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View Poll Results: Are You Going to Watch Ender's Game?

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  • Yes

    9 20.45%
  • No

    27 61.36%
  • Whose Game?

    8 18.18%
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  1. #1
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Geeks OUT Campaign: Skip Ender's Game

    As some of you may know, homophobe douchenozzle Orson Scott Card's 1985 novel Ender's Game is being filmed this year. The book, btw, is magnificent, it was written way before he became the lunatic he is today, but that is irrelevant.

    Geeks OUT (a group of gay geeks with branches in New York, Chicago and other places) has started a campaign to boycott the movie:

    http://skipendersgame.com/

    It has already been covered in Huffpost and other places, and it has sparked dissension even among gay people. Many believe that an artist and his works should be separate. Others - like me - think that you can't do this separation with living artists who actively try to harm you (Card is in the board of directors of NOM).

    Where do you stand? And are you going to watch Ender's Game?
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  2. #2
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    Re: Geeks OUT Campaign: Skip Ender's Game

    I've happily watched Leni Riefenstahl's Nazi-propaganda films. Of course, that didn't seem like I was somehow lending support to Nazis.

    I assume Card and his agenda stand to profit from the success of the film. (I enjoyed the book before knowing of his homophobia). I'm passing on it.
    Greek Red Damsel
    The worst thing...is not energy depletion, economic collapse, conventional war, or the expansion of totalitarian governments. As terrible as these catastrophes would be for us, they can be repaired in a few generations. The one process now going on that will take millions of years to correct is loss of genetic and species diversity by the destruction of natural habitats. This is the folly our descendants are least likely to forgive us.--e.o. wilson

  3. #3
    JUB Addict gingentleman's Avatar
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    Re: Geeks OUT Campaign: Skip Ender's Game

    Card can go fuck himself. I will never buy one of his books or see any film he is associated with!

  4. #4
    Sex God silentalk's Avatar
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    Re: Geeks OUT Campaign: Skip Ender's Game

    If it's good, I'll probably watch it. If not, Card's loss.

  5. #5
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: Geeks OUT Campaign: Skip Ender's Game

    Or you could not pay for homophobia, alternatively. Just a thought...
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

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    Re: Geeks OUT Campaign: Skip Ender's Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    As some of you may know, homophobe douchenozzle Orson Scott Card's 1985 novel Ender's Game is being filmed this year. The book, btw, is magnificent, it was written way before he became the lunatic he is today, but that is irrelevant.

    Geeks OUT (a group of gay geeks with branches in New York, Chicago and other places) has started a campaign to boycott the movie:

    http://skipendersgame.com/

    It has already been covered in Huffpost and other places, and it has sparked dissension even among gay people. Many believe that an artist and his works should be separate. Others - like me - think that you can't do this separation with living artists who actively try to harm you (Card is in the board of directors of NOM).

    Where do you stand? And are you going to watch Ender's Game?
    It matters to me whether they are alive to collect royalties or not.

  7. #7
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    Re: Geeks OUT Campaign: Skip Ender's Game

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    It matters to me whether they are alive to collect royalties or not.
    Not just royalties in this case.

    Card is credited as both a writer and producer of the film. That means that the success of the film will directly and dramatically affect his pocketbook, and presumably his promulgation of fundamentalist Mormon hate.
    Greek Red Damsel
    The worst thing...is not energy depletion, economic collapse, conventional war, or the expansion of totalitarian governments. As terrible as these catastrophes would be for us, they can be repaired in a few generations. The one process now going on that will take millions of years to correct is loss of genetic and species diversity by the destruction of natural habitats. This is the folly our descendants are least likely to forgive us.--e.o. wilson

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    Re: Geeks OUT Campaign: Skip Ender's Game

    Yes, well, money. I don't want him to get it. I'd also look askance at his estate getting it, if it were behind some kind of cryptomormon homophobia.

    If those details are taken care of, I don't care about the content of the art. I've heard too many artists tell me that the interpretation is in the eye of the beholder. Moreover, for anything left that the artist intends me to understand, I'm free to reject it or even desecrate the message.

    Kind of like kissing my guy at the location of the Reichskanzlei. Or jacking off to a picture of Robert Mugabe.
    Last edited by bankside; July 8th, 2013 at 06:51 PM.

