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  1. #201
    JUB Addict T-Rexx's Avatar
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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    We know now with the clarity of 20/20 hindsight. Zimmerman did not know that at the time, nor did he have time to consider all of the potential outcomes. He was under attack, and he reacted appropriately. End of story.
    In other words, if you start a fight and begin to lose that fight, it's okay to murder the person you attacked. Zimmerman "did not have time to consider" the consequences of what he started, so he is absolved of responsibility for killing another human being? In other words, if you are an idiot, you're allowed to murder people because you just didn't have the time (or intelligence) to understand what you were doing?

    Zimmerman most emphatically did NOT "react appropriately." He killed another man to compensate for his embarrassment for his own failures as a human being. That isn't merely inappropriate - it's disgusting.


    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    Why don't we give him a medal for riding the world of a drug dealer and move on.
    You are claiming now that Trayvon Martin was a drug dealer? Did George Zimmerman murder Trayvon Martin because he believed Trayvon Martin was dealing drugs? Is it acceptable for neighborhood watch people to murder anyone they believe might be dealing drugs? You visit gay port sites. Does that mean it is okay to murder you?

    I would not give a medal to a man who murdered another man because of his own insecurities and failures as a human being. Zimmerman is a sociopath who got away with murder because it is legal in Florida for white people to kill anyone they find unacceptable in their neighborhoods. I am not clear why that is so acceptable to you.
    Last edited by T-Rexx; July 19th, 2013 at 03:58 AM.

  2. #202
    Sex God tigerfan482's Avatar
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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    Asked and answered, as Perry Mason might say.
    Well on HenryReardon's Facebook page, he said that Trayvon actually wasn't a drug dealer and that he was making the whole argument up because he was a racist. Point proven!

  3. #203

    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Z. saw a suspicious looking character in the neighborhood and followed him. TM say him and called him a "creepy ass Cracker". But his girl friend suggested Z might be a "gay rapist" following M home to his little brother. M confronted and physically attacked the suspected gay rapist and had him on the ground pounding him. His suspicions confirmed and fearing for his very life, Z pulled out a firearm and fired.

  4. #204
    JUB Addict T-Rexx's Avatar
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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by tigerfan482 View Post
    Well on HenryReardon's Facebook page, he said that Trayvon actually wasn't a drug dealer and that he was making the whole argument up because he was a racist. Point proven!
    Trayvon Martin was NOT a drug dealer.

    But even if he had been, why would that make it okay for George Zimmerman to kill him just because he was walking through his neighborhood?

    These arguments are beyond stupid.

    Republicans often try to turn victims into demons. They do that because the truth does not support their ideology very well. So, the truth must be denied in favor of a Republican fantasy world.

  5. #205
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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Robert Zimmerman is the only one who has admitted his homosexuality. We all know George is a friend of Dorothy with his homo ass.
    Glass Half Empty, Glass Half Full
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  6. #206
    JUB Addict The Fly's Avatar
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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    The entire event could have been avoided if Martin had just kept going once he lost Zimmerman. When Martin backtracked and initiated the physical assault, Zimmerman had every right to self preservation.
    No where is the law is there legal justification for physically attacking someone for following you.

  7. #207
    JUB Addict T-Rexx's Avatar
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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    No i was speaking of the hundreds of returns found on google. Which county Butler or Scioto? I will go find a case for you since you appear unwilling.
    Butler.

    And I am not unwilling. I can't offer you an example because it just doesn't happen.

    Find me a single case of homicide committed without a weapon (other than fists) as a result of a street fight in Ohio in the last ten years.

    It is quite rare. There are certainly examples. The case of George Huguely V beating his girlfriend to death in Virginia in 2012 comes to mind, but it is unusual. What cases you might find are generally children beaten by adults, or girlfriends beaten by boyfriends. But those are cases of domestic violence, not street fights. Zimmerman is not a child, and was not involved in a relationship with his attacker. It is almost unheard of to die under such circumstances.

  8. #208
    JUB Addict T-Rexx's Avatar
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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fly View Post
    The entire event could have been avoided if Martin had just kept going once he lost Zimmerman. When Martin backtracked and initiated the physical assault, Zimmerman had every right to self preservation.
    No where is the law is there legal justification for physically attacking someone for following you.
    How do you know that Martin "backtracked?"

