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View Poll Results: If you're gay, would you date a bisexual?

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103. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    73 70.87%
  • No

    23 22.33%
  • I don't know

    7 6.80%
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  1. #101
    Dejavudoo
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by mbamike View Post
    By what authority do we judge another person's relationship? A person is not judged for being in the closet. He/She is encouraged to come out on their own terms.
    By virtue of being a human. By the same authority we commonly disapprove of coercive sex between an adult and a minor. By the same authority we disdain the prostitution of an orangutan in Indonesia. By the same authority we condemn the trafficking of humans into sex trade. By the same authority we find it unacceptable to use a severely mentally impaired person for selfish sexual pleasure.

    We make judgments every day. I'm not afraid of being honest about it. You've obviously made a judgment about people who judge sexual fidelity. Welcome to the ranks.

    Honesty is hardly difficult to defend or propagate.

    It is fine to be closeted, but it is not to be desired.

    But, when talking about being closeted AND deceiving a wife, I have no misgiving whatsoever in judging that. To be sure, they don't have to answer to me or my standards, but I don't have to concur that everything is equal in human sexuality either.

    It is wrong to deceive a loved one for selfish gain. It is wrong.
    Last edited by Dejavudoo; July 20th, 2013 at 05:11 PM.

  2. #102
    JUB Addict luckynumbah7's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Native Son View Post
    That's true.



    Well, the overriding fear seems to be that BIs are more likely to cheat. Where does that come from? A really, really dark place, I would imagine....

    I think we should try to get to the bottom of that fear. (Not holding my breath.)
    Oh yeah, that. There's also the absolutely charming concept that poly people are only in it for the sex, lesbians' just need a good dicking and gay guys have no love to give. The absolute rock bottom to all of those (different as they are) is that "So-and-so doesn't want to be with me / cheated on me, so it must be that somethings' wrong with them." And once they decide what's wrong with the elusive 'them' (That guy cheated, and they're also bi! That must be it!') they just....extrapolate. And then they tell their friends.

    I think the 'Bi's are more likely to cheat' thing happens (in a small part, but certainly not totally by any means) because of a monogamy oriented social structure. Not that monogamous people are more likely to cheat (I've found the rates are about equal, funnily enough, although the 'how' changes with regard to cheating and poly relationships). I figure most people are searching for 'the one', even if in a roundabout way and they think they can be and have to be all things to their partner. Which isn't really possible. Most people don't fulfull their partners every need, let alone their partners' every want. It's why people still have family and friends instead of just hanging out with the "one person who fulfills everything". But instead of talking things out and finding out what's changed in the relationship or what and how something has gone of the rails, people cheat. That's not even getting into drunken one-night mistakes, which are a whole 'nother topic, really.

    Another reason for the "Bi's cheat!" is because (roughly) half the population looks different from the other half, genital wise. Frankly, I think the people who refuse to date bi people because they're afraid that their spouse will leave 'em for a different genital configuration aren't really thinking anything through, and they're seriously selling themselves short. "We are all reducible to our genitals, woe is us", is basically where that comes from. I mean, come on, there's a huge amount of variation in genitals, you can find plenty of differing dicks easily enough. Just go to any locker room. It's rooted in an "I can't compare" mindset. Then again, the dating population seems to be worried people will cheat in general. It's just upped for bisexuals because liking only one sex is the norm, and if you up it to liking two, people think that the number of possible partners jumped. As if billions of people in a possible dating pool was just fine, but add an an extra 4 billion and suddenly, it's just too much. Pfffft. Oh god, and don't y'dare ever admit to liking a trans person - only some body configurations are acceptable, because y'really can't compete with someone who is 'half n'half'. Best of both worlds my ass, I hate that coining.
    If I blow your mind, do you promise not to think in my mouth? - Unknown

  3. #103
    A Total Bottom mbamike's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dejavudoo View Post
    To be sure, they don't have to answer to me or my standards, . . .
    Here is your answer.

    Homophobia kills!

  4. #104
    Pianist
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Native Son View Post
    Well, that's your word, love. I'm just sittin' here readin'.
    That you're replying suggests less than passive involvement.

    That do you think of Liberace?
    I have no strong opinion one way or the other.
    Last edited by Pianist; July 20th, 2013 at 05:50 PM.

  5. #105
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Have I even answered the question yet?

    Yes. I would be delighted to. It would be flattering to mean something to someone out of not just half the population but all of it. And I'd be unstoppably curious about this aspect of my guy's ability to see the erotic in other people of either gender. I think I'd learn something about human sexuality.

