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    JUB Addict chrisrobin's Avatar
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    House GOP on health care: For repeal, not replace

    .

    http://news.yahoo.com/house-gop-heal...074334349.html





    Go have another Merlot, Johnny.
    Last edited by chrisrobin; July 22nd, 2013 at 06:03 AM.

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  2. #2

    Re: House GOP on health care: For repeal, not replace

    Most Americans already have health care, while we have Medicaid for those who do not or cannot not buy their own. Perhapse it needs adjustment, but authoritarianism is not the answer. Let us reduce poverty so people can afford health care.

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    Re: House GOP on health care: For repeal, not replace

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Most Americans already have health care, while we have Medicaid for those who do not or cannot not buy their own. Perhapse it needs adjustment, but authoritarianism is not the answer. Let us reduce poverty so people can afford health care.
    That's a lie. Over 20 states (all republican red states) have opted out of expanding Medicaid to the uninsured, keeping in lockstep with their toxic ideology. Look up some facts. That means that all the people in those states who do not or cannot buy insurance will remain uninsured with no option except emergency room care, the most expensive care there is, that taxpayers in those red states will continue to pay.

    How many jobs bills have you republicans obstructed? So stop lecturing about reducing poverty until you produce the millions of jobs you promised as a result of the Bush tax cuts.

  4. #4

    Re: House GOP on health care: For repeal, not replace

    The states continue to have Medicare, just not the expanded version. The Bush tax cost did create jobs, but they were lost after the Dems took Congress in Nov 06. Obama care is destroying jobs even now, as employers try to avoid the burden, by reducing the number of full time employees.

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    Re: House GOP on health care: For repeal, not replace

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    The states continue to have Medicare, just not the expanded version. The Bush tax cost did create jobs, but they were lost after the Dems took Congress in Nov 06. Obama care is destroying jobs even now, as employers try to avoid the burden, by reducing the number of full time employees.
    Funny--you really live in the republican bubble---look--there is going to be health care in this country one way or another as this law gets tweaked--you talk about Medicare--gop was and is against that too---health care is a mess because gop never did a thing about it in all the years they could---and they are against all these things, just for the sake of being against them---as long as the hypocrites are getting all their government benefits---I heard an interesting story on NPR--a man was a strong libertarian---took nothing from the government--he saved a million dollars for health care--he used it up quickly when he and family got sick---when he got seriously ill, he died rather than be taken to an emergency room---now that is a man of principle (a little delusional) but he at least he lived what he believed.

  6. #6

    Re: House GOP on health care: For repeal, not replace

    The minority who pay income taxes are going to have to pay more for their own insurance under the Democrat plan, then they will have to give health care to the tax exempt majority of the people, then get in line behind them for degraded health care. Then they will have to watch research and development slow down to a crawl, as it must under socialism.

  7. #7
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: House GOP on health care: For repeal, not replace

    It is so enlightening to see that even here Benvolio can't not show his xenophobia. It's subtle, but let's follow the logical thought process:

    1. Dems "flood the country with millions of poor illegal immigrants".
    2. Immigrants are all poor and don't pay taxes.
    3. Real true red-white-and-blue blooded Americans pay taxes.
    4. AND THEN THEY WILL HAVE TO STAND IN LINE BEHIND A BROWN IMMIGRANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    My ex said that to me a year and a half ago, when we were discussing Obamacare: "Republicans are just horrified that they won't get preferential treatment and might end up in line behind a black or a brown guy." It's ironic how right he turns out to be...
    Last edited by opinterph; July 23rd, 2013 at 08:52 PM. Reason: removed duplicate content
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    Oranje rareboy's Avatar
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    Re: House GOP on health care: For repeal, not replace

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    The minority who pay income taxes are going to have to pay more for their own insurance under the Democrat plan, then they will have to give health care to the tax exempt majority of the people, then get in line behind them for degraded health care. Then they will have to watch research and development slow down to a crawl, as it must under socialism.
    Liar.

    You have not ever, ever been able to prove nor have you made even the least attempt to prove this ridiculous point. It is utterly false. Princess Margaret Hospital in Canada is one of the leading research centres in the world. The Hospital for Sick Children is one of the leading paediatric research centres in the world. Like most others they are supported by public funding and private largesse.

    The security of single payer funding for health services has actually resulted in many innovations and technologies being brought to market by the European, Asian and North American imaging and bio-medical technology companies.

    Stop lying.

