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  1. #201
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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    It is a medically documented fact that Zimmerman's wounds were superficial. Not even close to being life-threatening.

    .
    We know now with the clarity of 20/20 hindsight. Zimmerman did not know that at the time, nor did he have time to consider all of the potential outcomes. He was under attack, and he reacted appropriately. End of story.

    Why don't we give him a medal for riding the world of a drug dealer and move on.

  2. #202
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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    Here you are, courtesy of the Urban Dictionary:

    http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...ting%20liberal


    Bedwetting Liberal is a derogatory term used to describe people of a political leaning. The term bedwetting is used to denote a hand-wringing, scared, worrisome, pansy attitude, afraid of their own shadows. The term liberal denotes the love of spending, social programs, handholding and acceptance of such things as illegal immigration and allowance of the same to have all of the social benefits of being in the United States.

    Bedwetting Liberals are generally terrified of Republicans and conservatives. They shriek at the thought of combat operations or allowing the police to do their jobs. They are quick to point fingers, cry to the media and ACLU, and snivel about attempts to maintain US heritage because it might “offend” somebody.
    So you're using what you know to be a derogatory term to personally attack a member of the forums?

    Quote Originally Posted by JustUsBoys CE&P Additional Posting Guidelines
    When debating, express your opinion about a person's ideas, not about them personally. Any post containing a direct personal insult will be removed or edited, regardless of the content of the rest of the post.

    Do not engage in baiting; either creating threads for that purpose, or in posts toward other members. Do not disrupt the flow of conversation by making statements or insinuations that are deliberately inflammatory or which expand a disagreement from one discussion to another.

    Never insult or impugn the character of another Jubber through posts, threads, PMs, or comments. If you find yourself having difficulty refraining from insulting, baiting or other negative impulses, please log off for a while to calm down.
    Sounds to me like you're having a difficult time following the rules. But seeing as how you're on Zimmerman's side, I can't say it's surprising.

  3. #203
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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    We know now with the clarity of 20/20 hindsight. Zimmerman did not know that at the time, nor did he have time to consider all of the potential outcomes. He was under attack, and he reacted appropriately. End of story.

    Why don't we give him a medal for riding the world of a drug dealer and move on.
    First off, where is any evidence Trayvon was a drug dealer? Or are you just making the assumption all black people that don't talk or act to your standards are drug dealers?

    Also, you've just illustrated what's wrong with Florida's self-defense/SYG laws. Allowing the person toting the gun the subjectivity of determining when they think their life is in danger is a flawed concept that will almost always result in the death of someone they set out to get. They just simply back someone into a corner and then fire at will when that person reacts to defend themselves. When a stranger is following you in a car then gets out, armed with a firearm, and begins pursuing you, there is plenty of cause to feel that you are being threatened with death or bodily harm. Thus, Trayvon should be justified in defending himself and Zimmerman should be found guilty with provoking the actions that led to him shooting Trayvon.

  4. #204
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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    Zimmerman's girlfriend obtained a restraining order against him, because of her fear that he would hurt her.

    Zimmerman had a prior arrest for assaulting a police officer.

    Zimmerman was fired from a job as a bouncer, because of his "anger issues."


    http://globalgrind.com/news/george-z...lorida-details

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/0...er-he-Snapped#

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.1053223


    Zimmerman is a sociopath. His pursuit of Trayvon Martin was a manifestation of that. You don't go chasing after teen-aged boys who are just passing through your neighborhood (especially when you have specifically been advised to back off) unless there is something deep inside you, driving you on.




    If you're going to argue on the basis of authority, you've just been trumped.

    I was the second-highest ranking law enforcement officer in the eighth largest county in Ohio for nine years. Not only did we not have a single case of abnormal death due to a fight not involving weapons during my tenure, I am not sure that it has ever happened in the county's 210 year history (I spent a lot of time reviewing our historical records for our annual reports). Nor have I ever heard of it happening, anywhere.

    I am sure it has happened somewhere, at some time. But it is extremely rare.

    If George Zimmerman had not been armed, both he and Trayvon Martin would still be alive.
    No i was speaking of the hundreds of returns found on google. Which county Butler or Scioto? I will go find a case for you since you appear unwilling.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
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  5. #205
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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    We know now with the clarity of 20/20 hindsight. Zimmerman did not know that at the time, nor did he have time to consider all of the potential outcomes. He was under attack, and he reacted appropriately. End of story.

