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Thread: What is new on the Gay Marriage front?

      
   
  1. #301
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: What is new on the Gay Marriage front?

    Yeah, you are actually probably right. Wasn't he famous for bursting in tears when gay marriage passed in NY?
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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    Re: What is new on the Gay Marriage front?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Yeah, you are actually probably right. Wasn't he famous for bursting in tears when gay marriage passed in NY?
    That image is recycled a lot, yeah, especially by JMG.

    We are seeing more of his hate come out now that NOM has nothing better to do than twiddle its thumbs on the marriage issue. Brown has expanded onto fighting gender identity rights, ENDA, and everything else in the kitchen sink.

  3. #303
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    Re: What is new on the Gay Marriage front?

    Sad, empty existence. Have you read "Bigot Christmas" by Dan Savage btw? Where he describes that famous debate dinner he threw for Brown? I loved it.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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    Re: What is new on the Gay Marriage front?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Sad, empty existence. Have you read "Bigot Christmas" by Dan Savage btw? Where he describes that famous debate dinner he threw for Brown? I loved it.
    No, but I will look for it.

    Wow he's like 50 and looks great for his age.

    ---

    Oh is it a book titled "American Savage."

  5. #305
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    Re: What is new on the Gay Marriage front?

    Who, Savage? He's hot. Too bad he's a top, but I would be MORE than satisfied with his husband, after I saw the swimwear photoshoot of him ^_^

    Sorry, channeling other forum members for a second there... I am not sure if it's available online, I bought Savage's latest book - American Savage - and it was there.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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  6. #306

    Re: What is new on the Gay Marriage front?

    Personally I think these statistics are off but here's a look at the next states poised to have same-sex marriage:

    http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...ality-20131127

    Colorado is very likely to soon announce they will move to put the issue on the ballot in 2014.

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    Re: What is new on the Gay Marriage front?

    Quote Originally Posted by scream4ever View Post
    Personally I think these statistics are off but here's a look at the next states poised to have same-sex marriage:

    http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...ality-20131127

    Colorado is very likely to soon announce they will move to put the issue on the ballot in 2014.
    Yeah those statistics are silly. We all know it's 100% chance in all 50 states. Okay, maybe not right away, but they were still completely made up. New Mexico is not 3-2 likely. It is very likely, and so is Oregon. I put New Mexico as topping 95% that they will return judgment in favor of same sex marriage based on the arguments that I myself witnessed in court on October 23.

    This I will say, it is going to be harder for the media to get the facts right with so much going on. They will have journalists who really aren't experienced writing about the topic prognosticating on events and giving incorrect details and using incorrect terminology.

    For information, I would stick to news from the organizations actually doing the work, or primary sources such as government documents, court orders, etc. Of course, we will do a hefty bit of reporting here trying to establish the most accurate information and best guesses as to the future.
    Last edited by Alnitak; November 29th, 2013 at 03:32 PM.

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    Re: What is new on the Gay Marriage front?

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrobin View Post
    '
    Dolan: Catholics 'outmarketed' on gay marriage

    Wasn't Dolan the one who won't let us march in the St. Patrick's Day parade in NYC?


    Outmarketed? Why don't you contact J. Walter Thompson. You can afford it.


    Actually, you can blame individuals who love their partners. Love has nothing to do with either politicians or Hollywood. You're just looking for someone to blame.

    I know it won't, but don't tell Pope Francis.

    Your eminence, please check the part of the U.S. Constitution which reads, "Equal protection under the law." If you can forgive me for being gay, I'll disregard the Spanish Inquisition.
    The Roman church has never been very good at reading the Bible. Despite supposedly admitting their error, they still want to be in charge not just of Christianity, but of every government they can manage to control.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: What is new on the Gay Marriage front?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    Yeah those statistics are silly. We all know it's 100% chance in all 50 states. Okay, maybe not right away, but they were still completely made up. New Mexico is not 3-2 likely. It is very likely, and so is Oregon. I put New Mexico as topping 95% that they will return judgment in favor of same sex marriage based on the arguments that I myself witnessed in court on October 23.

    This I will say, it is going to be harder for the media to get the facts right with so much going on. They will have journalists who really aren't experienced writing about the topic prognosticating on events and giving incorrect details and using incorrect terminology.

    For information, I would stick to news from the organizations actually doing the work, or primary sources such as government documents, court orders, etc. Of course, we will do a hefty bit of reporting here trying to establish the most accurate information and best guesses as to the future.
    If all the young people would get out and vote, in Oregon we could amend the state constitution to recognize whatever people decided was marriage if they loved each other and were consenting adults.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  10. #310
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    Re: What is new on the Gay Marriage front?