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    Oranje rareboy's Avatar
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    Re: House GOP on health care: For repeal, not replace

    The other thing that you never respond to is that the US has the highest case cost with the worst outcomes compared to socialized medicine countries. You are defending the utterly indefensible. The dollars in the US healthcare system aren't going into clinical care and innovation.They are going into the 7 figure bonuses of the insurance company managers who decide who lives and who dies in the US.

  10. #10

    Re: House GOP on health care: For repeal, not replace

    "While there are many opinions about our nation's health care system (particularly in Washington), there's one overwhelming area of consensus -- the United States leads the world in medical innovation.

    In addition to the best and brightest practicing medicine and state-of-art medical facilities, we have benefited from having the best and, usually, the earliest access to the latest medical technologies and innovations. In large part, this is because they were discovered, developed and produced here in America" [url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kenneth-thorpe/medical-

    Source Link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kennet..._b_807796.html

    That was the liberal Huffington Post. the reason the US has had the best care in the world is because of our leadership in medical innovation as a result of all the money we put into it, including those mean old drug and device companies Obama hates so much.
    Admittedly, not everyone has that case in the same degree.

    And no, an opinion about the future is not a lie because no one knows the future, they only have opinions.
    Last edited by opinterph; July 23rd, 2013 at 08:59 PM. Reason: added quote tags and functional source link; Refer to CE&P Posting Guidelines

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    Re: House GOP on health care: For repeal, not replace

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    The other thing that you never respond to is that the US has the highest case cost with the worst outcomes compared to socialized medicine countries. .
    Do a little research and you'll find that the facts don't back up your utterly ridiculous statement.

    http://www.cancer.org/acs/groups/con...spc-027766.pdf


    Pay particular attention to Table 5 - Five year cancer survival rates by type of cancer, compared by country.
    It is an absolute fact that the US has the best healthcare system in the world, and the only thing in dispute
    is how it's distributed. It's also an absolute fact that obamacare, if it is allowed to proceed, will completely
    and utterly destroy that system.

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    Re: House GOP on health care: For repeal, not replace

    The GOP Health Care is called NO CARE. Few years ago I had to switch health care coverage. Since I pre existing condition of kidney stones I was required to pay higher premium and would have coverage on the condition for year. Lucky I did not end up in the hospital again. This is one many advantages of the new Health Care law ones does get punished for pre existing illness.

    By the way if the members of the GOP in the House and Senate don't like Health Care they then they should be required to pay fot there coverage not us TAX PAYERS.

  13. #13

    Re: House GOP on health care: For repeal, not replace

    Under Obamacare, OTHER people are punished for your preexisting illness. That is the purpose of requiring everyone to buy insurance at inflated premiums. Heath young people have to pay for your insurance or pay a "tax".

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    Virtus in medio stat JUB Admin opinterph's Avatar
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    Re: House GOP on health care: For repeal, not replace

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Under Obamacare, OTHER people are punished for your preexisting illness. That is the purpose of requiring everyone to buy insurance at inflated premiums.
    I seem to recall that the law requires private insurance companies to return monetary rebates to their customers, in the event that the premiums they collect are found to be inflated (e.g. more than is necessary to cover actual medical expenditures of the persons they insure plus a reasonable percentage for administration costs and profits).

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    Re: House GOP on health care: For repeal, not replace

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    Do a little research and you'll find that the facts don't back up your utterly ridiculous statement.

    http://www.cancer.org/acs/groups/con...spc-027766.pdf


    Pay particular attention to Table 5 - Five year cancer survival rates by type of cancer, compared by country.
    It is an absolute fact that the US has the best healthcare system in the world, and the only thing in dispute
    is how it's distributed. It's also an absolute fact that obamacare, if it is allowed to proceed, will completely
    and utterly destroy that system.
    Oh God. The Reardon arises. Overall, the US has the highest case cost and poorest outcomes for all medical care. I've posted the cites previously. Cherry picking by cmg does not prove Benvolio's absurd claim.

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    Re: House GOP on health care: For repeal, not replace

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    Oh God. The Reardon arises. Overall, the US has the highest case cost and poorest outcomes for all medical care. I've posted the cites previously. Cherry picking by cmg does not prove Benvolio's absurd claim.
    Yet another baseless statement without a shred of backup.