    Why don't we give him a medal for riding the world of a drug dealer and move on.
    The original Henry Reardon had respect for the truth.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  6. #206
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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by tigerfan482 View Post
    Also, you've just illustrated what's wrong with Florida's self-defense/SYG laws. Allowing the person toting the gun the subjectivity of determining when they think their life is in danger is a flawed concept that will almost always result in the death of someone they set out to get. They just simply back someone into a corner and then fire at will when that person reacts to defend themselves. When a stranger is following you in a car then gets out, armed with a firearm, and begins pursuing you, there is plenty of cause to feel that you are being threatened with death or bodily harm. Thus, Trayvon should be justified in defending himself and Zimmerman should be found guilty with provoking the actions that led to him shooting Trayvon.
    Exactly -- and that's what the legislative author of the law said was the way it was meant to be read.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by tigerfan482 View Post
    First off, where is any evidence Trayvon was a drug dealer? n.
    His facebook page had comments from customers complimenting on the quality of his product.

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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    His facebook page had comments from customers complimenting on the quality of his product.
    Some might suspect that if you're familiar with his facebook page, you were one of his customers.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  9. #209
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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by tigerfan482 View Post
    First off, where is any evidence Trayvon was a drug dealer? Or are you just making the assumption all black people that don't talk or act to your standards are drug dealers?

    Also, you've just illustrated what's wrong with Florida's self-defense/SYG laws. Allowing the person toting the gun the subjectivity of determining when they think their life is in danger is a flawed concept that will almost always result in the death of someone they set out to get. They just simply back someone into a corner and then fire at will when that person reacts to defend themselves. When a stranger is following you in a car then gets out, armed with a firearm, and begins pursuing you, there is plenty of cause to feel that you are being threatened with death or bodily harm. Thus, Trayvon should be justified in defending himself and Zimmerman should be found guilty with provoking the actions that led to him shooting Trayvon.


    What makes you think Trayvon Knew Zimmerman was armed?

  10. #210
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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    His facebook page had comments from customers complimenting on the quality of his product.
    Link? Evidence? Anything to support your claim?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fly View Post
    What makes you think Trayvon Knew Zimmerman was armed?
    What makes you think he didn't? I will say that if someone is sitting on top of you "grounding and pounding", it's going to be difficult to unholster your weapon and fire one shot to the heart. I have the feeling that Zimmerman had his weapon unholstered before getting into any confrontation with Trayvon.

  11. #211
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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by tigerfan482 View Post
    Link? Evidence? Anything to support your claim?


    What makes you think he didn't? I will say that if someone is sitting on top of you "grounding and pounding", it's going to be difficult to unholster your weapon and fire one shot to the heart. I have the feeling that Zimmerman had his weapon unholstered before getting into any confrontation with Trayvon.
    I rather doubt it, it the gun was prominently displayed going into the fight, leaving aside being aware of it most likely would have caused Martin to avoid the fight, Martin's focus would have been on disarming him, not 'grounding and pounding' him. Of course its not possible to know what was going on in person's mind in a middle of a situation like that but if I knew the person I was grappling with had a gun, making sure it was pointed away from me and knocking it out of his hand would be a top panic filled priority.
    Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule - and both commonly succeed, and are right. H. L. Mencken US editor (1880 - 1956)

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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by Stardreamer View Post
    I rather doubt it, it the gun was prominently displayed going into the fight, leaving aside being aware of it most likely would have caused Martin to avoid the fight, Martin's focus would have been on disarming him, not 'grounding and pounding' him. Of course its not possible to know what was going on in person's mind in a middle of a situation like that but if I knew the person I was grappling with had a gun, making sure it was pointed away from me and knocking it out of his hand would be a top panic filled priority.
    Do we know that Trayvon wasn't trying to knock the gun away? If we go with Zimmerman's story, he at least had knowledge of the gun because Zimmerman claimed he was reaching for it.

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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by tigerfan482 View Post
    Link? Evidence? Anything to support your claim?


    What makes you think he didn't? I will say that if someone is sitting on top of you "grounding and pounding", it's going to be difficult to unholster your weapon and fire one shot to the heart. I have the feeling that Zimmerman had his weapon unholstered before getting into any confrontation with Trayvon.