    The Next Five States to Legalize Marriage Equality

    Read more: http://m.rollingstone.com/politics/n...ality-20131127



    I hope Oregon does it soon.
    I couldn't get my mind off you all day.
    ~~~~ ~~

  11. #311

    Re: What is new on the Gay Marriage front?

    Still waiting on Bostic v McDonnell...

  12. #312

    Re: What is new on the Gay Marriage front?

    Virginia will likely beat Oregon, since the district court has a democratic appointed judge and is known for being very fast (the average length of time from filing to decision is only 1 year), and also due to the fact that Democrats have taken every statewide office, no one will appeal such a decision.

  13. #313
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    Re: What is new on the Gay Marriage front?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thynight View Post
    LOL

    scream just posted that article.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vitamin View Post
    Still waiting on Bostic v McDonnell...
    McDonnell was excused from the case. The defendant is now the state registrar Janet Rainey.

    In both Bostic v. Rainey and Harris v. McDonnell we are waiting on a ruling on summary judgment.
    Last edited by Alnitak; December 1st, 2013 at 05:44 AM.

  14. #314
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    Re: What is new on the Gay Marriage front?

    Quote Originally Posted by scream4ever View Post
    Virginia will likely beat Oregon, since the district court has a democratic appointed judge and is known for being very fast (the average length of time from filing to decision is only 1 year), and also due to the fact that Democrats have taken every statewide office, no one will appeal such a decision.
    Sevcik could also make Oregon's ballot initiative a symbolic repeal rather than an effective one.

  15. #315
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    Re: What is new on the Gay Marriage front?

    Things to look forward to this week

    • Hawaii marriage license applications start at midnight.
    • Also tomorrow, the Utah case Kitchen v. Herbert goes in for a hearing on summary judgment.
    • Wednesday, final reply briefs are due in Sevcik v. Sandoval, the Nevada case currently under appeal. Court dates should be scheduled shortly after.
    • And we are still waiting on the New Mexico Supreme Court

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    Re: What is new on the Gay Marriage front?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    Sevcik could also make Oregon's ballot initiative a symbolic repeal rather than an effective one.
    I can't recall the issue, but Oregon has done double whammies like that before, sinking something both in the courts and by vote of the people.

    It gives us a chance to comment on how sometimes the courts are as smart as the people....

    But besides that, it's nice to clear away the crap from the law books -- unlike in some southern states that still have laws on the books that the Supreme Court deep-sixed.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  17. #317
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    Re: What is new on the Gay Marriage front?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    I can't recall the issue, but Oregon has done double whammies like that before, sinking something both in the courts and by vote of the people.

    It gives us a chance to comment on how sometimes the courts are as smart as the people....
    Any state is free to codify common law, at any time. The Southern States all have eventually passed their own bans on slavery, civil rights laws, and repeals on anti-miscegenation. I suspect a similar delay will occur for sodomy laws and marriage bans in Southern States.

    States such as Oregon will do it much sooner, obviously, and I think California really ought to do it symbolically in 2016. I think the vote would top 60%.

  18. #318
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    Re: What is new on the Gay Marriage front?

    Current status..

    19 countries, 695 million people, and 9.7% of the world's population.

    16 US states and eight counties of New Mexico, 119 million Americans, and 37.58% of the US population.

    These marriages may also be registered in Israel.

    Many more to come

  19. #319
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    Re: What is new on the Gay Marriage front?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    [SIZE=3]
    These marriages may also be registered in Israel.
    That's got to really piss off the fundies.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  20. #320
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    Re: What is new on the Gay Marriage front?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    That's got to really piss off the fundies.
    Actually I've never seen it mentioned in any right wing article, perhaps only when the Supreme Court of Israel instituted that rule in 2006, but not since. Israel does not have civil marriage, so to make the law fair they said outside marriages could be registered.
    Last edited by Alnitak; December 2nd, 2013 at 01:32 PM.

  21. #321
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    Re: What is new on the Gay Marriage front?

    Australia's first same sex marriages will take place this Saturday in the Australian Capital Territory (ACT). The ACT law provides for a legally nuanced marriage scheme, which I do not understand, but apparently operates on some loophole in Australia's 2004 marriage act. The High Court of Australia heard arguments over the ACT law's legality today, and will issue a ruling on December 12. The 40 couples who registered in advance will be able to marry at least during those five days.

    http://www.queerty.com/heres-what-yo...utm_medium=web
    Last edited by Alnitak; December 3rd, 2013 at 12:25 PM.

