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View Poll Results: If you're gay, would you date a bisexual?

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  • Yes

    73 71.57%
  • No

    22 21.57%
  • I don't know

    7 6.86%
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  1. #301
    JUB Addict Anders123's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    I've been restrained following the posting rules and very polite compared to the daily assaults on me by those assuming they represent perfection...in human behaviour.

    Your focus is rather one way orientated....the OCD brigade are very evident here.
    This is a misuse of OCD. It is not a acronym to be used interchangeably with fastidious or focused, but (to oversimplify it) a debilitating anxiety disorder characterised by unwanted but insistent behavioural compulsions. It is irrelevant to this discussion as it describes absolutely none of the members posting in it. Stop with this.

    You're not discrediting your opposition by declaring that they have disorders or presuming they live unfulfilled lives. It's simply the result of you deflecting with personal attacks and serves only to make your actual position appear indefensible. Passive-aggression is not politeness, not even in contrast to other attitudes in this thread. So if you're feeling assaulted, report the offending posts and address the more valid arguments directly, don't attempt to dismiss them with impertinent conjecture.

  2. #302
    The old familiar sting blackbeltninja's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    I've been restrained following the posting rules and very polite compared to the daily assaults on me by those assuming they represent perfection...in human behaviour.
    Hang on. No one here is claiming to be perfect.

    We are, however, accusing you of all sorts of insidious and abhorrent behaviour.

    -d-
    Members: [insert appropriate/relevant wise saying or deep thought here]
    Thank you.


    I hope you get this message.
    Comments welcome.

  3. #303
    The nice guy from Nice. dpnice's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    [QUOTE=mikey3000;9007265]........... You should fear being found out, cause she will destroy you both when she does. .................[QUOTE]

    I am sorry but where did this idea come from? Is it factual evidence to support our judgements or just an idea that came to you on the spur of the moment? A thought that you hope would become a reality should the wife discover their relationship?

    As previously stated there is no guarantee that she will ever find out and thus using such arguments is moot.

    If we are going to judge his behaviour (I for one don't condone it) let's do it with some logic rather than suppositions gleaned whilst sitting in front of our computers.
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  4. #304
    The nice guy from Nice. dpnice's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Anybody out there still willing to date a bisexual?

    Which was the subject in the beginning.

    This must be the most "derailed" thread in JUB history.
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  5. #305
    Look, listen and rejoice oakpope's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Oh how I hate that question. It's so insulting. I don't think of a rational reason why anyone should judge all bisexual as dating material. The question itself implies that bisexuality is an obstacle to dating, something to overcome.

    If I were a bisexual man, i would be so insulted by this entire post. I apologize to our friends here
    Threads like this shouldn't exist.

    As for Kalli, we're entering troll territory, I don't think there is much more to say to him, we won't persuade him his lover is doing something wrong.
    Magna Veritas


  6. #306
    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dejavudoo View Post
    I'm not qualified to recognize delusional, but it is a convenient artifice to have a ready dismissal of all opposing ideas, using psychological disorders as rocks to hurl.

    However, the empirical record is certainly there to suggest that Greece is hardly an open society when it comes to gay equality. The evidence implies that it has been pushed underground for some time, and that the tryst in question could likely be the result of societal pressures, and from a society far from the shores that Puritans either fled or settled.
    More to the issue under review on this thread it could be said that self righteous indignation often expressed here is evidence of a obsessive, compulsive need on the part of a few to impose their morality on others....very typical behaviour amongst the holier than thou religious fanatics whom we gays are familiar with when they inflict their painful judgements upon us for being who we are.

    The penny might well drop....

  7. #307
    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by dpnice View Post
    Anybody out there still willing to date a bisexual?

    Which was the subject in the beginning.

    This must be the most "derailed" thread in JUB history.
    Back to the question:

    I would date a bisexual and do, for the rewards fulfil me sufficiently to want more of the same joy.
    Last edited by kallipolis; July 24th, 2013 at 06:21 AM.

  8. #308
    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by blackbeltninja View Post
    Hang on. No one here is claiming to be perfect.

    We are, however, accusing you of all sorts of insidious and abhorrent behaviour.

    -d-
    Who exactly are you to sit in judgement upon others? Mr. Perfection?