  9. #9
    Southern Faptist johaninsc's Avatar
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    Re: Geeks OUT Campaign: Skip Ender's Game

    I'll watch it when it comes out on DVD or premium cable

    just saw the trailer..looks like it could be a good movie

  10. #10
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    Re: Geeks OUT Campaign: Skip Ender's Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Dejavudoo View Post
    I'll admit to being inconsistent in the application of this standard, as I won't darken the door of Chik-fil-A, but I have different standard when it comes to art.
    I think Ender's Game is probably not that much more "artful" than Chik-Fil-A. It's pretty much just a pop novel/movie.

    In any case, if Ender's Game were artful, as Leni Riefenstahl's films were, would it be any less deserving of repudiation?
    Greek Red Damsel
    The worst thing...is not energy depletion, economic collapse, conventional war, or the expansion of totalitarian governments. As terrible as these catastrophes would be for us, they can be repaired in a few generations. The one process now going on that will take millions of years to correct is loss of genetic and species diversity by the destruction of natural habitats. This is the folly our descendants are least likely to forgive us.--e.o. wilson

  11. #11
    RaKroma
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    Re: Geeks OUT Campaign: Skip Ender's Game

    I know a few guys from Geeks OUT NY. They have a group think mentality on politics that you have to conform to in order to fit in with them. It's up to individuals to decide whether they want to reward an artist for his work or reward him only when his personal life is up to their expectation. It's like if people were told to boycott Sam Cooke for being a wife beater behind stage.

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    Re: Geeks OUT Campaign: Skip Ender's Game

    Quote Originally Posted by zoltanspawn View Post
    I've happily watched Leni Riefenstahl's Nazi-propaganda films. Of course, that didn't seem like I was somehow lending support to Nazis.

    I assume Card and his agenda stand to profit from the success of the film. (I enjoyed the book before knowing of his homophobia). I'm passing on it.
    Oh. I read this earlier, but didn't read it if you know what I mean. Which is a shame, because it is my opinion too. Except substitute nazi starchitect Albert Speer's works for Riefenstahl.

  13. #13
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    Re: Geeks OUT Campaign: Skip Ender's Game

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    Oh. I read this earlier, but didn't read it if you know what I mean. Which is a shame, because it is my opinion too. Except substitute nazi starchitect Albert Speer's works for Riefenstahl.
    How dare you not read my posts carefully!
    Greek Red Damsel
    The worst thing...is not energy depletion, economic collapse, conventional war, or the expansion of totalitarian governments. As terrible as these catastrophes would be for us, they can be repaired in a few generations. The one process now going on that will take millions of years to correct is loss of genetic and species diversity by the destruction of natural habitats. This is the folly our descendants are least likely to forgive us.--e.o. wilson

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    Re: Geeks OUT Campaign: Skip Ender's Game

    Quote Originally Posted by zoltanspawn View Post
    How dare you not read my posts carefully!
    I DO read godot carefully. What are you yammering on about????

  15. #15
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    Re: Geeks OUT Campaign: Skip Ender's Game

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    I DO read godot carefully. What are you yammering on about????
    I'm just yammering about skimming my posts jokingly.

    (Though I don't think you've entirely pegged me fairly via Becket, and other circumstances).
    Greek Red Damsel
    The worst thing...is not energy depletion, economic collapse, conventional war, or the expansion of totalitarian governments. As terrible as these catastrophes would be for us, they can be repaired in a few generations. The one process now going on that will take millions of years to correct is loss of genetic and species diversity by the destruction of natural habitats. This is the folly our descendants are least likely to forgive us.--e.o. wilson

  16. #16
    Look Away To The Moon. MoufOfKhaos's Avatar
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    Re: Geeks OUT Campaign: Skip Ender's Game

    Never heard of it. Still don't know whether I should care or not.

    If each of you brings me a cupcake, we'll consider the matter closed.

    Now get on it, your Mafia needs you.
    "Thereís death on the horizon,

    and Iíll run to behold your sacrifice..."

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    Re: Geeks OUT Campaign: Skip Ender's Game

    Quote Originally Posted by zoltanspawn View Post
    I'm just yammering about skimming my posts jokingly.