    Why do you say that Martin "initiated the physical assault.?"

    The sum total of what we know is that Zimmerman took his gun and went after Martin, against police advice. And why does the attacker have "every right to self preservation" in your world, while the victim does not?

  9. #209

    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    Butler.

    And I am not unwilling. I can't offer you an example because it just doesn't happen.

    Find me a single case of homicide committed without a weapon (other than fists) as a result of a street fight in Ohio in the last ten years.

    It is quite rare. There are certainly examples. The case of George Huguely V beating his girlfriend to death in Virginia in 2012 comes to mind, but it is unusual. What cases you might find are generally children beaten by adults, or girlfriends beaten by boyfriends. But those are cases of domestic violence, not street fights. Zimmerman is not a child, and was not involved in a relationship with his attacker. It is almost unheard of to die under such circumstances.
    But once you are on your back, with some one sitting on you and pounding your head against the concrete, your likihood of being killed or seriously injured increases dramatically. I guess he just was not informed of the statistics showing what percentage of head to concrete poundings result in death or serious injury.
    No doubt if he had known the statistics favored his survival, he would have just laid there and allowed himself to be pounded-- the politically correct thing to do.
    Last edited by Benvolio; July 19th, 2013 at 07:54 AM.

  10. #210
    JUB Addict The Fly's Avatar
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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    How do you know that Martin "backtracked?"

    Why do you say that Martin "initiated the physical assault.?"

    The sum total of what we know is that Zimmerman took his gun and went after Martin, against police advice. And why does the attacker have "every right to self preservation" in your world, while the victim does not?

    Zimmerman was following Martin, lost sight of Martin, then Martin showed up behind him.

    When Martin came out of the dark he said (according to Zimmerman) "What's your problem?", Zimmerman replied "I don't have a problem", Martin said "you do now" and struck Zimmerman in the face. That was the point of physical contact. That's an unjustified attack.
    What facts do you have that the prosecution did not? Zimmerman was not the attacker, he followed Martin. There's no evidence what so ever that points to Zimmerman as the attacker. Following is not attacking, nor is it illegal. Physically assaulting someone is against the law.

  11. #211
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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fly View Post
    Zimmerman was following Martin, lost sight of Martin, then Martin showed up behind him.

    When Martin came out of the dark he said (according to Zimmerman) "What's your problem?", Zimmerman replied "I don't have a problem", Martin said "you do now" and struck Zimmerman in the face. That was the point of physical contact. That's an unjustified attack.
    What facts do you have that the prosecution did not? Zimmerman was not the attacker, he followed Martin. There's no evidence what so ever that points to Zimmerman as the attacker. Following is not attacking, nor is it illegal. Physically assaulting someone is against the law.

    The point is that all we have is Zimmerman's story (and even that is indirect, since Zimmerman never testified).

    Trayvon Martin is dead.

    What we know is that Zimmerman took a gun, pursued Martin, and killed him.

    Under stand your ground, Zimmerman is blameless, because the other guy is dead. If Trayvon Martin had been carrying a gun, he could have shot Zimmerman dead when Zimmerman began following him. Martin would have had ample reason to feel threatened by a creep who was chasing after him. Either man could have killed the other because they were suspicious of each other, and that's okay with the state of Florida.

    SYG in Florida is a license to murder anyone you find suspicious. It encourages confrontation and the escalation of violence between people. It is a spectacularly stupid law.
    Last edited by T-Rexx; July 19th, 2013 at 11:18 AM.

  12. #212
    JUB Addict T-Rexx's Avatar
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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    But once you are on your back, with some one sitting on you and pounding your head against the concrete, your likihood of being killed or seriously injured increases dramatically.
    No, actually, it doesn't.

    It is quite difficult to kill someone (especially an adult) using only your body parts. And when it does happen, it is usually a crime of passion (a consequence of extreme emotion between people who know each other). It is unusual for stranger combatants without weapons to remain engaged long enough to do serious damage to each other. The emotion wears off; or some third party intervenes.

    If George Zimmerman had not owned a gun, both he an Trayvon Martin would still be alive.


    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    I guess he just was not informed of the statistics showing what percentage of head to concrete poundings result in death or serious injury. No doubt if he had known the statistics favored his survival, he would have just laid there and allowed himself to be pounded-- the politically correct thing to do.
    Why would Zimmerman need to know the statistics, in order to survive?