    Are you the paragon of all virtuous behaviour able as a result of your perfect life to judge the rest of the human race even acting out the role of a religious fanatic when they assume that they are self entitled to judge others.....we gays are use to being on the receiving end of judgemental condemnations from religious fanatics..doesn't the hypocrisy bother you?..
    Last edited by kallipolis; July 24th, 2013 at 06:26 AM.

  9. #309

    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by dpnice View Post
    Anybody out there still willing to date a bisexual?

    Which was the subject in the beginning.

    This must be the most "derailed" thread in JUB history.
    There is no such thing as 'a bisexual'.

    Seriously, though, there are different degrees of attraction/orientation to be considered - which way one is more inclined to lean.

    Age and experience, also, might be considered - history. We often hear older straight guys talk about the 'first' wife, 'second' wife, etc. Why should we expect gay/bi men to get it right the first time out?

    And, of course, what I posted in post # 242.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kahaih View Post
    That, I suppose, depends on how 'out' he is, and/or how easily influenced he is by his friends, family, church, or any other people in his life.

    Surely most parents want the most 'normal' (safest - easiest?) life possible for their kids, and would be inclined to nudge a bisexual son in that (straight) direction.
    When we date and mate, straight or gay, we're not getting involved with just one person. We need to know if there are going to be battles, and if they are worth fighting.


    This question can't be sufficiently answered with a simple 'yes' or 'no'.

  10. #310

    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    Who exactly are you to sit in judgement upon others? Mr. Perfection?

    Are you the paragon of all virtuous behaviour able as a result of your perfect life to judge the rest of the human race even acting out the role of a religious fanatic when they assume that they are self entitled to judge others.....we gays are use to being on the receiving end of judgemental condemnations from religious fanatics..doesn't the hypocrisy bother you?..

    YOU STARTED IT!

    Really, you judged your situation and deemed it worthy of presenting as 'the right way' when you offered your assessment on page one.

    What followed was an appeal to overturn your judgment.
    Last edited by Kahaih; July 24th, 2013 at 06:37 AM.

  11. #311
    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kahaih View Post
    YOU STARTED IT!

    Really, you judged your situation and deemed it worthy of presenting as 'the right way' when you offered your assessment on page one.

    What followed was an appeal to overturn your judgment.
    You are dreadfully mistaken....I merely posted on my relationship with my partner....then the judgements began...including yours...my right to reply...with a will to balance the equation.

    Please read the thread before passing judgements that represents a misreading of the thread....thank you.

  12. #312

    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    You are dreadfully mistaken....I merely posted on my relationship with my partner....then the judgements began...including yours...my right to reply...with a will to balance the equation.

    Please read the thread before passing judgements that represents a misreading of the thread....thank you.
    No. I am not.

  13. #313
    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kahaih View Post
    No. I am not.
    Don't worry there is no punishment for reading into my post your prejudices.

  14. #314
    Ruminating
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    [QUOTE=dpnice;9008150][QUOTE=mikey3000;9007265]........... You should fear being found out, cause she will destroy you both when she does. .................

    I am sorry but where did this idea come from? Is it factual evidence to support our judgements or just an idea that came to you on the spur of the moment? A thought that you hope would become a reality should the wife discover their relationship?
    Are we not being asked to believe, as factual, that the wife is happy in her ignorance? We don't know that, we are just expected to believe it. For all this talk about us being judgmental, aren't two people making a judgment about the marital happiness of another person?

    Also, this thread is a perfect one to be derailed. The topic was always destined to be a shit storm, this one just did it with a twist.
    Everyone wants to be heard. No one wants to listen.

  15. #315
    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    [QUOTE=sixthson;9008264][QUOTE=dpnice;9008150]
    Quote Originally Posted by mikey3000 View Post
    ........... You should fear being found out, cause she will destroy you both when she does. .................

    Are we not being asked to believe, as factual, that the wife is happy in her ignorance? We don't know that, we are just expected to believe it. For all this talk about us being judgmental, aren't two people making a judgment about the marital happiness of another person?

    Also, this thread is a perfect one to be derailed. The topic was always destined to be a shit storm, this one just did it with a twist.
    You're entitled to speculate all you wish ....therein lies the weakness of your speculation for you will never know what the wife thinks....but speculating what she thinks helps pass the time....

    Whereas, three happy people is a living reality..high lighting a truth rather than making a judgement...for I know the wife on personal terms..she's a very good cook...her home made dolmades are scrumptious...and her salads are a joy to eat...especially today, that it is 35 c.here...I'll have to wait until Sunday for my next visit to enjoy her home cooking.

