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  1. #1
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Operation Zeus - Greek Stop and Frisk... to a new level...

    Ok I saw this on FB and then went to check it out.

    I have only seen things like Human Rights Watch and Watchdog.net report these things.

    Kallipolis, is this true that in your country immigrants are routinely harassed, and in one article it claims they are in internment camps? Or is this hokum?

    Tupac, a 19-year-old Guinean asylum seeker, for example, said that in early February police officers forced him and other black and Asian passengers out of a bus in central Athens: “[P]olice officers came to the door and said ‘All blacks out, all blacks out.’”
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
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    JUB Addict cocksucker4use's Avatar
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    Re: Operation Zeus - Greek Stop and Frisk... to a new level...

    This would not be surprising. The Southern European illegal or extralegal immigration problem has been significant for decades. Now that their economies have tanked and pensioners and workers are fucked, in Greece, the competition for jobs and welfare presented by immigrants, whether legal or illegal is becoming intolerable. So, the cops are harassing all non-greeks living there. One can't condone it, but it is understandable, if not justifiable.

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    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Operation Zeus - Greek Stop and Frisk... to a new level...

    Quote Originally Posted by cocksucker4use View Post
    This would not be surprising. The Southern European illegal or extralegal immigration problem has been significant for decades. Now that their economies have tanked and pensioners and workers are fucked, in Greece, the competition for jobs and welfare presented by immigrants, whether legal or illegal is becoming intolerable. So, the cops are harassing all non-greeks living there. One can't condone it, but it is understandable, if not justifiable.
    No i think it is rather amusing to be lectured to about freedom by a citizen of a country that uses internment camps. I was really looking for Kallipolis reaction to his countries behavior. I also think understandable and justifiable are ignorant statements. Would you be OK with 'brown skinned people" be indiscriminately rounded up in Oakland? Not any other criteria just the ones that don't look "american".
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  5. #5
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: Operation Zeus - Greek Stop and Frisk... to a new level...

    Ahh. A thread not really intending to discuss the problems of Greece or how to improve it, but to excuse American deficiencies by shouting claims of hypocrisy.

    No matter. We can pretend the subject is actually Greece.

    They have a big crazy neo-nazi problem. And they have a big crazy Byzantine church problem that defines citizenship in terms of piety. Greek culture managed to soldier bravely through the Enlightenment without paying too much heed. And the country suffers for it today. Nothing good can come of it until Greece embraces pluralistic principles and actually honours freedom of conscience.

    Cue cries of "Oh yeah! We're still number one! The world suckles at our teat! None of that matters because the problem with your country is _________."

    I think the term is "tu quoque"
    Last edited by bankside; July 6th, 2013 at 12:26 PM.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

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    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Operation Zeus - Greek Stop and Frisk... to a new level...

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    Ahh. A thread not really intending to discuss the problems of Greece or how to improve it, but to excuse American deficiencies by shouting claims of hypocrisy.

    No matter. We can pretend the subject is actually Greece.

    They have a big crazy neo-nazi problem. And they have a big crazy Byzantine church problem that defines citizenship in terms of piety. Greek culture managed to soldier bravely through the Enlightenment without paying too much heed. And the country suffers for it today. Nothing good can come of it until Greece embraces pluralistic principles and actually honours freedom of conscience.

    Cue cries of "Oh yeah! We're still number one! The world suckles at our teat! None of that matters because the problem with your country is _________."

    I think the term is "tu quoque"
    OH WHAT THE FUCK EVER.... at least you had the ability to respond after a third post. Your cowardly cohort wont back up his own countries human rights abuses.

    This is truly about Greece and their shitty treatment of immigrants... BUT I would love to hear the freedom talking human right preacher give us a sermon
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    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Operation Zeus - Greek Stop and Frisk... to a new level...