    If Zimmerman had not owned a gun, both he and Trayvon Martin would be alive today.

    Zimmerman provoked a confrontation, and escalated the violence of that confrontation by bringing a gun into the conflict. He did this even after he was specifically advised not to do so by the police. And yet, somehow, under Florida law, he bears no responsibility for this.

    Stand your ground in Florida is doing exactly what it was designed to do - protecting gun owners from liability for using their weapons irresponsibly. If Zimmerman had accidentally killed Trayvon Martin, he would have been liable for his behavior. However, because Zimmerman deliberately killed Martin, he is blameless.

    Stand your ground is just unbelievably stupid.
    Last edited by T-Rexx; July 19th, 2013 at 11:58 AM.

  13. #213

    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    I do not see that "stand your ground" has anything to do with his case. Carrying a gun did. But I do not accept your claim that Z would not have been hurt by the pounding. Legally, under plain old fashioned self defense, once M escolated into serious violence, Z had the right to defend himself, and, if he reasonably belied he was in danger of death or serious injury, to use lethal force. It is intended to be an objective standard, that is, it is not enough that he subjectively believed he was in danger. The jury must determine whether an ordinary, reasonable, person in that position would have believed it.

  14. #214
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    Butler.

    And I am not unwilling. I can't offer you an example because it just doesn't happen.

    Find me a single case of homicide committed without a weapon (other than fists) as a result of a street fight in Ohio in the last ten years.

    It is quite rare. There are certainly examples. The case of George Huguely V beating his girlfriend to death in Virginia in 2012 comes to mind, but it is unusual. What cases you might find are generally children beaten by adults, or girlfriends beaten by boyfriends. But those are cases of domestic violence, not street fights. Zimmerman is not a child, and was not involved in a relationship with his attacker. It is almost unheard of to die under such circumstances.
    Did you happen to click on the link I provided via google when we first started this conversation? It list hundreds of incidents where a person is punched and then generally speaking the punched victim falls onto a hard surface and either dies immediately or later due to brain hemorage.

    Without fist.... lol... first it was without guns. Can you make up your mind what the parameters of your argument are? I'll try to keep up.
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  15. #215

    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    I don't think we would want to follow the UK on these matters. I recall reading a couple of cases were people have been prosecuted for shooting nighttime invaders of there homes. It presents too great a danger to burglars, I guess.

  16. #216
    JUB Addict T-Rexx's Avatar
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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    ^ Of course he had a right to defend himself.

    But, why did he pursue the victim in the first place? Why does he bear no responsibility for provocative behavior which resulted in the death of a human being?

    And, why is it legal in Florida to pursue and kill people you don't like?

    You righties defend vociferously the lives of the unborn. But, the lives of young black people don't seem to matter to you.

  17. #217
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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    Did you happen to click on the link I provided via google when we first started this conversation?
    What link would that be?


    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    Without fist.... lol... first it was without guns. Can you make up your mind what the parameters of your argument are? I'll try to keep up.
    The point has always been without weapons (unless you consider a "fist" a weapon). That is clearly stated. Weapons include guns, knives, baseball bats, garrots, etc.

  18. #218
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  19. #219
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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    ^ Okay, I count six unique cases of people dying from punches in the last three years, worldwide (and in one of those, the victim's head was impaled on a fence, which is hardly a death resulting from impact with a body part - but I'll give it to you).

    And you think that makes it common?

    We average four murders per year in Butler County, alone. But some weapon is always involved. Always.
    Last edited by T-Rexx; July 19th, 2013 at 12:53 PM.

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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    You count six... so you tell me you reviewed all 41 thousand returns or you reviewed the first page?
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  21. #221
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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    I do not see that "stand your ground" has anything to do with his case. Carrying a gun did. But I do not accept your claim that Z would not have been hurt by the pounding. Legally, under plain old fashioned self defense, once M escolated into serious violence, Z had the right to defend himself, and, if he reasonably belied he was in danger of death or serious injury, to use lethal force. It is intended to be an objective standard, that is, it is not enough that he subjectively believed he was in danger. The jury must determine whether an ordinary, reasonable, person in that position would have believed it.
    Considering how superficial his wounds were, "pounding" is a misleading term. Also, Trayvon perceived danger and was self-defending. The law gives him the right.
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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    You righties defend vociferously the lives of the unborn. But, the lives of young black people don't seem to matter to you.
    That's cause they're all crack-head thugs trying to steal jobs from good Christian "traditional" Americans!
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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Considering how superficial his wounds were, "pounding" is a misleading term. Also, Trayvon perceived danger and was self-defending. The law gives him the right.