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    Re: What is new on the Gay Marriage front?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    Australia's first same sex marriages will take place this Saturday in the Australian Capital Territory (ACT). The ACT law provides for a legally nuanced marriage scheme, which I do not understand, but apparently operates on some loophole in Australia's 2004 marriage act. The High Court of Australia heard arguments over the ACT law's legality today, and will issue a ruling on December 12. The 40 couples who registered in advance will be able to marry at least during those five days.

    http://www.queerty.com/heres-what-yo...utm_medium=web
    Now that's what I call a slender loophole! Since the law apparently only mentions heterosexuals, they're saying it's only for heterosexuals, so it doesn't restrict same-sex marriages.

    This should be fun.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  23. #323
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    Re: What is new on the Gay Marriage front?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Now that's what I call a slender loophole! Since the law apparently only mentions heterosexuals, they're saying it's only for heterosexuals, so it doesn't restrict same-sex marriages.

    This should be fun.
    Persuasive pressure by other commonwealth countries is crushing.

    The high court cannot be aware of the decisions in Canada and South Africa, and the legislation passed in New Zealand and England, and Scotland already by its first reading, and conclude that Australia is not seriously backwards on same sex marriage.

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    Re: What is new on the Gay Marriage front?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    Persuasive pressure by other commonwealth countries is crushing.

    The high court cannot be aware of the decisions in Canada and South Africa, and the legislation passed in New Zealand and England, and Scotland already by its first reading, and conclude that Australia is not seriously backwards on same sex marriage.
    How much weight does other Commonwealth practice have?

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  25. #325
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    Re: What is new on the Gay Marriage front?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    How much weight does other Commonwealth practice have?
    I consulted a UK legal encyclopedia, which seems to confirm the general assumption that the commonwealth countries are persuasive towards each other. When that is five against one, I think the odds are pretty well stacked.

    Decisions of courts in other countries

    This particulary applies to Commonwealth countries such as Australia, New Zealand and Canada as their legal systems have evolved in a very similar way to our own.

    http://www.lawmentor.co.uk/glossary/...ive-precedent/
    And here is a quote from an article about foreign precedent.

    [Professor] Worthington explains that "Australia still looks to the UK, New Zealand and Canada... which reflects the feelings of cultural similarities... arguments referencing those three are very common..."

    http://www.justis.com/news/articles/...ll-story-2.pdf

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    Re: What is new on the Gay Marriage front?

    Mexican PDR senator will introduce a marriage bill in the Senate.

    http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/m...tionally041213

    Success all depends on the dominant and centrist PRI party, to which the current president also belongs. According to the link above, it has no public position as of yet, although the president has previously said the issue is one of states rights.

  27. #327

    Re: What is new on the Gay Marriage front?

    Mexico would be a huge victory population-wise. If the Supreme Court carries any sway it should pass.

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    Re: What is new on the Gay Marriage front?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    Mexican PDR senator will introduce a marriage bill in the Senate.

    http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/m...tionally041213

    Success all depends on the dominant and centrist PRI party, to which the current president also belongs. According to the link above, it has no public position as of yet, although the president has previously said the issue is one of states rights.
    PRI, long the sole party in Mexico, won't take a position unless they think not doing so will cost them electorally.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  29. #329
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    Re: What is new on the Gay Marriage front?

    A hearing on summary judgment was held in Utah today over its marriage case.

    The judge is an Obama appointee with a reputation for being a straight shooter apparently.

    A ruling on summary judgment is expected by January when a trial date could be set as well.

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/c...e-ban-21091519

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    Re: What is new on the Gay Marriage front?

    No court dates planned until Utah's scheduling conference on January 7th.

    Some of the outstanding actions we are waiting for are summary judgment rulings in Utah and Virginia, and the written opinion in New Mexico. The last two could come at any moment of any day now.

    Meanwhile, Tim Huelskamp's threat to pass a Federal Marriage Amendment to the states after the Windsor decision has but 57 cosponsors, and not even a quarter of House Republicans.

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    Re: What is new on the Gay Marriage front?

    Oregon technically has the required number of signatures, but activists will continue collecting signatures until a comfortable margin is reached. No worries, they are due by the summer and the 116K already collected has been done in the last four months.