  16. #316

    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    Don't worry there is no punishment for reading into my post your prejudices.
    Your childish behavior in this thread might indicate developmental problems.

    Your use (introduction) of 'pop-psychology' in this thread grants us the privilege of diagnosing you with 'Peter Pan Syndrome'.

  17. #317
    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kahaih View Post
    Your childish behavior in this thread might indicate developmental problems.

    Your use (introduction) of 'pop-psychology' in this thread grants us the privilege of diagnosing you with 'Peter Pan Syndrome'.
    Look....more judgements.....the handbags are flying today.

  18. #318
    Porn Star aaggii's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kahaih View Post
    There is no such thing as 'a bisexual'.
    How do you feel when someone says there´s no such thing as being gay, just confused people who need God in their lives? Open a book. Or see a documentary if it´s easier.
    ¨Beware the fury of a patient man¨ - John Dryden

  19. #319
    Porn Star aaggii's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    Who exactly are you to sit in judgement upon others? Mr. Perfection?

    Just people who respect other people. Like the wife. Not the cheaters.
    ¨Beware the fury of a patient man¨ - John Dryden

  20. #320
    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by aaggii View Post
    Just people who respect other people. Like the wife. Not the cheaters.
    ..and you are self elected...to represent the perfectly, perfect.....to sit in judgement on others?

  21. #321
    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    I must disappoint my fan base for I'm shortly leaving to take a ferry boat to my home island, Rhodes for a short break having worked too many night shifts this week....a big thank from me...for the exchanges....always rewarding and informative...back again next week.

  22. #322
    Porn Star aaggii's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    ..and you are self elected...to represent the perfectly, perfect.....to sit in judgement on others?
    You can leave the stupid comments for yourself. I never claimed to be perfect, but I´m sure as hell not a cheater.
    ¨Beware the fury of a patient man¨ - John Dryden

  23. #323
    The nice guy from Nice. dpnice's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    [QUOTE=sixthson;9008264][QUOTE=dpnice;9008150]
    Quote Originally Posted by mikey3000 View Post
    ........... Are we not being asked to believe, as factual, that the wife is happy in her ignorance? We don't know that, we are just expected to believe it. For all this talk about us being judgmental, aren't two people making a judgment about the marital happiness of another person?

    . .
    According to the information we have been given the wife is happy in her ignorance; so I don't think we can do anything but accept this fact. Nonetheless even accepting her ignorance doesn't mean we have to condone the relationship. They are not judging her marital happiness they are abusing her confidence in that she ignores the existence of their relationship.

    "For all this talk about us being judgemental......" I hope that I have made it clear that I am totally in agreement with the judgements so eloquently formulated in this thread.

    I am not in agreement with and can't accept the facetious comments which seem to have been plucked out of the air by those sitting in front of their computer thinking "oh that sounds good" before they click on the "reply" button.

    If we are going to be judgemental, which we have the right to be, let's at least judge him based on something sensible and universally accepted such as "adultery is morally wrong".
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  24. #324

    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by aaggii View Post
    How do you feel when someone says there´s no such thing as being gay, just confused people who need God in their lives? Open a book. Or see a documentary if it´s easier.
    Sorry. The line "There is no such thing as a bisexual" has become a bit of an old joke on this site.

    It might be a bit of an 'inside joke', so I probably shouldn't have used it as doing so is not being very inclusive (to newbies), is it?

    Still, "a bisexual" isn't very inclusive, either, as it infers that there is only bisexuality in one form, on degree, or that one can only be '50/50'.

    As I went on to say in that post, there are various degrees of bisexuality.

  25. #325
    Porn Star aaggii's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Mea culpa, I didn´t know that. You should have put a smiley after that. I jumped too fast and hard on you, also. I know it´s not an excuse, but I´m sickly tired of ¨BI doesn´t exist, it´s this or that¨. Sorry!

    Agree 200% about the last part of your message!
    ¨Beware the fury of a patient man¨ - John Dryden

  26. #326
    Look, listen and rejoice oakpope's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    .for I know the wife on personal terms..she's a very good cook...her home made dolmades are scrumptious...and her salads are a joy to eat...especially today, that it is 35 c.here...I'll have to wait until Sunday for my next visit to enjoy her home cooking.
    And you can look her in the eyes while enjoying her food ? I would be too ashamed to even dare enter her home.
    Magna Veritas


  27. #327
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    More to the issue under review on this thread it could be said that self righteous indignation often expressed here is evidence of a obsessive, compulsive need on the part of a few to impose their morality on others....very typical behaviour amongst the holier than thou religious fanatics whom we gays are familiar with when they inflict their painful judgements upon us for being who we are.