    Where in the law are you allowed to physically strike someone for following you? The law does not give anyone that right.

  24. #224

    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Considering how superficial his wounds were, "pounding" is a misleading term. Also, Trayvon perceived danger and was self-defending. The law gives him the right.
    Z was the one on trial. The jury found that he acted in self defense.
    The argument that Z might not have been injured in the fight or that people are seldom killed in such fights are irrelevant. The question is, what would a reasonable person think and what did he think? The ordinary, reasonable person would have, the jury found, believed that his life was in danger, which is inconsistent with your opinion and, perhaps with your statics.
    Last edited by opinterph; July 19th, 2013 at 03:04 PM. Reason: fixed quote tags

  25. #225
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fly View Post
    Where in the law are you allowed to physically strike someone for following you? The law does not give anyone that right.
    Actually, SYG does. He perceived danger and chose his means of self-defense. The law doesn't allow for stalking people with harmful intent either, but there you have it.
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  26. #226
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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Z was the one on trial. The jury found that he acted in self defense.
    The argument that Z might not have been injured in the fight or that people are seldom killed in such fights are irrelevant. The question is, what would a reasonable person think and what did he think? The ordinary, reasonable person would have, the jury found, believed that his life was in danger, which is inconsistent with your opinion and, perhaps with your statics.
    Of course he believed that. He already thought the kid was a danger to him before he even started following him. That's because he is a crazy trigger-happy lunatic with anger issues.
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  27. #227

    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    ^ Of course he had a right to defend himself.

    But, why did he pursue the victim in the first place? Why does he bear no responsibility for provocative behavior which resulted in the death of a human being?

    And, why is it legal in Florida to pursue and kill people you don't like?

    You righties defend vociferously the lives of the unborn. But, the lives of young black people don't seem to matter to you.
    Z thought that M was suspicious and followed M, not pursued him. M thought Z was a gay rapist and attacked.
    Liberals see nothing wrong with the slaughter of Americans babies by the tens of millions, many of whom are Black, but get excited about one child and feel morally superior.

  28. #228
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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    That's because "liberals" (and thousands of Republican women) don't consider fetuses to be "babies", and therefore don't consider it a "slaughter". We don't accept your initial premise and therefore your moral judgment is irrelevant.

    As for Zimmerman thinking Trayvon was suspicious, we all know he would not have thought that were Trayvon a white kid. And THIS is why people (not AT ALL just "liberals") got "excited" about the case, and why your attitude here is repugnant.
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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Actually, SYG does. He perceived danger and chose his means of self-defense. The law doesn't allow for stalking people with harmful intent either, but there you have it.

    SYG had absolutely nothing to do with this trial. As to the "stalking people with harmful intent", he wasn't stalked, he was followed, and there's not one shred of evidence that points to intent, harmful or otherwise.

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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Well, being followed points STRONGLY to harmful intent. Also, why not stop circling and say what you actually think? You think he was "asking for it", right? That he was at fault and he got what he deserved. Be a man and say it directly.
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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Well, being followed points STRONGLY to harmful intent. Also, why not stop circling and say what you actually think? You think he was "asking for it", right? That he was at fault and he got what he deserved. Be a man and say it directly.
    Oh, no one here will say that, I'm sure. Not directly, anyway. People seem to think you actually have to say the slur nigger to be racist. Everything else is "just an opinion." Fortunately the rest of us think that if it quacks like a duck, has webbed feet, feathers and follows you home from the local pond in the hopes of bread, we know it's from the Anatidae family.