    (Though I don't think you've entirely pegged me fairly via Becket, and other circumstances).
    Pegging a Bucket?

    Honestly man, if I weren't so careful in my reading, I think I'd misunderstand you entirely.
    Last edited by bankside; July 8th, 2013 at 10:33 PM.

  18. #18
    blackbeltninja
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    Re: Geeks OUT Campaign: Skip Ender's Game

    ^And either clueless or a homophobe, given her clear misunderstanding of her beloved son Sheridan...

    -d-

  19. #19
    coleos patentes rareboy's Avatar
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    Re: Geeks OUT Campaign: Skip Ender's Game

    I wasn't impressed with the novel...so I am not likely to watch the movie. But I wouldn't boycott or urge a boycott of any film unless the subject matter was clearly hateful.

    I can still watch the Mad Max movies, although I haven't looked at anything that Gibson has done since he emerged as a rabid and emotionally violent 'christian' and anti-semite.....so I realize that I am indeed capable of separating an artist from their work.

    As far as the Reifenstahl and Speer analogies though, I have never happily looked at their work, but certainly have studied both of them in depth. I do find it impossible though, to separate these two from their work.

  20. #20
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: Geeks OUT Campaign: Skip Ender's Game

    Actually, I loved Ender's Game. That the movie looks like a total fail-fest is irrelevant though. We aren't talking some abstract "art or the artist" argument here, and frankly, I don't give a shit if I am accused of being a bully. Paying for this movie is even MORE directly paying for homophobia than buying food at CFA. I am an artist myself, and I am all for separating the work from the creator when it's just a matter of disagreement. Wagner is dead. He can't harm anyone, and his art has proven itself. But Card is very much alive, and kicking. Viciously. At us.


    Also, he got a little scared apparently:

    http://www.joemygod.blogspot.com/201...#disqus_thread


    P.S. I am not part of Geeks OUT, though I know some of the Chicago people. Just fyi.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  21. #21
    nerd of prey hylas's Avatar
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    Re: Geeks OUT Campaign: Skip Ender's Game

    ill probably watch it if the reviews are good (i havent read the book). i certainly wont pay to see it. admittedly, thats a somewhat academic point, since i dont pay for almost all movies i watch. in my defense, im dirt-poor.

  22. #22
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: Geeks OUT Campaign: Skip Ender's Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Dejavudoo View Post
    Although this is a totally shocking confession, it really isn't the issue. The issue is that, as an artist, you have no interest in the diversity of opinions about art itself.

    You simply are lobbying against the film, a film which many would have never heard of in their venues, much less seen. And it is your right to do so, but it is disingenuous to pitch the question when you have no interest in the respondents other than to see if they fall in line.
    I don't see how it is disingenuous. Have I framed it as a debate topic? No. I posted info about the boycott movement and then asked if people are gonna watch it. I am not pretending this is anything other than what it is. And I am sorry, but this isn't about "diversity of opinions about art itself". And not just because the movie will be a sad failure with or without the boycott (have you seen the trailer?). The reasons for the boycott are outside the sphere of art, and that label can't be a safe haven for bigotry, just because the story itself isn't bigoted.

    Orson Scott Card is a vicious 'phobe. He is our enemy, and has said so directly, and multiple times. Why should we support him then? What sort of Stockholm syndrome is this? I mean, other than admitting that homophobia is ok and pretending it's not happening, I don't see another credible reason to support the art of someone who has announced that a government that supports us is his mortal enemy and he will fight to topple it.

    Frankly, I find turning this into a purely abstract "art discussion" situation to be the disingenuous approach here. Statements like this boycott have time and again moved culture away from undesirable attitudes and intolerance. And we all know that if Card was racist, he would have been utterly obliterated and this movie would have never even entered production.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  23. #23
    blackbeltninja
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    Re: Geeks OUT Campaign: Skip Ender's Game

    Was it an American film? And isn't about 2/3 of the Hollywood production crew population gay?

    So don't we win, anyway?

    -d-

  24. #24
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    I do not accept the "your money supports bigotry anyway" stance. Sure, you can't know where your dollars will end up ultimately, but there are degrees of separation that you dove have control over. That is not the case here and your snarkiness won't change that.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  25. #25
    Sex God Negasta's Avatar
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    Re: Geeks OUT Campaign: Skip Ender's Game

    I will definitely see it, but to keep my money out of homophobic hands, I will use the following method to obtain a copy for viewing...