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    Re: House GOP on health care: For repeal, not replace

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    The dollars in the US healthcare system aren't going into clinical care and innovation.They are going into the 7 figure bonuses of the insurance company managers who decide who lives and who dies in the US death panels.
    Alternative, and entirely correct, meaning.
    "All legal U. S. residents who are 18 years or older, shall have an unconditional right to vote." - 28th Amendment, US Constitution?
    "But, hey, who cares about women and their rights when the religious liberty of a nationwide chain of arts and crafts stores is at stake?" - Daily Kos, 30 June 2014
    "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires" - Susan B. Anthony

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    Re: House GOP on health care: For repeal, not replace

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    Yet another baseless statement without a shred of backup.
    BASELESS? the entire PLANET knows that the United States has by far the most unaffordable health care system of any country in all of human history. Somebody needs to exist their entire life in a cave, or perhaps be part of the cannibal tree-people tribe on New Guinea far removed from modern civilization, or be entirely and absolutely brainwashed by the teabaggers, to not know this or think it's a lie. There are many thousands of comparisons, and they all point the same way, but your Fox News, Rush, etc. will always sweep it under the magic carpet. Google is your friend.

    http://www.hcmarketplace.com/prod-11...wS2&spJobID=71

    Order Patient-Centered Care Transitions for Better Quality, Costs, and Readmissions and see how creating patient-centered care transitions can help decrease costs, reduce readmission rates


    Program Agenda
    •Reasons for the shift to patient-focused care transitions
    •Meeting the medical mission of putting the patient first
    •US has worst outcomes and highest cost of healthcare
    http://onpoint.wbur.org/2012/08/01/f...caid-expansion

    [CAPTION UNDER PICTURE]: Texas already has one of the nation’s most restrictive Medicaid programs, offering coverage only to the disabled, children and parents who earn less than $2,256 a year for a family of three. Without a Medicaid expansion, the state’s working poor will continue relying on emergency rooms _ the most costly treatment option _ instead of primary care doctors
    HUMAN SURVIVAL is impossible on $2,256 per year in the United States, unless you're living as one of 17 people jammed into a one-bedroom apartment. I am in touch with somebody in Florida who has been homeless for years (he uses library computers), and he puts together a financial report monthly detailing his income and expenditures TO THE PENNY, and he receives well more than $2,256 per year - yet, having reliable shelter is entirely impossible. What saves him is that he speaks well - well enough that he is able to get flown to occasional LGBT organization events to give speeches or do some coordination.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datab...of-world-obama

    Read the chart and weep. Of the nations compared, the United States has one of the lowest life expectancies, and healthcare costs far more per capita than in any other country listed.

    Listed are the G8 countries, plus China and Cuba.
    "All legal U. S. residents who are 18 years or older, shall have an unconditional right to vote." - 28th Amendment, US Constitution?
    "But, hey, who cares about women and their rights when the religious liberty of a nationwide chain of arts and crafts stores is at stake?" - Daily Kos, 30 June 2014
    "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires" - Susan B. Anthony

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    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: House GOP on health care: For repeal, not replace

    Yeah, but all they care about is that the select few who can afford the best healthcare, have some of the best care in the world. THAT's what's relevant, not the hundreds of thousands of uninsured or the backbreaking costs that are beyond the 99%'s ability to pay...
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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  20. #20

    Re: House GOP on health care: For repeal, not replace

    Hey, republicans do indeed have a replacement fort health care.

    If you get sick, die quickly.

    National Health Care would not be healthy for wealthy stockholder's profits and CEO pay.

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    Re: House GOP on health care: For repeal, not replace

    ^ Now it's morphed into PLEASE die quickly.
    "All legal U. S. residents who are 18 years or older, shall have an unconditional right to vote." - 28th Amendment, US Constitution?
    "But, hey, who cares about women and their rights when the religious liberty of a nationwide chain of arts and crafts stores is at stake?" - Daily Kos, 30 June 2014
    "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires" - Susan B. Anthony

  22. #22
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    Re: House GOP on health care: For repeal, not replace

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Most Americans already have health care, while we have Medicaid for those who do not or cannot not buy their own. Perhapse it needs adjustment, but authoritarianism is not the answer. Let us reduce poverty so people can afford health care.
    Want to reduce poverty?

