firearms would not be infringed.

    Which is why I am a bit puzzled that you rather routinely insist that the right for every Tom Dick and Harry to have massive firepower is an entitlement that should continue to remain an entitlement regardless of whether or not any militia exists or any form of responsible training or qualification is required, as would logically follow from an express statement that the right to bear firearms is directly tied to the maintenance of a citizen militia.

    I have no problem with a State Reservist or National Guardsman with the proper training having a firearm. I have a problem with the fact that any slovenly off-meds person who posts hate about black people on facebook or is really pissed off about his layoff can walk into stores and get guns and high capacity ammo clips.

  18. #68
    Virtus in medio stat JUB Admin opinterph's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Jawja
    Status
    Partnered
    Posts
    20,596
    Blog Entries
    14

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    … I am a bit puzzled that you rather routinely insist that the right for every Tom Dick and Harry to have massive firepower is an entitlement that should continue to remain an entitlement regardless of whether or not any militia exists or any form of responsible training or qualification is required, as would logically follow from an express statement that the right to bear firearms is directly tied to the maintenance of a citizen militia.
    The Supreme Court found in District of Columbia v. Heller that an individual right to keep and bear arms is not limited by the announced purpose (for a well regulated militia) that is enumerated in the Second Amendment. [Link]

  19. #69
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Posts
    9,390

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post
    The Supreme Court found in District of Columbia v. Heller that an individual right to keep and bear arms is not limited by the announced purpose (for a well regulated militia) that is enumerated in the Second Amendment. [Link]
    Yes, and it needs revisiting.

  20. #70
    Virtus in medio stat JUB Admin opinterph's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Jawja
    Status
    Partnered
    Posts
    20,596
    Blog Entries
    14

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    Yes, and it needs revisiting.
    Any substantive change would probably require an Amendment to the Constitution.

    … The Antifederalists feared that the Federal Government would disarm the people in order to disable this citizens’ militia, enabling a politicized standing army or a select militia to rule. The response was to deny Congress power to abridge the ancient right of individuals to keep and bear arms, so that the ideal of a citizens’ militia would be preserved. [LII]

  21. #71
    Do I dare to eat a peach?
    palbert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Coastal Downeast Maine
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    9,509

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post
    Any substantive change would probably require an Amendment to the Constitution.
    No doubt true, but subject to SCOTUS' finding of what constitutes "arms."

    A strict constructionist might be in a bind here if the court finds that multi-shot weapons were not contemplated by the FF and thus do not constitute "arms."

    The definition of "arms" could be revisited as SCOTUS finds.

  22. #72
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Posts
    9,390

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by palbert View Post
    No doubt true, but subject to SCOTUS' finding of what constitutes "arms."

    A strict constructionist might be in a bind here if the court finds that multi-shot weapons were not contemplated by the FF and thus do not constitute "arms."

    The definition of "arms" could be revisited as SCOTUS finds.
    Indeed. I know the discussion was already touched upon here, months ago, that the founding fathers did not mean that individual citizens should keep cannons and similar as private home defense against the government weaponry. Under the interpretation that the pro-gun camp would have us accept, there is absolutely no reason that our right to have private live-armed tanks and combat helicopters and nuclear warheads should be restricted in any way, yet they are.

  23. #73
    What's next? chrisrobin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    7,826

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    .
    Is it okay if I keep a shoulder-mounted SAM (surface to air missile)?

  24. #74
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Posts
    9,390

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrobin View Post
    .
    Is it okay if I keep a shoulder-mounted SAM (surface to air missile)?
    The ironic thing is that while you're not allowed to have that, that's more in line of what you'd need in any realistic scenario of using your private weapons to fight government tyranny one day than a handgun.

  25. #75

    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    This tragedy is more about how the treatment of mental illness is failing and not about the guns.

    Navy Yard, Sandy Hook, Aurora-Colorado, Tucson-Arizona -- all the men were under the care of mental health professionals at the time of their murder sprees.
    "That’s the good thing about being president. I can do whatever I want.” Barack Obama, 2-10-14

  26. #76
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Boystown, Chicago
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    8,631

    Code of Conduct
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    This tragedy is more about how the treatment of mental illness is failing and not about the guns.
    Yeah, no, that's not the tragedy. Spare us the sanctimonious bullshit please.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  27. #77
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Posts
    9,390

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    This tragedy is more about how the treatment of mental illness is failing and not about the guns.