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    They have a big crazy neo-nazi problem. And they have a big crazy Byzantine church problem that defines citizenship in terms of piety. Greek culture managed to soldier bravely through the Enlightenment without paying too much heed. And the country suffers for it today. Nothing good can come of it until Greece embraces pluralistic principles and actually honours freedom of conscience.
    P.S now that I have removed your whimpering pussy hurts bullshit.... this is not the relatively small neo nazi party... this is the givernment doing this to its people.... but go ahead and excuse it because you cant bash 'murica... completely transparent.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
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    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Operation Zeus - Greek Stop and Frisk... to a new level...

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    Ahh. A thread not really intending to discuss the problems of Greece or how to improve it, but to excuse American deficiencies by shouting claims of hypocrisy.

    No matter. We can pretend the subject is actually Greece.

    They have a big crazy neo-nazi problem. And they have a big crazy Byzantine church problem that defines citizenship in terms of piety. Greek culture managed to soldier bravely through the Enlightenment without paying too much heed. And the country suffers for it today. Nothing good can come of it until Greece embraces pluralistic principles and actually honours freedom of conscience.

    Cue cries of "Oh yeah! We're still number one! The world suckles at our teat! None of that matters because the problem with your country is _________."

    I think the term is "tu quoque"
    I might add please stick to the topic. I have requested this remain on topic and be designated as such. Your personal attacks will not be tolerated. I truly would like to know his feelings on the matter. That is why the fuck I ask for it. So feel free to read the material and actually provide an opinion or fuck off.
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    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: Operation Zeus - Greek Stop and Frisk... to a new level...

    Great. You just gave the sermon:
    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    This is truly about Greece and their shitty treatment of immigrants...
    And you're preaching to the choir. It's ridiculous there. There is no more reason for Golden Dawn scum to be allowed within 100km of Syntagma Square than there is to let the Muslim Brothers turn Egypt into their own mini caliphate.

    One strategic error made by Syriza is to take the opposite approach. Doing nothing about illegal immigration just encourages people to reject inaction for the first stupid extremist idea that comes along. So while they are right to oppose the pogrom-like nature of the recent police tactics, they can't just say the situation is fine. Greece needs less porous borders. It needs to let in only the people that meet its laws, deport those who don't, and then it needs to respect those who played by the rules. But it doesn't have to harass or insult people legally in Greece to achieve that.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

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    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: Operation Zeus - Greek Stop and Frisk... to a new level...

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    I might add please stick to the topic. I have requested this remain on topic and be designated as such. Your personal attacks will not be tolerated. I truly would like to know his feelings on the matter. That is why the fuck I ask for it. So feel free to read the material and actually provide an opinion or fuck off.
    I responded to the topic you posted in the first post.
    I responded to the topic you posted in your third post. They weren't the same.

    I have yet to respond to the personal attack on another member in calling him a coward. So decide what the rules are first, perhaps.
    Last edited by bankside; July 6th, 2013 at 01:04 PM.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  11. #11
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Operation Zeus - Greek Stop and Frisk... to a new level...

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    Great. You just gave the sermon:


    And you're preaching to the choir. It's ridiculous there. There is no more reason for Golden Dawn scum to be allowed within 100km of Syntagma Square than there is to let the Muslim Brothers turn Egypt into their own mini caliphate.

    One strategic error made by Syriza is to take the opposite approach. Doing nothing about illegal immigration just encourages people to reject inaction for the first stupid extremist idea that comes along. So while they are right to oppose the pogrom-like nature of the recent police tactics, they can't just say the situation is fine. Greece needs less porous borders. It needs to let in only the people that meet its laws, deport those who don't, and then it needs to respect those who played by the rules. But it doesn't have to harass or insult people legally in Greece to achieve that.
    well gee why couldn't you have said so in the first place instaed of insisting upon personal attack. You give, you get.
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  12. #12
    @ The House of Grimshaw pat grimshaw's Avatar
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    Re: Operation Zeus - Greek Stop and Frisk... to a new level...