    Get corporations to pay people what their work is actually worth.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  23. #23
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    Re: House GOP on health care: For repeal, not replace

    I didn't have health insurance, because it was not included as a benefit from my employer, so when I was diagnosed with Stage 4 Hodgkin's Lymphoma, I ended up at the state's premier Cancer Research Institute, because that is where my state's Medicaid program told me to go. I could pick up the binder that contains the copies of my medical bills and add them up and give you an exact total, but I do not feel like doing that right now. But each week, I received a bill for over 10,000 dollars for my chemotherapy treatment. This came up to roughly 240,000 dollars in Chemotherapy drugs for the course of my treatment. In Finland, each of those treatments would have cost 250 Euros or $329.82 US, or about $3,000.00 for a six month course of treatment. One of the biggest reasons for this is because other countries who have socialized medicine do not let the drug companies inflate their prices about 30 times. Also, countries with Socialized Medicine do no have several different prices for the same drug. In the U.S. the drug companies send representatives to doctors and insurance companies trying to sell their drug and offering deals to insurance companies to sell their drug. A few months ago, my health care quit paying for my cholesterol drug. My doctor actually called the insurance company to find out why they were denying the prescription, and they told him that basically, they had a deal with the company that sells one cholesterol drug, and they were getting this specific drug at a specific price, so thy were denying prescriptions for other cholesterol drugs. If you wanted the prescription covered prescribe the drug they wanted to sell.

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    Oranje rareboy's Avatar
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    Re: House GOP on health care: For repeal, not replace

    Quote Originally Posted by frankfrank View Post
    BASELESS? the entire PLANET knows that the United States has by far the most unaffordable health care system of any country in all of human history. Somebody needs to exist their entire life in a cave, or perhaps be part of the cannibal tree-people tribe on New Guinea far removed from modern civilization, or be entirely and absolutely brainwashed by the teabaggers, to not know this or think it's a lie. There are many thousands of comparisons, and they all point the same way, but your Fox News, Rush, etc. will always sweep it under the magic carpet. Google is your friend.

    http://www.hcmarketplace.com/prod-11...wS2&spJobID=71



    http://onpoint.wbur.org/2012/08/01/f...caid-expansion

    HUMAN SURVIVAL is impossible on $2,256 per year in the United States, unless you're living as one of 17 people jammed into a one-bedroom apartment. I am in touch with somebody in Florida who has been homeless for years (he uses library computers), and he puts together a financial report monthly detailing his income and expenditures TO THE PENNY, and he receives well more than $2,256 per year - yet, having reliable shelter is entirely impossible. What saves him is that he speaks well - well enough that he is able to get flown to occasional LGBT organization events to give speeches or do some coordination.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datab...of-world-obama

    Read the chart and weep. Of the nations compared, the United States has one of the lowest life expectancies, and healthcare costs far more per capita than in any other country listed.

    Listed are the G8 countries, plus China and Cuba.
    Thanks Frank. I didn't have the time to add the cites last evening. Only corporations who are raping the consumers with unjustifed medical costs and egregious insurance premiums seem to really believe and propagate the lie that somehow America has the best health care in the world. For the very small percentage who can can afford it, the results may be excellent, but for most people in the country, the access to care has been increasingly constrained as it has become unaffordable.

  25. #25

    Re: House GOP on health care: For repeal, not replace

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Want to reduce poverty?

    Get corporations to pay people what their work is actually worth.
    The value of labor is determined by the market, i.e. what people are willing to pay for it. An excess of labor results in low wages. A shortage of workers results in higher wages. Skilled labor is harder to find and wages are higher.
    But remember, the labor cost to the employer in the US is much, much higher than the wage. All the government programs and burdens, including lawsuits, are part of the cost of labor. In effect, the business is paying much more for the employee's services than he receives in wages. The difference is being misdirected by the government to its own whims.
    If, as you suggest, the employer looks at the value of the labor as something other than market value, he must add up all that the labor costs, including the government burdens.