    Navy Yard, Sandy Hook, Aurora-Colorado, Tucson-Arizona -- all the men were under the care of mental health professionals at the time of their murder sprees.
    That's because seeing a therapist yesterday, or a week ago, or a month ago, is not a guarantee that a severely disturbed person won't go on a rampage and murder 20 people.

    They'd have a much harder time doing that if they didn't have easy access to firearms with high capacity ammo clips and semiautomatic firing rates.

    Btw Jack there are NO cures for some mental disorders, and schizophrenia is one of them. So you can flap your lips till they're bloody about how this is a failure of mental healthcare but as long as you support and defend this being a country where guns are laying around in huge numbers with minimal regulations on acquiring them, there will be the combination of deranged people and guns capable of these kinds of rampages.

    Btw severe mental disorder including schizophrenia are highly overrepresented in the homeless population. Isn't it interesting that so few of these mass public killing sprees are conducted by homeless people. Could it be because they don't have the ability to purchase guns, financially and otherwise? Hmm.
    Last edited by xbuzzerx; September 18th, 2013 at 05:08 PM.

  28. #78
    Do I dare to eat a peach?
    palbert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Coastal Downeast Maine
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    9,509

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    This tragedy is more about how the treatment of mental illness is failing and not about the guns.

    Navy Yard, Sandy Hook, Aurora-Colorado, Tucson-Arizona -- all the men were under the care of mental health professionals at the time of their murder sprees.
    First, I can think of 12 people and more families that might take exception to your casting of the precipitating cause of this tragedy.

    Second, I have not seen that this miscreant fully disclosed to mental health professionals the scope and symptoms of his disorder. It is difficult to see how the profession failed him.

  29. #79
    Virtus in medio stat JUB Admin opinterph's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Jawja
    Status
    Partnered
    Posts
    20,596
    Blog Entries
    14

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    This tragedy is more about how the treatment of mental illness is failing and not about the guns.

    Navy Yard, Sandy Hook, Aurora-Colorado, Tucson-Arizona -- all the men were under the care of mental health professionals at the time of their murder sprees.
    And the Fort Hood shooter was a psychiatrist himself.

  30. #80
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Posts
    9,390

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by palbert View Post
    First, I can think of 12 people and more families that might take exception to your casting of the precipitating cause of this tragedy.

    Second, I have not seen that this miscreant fully disclosed to mental health professionals the scope and symptoms of his disorder. It is difficult to see how the profession failed him.
    I very much get the impression that the gun camp is happy believing in magical-presto that if someone at any point encounters a mental health professional, the threat in society of high firepower weapons being everywhere and available on extremely minimal checks (with no comprehensive component for mental health) should somehow be magically taken care of. There are disorders that can't be treated. There are disorders that take months or years of treatment and medication and in any of that time someone might go off meds or have a very bad episode and go on a rampage (Virginia Tech). Simply saying mental healthcare failed the shooters and there is no gun problem in the U.S. is magical thinking at its finest.

    I also suspect based on everything I've seen and heard argued that the gun camp would vehemently oppose a system like Israel's, where you need a formal psychiatric evaluation before you may purchase a firearm. I also suspect that for as much as we're repeatedly told that gun owners are a far superior breed to the everyday man, a great many of them would not pass such an evaluation in this country were it implemented.

    Blaming mental healthcare if one wouldn't support what the gun lobby in this country would UNDOUBTEDLY label as an unconstitutional violation of privacy by requiring a mental health check prior to the purchase of any firearm is simply blame shifting, simple as that. Because they aren't interested in a real solution with any shot of actually reducing the problem, merely trying to get everyone to blame a problem that can't be solved (like poverty, mental illness or whatever else) and not blaming the one thing that could actually be worked on in any practical manner to prevent massive firepower + very disturbed, angry or disgruntled person from gunning down a crowd.

  31. #81
    JUB Addict T-Rexx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    4,398

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    This tragedy is more about how the treatment of mental illness is failing and not about the guns.

    Navy Yard, Sandy Hook, Aurora-Colorado, Tucson-Arizona -- all the men were under the care of mental health professionals at the time of their murder sprees.
    There are crazy people all over the world.

    But only in the United States do they regularly mass murder people.

    Why do you suppose that is?
    Last edited by T-Rexx; September 18th, 2013 at 05:53 PM.

  32. #82

    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Looks like I stepped on some toes.

    If we intend to ever stop these senseless killings then everything has to be on the table. There's plenty of fault to go around. I'm not a fan of 'super' automatic weapons and see no need for them in anyone's daily life.

