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View Poll Results: If you're gay, would you date a bisexual?

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  1. #101
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    No I can never do it, it's makes me so insecure when I know my partner is attracted to women.

    However there is this guy I am attracted to who just got married back in his hometown and I think he is bisexual as there is mutual attraction, but it just feels wrong to get involved with married men...
    Last edited by Maestoso; July 21st, 2013 at 03:29 AM.

  2. #102
    The nice guy from Nice. dpnice's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    I am still uncertain whether I have the right to be judgemental when someone has followed where their emotional and physical needs have led them.

    For those of you whose only argument against a three-way bisexual relationship is to shower with insults someone trying to explain their thoughts on the subject I would suggest that you need to rethink your attitudes and their expression on an Internet forum.

    The many comments based on hypothetical suppositions seems to distance us from the underlying moral conviction that this is wrong. Formulating an argument based on "what if" seems completely senseless, in my opinion. None of the proposed suppositions apply at the present moment and where is your guarantee that they ever will?

    Thankfully there are those, yes a few still exist on JUB, who approach this subject from the direction it should be; that of an ethical and moral wrong.

    And here is the the substance of the discussion that I believe has agitated the majority of people participating here:

    Quote Originally Posted by MysteryLovesCompany View Post
    ....................... This has nothing to do with sexual morale and everything to do with you not being able to defend your behavior beyond accusing the rest of us of puritanism.
    .................................................. ...
    Because obviously the majority of us feel that it is undefendable.
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  3. #103
    The nice guy from Nice. dpnice's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    I am still uncertain whether I have the right to be judgemental when someone has followed where their emotional and physical needs have led them.

    For those of you whose only argument against a three-way bisexual relationship is to shower with insults someone trying to explain their thoughts on the subject I would suggest that you need to rethink your attitudes and their expression on an Internet forum.

    The many comments based on hypothetical suppositions seems to distance us from the underlying moral conviction that this is wrong. Formulating an argument based on "what if" seems completely senseless, in my opinion. None of the proposed suppositions apply at the present moment and where is your guarantee that they ever will?

    Thankfully there are those, yes a few still exist on JUB, who approach this subject from the direction it should be; that of an ethical and moral wrong.

    And here is the the substance of the discussion that I believe has agitated the majority of people participating here:

    Quote Originally Posted by MysteryLovesCompany View Post
    ....................... This has nothing to do with sexual morale and everything to do with you not being able to defend your behavior beyond accusing the rest of us of puritanism.
    .................................................. ...
    Because obviously the majority of us feel that it is undefendable.
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  4. #104
    Look Away To The Moon. MoufOfKhaos's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by cgymike View Post
    Do you honestly think a bi person can maintain monogamy with someone of the same sex for the long haul? "Oh no sweety, I don't need a woman now that I've met you. You are a woman and a man for me enough!"

    Ya right!
    Yes I do.

    In the same way I believe a man can be monogamous even though people seem to think men are predestined to be whores because they're supposed to "spread their seed" or some ridiculous theory like that. Some of you are being completely moronic to think that bi men HAVE to have both, while gay men can settle for one.
    "Thereís death on the horizon,

    and Iíll run to behold your sacrifice..."

  5. #105
    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by blackbeltninja View Post
    Were I you, Kallipolis, I would back out of this thread now. You're already at rock bottom; no sense in breaking out the power tools.

    -d-
    Control freaks are always welcome to make their opinions felt.

  6. #106
    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by dpnice View Post

    I am still uncertain whether I have the right to be judgemental when someone has followed where their emotional and physical needs have led them.
    Here lies the truth....for the self righteous heterosexual person condemns the gay person for daring to be who we are... here we are in this thread..the successor of many similar threads over the years....evidencing gay men, judging other gay men for daring to live their life in accordance with their understandings...filled with supercilious, abusive comments that presume to know the secret to living a fulfilling life...when by their own admissions many are addicted to antidepressants and are living a lonely existence.