    I've just gotta say I've never been followed for several blocks and confronted by someone with good intent. Two were blatant fucking harassment and one was some guy trying to convince me for four blocks (literally coming out of nowhere) that we knew each other and "where do you live now/what's your number/where are you going". Ass was a good foot taller, bigger than I was and definitely older. He had an "I want buy you a drink and slip something in it without telling you" vibe. I'm not saying he looked creepy (they rarely do, they generally look like Joe Schmoe), but his behavior definitely was. Barely got out of that one, was cutting it close. Considering I looked like an underage teenager at the time, let alone female, yeah, fucking creepy. Zimmerman should've done nothing. Everyone who thinks being followed is perfectly reasonable is being willfully foolish and obviously have never been followed themselves. Though with that argument, I wouldn't rule out them following someone else.
    Last edited by luckynumbah7; July 19th, 2013 at 04:47 PM.
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  32. #232
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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by tigerfan482 View Post
    Do we know that Trayvon wasn't trying to knock the gun away? If we go with Zimmerman's story, he at least had knowledge of the gun because Zimmerman claimed he was reaching for it.
    After the gun was exposed in the struggle, which also lends to it being unlikely the gun was drawn when the confrontation started.
    Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule - and both commonly succeed, and are right. H. L. Mencken US editor (1880 - 1956)

  33. #233
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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by Taralen View Post
    Robert Zimmerman is the only one who has admitted his homosexuality. We all know George is a friend of Dorothy with his homo ass.
    Robert Zimmerman is gay?

    WOW!

    I predicted it on here. I said I doubt a straight man would attack a boy that's dead (accusing Martin of being a drug dealer) only a woman would be that catty. Where's my post where I said that.

    I knew Robert Zimmerman was low in testoerone when he made those comments. He needs to man up. Times like these, I wish I wasn't gay.
    Last edited by Lostlover; July 19th, 2013 at 05:20 PM.
    "Rarely do we find men who willingly engage in hard solid thinking. There is an almost universal quest for easy answers and half-baked solutions. Nothing pains some people more than having to think.'' - Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

  34. #234
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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    How do you know that Martin "backtracked?"

    Why do you say that Martin "initiated the physical assault.?"

    The sum total of what we know is that Zimmerman took his gun and went after Martin, against police advice. And why does the attacker have "every right to self preservation" in your world, while the victim does not?
    What he is referring to when he says backtracking is the timeline the defense put forward of the events. The timeline was based not just on Zimmerman's account but also the locations of the physical evidence on the scene and the documented timing of the telephone calls made by Zimmerman, Trayvon and the various neighbors. The timeline tends to support Zimmerman's account.

    Based on all this, it appears that Trayvon turned right at the T intersection of the sidewalks behind the townhouses, this is the direction to his home. Zimmerman went straight passing that turn. It was after this point that the operator told him he didn't need to follow Trayvon. Zimmerman said OK and turned back towards his car. When he came back to the T intersection is when he encountered Trayvon and the fight began. If that is the case, Trayvon would have had to stopped moving towards his house and possibly even backtrack to have confronted Zimmerman.
    Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule - and both commonly succeed, and are right. H. L. Mencken US editor (1880 - 1956)

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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Well, being followed points STRONGLY to harmful intent. Also, why not stop circling and say what you actually think? You think he was "asking for it", right? That he was at fault and he got what he deserved. Be a man and say it directly.


    What have I said /asked in this thread that warrants this type of response? I am discussing facts, not "feelings" , not presumptions,...facts.
    Just because you don't like the questions (or answers) is no reason to degrade people this way.

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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    His facebook page had comments from customers complimenting on the quality of his product.
    Quote Originally Posted by tigerfan482 View Post
    Link? Evidence? Anything to support your claim?
    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    Asked and answered, as Perry Mason might say.
    Again I say, the original Henry Reardon had a respect for the truth.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    And, why is it legal in Florida to pursue and kill people you don't like?
    Because Marion Hammer refused to allow amendments to make the purpose of the law clear.

    The NRA officially considers her some sort of hero because she made a good show as a woman president. I think she's an insult to gun owners merely by breathing.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Considering how superficial his wounds were, "pounding" is a misleading term. Also, Trayvon perceived danger and was self-defending. The law gives him the right.
    "Misleading" is quite polite.

    The bizarre thing is that whether or not Martin was defending himself somehow didn't matter.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fly View Post
    Where in the law are you allowed to physically strike someone for following you? The law does not give anyone that right.
    If someone is stalking you and approaches you with a firearm visible, the law grants you the presumption that your life is in danger.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    President Obama today:

    "You know, when Trayvon Martin was first shot, I said that this could have been my son. Another way of saying that is Trayvon Martin could have been me, 35 years ago,” he said.

