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    JUB Addict chrisrobin's Avatar
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    Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    .
    Multiple shots were fired around 8:20 a.m. ET Monday in a building on the grounds of the U.S. Navy Yard in Washington, D.C., the Navy confirmed just minutes later, and there were reports of injuries.
    A daily shooting is like a day without sunshine.

    In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

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    JUB Addict chrisrobin's Avatar
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    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrobin View Post
    .

    A daily shooting is like a day without sunshine.
    Five shooting victims - two officers.

    In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

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    JUB Addict T-Rexx's Avatar
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    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Four dead so far, eight injured.

    There appear to be two shooters, as of this posting.


    http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/...549_story.html

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    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Here we go again.
    Shooting death ... it doesn't raise my eyebrows.


    NEVER LISTEN TO A ONE SIDED STORY AND JUDGE.

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    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Well since it was a black guy who was apparently shooting...get ready for the gun crazy Americans to start calling for more restrictions on firearm use. although isn't this why all the white folk have armed themselves to the teeth?

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    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    If only the military had gun this would never..........

    Oh wait.
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

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    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    The new face of terrorism. Large targeted terrorist acts like 9/11 are now too hard to carry out. We will see more of this kind of thing.

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    How is this terrorism? O.o
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  9. #9
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    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    I don't think it's 'terrorism' as such.

    It's been quoted here on the news that the gunman had a 'recent change of employment status' or something to that effect, so it's a mad guy with a grudge against his employers.

    P.S. I see they're already backtracking on the 'two gunmen' hypothesis () seriously I'm losing all trust in what is deemed to be professional reporting when news breaks quickly.

    The code and standards on 24-hour TV news now seems to be - put on air immediately ALL rumours and speculation and gossip and repeat enough times until treated as fact - then a few hours later make a dignified climbdown in the face of your 'reports' being rubbished as spurious nonsense.

    It's all about the manic rush to break a new development and trying to make it as dramatic as possible. Maybe there's a case for more level-headedness and accuracy, even if such methods are deemed as 'boring'.

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    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Well, 12 people now confirmed dead.

    I'm surprised this isn't getting more coverage in the news.

    I guess a mass shooting with only 12 dead isn't really "news" these days.


    The dead gunman has been identified as 34-year-old Aaron Alexis from Fort Worth, Texas
    Last edited by T-Rexx; September 16th, 2013 at 12:13 PM.

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    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    The deceased has a prior arrest record for "MA DISCHARGE FIREARM CE" in Texas.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails AaronAlexisMugshot.jpg  

  12. #12
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    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    I guess a mass shooting with only 12 dead isn't really "news" these days.
    My thoughts entirely. This sort of thing has become routine in the US, largely thanks to the Second Amendment in my view.

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    JUB Addict chrisrobin's Avatar
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    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by unloadonme View Post
    My thoughts entirely. This sort of thing has become routine in the US, largely thanks to the Second Amendment in my view.
    Agreed.

    There was a time when America decided to sell its soul to the gun lobby. The NRA pays politicians and they in turn, vote down any attempt at gun regulations.* It didn't happen overnight - sort of like cancer. Personally, I don't see why shootings should even be reported. They are so much a part of the landscape that they are hardly newsworthy. We make choices and are obligated to accept the consequences. In fact, gunshot victims only should be regarded as "collateral damage."

    *Before the election of 2000, Wayne LaPierre proclaimed that the headquarters for the NRA would be the Oval Office.


    And by the way, the Second Amendment is fine... if it were the late 1700s. Certain members of our society seem to believe that a single-shot musket is equivalent to a 100 round clip. My advice? Keep voting Republicon. All our problems will be solved.

    In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

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    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChickenGuy View Post
    I don't think it's 'terrorism' as such.

    It's been quoted here on the news that the gunman had a 'recent change of employment status' or something to that effect, so it's a mad guy with a grudge against his employers.