    The penny might well drop....
    To postulate a system of morality is to describe a way of relating to other people. It is thus by its relational nature a shared thing. There isn't a morality for me and a morality for you and a morality for another; it is a collective project on which we may try to achieve consensus. There is no prospect of duping a woman about her husband's sexual orientation and infidelity ever forming the basis of a consensus about a collective sense of morality.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  28. #328
    Lions&Tigers&Bears Oh My!
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    There is no prospect of duping a woman about her husband's sexual orientation and infidelity ever forming the basis of a consensus about a collective sense of morality.
    It may not be a consensus but a lot of people believe that what two or more consenting adults do is none of their business and have no judgement at all on the subject if those conditions are met. It isn't a question of morality for me and if it was I would question the morality of the people who think it is any of their business what two or more consenting adults do....not the morality of the consenting adults.

  29. #329
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    [QUOTE=dpnice;9008427][QUOTE=sixthson;9008264]
    Quote Originally Posted by dpnice View Post

    According to the information we have been given the wife is happy in her ignorance; so I don't think we can do anything but accept this fact. Nonetheless even accepting her ignorance doesn't mean we have to condone the relationship. They are not judging her marital happiness they are abusing her confidence in that she ignores the existence of their relationship.

    "For all this talk about us being judgemental......" I hope that I have made it clear that I am totally in agreement with the judgements so eloquently formulated in this thread.

    I am not in agreement with and can't accept the facetious comments which seem to have been plucked out of the air by those sitting in front of their computer thinking "oh that sounds good" before they click on the "reply" button.

    If we are going to be judgemental, which we have the right to be, let's at least judge him based on something sensible and universally accepted such as "adultery is morally wrong".
    A person is by definition happy when others conspire to prevent their knowledge of an ugly abuse that would reveal the happiness to be an illusion.

    But true happiness is sustained in the face of whatever piece of knowledge comes our way. Happy memories endure through any hardship. To fabricate and impose an illusion of happiness is to deprive another with a junk-bond ersatz memory of happy time that can only crumble.

    Our "informed learner" from these exchanges concedes all this.
    Instead of rebutting a word of it we see a series of non-sequiturs and dodges:

    • Yes, but nobody is perfect.
    • Yes, but atheists ought not to remind Christians of what is ostensibly Christian morality.
    • Yes, but those dangers may never come to pass

    I have learned something from these exchanges; it is how much more respect I have for bisexual men who are forthright in sharing the whole of their erotic being with someone, or indeed with more than one person, instead of cheating their partners out of a little knowledge and a lot of happiness.
    Last edited by bankside; July 24th, 2013 at 11:17 AM.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  30. #330
    The old familiar sting blackbeltninja's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    Who exactly are you to sit in judgement upon others? Mr. Perfection?
    Nope. I include myself in what I said above, quoted below in orange, which you either missed or deliberately chose to ignore.

    Quote Originally Posted by blackbeltninja View Post
    Hang on. No one here is claiming to be perfect.

    We are, however, accusing you of all sorts of insidious and abhorrent behaviour.

    -d-
    Are you the paragon of all virtuous behaviour able as a result of your perfect life to judge the rest of the human race even acting out the role of a religious fanatic when they assume that they are self entitled to judge others.....we gays are use to being on the receiving end of judgemental condemnations from religious fanatics..doesn't the hypocrisy bother you?..[/QUOTE]

    I'm a bi guy who has been both the collective and an individual target of many anti-bi sentiments in here, the hypocrisy of which has been lost on the protagonists even after it has been pointed out. I'll leave that part of it here as food for thought.

    Your partner, if he undertook the traditional vows - I asked; you neglected to answer - promised, and legally obligated himself in terms of the contract of marriage, to forsake all others when he married. This makes him a liar and a cheat; you enable his behaviour for your own selfish gain. Pointing that out does makes me neither a hypocrite, nor a religious fanatic.

    Dress it up however you like; those are the facts.

