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  1. #1
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    OverPopulation: No Problem: Malthus Debunked

    This is from today's New York Times:
    Overpopulation Is Not the Problem

    BALTIMORE — MANY scientists believe that by transforming the earth’s natural landscapes, we are undermining the very life support systems that sustain us. Like bacteria in a petri dish, our exploding numbers are reaching the limits of a finite planet, with dire consequences. Disaster looms as humans exceed the earth’s natural carrying capacity. Clearly, this could not be sustainable.

    This is nonsense. ...

    The world population is now estimated at 7.2 billion. But with current industrial technologies, the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations has estimated that the more than nine billion people expected by 2050 as the population nears its peak could be supported as long as necessary investments in infrastructure and conducive trade, anti-poverty and food security policies are in place. Who knows what will be possible with the technologies of the future? The important message from these rough numbers should be clear. There really is no such thing as a human carrying capacity. We are nothing at all like bacteria in a petri dish.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/14/op...m.html?hp&_r=0

    Do you buy it?

    I tend to favor a Malthusian view, skeptical of the Cornucopians. He refers to Ester Boserup's work, with which I can claim no earlier familiarity.

    The author makes a case for existence or sustainability but neglects what we, in this country at least, call "quality of life." I find his reliance on China as an exemplar of infinite sustainability unsatisfying. In short, I conjure up Soylent Green.

    I would rather a Ciobani Green. Or a steak.

    Your thoughts?

  2. #2
    FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE! TX-Beau's Avatar
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    Re: OverPopulation: No Problem: Malthus Debunked

    It's pretty much common fucking sense that more people mean more stress on the system. I find it amusing that he's apparently relying on Star Trek to feed his easily feedable billions of people that are nothing like bacteria.
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

  3. #3
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    Re: OverPopulation: No Problem: Malthus Debunked

    I disagreed with the 2nd quote.
    There is such a thing as "human carrying capacity"

    Who ever wrote this,
    i would like him to try and live in Indian slums and survive there and see what he thinks.
    Last edited by Telstra; September 14th, 2013 at 01:17 PM.


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  4. #4
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    Re: OverPopulation: No Problem: Malthus Debunked

    could be supported as long as necessary investments in infrastructure and conducive trade, anti-poverty and food security policies are in place. Who knows what will be possible with the technologies of the future? The important message from these rough numbers should be clear. There really is no such thing as a human carrying capacity. We are nothing at all like bacteria in a petri dish.
    Won't happen. That would be socialism you know. The 1% might have to share something.


  5. #5
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    Re: OverPopulation: No Problem: Malthus Debunked

    The 99% could live much more like the 1% if there were only 75% of them. Of course overpopulation is a problem. Canada already has 4 people per square kilometre, and that is plenty crowded. Malthus was essentially correct.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  6. #6
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    Re: OverPopulation: No Problem: Malthus Debunked

    This Planet is not capable of sustaining such growth . Resources will all be consumed . Then ? Good old do or die .
    Survival of the fittest .
    A very apt phrase .

  7. #7
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    Re: OverPopulation: No Problem: Malthus Debunked

    He neglects one very important item, and that's the impossibility of infinity. The productivity of any piece of land is limited -- and for a biologist to miss this is astounding -- by the speed at which organisms can turn nutrients into protoplasm. All that humans have been doing is playing with the natural limits, pushing toward the maximum -- but he would have us believe that there is no maximum. One may as well believe that there is no limit to physical velocity.

    He also ignores the fact that our very success at feeding more of us is driving other species to extinction. Again, this is astounding for a biologist to miss: the planet is a system, and as with any complex system, there is no way to predict which component will prove critical to the functioning of the whole. Just as a jumbo jet once went down in the everglades due to the failure of a light with a cost under five bucks, an ecosystem can crash due to the failure of some equally "inconsequential" element. By eliminating entire species from the planet, we endanger the whole system -- not that we would end life on this world, but we could effectively hit the reset button in a way that kills off a third or more of the species, resulting in some new equilibrium quite unfriendly to humans.

    And there is his biggest error: he fails to recognize that we homo sapiens are part of the system. We aren't above it, and though we may one day rise so far, the resultant world, filled with nothing but artificial objects of our own creation and a few species we bothered to save, would be so sterile as to render us little more than machines trapped within our own mechanism.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  8. #8
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    Re: OverPopulation: No Problem: Malthus Debunked

    The world would be a happier place with more babies in it.
    Everyone wants to be heard. No one wants to listen.