    Attachment 967379

    YARRRRR!!!
    War, War never changes...

  26. #26
    Sex God Musik2400's Avatar
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    Re: Geeks OUT Campaign: Skip Ender's Game

    Ya I'll probably see it. Thought the trailer looked pretty decent. Besides, when I watch a movie, those credits seem pretty long, so I'm not about to skip a movie I'm interested for one name in that scroll. if that makes me a bad homo, so be it.

  27. #27
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    Re: Geeks OUT Campaign: Skip Ender's Game

    Politics aside, I know I'd be cringing through the movie. Running through the back of my mind would be the knowledge that this is that guy's movie who sat on the board of directors of NOM and said things like I shouldn't be permitted as an acceptable citizen. Card's disgusting opinions would haunt my viewing of his work.

    I admit it seems strange to me that the issue of Card's bigotry could be so easily disregarded.

    I recently decided I didn't want to pay for Tarantino's Django Unchained for similar reasons.
    Greek Red Damsel
    The worst thing...is not energy depletion, economic collapse, conventional war, or the expansion of totalitarian governments. As terrible as these catastrophes would be for us, they can be repaired in a few generations. The one process now going on that will take millions of years to correct is loss of genetic and species diversity by the destruction of natural habitats. This is the folly our descendants are least likely to forgive us.--e.o. wilson

  28. #28
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    Re: Geeks OUT Campaign: Skip Ender's Game

    The news doesn't bother me. I wasn't planning to watch it anyway.

    Saw the trailer and I wasn't really that excited or impressed about it.

    Basically, I'm not really a fan of those YA novel genre. Not my cup of tea.

    I don't get why Hollywood is so insistent on making all these YA novels movies.

    With the success of "Hunger Games", there is more coming...."Catching Fire", "The Mortal Instruments", "Divergent"............

    I think most likely, teen girls love this kind of movies... because normally it tend to feature some love triangle...two guys fighting for the love and affections of a girl.

    That being said, I avoid it at all cost. I'm not going to sit through a movie where the subplot is about two guys competing for a girl and the whole story centers on her.
    Last edited by travis82; July 9th, 2013 at 09:10 PM.

  29. #29
    blackbeltninja
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    Re: Geeks OUT Campaign: Skip Ender's Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Negasta View Post
    I will definitely see it, but to keep my money out of homophobic hands, I will use the following method to obtain a copy for viewing...

    Attachment 967379

    YARRRRR!!!
    Except that by the time our worthless 3rd-tier currency gets over there and is converted, it's not even enough money to buy a bus ticket and so will do precious little to help his cause.

    -d-

  30. #30
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    Re: Geeks OUT Campaign: Skip Ender's Game

    The problem I have with it is the DEGREE of his homophobia. He reeks. I probably will never watch it because now that I have read his statements and know the depth of his involvement in discriminating against LGBT people I won't be able to get past that or separate him from his work...and I am fine with that.

  31. #31
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dejavudoo View Post
    But the argument to judge art by the artist cannot be a sliding scale.

    We cannot waive our objections on topic A but not on topic B.

    Either art is art without context, or it is with context. We cannot protest only when it is our pet area of concern.

    I'm not in favor of supporting homophobia either, but in a world peopled by 95% of heterosexuals, it is doubtlessly a given that it is happening anyway, and pretty much every day.

    It's not the effort that is so objectionable as it is the illusion that it is being somehow accomplished, and effectively at that.
    We're gay. We look after ourselves because it's our responsibility. If any of us wishes to stand for others' rights, that's great, but it's not like we're obligated to do it just because we care about homophobia. I know most blacks I've met don't give a shit about gay rights.

    Also, I'm just failing to see your point here. Like, at all. What position exactly are you trying to defend? That "homophobia happens", so we should ignore it when we can make a stand?
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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  32. #32
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Musik2400 View Post
    Ya I'll probably see it. Thought the trailer looked pretty decent. Besides, when I watch a movie, those credits seem pretty long, so I'm not about to skip a movie I'm interested for one name in that scroll. if that makes me a bad homo, so be it.
    Everyone on the credits has already been paid. The only ones who stand to win or lose from the ticket sales are the producers who should have known better, and Card who I hope does in poverty and completely forgotten.