    Oh, wait. I did answer! But it bears repeating.
    Last edited by bankside; July 20th, 2013 at 06:18 PM.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  6. #106
    MysteryLovesCompany
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    What you presume to be ethical behaviour is based upon current social constructs that presume to fit each, individual human being into preconceived life that fits in with conventional wisdom how society should function.....remembering some fifty years gay men were imprisoned for daring to engage in sexual relationships with men....how life changes....
    You're not being half as clever as you think you are here. This has nothing to do with sexual morale and everything to do with you not being able to defend your behavior beyond accusing the rest of us of puritanism.

    The argument that her ever finding out about the two of you being purely hypothetical is not a valid one. First of all, she most likely will find out one day, and what then? Are you going to call her judgmental and puritanical for being upset as well?
    Second, you have no way of actually knowing if she's truly happy with this deal because by not disclosing your relationship you've deprived her of the opportunity to know if she could be even happier with her husband had he not spent time away from her to be with you, for example.

    Bottom line is that if you were 100% certain that she wouldn't have a problem with this threesome then you would have told her a long time ago, which means that you're basically just afraid to tell her because you both know that she would most likely be very upset.

  7. #107
    MysteryLovesCompany
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    But to answer the original question. Yes I would.

    If someone is in love and attracted to me then I don't see what difference it makes who else he is capable of being attracted to. Really.

  8. #108

    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pianist View Post
    That you're replying suggests less than passive involvement. .

    You don't pull a word like "toxic" out of thin air. I was lividly reading, and you threw it in my face, all right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pianist View Post
    I have no strong opinion one way or the other.
    I see.

    You're telling me you can do what he did and you're sittin' there not doin' it?

  9. #109
    Pianist
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Native Son View Post
    You don't pull a word like "toxic" out of thin air. I was lividly reading, and you threw it in my face, all right?
    No, I referenced my earlier post.

    You're telling me you can do what he did and you're sittin' there not doin' it?
    I'm telling you nothing of the kind. I thought you were just asking me if I liked him.

    However, Liberace was an outstanding showman, was classically trained, played the classics and pop and appeared on TV and in movies. I'm not Liberace, and have no desire to emulate him.

    That said, I have produced a CD that is for sale, and have two other projects in the works, temporarily on hold whilst I try and configure my updated music software.
    Last edited by Pianist; July 20th, 2013 at 07:14 PM.

  10. #110

    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by luckynumbah7 View Post
    I think the 'Bi's are more likely to cheat' thing happens (in a small part, but certainly not totally by any means) because of a monogamy oriented social structure.
    I don't know...

    I think they just do it cos it's in their nature to do it. Which goes back to the logic of would I date him or her in the first place. I think I can tell just by appearance and or vibe. I think I might be kinda psychic in that sense.
    Last edited by Native Son; July 20th, 2013 at 07:16 PM.

  11. #111

    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pianist View Post
    That said, I have produced a CD that is for sale, and have two other projects in the works, temporarily on hold whilst I try and configure my updated music software.
    Got any YouTube vids?

  12. #112

    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Native Son View Post
    I think they just do it cos it's in their nature to do it.
    By that I meant PEOPLE who cheat...not attaching any kind of label or social construct or whatever.

  13. #113

    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ibill1 View Post
    Yes. But if I liked him enough, eventually I would ask him to make a decision if he was dating women also. Pu**y or cock buddy, your choice!
    Excellent use of asterisks.

  14. #114
    Pianist
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Native Son View Post
    Got any YouTube vids?
    I'll PM you a link. There're vids of me just yakking and venting, and the music is just static images.
    Last edited by Pianist; July 20th, 2013 at 09:41 PM.

  15. #115
    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoufOfKhaos View Post
    Cheating is when all parties involved are not informed about the actions of their mate. Basic, cut and dry. Didn't have to make a "judgment" or "moral" call - she doesn't know, therefore your fervor about an "unconventional" relationship is as empty as the prose you use to explain it away.

    So again, come back down.
    Your assumption is drawn from your belief that human relationships must fit in with your understandings how intimate relationships should function when human nature does not evidence such "values" universally accepted, or practised for human life has its way of making exceptions which relate to the individual nature of the human being choosing to do their own thing contrary to the accepted values of society. The United States is a puritanical society founded upon principles that speak of liberty whilst one quarter of its population with black skins were enslaved...here lies the deception and the hypocrisy.

  16. #116
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by NYClover54 View Post
    Some people say that bisexuals always wind up with women.
    Yeah but what's your opinion. Who cares what some people say! That's a pretty weak statement IMO. If they end up wit women then what? What's the ultimate divorce rate of bisexuals marrying women? Higher than straight men? I wonder.