    I also think we need to accept the fact that some people can't fit into society. Pedophiles cannot be reformed and need to be locked up, many of the mentally ill need to be locked up also. I'm sorry but if we are serious we have to do something, something that some people are going to be upset with.
    "That’s the good thing about being president. I can do whatever I want.” Barack Obama, 2-10-14

  33. #83
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Posts
    9,390

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Looks like I stepped on some toes.

    If we intend to ever stop these senseless killings then everything has to be on the table. There's plenty of fault to go around. I'm not a fan of 'super' automatic weapons and see no need for them in anyone's daily life.

    I also think we need to accept the fact that some people can't fit into society. Pedophiles cannot be reformed and need to be locked up, many of the mentally ill need to be locked up also. I'm sorry but if we are serious we have to do something, something that some people are going to be upset with.
    Yes. You are right. If we are serious we need to do something.

    Let me be clear about that: that doesn't mean "something, but anything other than doing more to keep guns out of the hands of people who have no business using them, and guns that serve no purpose other than to kill large numbers of people." In fact that's by far the most direct and practical thing we can work on.

  34. #84

    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    ^^

    ... and we need to lock up people that cannot live within society.
    "That’s the good thing about being president. I can do whatever I want.” Barack Obama, 2-10-14

  35. #85
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Posts
    9,390

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    ^^

    ... and we need to lock up people that cannot live within society.
    And the ones who are living invisibly or in families that do not really believe in mental healthcare, and simply don't expect their relative to pick up their firearms and go on a rampage?

    That covers a fair amount of spree shooters. Possibly most.

    These kinds of answers are utterly worthless because the sort of invasiveness that would be required to somehow forcibly and reliably find everyone with a potentially dangerous mental illness out there and somehow force care on them would not only be draconian but would also be immensely expensive. Something your political aisle would be utterly against on virtually any other topic.

  36. #86
    FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE! TX-Beau's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Austin
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Open Relationship
    Posts
    7,896

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    "...Secondly, if more guns, and access to more guns, is the answer to curbing shooting sprees, then why haven't more guns curbed shooting sprees? As Mother Jones noted, nearly 100 state laws loosening gun restrictions have been passed in the last four years, yet 2012 was the worst year for mass shootings in recent history...."

    http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/09...un-free/195927

    Aside from the curious fact that the usual suspects in here haven't started blaming Clinton yet (chop chop! you're asleep at your posts!)...

    2nd Amendment arguments are BOGUS smokescreens. We Already had better gun regulation PERFECTLY constitutionally!

    No need for amendments, referendums or frikkin' SC decisions.

    We are LOOSENING our gun regulations, trying to go back to better regulations is NOT FUCKING TRYING to do something new, illegal and terrifyingly Un-American.

    ANYONE who says otherwise is either lying or ignorant.
    Last edited by opinterph; September 18th, 2013 at 08:01 PM. Reason: added quote tags
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

  37. #87
    FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE! TX-Beau's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Austin
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Open Relationship
    Posts
    7,896

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    ^^

    ... and we need to lock up people that cannot live within society.
    Well since the right closed all the state institutions, you know who you can blame for that.
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

  38. #88
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Posts
    9,390

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    Well since the right closed all the state institutions, you know who you can blame for that.
    I feel the need to re-point out that many homeless people suffer mental illness that warrants institutionalization and yet you don't see a lot of homeless people committing these mass murders.

    Because they don't have easy access to firearms.

  39. #89
    Do I dare to eat a peach?
    palbert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Coastal Downeast Maine
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    9,509

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    Well since the right closed all the state institutions, you know who you can blame for that.
    I'm not sure the right or anything other than attrition closed them. From the cases it stands to reason that it became very difficult to put people like Blanche DuBois into an institution.
    Last edited by opinterph; September 18th, 2013 at 08:13 PM. Reason: fixed broken link

  40. #90
    FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE! TX-Beau's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Austin
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Open Relationship
    Posts
    7,896

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Reagan did it. Look it up.
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

  41. #91
    FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE! TX-Beau's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Austin
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Open Relationship
    Posts
    7,896

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    I feel the need to re-point out that many homeless people suffer mental illness that warrants institutionalization and yet you don't see a lot of homeless people committing these mass murders.

    Because they don't have easy access to firearms.
    I don't disagree with you, and notice how none of the staunch defenders of the American Way in here have said peep about how a crazy person was able to LEGALLY purchase a shotgun.

    Or the APPALLINGLY obvious way to stop more people with RECORDS of crazy from getting guns.