    “And when you think about why, in the African-American community at least, there's a lot of pain around what happened here, I think it's important to recognise that the African-American community is looking at this issue through a set of experiences and a history that doesn't go away.

    “There are very few African-American men in this country who haven't had the experience of being followed when they were shopping in a department store. That includes me.

    “There are probably very few African-American men who haven't had the experience of walking across the street and hearing the locks click on the doors of cars. That happens to me - at least before I was a senator.

    “There are very few African-Americans who haven't had the experience of getting on an elevator and a woman clutching her purse nervously and holding her breath until she had a chance to get off.

    “And you know, I don't want to exaggerate this, but those sets of experiences inform how the African-American community interprets what happened one night in Florida. And it's inescapable for people to bring those experiences to bear.”

    Obama noted that the black American community was painfully aware that historically criminal laws have not been applied fairly across the races, but acknowledged that young black Americans were disproportionately both victims and perpetrators of violent crime in America.
    http://www.smh.com.au/world/trayvon-...#ixzz2ZY8nI7xq

  41. #241
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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Nice link Andy. I heard him deliver that and noted that he was very eloquently inclusive of the many different things in play.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


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    Well said. And it sickens me that people here act like that's not really an issue.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    If someone is stalking you and approaches you with a firearm visible, the law grants you the presumption that your life is in danger.


    Has there been testimony stating the firearm was visible? During the trial it was acknowledged as being under Zimmermans jacket. It's against the law in Florida to openly carry a weapon.
    Last edited by The Fly; July 19th, 2013 at 08:07 PM.

  44. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Fly View Post

    Has there been testimony stating the firearm was visible? During the trial it was acknowledged as being under Zimmermans jacket. It's against the law in Florida to openly carry a weapon.
    So why was Trayvon "reaching" for it then, if he didn't know about it?
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    Nice link Andy. I heard him deliver that and noted that he was very eloquently inclusive of the many different things in play.
    Ditto that.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  46. #246
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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fly View Post
    Has there been testimony stating the firearm was visible? During the trial it was acknowledged as being under Zimmermans jacket. It's against the law in Florida to openly carry a weapon.
    Zimmerman said Martin was trying to get the weapon. That means it was visible.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  47. #247
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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    If someone is stalking you and approaches you with a firearm visible, the law grants you the presumption that your life is in danger.
    Goes back to that Greek tragedy idea, I think both parties here thought they were defending themselves. But Zimmerman for certain and perhaps Martin also made bad decisions that led to the situation.
    Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule - and both commonly succeed, and are right. H. L. Mencken US editor (1880 - 1956)

  48. #248
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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Zimmerman said Martin was trying to get the weapon. That means it was visible.
    According to Zimmerman's account, as he struggled to get out from under Martin his clothing was pulled up and the gun exposed. I'm assuming he had some sort of waistband holster under his coat.
    Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule - and both commonly succeed, and are right. H. L. Mencken US editor (1880 - 1956)

  49. #249
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    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    Quote Originally Posted by Stardreamer View Post
    According to Zimmerman's account, as he struggled to get out from under Martin his clothing was pulled up and the gun exposed. I'm assuming he had some sort of waistband holster under his coat.

    That was the testimony.

  50. #250

    Re: Trayvon's Killer Goes Free

    The forensic examination of this trial will not matter a whit unless the US addreses its culture of violence, the craven worship of the gun and laws such as SYG which allows the state to abandon its monopoly on law enforcement.
    The issue of extreme social inequality (rarely a subject of national debate) is also pertinent.

    The jurors say that they acted in strict accordance with the law of the land. They probably did. The law of the land in the US was formulated so that settlers could carry guns in self-defence against their enemies – Native Americans. Later, similar rights over the lives and deaths of slaves pertained. All that is so deeply embedded in the US collective psyche that it's easier to forget that it's there than remember it.

    Even though equal civil rights for black Americans are still so new, their achievement still so clear in living memory, the US just can't see what the rest of the world sees – that inequality so entrenched in the history of a state doesn't disappear in matter of decades; on the contrary, the baleful fruits of generations of inequality can be used to justify the very prejudice that promoted the inequality in the first place.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...trayvon-martin

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