    What does that mean, you "have a feeling"? Based on what?

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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Lazy reading is lazy. He has explained what it's based on in the very post you've quoted. Hard to pull a gun out and take one clear shot when you're being mercilessly pounded by an evil animalistic black crack-head thug...
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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  15. #215
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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Taken from the hidden works of Shakespeare himself.
    the jub racists are here to stay,

    sucking dick and hating blacks it's the only way.

    even though I'll never understand their ignorant view,

    they take it up the ass and can't understand they are a hated minority too.

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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by tigerfan482 View Post
    Link? Evidence? Anything to support your claim?


    .
    Asked and answered, as Perry Mason might say.

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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    We know now with the clarity of 20/20 hindsight. Zimmerman did not know that at the time, nor did he have time to consider all of the potential outcomes. He was under attack, and he reacted appropriately. End of story.
    In other words, if you start a fight and begin to lose that fight, it's okay to murder the person you attacked. Zimmerman "did not have time to consider" the consequences of what he started, so he is absolved of responsibility for killing another human being? In other words, if you are an idiot, you're allowed to murder people because you just didn't have the time (or intelligence) to understand what you were doing?

    Zimmerman most emphatically did NOT "react appropriately." He killed another man to compensate for his embarrassment for his own failures as a human being. That isn't merely inappropriate - it's disgusting.


    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    Why don't we give him a medal for riding the world of a drug dealer and move on.
    You are claiming now that Trayvon Martin was a drug dealer? Did George Zimmerman murder Trayvon Martin because he believed Trayvon Martin was dealing drugs? Is it acceptable for neighborhood watch people to murder anyone they believe might be dealing drugs? You visit gay port sites. Does that mean it is okay to murder you?

    I would not give a medal to a man who murdered another man because of his own insecurities and failures as a human being. Zimmerman is a sociopath who got away with murder because it is legal in Florida for white people to kill anyone they find unacceptable in their neighborhoods. I am not clear why that is so acceptable to you.
    Last edited by T-Rexx; July 19th, 2013 at 03:58 AM.

  18. #218
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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    Asked and answered, as Perry Mason might say.
    Well on HenryReardon's Facebook page, he said that Trayvon actually wasn't a drug dealer and that he was making the whole argument up because he was a racist. Point proven!

  19. #219

    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Z. saw a suspicious looking character in the neighborhood and followed him. TM say him and called him a "creepy ass Cracker". But his girl friend suggested Z might be a "gay rapist" following M home to his little brother. M confronted and physically attacked the suspected gay rapist and had him on the ground pounding him. His suspicions confirmed and fearing for his very life, Z pulled out a firearm and fired.

  20. #220
    JUB Addict T-Rexx's Avatar
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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by tigerfan482 View Post
    Well on HenryReardon's Facebook page, he said that Trayvon actually wasn't a drug dealer and that he was making the whole argument up because he was a racist. Point proven!
    Trayvon Martin was NOT a drug dealer.

    But even if he had been, why would that make it okay for George Zimmerman to kill him just because he was walking through his neighborhood?

    These arguments are beyond stupid.

    Republicans often try to turn victims into demons. They do that because the truth does not support their ideology very well. So, the truth must be denied in favor of a Republican fantasy world.

  21. #221
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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Robert Zimmerman is the only one who has admitted his homosexuality. We all know George is a friend of Dorothy with his homo ass.
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    JUB Addict The Fly's Avatar
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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    The entire event could have been avoided if Martin had just kept going once he lost Zimmerman. When Martin backtracked and initiated the physical assault, Zimmerman had every right to self preservation.
    No where is the law is there legal justification for physically attacking someone for following you.

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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    No i was speaking of the hundreds of returns found on google. Which county Butler or Scioto? I will go find a case for you since you appear unwilling.
    Butler.

    And I am not unwilling. I can't offer you an example because it just doesn't happen.

    Find me a single case of homicide committed without a weapon (other than fists) as a result of a street fight in Ohio in the last ten years.

    It is quite rare. There are certainly examples. The case of George Huguely V beating his girlfriend to death in Virginia in 2012 comes to mind, but it is unusual. What cases you might find are generally children beaten by adults, or girlfriends beaten by boyfriends. But those are cases of domestic violence, not street fights. Zimmerman is not a child, and was not involved in a relationship with his attacker. It is almost unheard of to die under such circumstances.