  7. #107
    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dejavudoo View Post


    The question in play here is whether a man has the moral right to deceive his life partner with an affair that might well be a betrayal of her emotional trust, her legal rights, and a reasonable expectation of his position as a role model for his soon-to-be-born child.
    You will note that I have excised the moralising, rather overdone but it's Sunday, and sermons are popular

    In your question there is a presumption that intimate relationships, such as marriage should be monogamous and whether an extra-marital affair is betrayal of marriage....most of us approach this question from the perspective of the Christian ethos....which pre-supposes that all intimate relationships should be restricted to two people....this where the social constructs of society fashions our understandings sufficiently that even today very many gay men feel guilty for being who they are...evidenced in admissions across these forums...further society just fifty years ago society was imprisoning gay men for daring to enter into sexual relationships with other men...for such behaviour was judged unnatural, perverse and immoral for "queers" were evidence of hedonistic behaviour that threatened the very foundations of a healthy society.....imagine, today gays are this forum are judging and condemning complete strangers for daring to engage in relationships that create happiness and joy in the life of those of us who are being honest with who we are.
    Last edited by kallipolis; July 21st, 2013 at 05:06 AM.

  8. #108
    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dejavudoo View Post
    Your understandings still do not address why it is acceptable for your partner to deceive his wife. To simply dismiss her right to know something so fundamental to her relationship is simply self-serving.

    WHY is it acceptable for you to know of his relationship with her, but not the reverse?

    The virtue of honesty in is hardly a "secret" when it comes to relationships.

    And the generalization that your detractors are mostly frigid cows on pills is a bit convenient, isn't it? Gee, and we were worried about the stereotypes from the Right.
    It's your perception that the matter is one of deception....not mine...and I live my life...according to my best understandings....not yours

  9. #109
    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    It is crystal clear that perceptions moulded from society's constructs, rather than from personal experience fashions idealistic dreams of monogamous relationships that society evidences just do not survive the realities of everyday life, for the divorce rate in most developed countries is about 1 in 2 with further evidence that married partners are easily drawn into short sexually exciting affairs countering the boredom that they experience with their married partner.

  10. #110
    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dejavudoo View Post
    Excising morality is rather convenient, isn't it? Literally, there can be no onus on us to ever act with regard to others. If we are always and absolutely the only arbiter of right, we can never do wrong.
    Attempting to fit into the perceptions of others, or attempting to fit into demands that society imposes upon its citizens hardly recognises the individual nature of the human person, each of us different concerned to become true to our self rather, than attempt to be some one we are not simply to satisfy the demands of society, our family, friends, acquaintances etc.

    The truth will set us free...providing we live our life in celebration of who we are rather, than being who society expects us to be.

    On another thread we are celebrating the anticipated pardon of Alan Turing who committed suicide as a result of society attempting to change him into another person, who he knew himself not to be....by chemical castration....leading him to suicide as a result being convicted as a criminal...this was 1952...today, the mature human being understands that happiness, and fulfilment can only be developed by being true to who we are...

    You may well discover that there are committed atheists who are as religious in their moralising on sexual relationships, as are the most evangelical of religious practitioners who dictate how the rest of us should live our life...Puritanical judgements are not monopolised by church goers.
    Last edited by kallipolis; July 21st, 2013 at 05:44 AM.

  11. #111
    The nice guy from Nice. dpnice's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Are you then saying that happiness can be pursued and attained with no consideration given to honesty and accepted morality?

    Quote Originally Posted by dpnice View Post
    I am still uncertain whether I have the right to be judgemental when someone has followed where their emotional and physical needs have led them.
    .
    As soon as I reread this I knew I should have included a disclaimer. In every situation we believe to be morally wrong I believe that it is possible to apply different levels of judgement. Here I am judging a mutual emotional attachment between two persons and not applying my uncertainty to the myriad of moral wrongs one could cite as a counter argument.
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  12. #112
    Look, listen and rejoice oakpope's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    Here lies the truth....for the self righteous heterosexual person condemns the gay person for daring to be who we are... here we are in this thread..the successor of many similar threads over the years....evidencing gay men, judging other gay men for daring to live their life in accordance with their understandings...filled with supercilious, abusive comments that presume to know the secret to living a fulfilling life...when by their own admissions many are addicted to antidepressants and are living a lonely existence.
    You are missing entirely the point.
    Your lover cheats on his (pregnant) wife with your blessing.

    That's it.

    And that's morally wrong in my book.

    That's it.

    You can argue that your morality is different, but that would mean you are forfeiting your right to complain if ever a partner of yours cheat on you.
    Magna Veritas


  13. #113
    The nice guy from Nice. dpnice's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    I have been so absorbed by this subject that I have slightly lost track of the thread's subject.

    Can any one produce a valid concensus on whether we would date a bi-guy or not?
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  14. #114
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    ^That question definitely seems split to me. I have never dated a Bi guy before. But I am not opposed to it myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by oakpope View Post
    You are missing entirely the point.
    Your lover cheats on his (pregnant) wife with your blessing.