  26. #26

    Re: House GOP on health care: For repeal, not replace

    Quote Originally Posted by cm98059 View Post
    I didn't have health insurance, because it was not included as a benefit from my employer, so when I was diagnosed with Stage 4 Hodgkin's Lymphoma, I ended up at the state's premier Cancer Research Institute, because that is where my state's Medicaid program told me to go. I could pick up the binder that contains the copies of my medical bills and add them up and give you an exact total, but I do not feel like doing that right now. But each week, I received a bill for over 10,000 dollars for my chemotherapy treatment. This came up to roughly 240,000 dollars in Chemotherapy drugs for the course of my treatment. In Finland, each of those treatments would have cost 250 Euros or $329.82 US, or about $3,000.00 for a six month course of treatment. One of the biggest reasons for this is because other countries who have socialized medicine do not let the drug companies inflate their prices about 30 times. Also, countries with Socialized Medicine do no have several different prices for the same drug. In the U.S. the drug companies send representatives to doctors and insurance companies trying to sell their drug and offering deals to insurance companies to sell their drug. A few months ago, my health care quit paying for my cholesterol drug. My doctor actually called the insurance company to find out why they were denying the prescription, and they told him that basically, they had a deal with the company that sells one cholesterol drug, and they were getting this specific drug at a specific price, so thy were denying prescriptions for other cholesterol drugs. If you wanted the prescription covered prescribe the drug they wanted to sell.
    European counties and Canada have price controls on drugs, including drugs developed and produced in the US, which are often the most advanced available. Drug companies must charge enough to recoup their development and production costs, including the enormous cost of satisfying the bureaucrats. They sell into price controlled companies, because even selling at a lower price brings down the production cost by spreading it over a larger volume. But the result is that prices in America are higher because that is the only way they can recoup their costs and make a profit. Yes, liberals hate profits, but there must be some incentive to research and develop, and new developments are made from profits on past sales. Herehttp://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2000/05/why_do_drugs_cost_less_in_canada.html is a link which explains why Canadian prices are lower. How successful would those socialized medicine schemes be if Americans did not subsidize new drugs for such countries?
    Even in other countries with price controls, research and development is done with the expectation of selling into the US without price controls.
    One of the big dangers of Obamacare is that its price controls will stifle research, not only here but in other countries relying on US sales to recoup their expenses.
    Remember, without drug company prices, those drugs could not exist.

    Source Link: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...in_canada.html
    Last edited by opinterph; July 23rd, 2013 at 09:06 PM. Reason: added functional source link to referenced article

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    Re: House GOP on health care: For repeal, not replace

    An analysis by London-based GlobalData suggests the Affordable Care Act will generate billions in new profits for the pharmaceutical industry.


  28. #28

    Re: House GOP on health care: For repeal, not replace

    Perhaps, but here is a discussion of the effect on future development:
    "It's not even 2014 yet, and President Obama is now saying that he needs "only" another $150 billion from Big Pharma in Obamacare drug price controls and cost cuts. As the president looks for politically painless ways to cut federal health-care costs, the fat goose of drug company profits is just too tempting.

    Big Pharma argues that drug price controls will kill the goose that lays the golden molecules. Without the ability to charge market prices, they say they will be forced to severely cut future R&D spending and we'll all suffer needlessly from diseases that could have been cured or managed because the next generation of drug innovations will never come to market.

    They may be right about that. Two decades ago Europe used to invent twice as many new drugs as the U.S. but as European countries moved to drug price controls to cut national health-care budgets, the U.S. has outpaced Europe by more than two-to-one in new drug inventions. The largest share of biomedical patents are awarded to U.S. inventors."

    http://www.ocregister.com/articles/d...ig-pharma.html
    Last edited by Benvolio; July 23rd, 2013 at 05:08 AM.

  29. #29

    Re: House GOP on health care: For repeal, not replace

    The article in my last post overlooks that when European companies spend to develop, they are hoping to sell into the vast US market without price controls. Now, they will predictably spend even less than they have been. Obamacare impacts not only US development, but that in other countries as well.

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    Re: House GOP on health care: For repeal, not replace

    Quote Originally Posted by frankfrank View Post
    BASELESS? the entire PLANET knows that the United States has by far the most unaffordable health care system of any country in all of human history. .
    The post in question was about results and you go off on a major tangent about affordability. I know it's difficult, but do try to focus on the topic at hand.

  31. #31
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    Re: House GOP on health care: For repeal, not replace

    Quote Originally Posted by Orlandude View Post
    That's a lie. Over 20 states (all republican red states) have opted out of expanding Medicaid to the uninsured, keeping in lockstep with their toxic ideology. Look up some facts. That means that all the people in those states who do not or cannot buy insurance will remain uninsured with no option except emergency room care, the most expensive care there is, that taxpayers in those red states will continue to pay.

    How many jobs bills have you republicans obstructed? So stop lecturing about reducing poverty until you produce the millions of jobs you promised as a result of the Bush tax cuts.
    I believe you are totally correct in this. Texas is this way, I believe, but if it weren't for my VA medical, I don't need medicare or Medicaid. I am using medicare as it takes part of the burden off of the VA.
    BEWARE! Harassing the Indian may result in sudden and severe hair loss.