    P.S. I see they're already backtracking on the 'two gunmen' hypothesis () seriously I'm losing all trust in what is deemed to be professional reporting when news breaks quickly.

    The code and standards on 24-hour TV news now seems to be - put on air immediately ALL rumours and speculation and gossip and repeat enough times until treated as fact - then a few hours later make a dignified climbdown in the face of your 'reports' being rubbished as spurious nonsense.

    It's all about the manic rush to break a new development and trying to make it as dramatic as possible. Maybe there's a case for more level-headedness and accuracy, even if such methods are deemed as 'boring'.
    If you want to know what is going on in the world you need to go to BBC.
    BEWARE! Harassing the Indian may result in sudden and severe hair loss.

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    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Here's a couple of links for you Chris. Alex Jones has come up with the answer to what happened there at the Navy Yard. Of course you know Alex. Honesty is the answer.

    http://www.alternet.org/alex-jones-i...ter897196&t=17

    http://mediamatters.org/research/201...x-jones/171722
    BEWARE! Harassing the Indian may result in sudden and severe hair loss.

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    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Mass shootings are just a way of life these days.
    Latest reports now have this guy involved in a shooting back in 2004,how the heck did this guy stay in the Navy?

  17. #17
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Because 'Murica!
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  18. #18
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    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Maybe every time there is a mass shooting or any shooting,
    blame the NRA and milk them for every dollar ...


    NEVER LISTEN TO A ONE SIDED STORY AND JUDGE.

  19. #19

    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Americans enjoy shooting each other with guns.

    When will those cowardly elected officials enact some tough gun laws so this stops?

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    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    As Rachel Maddow pointed out,there have been six shootings in the past six years that have killed 12 or more people. That isn't counting the shooting sprees where only 3-11 people are killed.
    We value guns more then people in this country,simply as that.
    Never mind the fact Conservatives have no qualms about ignoring or destroying the other amendments we have.

  21. #21

    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Wayne LaPierre said the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. There were good guys with guns at the shipyard but the bad one shot them and took their weapons. I want to hear the NRA's talk their way out of this one.

    We need to go the way of Australia with these gun laws.

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    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by Telstra View Post
    Maybe every time there is a mass shooting or any shooting,
    blame the NRA and milk them for every dollar ...
    Yeah, play the blame game instead of try to fix things.

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyBob View Post
    Americans enjoy shooting each other with guns.

    When will those cowardly elected officials enact some tough gun laws so this stops?
    The Constitution, if you take its language seriously, forbids any laws restricting guns.

    But it authorizes Congress to provide for the training and discipline of the militia. Where has Congress been?

    We don't outlaw cars that go fast, or cars that can crush people -- we require drivers to be properly trained, and to have insurance. The parallel to that is training and disciplining the militia. With that in mind, here's a bit of a blog a friend forwarded me:

    the assailant:

    1. He was arrested in Seattle in 2004, for "shooting out the tires of another man’s vehicle in an SELF DESCRIBED anger-fueled 'blackout.' 2. He was then arrested in Fort Worth in 2010, he "fired his gun accidentally", and then 3. he receives a general discharge from the Navy in 2011 "after a series of misconduct issues." misconduct . . . oh my. And know we had to kill him, how sad.

    We the people, WE FAILED HIM.

    Did he even have healthcare ? ummm Let me guess . . . another f-in border line street person, etc. and with a f'in gun. Hey hows that "obamacare going", is it here yet . . . oh wait the repubs want to make this great attempt to stop the healthcare. Yeah - more wack-o's on the street !! Yahoo !! what f'fun and just great yahoo ! news too !!

    yo Obama - "But today they faced the "unimaginable" (what country do you think this is ?): violence that they wouldn’t have expected here at home." ?? Huh ? unless you are living total denial - google it (maybe u try, Wiki "gun deaths per year USA" - goes over a lot of years - for ya) . . . so this is just another day in america. And you know that . . . so what is up ?