    Bisexuals cheat more ...yep...that's a fact. "Some people" here are upset about that. But to be honest, if I found out my bf was bisexual due to finding out he slept with a woman on the side to get his bi kicks he would be out on his arse INSTANTLY. Even faster than if I found out he slept with a guy. I just don't like pussy and the thought of my bf skanking down with some icky tuna grosses me out!
    Last edited by cgymike; July 21st, 2013 at 12:55 AM.

  17. #117
    JUB Addict luckynumbah7's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Saying something is a fact doesnt make it so.

  18. #118
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by luckynumbah7 View Post
    Saying something is a fact doesnt make it so.
    Do you honestly think a bi person can maintain monogamy with someone of the same sex for the long haul? "Oh no sweety, I don't need a woman now that I've met you. You are a woman and a man for me enough!"

    Ya right!

  19. #119
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    here go fa world leadurs
    giv ya citazens a fuck card woteva age ya gon say fucky okay

    folk sign it wot fuckys wit a nice prtetty labulls so everyone can check
    * 222 gay folk taday "
    1 straight folk taday
    $ 2 dozyens Bi taday $
    3 penguins
    " escort wot no a whoreins porstitue cause nice shoes *
    female from saturn
    ^ comic hero ^
    " teddy bear Model 5000 "

    ans folk get sleep from ya awsums citaens a great lands supa everhtang

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    ya joice amoist startass await yas wens ya alls adun ya puffins
    _tis ways care ya shoes a windy day if ya palayas_

  20. #120
    The old familiar sting blackbeltninja's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    Your assumption is drawn from your belief that human relationships must fit in with your understandings how intimate relationships should function.
    Hang on.

    Your partner is married. Did he do the traditional vows, the "forsaking all others" part? If he did, he's in the wrong - he promised to be faithful, and now he's cheating because it's without his wife's consent. If they don't believe in this part, they should have asked the priest to leave it out. If it was left in, well... he's out of luck.

    Were I you, Kallipolis, I would back out of this thread now. You're already at rock bottom; no sense in breaking out the power tools.

    -d-
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  21. #121
    The old familiar sting blackbeltninja's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by cgymike View Post
    Do you honestly think a bi person can maintain monogamy with someone of the same sex for the long haul? "Oh no sweety, I don't need a woman now that I've met you. You are a woman and a man for me enough!"

    Ya right!
    This attitude probably explains why you're single.

    -d-
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  22. #122
    Slut Maestoso's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    No I can never do it, it's makes me so insecure when I know my partner is attracted to women.

    However there is this guy I am attracted to who just got married back in his hometown and I think he is bisexual as there is mutual attraction, but it just feels wrong to get involved with married men...
    Last edited by Maestoso; July 21st, 2013 at 03:29 AM.

  23. #123
    The nice guy from Nice. dpnice's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    I am still uncertain whether I have the right to be judgemental when someone has followed where their emotional and physical needs have led them.

    For those of you whose only argument against a three-way bisexual relationship is to shower with insults someone trying to explain their thoughts on the subject I would suggest that you need to rethink your attitudes and their expression on an Internet forum.

    The many comments based on hypothetical suppositions seems to distance us from the underlying moral conviction that this is wrong. Formulating an argument based on "what if" seems completely senseless, in my opinion. None of the proposed suppositions apply at the present moment and where is your guarantee that they ever will?

    Thankfully there are those, yes a few still exist on JUB, who approach this subject from the direction it should be; that of an ethical and moral wrong.

    And here is the the substance of the discussion that I believe has agitated the majority of people participating here:

    Quote Originally Posted by MysteryLovesCompany View Post
    ....................... This has nothing to do with sexual morale and everything to do with you not being able to defend your behavior beyond accusing the rest of us of puritanism.
    .................................................. ...
    Because obviously the majority of us feel that it is undefendable.
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  24. #124
    The nice guy from Nice. dpnice's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    I am still uncertain whether I have the right to be judgemental when someone has followed where their emotional and physical needs have led them.

    For those of you whose only argument against a three-way bisexual relationship is to shower with insults someone trying to explain their thoughts on the subject I would suggest that you need to rethink your attitudes and their expression on an Internet forum.

    The many comments based on hypothetical suppositions seems to distance us from the underlying moral conviction that this is wrong. Formulating an argument based on "what if" seems completely senseless, in my opinion. None of the proposed suppositions apply at the present moment and where is your guarantee that they ever will?

    Thankfully there are those, yes a few still exist on JUB, who approach this subject from the direction it should be; that of an ethical and moral wrong.