    That's it.

    And that's morally wrong in my book.

    That's it.

    You can argue that your morality is different, but that would mean you are forfeiting your right to complain if ever a partner of yours cheat on you.
    Exactly!!

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    It's your perception that the matter is one of deception....not mine...and I live my life...according to my best understandings....not yours
    Just because you cannot or will not perceive it, it doesn't mean that it is not deception.
    Deception: the act of deceiving.
    Deceiving: to cause to accept as true or valid what is false or invalid. (Per my trusty Merriam-Webster)

    So if your partners wife is believing she is in a monogamous relationship, by him not telling her, he is causing her to believe in a false truth. Which by definition is deceiving.
    Last edited by vater292; July 21st, 2013 at 06:16 AM.

  15. #115
    JUB Addict The Fly's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    NO I would not date a Bi-sexual.
    Not because of a fear of them cheating, I don't believe being bi-sexual makes someone more prone to dishonesty.
    Not because "they're really gay and just won't admit it", if someone says they're Bi I assume they know better than I about their orientation.
    The reason I wouldn't date a Bi-sexual is I believe a persons sexual identity is such a deep part of an individuals self. I can not wrap my head around the fact (and I accept it as fact) that someone can be attracted sexually to either gender.
    The fact that I will never be able to understand the why's and how's of a bi-sexuals orientation is a emotional roadblock to me.

  16. #116
    OOOG AKBAR JohnnyAnger's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    kallipolis - if you really live this enlightened, free existence, with no consideration for others at all then I am sure your partner shares some ideals pretty similar to you. I am sure if he does, his wife will also be similar. Therefore you may as well tell her as she won't care at all, but being open with her will probably bring you all closer together.
    I don't moralise on any relationship when consent is given by all parties involved, but you continually and actively support the lying to this women.

    Also please drop the attempts to sound clever, you come off as quite condescending and actually stupid, which I don't imagine you are.

  17. #117
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyAnger View Post
    kallipolis - if you really live this enlightened, free existence, with no consideration for others at all then I am sure your partner shares some ideals pretty similar to you. I am sure if he does, his wife will also be similar. Therefore you may as well tell her as she won't care at all, but being open with her will probably bring you all closer together.
    I don't moralise on any relationship when consent is given by all parties involved, but you continually and actively support the lying to this women.
    Surely she will not fly into a rage or wither in despair at being deceived about something that is only natural and proper. Surely she will join in the mockery of our provincial, culturally-biased views, and celebrate her husband's dalliances. Maybe she will even want to watch. Maybe she will even apply the lube.
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  18. #118
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by blackbeltninja View Post
    Hang on.

    Your partner is married. Did he do the traditional vows, the "forsaking all others" part? If he did, he's in the wrong - he promised to be faithful, and now he's cheating because it's without his wife's consent. If they don't believe in this part, they should have asked the priest to leave it out. If it was left in, well... he's out of luck.
    -d-
    Surely they didn't fall into that trap of hypocritical, puritanical, judeo-christian nonsense when they got married. Surely they were able to surpass moribund social conventions of monogamy when they made their vows to each other.

    Surely they rejected "conventional social wisdom" in recognition of their innate desires. Surely their vows included "love, honour, cherish, and fuck someone else when you don't feel like it, or when I do."

    I am convinced they would have added "And in recognition of the History of Slavery in the Americas, we vow to have at least one solemn Three-Way of Remembrance every year, on what the Americans call "Martin Luther King Day."
    Two journalists killed during live broadcasts by madman smothering them with pillows. Because remember, guns don't kill people....

  19. #119
    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by dpnice View Post
    Are you then saying that happiness can be pursued and attained with no consideration given to honesty and accepted morality?



    As soon as I reread this I knew I should have included a disclaimer. In every situation we believe to be morally wrong I believe that it is possible to apply different levels of judgement. Here I am judging a mutual emotional attachment between two persons and not applying my uncertainty to the myriad of moral wrongs one could cite as a counter argument.
    Were my relationship with Vassilios to impact negatively on his marriage then I would be faced with a moral dilemma, that of damaging his marriage.... in reality my relationship with Vassilios is a guarantee that his marriage will prosper for I am encouraging him to remain devoted to his wife knowing that our relationship addresses his need to also relate sexually with men as well as with women something that cannot be understood or appreciated by those who are not bisexual for want of living this experience.