  9. #9
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    Re: OverPopulation: No Problem: Malthus Debunked

    Quote Originally Posted by sixthson View Post
    The world would be a happier place with more babies in it.
    Yes -- that would mean more laborers, so the "job creators" could pay as little as possible.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  10. #10
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    Re: OverPopulation: No Problem: Malthus Debunked

    The world would be a happier place with fewer starving babies in it. Fewer babies, more of whom could then grow up to see a live panda, or eat a cod fish, or walk through an old-growth forest, or buy their own home instead of sleeping in a cinderblock hut with four generations of their malnourished relatives.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  11. #11
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    Re: OverPopulation: No Problem: Malthus Debunked

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    He neglects one very important item, and that's the impossibility of infinity. The productivity of any piece of land is limited -- and for a biologist to miss this is astounding -- by the speed at which organisms can turn nutrients into protoplasm. All that humans have been doing is playing with the natural limits, pushing toward the maximum -- but he would have us believe that there is no maximum. One may as well believe that there is no limit to physical velocity.

    He also ignores the fact that our very success at feeding more of us is driving other species to extinction. Again, this is astounding for a biologist to miss: the planet is a system, and as with any complex system, there is no way to predict which component will prove critical to the functioning of the whole. Just as a jumbo jet once went down in the everglades due to the failure of a light with a cost under five bucks, an ecosystem can crash due to the failure of some equally "inconsequential" element. By eliminating entire species from the planet, we endanger the whole system -- not that we would end life on this world, but we could effectively hit the reset button in a way that kills off a third or more of the species, resulting in some new equilibrium quite unfriendly to humans.

    And there is his biggest error: he fails to recognize that we homo sapiens are part of the system. We aren't above it, and though we may one day rise so far, the resultant world, filled with nothing but artificial objects of our own creation and a few species we bothered to save, would be so sterile as to render us little more than machines trapped within our own mechanism.
    I guess he is a stupid biologist.
    I'm surprised this newspaper allowed him to publish a junk work.


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  12. #12
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    Re: OverPopulation: No Problem: Malthus Debunked

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    The world would be a happier place with fewer starving babies in it. Fewer babies, more of whom could then grow up to see a live panda, or eat a cod fish, or walk through an old-growth forest, or buy their own home instead of sleeping in a cinderblock hut with four generations of their malnourished relatives.
    With a diabetes epidemic sweeping the Western world, and the results of morbid obesity killing tens of millions every year it could also be argued that were food resources re-distributed justly the human race would not be suffering from malnutrition in the developing world, and gross obesity in the developed world....re-distribution of resources....now there's a thought, worth thinking.

  13. #13
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    Re: OverPopulation: No Problem: Malthus Debunked

    Quote Originally Posted by Telstra View Post
    I guess he is a stupid biologist.
    I'm surprised this newspaper allowed him to publish a junk work.
    I trust that you are not recommending censorship of research because the results do not meet with your well informed approval....?

  14. #14
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    Re: OverPopulation: No Problem: Malthus Debunked

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    I trust that you are not recommending censorship of research because the results do not meet with your well informed approval....?
    Are you saying all biologists agrees with him?
    He can say what ever he wants but his opinion about "over population = no problem" is stupid.

    Yes re-distribution of wealth is fine but that is about politics, not about biology.
    Why don't you debunk Kulindahr ?
    Last edited by Telstra; September 15th, 2013 at 12:12 AM.


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    Re: OverPopulation: No Problem: Malthus Debunked

    Quote Originally Posted by Telstra View Post
    Are you saying all biologists agrees with him?
    He can say what ever he wants but his opinion about "over population = no problem" is stupid.

    Yes re-distribution of wealth is fine but that is about politics, not about biology.
    Why don't you debunk Kulindahr ?
    What are your qualifications in biology...to enable you to pass judgement....are you better qualified...?

  16. #16
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    Re: OverPopulation: No Problem: Malthus Debunked

    Well then there will be a point when we're standing shoulder to shoulder over ever square foot of land on Earth and still people will deny basic ecology.

    That day is probably far off. Technology will likely manage to stave it off for a few centuries. The Green Revolution of the 1950s is a good example.

    Then there will be a Terry Jones film about how Hy Brasil really didn't sink.

  17. #17
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    Re: OverPopulation: No Problem: Malthus Debunked

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    What are your qualifications in biology...to enable you to pass judgement....are you better qualified...?
    Nope, i'm NOT qualified.
    But you didn't answer my question about all or most biologists agrees with him?


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  18. #18
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    Re: OverPopulation: No Problem: Malthus Debunked

    Quote Originally Posted by Telstra View Post
    Nope, i'm NOT qualified.
    But you didn't answer my question about all or most biologists agrees with him?
    Biology has nothing to do with it.