    "We will do everything in our power to make sure that whoever (they know who they shot !!??) carried out this cowardly act (this is a wack-o we are talking about - shame on you) is held responsible," the president added. The guy is dead. Is that the all american justice "we need" ? Is everybody really felling good about this ? Everybody knows this is going to happen again - duh !

    We the people of the USA, had many opportunities to prevent this from happening. Lets us all reevaluate who are we, what we stand for, and start acting accordingly. we all know the right thing to do. lets get this health care going - and let the system work.
    My first gut response was, "The GOP, bringing you gun violence since Ronald Reagan." Why Reagan? Because he's the one who started the fad of dumping the mentally ill out on the streets and slashing any resources for them to fall back on. So thanks to the GOP we have a worse system for troubled people than at any time since (look it up; it's true!) the Civil War!

    Provisions for a robust mental health care system for the entire populace should be part of a much-needed new Militia Act... unless of course we enjoy headlines like these. This has been a no-brainer ever since a known public danger shot and killed a federal judge in Arizona as part of his attack on a Congressperson.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyBob View Post
    Wayne LaPierre said the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. There were good guys with guns at the shipyard but the bad one shot them and took their weapons. I want to hear the NRA's talk their way out of this one.

    We need to go the way of Australia with these gun laws.
    Wayne La Pierre will say whatever he thinks will get more cash flowing through his PR firm that he has running the NRA for the sole purpose of generating cash flow, so he can keep his $1mn/yr compensation package (plus perks).

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    The Constitution, if you take its language seriously, forbids any laws restricting guns.
    Thank god!

    The city has been complaining about the howitzer in my front yard.

  25. #25
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Yeah, play the blame game instead of try to fix things.



    The Constitution, if you take its language seriously, forbids any laws restricting guns.

    But it authorizes Congress to provide for the training and discipline of the militia. Where has Congress been?

    We don't outlaw cars that go fast, or cars that can crush people -- we require drivers to be properly trained, and to have insurance. The parallel to that is training and disciplining the militia. With that in mind, here's a bit of a blog a friend forwarded me:



    My first gut response was, "The GOP, bringing you gun violence since Ronald Reagan." Why Reagan? Because he's the one who started the fad of dumping the mentally ill out on the streets and slashing any resources for them to fall back on. So thanks to the GOP we have a worse system for troubled people than at any time since (look it up; it's true!) the Civil War!

    Provisions for a robust mental health care system for the entire populace should be part of a much-needed new Militia Act... unless of course we enjoy headlines like these. This has been a no-brainer ever since a known public danger shot and killed a federal judge in Arizona as part of his attack on a Congressperson.
    Most gun killings in this country are not done by severely far-gone schizophrenics. Not by a long shot. Even if that were the case, I find it questionable when the same camp who opposes tougher gun restrictions on the basis of its invasion of privacy and everything else turns around and, when the opportunity comes up to shift the topic to mental illness, doesn't seem to mind the sort of invasive or coercive methods that would be necessary to somehow forcibly require people in need of any mental healthcare to get it, and to stay on their medications, to somehow magically ensure that guns being everywhere is no longer a problem because now there's no crazy people running around to shoot people with them.

    But that point aside, someone could be as mentally ill as you like and if they couldn't get keep or have SWAT team esque firepower with laughably minimal checks, they couldn't very well commit these rampages, mentally ill or not. I brought it up in earlier gun control discussions-- shifting this topic onto mental health solves nothing, and Virginia Tech is a case in point. The guy WAS severely mentally disturbed, was formally diagnosed, was proscribed medications, wasn't taking them, and simply walked into a gun store and picked up his weapons. All the focus on mental healthcare isn't going to fix the fact that in every state in this country that has confused guns with penises insists on laws as lenient as possible, and that there is zero system in place to conduct any sort of check on anyone's mental health history before they acquire a firearm, unless that mental health history has led to jailtime. Even then I'm sure many red states refuse to bar ex-cons or felons from purchasing.