    And here is the the substance of the discussion that I believe has agitated the majority of people participating here:

    Quote Originally Posted by MysteryLovesCompany View Post
    ....................... This has nothing to do with sexual morale and everything to do with you not being able to defend your behavior beyond accusing the rest of us of puritanism.
    .................................................. ...
    Because obviously the majority of us feel that it is undefendable.
    http://justusboys.com/forum/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=72786&dateline=115443  2352

  25. #125
    The Reigns Begin. MoufOfKhaos's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by cgymike View Post
    Do you honestly think a bi person can maintain monogamy with someone of the same sex for the long haul? "Oh no sweety, I don't need a woman now that I've met you. You are a woman and a man for me enough!"

    Ya right!
    Yes I do.

    In the same way I believe a man can be monogamous even though people seem to think men are predestined to be whores because they're supposed to "spread their seed" or some ridiculous theory like that. Some of you are being completely moronic to think that bi men HAVE to have both, while gay men can settle for one.
    "Miscalculation of our strength their bane,

    Take us lightly and we'll make you pay..."

  26. #126
    Dejavudoo
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by mbamike View Post
    Here is your answer.
    Wishful thinking based on selective hearing. My answer was complete, more complex, and supported with examples. You merely focused on the honesty of my admission that social disapproval has no real authority to affect immoral behavior. And that is a good thing, but it doesn't nullify the bona fide argument that society is in fact made from many things, of which one is a generally unified ethos and morality. It doesn't have to monolithic or totalitarian, but it can hardly be deemed oppressive for a people to value honesty in marriage commitments.

    In the past week on JUB, we have entertained proponents of physical violence as political expression, advocates of cemetery desecration, and now the defenders of adultery and lying. Thankfully, those extremes do not represent a significant percentage of gay men or their views. Like many internet arguments, anonymous posters advocate positions that would never be acceptable in real communities with real people in them.

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    Your assumption is drawn from your belief that human relationships must fit in with your understandings how intimate relationships should function when human nature does not evidence such "values" universally accepted, or practised for human life has its way of making exceptions which relate to the individual nature of the human being choosing to do their own thing contrary to the accepted values of society.
    Universally accepted is actually a good description for the virtue of honesty in marriage. Many societies today may not have models for three-way relationships, but most of them certainly recognize the difference between an open marriage and one that is only pretending to be monogamous (with a baby on the way, no less). I doubt so many JUB members have a problem with an open marriage if the wife is able to be that accepting, but most obviously have a problem with her acceptance being an involuntary act on her part. It almost seems the equivalent of embezzlement: "I took the money from the old lady's account, but she would have given it to me if she were still in her right mind." Isn't that a convenient logic?

    The United States is a puritanical society founded upon principles that speak of liberty whilst one quarter of its population with black skins were enslaved...here lies the deception and the hypocrisy.
    Well, that's a bit convenient, now isn't it. At once you are implying that the disapproval of infidelity is exclusive to America, and that we have some sort of lock on inconsistency with professed virtues versus reality. France is only one easy example of a country that is hardly puritanical but has "enjoyed" recent scandals in the presidency concerning adultery and dishonesty. There wouldn't be all those outraged Frenchmen if America were alone in some sort of throwback status among the West. As for freedom, France has been seen as progressive while still keeping colonies until quite late in the game, far later than America kept slaves.

    As for Greece, you have your own little history with Armenia and genocide. Then there is the current less-than-exemplary state of LGBT rights in Greece. The U.S. has over a dozen states that now recognize gay marriages, whereas Greece has annulled the ones conducted by a lone mayor. The American reforms treat gays an lesbians equally, whereas the Greek laws omit any reference to lesbians at all except in one minor ordnance. The federal courts have just approved federal recognition of same-sex marriage rights in law, whereas Greece denies the same protection.

    I'm not in the business of bashing your country or any other, but this trite swill of "Americans are still out there having witch trials" is both a falsehood and a red herring.

    The question in play here is whether a man has the moral right to deceive his life partner with an affair that might well be a betrayal of her emotional trust, her legal rights, and a reasonable expectation of his position as a role model for his soon-to-be-born child.

    Kallipolis, you are a venerable, respected, and welcome member of the forum here, but that doesn't mean any position is to be accepted or go unchallenged. The legitimate question has been put to you but not answered. What makes your partner's deception acceptable? What makes it any different than "if my wife KNEW I were actually stealing money rather than going out to my job each day, it would only worry her needlessly. Income is income. It shouldn't matter to her. I can't be bound by antiquated social constructs that expect everyone to be slaves to labor. I'm a liberated soul."

    Equivocation.

    Quote Originally Posted by dpnice View Post
    I am still uncertain whether I have the right to be judgmental when someone has followed where their emotional and physical needs have led them.
    There are many illegitimate expressions of one's emotional and physical needs. Does the man who needs to beat his partner have exemption from your judgment? To be consistent with the case in point, that partner needs to not give consent just as the deceived wife here is not a consenting member.