    So, dunno if it makes you a bad homo or not, but that argument simply doesn't play. Everyone responsible for that movie has been paid for their services.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  33. #33
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoltanspawn View Post
    I admit it seems strange to me that the issue of Card's bigotry could be so easily disregarded.
    I know, right?
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  34. #34
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by travis82 View Post
    The news doesn't bother me. I wasn't planning to watch it anyway.

    Saw the trailer and I wasn't really that excited or impressed about it.

    Basically, I'm not really a fan of those YA novel genre. Not my cup of tea.

    I don't get why Hollywood is so insistent on making all these YA novels movies.

    With the success of "Hunger Games", there is more coming...."Catching Fire", "The Mortal Instruments", "Divergent"............

    I think most likely, teen girls love this kind of movies... because normally it tend to feature some love triangle...two guys fighting for the love and affections of a girl.

    That being said, I avoid it at all cost. I'm not going to sit through a movie where the subplot is about two guys competing for a girl and the whole story centers on her.
    Ender's Game is one of the most magnificent and significant works of science fiction ever written. It's been marketed to kids as well nowadays, due to the age of the protagonist, but it's not YA at all. The "YA" label didn't even exist when it was written. I feel this should be said.

    Card wasn't the raving lunatic he is now when he wrote it. Used to be, I would reread the book once a year :/ I hate him for ruining my love for it.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  35. #35
    Cerca Trova braex27's Avatar
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    Re: Geeks OUT Campaign: Skip Ender's Game

    I hadn't planned on seeing it before I found out about OSC and his views on gay marriage.

    Now that I know, I am less likely to see it.

    I know so little about OSC and only know of his one book being Ender's Game. I am sure there are others, but whatever.
    For all sad words of tongue and pen,
    The saddest are these, 'It might have been.'


  36. #36
    dances atop the bellcurve fetaby's Avatar
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    Re: Geeks OUT Campaign: Skip Ender's Game

    Seeking retribution is not the same as seeking a just society.
    But the rub here is that our society isn't just yet. And the writer credited to this film is actively working to make society unjust for LGBT individuals, while at the same time passive aggressively asking for tolerance from the very group of people he is working to oppress.
    It becomes a pissing match of my values vs. your values.
    And when they are stacked next to each other, and society judges them as society does, que sera sera. But in the mean time, this position of pleading for tolerance from bigots ( yes, BIGOTS) is quickly turning from annoying to laughable.

    You want to talk about karmic justice? How's that... When a person puts out such hate that they would involve themselves in an organization that collects money and funnels that money into creating legislation that keeps LGBT people living as second class citizens... that person in turn does not get to pass go and collect the ticket sales to his movie from LGBT people who are informed of the situation... And their friends, and their families, and their Facebook contacts, and their blog buddies, etc. etc. etc...


    Your OP is caveated with conditions that you set up as the standard.
    Look who's talking.
    Last edited by fetaby; July 10th, 2013 at 08:07 AM.
    Please do not apologize for your opinion.

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    We are at least 15% of the population btw. Just saying.

    And I'm sorry if I don't see this whole "oh, so you care about homophobia but not violence against women" argument as anything but laughable. And not only because i absolutely refuse to accept the premise of "gay rights advocates should fight all the battles". First of all, nobody here knows which art I choose to support and which not. Second, I take a stand when I'm informed, regardless of issue. Everyone reading this topic is - by virtue of reading it - informed. Now, if paying people to oppress you doesn't bother you, that's your prerogative. Same way as it's mine to be bothered that you pay people to oppress me.
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    Sex God Musik2400's Avatar
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    Re: Geeks OUT Campaign: Skip Ender's Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    We're gay. We look after ourselves because it's our responsibility. If any of us wishes to stand for others' rights, that's great, but it's not like we're obligated to do it just because we care about homophobia. I know most blacks I've met don't give a shit about gay rights.
    That's well and good, but if everyone were to simply think this way, where exactly would that get us in our fight against homophobia? Just a thought.