    Moral judgements are often viewed through the prism of our cultural influences and here we face the inevitable intrusion of the puritan state of mind that views relationships in black and white terms that relate to monogamy being the foundation of a healthy loving relationship.

    Your responses indicate a level of maturity that recognises no two human beings are alike nor that human beings should fit into a preconceived mould simply to satisfy the demands of society....look where we gays were some sixty years ago when Alan Turing committed suicide as a result of being convicted of indecency simply for wanting to be true to who he was...a gay man....thankfully society's attitudes towards gays has changed radically over the past forty years in the United Kingdom....
    Last edited by kallipolis; July 21st, 2013 at 07:23 AM.

  20. #120
    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyAnger View Post
    kallipolis - if you really live this enlightened, free existence, with no consideration for others .
    Your presumption is not my reality for my concerns do not stop with me.

  21. #121
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    Were my relationship with Vassilios to impact negatively on his marriage then I would be with a moral dilemma, that of damaging his marriage.... in reality my relationship with Vassilios is a guarantee that his marriage will prosper for I am encouraging him to remain devoted to his wife.

    Moral judgements are often viewed through the prism of our cultural influences and here we face the inevitable intrusion of the puritan state of mind that views relationships in black and white terms that relate to monogamy being the foundation of a healthy loving relationship.
    None of the moral positions in this thread are viewed through anything like a puritan fetish for monogamy.

    As people keep taking pains to explain to you - frustrating as it is to repeatedly hear a rebuttal to a point we've never made - it is not the arrangement itself, but the deception and lack of consent that is untenable.

    If you are guaranteeing the prosperity of his marriage - and hers - she should know about your "encouragement of his devotion" so she can properly thank you.
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  22. #122
    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    Surely they didn't fall into that trap of hypocritical, puritanical, judeo-christian nonsense when they got married. Surely they were able to surpass moribund social conventions of monogamy when they made their vows to each other.

    Surely they rejected "conventional social wisdom" in recognition of their innate desires. Surely their vows included "love, honour, cherish, and fuck someone else when you don't feel like it, or when I do."

    I am convinced they would have added "And in recognition of the History of Slavery in the Americas, we vow to have at least one solemn Three-Way of Remembrance every year, on what the Americans call "Martin Luther King Day."
    Here lies your hypocrisy for you an evangelical atheist well known on these forums for advancing atheistic views are quoting conventional wisdom mediated through the prism of Christian morality to advance your puritanical understandings that you believe should be imposed on everyone ....as if it were your personal business to intervene in the intimate life of complete strangers.....representative of the more extreme manifestations of Christian self righteous finger pointing....some hypocrisy.

  23. #123
    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    None of the moral positions in this thread are viewed through anything like a puritan fetish for monogamy.

    As people keep taking pains to explain to you - frustrating as it is to repeatedly hear a rebuttal to a point we've never made - it is not the arrangement itself, but the deception and lack of consent that is untenable.

    If you are guaranteeing the prosperity of his marriage - and hers - she should know about your "encouragement of his devotion" so she can properly thank you.
    But they are for if I did not know you be a dedicated atheist freely advancing atheistic opinions on these forums, I would have understood you to be yet another holier than thou Christian evangelical assuming that they know better than others, how to live another's life...judgements we gays continue to face daily

  24. #124
    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    If you are guaranteeing the prosperity of his marriage - and hers - she should know about your "encouragement of his devotion" so she can properly thank you.[/B]
    Why...because you say so? That the wife is happy with her married life to Vassilios, and Vassilios is happy with his relationship with me, why should that bond of happiness be threatened by revealing that Vassilios is bisexual, and in relationship with a man? Would that revelation assist any one or is it just a matter of academic equilibrium. Do you really believe that in any married, or intimate relationship the partners reveal all their secrets to one another?

  25. #125
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    Here lies your hypocrisy for you an evangelical atheist well known on these forums for advancing atheistic views are quoting conventional wisdom mediated through the prism of Christian morality to advance your puritanical understandings that you believe should be imposed on everyone ....as if it were your personal business to intervene in the intimate life of complete strangers.....representative of the more extreme manifestations of Christian self righteous finger pointing....some hypocrisy.
    I see, for want of a reply to these points, you would rather debate atheism instead. Your confusion about my motives comes from your own mistaken assumption that all things come from Christ. When you have the understanding that human thinking about morality goes most likely as far back as antecedent species a million years ago, then you would be able to see that there are much deeper roots for my position than what you take to be "conventional wisdom." Atheist morality does not come from aping a puritanical conception of Christliness.