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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fly View Post
    The entire event could have been avoided if Martin had just kept going once he lost Zimmerman. When Martin backtracked and initiated the physical assault, Zimmerman had every right to self preservation.
    No where is the law is there legal justification for physically attacking someone for following you.
    How do you know that Martin "backtracked?"

    Why do you say that Martin "initiated the physical assault.?"

    The sum total of what we know is that Zimmerman took his gun and went after Martin, against police advice. And why does the attacker have "every right to self preservation" in your world, while the victim does not?

  25. #225

    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    Butler.

    And I am not unwilling. I can't offer you an example because it just doesn't happen.

    Find me a single case of homicide committed without a weapon (other than fists) as a result of a street fight in Ohio in the last ten years.

    It is quite rare. There are certainly examples. The case of George Huguely V beating his girlfriend to death in Virginia in 2012 comes to mind, but it is unusual. What cases you might find are generally children beaten by adults, or girlfriends beaten by boyfriends. But those are cases of domestic violence, not street fights. Zimmerman is not a child, and was not involved in a relationship with his attacker. It is almost unheard of to die under such circumstances.
    But once you are on your back, with some one sitting on you and pounding your head against the concrete, your likihood of being killed or seriously injured increases dramatically. I guess he just was not informed of the statistics showing what percentage of head to concrete poundings result in death or serious injury.
    No doubt if he had known the statistics favored his survival, he would have just laid there and allowed himself to be pounded-- the politically correct thing to do.
    Last edited by Benvolio; July 19th, 2013 at 07:54 AM.

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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    How do you know that Martin "backtracked?"

    Why do you say that Martin "initiated the physical assault.?"

    The sum total of what we know is that Zimmerman took his gun and went after Martin, against police advice. And why does the attacker have "every right to self preservation" in your world, while the victim does not?

    Zimmerman was following Martin, lost sight of Martin, then Martin showed up behind him.

    When Martin came out of the dark he said (according to Zimmerman) "What's your problem?", Zimmerman replied "I don't have a problem", Martin said "you do now" and struck Zimmerman in the face. That was the point of physical contact. That's an unjustified attack.
    What facts do you have that the prosecution did not? Zimmerman was not the attacker, he followed Martin. There's no evidence what so ever that points to Zimmerman as the attacker. Following is not attacking, nor is it illegal. Physically assaulting someone is against the law.

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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by Stardreamer View Post
    Just to clarify for me, are you suggesting that the principle of innocent until PROVEN guilty does not apply in cases where lethal force is involved? Not trying to put words in your mouth just trying to be clear on your point.
    To be clear on my belief. 'Innocent until proven guilty' is like the comment Kuli brought up, 'better a thousand guilty walk free than one innocent be punished'. It is great philosophy for ensuring a fair justice system. Like Kuli's philosophical point, where it cannot possibly be literally better that a thousand guilty walk free, because we could arguably claim that punishing nobody would work the best in protecting the wrongly convicted, the 'innocent until proven guilty' philosophy can also neither be literally true. This is because innocent or guilt exists always. it doesn't need a trial to prove, it is society that needs a trial to prove, so that we can rest easy knowing justice has been done, and that hopefully we have excused the innocent and held the guilty to account. There is always tragedy when either of those things don't happen, and when that tragedy happens to involve the loss of somebody's life, i think it DEMANDS that we seek to ensure that we get justice. In order to do that, we need to make things as least obscure as possible, so that we can ask the relevant questions and make reasonable judgements, rather than unreasonable judgement of SYG that tries to define your right to kill in defence, when that right NEVER needs defining, because reasonable people don't need laws to help them determine whether the taking of life was justified or not, its the circumstances that tell, and reasonable people are too able to understand and accept that. SYG does the opposite of that. It allows people the viable choice of starting a fight with their intended victim, to provide them the escape from justice by claiming self defence, safe in the knowledge that so long as they do it passively, or ensure there are no witnesses close by, it cannot be proven that they were the aggressor. This makes the supposed safety clause in the legislation almost completely useless, it will help catch the dumb ones, but the smart ones, the ones that calculate to a tea, the ones that may be studying criminal law, oh, Zimmerman was doing that was he, that's interesting. You get my drift?