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    Re: House GOP on health care: For repeal, not replace

    Quote Originally Posted by frankfrank View Post
    BASELESS? the entire PLANET knows that the United States has by far the most unaffordable health care system of any country in all of human history. Somebody needs to exist their entire life in a cave, or perhaps be part of the cannibal tree-people tribe on New Guinea far removed from modern civilization, or be entirely and absolutely brainwashed by the teabaggers, to not know this or think it's a lie. There are many thousands of comparisons, and they all point the same way, but your Fox News, Rush, etc. will always sweep it under the magic carpet. Google is your friend.

    http://www.hcmarketplace.com/prod-11...wS2&spJobID=71



    http://onpoint.wbur.org/2012/08/01/f...caid-expansion

    HUMAN SURVIVAL is impossible on $2,256 per year in the United States, unless you're living as one of 17 people jammed into a one-bedroom apartment. I am in touch with somebody in Florida who has been homeless for years (he uses library computers), and he puts together a financial report monthly detailing his income and expenditures TO THE PENNY, and he receives well more than $2,256 per year - yet, having reliable shelter is entirely impossible. What saves him is that he speaks well - well enough that he is able to get flown to occasional LGBT organization events to give speeches or do some coordination.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datab...of-world-obama

    Read the chart and weep. Of the nations compared, the United States has one of the lowest life expectancies, and healthcare costs far more per capita than in any other country listed.

    Listed are the G8 countries, plus China and Cuba.
    I have been trying to find an apartment either here in CC or San Antonio. My income is not large enough to get an apartment in either city. Lord knows that I would be screwed if I had to rely on the insurance companies. All of my preexisting conditions would keep me from getting help. Thank God I have the VA Medical ins.
    BEWARE! Harassing the Indian may result in sudden and severe hair loss.

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    Re: House GOP on health care: For repeal, not replace

    Once again the party of no solutions. That is what they will find people have faith in them to accomplish. Hopefully they will find that again at the ballot box. I sincerely hope that current events electrifies the voting electorate and we have a huge turnout. Based on the republican approval rating, they will be destroyed once again.
    Last edited by JayHawk; July 23rd, 2013 at 07:52 AM.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
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    Re: House GOP on health care: For repeal, not replace

    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post
    An analysis by London-based GlobalData suggests the Affordable Care Act will generate billions in new profits for the pharmaceutical industry.

    It is simple common sense. The more people who have access to care and meds, the more people will use care and meds.

    I don't understand why something so simple escapes the Benvolios of this world.

  35. #35

    Re: House GOP on health care: For repeal, not replace

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    It is simple common sense. The more people who have access to care and meds, the more people will use care and meds.

    I don't understand why something so simple escapes the Benvolios of this world.
    Look at my quote at 7:01 below. Obama is already looking to knock another 150 billion off drug company profits. Once the bureaucrats and politicians get control, is is inevitable that they will trim profits.

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    Re: House GOP on health care: For repeal, not replace

    Quote Originally Posted by cm98059 View Post
    I didn't have health insurance, because it was not included as a benefit from my employer, so when I was diagnosed with Stage 4 Hodgkin's Lymphoma, I ended up at the state's premier Cancer Research Institute, because that is where my state's Medicaid program told me to go. I could pick up the binder that contains the copies of my medical bills and add them up and give you an exact total, but I do not feel like doing that right now. But each week, I received a bill for over 10,000 dollars for my chemotherapy treatment. This came up to roughly 240,000 dollars in Chemotherapy drugs for the course of my treatment. In Finland, each of those treatments would have cost 250 Euros or $329.82 US, or about $3,000.00 for a six month course of treatment. One of the biggest reasons for this is because other countries who have socialized medicine do not let the drug companies inflate their prices about 30 times. Also, countries with Socialized Medicine do no have several different prices for the same drug. In the U.S. the drug companies send representatives to doctors and insurance companies trying to sell their drug and offering deals to insurance companies to sell their drug. A few months ago, my health care quit paying for my cholesterol drug. My doctor actually called the insurance company to find out why they were denying the prescription, and they told him that basically, they had a deal with the company that sells one cholesterol drug, and they were getting this specific drug at a specific price, so thy were denying prescriptions for other cholesterol drugs. If you wanted the prescription covered prescribe the drug they wanted to sell.
    And meanwhile, new government regulations are making it harder for my mom to get good care for her diabetes: she has to use a specified supplier, and the supplier isn't allowed to give personal attention -- everything has to be done by mail, and the supplies are substandard to what she used to be able to get.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: House GOP on health care: For repeal, not replace