    So far the only intervention in the intimate life of a complete stranger is that which you have made your personal business by sleeping with someone else's husband without her consent. Intervention, or perhaps "insinuation in the intimate life of a complete stranger" is more applicable.
    Last edited by bankside; July 21st, 2013 at 07:42 AM.
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  26. #126
    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fly View Post
    NO I would not date a Bi-sexual.
    Not because of a fear of them cheating, I don't believe being bi-sexual makes someone more prone to dishonesty.
    Not because "they're really gay and just won't admit it", if someone says they're Bi I assume they know better than I about their orientation.
    The reason I wouldn't date a Bi-sexual is I believe a persons sexual identity is such a deep part of an individuals self. I can not wrap my head around the fact (and I accept it as fact) that someone can be attracted sexually to either gender.
    The fact that I will never be able to understand the why's and how's of a bi-sexuals orientation is a emotional roadblock to me.
    This a rational response- minus the predictable condescending judgements - which I can appreciate for its attempt to represent your response to life's stimuli...what if you met a bisexual man who chose to remain silent on this issue....later revealing this fact....after a relationship had begun to flourish? Would you remain immovable on your beliefs or give a try just in case your earlier understandings might be influenced by a real life experience loving a man with a different sexual orientation from your own.

  27. #127
    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    I see, for want of a reply to these points, you would rather debate atheism instead. Your confusion about my motives comes from your own mistaken assumption that all things come from Christ. When you have the understanding that human thinking about morality goes most likely as far back as antecedent species a million years ago, then you would be able to see that there are much deeper roots for my position than what you take to be "conventional wisdom." Atheist morality does not come from aping a puritanical conception of Christliness.

    So far the only intervention in the intimate life of a complete stranger is that which you have made your personal business by sleeping with someone else's husband without her consent. Intervention, or perhaps "insinuation in the intimate life of a complete stranger" is more applicable.
    On the contrary I am surprised that a dedicated atheist is practising the predictable behaviour of those self righteous Christians you so often take to task for their judgemental behaviour when condemning gays for our hedonistic life style...I had hoped for better from you..

  28. #128
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    Why...because you say so? That the wife is happy with her married life to Vassilios, and Vassilios is happy with his relationship with me, why should that bond of happiness be threatened by revealing that Vassilios is bisexual, and in relationship with a man? Would that revelation assist any one or is it just a matter of academic equilibrium. Do you really believe that in any married, or intimate relationship the partners reveal all their secrets to one another?
    So you admit should she find out it has the possibility to hurt their relationship?

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    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by vater292 View Post
    So you admit should she find out it has the possibility to hurt their relationship?
    The possibility exists and for this reason, not for any other reason, it would be detrimental to the lives of three happy people to raise the issue when no reason exists for it to be raised..

    Academic posturing that presumes married couples should reveal all their secrets to one another is not a reality in the daily life of married people...nor should it be for despite the marriage the two married partners retain their individual right and freedom to live as they determine....with divorce rates evidencing that married life is not viewed by the majority as a permanent state.

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    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    It's just after six in the evening here in Greece and I have pulled a double shift at my work place beginning at 7 - it's holiday time, with staff levels diminishing day by day taking their Summer leave - so I must bid my detractors a temporary farewell with my thanks for the exchanges always a learning process for me.

  31. #131
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    Why...because you say so? That the wife is happy with her married life to Vassilios, and Vassilios is happy with his relationship with me, why should that bond of happiness be threatened by revealing that Vassilios is bisexual, and in relationship with a man? Would that revelation assist any one or is it just a matter of academic equilibrium. Do you really believe that in any married, or intimate relationship the partners reveal all their secrets to one another?
    That bond will not be threatened in the least, as we are all meant to surpass outdated and provincial conceptions of morality. Surely that revelation would only help her better appreciate human nature and better know her cherished husband, and allow her to join you and vassilios on such an enlightened plane of understanding.

    Incidentally I don't believe people reveal all their secrets. I observe that they often do not. Generally I think this secrecy is a detriment to a relationship, but in some cases that is a matter of discretion for those concerned.

    That has nothing to do with breaking a commitment freely made. If people do not wish to be constrained by monogamy, they need not commit themselves to it. The problem is you are in a relationship with someone who pretends to be monogamous to someone else. She consented to a monogamous relationship, not an open one. Her consent is required for your conduct and that of Vassilios to be ethical.
    Two journalists killed during live broadcasts by madman smothering them with pillows. Because remember, guns don't kill people....