    Their arguments get more and more asinine with every preventable tragedy.
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

  42. #92
    FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE! TX-Beau's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Austin
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Open Relationship
    Posts
    7,896

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    I also find some black humor in the fact that he shot the guards WITH GUNS then picked up their weapons.

    Too bad they weren't armed schoolteachers who would have been prepared for such a thing.
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

  43. #93
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Boystown, Chicago
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    8,631

    Code of Conduct
    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    I also find some black humor in the fact that he shot the guards WITH GUNS then picked up their weapons.

    Too bad they weren't armed schoolteachers who would have been prepared for such a thing.
    Or even better - armed school children. Wait for the crickets to respond with fuzzy silence to the homeless argument as well as the other ones that actually make sense. I'm expected some more lofty rhetoric dealing with the need for regulating "the militia", whatever that's supposed to be...
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  44. #94
    Do I dare to eat a peach?
    palbert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Coastal Downeast Maine
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    9,509

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    Reagan did it. Look it up.
    With the exception of California the move away from institutionalization was accomplished well before he became president.

    The United States has experienced two waves of deinstitutionalisation. The first wave began in the 1950s and targeted people with mental illness.[1] The second wave began roughly 15 years later and focused on individuals who had been diagnosed with a developmental disability (e.g. mental retardation).[1] Deinstitutionalisation continues today, though the movements are growing smaller as fewer people are sent to institutions.

    Numerous social forces led to a move for deinstitutionalisation; researchers generally give credit to six main factors: criticisms of public mental hospitals, incorporation of mind-altering drugs in treatment, support from President Kennedy for federal policy changes, shifts to community-based care, changes in public perception, and individual states' desires to reduce costs from mental hospitals.[1]
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinstitutionalisation

    HOW RELEASE OF MENTAL PATIENTS BEGAN
    Written in 1984, this article lays the presidential blame at feet of Presidents Eisenhower, Kennedy and Johnson. By Reagan's presidency the mental health foundation was in disarray.

    http://www.nytimes.com/1984/10/30/sc...l?pagewanted=1

    http://www.law.uchicago.edu/files/fi...ceration_0.pdf

    Pay particular note to graphs 1 and 2, page 6, showing the decline in numbers of those in mental health institutions and the corresponding increase in the prison population.

    (I do admit to the error of suggesting the courts played a key role. They mirrored what was taking place in the broader society.)

  45. #95
    JUB Addict T-Rexx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    4,398

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    ... and we need to lock up people that cannot live within society.
    That would be an 18th century approach to the problem.

  46. #96
    Do I dare to eat a peach?
    palbert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Coastal Downeast Maine
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    9,509

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Would have trouble locking this miscreant up.

    Less than a month before he went on the shooting rampage that killed 12 people, Washington Navy Yard gunman Aaron Alexis twice visited U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs medical centers to seek treatment for insomnia but, when asked by doctors, he denied having thoughts about harming himself or others, the department said Wednesday.
    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-...-aaron-alexis/

  47. #97

    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    I also find some black humor in the fact that he shot the guards WITH GUNS then picked up their weapons.

    Too bad they weren't armed schoolteachers who would have been prepared for such a thing.
    Hopefully this will shut up people who think that all schools should have armed guards and armed teachers.
    "That’s the good thing about being president. I can do whatever I want.” Barack Obama, 2-10-14

  48. #98

    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    Reagan did it. Look it up.
    I think you need to read a little more about the history of being politically correct.
    "That’s the good thing about being president. I can do whatever I want.” Barack Obama, 2-10-14

  49. #99
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Boystown, Chicago
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    8,631

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    That would be an 18th century approach to the problem.
    So totally in sync with Republican mentality.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  50. #100

    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    What's your solution?
    "That’s the good thing about being president. I can do whatever I want.” Barack Obama, 2-10-14

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Terms of Service | Privacy Policy | About JustUsBoys.com | Site Map | RSS | Webmasters | Advertise | Link to JUB | Report A Bug on this Page

Visit our sister sites: Broke Straight Boys | CollegeDudes.com | CollegeBoyPhysicals.com | RocketTube
All models appearing on JustUsBoys.com were over 18 at the time of photography. The records for sexually explicit images required by U.S. 2257 are kept by the
individual producers of the images. The location of the records is available by clicking the Custodian of Records link at the bottom of each gallery page.
© 2012 JustUsBoys.com. The JustUsBoys.com name and logo are registered trademarks. Labeled with ICRA and RTA. Member of ASACP and The Free Speech Coalition.