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    The value of labor is determined by the market, i.e. what people are willing to pay for it. An excess of labor results in low wages. A shortage of workers results in higher wages. Skilled labor is harder to find and wages are higher.
    But remember, the labor cost to the employer in the US is much, much higher than the wage. All the government programs and burdens, including lawsuits, are part of the cost of labor. In effect, the business is paying much more for the employee's services than he receives in wages. The difference is being misdirected by the government to its own whims.
    If, as you suggest, the employer looks at the value of the labor as something other than market value, he must add up all that the labor costs, including the government burdens.
    No, it isn't, because we don't have a free market -- we have one distorted by the presence of giant corporations which are the flip side of entrenched, corrupt unions.

    That CEOs can be paid ten or more times what their peers in other countries are, that the uber-wealthy can rake off unearned income in record amounts, indicates that the wages are not what they should be. The value of labor is what makes raw materials into products, and that labor should be paid its value.

    If employers paid what the labor they use is actually worth, most of those government programs wouldn't cost a thing, because no one would need them.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: House GOP on health care: For repeal, not replace

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    The post in question was about results and you go off on a major tangent about affordability. I know it's difficult, but do try to focus on the topic at hand.
    If it isn't affordable, the results are not good. Any report on results has to include the results for those who couldn't even use the system, and thus suffered without professional care.

    Ergo, it's not a tangent.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: House GOP on health care: For repeal, not replace

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Perhaps, but here is a discussion of the effect on future development:
    "It's not even 2014 yet, and President Obama is now saying that he needs "only" another $150 billion from Big Pharma in Obamacare drug price controls and cost cuts. As the president looks for politically painless ways to cut federal health-care costs, the fat goose of drug company profits is just too tempting.

    Big Pharma argues that drug price controls will kill the goose that lays the golden molecules. Without the ability to charge market prices, they say they will be forced to severely cut future R&D spending and we'll all suffer needlessly from diseases that could have been cured or managed because the next generation of drug innovations will never come to market.

    They may be right about that. Two decades ago Europe used to invent twice as many new drugs as the U.S. but as European countries moved to drug price controls to cut national health-care budgets, the U.S. has outpaced Europe by more than two-to-one in new drug inventions. The largest share of biomedical patents are awarded to U.S. inventors."

    http://www.ocregister.com/articles/d...ig-pharma.html
    They probably are right about that. But, along with government, they have become part of the problem. As the article says, we need new thinking:

    Another idea would use crowd-source funding like Kickstarter to match consumers and patients through the internet with promising academic and private biomedical research programs. These would include charitable programs like the Bill Gates malaria vaccine project or for-profit drug development efforts. Potential drug investment projects could be independently rated by neutral and highly-regarded organizations like Consumer Reports, the Cochrane Collaboration or the Oregon Drug Effectiveness Research Program.

    If we want to keep generating new innovative drugs in a cost-constrained environment, unlike Big Pharma, we need to start thinking outside of the box.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: House GOP on health care: For repeal, not replace

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    If it isn't affordable, the results are not good. Any report on results has to include the results for those who couldn't even use the system, and thus suffered without professional care.

    Ergo, it's not a tangent.
    Wrong, yet again. The post he responded to with all that useless verbiage was about results. Period.

    If it's so-called affordability that interests you, perhaps if we could get the government uninvolved, healthcare would become more affordable. As it is, it isn't bad. The group practice my doctor is a part of has their fees posted on the wall for all to see, and they are quite reasonable. For that matter, there are always places that serve the medically indigent. The system is far from broken.

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    Re: House GOP on health care: For repeal, not replace

    Wait, you are kidding, right? Results are completely irrelevant if healthcare is not affordable for the majority of Americans. It's like saying an African dictatorship has the best standard of living in the world because the despot lives in a fabulous castle with slaves and has his every whim catered to.

    And yeah, let's get government out of it. Because it's always LACK of regulation that makes things cheaper and more affordable for the average Joe. Just ask the 1930s...
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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    Re: House GOP on health care: For repeal, not replace

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    Wrong, yet again. The post he responded to with all that useless verbiage was about results. Period.