    A Rich American and his Rich American friends telling poor people on the other side of the world how they should be living their lives according to his Rich American ideas

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Roth#Criticism

    Huffpost tells me The United States is notorious for having its fingers in many pies. One of the ways Uncle Sam tries to coerce other states to get in line with his preferred policies is by doling out foreign aid -- lots of it.

    I've spent five minutes on Wiki which says the US spent big amounts in the 50s but is now only spending a small amount in Greece to ensure effectiveness donating food, medicine, and money help countries get to the point where they no longer require such aid. Which is fair enough, IMO.
    Last edited by pat grimshaw; July 6th, 2013 at 04:10 PM.

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    Re: Operation Zeus - Greek Stop and Frisk... to a new level...

    Oh, hey Pat. What's new in eugenics?
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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    Re: Operation Zeus - Greek Stop and Frisk... to a new level...

    It's a great example of how every country has its own set of quasi-unique problems and how each deals with it as best works for them. I guess it goes to show that everyone's shit stinks.

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    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Operation Zeus - Greek Stop and Frisk... to a new level...

    As this is heading far afield. I will ask some pointed questions that i seek answers (well at least anecdotal accounts)

    Kallipolis I initially asked you for your point of view so i might explore further but any greek poster can probably give me an idea.

    Is this known and reported nationally in Greece?
    Have you seen such things occurring?
    Do you agree with rampant racial profiling to net a few illegals?
    Of note: We have similar 'checkpoints' set up in the south west US where vehicles are stopped by border control and asked there intentions. However, rarely are people held for exorbitant times without charge.
    Is this the influence of Neo-Nazi groups on the government or is this a popular nationally?
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  16. #16
    @ The House of Grimshaw pat grimshaw's Avatar
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    Re: Operation Zeus - Greek Stop and Frisk... to a new level...

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    …Do you agree with rampant racial profiling to net a few illegals?…
    Shock Horror! What you call "racial profiling" is what they call " taxpayer profiling"

    What you call "a few illegals" is what people in Greece call 'a crisis' and "a big rise in violent crime"

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18371800
    http://www.npr.org/2011/08/14/139613...n-greece-rises

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    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Operation Zeus - Greek Stop and Frisk... to a new level...

    Quote Originally Posted by pat grimshaw View Post
    Shock Horror! What you call "racial profiling" is what they call " taxpayer profiling"

    What you call "a few illegals" is what people in Greece call 'a crisis' and "a big rise in violent crime"

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18371800
    http://www.npr.org/2011/08/14/139613...n-greece-rises
    So what you are syaing is it is ok with you for a western democracy to order "All the blacks off the bus" to be searched. I agree it is a difficult situation. If you compare by size it is the equivalent of the US deciding to round up our illegals and place them in temporary prisons until their countries take them back. I am sure that would receive rounds of applause around the world.
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    @ The House of Grimshaw pat grimshaw's Avatar
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    Re: Operation Zeus - Greek Stop and Frisk... to a new level...

    ^ apples and oranges

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    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Operation Zeus - Greek Stop and Frisk... to a new level...

    Quote Originally Posted by pat grimshaw View Post
    ^ apples and oranges
    How so? Please explain how rounding up immigrants using discriminatory practices differs from country to country?
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    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Operation Zeus - Greek Stop and Frisk... to a new level...

    How about if the oranges are beating tourist with legal documents to be in the country?

    “The U.S. Embassy has confirmed reports of U.S. African American citizens detained by police authorities conducting sweeps for illegal immigrants.” It also notes “unprovoked harassment and violent attacks against persons who, because of their complexion, are perceived to be foreign migrants.”
    Pretty sad when the great white satan has to warn a particular minority of its citizens about unwarranted beatings from another western nation's police.
    Last edited by JayHawk; July 6th, 2013 at 08:26 PM.
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    @ The House of Grimshaw pat grimshaw's Avatar
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    Re: Operation Zeus - Greek Stop and Frisk... to a new level...