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    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post

    The guy WAS severely mentally disturbed, was formally diagnosed, was proscribed medications, wasn't taking them, and simply walked into a gun store and picked up his weapons. All the focus on mental healthcare isn't going to fix the fact that in every state in this country that has confused guns with penises insists on laws as lenient as possible, and that there is zero system in place to conduct any sort of check on anyone's mental health history before they acquire a firearm, unless that mental health history has led to jailtime. Even then I'm sure many red states refuse to bar ex-cons or felons from purchasing.
    Worth repeating.

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    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    So i was right again, no blame game here.
    The NRA is at fault yet again.


    NEVER LISTEN TO A ONE SIDED STORY AND JUDGE.

  28. #28

    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Some people argue that the Second Amendment guarantees the right to gun ownership as a check against government control.
    This is pure fantasy. What it amounts to is an arms race between the institutions of law enforcement and an armed citizenry.
    The result is the erosion of collective security and the militarisation of civil society.

    http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com...is-not-enough/

  29. #29

    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    The Constitution, if you take its language seriously, forbids any laws restricting guns.

    But it authorizes Congress to provide for the training and discipline of the militia. Where has Congress been?

    We don't outlaw cars that go fast, or cars that can crush people -- we require drivers to be properly trained, and to have insurance. The parallel to that is training and disciplining the militia. With that in mind, here's a bit of a blog a friend forwarded me:
    Fine. Let the gun nuts have all the 18th century muskets they want.

    Since when is limiting magazine size "restricting guns"? A 10 bullet size magazine will shoot out your bullets just as well as a 30. Forbidding guns doesn't mean that anyone can have a bazooka or AK-47. Let them have a BB gun. Besides, you're playing with the constitution here. Why does everyone forget about the "well regulated" part in the 2nd?

    And the automobile / gun comparison doesn't make sense and is really tiring. How can you compare a transportation device with a device made especially for killing? Might as well ban throw rugs because people can slip on them and fall down the stairs even tho that's not what they were designed for.

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    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    But that point aside, someone could be as mentally ill as you like and if they couldn't get keep or have SWAT team esque firepower with laughably minimal checks, they couldn't very well commit these rampages, mentally ill or not. I brought it up in earlier gun control discussions-- shifting this topic onto mental health solves nothing, and Virginia Tech is a case in point. The guy WAS severely mentally disturbed, was formally diagnosed, was proscribed medications, wasn't taking them, and simply walked into a gun store and picked up his weapons. All the focus on mental healthcare isn't going to fix the fact that in every state in this country that has confused guns with penises insists on laws as lenient as possible, and that there is zero system in place to conduct any sort of check on anyone's mental health history before they acquire a firearm, unless that mental health history has led to jailtime. Even then I'm sure many red states refuse to bar ex-cons or felons from purchasing.
    I know I'm dealing with someone childish every time the "guns and penises" line comes up. But I'll comment here anyway: what you basically did above is agree with my point, that Congress has sadly neglected its duty to provide for the training and discipline of the militia.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by Telstra View Post
    So i was right again, no blame game here.
    The NRA is at fault yet again.
    The NRA didn't do a thing here, so they're hardly at fault. Congress is at fault for not providing for the discipline of the militia.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by EastMed View Post
    Some people argue that the Second Amendment guarantees the right to gun ownership as a check against government control.
    Yes -- the people who wrote it and fought to get it ratified, and all the states which ratified it.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyBob View Post
    Fine. Let the gun nuts have all the 18th century muskets they want.
    No, those would be for the 'liberals' who can't read with comprehension.

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyBob View Post
    Since when is limiting magazine size "restricting guns"? A 10 bullet size magazine will shoot out your bullets just as well as a 30. Forbidding guns doesn't mean that anyone can have a bazooka or AK-47. Let them have a BB gun. Besides, you're playing with the constitution here. Why does everyone forget about the "well regulated" part in the 2nd?
    I've explained what the Founding Fathers and the Framers meant by "well-regulated". It doesn't allow for "gun control".