    Some people are emotionally fragile to the point that they choose drug addiction. Their emotional and physical needs lead them to a life that ends up in unemployment, theft, and deceit. Is that to be exempt from our judging? So what if they spend their children's food stamps and welfare and the pantry goes bare.

    The many comments based on hypothetical suppositions seems to distance us from the underlying moral conviction that this is wrong.
    See examples just above. They are not hypothetical, but actual.

    I repeat again, Kallipolis is a valued and welcome member of this forum, and his honesty is commendable if not his actual position on the topic.
    Last edited by Dejavudoo; July 21st, 2013 at 04:49 AM.

  27. #127
    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by blackbeltninja View Post
    Were I you, Kallipolis, I would back out of this thread now. You're already at rock bottom; no sense in breaking out the power tools.

    -d-
    Control freaks are always welcome to make their opinions felt.

  28. #128
    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by dpnice View Post

    I am still uncertain whether I have the right to be judgemental when someone has followed where their emotional and physical needs have led them.
    Here lies the truth....for the self righteous heterosexual person condemns the gay person for daring to be who we are... here we are in this thread..the successor of many similar threads over the years....evidencing gay men, judging other gay men for daring to live their life in accordance with their understandings...filled with supercilious, abusive comments that presume to know the secret to living a fulfilling life...when by their own admissions many are addicted to antidepressants and are living a lonely existence.

  29. #129
    Dejavudoo
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Your understandings still do not address why it is acceptable for your partner to deceive his wife. To simply dismiss her right to know something so fundamental to her relationship is simply self-serving.

    WHY is it acceptable for you to know of his relationship with her, but not the reverse?

    The virtue of honesty in is hardly a "secret" when it comes to relationships.

    And the generalization that your detractors are mostly frigid cows on pills is a bit convenient, isn't it? Gee, and we were worried about the stereotypes from the Right.
    Last edited by Dejavudoo; July 21st, 2013 at 04:56 AM.

  30. #130
    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dejavudoo View Post


    The question in play here is whether a man has the moral right to deceive his life partner with an affair that might well be a betrayal of her emotional trust, her legal rights, and a reasonable expectation of his position as a role model for his soon-to-be-born child.
    You will note that I have excised the moralising, rather overdone but it's Sunday, and sermons are popular

    In your question there is a presumption that intimate relationships, such as marriage should be monogamous and whether an extra-marital affair is betrayal of marriage....most of us approach this question from the perspective of the Christian ethos....which pre-supposes that all intimate relationships should be restricted to two people....this where the social constructs of society fashions our understandings sufficiently that even today very many gay men feel guilty for being who they are...evidenced in admissions across these forums...further society just fifty years ago society was imprisoning gay men for daring to enter into sexual relationships with other men...for such behaviour was judged unnatural, perverse and immoral for "queers" were evidence of hedonistic behaviour that threatened the very foundations of a healthy society.....imagine, today gays are this forum are judging and condemning complete strangers for daring to engage in relationships that create happiness and joy in the life of those of us who are being honest with who we are.
    Last edited by kallipolis; July 21st, 2013 at 05:06 AM.

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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dejavudoo View Post
    Your understandings still do not address why it is acceptable for your partner to deceive his wife. To simply dismiss her right to know something so fundamental to her relationship is simply self-serving.

    WHY is it acceptable for you to know of his relationship with her, but not the reverse?

    The virtue of honesty in is hardly a "secret" when it comes to relationships.

    And the generalization that your detractors are mostly frigid cows on pills is a bit convenient, isn't it? Gee, and we were worried about the stereotypes from the Right.
    It's your perception that the matter is one of deception....not mine...and I live my life...according to my best understandings....not yours

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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    It is crystal clear that perceptions moulded from society's constructs, rather than from personal experience fashions idealistic dreams of monogamous relationships that society evidences just do not survive the realities of everyday life, for the divorce rate in most developed countries is about 1 in 2 with further evidence that married partners are easily drawn into short sexually exciting affairs countering the boredom that they experience with their married partner.

  33. #133
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Excising morality is rather convenient, isn't it? Literally, there can be no onus on us to ever act with regard to others. If we are always and absolutely the only arbiter of right, we can never do wrong.

    And you and your partner are all too willing to exploit those perceived constructs that the rest of us allegedly delude ourselves with. He is in a marriage, which is a committed relationship, presumably exclusive if traditional vows were exchanged. Even if your partner's marriage only had legal implications for purposes of inheritance, etc., your ongoing relationship poses a legal threat to his wife's standing. There is simply no brushing away of the fact that your partner chose to enter into a marriage which is more than simply being in a relationship with a woman. It has meaning.