    Oregon Campaign For Gay Marriage Hits Signature Goal

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    Re: What is new on the Gay Marriage front?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    Oregon technically has the required number of signatures, but activists will continue collecting signatures until a comfortable margin is reached. No worries, they are due by the summer and the 116K already collected has been done in the last four months.

    Oregon Campaign For Gay Marriage Hits Signature Goal
    As long as the bigots didn't encourage people to sign with false information... If that sort of tactic is suspected, it's best to shoot for 20% over the requirement, so challenged signatures become irrelevant. But a the rate they're going, my guess is they'll be turning in over a quarter million signatures by the deadline.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: What is new on the Gay Marriage front?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    As long as the bigots didn't encourage people to sign with false information... If that sort of tactic is suspected, it's best to shoot for 20% over the requirement, so challenged signatures become irrelevant. But a the rate they're going, my guess is they'll be turning in over a quarter million signatures by the deadline.
    It's against the law in Maryland to commit election fraud or tamper with petitions, and I'm sure it's the same in Oregon. In any event, they will shoot for as many as they can get. There are plenty of volunteers.

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    Re: What is new on the Gay Marriage front?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    It's against the law in Maryland to commit election fraud or tamper with petitions, and I'm sure it's the same in Oregon. In any event, they will shoot for as many as they can get. There are plenty of volunteers.
    Oh, it's against the law, but all they have to really do is switch two digits in their address, or "forget" one, and the signature is thrown out if challenged. It's a nasty tactic, though not likely to account for more than ten percent of signers.

    I suppose I've been torquing the law when I filled in everything about a friend except his signature and then handing the form to him to sign, without telling him what it was -- but then my argument always is, "You don't have to support it, you just have to believe people should have a chance to vote on it".

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: What is new on the Gay Marriage front?

    I do believe the bigots believe they are going to lose in Oregon,hence the reason they're trying to put a bill on the ballot that will allow vendors engaged in commercial business the right to refuse gay and lesbian couples on religious grounds.
    If you read the bill,it's unconstitutional on its face as it applies to gays and lesbians couples and them alone.

  36. #336

    Re: What is new on the Gay Marriage front?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja108 View Post
    I do believe the bigots believe they are going to lose in Oregon,hence the reason they're trying to put a bill on the ballot that will allow vendors engaged in commercial business the right to refuse gay and lesbian couples on religious grounds.
    If you read the bill,it's unconstitutional on its face as it applies to gays and lesbians couples and them alone.
    The funny thing about this attempt is that it's likely to increase support for our measure in the end, and indeed will be struck down swiftly if the recent ruling from Colorado is any indication.

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    Re: What is new on the Gay Marriage front?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja108 View Post
    I do believe the bigots believe they are going to lose in Oregon,hence the reason they're trying to put a bill on the ballot that will allow vendors engaged in commercial business the right to refuse gay and lesbian couples on religious grounds.
    If you read the bill,it's unconstitutional on its face as it applies to gays and lesbians couples and them alone.
    These people are just like Wayne LaPierre, now -- they don't care, so long as they keep the money flowing, which they do by making people afraid.

    There's a chance that measure may not make it to the ballot -- IIRC, a measure can be challenged as blatantly unconstitutional and taken to the courts before the state wastes money putting it before the voters.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: What is new on the Gay Marriage front?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    IIRC, a measure can be challenged as blatantly unconstitutional and taken to the courts before the state wastes money putting it before the voters.
    Even then it's a long shot to keep a referendum off the ballot. Most successful challenges have occurred where the wording was confusing or misleading, "unlawfully vague," or because they relied on some legal fiction. More successful lawsuits come after the fact when there is an actual legal injury. Anyway, direct state democracy is really a flawed style of governing, and expensive. California leads the nation in pricey ballot initiatives that were later thrown out by federal court.
    Last edited by Alnitak; December 10th, 2013 at 01:56 PM.

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    Re: What is new on the Gay Marriage front?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    Even then it's a long shot to keep a referendum off the ballot. Most successful challenges have occurred where the wording was confusing or misleading, "unlawfully vague," or because they relied on some legal fiction. More successful lawsuits come after the fact when there is an actual legal injury. Anyway, direct state democracy is really a flawed style of governing, and expensive. California leads the nation in pricey ballot initiatives that were later thrown out by federal court.
    I'm always amused by Democrats saying that.