    -d-
    Last edited by blackbeltninja; July 24th, 2013 at 01:39 PM.
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  31. #331
    A Total Bottom mbamike's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by eastofeden View Post
    it may not be a consensus but a lot of people believe that what two or more consenting adults do is none of their business and have no judgement at all on the subject if those conditions are met. It isn't a question of morality for me and if it was i would question the morality of the people who think it is any of their business what two or more consenting adults do....not the morality of the consenting adults.
    THANK YOU!

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  32. #332
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    When I was just coming out and in my slut phase, I went out with several bisexual men. Seemed like a lot of them were in denial or cheating on girlfriends far too often; they also seemed to all be exclusive bottoms (which I found hard to believe given they had children). I probably wouldn't date a bisexual guy just for the confusion it added (like remarking on girls and men all the time).

    With that said, our daughter came out to us at Christmas and has said she is likely bisexual (from just lesbian). She's been with a man, woman, and now back to the man. Seems like it would be confusing! lol! She hasn't bought the Subaru (but has the dog) so I guess it may be true! lol!

  33. #333
    JUB Addict mikey3000's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    [QUOTE=kallipolis;9008274][QUOTE=sixthson;9008264]
    Quote Originally Posted by dpnice View Post

    You're entitled to speculate all you wish ....therein lies the weakness of your speculation for you will never know what the wife thinks....but speculating what she thinks helps pass the time....

    Whereas, three happy people is a living reality..high lighting a truth rather than making a judgement...for I know the wife on personal terms..she's a very good cook...her home made dolmades are scrumptious...and her salads are a joy to eat...especially today, that it is 35 c.here...I'll have to wait until Sunday for my next visit to enjoy her home cooking.
    Ahhh. Ok. Got it. You really don't care what the little wifey thinks, as long as she keeps rattling those pots and pans in the kitchen to feed the men folk. Crystal...

    I keep forgetting that not everyone on here holds dear the same values that we do here in the west.
    Inspired - but too tired.

  34. #334

    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Just to make it clear to the readers, the quote in the above post #333 were not the words of dpnice, but those of kallipolis from post #315.

    Some sort of paste/crop/post glitch, I suspect.

  35. #335
    JUB Addict mikey3000's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Oh yeah, Post 315 also credits me for the entire quote whereas only the first line of the quote is actually mine. Weird...
    Inspired - but too tired.

  36. #336
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    I don't think I would want to date a bisexual guy. Because based on my observations, bisexual people always tend to end up with the opposite gender.


    I just don't want to be dumped by a guy for a girl instead.

  37. #337
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by travis82 View Post
    I just don't want to be dumped by a guy for a girl instead.
    Are you for real? First of all, what does it matter you got dumped for a boy or a girl? The important and sad thing is that you got dumped (which I hope it´ll never happen in your life, I´m serious). It sounds so sexist, really.

    After the first pages of general acceptance, the latest post sent me back to the JUB from a few years ago when in every topic about bisexuality, bisexuals ended up being (in the eyes of the ones who posted here) nothing but cheaters, unfaithfuls, confused sad homosexuals.

    Not dating someone because history threw you in the wrong hands? I had my fair shair of bad experiences with gays, should I judge anyone based on that? I had them with girls too but I´ve have never stereotyped them.
    ¨Beware the fury of a patient man¨ - John Dryden

  38. #338
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Wow, 7 pages in 4 days? That's pretty impressive.
    I hope that when the world comes to an end, I can breathe a sigh of relief, because there will be so much to look forward to.

  39. #339
    Dimples glasvegas's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Yes. I would. Derek, ya hear me?

  40. #340
    Elderhostile Gay Dejavudoo's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    There is no prospect of duping a woman about her husband's sexual orientation and infidelity ever forming the basis of a consensus about a collective sense of morality.
    ^This.

    Quote Originally Posted by eastofeden View Post
    It may not be a consensus but a lot of people believe that what two or more consenting adults do is none of their business and have no judgement at all on the subject if those conditions are met.
    In my experience, this is an abstracted value that tends to disintegrate whenever one is the personal friend of someone who has been deceived. The philosophy that begins as libertarian ends in subjective condemnation of the liar/deceiver.

    The popularity of the sanction of anything "between consenting adults" is invoked in matters of law. The phrase has real meaning when decriminalizing adultery, sodomy, fetishism, etc. When one uses it to argue that a society should HAVE no morality, it's a different thing entirely.