    While railing against the "perceptions" that limit the rest of us, you are benefitting from the wife's adherence to her trust in such constructs, as is your partner with his child on the way.

    As for overdone moralizing, it seems that you are the one who invoked the reference to condemning Americans as Puritanical, but then ran from it when compelled to defend the preachiness of your own position. Or are sermons only sermons when they come at you, not from you?

    Yes, you DO get to live your life and relationship according to your own understandings, but you also get to defend them with logic when you post them in an online debate. Thus far, you haven't countered valid counterarguments, only poo-pooed criticisms with deflection.

    You don't get to redefine dishonesty. Find significant assent among reasonable men here that what your partner is doing is honest, either to himself or to his spouse. There are plenty of men here who eschew religious morality. Their opinion of honesty should be untainted by Puritanical zeal. Find such agreement and I'll believe you are doing anything beyond equivocating.

    It can't be Kallipolis against the world: you can't be the only enlightened one here concerning honesty.
    Last edited by Dejavudoo; July 21st, 2013 at 05:35 AM.

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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dejavudoo View Post
    Excising morality is rather convenient, isn't it? Literally, there can be no onus on us to ever act with regard to others. If we are always and absolutely the only arbiter of right, we can never do wrong.
    Attempting to fit into the perceptions of others, or attempting to fit into demands that society imposes upon its citizens hardly recognises the individual nature of the human person, each of us different concerned to become true to our self rather, than attempt to be some one we are not simply to satisfy the demands of society, our family, friends, acquaintances etc.

    The truth will set us free...providing we live our life in celebration of who we are rather, than being who society expects us to be.

    On another thread we are celebrating the anticipated pardon of Alan Turing who committed suicide as a result of society attempting to change him into another person, who he knew himself not to be....by chemical castration....leading him to suicide as a result being convicted as a criminal...this was 1952...today, the mature human being understands that happiness, and fulfilment can only be developed by being true to who we are...

    You may well discover that there are committed atheists who are as religious in their moralising on sexual relationships, as are the most evangelical of religious practitioners who dictate how the rest of us should live our life...Puritanical judgements are not monopolised by church goers.
    Last edited by kallipolis; July 21st, 2013 at 05:44 AM.

  35. #135
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Are you then saying that happiness can be pursued and attained with no consideration given to honesty and accepted morality?

    Quote Originally Posted by dpnice View Post
    I am still uncertain whether I have the right to be judgemental when someone has followed where their emotional and physical needs have led them.
    .
    As soon as I reread this I knew I should have included a disclaimer. In every situation we believe to be morally wrong I believe that it is possible to apply different levels of judgement. Here I am judging a mutual emotional attachment between two persons and not applying my uncertainty to the myriad of moral wrongs one could cite as a counter argument.
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  36. #136
    Look, listen and rejoice oakpope's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    Here lies the truth....for the self righteous heterosexual person condemns the gay person for daring to be who we are... here we are in this thread..the successor of many similar threads over the years....evidencing gay men, judging other gay men for daring to live their life in accordance with their understandings...filled with supercilious, abusive comments that presume to know the secret to living a fulfilling life...when by their own admissions many are addicted to antidepressants and are living a lonely existence.
    You are missing entirely the point.
    Your lover cheats on his (pregnant) wife with your blessing.

    That's it.

    And that's morally wrong in my book.

    That's it.

    You can argue that your morality is different, but that would mean you are forfeiting your right to complain if ever a partner of yours cheat on you.
    Magna Veritas


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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    I have been so absorbed by this subject that I have slightly lost track of the thread's subject.

    Can any one produce a valid concensus on whether we would date a bi-guy or not?
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  38. #138
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    ^That question definitely seems split to me. I have never dated a Bi guy before. But I am not opposed to it myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by oakpope View Post
    You are missing entirely the point.
    Your lover cheats on his (pregnant) wife with your blessing.

    That's it.

    And that's morally wrong in my book.

    That's it.

    You can argue that your morality is different, but that would mean you are forfeiting your right to complain if ever a partner of yours cheat on you.
    Exactly!!

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    It's your perception that the matter is one of deception....not mine...and I live my life...according to my best understandings....not yours
    Just because you cannot or will not perceive it, it doesn't mean that it is not deception.
    Deception: the act of deceiving.
    Deceiving: to cause to accept as true or valid what is false or invalid. (Per my trusty Merriam-Webster)

    So if your partners wife is believing she is in a monogamous relationship, by him not telling her, he is causing her to believe in a false truth. Which by definition is deceiving.
    Last edited by vater292; July 21st, 2013 at 06:16 AM.