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    A Total Bottom mbamike's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dejavudoo View Post
    Wishful thinking based on selective hearing. My answer was complete, more complex, and supported with examples. You merely focused on the honesty of my admission that social disapproval has no real authority to affect immoral behavior. And that is a good thing, but it doesn't nullify the bona fide argument that society is in fact made from many things, of which one is a generally unified ethos and morality. It doesn't have to monolithic or totalitarian, but it can hardly be deemed oppressive for a people to value honesty in marriage commitments.
    Using your argument, I and those like me should be killed. I am a gay man and I actively have sex with other men.

    My society tells me this is an immoral act. My society disapproves of my behavior. My society passes judgment on me because of beliefs they have. I do not share the same opinion as my society on this issue, yet they chose to pass judgment on me. My behavior has no effect on my society. My behavior is strictly between my sex partners and I, yet my society chose to pass judgment on me because of their beliefs. My behavior will not change because of my society's beliefs. I will reap the rewards or suffer the consequences of my behavior. Yet my society chose to pass judgment on me.

    I do not want my society's judgement! I do not need my society's judgement! I live in the USA where the SCOUS decision on DOMA section 3 had no impact.

    The same is true regarding Kalli. He simply answered a question that was posted on the forum. Then the "moral police" came out by the masses to condemn him. They took control of the thread and redirected it into a discussion about adultery. They passed judgment on him because he was violating their beliefs.

    So, by what authority do we judge another? Does his relationship effect us in any way? Will projecting one's beliefs onto his relationship change the relationship? Who will reap the rewards or suffer the consequences of the relationship?

    Homophobia kills!

  33. #133
    Booyah! Callum's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Shhh, kallipolis, shhhh...your responses are just furthering the divide, and giving solid (but very warped) reasoning for the anti-bisexual crowd.

    The answer to the OP's question is obviously a yes. And I am stunned it's been this long without a bisexual shitfest thread.
    blacksyringe

  34. #134
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    The possibility exists and for this reason, not for any other reason, it would be detrimental to the lives of three happy people to raise the issue when no reason exists for it to be raised..

    Academic posturing that presumes married couples should reveal all their secrets to one another is not a reality in the daily life of married people...nor should it be for despite the marriage the two married partners retain their individual right and freedom to live as they determine....with divorce rates evidencing that married life is not viewed by the majority as a permanent state.
    A cynical view of marriage as transitory and trifling.

    And yet with such a base disregard for all marriage and their marriage, you seek to preserve the illusion of it as a key to their happiness. Surely if marriage is so insubstantial, it should be no great loss to Vassilios' wife and no detriment to anyone's happiness, either that her marriage should end in divorce, or that it should continue in such an enlightened and unconventional way. Either marriage is a pointless thing that can easily be dispensed with in the light of the truth with no harm done, or it is a substantial thing which Vasillios has betrayed (and as you have countenanced and encouraged) whilst smugly claiming to have reinforced it.

    Marriage is a voluntary arrangement where the two married partners consent to not always living their lives as they determine…to not follow every whim or desire…and to make mutual their obligation to each other.

    The parties can come to whatever terms suit them, but they must actually share in a common understanding of what the terms actually are, and then live with those terms. A person may keep secrets within those terms, but they may not violate obligations they have freely chosen.

    As regards academic posturing, incidentally, I might have restrained myself in the view that it is awkward to comment on someone else's actual circumstances. I would prefer that this discussion had been academic.

    However you volunteered your personal circumstances, and have happily agreed to continue the discussion in several posts, and I take courage to continue from this and from your quote:
    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    I have a very thick skin and am familiar with more bruising threads that were once the norm here some ten years ago.
    I really am talking therefore about your circumstances, and not some academic abstraction. And your example really does lend itself to the topic. (And I suppose it gives you a chance to exercise the art of debate which you so enjoy; changing the subject, introducing straw men like "heterosexual norms" or "judeo-christian inertia," or accusations of hypocrisy toward people who are morally consistent for rhetorical effect.) But ultimately you give us a personal and relevant example to work from.

    And unfortunately I cannot see how you have any regard for the wife of Vasillios at all. By your actions it seems you judge her to be beneath comprehension of your enlightened arrangement. And as someone having nothing to do with the three of you, in that disinterested perspective, the entire base of your argument seems utterly self-serving. Rather like watching a faltering dieter explain to himself why just one more helping of lasagne is still reasonable. Except, you know, hearts, emotions, instead of a few calories.
    Last edited by bankside; July 21st, 2013 at 08:47 AM.
    Two journalists killed during live broadcasts by madman smothering them with pillows. Because remember, guns don't kill people....