    Additional thought, where did you get your stats that "most blacks" don't care about gay rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Ender's Game is one of the most magnificent and significant works of science fiction ever written. It's been marketed to kids as well nowadays, due to the age of the protagonist, but it's not YA at all. The "YA" label didn't even exist when it was written. I feel this should be said.

    Card wasn't the raving lunatic he is now when he wrote it. Used to be, I would reread the book once a year :/ I hate him for ruining my love for it.
    I assume, if you reread it once a year you own (owned) a copy? So by abandoning a story you loved, and refusing to read it again, you've allowed Card and his homophobia to shape you, and change your lifestyle... which (while not in the same capacity) is exactly what he wants to do. At the same time your refusal to read the book you love(d) has absolutely no effect on Card, and he doesn't even realize. So who wins?

    Just some more pondering.

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    Re: Geeks OUT Campaign: Skip Ender's Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Dejavudoo View Post
    Then we fall in line with homophobes who wouldn't go see a production if the director or lead actor was a prominent out gay. Of course, we KNOW we are on the side of the angels, but then again, that is THEIR position too, isn't it? It becomes a pissing match of my values vs. your values.

    As for easily disregarding bigotry, that's very selective as a perceived laxity, isn't it? Are we as appalled that Fight Club has a cult following that LOVES the gross and brutal violence it showcased? Are we vocal about the disregard for the depiction of women when a series of superhero movies demotes them back to emotional sex objects with strong wills but little equal importance? Do we bang a drum and demand social redress when Muslims are reduced to cartoonish caricatures by dumb action movies with muscled hero proxies for Americans in insipid displays of xenophobia?

    No, we don't really. And as aware viewers and discriminating buyers, gay men don't really represent any significant boycott of any of the other causes described. The effect is that our objections about anti-gay producers just make us look pissy instead of voices of conscience. Seeking retribution is not the same as seeking a just society.
    But your comparison with, let's say, a christian, who didn't want to go see the work of a prominent gay director is missing something, isn't it?

    It's missing what seems rather plain to me in a more accurate comparison: and that would be an explicitly anti-christian ideology of this prominent gay director.

    If a christian cringed over viewing the work of an outspokenly anti-christian filmmaker, I'm rather certain I would understand that. If a christian didn't want to view a movie made by a director who stated that christians ought not be equal citizens of the United States, I'm rather certain I would understand that too. And if for some reason, a christian had enough self-esteem to stick up for themselves and call such an attitude plain old bigotry, I would agree. I hardly think such a reasonable feeling of dignity means one is devolving into a pissing match. On the other hand, it's more fairly described by the language of human rights. My values vs their values? Pffffttt. Our values; none of us ought to tolerate such disgusting bias.

    Nor am I sure how you've concluded that "we don't really" engage issues such as sexism and xenophobia. Perhaps we ought to speak for ourselves, or run the risk of seeming unfairly judgmental?
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    The worst thing...is not energy depletion, economic collapse, conventional war, or the expansion of totalitarian governments. As terrible as these catastrophes would be for us, they can be repaired in a few generations. The one process now going on that will take millions of years to correct is loss of genetic and species diversity by the destruction of natural habitats. This is the folly our descendants are least likely to forgive us.--e.o. wilson

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    Re: Geeks OUT Campaign: Skip Ender's Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Musik2400 View Post
    That's well and good, but if everyone were to simply think this way, where exactly would that get us in our fight against homophobia? Just a thought.

    Additional thought, where did you get your stats that "most blacks" don't care about gay rights?
    I don't understand the premise of "if we thought that it is our responsibility to fight homophobia because nobody is gonna fight it for us, where would that get us in our fight against homophobia?" I mean, I'd say it would get us pretty far if we assumed personal responsibility, no?

    As for the "stats", notice I have said "most blacks I've met". No stats.



    Quote Originally Posted by Musik2400 View Post
    I assume, if you reread it once a year you own (owned) a copy? So by abandoning a story you loved, and refusing to read it again, you've allowed Card and his homophobia to shape you, and change your lifestyle... which (while not in the same capacity) is exactly what he wants to do. At the same time your refusal to read the book you love(d) has absolutely no effect on Card, and he doesn't even realize. So who wins?