    The UK doesn't have SYG laws, we don't need them any more than you do. The only difference is that the UK has the option to protect the public by minimising the risks. Its not easy to get shot dead here, and its even harder to shoot someone dead and claim self defence. The US gun pushers created this law to try and protect those who use guns on other people in self defence without having to worry about whether their actions were necessary, reasonable, moderated whatever. All the things that WOULD naturally exist in a genuine case of someone NEEDING to kill in defence. This means that the law doesn't benefit the innocent even half as much as it benefits the guilty.
    If America went in the same direction as the rest of the developed world and sought to remove the bloody gun culture that is the underlying problem, there wouldn't be any calls for needing guns, and then for needing to carry them around, and then needing a law to protect you if you shoot someone etc etc etc etc.

    If you want to discuss anything further, then PM me.
    Having seen some of the latest posts since i last was on, i'm done with this thread. I really can't stand obnoxious, and gee has a bucket full of it hit this thread of late.

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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fly View Post
    Zimmerman was following Martin, lost sight of Martin, then Martin showed up behind him.

    When Martin came out of the dark he said (according to Zimmerman) "What's your problem?", Zimmerman replied "I don't have a problem", Martin said "you do now" and struck Zimmerman in the face. That was the point of physical contact. That's an unjustified attack.
    What facts do you have that the prosecution did not? Zimmerman was not the attacker, he followed Martin. There's no evidence what so ever that points to Zimmerman as the attacker. Following is not attacking, nor is it illegal. Physically assaulting someone is against the law.

    The point is that all we have is Zimmerman's story (and even that is indirect, since Zimmerman never testified).

    Trayvon Martin is dead.

    What we know is that Zimmerman took a gun, pursued Martin, and killed him.

    Under stand your ground, Zimmerman is blameless, because the other guy is dead. If Trayvon Martin had been carrying a gun, he could have shot Zimmerman dead when Zimmerman began following him. Martin would have had ample reason to feel threatened by a creep who was chasing after him. Either man could have killed the other because they were suspicious of each other, and that's okay with the state of Florida.

    SYG in Florida is a license to murder anyone you find suspicious. It encourages confrontation and the escalation of violence between people. It is a spectacularly stupid law.
    Last edited by T-Rexx; July 19th, 2013 at 11:18 AM.

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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    But once you are on your back, with some one sitting on you and pounding your head against the concrete, your likihood of being killed or seriously injured increases dramatically.
    No, actually, it doesn't.

    It is quite difficult to kill someone (especially an adult) using only your body parts. And when it does happen, it is usually a crime of passion (a consequence of extreme emotion between people who know each other). It is unusual for stranger combatants without weapons to remain engaged long enough to do serious damage to each other. The emotion wears off; or some third party intervenes.

    If George Zimmerman had not owned a gun, both he an Trayvon Martin would still be alive.


    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    I guess he just was not informed of the statistics showing what percentage of head to concrete poundings result in death or serious injury. No doubt if he had known the statistics favored his survival, he would have just laid there and allowed himself to be pounded-- the politically correct thing to do.
    Why would Zimmerman need to know the statistics, in order to survive?

    If Zimmerman had not owned a gun, both he and Trayvon Martin would be alive today.

    Zimmerman provoked a confrontation, and escalated the violence of that confrontation by bringing a gun into the conflict. He did this even after he was specifically advised not to do so by the police. And yet, somehow, under Florida law, he bears no responsibility for this.

    Stand your ground in Florida is doing exactly what it was designed to do - protecting gun owners from liability for using their weapons irresponsibly. If Zimmerman had accidentally killed Trayvon Martin, he would have been liable for his behavior. However, because Zimmerman deliberately killed Martin, he is blameless.

    Stand your ground is just unbelievably stupid.
    Last edited by T-Rexx; July 19th, 2013 at 11:58 AM.

  30. #230

    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    I do not see that "stand your ground" has anything to do with his case. Carrying a gun did. But I do not accept your claim that Z would not have been hurt by the pounding. Legally, under plain old fashioned self defense, once M escolated into serious violence, Z had the right to defend himself, and, if he reasonably belied he was in danger of death or serious injury, to use lethal force. It is intended to be an objective standard, that is, it is not enough that he subjectively believed he was in danger. The jury must determine whether an ordinary, reasonable, person in that position would have believed it.