  39. #139
    JUB Addict The Fly's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    NO I would not date a Bi-sexual.
    Not because of a fear of them cheating, I don't believe being bi-sexual makes someone more prone to dishonesty.
    Not because "they're really gay and just won't admit it", if someone says they're Bi I assume they know better than I about their orientation.
    The reason I wouldn't date a Bi-sexual is I believe a persons sexual identity is such a deep part of an individuals self. I can not wrap my head around the fact (and I accept it as fact) that someone can be attracted sexually to either gender.
    The fact that I will never be able to understand the why's and how's of a bi-sexuals orientation is a emotional roadblock to me.

  40. #140
    JUB Addict JohnnyAnger's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    kallipolis - if you really live this enlightened, free existence, with no consideration for others at all then I am sure your partner shares some ideals pretty similar to you. I am sure if he does, his wife will also be similar. Therefore you may as well tell her as she won't care at all, but being open with her will probably bring you all closer together.
    I don't moralise on any relationship when consent is given by all parties involved, but you continually and actively support the lying to this women.

    Also please drop the attempts to sound clever, you come off as quite condescending and actually stupid, which I don't imagine you are.

  41. #141
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyAnger View Post
    kallipolis - if you really live this enlightened, free existence, with no consideration for others at all then I am sure your partner shares some ideals pretty similar to you. I am sure if he does, his wife will also be similar. Therefore you may as well tell her as she won't care at all, but being open with her will probably bring you all closer together.
    I don't moralise on any relationship when consent is given by all parties involved, but you continually and actively support the lying to this women.
    Surely she will not fly into a rage or wither in despair at being deceived about something that is only natural and proper. Surely she will join in the mockery of our provincial, culturally-biased views, and celebrate her husband's dalliances. Maybe she will even want to watch. Maybe she will even apply the lube.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  42. #142
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by blackbeltninja View Post
    Hang on.

    Your partner is married. Did he do the traditional vows, the "forsaking all others" part? If he did, he's in the wrong - he promised to be faithful, and now he's cheating because it's without his wife's consent. If they don't believe in this part, they should have asked the priest to leave it out. If it was left in, well... he's out of luck.
    -d-
    Surely they didn't fall into that trap of hypocritical, puritanical, judeo-christian nonsense when they got married. Surely they were able to surpass moribund social conventions of monogamy when they made their vows to each other.

    Surely they rejected "conventional social wisdom" in recognition of their innate desires. Surely their vows included "love, honour, cherish, and fuck someone else when you don't feel like it, or when I do."

    I am convinced they would have added "And in recognition of the History of Slavery in the Americas, we vow to have at least one solemn Three-Way of Remembrance every year, on what the Americans call "Martin Luther King Day."
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  43. #143
    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by dpnice View Post
    Are you then saying that happiness can be pursued and attained with no consideration given to honesty and accepted morality?



    As soon as I reread this I knew I should have included a disclaimer. In every situation we believe to be morally wrong I believe that it is possible to apply different levels of judgement. Here I am judging a mutual emotional attachment between two persons and not applying my uncertainty to the myriad of moral wrongs one could cite as a counter argument.
    Were my relationship with Vassilios to impact negatively on his marriage then I would be faced with a moral dilemma, that of damaging his marriage.... in reality my relationship with Vassilios is a guarantee that his marriage will prosper for I am encouraging him to remain devoted to his wife knowing that our relationship addresses his need to also relate sexually with men as well as with women something that cannot be understood or appreciated by those who are not bisexual for want of living this experience.

    Moral judgements are often viewed through the prism of our cultural influences and here we face the inevitable intrusion of the puritan state of mind that views relationships in black and white terms that relate to monogamy being the foundation of a healthy loving relationship.

    Your responses indicate a level of maturity that recognises no two human beings are alike nor that human beings should fit into a preconceived mould simply to satisfy the demands of society....look where we gays were some sixty years ago when Alan Turing committed suicide as a result of being convicted of indecency simply for wanting to be true to who he was...a gay man....thankfully society's attitudes towards gays has changed radically over the past forty years in the United Kingdom....
    Last edited by kallipolis; July 21st, 2013 at 07:23 AM.

  44. #144
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyAnger View Post
    kallipolis - if you really live this enlightened, free existence, with no consideration for others .
    Your presumption is not my reality for my concerns do not stop with me.

  45. #145
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    Were my relationship with Vassilios to impact negatively on his marriage then I would be with a moral dilemma, that of damaging his marriage.... in reality my relationship with Vassilios is a guarantee that his marriage will prosper for I am encouraging him to remain devoted to his wife.