    This debate is about the exchange between life and its environment, otherwise known as ecology. Biology itself is therefore not a sufficient background to study this problem.

  19. #19
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    Re: OverPopulation: No Problem: Malthus Debunked

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    I trust that you are not recommending censorship of research because the results do not meet with your well informed approval....?
    I don't see any research under discussion.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  20. #20
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    Re: OverPopulation: No Problem: Malthus Debunked

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    Well then there will be a point when we're standing shoulder to shoulder over ever square foot of land on Earth and still people will deny basic ecology.

    That day is probably far off. Technology will likely manage to stave it off for a few centuries. The Green Revolution of the 1950s is a good example.

    Then there will be a Terry Jones film about how Hy Brasil really didn't sink.
    You're making the same error he did. Here's another way of looking at it: he assumed that things such as the introduction of the John Deere plow and the so-called Green Revolution are data points to be put on a graph and extrapolated. But they aren't; they're phase changes in the operation of a limited system. There's no way at all to make projections from phase changes, because by their very nature they can't be predicted.

    The flip side of that is neglecting the likelihood of phase changes in the planetary ecosystem -- our life-support system. The more pressure we put on it, the more likely it will undergo some major shift into a new equilibrium, and the odds of such a new equilibrium being favorable to us are slim to none; chances are it will be catastrophically bad.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  21. #21
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    Re: OverPopulation: No Problem: Malthus Debunked

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    Biology has nothing to do with it.

    This debate is about the exchange between life and its environment, otherwise known as ecology. Biology itself is therefore not a sufficient background to study this problem.
    That's an interesting observation. OTOH, any decent biologist should understand some basic principles of ecology; it would be almost impossible to get an education in biology without learning them.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  22. #22
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    Re: OverPopulation: No Problem: Malthus Debunked

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    With a diabetes epidemic sweeping the Western world, and the results of morbid obesity killing tens of millions every year it could also be argued that were food resources re-distributed justly the human race would not be suffering from malnutrition in the developing world, and gross obesity in the developed world....re-distribution of resources....now there's a thought, worth thinking.
    Or, parents could limit their family size to a number which could be kept in relative plenty, and then teach them self-discipline.

    Many have observed that people with wealth and leisure eat healthier foods and engage in more activity. Redistribution is not the answer. New distribution is.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  23. #23
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    Re: OverPopulation: No Problem: Malthus Debunked

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    You're making the same error he did. Here's another way of looking at it: he assumed that things such as the introduction of the John Deere plow and the so-called Green Revolution are data points to be put on a graph and extrapolated. But they aren't; they're phase changes in the operation of a limited system. There's no way at all to make projections from phase changes, because by their very nature they can't be predicted.

    The flip side of that is neglecting the likelihood of phase changes in the planetary ecosystem -- our life-support system. The more pressure we put on it, the more likely it will undergo some major shift into a new equilibrium, and the odds of such a new equilibrium being favorable to us are slim to none; chances are it will be catastrophically bad.
    I didn't say the Green Revolution spurred population growth, it merely alleviated the problems associated with population growth. Namely, food insecurity is at an all time low by rate.

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    Re: OverPopulation: No Problem: Malthus Debunked

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    Or, parents could limit their family size to a number which could be kept in relative plenty, and then teach them self-discipline.
    Most people who fail to limit their family size don't have self-discipline in the first place. How can they pass on what they lack?

    Of course, a lot of people should limit their family size to one....

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: OverPopulation: No Problem: Malthus Debunked

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    I didn't say the Green Revolution spurred population growth, it merely alleviated the problems associated with population growth. Namely, food insecurity is at an all time low by rate.
    And in terms of planning for the future, that is meaningless.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: OverPopulation: No Problem: Malthus Debunked

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    And in terms of planning for the future, that is meaningless.
    That was actually the argument I made. LOL

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    Re: OverPopulation: No Problem: Malthus Debunked

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    I don't see any research under discussion.
    Your earlier appreciation of the captioned article has already exposed your choice.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    Or, parents could limit their family size to a number which could be kept in relative plenty, and then teach them self-discipline.

    Many have observed that people with wealth and leisure eat healthier foods and engage in more activity. Redistribution is not the answer. New distribution is.
    Ideals are fine.....then there is reality.....very fat people, everywhere.

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    Re: OverPopulation: No Problem: Malthus Debunked

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    Biology has nothing to do with it.

    This debate is about the exchange between life and its environment, otherwise known as ecology. Biology itself is therefore not a sufficient background to study this problem.
    The biology of the human being has absolutely nothing to do with over eating???......