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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    Butler.

    And I am not unwilling. I can't offer you an example because it just doesn't happen.

    Find me a single case of homicide committed without a weapon (other than fists) as a result of a street fight in Ohio in the last ten years.

    It is quite rare. There are certainly examples. The case of George Huguely V beating his girlfriend to death in Virginia in 2012 comes to mind, but it is unusual. What cases you might find are generally children beaten by adults, or girlfriends beaten by boyfriends. But those are cases of domestic violence, not street fights. Zimmerman is not a child, and was not involved in a relationship with his attacker. It is almost unheard of to die under such circumstances.
    Did you happen to click on the link I provided via google when we first started this conversation? It list hundreds of incidents where a person is punched and then generally speaking the punched victim falls onto a hard surface and either dies immediately or later due to brain hemorage.

    Without fist.... lol... first it was without guns. Can you make up your mind what the parameters of your argument are? I'll try to keep up.
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  32. #232

    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    I don't think we would want to follow the UK on these matters. I recall reading a couple of cases were people have been prosecuted for shooting nighttime invaders of there homes. It presents too great a danger to burglars, I guess.

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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    ^ Of course he had a right to defend himself.

    But, why did he pursue the victim in the first place? Why does he bear no responsibility for provocative behavior which resulted in the death of a human being?

    And, why is it legal in Florida to pursue and kill people you don't like?

    You righties defend vociferously the lives of the unborn. But, the lives of young black people don't seem to matter to you.

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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    Did you happen to click on the link I provided via google when we first started this conversation?
    What link would that be?


    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    Without fist.... lol... first it was without guns. Can you make up your mind what the parameters of your argument are? I'll try to keep up.
    The point has always been without weapons (unless you consider a "fist" a weapon). That is clearly stated. Weapons include guns, knives, baseball bats, garrots, etc.

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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    ^ Okay, I count six unique cases of people dying from punches in the last three years, worldwide (and in one of those, the victim's head was impaled on a fence, which is hardly a death resulting from impact with a body part - but I'll give it to you).

    And you think that makes it common?

    We average four murders per year in Butler County, alone. But some weapon is always involved. Always.
    Last edited by T-Rexx; July 19th, 2013 at 12:53 PM.

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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    You count six... so you tell me you reviewed all 41 thousand returns or you reviewed the first page?
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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    I do not see that "stand your ground" has anything to do with his case. Carrying a gun did. But I do not accept your claim that Z would not have been hurt by the pounding. Legally, under plain old fashioned self defense, once M escolated into serious violence, Z had the right to defend himself, and, if he reasonably belied he was in danger of death or serious injury, to use lethal force. It is intended to be an objective standard, that is, it is not enough that he subjectively believed he was in danger. The jury must determine whether an ordinary, reasonable, person in that position would have believed it.
    Considering how superficial his wounds were, "pounding" is a misleading term. Also, Trayvon perceived danger and was self-defending. The law gives him the right.
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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    You righties defend vociferously the lives of the unborn. But, the lives of young black people don't seem to matter to you.
    That's cause they're all crack-head thugs trying to steal jobs from good Christian "traditional" Americans!
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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Considering how superficial his wounds were, "pounding" is a misleading term. Also, Trayvon perceived danger and was self-defending. The law gives him the right.


    Where in the law are you allowed to physically strike someone for following you? The law does not give anyone that right.

  41. #241

    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Considering how superficial his wounds were, "pounding" is a misleading term. Also, Trayvon perceived danger and was self-defending. The law gives him the right.
    Z was the one on trial. The jury found that he acted in self defense.
    The argument that Z might not have been injured in the fight or that people are seldom killed in such fights are irrelevant. The question is, what would a reasonable person think and what did he think? The ordinary, reasonable person would have, the jury found, believed that his life was in danger, which is inconsistent with your opinion and, perhaps with your statics.
    Last edited by opinterph; July 19th, 2013 at 03:04 PM. Reason: fixed quote tags

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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fly View Post
    Where in the law are you allowed to physically strike someone for following you? The law does not give anyone that right.
    Actually, SYG does. He perceived danger and chose his means of self-defense. The law doesn't allow for stalking people with harmful intent either, but there you have it.
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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Z was the one on trial. The jury found that he acted in self defense.
    The argument that Z might not have been injured in the fight or that people are seldom killed in such fights are irrelevant. The question is, what would a reasonable person think and what did he think? The ordinary, reasonable person would have, the jury found, believed that his life was in danger, which is inconsistent with your opinion and, perhaps with your statics.
    Of course he believed that. He already thought the kid was a danger to him before he even started following him. That's because he is a crazy trigger-happy lunatic with anger issues.
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  44. #244

    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    ^ Of course he had a right to defend himself.

