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  1. #1
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    BREAKING: Putin Posts Op-Ed in NY Times !

    Vladimir Putin has written an Op-Ed in the 11 September NY Times (late).

    A Plea for Caution From Russia
    What Putin Has to Say to Americans About Syria

    Syria is not witnessing a battle for democracy, but an armed conflict between government and opposition in a multireligious country. There are few champions of democracy in Syria. But there are more than enough Qaeda fighters and extremists of all stripes battling the government. The United States State Department has designated Al Nusra Front and the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, fighting with the opposition, as terrorist organizations. This internal conflict, fueled by foreign weapons supplied to the opposition, is one of the bloodiest in the world.
    ...
    From the outset, Russia has advocated peaceful dialogue enabling Syrians to develop a compromise plan for their own future. We are not protecting the Syrian government, but international law. We need to use the United Nations Security Council and believe that preserving law and order in today’s complex and turbulent world is one of the few ways to keep international relations from sliding into chaos. The law is still the law, and we must follow it whether we like it or not. Under current international law, force is permitted only in self-defense or by the decision of the Security Council. Anything else is unacceptable under the United Nations Charter and would constitute an act of aggression.
    ...
    My working and personal relationship with President Obama is marked by growing trust. I appreciate this. I carefully studied his address to the nation on Tuesday. And I would rather disagree with a case he made on American exceptionalism, stating that the United States’ policy is “what makes America different. It’s what makes us exceptional.” It is extremely dangerous to encourage people to see themselves as exceptional, whatever the motivation. There are big countries and small countries, rich and poor, those with long democratic traditions and those still finding their way to democracy. Their policies differ, too. We are all different, but when we ask for the Lord’s blessings, we must not forget that God created us equal.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/12/op...-on-syria.html

    My comments not necessary.

  2. #2

    Vladimir Putin Makes His Move To Become World Leader

    Op-ed piece by Putin in the NYT on 9.11.13 telling Americans they are not exceptional.

    A Plea for Caution From Russia
    What Putin Has to Say to Americans About Syria

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/12/op...yria.html?_r=0

    Last edited by Jack Springer; September 11th, 2013 at 06:50 PM.

  3. #3
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    Re: BREAKING: Putin Posts Op-Ed in NY Times !

    Putin is right in this case.


    NEVER LISTEN TO A ONE SIDED STORY AND JUDGE.

  4. #4
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    Re: Vladimir Putin Makes His Move To Become World Leader

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Op-ed piece by Putin in the NYT on 9.11.13 telling Americans they are not exceptional. ....
    I think part of our problem is that this cult of "exceptionalism" leads us astray into self-conferred omniscience or omnipotence or ruling out bad judgment.

    Perhaps in another time, such as "Manifest Destiny," when Mexico was our only impediment, exceptionalism had its place. We were exceptional because we were the only kid on the block, expanding west in isolation. Those days are gone. If we choose to lead the world we must sway the world, not walk all over it in white jackboots.

    It is easy to be exceptional if you are self-exceptional.

  5. #5
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    Re: BREAKING: Putin Posts Op-Ed in NY Times !

    This is our dichotomy. Do we want Russias last minion in the middle east to stay in power? NO Do we want a state supporter of Hezbollah to remain in power? NO

    However, we also do not want to help Al Qeaeda or any other religious extremist terror organization to gain significant control in the region. So we state we support the rebels and then withhold our support until they are made up of people we like.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  6. #6

    Re: BREAKING: Putin Posts Op-Ed in NY Times !

    Should Obama respond to Putin's piece? I hope so.

    Putin keeps giving the spankings, Obama needs to fight back and overpower him.

    The idea of America is at stake.

  7. #7
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    Re: BREAKING: Putin Posts Op-Ed in NY Times !

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Should Obama respond to Putin's piece? I hope so.

    Putin keeps giving the spankings, Obama needs to fight back and overpower him.

    The idea of America is at stake.
    That the Putin/Obama plan avoids the senseless loss of life of innocent people whilst guaranteeing Assad surrenders his chemical weapons is a win/win for both politicians and is by my reckoning a victory for peace orientated diplomacy....may such cooperation hail a future where diplomacy remains the first response in any, and all international crises.