    Actually, in Oregon I think having that process has made politicians pay a little more attention to the people.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: What is new on the Gay Marriage front?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    I'm always amused by Democrats saying that.
    Mob rule is flawed, sorry. You have no protection from demagoguery. Anyone, including some of the most malicious corporations and conservative groups, with misleading ads can enact any dangerous legislation they want.

    Actually, in Oregon I think having that process has made politicians pay a little more attention to the people.
    I know. Our politicians are constantly "campaigning" while in office and getting nothing practical done, just more soundbites for the media.

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    Re: What is new on the Gay Marriage front?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    Mob rule is flawed, sorry. You have no protection from demagoguery. Anyone, including some of the most malicious corporations and conservative groups, with misleading ads can enact any dangerous legislation they want.
    Of course mob rule is flawed -- but one would think it would be Republicans pointing that out.

    As for corporations and ads, those are separate topics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    I know. Our politicians are constantly "campaigning" while in office and getting nothing practical done, just more soundbites for the media.
    We're not that bad... yet. But it is bad enough I sometimes think we should just draw randomly from a set of all the college educated people in the country.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: What is new on the Gay Marriage front?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Of course mob rule is flawed -- but one would think it would be Republicans pointing that out.

    As for corporations and ads, those are separate topics.
    You can't separate the good from the bad on this one. Mob rule can be used for both, but I argue it has been mostly abused, and the benefits do not outweigh the threat to minority rights.

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    Re: What is new on the Gay Marriage front?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    You can't separate the good from the bad on this one. Mob rule can be used for both, but I argue it has been mostly abused, and the benefits do not outweigh the threat to minority rights.
    There's a point: for any initiative measure, any party should be allowed to petition a court to declare the matter one of individual rights, minority or otherwise, and if the court so declares, the measure is off the ballot. My theory of standing would be that if the rights of one person are suffering, then all suffer. Oh -- such a petition should get an immediate hearing, straight to the head of the line above everything else.

    The real problem with intitiatives, in the way they've been abused in Oregon, is that they mitigate against "government of the people, by the people, and for the people", because in practice they mean that the people in the cities are lords and masters of the rest.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: What is new on the Gay Marriage front?

    Same-sex marriage to become legal in England and Wales March 29

    On a point of pedantry, it is the law just not effective until March 29. This is much sooner than the summer as it was expected. We are also expecting completion of Scotland's bill by that time, and perhaps Finland.
    Last edited by Alnitak; December 11th, 2013 at 12:08 AM.

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    Re: What is new on the Gay Marriage front?

    http://blog.mysanantonio.com/texas-p...cmpid=hpbrnews

    A judge in San Antonio might lift the ban in Texas following a hearing scheduled for February 12

    Hang on White Eagle

  46. #346
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    Re: What is new on the Gay Marriage front?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    http://blog.mysanantonio.com/texas-p...cmpid=hpbrnews

    A judge in San Antonio might lift the ban in Texas following a hearing scheduled for February 12

    Hang on White Eagle
    Wouldn't that be a nice present for (St.) Valentine's Day!

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: What is new on the Gay Marriage front?

    I do think the Oregon measure will pass but I'm still loathe to put our rights up for a majority vote.

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    Re: What is new on the Gay Marriage front?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja108 View Post
    I do think the Oregon measure will pass but I'm still loathe to put our rights up for a majority vote.
    You know what it could actually be overturned by the 9th Circuit in the Nevada case before it is even voted on. You're right these campaigns send the wrong message but for right now we have to exercise all options. The lies that come out from the other side are hard to bear, and that's why courts are ideal. However there are major cultural benefits to winning big at the ballot that can't be ignored. Next year is the year when we bury the anti SSM movement for good, in the US anyway.
    Last edited by Alnitak; December 12th, 2013 at 04:40 PM.

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    Re: What is new on the Gay Marriage front?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja108 View Post
    I do think the Oregon measure will pass but I'm still loathe to put our rights up for a majority vote.
    IMO, the vote merely serves to show that enough citizens are mature enough to handle it.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: What is new on the Gay Marriage front?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    You know what it could actually be overturned by the 9th Circuit in the Nevada case before it is even voted on. You're right these campaigns send the wrong message but for right now we have to exercise all options. The lies that come out from the other side are hard to bear, and that's why courts are ideal. However there are major cultural benefits to winning big at the ballot that can't be ignored. Next year is the year when we bury the anti SSM movement for good, in the US anyway.
    I don't see how the Ninth can fail to toss Nevada's ban, and thus all those in the rest of the circuit. The argument that the state by its law is standing between citizens and their lawful federal benefits is death to the opposition.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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