    ......The science of life and of living organisms, including their structure, function, growth, origin, evolution, and distribution?


  29. #29
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    Re: OverPopulation: No Problem: Malthus Debunked

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Most people who fail to limit their family size don't have self-discipline in the first place. How can they pass on what they lack?

    Of course, a lot of people should limit their family size to one....
    Official Chinese Government policy limits the size of families to one child.....it's not working.....just imagine trying to cater for an ageing population with such severe restrictions placed on family size....even, well organised Germany is encouraging immigration of young people to compensate for low (German) population growth.....

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    Re: OverPopulation: No Problem: Malthus Debunked

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    Official Chinese Government policy limits the size of families to one child.....it's not working.....just imagine trying to cater for an ageing population with such severe restrictions placed on family size....even, well organised Germany is encouraging immigration of young people to compensate for low (German) population growth.....
    umm 1 child policy is not working?
    You are joking right. The standard of living is much much better than before.


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    Re: OverPopulation: No Problem: Malthus Debunked

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    The biology of the human being has absolutely nothing to do with over eating???......

    ......The science of life and of living organisms, including their structure, function, growth, origin, evolution, and distribution?

    The maximum population in an environment is an ecological question, not one of biology.

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    Re: OverPopulation: No Problem: Malthus Debunked

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    The maximum population in an environment is an ecological question, not one of biology.
    That's one element in a very big picture that is being discussed here....never neglect the human person....for we are the stewards of the environment, and it is our impact upon the environment that is creating the problems being discussed here....leading me to remind you that biology is the science of life, and of living organisms, including their structure, function, growth, origin, evolution, and distribution.

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    Re: OverPopulation: No Problem: Malthus Debunked

    Quote Originally Posted by Telstra View Post
    umm 1 child policy is not working?
    You are joking right. The standard of living is much much better than before.
    There is a time bomb ticking away very slowly, causing the Chinese Government much concern who is going to support China's ageing population when the one child policy is restricting population growth....likewise in a few European countries such as Germany, and even baby loving Italy there is a growing awareness that the population growth of indigenous populations is shrinking creating an need to "import" young people from other parts of the world.

    Furthermore, as Apple Inc. evidences economic growth in China comes with a price, sweat shops, slave conditions that hardly speak of an improvement in living conditions despite the appetite for more shiny goods to demonstrate economic growth.

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    Re: OverPopulation: No Problem: Malthus Debunked

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    That's one element in a very big picture that is being discussed here....never neglect the human person....for we are the stewards of the environment, and it is our impact upon the environment that is creating the problems being discussed here....leading me to remind you that biology is the science of life, and of living organisms, including their structure, function, growth, origin, evolution, and distribution.
    But not its relationship between organisms or geology.

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    Re: OverPopulation: No Problem: Malthus Debunked

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    There is a time bomb ticking away very slowly, causing the Chinese Government much concern who is going to support China's ageing population when the one child policy is restricting population growth....likewise in a few European countries such as Germany, and even baby loving Italy there is a growing awareness that the population growth of indigenous populations is shrinking creating an need to "import" young people from other parts of the world.

    Furthermore, as Apple Inc. evidences economic growth in China comes with a price, sweat shops, slave conditions that hardly speak of an improvement in living conditions despite the appetite for more shiny goods to demonstrate economic growth.
    No time bomb, the policy can be reversed easily.
    Do you want quality of life or quantity of life like in poor countries waiting for handouts all the time ?


    NEVER LISTEN TO A ONE SIDED STORY AND JUDGE.

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    Re: OverPopulation: No Problem: Malthus Debunked

    Quote Originally Posted by Telstra View Post
    No time bomb, the policy can be reversed easily.
    Do you want quality of life or quantity of life like in poor countries waiting for handouts all the time ?
    As long as the one child per couple policy continues the future prosperity of China will be compromised, and China's ageing population will have insufficient younger people to assist them....who will make the mobile telephones for Apple Inc. with insufficient children being born to guarantee China's future prosperity and well being?

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    Re: OverPopulation: No Problem: Malthus Debunked

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    But not its relationship between organisms or geology.
    All is related...one cannot separate the human person from its impact on the environment....and the consequences that arise...
    the very topic that we are currently discussing here.

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    Re: OverPopulation: No Problem: Malthus Debunked

    Imagine how much worse things would be if there were no gay people. Last thing we need is more rug rats in this world.