    If it's so-called affordability that interests you, perhaps if we could get the government uninvolved, healthcare would become more affordable. As it is, it isn't bad. The group practice my doctor is a part of has their fees posted on the wall for all to see, and they are quite reasonable. For that matter, there are always places that serve the medically indigent. The system is far from broken.
    Affordability IS a result.

    When I was teaching, I didn't have the option of rating how well I did just on the students who bothered to do the assignment, I had to count everyone in my results. If you're grading a system for a country, you have to do the same thing: you have to count the outcome for everyone.

    So for those who can't afford medical care, the system has to record a big fat zero for results.


    BTW, the government isn't the biggest problem in medical care, the AMA is -- they're a guild restricting the number of doctors so they can keep their fees high and services limited.

    And the system is only not broken if you consider a car with one tire flat and the opposite wheel missing completely "drivable".

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: House GOP on health care: For repeal, not replace

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Affordability IS a result.

    When I was teaching, I didn't have the option of rating how well I did just on the students who bothered to do the assignment, I had to count everyone in my results. If you're grading a system for a country, you have to do the same thing: you have to count the outcome for everyone.

    So for those who can't afford medical care, the system has to record a big fat zero for results.


    BTW, the government isn't the biggest problem in medical care, the AMA is -- they're a guild restricting the number of doctors so they can keep their fees high and services limited.

    And the system is only not broken if you consider a car with one tire flat and the opposite wheel missing completely "drivable".
    You're trying much too hard to defend an indefensible position.

    The system is just fine. A bit fucked up due to government meddling, but just fine--for now.

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    Re: House GOP on health care: For repeal, not replace

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Wait, you are kidding, right? Results are completely irrelevant if healthcare is not affordable for the majority of Americans. It's like saying an African dictatorship has the best standard of living in the world because the despot lives in a fabulous castle with slaves and has his every whim catered to.

    And yeah, let's get government out of it. Because it's always LACK of regulation that makes things cheaper and more affordable for the average Joe. Just ask the 1930s...
    A majority of Americans are happy with their healthcare already.


    http://www.gallup.com/poll/159455/am...-slightly.aspx

  45. #45

    Re: House GOP on health care: For repeal, not replace

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Affordability IS a result.

    When I was teaching, I didn't have the option of rating how well I did just on the students who bothered to do the assignment, I had to count everyone in my results. If you're grading a system for a country, you have to do the same thing: you have to count the outcome for everyone.

    So for those who can't afford medical care, the system has to record a big fat zero for results.


    BTW, the government isn't the biggest problem in medical care, the AMA is -- they're a guild restricting the number of doctors so they can keep their fees high and services limited.

    And the system is only not broken if you consider a car with one tire flat and the opposite wheel missing completely "drivable".
    That is a prescription for communism, isn't it? The system is no good unless everyone is held down to a poition of equality.
    Last edited by Benvolio; July 23rd, 2013 at 01:25 PM.

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    Re: House GOP on health care: For repeal, not replace

    Oh don't be ridiculous. You make yourself seem like an uneducated fool when you prattle like this.

    See how the US fares against the 'socialist' countries you seem to fear the most when it comes to health and education.

    Seriously.

    You don't even understand communism...what gives you the right to even discuss it?

  47. #47

    Re: House GOP on health care: For repeal, not replace

    You obviously did not read Kulindhar's post to which I was responding.

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    Re: House GOP on health care: For repeal, not replace

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    You're trying much too hard to defend an indefensible position.

    The system is just fine. A bit fucked up due to government meddling, but just fine--for now.
    Say that in an actual room full of people, and you'd be laughed out of it. People travel to Eastern Europe from the US for dental work, because it is cheaper to buy the plane ticket and do it there (with exactly the same quality of work btw) than pay here. And this is only one example.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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    Re: House GOP on health care: For repeal, not replace

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    You obviously did not read Kulindhar's post to which I was responding.
    He did. You apparently didn't get it, even though you reading. This is not about lowering quality so everyone can afford it. It's about making it cheap enough without lowering the quality. Which - refer to Canada. They're healthier and happier than you. While you cringe in your ignorant fear of "communism", they are treating their citizens with dignity and care that the Republican party wouldn't even be able to compute...
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

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    Re: House GOP on health care: For repeal, not replace

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    You're trying much too hard to defend an indefensible position.

    The system is just fine. A bit fucked up due to government meddling, but just fine--for now.
    How can you call a system that a huge portion of the country can't afford to use "just fine"?

    Often I can't afford to use the system, and I have insurance!

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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