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Thread: Jimmy Carter about NSA

      
   
  1. #51
    JUB Addict cm98059's Avatar
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    Re: Jimmy Carter about NSA

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Then they would have simply made it illegal for the government to give any legal status whatsoever to entities large enough to be so intrusive.

    The thing is, corporations are given their powers by government. The government should not be allowed to hand out such power as today's corporations have.
    We have to remember, when the constitution was written, we didn't have the electronic age we are in now. Corporations were not considered to be people, and for the most part did not even exist yet. When it was written the largest business, in square footage, in a town might have been the livery stable. The town bank may have had the most employees, but it was owned by one person who ran the day to day operations. We did not have the megabanks and mega corporations that have grown since deregulation began in the 1980's. Remember when some of us were younger, there were a lot more banks and they were independently owned and operated.

  2. #52
    Sex God tigerfan482's Avatar
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    Re: Jimmy Carter about NSA

    Quote Originally Posted by cm98059 View Post
    We have to remember, when the constitution was written, we didn't have the electronic age we are in now. Corporations were not considered to be people, and for the most part did not even exist yet. When it was written the largest business, in square footage, in a town might have been the livery stable. The town bank may have had the most employees, but it was owned by one person who ran the day to day operations. We did not have the megabanks and mega corporations that have grown since deregulation began in the 1980's. Remember when some of us were younger, there were a lot more banks and they were independently owned and operated.
    In addition, one should also remember that when the Constitution was written, the idea of the states being a more driving force behind governance was that states and localities were where most people lived their whole lives. It took weeks/months to travel between places as opposed to hopping on a plane today and getting from one of the original thirteen colonies to another in a couple of hours. There weren't societal interdependencies that exist today. With today's modes of transportation, the relative ease of moving from one place to another, the national and international reach of business, etc., the ramifications of decisions made by states and localities are no longer isolated to the life long residents of those particular governing areas. This is why you're seeing a growing trend of the need for federal laws to protect the rights of citizens instead of relying on states to do so. A good example is marriage. If I work for a nationwide company and I marry my partner in Maryland and am then expected to move to South Carolina, my marriage would no longer be valid. Even if I was visiting South Carolina and I got hospitalized, my spouse wouldn't be able to necessarily make any decisions on my behalf due to the laws of that state versus the laws of my home state. This was simply not an issue that was faced when the Constitution was written given the time period in which it was written.

    I view the Constitution as one should properly view the Bible were that your particular religion. Given the vastly different times that each was written compared to today, the spirit and intention should be considered instead of the literal, word-for-word reading of it.

  3. #53
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    Re: Jimmy Carter about NSA

    Quote Originally Posted by cm98059 View Post
    We have to remember, when the constitution was written, we didn't have the electronic age we are in now. Corporations were not considered to be people, and for the most part did not even exist yet. When it was written the largest business, in square footage, in a town might have been the livery stable. The town bank may have had the most employees, but it was owned by one person who ran the day to day operations. We did not have the megabanks and mega corporations that have grown since deregulation began in the 1980's. Remember when some of us were younger, there were a lot more banks and they were independently owned and operated.
    But they had globe-spanning corporations, too, like the British East India Company and others -- recall that Great Britain came to rule India because companies essentially took it over but then insisted the government had to run it for them.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Jimmy Carter about NSA

    Mr. Carter's agendas (such as Israeli and Palestinian relations and now the NSA) are very confusing to me such that I am not sure how he thinks.

  5. #55
    JUB Addict cm98059's Avatar
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    Re: Jimmy Carter about NSA

    Quote Originally Posted by tigerfan482 View Post
    In addition, one should also remember that when the Constitution was written, the idea of the states being a more driving force behind governance was that states and localities were where most people lived their whole lives. It took weeks/months to travel between places as opposed to hopping on a plane today and getting from one of the original thirteen colonies to another in a couple of hours. There weren't societal interdependencies that exist today. With today's modes of transportation, the relative ease of moving from one place to another, the national and international reach of business, etc., the ramifications of decisions made by states and localities are no longer isolated to the life long residents of those particular governing areas. This is why you're seeing a growing trend of the need for federal laws to protect the rights of citizens instead of relying on states to do so. A good example is marriage. If I work for a nationwide company and I marry my partner in Maryland and am then expected to move to South Carolina, my marriage would no longer be valid. Even if I was visiting South Carolina and I got hospitalized, my spouse wouldn't be able to necessarily make any decisions on my behalf due to the laws of that state versus the laws of my home state. This was simply not an issue that was faced when the Constitution was written given the time period in which it was written.

    I view the Constitution as one should properly view the Bible were that your particular religion. Given the vastly different times that each was written compared to today, the spirit and intention should be considered instead of the literal, word-for-word reading of it.
    You are absolutely right. When the constitution was written, we did not have the mobility we have today. We can hop on a plane and fly from coast to coast in a day. They did not have that ability. A friend of mine is riding a bicycle across the country this summer and fall. He is figuring an average of thirty miles a day. I would suspect that in those days the number of miles covered in a day would be fewer, because my friend doesn't have to pack very many provisions since he will be passing a grocery store nearly every day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    But they had globe-spanning corporations, too, like the British East India Company and others -- recall that Great Britain came to rule India because companies essentially took it over but then insisted the government had to run it for them.
    Yes, but this was also a new concept then. The East India Companies were less than 100 years old, and it was already morphing in to a puppet government. So we d not know if the framers of the constitution saw this as a new form of business model, or did they see this as a way of planting a new government and taking over a country.

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    Re: Jimmy Carter about NSA

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    But they had globe-spanning corporations, too, like the British East India Company and others -- recall that Great Britain came to rule India because companies essentially took it over but then insisted the government had to run it for them.
    Oregon could have been a Canadian province bordering Mexico, because it had been part of the giant block of land spanning northern North America that belonged to the Hudson's Bay Company.

    A very powerful corporation indeed, however one that governments were evidently prepared to say "no" to. HBC found that its assets were easy come easy go….
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte.

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    Re: Jimmy Carter about NSA

    Quote Originally Posted by cm98059 View Post
    Yes, but this was also a new concept then. The East India Companies were less than 100 years old, and it was already morphing in to a puppet government. So we d not know if the framers of the constitution saw this as a new form of business model, or did they see this as a way of planting a new government and taking over a country.
    They did see such entities as dangerous, though, and that should be instructive for us.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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