    For example, the vast majority of JUB members would argue that it is immoral to have sex with an animal, whether bestiality is a crime on the books or not, whether the animal in question was "consenting" or not. There it is: morality certainly exists on issues of sexuality (if not relationship) and it is a broad consensus, and on a subject where there is no "victim" per se.

    How much more so we can and SHOULD have convictions concerning the treatment of a partner in a relationship.

    Morality isn't the preserve of prudes or the religious or the conservatives. We all have morality, and it is commendable that men are willing to defend honesty in matters of love and family. It is intrinsically and empirically right to do so.
    There are TWO kinds of people in the world -- the kind who believe there are two kinds of people, and the kind who don't.

  41. #341

    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dejavudoo View Post
    In my experience, this is an abstracted value that tends to disintegrate whenever one is the personal friend of someone who has been deceived. The philosophy that begins as libertarian ends in subjective condemnation of the liar/deceiver.
    Oh, that is so not true in my world. Where does this come from with you?


    Quote Originally Posted by Dejavudoo View Post
    The popularity of the sanction of anything "between consenting adults" is invoked in matters of law.
    In this instance, that's all I'm interested in, love. Until it's on the book, the rest is all subjective.

  42. #342
    Elderhostile Gay Dejavudoo's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    It comes from personal experience, though not so much with gay men cheating. My progressive straight friends are all live-and-let-live until a personal acquaintance is wronged, and then they are highly offended by proxy.
    There are TWO kinds of people in the world -- the kind who believe there are two kinds of people, and the kind who don't.

  43. #343
    Lions&Tigers&Bears Oh My!
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    In my experience, this is an abstracted value that tends to disintegrate whenever one is the personal friend of someone who has been deceived. The philosophy that begins as libertarian ends in subjective condemnation of the liar/deceiver.
    In my experience...I believe that there are interpersonal dynamics at play in every relationship that we know nothing about and can never know anything about and I always reserve my judgement as I am well aware of that. I do not take sides...I know better. Instead...I encourage my friends to try to avoid living as a victim. I know there are two sides in every relationship and I can never know their "truth" as it isn't mine so grabbing the torch and pitchfork and joining the other townsfolk is just not my thing.

    For instance...a pathological manipulative person who has psychologically abused their husband or wife can come off smelling like a rose and if I HAD TO JUDGE I would find more fault in the abusive person than the one who sought to escape. Shame, guilt and fear are three very powerful tools and they are used in countless relationships to manipulate and control ....

    The popularity of the sanction of anything "between consenting adults" is invoked in matters of law. The phrase has real meaning when decriminalizing adultery, sodomy, fetishism, etc. When one uses it to argue that a society should HAVE no morality, it's a different thing entirely
    That is the argument often used against gay people...I think "consenting adults" is a perfect moral line in the sand.

    For example, the vast majority of JUB members would argue that it is immoral to have sex with an animal, whether bestiality is a crime on the books or not, whether the animal in question was "consenting" or not. There it is: morality certainly exists on issues of sexuality (if not relationship) and it is a broad consensus, and on a subject where there is no "victim" per se.
    Animals cannot consent.

    How much more so we can and SHOULD have convictions concerning the treatment of a partner in a relationship.
    Until you walk in their shoes...we can never know what kind of treatment happens in any relationship behind closed doors.

    Morality isn't the preserve of prudes or the religious or the conservatives. We all have morality, and it is commendable that men are willing to defend honesty in matters of love and family. It is intrinsically and empirically right to do so.
    Again...the anti gay crowd often uses this same argument. They are defending "morality"...theirs. I will instead defend the rights of consenting adults to the path they choose....my position reflects my own morality.

  44. #344

    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dejavudoo View Post
    My progressive straight friends are all live-and-let-live until a personal acquaintance is wronged, and then they are highly offended by proxy.
    Are you sure they're only ever offended by proxy? Remind me to never cross these "progressive straight friends" of yours.
    Last edited by Native Son; July 25th, 2013 at 04:11 AM.

  45. #345
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dejavudoo View Post
    It comes from personal experience, though not so much with gay men cheating. My progressive straight friends are all live-and-let-live until a personal acquaintance is wronged, and then they are highly offended by proxy.
    I am offended when people choose to live their lives as victims...I would encourage the person wronged in a relationship to figure out their part in it and process it.