    As for magazine size, look at this:



    See the little dangly things on the sleeves and elsewhere? Those are the fringe. They have absolutely nothing to do with the functioning of the jacket -- they're pure decoration.

    What the phrase "shall not be infringed" means, with reference to this picture, is that not only can't you mess with the coat itself, you can't mess with the things about it that don't even matter to its function -- the apparently trivial or inconsequential things around the edges. So in the Amendment, the phrase means not just that Congress can't have any laws or regulations that affect the arms themselves, but they can't have any that even deal with fringe matters -- such as caliber, or how many a person can have, or magazine size, or anything else even cosmetically related to arms.

    That's what it means. It was the strongest language in the Bill of Rights, forbidding government to tamper with even apparently unimportant things about arms. That it was such forceful language was one of the points proponents of the Bill of Rights made when arguing for ratification.

    So, technically, not a single law on the books concerning arms is constitutional -- not a one.

    What are constitutional are laws concerning such things as who may not have arms. The FFs and Framers understood that concept very well, and included it in the Constitution when they handed Congress the duty of providing for the discipline of the militia. Some people just weren't competent to be responsible for having firearms, and they recognized that -- in fact, that's where we get the two basic categories of people barred from keeping and bearing arms, namely those who have shown themselves a threat to the security of the Republic by using violence against citizens, and those not mentally competent to adhere to their responsible use.

    And those can be covered by Congress' authority to provide for training and discipline for the militia. I conceive a new Militia Act which could do that, though it would make many scream, including libertarians, because it would require extending not just registering for some hypothetical future draft, but being trained and evaluated as well. I don't even want to guess what it might cost, but a workable approach would be to require every graduating high school student to undergo a complete psychological evaluation, as one step in establishing competency to be a member of the militia -- as a beginning.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  33. #33
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    I know I'm dealing with someone childish every time the "guns and penises" line comes up. But I'll comment here anyway: what you basically did above is agree with my point, that Congress has sadly neglected its duty to provide for the training and discipline of the militia.
    We know we're dealing with someone childish when we know for absolute certain you are someone who is intellectually capable of determining between a gun being designed to kill and that being its express purpose with something that may occasionally be an indirect part of accidents or whatever else.

    Yet you keep making these stupid arguments like "well, the killer was wearing shoes, why don't you ban shoes."

    We know that you know these arguments are absolute bullcockey yet just on this one topic, you're willing to compromise your own intellectual integrity and be dishonest and illogical because you ARE one of those people who has fettishized the gun into freedom in a box.

    This is also the sole topic where I've ever seen or known you to resort to insults and belittling people personally when making your point, which also hints at the weakness of your position and your desperation to defend it.

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    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Oh, as an aside: today's liberals don't care about the "well-regulated" phrase in the Second Amendment, except to misuse it. To actually accomplish that, Congress would have to establish training centers open to all citizens -- not just training in proper use and handling of firearms, but in grasping the concept of chain of command, the qualifications of officers, basic unit organization, and more (for example, the authority of a sheriff to call on the militia to function as a posse, and the responsibility of the armed citizen to render support to sheriff or deputy when called on).
    Last edited by Kulindahr; September 17th, 2013 at 09:29 AM. Reason: stupid "update" function

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    Yet you keep making these stupid arguments like "well, the killer was wearing shoes, why don't you ban shoes."
    Try actually reading my posts.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    - - - Updated - - -



    Try actually reading my posts.
    The ones far, far below your actual intelligence in this thread where you have devolved to sounding like Benvolio or Chance, talking about stupid liberals and their inability to read?

    I'm too embarrassed for you when the gun topic comes up because I usually respect your thought process in most other topics.