    Moral judgements are often viewed through the prism of our cultural influences and here we face the inevitable intrusion of the puritan state of mind that views relationships in black and white terms that relate to monogamy being the foundation of a healthy loving relationship.
    None of the moral positions in this thread are viewed through anything like a puritan fetish for monogamy.

    As people keep taking pains to explain to you - frustrating as it is to repeatedly hear a rebuttal to a point we've never made - it is not the arrangement itself, but the deception and lack of consent that is untenable.

    If you are guaranteeing the prosperity of his marriage - and hers - she should know about your "encouragement of his devotion" so she can properly thank you.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  46. #146
    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    Surely they didn't fall into that trap of hypocritical, puritanical, judeo-christian nonsense when they got married. Surely they were able to surpass moribund social conventions of monogamy when they made their vows to each other.

    Surely they rejected "conventional social wisdom" in recognition of their innate desires. Surely their vows included "love, honour, cherish, and fuck someone else when you don't feel like it, or when I do."

    I am convinced they would have added "And in recognition of the History of Slavery in the Americas, we vow to have at least one solemn Three-Way of Remembrance every year, on what the Americans call "Martin Luther King Day."
    Here lies your hypocrisy for you an evangelical atheist well known on these forums for advancing atheistic views are quoting conventional wisdom mediated through the prism of Christian morality to advance your puritanical understandings that you believe should be imposed on everyone ....as if it were your personal business to intervene in the intimate life of complete strangers.....representative of the more extreme manifestations of Christian self righteous finger pointing....some hypocrisy.

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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    None of the moral positions in this thread are viewed through anything like a puritan fetish for monogamy.

    As people keep taking pains to explain to you - frustrating as it is to repeatedly hear a rebuttal to a point we've never made - it is not the arrangement itself, but the deception and lack of consent that is untenable.

    If you are guaranteeing the prosperity of his marriage - and hers - she should know about your "encouragement of his devotion" so she can properly thank you.
    But they are for if I did not know you be a dedicated atheist freely advancing atheistic opinions on these forums, I would have understood you to be yet another holier than thou Christian evangelical assuming that they know better than others, how to live another's life...judgements we gays continue to face daily

  48. #148
    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    If you are guaranteeing the prosperity of his marriage - and hers - she should know about your "encouragement of his devotion" so she can properly thank you.[/B]
    Why...because you say so? That the wife is happy with her married life to Vassilios, and Vassilios is happy with his relationship with me, why should that bond of happiness be threatened by revealing that Vassilios is bisexual, and in relationship with a man? Would that revelation assist any one or is it just a matter of academic equilibrium. Do you really believe that in any married, or intimate relationship the partners reveal all their secrets to one another?

  49. #149
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    Here lies your hypocrisy for you an evangelical atheist well known on these forums for advancing atheistic views are quoting conventional wisdom mediated through the prism of Christian morality to advance your puritanical understandings that you believe should be imposed on everyone ....as if it were your personal business to intervene in the intimate life of complete strangers.....representative of the more extreme manifestations of Christian self righteous finger pointing....some hypocrisy.
    I see, for want of a reply to these points, you would rather debate atheism instead. Your confusion about my motives comes from your own mistaken assumption that all things come from Christ. When you have the understanding that human thinking about morality goes most likely as far back as antecedent species a million years ago, then you would be able to see that there are much deeper roots for my position than what you take to be "conventional wisdom." Atheist morality does not come from aping a puritanical conception of Christliness.

    So far the only intervention in the intimate life of a complete stranger is that which you have made your personal business by sleeping with someone else's husband without her consent. Intervention, or perhaps "insinuation in the intimate life of a complete stranger" is more applicable.
    Last edited by bankside; July 21st, 2013 at 07:42 AM.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  50. #150
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    Re: If you are gay, would you date a bisexual ?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fly View Post
    NO I would not date a Bi-sexual.
    Not because of a fear of them cheating, I don't believe being bi-sexual makes someone more prone to dishonesty.
    Not because "they're really gay and just won't admit it", if someone says they're Bi I assume they know better than I about their orientation.
    The reason I wouldn't date a Bi-sexual is I believe a persons sexual identity is such a deep part of an individuals self. I can not wrap my head around the fact (and I accept it as fact) that someone can be attracted sexually to either gender.
    The fact that I will never be able to understand the why's and how's of a bi-sexuals orientation is a emotional roadblock to me.
    This a rational response- minus the predictable condescending judgements - which I can appreciate for its attempt to represent your response to life's stimuli...what if you met a bisexual man who chose to remain silent on this issue....later revealing this fact....after a relationship had begun to flourish? Would you remain immovable on your beliefs or give a try just in case your earlier understandings might be influenced by a real life experience loving a man with a different sexual orientation from your own.

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