  8. #8

    Re: BREAKING: Putin Posts Op-Ed in NY Times !

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    That the Putin/Obama plan avoids the senseless loss of life of innocent people whilst guaranteeing Assad surrenders his chemical weapons is a win/win for both politicians and is by my reckoning a victory for peace orientated diplomacy....may such cooperation hail a future where diplomacy remains the first response in any, and all international crises.
    There is very little chance Syria will give up its weapons. They will now begin an endless course of negotiations, while keeping them and, perhaps using the safe under the protection of Russia.

  9. #9
    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: BREAKING: Putin Posts Op-Ed in NY Times !

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    There is very little chance Syria will give up its weapons. They will now begin an endless course of negotiations, while keeping them and, perhaps using the safe under the protection of Russia.
    I do not have the advantage of sharing in your fly on the wall intelligence nevertheless, Russia, the UK, France, and the USA are committed to ensuring that Assad complies with this multi national arrangement, with Putin knowing very well that his own reputation rests on Assad delivering the chemical weapons for destruction...I'm optimistic..for Assad's future depends upon Russian military support.

  10. #10

    Re: BREAKING: Putin Posts Op-Ed in NY Times !

    ^^

    Russia is trying to extend and protect their influence in the middle east and downgrade the influence of the US. Which appears makes you very happy.

    Russia in charge could bring some stability to the region by trouble in other places around the world as extreme muslims exert their new power. Which, I assume, would make you very happy also.
    Last edited by Jack Springer; September 12th, 2013 at 08:13 AM.

  11. #11
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    Re: BREAKING: Putin Posts Op-Ed in NY Times !

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    There is very little chance Syria will give up its weapons. They will now begin an endless course of negotiations, while keeping them and, perhaps using the safe under the protection of Russia.
    Believe me...Russia doesn't want fundamentalist Islamists to have any access to CW either...they also have problems with these extremists.

    And news alert. Get used to the idea that Russia, China and the US still have to share the superpower status.

  12. #12
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    Re: BREAKING: Putin Posts Op-Ed in NY Times !

    Regarding kallipolis' earlier comment... while if this works out it will be a big positive in that it would theoretically take away the the chemical weapons program of the Assad regime, it won't stop the senseless killing as around 100,000 have already died in brutal conventional fashion. As well, what if radical Islamic elements among the rebels were really behind the recent chemical attacks as many people tend to believe over the Syrian government directing their use? Don't see them voluntarily giving up whatever they've acquired. This whole deal is by no means guaranteed... and Syria will be a mess for the foreseeable future no matter how this is resolved.
    unofficial official mini meet Friday- Saturday April 11-12, 2014

  13. #13

    Re: BREAKING: Putin Posts Op-Ed in NY Times !

    I hope Obama takes the opportunity to point out that America's claim to exceptionalism lies in large part in its support for democracy and human freedom, including economic freedom, during the last 238 hundred years. But Russia has been a bastion of antidemocratic repression and continues to be. When Hitler invaded Poland, Russia was his ally in carving up Poland. It provided materials to Hitler until Hitler attacked. After the war it imposed totalitarian regimes upon Easter Europe. Even today, it is the most dependable ally of the repressive regimes: Cuba, No Korea, Syria, Iran, and yes, China. Its invariable alliance with the bad regimes of the world had rendered the UN a worthless hulk. That is what O should say, but I think he basically agrees with Putin's anti-Americanism.

  14. #14
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    Re: BREAKING: Putin Posts Op-Ed in NY Times !

    For the story behind the publication of the Op-Ed, by the Public Editor:

    http://publiceditor.blogs.nytimes.co...-in-the-times/

  15. #15
    mitchymo
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    Re: BREAKING: Putin Posts Op-Ed in NY Times !