    We live in a society with a victim mentality. I know because when my ex made a very public display of cheating (he fucked my co worker on the bar before I came to work in front of a crowd)...I had lots of well meaning folks rush to my side...I couldn't breathe. My ex knew exactly what he was doing. It wasn't about fucking my co worker...he wanted to control me as he had our entire relationship and since I had pretty much gotten past it and was about to leave him he wanted to break me. I instead told myself that I knew what a jerk he was and I didn't leave him because my insecurities at that time in my life owned me...and thanks to him I had to confront that and overcome my low self esteem. He didn't "cause" my low self esteem...I came that way...he was just attracted to it. Thanking him for what he did left me empowered and the people who rushed to my side and wanted me to be a victim...they did me no favors.

  46. #346
    You mad? 80KGold's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    If you are gay, would you date a bisexual?
    Sure, why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by eastofeden View Post
    He didn't "cause" my low self esteem...I came that way...he was just attracted to it.
    This is good insight. I like it.
    Last edited by 80KGold; July 25th, 2013 at 04:32 AM.

  47. #347
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by borg69unimatrix View Post
    I've had more than my share of insecurities, self doubts, jealousies, ... trying to control every outcome, and still been cheated on by multiples of boyfriends and girlfriends. Living in fear, doubts, and paranoia is no way to live. People cheat. You can't control them. All you can do is decide for yourself how You're going to deal with it when/if it happens.

    I've been through it enough times I know I'll live through it if it happens again.
    Aha! Finally I found this pearl of wisdom again! I read it the other day and wanted to comment but I don't type on my cell phone....

    I agree with you...been there and done that and the solution I came up with is that I decided instead of promising fidelity to my partner or having him promise fidelity to me...I instead promised honesty as I valued honesty and I know I can be honest and keep THAT promise.

    As for infidelity... I don't know what is going to happen along the way in my life and though I do not think I will be unfaithful...I know that something could happen and I cannot say with certainty that it won't. I can, however, say with complete certainty that I can be honest about it if it did. I value honesty a lot more than fidelity.

    Ironically...some of my critics...the ones who pointed fingers while expressing their own self defined purity and morality on the subject and had faux outrage about my decision went on to...GASP..."cheat". Hmmmmmmmm........

  48. #348
    Elderhostile Gay Dejavudoo's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Agreed on the martyr complexes, but there IS a different scenario at play when one discovers YEARS of one's marriage has been spent in a lie.

    The sense of betrayal is palpable, and IS a real wrong to do to anyone. They don't simply happen -- they are conscious choices.

    But that wasn't my point. It was that people espouse the libertine view when they don't really believe it.

    In your case, your friends' sympathies were "no favor" to you, but that is along a pretty narrow spectrum of what you faced. How would you have become if no friends had lent their support? Would it not also have shaped your views, and left you with even lower esteem, thinking everyone agreed you "deserved" it somehow? Or worse yet, leaving you thinking he was your only friend?

    Of course, I don't know friends who would have accepted anyone as crude as your former mate. I was forced to witness debasing public spectacles like your boyfriend's, but just not between gay men and not sex per se, and it was excruciating to be involuntarily dragged through the mud. To your point, I also saw people constantly cloak themselves with victimhood which led me to escape circumstance as soon as possible and leave home, shaping my destiny rather than being its flotsam.

    And, on your latter post, I can't ultimately see how honesty and fidelity are that separable when it comes to values. If one is going to be faithful to his partner, he is going to be honest with him, even if that means ending the relationship. Yes, I know that isn't the right application of fidelity in couples, but I think it has a ring of truth literally in that root word.
    Last edited by Dejavudoo; July 25th, 2013 at 05:54 AM.
    There are TWO kinds of people in the world -- the kind who believe there are two kinds of people, and the kind who don't.

  49. #349
    Elderhostile Gay Dejavudoo's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Native Son View Post
    Are you sure they're only ever offended by proxy? Remind me to never cross these "progressive straight friends" of yours.
    I'm not sure what you're arguing here. I never said they were ONLY offended that way. My entire point was that they took on the victimization of their friend and were indignant.

    If you intend this as defense of the dishonesty that was being discussed, it would help to know the basis of the counter, rather than a reaction to the hypothetical scorn described here.
    There are TWO kinds of people in the world -- the kind who believe there are two kinds of people, and the kind who don't.

  50. #350
    In Heat............ BENDERBOY's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Jeez, people are still getting hit threads out of this old chestnut.
    "You may only be one person to the world, but you may also be the world to one person"
    - anonymous quote.

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