    But, why did he pursue the victim in the first place? Why does he bear no responsibility for provocative behavior which resulted in the death of a human being?

    And, why is it legal in Florida to pursue and kill people you don't like?

    You righties defend vociferously the lives of the unborn. But, the lives of young black people don't seem to matter to you.
    Z thought that M was suspicious and followed M, not pursued him. M thought Z was a gay rapist and attacked.
    Liberals see nothing wrong with the slaughter of Americans babies by the tens of millions, many of whom are Black, but get excited about one child and feel morally superior.

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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    That's because "liberals" (and thousands of Republican women) don't consider fetuses to be "babies", and therefore don't consider it a "slaughter". We don't accept your initial premise and therefore your moral judgment is irrelevant.

    As for Zimmerman thinking Trayvon was suspicious, we all know he would not have thought that were Trayvon a white kid. And THIS is why people (not AT ALL just "liberals") got "excited" about the case, and why your attitude here is repugnant.
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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Actually, SYG does. He perceived danger and chose his means of self-defense. The law doesn't allow for stalking people with harmful intent either, but there you have it.

    SYG had absolutely nothing to do with this trial. As to the "stalking people with harmful intent", he wasn't stalked, he was followed, and there's not one shred of evidence that points to intent, harmful or otherwise.

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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Well, being followed points STRONGLY to harmful intent. Also, why not stop circling and say what you actually think? You think he was "asking for it", right? That he was at fault and he got what he deserved. Be a man and say it directly.
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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Well, being followed points STRONGLY to harmful intent. Also, why not stop circling and say what you actually think? You think he was "asking for it", right? That he was at fault and he got what he deserved. Be a man and say it directly.
    Oh, no one here will say that, I'm sure. Not directly, anyway. People seem to think you actually have to say the slur nigger to be racist. Everything else is "just an opinion." Fortunately the rest of us think that if it quacks like a duck, has webbed feet, feathers and follows you home from the local pond in the hopes of bread, we know it's from the Anatidae family.

    I've just gotta say I've never been followed for several blocks and confronted by someone with good intent. Two were blatant fucking harassment and one was some guy trying to convince me for four blocks (literally coming out of nowhere) that we knew each other and "where do you live now/what's your number/where are you going". Ass was a good foot taller, bigger than I was and definitely older. He had an "I want buy you a drink and slip something in it without telling you" vibe. I'm not saying he looked creepy (they rarely do, they generally look like Joe Schmoe), but his behavior definitely was. Barely got out of that one, was cutting it close. Considering I looked like an underage teenager at the time, let alone female, yeah, fucking creepy. Zimmerman should've done nothing. Everyone who thinks being followed is perfectly reasonable is being willfully foolish and obviously have never been followed themselves. Though with that argument, I wouldn't rule out them following someone else.
    Last edited by luckynumbah7; July 19th, 2013 at 04:47 PM.
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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by tigerfan482 View Post
    Do we know that Trayvon wasn't trying to knock the gun away? If we go with Zimmerman's story, he at least had knowledge of the gun because Zimmerman claimed he was reaching for it.
    After the gun was exposed in the struggle, which also lends to it being unlikely the gun was drawn when the confrontation started.
    Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule - and both commonly succeed, and are right. H. L. Mencken US editor (1880 - 1956)

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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by Taralen View Post
    Robert Zimmerman is the only one who has admitted his homosexuality. We all know George is a friend of Dorothy with his homo ass.
    Robert Zimmerman is gay?

    WOW!

    I predicted it on here. I said I doubt a straight man would attack a boy that's dead (accusing Martin of being a drug dealer) only a woman would be that catty. Where's my post where I said that.

    I knew Robert Zimmerman was low in testoerone when he made those comments. He needs to man up. Times like these, I wish I wasn't gay.
    Last edited by Lostlover; July 19th, 2013 at 05:20 PM.
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