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    I hope Obama takes the opportunity to point out that America's claim to exceptionalism lies in large part in its support for democracy and human freedom, including economic freedom, during the last 238 hundred years. But Russia has been a bastion of antidemocratic repression and continues to be. When Hitler invaded Poland, Russia was his ally in carving up Poland. It provided materials to Hitler until Hitler attacked. After the war it imposed totalitarian regimes upon Easter Europe. Even today, it is the most dependable ally of the repressive regimes: Cuba, No Korea, Syria, Iran, and yes, China. Its invariable alliance with the bad regimes of the world had rendered the UN a worthless hulk. That is what O should say, but I think he basically agrees with Putin's anti-Americanism.
    Keep waving that US flag that you've got glued to your hand, won't you Benvolio. So long as you have your patriotism then nothing else matters right?
    That's certainly how it seems after reading your above post.
    Where to start?
    Let's start with America's claim to exceptionalism rooted in support for democracy and human freedom over the course of 238yrs. How long has the slave trade been abolished? How long ago did segregation end? How many of those years have gays been full equals?
    It's quite interesting, and Gary Kasparov mentioned this just last night on BBC Hardtalk, that Russia and the US are not so different in respect of inequality towards minorities. The only real difference is the extent of democracy, where Russia does have less. It doesn't stop poor/bad governments within strong democracies from impeding progress, walking over the rights of their peoples, and showing hypocrisy whenever they come up with some plan to 'make the nation greater', as such governments invariably do it at the expense of some of their peoples. This is not bettering society, it is divisive.
    If Obama was to respond with such rhetoric as you suggest, he'd be lambasted as a fool by many of his allies, let alone Russia and US enemies.
    The US is considered widely to be the greatest country on Earth. Not for me its not. Not for most people its not. The UK is the greatest country in the world, to me. France is to my equal there, Germany is, Turkey is, even North Korea is to someone. Patriotism is fantastic sometimes, particularly in competition, in sport, but not in diplomacy. Making out that one nation is better, by citing your nations pros, whilst listing other countries flaws, ignoring your own flaws, is just foolish.

    This leads to your list of Russia's transgressions during WWII. You are right that Russia had blood on its hands, but so did pretty much every nation that took part. Remember, this was 70yrs ago, before any UN existed and its rules of how conflicts should be fought. It was horrific the kinds of things that were done, on both sides of the war. What mattered to those at home, was the outcome and little else mattered, often to the expense of innocent civilians. It makes my eyes roll that people insist on bringing up 70yr old history to argue the case they're making today, on something that doesn't even relate to what happened back then.

    You cite Russia as a bastion of antidemocratic repression, seriously??? Putin's government may be far from perfect, but he is credited with presiding over the most democratically fair elections in Russia's history, this according to international observers.
    Russia might not be as great when compared to the US, but its moving in the direction it should be. Its not the great evil you seem to think it is, despite its faults, of which some are particularly poignant to the gay community worldwide. If you want a bastion of antidemocratic repression, you have Iran and North Korea living up far closer to such a statement.

    Now let us look at your last comment, about Putin's anti-Americanism. Are you really at all surprised? Not a little bit understanding that Russia may have reason to be a little bit frosty towards the US? The last time that a resolution was sought, over Libya, it was given with the backing of both Russia and China. The resolution stated that all diplomatic routes had to be taken prior to ANY ultimate military action. Yet military action started within 48hrs.
    Then look at espionage. Nobody trusts that the US aren't spying, and we know full well that the UK and Russia ARE. The cold war appears to have been rearing its ugly head over the last several years, and i'm afraid you'd be an idiot to think that its all Russia's fault. Its not.

    I support the core message of Putin's piece in the NY Times. The UN should not be ignored just because some of its permanent members disagree. That is the whole point of the permanent members on the council, to provide the backbone of world stability. If the members cannot agree on one action, then alternative action MUST be the path to take. If measures cannot be decided, then the sad reality, that events may have to take their natural course until the council CAN agree on something, is just the way it has to be. If the US doesn't want to be the World's police, then it must stop trying to be. It must work with the UN, not against it, otherwise the whole system falls apart, and you can proper kiss goodbye to all the agreements on proper conduct and unacceptable military behaviour.

    You may not agree Benvolio, but the reality is that MANY more likely do, and that this time, its not the US doing the most productive thing, but Russia. Obviously, it goes without saying, that its a hard pill to swallow, for blind patriots to jump on another bandwagon, instead of being the bandwagon, especially when that other is 'the commies' eh mate?
    Last edited by mitchymo; September 12th, 2013 at 01:08 PM.

  16. #16

    Re: BREAKING: Putin Posts Op-Ed in NY Times !