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    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Have no fear as the USA rapidly declines into a Banana Republic the haves will not allow the have nots or serfs to have guns. While the tea baggin Republican living in trailer in KY or a 15 acre farm in Jackson MS may complain its the liberals or Democrats that want to take them dar guns, they are fools not to understand what will happen a bit later.
    Well this Gentlemen here who killed all these people was a pissed off contractor over his low pay, lack of raise and declining benefits. Just think the job creators will be shaking in their boots if the whole fucking gun toten' 48% goes postal on them.

  38. #38

    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    The killer evidently got his guns from inside the building. He did not have an illegal gun.

    Evidently, the government failed doing a thorough background check of the man.

    This man was mentally ill. It appears more and more the problem is mental illness. Are we ready to lock up all the mentally ill people?

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    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Of course, because that's so much easier than background checks.

    By the way, snapping from too much emotional pressure and a bad streak is NOT a mental illness. It could happen to anyone who is put in straining circumstances. I am not talking specifically about this guy, but in general. It's very convenient to label all of these people "mentally ill", but I bet half of them were ordinary folks up until the moment they snapped.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

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    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    The killer evidently got his guns from inside the building. He did not have an illegal gun.

    Evidently, the government failed doing a thorough background check of the man.

    This man was mentally ill. It appears more and more the problem is mental illness. Are we ready to lock up all the mentally ill people?
    Jack, do you know how much psychiatric care costs, especially for someone who needs medication and may need occasional commitment to in-care or psychiatric hospital wards? And do you know how restricted insurance coverage of this kind of care is?

    It's amazing that just on the gun issue, absolutely every care in the world about invasion of privacy and enormous government spending goes completely out the window for conservatives who would prefer absolutely anything to sensible changes in our gun policy.

    Also, shifting the entire discussion to "let's improve mental healthcare" would do nothing about people who had no previous record for anyone to worry about and suddenly snap, or go through a bad divorce or child custody battle, or get drunk at a bar and get into a fight that goes too far. Nor would it do anything about the people with access to guns and come from strata of America where there's a cocky self-reliant rejection of the need for mental healthcare, such as the military dad of the Columbine shooter who knew his son had issues and didn't need no stinkin shrinks for it.

    The people to most worry about as far as their mental state and their access to guns are the people who are not going to seek care, stay in care, or stay on medication anyway, no matter how much you improve the state of mental healthcare.
    Last edited by xbuzzerx; September 17th, 2013 at 04:11 PM.

  41. #41
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    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    This man was mentally ill. It appears more and more the problem is mental illness.
    Maybe the problem is that fewer and fewer people are getting treatment, due to lack of insurance.

  42. #42
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    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    I bring to this thread the concerns I have so aggressively addressed in the NSA/FBI/DEA/DOJ/surveillance thread(s).

    This incident makes me wonder if I need worry at all. There are enough markers (I think they call them) here to make a security officer's skin crawl. Instead, our security elements at the facility are dead or wounded.

    Is the government so unwieldy that markers - from its own data, if accessed - cannot be identified?

    The government can collect all of the communication data on a miscreant it wants, but if the government doesn't realize he's a miscreant in the first place, what purpose is served by collecting the data?

    Stupid, stupid, stupid.

    [/RANT]

  43. #43
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    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by Telstra View Post
    Here we go again.
    Shooting death ... it doesn't raise my eyebrows.
    There is no shock reactions anymore for gun mass murders.
    My reaction is, oh well, next story please ...


    NEVER LISTEN TO A ONE SIDED STORY AND JUDGE.

  44. #44

    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    Maybe the problem is that fewer and fewer people are getting treatment, due to lack of insurance.
    This latest asshole had all the insurance of the federal government and military. My guess is that the military and fed government wants to be PC and not address the issues he has. Very similar to the asshole that killed at the people at Ft. Hood -- the US Army looked the other way after all the clues.

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    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    Jack, do you know how much psychiatric care costs, especially for someone who needs medication and may need occasional commitment to in-care or psychiatric hospital wards? And do you know how restricted insurance coverage of this kind of care is?

    It's amazing that just on the gun issue, absolutely every care in the world about invasion of privacy and enormous government spending goes completely out the window for conservatives who would prefer absolutely anything to sensible changes in our gun policy.