  35. #135
    Slut vater292's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    The possibility exists
    So you admit it and yet neither you nor her husband care enough or respect her enough to tell her. I think that speaks volumes.

    As for the secrets in relationships, yes there can be secrets in the relationship however for a solid healthy one there should not be secrets that effect both people in the marriage. Her husband dating you definitely effects her. For that reason she deserves to know.

  36. #136
    Look Away To The Moon. MoufOfKhaos's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by -Callum- View Post
    Shhh, kallipolis, shhhh...your responses are just furthering the divide, and giving solid (but very warped) reasoning for the anti-bisexual crowd.

    The answer to the OP's question is obviously a yes. And I am stunned it's been this long without a bisexual shitfest thread.
    But boy did this one shoot off one HELL of a firecracker, didn't it?
    "Thereís death on the horizon,

    and Iíll run to behold your sacrifice..."

  37. #137
    JUB Addict The Fly's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    This a rational response- minus the predictable condescending judgements - which I can appreciate for its attempt to represent your response to life's stimuli...what if you met a bisexual man who chose to remain silent on this issue....later revealing this fact....after a relationship had begun to flourish? Would you remain immovable on your beliefs or give a try just in case your earlier understandings might be influenced by a real life experience loving a man with a different sexual orientation from your own.

    There were no judgements, condescending or otherwise.
    As to your "what if" scenario, I can't imagine a relationship would start with someone with a different orientation than my own. It's one of (but not the only) things I want to know right up front. So remaining silent would be perceived as hiding who he is, and that alone would close the book.

  38. #138
    I've seen some weird shit luckynumbah7's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    Were my relationship with Vassilios to impact negatively on his marriage then I would be faced with a moral dilemma, that of damaging his marriage.... in reality my relationship with Vassilios is a guarantee that his marriage will prosper for I am encouraging him to remain devoted to his wife knowing that our relationship addresses his need to also relate sexually with men as well as with women something that cannot be understood or appreciated by those who are not bisexual for want of living this experience.
    Poly & Bisexual people have already told you that that's not how good monogomy or poly work. "The Rules of a Good Relationship" (of every type of relationship) can be boiled to "Thou shalt not be dishonest". And this is something all reasonable people agree on. We as a species have agreed with this rule for a very long period of time. It might be a good idea to take some time out to ponder why. That's the problem in that relationship. There's no honesty about having sex with her spouse when they're in a monogamous relationship. Her husband (and you by extension) are not telling the truth to her. You're lieing to her. It's not a hard concept to grasp.

    -edited to add -and don't pull on me the 'what bisexuals need' to feel healthy' concept. The idea is that your boyfriend is lieing about seeing you. And that it is unethical.
    Last edited by luckynumbah7; July 21st, 2013 at 11:33 AM.
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  39. #139
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by para0402 View Post
    Well, if he likes me and I like him, I don't see the problem.
    ^^^^^^ This.
    I am Dutch, so please excuse me for my low level of English.

  40. #140
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Can a man who would betray his pregnant wife be trusted to be honest with the person that is helping him betray her? Or anyone else for that matter?

    Kallipolis, I repeat my earlier question: are you okay with your "partner" going behind your back and having risky, unprotected sex?
    After all, what you don't know can't hurt you, right?
    Everyone wants to be heard. No one wants to listen.

  41. #141
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoufOfKhaos View Post
    Yes I do.

    In the same way I believe a man can be monogamous even though people seem to think men are predestined to be whores because they're supposed to "spread their seed" or some ridiculous theory like that. Some of you are being completely moronic to think that bi men HAVE to have both, while gay men can settle for one.
    Moronic? Gee, that's nice. Express one's opinion and get called a moron. Thanks for NOT addressing the topic and deflecting it to generic issue of monogamy. Of course a man ANY man CAN be monogamous. But we are talking about bisexual men here. Are you saying they can forgo sex with a woman if they meet the right guy? To give up that side of themselves? Let's stick to that...IMO they cannot long term and thus the tendancy to cheat (with a woman) comes up. Now, if some would consider that a less serious form of cheating (because their gay partner wasn't cheated because they slept with another man) you may have something. But, it's still cheating in my book. Not a part of monogamy in the case of a bisexual guy in relationship with a gay man. Now, of course, a bi guy in an ltr with another bi guy is maybe different because then they might agree that satisfying their bi side with another woman is a legit reason to at least open the relationship. But still NOT TO CHEAT.