    Does anyone want to speculate what the population would be if we (gays) were all breeders?
    If you could just put a light bulb over every gay person’s head, people would see just how well-lit their streets and cities are.
    -Alexey Odintsov

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    Re: OverPopulation: No Problem: Malthus Debunked

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    As long as the one child per couple policy continues the future prosperity of China will be compromised, and China's ageing population will have insufficient younger people to assist them....who will make the mobile telephones for Apple Inc. with insufficient children being born to guarantee China's future prosperity and well being?
    There are alot of smart people there.
    I'm sure they know how to look after there wealth as long as there is no civil war.


    NEVER LISTEN TO A ONE SIDED STORY AND JUDGE.

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    Re: OverPopulation: No Problem: Malthus Debunked

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    All is related...one cannot separate the human person from its impact on the environment....and the consequences that arise...
    the very topic that we are currently discussing here.
    Biology does.

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    Re: OverPopulation: No Problem: Malthus Debunked

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    Biology does.
    Only when your political ideology presumes to make so.

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    Re: OverPopulation: No Problem: Malthus Debunked

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    Your earlier appreciation of the captioned article has already exposed your choice.
    There's no choice involved -- there's either research, or there isn't. No studies were cited, no peer-reviewed publications -- no research.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: OverPopulation: No Problem: Malthus Debunked

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    Official Chinese Government policy limits the size of families to one child.....it's not working.....just imagine trying to cater for an ageing population with such severe restrictions placed on family size....even, well organised Germany is encouraging immigration of young people to compensate for low (German) population growth.....
    The Chinese policy is a family of three.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: OverPopulation: No Problem: Malthus Debunked

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    Only when your political ideology presumes to make so.
    The definition of biology is independent of politics.

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    Re: OverPopulation: No Problem: Malthus Debunked

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    As long as the one child per couple policy continues the future prosperity of China will be compromised, and China's ageing population will have insufficient younger people to assist them....who will make the mobile telephones for Apple Inc. with insufficient children being born to guarantee China's future prosperity and well being?
    The one-child policy was instituted to save the future prosperity of China.

    As for who will make the telephones, that would be the same people who make Tesla's cars: robots.

    That works domestically, too. Half of the chores I do around the house could be done by robots. Two-thirds of the activities providing care for the people at the local retirement 'communities' could be done by robots. I'm not talking science fiction, either; I'm talking about robots already in existence that mow lawns, wash buildings, clean floors, and deliver meals.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: OverPopulation: No Problem: Malthus Debunked

    ^^^ I actually have a RF lawn mower. If I were clever, I'm sure a program could be written to govern it from my computer.
    Last edited by Alnitak; September 16th, 2013 at 10:17 AM.

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    Re: OverPopulation: No Problem: Malthus Debunked

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    Biology does.
    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    Only when your political ideology presumes to make so.
    Alnitak is right, and ideology has nothing to do with it. In every biology course I took, input/output was assumed, and all study was directed at the internal functioning of the organism. The only time input was mentioned was in the effects of reduced input on the individual organism itself. In botany, the effects of poor soil on a plant were examined, but never with reference to neighboring plants or any animals that might be impacted -- those issues belong to ecology.

    The flip is true as well: ecology never examined the internal workings of an organism, it merely took for granted that they worked. A lack of food wasn't a matter of what that did to the individual organism, but of what results the general lack of food in a population had on the population's behavior, and what that behavior did to the system.

    Consider organisms as boxes: biology is concerned with what happens inside the boxes, while ecology is concerned with how the boxes play together.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: OverPopulation: No Problem: Malthus Debunked

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    ^^^ I actually have a RF lawn mower. If I were clever, I'm sure a program could be written to govern it from my computer.
    They're getting smarter. I think it was Top Gear that talked about one that can tell the difference between grass and bark dust, gravel, and other surfaces, and respond accordingly, so you don't have to tell it where the flower bed starts and can put in a new gravel or stone path and not worry about it trying to mow them. The unit can just be put on your lawn and turned loose; the only thing it has to be taught is where your lawn ends and the neighbor's begins if there's no barrier. They even talked about one that can distinguish weeds from grass, and deliver a shot of weed killer!

    I want one that will also scoop up dog poop and take it along with grass clippings to the compost bin.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: OverPopulation: No Problem: Malthus Debunked

    If it's any consolation..most of those 7 billion people are probably going to die when we run out of the materials to make the chemical fertilizers that made 7 billion people possible in the first place..

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    Re: OverPopulation: No Problem: Malthus Debunked

    Oh. I'm not sure you should compost dog poop if it will wind up in either a vegetable garden, or a lawn where people frolic in bare feet for example. In fact I'm sure you should not, unless you are willing to invest in a compost thermometer and fuss around monitoring the temperature to ensure that it consistently reaches the appropriate temperature for killing pathogens. I can't be bothered to be quite that fussy.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

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