    ^^

    I think you need to read a little more about Putin and his repressive actions. If you disagree with him it's likely you'll either end up in prison or dead.

    Under which government would you like to wake up every morning?

  17. #17
    mitchymo
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    Re: BREAKING: Putin Posts Op-Ed in NY Times !

    I don't give a rat's ass about Putin. I give a rat's ass about what Putin is saying on the Syria issue.
    Some people's rhetoric on here is pure protagonism, the US vs Russia. It's not like that, it shouldn't be made out like that. That is not helping. It is military action vs no military action, and since Putin's position is for the latter, he has my agreement, regardless of what kind of person he is otherwise. Have you never heard that even an idiot can offer great advice?

    Under which government would i like to wake up every morning? My own, simple as that. The whole America is better overall argument, does not make the US right on everything, fact.

  18. #18

    Re: BREAKING: Putin Posts Op-Ed in NY Times !

    Remember, it was only the US threat to go alone, to punish the use of the weapons, which caused Putin to get involved, to embarrass the US and protect Assad. It remains to be seen whether anything more than endless talk will result. Putin would have ignored to use of weapons without the US action. Obama is glad to be off the hook.

  19. #19
    Do I dare to eat a peach?
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    Re: BREAKING: Putin Posts Op-Ed in NY Times !

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post
    I don't give a rat's ass about Putin. I give a rat's ass about what Putin is saying on the Syria issue. ...
    Which is the topic of the thread. Some need to have the issue clarified for them lest the topic becomes repression because the newsprint was black.

  20. #20
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    Re: BREAKING: Putin Posts Op-Ed in NY Times !

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Should Obama respond to Putin's piece? I hope so.

    Putin keeps giving the spankings, Obama needs to fight back and overpower him.

    The idea of America is at stake.
    What "idea of America" would that be -- that we're the bully who gets his way because we're the biggest and baddest?

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  21. #21
    Do I dare to eat a peach?
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    Re: BREAKING: Putin Posts Op-Ed in NY Times !

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Should Obama respond to Putin's piece? I hope so.

    Putin keeps giving the spankings, Obama needs to fight back and overpower him.

    The idea of America is at stake.
    Obama will not respond; it might require enunciation of a position. If he does it will be bromidic with white jackboots.

    I would ask the Native Indian Peoples about the idea of America.

  22. #22
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    Re: BREAKING: Putin Posts Op-Ed in NY Times !

    I can't believe Putin's last line. It's like he's trying to sound like an American 'evangelical'.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  23. #23
    Virtus in medio stat JUB Admin opinterph's Avatar
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    Re: BREAKING: Putin Posts Op-Ed in NY Times !

    A collage I made illustrating some of Putin's most repeated words:


  24. #24
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    Re: BREAKING: Putin Posts Op-Ed in NY Times !

    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post
    A collage I made illustrating some of Putin's most repeated words:

    I wonder if they're that jumbled in his mind.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  25. #25
    Virtus in medio stat JUB Admin opinterph's Avatar
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    Re: BREAKING: Putin Posts Op-Ed in NY Times !

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    I wonder if they're that jumbled in his mind.
    I doubt very seriously that Mr. Putin wrote the Op-Ed published under his name.

  26. #26
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    Re: BREAKING: Putin Posts Op-Ed in NY Times !

    Quote Originally Posted by palbert View Post
    Obama will not respond; it might require enunciation of a position. If he does it will be bromidic with white jackboots.

    I would ask the Native Indian Peoples about the idea of America.
    I imagine that people in Bangalore are less than enamored of us. Perhaps Calcutta will be nicer?
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

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    Re: BREAKING: Putin Posts Op-Ed in NY Times !

    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post
    I doubt very seriously that Mr. Putin wrote the Op-Ed published under his name.
    That's precisely what I was thinking - but bravo to his ghost writer, Putin comes across as thoughtful and prudent, with a paramount respect for law.
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

  28. #28

    Re: BREAKING: Putin Posts Op-Ed in NY Times !

    It's assumed the op-ed piece was written by Putin's New York PR company.

  29. #29
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    Re: BREAKING: Putin Posts Op-Ed in NY Times !

    I think you mean "self loathing closet cases," how 'bout it closet cases, are you supporting?
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

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