  42. #142
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by -Callum- View Post
    Shhh, kallipolis, shhhh...your responses are just furthering the divide, and giving solid (but very warped) reasoning for the anti-bisexual crowd.

    The answer to the OP's question is obviously a yes. And I am stunned it's been this long without a bisexual shitfest thread.
    Do you think any one here is anti-bisexual? I, for one, am not....you act as if there is a virtual army of people with battle lines drawn. This is simply not the case. I think you are muckraking.

  43. #143
    Look Away To The Moon. MoufOfKhaos's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by cgymike View Post
    Moronic? Gee, that's nice. Express one's opinion and get called a moron.
    Work on your reading skills - I did NOT call you a moron.

    Quote Originally Posted by cgymike View Post
    Thanks for NOT addressing the topic and deflecting it to generic issue of monogamy.
    I've actually addressed the topic a number of times. But didn't YOU deflect this to a "generic issue of monogamy"? I mean, your very post - the one I quoted - states that a bi man isn't predestined to keep being monogamous if faced with a same sex partner! So let's not try to rake me over the coals for something you did and got called on.

    Quote Originally Posted by cgymike View Post
    Of course a man ANY man CAN be monogamous. But we are talking about bisexual men here. Are you saying they can forgo sex with a woman if they meet the right guy? To give up that side of themselves?
    Yes. Just like a man that's into men who's married or committed to another man can give up chasing other men if he loves that man. I don't see why that's so difficult for some to understand - being bisexual does not mean having to have both, or as some seem to be readily stating, that the same sex relationship with never work because they only want the opposite sex anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by cgymike View Post
    Let's stick to that...IMO they cannot long term and thus the tendancy to cheat (with a woman) comes up.
    Glad you said it's an opinion, because it sure as hell isn't a fact. A person cheating is a person cheating - doesn't matter if he's bi, gay or a hermit crab. Doesn't matter who he's cheating with. Bi men are not more predetermined to cheat anymore than redheads are. It's silly - and yes, MORONIC - to think that having a second gender as an option(option is not the right word, but we'll go with that) means double the propensity to cheat.

    Quote Originally Posted by cgymike View Post
    Now, if some would consider that a less serious form of cheating (because their gay partner wasn't cheated because they slept with another man) you may have something. But, it's still cheating in my book.
    Well if cheating is cheating is cheating in your book, then where is the problem with bi men cheating vs gay men cheating? Either way, if he cheats, doesn't really matter if it's with a girl or a guy... it's that he's unfaithful, period.
    "Thereís death on the horizon,

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  44. #144
    Booyah! Callum's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by cgymike View Post
    Do you think any one here is anti-bisexual? I, for one, am not....you act as if there is a virtual army of people with battle lines drawn. This is simply not the case. I think you are muckraking.
    Nah, give it time. This thread is a day old and it's the summer. We're bound for a disturbance in due time.

    Unless, of course, the moderators are working their magic.
    blacksyringe

  45. #145
    blackbeltninja
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by -Callum- View Post
    And I am stunned it's been this long without a bisexual shitfest thread.
    For this we owe Kallipolis a vote of thanks. His revelation on... whatever you want to call this... has derailed any significant level of bi-bashing.

    Also, Jasun isn't here.


    -d-

  46. #146
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by cgymike View Post
    Do you think any one here is anti-bisexual?
    Do chickens have beaks?

    -d-

  47. #147
    blackbeltninja
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    It's just after six in the evening here in Greece and I have pulled a double shift at my work place beginning at 7 - it's holiday time, with staff levels diminishing day by day taking their Summer leave - so I must bid my detractors a temporary farewell with my thanks for the exchanges always a learning process for me.
    I notice for all the cutting, thrusting and riposting you've practiced in this thread, you clearly forgot to answer my question about your partner and his wife's vows.

    -d-

  48. #148
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Saybrooke View Post
    Oh yeah bi guys are sooooooo sexy
    I was gonna say HELLLLS TO THE NO.... but upon further thought.... I am bi!!
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  49. #149
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    OMG... I just read the thread.... someone is the 'other women'

    tsk tsk
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  50. #150
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by blackbeltninja View Post
    Do chickens have beaks?

    -d-
    Why yes the DO...they also have CLAWS.


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