    Just some more pondering.
    That's pretty pointless to discuss really. He didn't want me to not read his work. That's a side effect of the clash between his worldview and who I am as a human being. It's an unfortunate byproduct and I can't force love for a book back after having lost it, now, can I? I don't think this in any way equates to "he has changed your lifestyle". My lifestyle has changed naturally based on my revulsion for that person.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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    Re: Geeks OUT Campaign: Skip Ender's Game

    Quote Originally Posted by zoltanspawn View Post
    But your comparison with, let's say, a christian, who didn't want to go see the work of a prominent gay director is missing something, isn't it?

    It's missing what seems rather plain to me in a more accurate comparison: and that would be an explicitly anti-christian ideology of this prominent gay director.

    If a christian cringed over viewing the work of an outspokenly anti-christian filmmaker, I'm rather certain I would understand that. If a christian didn't want to view a movie made by a director who stated that christians ought not be equal citizens of the United States, I'm rather certain I would understand that too. And if for some reason, a christian had enough self-esteem to stick up for themselves and call such an attitude plain old bigotry, I would agree. I hardly think such a reasonable feeling of dignity means one is devolving into a pissing match. On the other hand, it's more fairly described by the language of human rights. My values vs their values? Pffffttt. Our values; none of us ought to tolerate such disgusting bias.

    Nor am I sure how you've concluded that "we don't really" engage issues such as sexism and xenophobia. Perhaps we ought to speak for ourselves, or run the risk of seeming unfairly judgmental?
    That is, of course, entirely correct. I am frankly baffled that anyone is even trying to turn this into a "difference in opinions". A difference in opinions is whether we think blue or green is the best color. Or if you peal the banana from the handle or the other end. Supporting an artist who than uses this support to take a massive dump on your civil rights isn't a matter of "different opinions", it's a glitch in self-preservation...
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

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    Re: Geeks OUT Campaign: Skip Ender's Game

    Meanwhile, here's the Geeks OUT response to Card's insolent "tolerance" plea.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

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    Re: Geeks OUT Campaign: Skip Ender's Game

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/13/mo...game.html?_r=1

    HAHAHA! So awesome! Lionsgate will host an LGBT benefit premiere to show their continuous support of the LGBT community. It is really the best course of action they have in this situation, but I love what this must be doing to Card himself.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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    coleos patentes rareboy's Avatar
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    Re: Geeks OUT Campaign: Skip Ender's Game

    I doubt if he cares....he's picking up a paycheque and as you point out, he can then use the money to do whatever he wants. Hopefully if he has a percentage of the profits, all of the homofests that Lionsgate is going to have to throw are coming off the top.

    We'll see though. I don't think this is going to be the blockbuster that Lionsgate is counting on.

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    Re: Geeks OUT Campaign: Skip Ender's Game

    Heh, I am sure it makes him cringe, whether he "CARES" cares, or not. And while it's a cool gesture from Lionsgate, it won't change many people's position. And as a PRODUCER of the movie, Card's check is very dependent on ticket sales.

    And no, the movie is gonna flop. The book isn't good for a movie. It's good for a mini-series or some such. All the cool alien spaceships and such in the trailer must be from some flashback or something, that probably won't last longer than 5 minutes total. The story itself is set ENTIRELY in corridors and training rooms.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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    Re: Geeks OUT Campaign: Skip Ender's Game

    Well at least there's some justice.

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    Re: Geeks OUT Campaign: Skip Ender's Game

    Poetic too.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  48. #48
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    Re: Geeks OUT Campaign: Skip Ender's Game

    So all of the sudden the movie is good to watch cause they will throw money at some LGBT causes? GeeksOut sounds like some extortion mafia.

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    Re: Geeks OUT Campaign: Skip Ender's Game

    Or, if we actually read the link, we'll see that 1. GeeksOUT has nothing to do with this, and 2. Nobody has said that the movie is "good to watch". Frankly, I'm embarrassed for you. That level of reading comprehension can't be healthy...
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

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    JUB Addict goldenmoth's Avatar
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    Re: Geeks OUT Campaign: Skip Ender's Game

    That creep who wrote Enders game is really awful. I'm surprised someone that stuck in the past would even write science fiction!

    I'm worried about making too big a deal about it because I know people will see this just to support this guy and "teach those pc police nannies a lesson"

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