    Also, shifting the entire discussion to "let's improve mental healthcare" would do nothing about people who had no previous record for anyone to worry about and suddenly snap, or go through a bad divorce or child custody battle, or get drunk at a bar and get into a fight that goes too far. Nor would it do anything about the people with access to guns and come from strata of America where there's a cocky self-reliant rejection of the need for mental healthcare, such as the military dad of the Columbine shooter who knew his son had issues and didn't need no stinkin shrinks for it.

    The people to most worry about as far as their mental state and their access to guns are the people who are not going to seek care, stay in care, or stay on medication anyway, no matter how much you improve the state of mental healthcare.
    Let me explain it to you. Every care in the world about invasion of privacy and enormous government spending goes completely out the window for conservatives, because to them mental health care is NOT a real thing. It's like "video-games create violence" - a scapegoat, a DEFLECTION. It's not meant to be a real thing, a real effort to address a real problem. To them these horrifying events "just happen" and since it's obvious it could not possibly be gun laws at fault because 'Murica, there is no rhyme or reason to them. They just are, like acts of God (which also just are, since global warming is a sham). So there is no cognitive dissonance to them. When they say "mental health is the issue", what they mean is "don't touch our guns!". Of course nothing else could be done anyway, so they don't worry about consequences from doing it.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  46. #46

    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by palbert View Post
    I bring to this thread the concerns I have so aggressively addressed in the NSA/FBI/DEA/DOJ/surveillance thread(s).

    This incident makes me wonder if I need worry at all. There are enough markers (I think they call them) here to make a security officer's skin crawl. Instead, our security elements at the facility are dead or wounded.

    Is the government so unwieldy that markers - from its own data, if accessed - cannot be identified?

    The government can collect all of the communication data on a miscreant it wants, but if the government doesn't realize he's a miscreant in the first place, what purpose is served by collecting the data?

    Stupid, stupid, stupid.

    [/RANT]
    Thanks ... a good rant. The US Government now collects so much information they don't have the ability or skill to know what to do with it after they have it. ... and they want more.

  47. #47

    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Let me explain it to you. Every care in the world about invasion of privacy and enormous government spending goes completely out the window for conservatives, because to them mental health care is NOT a real thing. It's like "video-games create violence" - a scapegoat, a DEFLECTION. It's not meant to be a real thing, a real effort to address a real problem. To them these horrifying events "just happen" and since it's obvious it could not possibly be gun laws at fault because 'Murica, there is no rhyme or reason to them. They just are, like acts of God (which also just are, since global warming is a sham). So there is no cognitive dissonance to them. When they say "mental health is the issue", what they mean is "don't touch our guns!". Of course nothing else could be done anyway, so they don't worry about consequences from doing it.
    Again, the man worked for the federal government. He had access to mental health professionals.

  48. #48
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    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Again, the man worked for the federal government. He had access to mental health professionals.
    And he spurned it.

    Thanks for proving my point that improving mental healthcare is a non-solution to someone going on a gun rampage.

    Look what the kid did in Connecticut when his mom told him she wanted to put him into mental healthcare.

  49. #49
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    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    And he spurned it.

    Thanks for proving my point that improving mental healthcare is a non-solution to someone going on a gun rampage.

    Look what the kid did in Connecticut when his mom told him she wanted to put him into mental healthcare.
    It takes someone stronger than these people are to meaningfully seek and accept therapy.

    They have demonstrated the horrific easy way out.

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    Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Of course, because that's so much easier than background checks.

    By the way, snapping from too much emotional pressure and a bad streak is NOT a mental illness. It could happen to anyone who is put in straining circumstances. I am not talking specifically about this guy, but in general. It's very convenient to label all of these people "mentally ill", but I bet half of them were ordinary folks up until the moment they snapped.
    Which is why a new Militia Act should provide for mental health resources for everyone, any time.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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