    I admire people who go to these war-torn, crisis-ridden places full of mayhem, rape and murder and actually do something to help. I have less admiration for rich people sitting in comfortable armchairs in rich countries pontificating and telling desperate people how to live their lives. The USA gave millions of dollars in past decades but that link in the Huffpost article above says that Greece only asked for a tenth of million of US dollars last time.

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    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: Operation Zeus - Greek Stop and Frisk... to a new level...

    I think your awareness of the Greek situation is a bit limited if you think Greece is a place full of mayhem, rape and murder. It's not like Somalia or something. They have the wherewithal to do better than harassing people lawfully admitted to their country because of the most inept racism. And they have the wherewithal to control their borders competently instead of humouring this mutant nazi faction within Parliament. The criticism is on target: Greece needs to do better. This is a modern country with Euros and Olympics and metro systems. It isn't like Burma after thirty years of despotism.
    Last edited by bankside; July 6th, 2013 at 08:43 PM.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

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    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Operation Zeus - Greek Stop and Frisk... to a new level...

    Who gives a shit how much Greece asked for in aid. I have been there and they are no war torn desperate society. Good god where does this shit get into your head?

    P.S. I have been to war torn countries receiving our aid and delivered medical and dental services along with food and infrastructure. What Greece does not get from us it gets from the EU. We are not the worlds piggy bank and indiscriminate beating of people of a certain color would certainly not sway us to spend more.

    Still since you refuse to answer any of the questions, just pontificate about some other topic feel free to address it or move on....
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    @ The House of Grimshaw pat grimshaw's Avatar
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    Re: Operation Zeus - Greek Stop and Frisk... to a new level...

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    How so? Please explain how rounding up immigrants using discriminatory practices differs from country to country?
    You have to use discriminatory practices; you discriminate between taxpayers and non-taxpayers; between illegal people demanding free food and shelter and non-illegal people demanding food and shelter, between biased, emotional news reporting and first-hand accounts of the recent flood of illegals in Greece happening now.

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    @ The House of Grimshaw pat grimshaw's Avatar
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    Re: Operation Zeus - Greek Stop and Frisk... to a new level...

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    I think your awareness of the Greek situation is a bit limited if you think Greece is a place full of mayhem, rape and murder. It's not like Somalia or something. ...
    It's certainly not like the USA or something.

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    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: Operation Zeus - Greek Stop and Frisk... to a new level...

    Quote Originally Posted by pat grimshaw View Post
    It's certainly not like the USA or something.
    Good grief. A basket case is somewhere like Afghanistan. They earn $1399 each, per year, according to the World Bank.
    A hundred and twenty one countries later up the ladder of development, you get to Greece. They earn $24 667 each, per year.

    That's enough money for an economy where people have houses and cars and the odd vacation or night out at the symphony. Not tents and donkeys.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

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    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: Operation Zeus - Greek Stop and Frisk... to a new level...

    I volunteer with a well known NGO interviewing migrants specifically from Iran and Afghanistan accumulating some measure of understanding on the issues that migrants face living in Greece while waiting to continue on their journey north into Europe.

    This article is a little out of date but reflects accurately the crisis that Greece is facing from vast inflows of illegal migrants en route to Northern Europe destinations:

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...132000476.html

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    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: Operation Zeus - Greek Stop and Frisk... to a new level...

    I will quote from the captioned article for those facing limited access despite the article dating from September 2012:

    quote
    The men, says one officer, are illegal immigrants, who apparently spent the night on the dock hoping to sneak onto a ferry to Italy. They are part of a deluge of undocumented workers trying to reach Europe through Greece, and slipping past authorities is just part of the process. "Day in, day out, the same story," the officer lamented, trying to catch his breath.

    [Quoted Article: Truncated] Copyright ©2013 Dow Jones & Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved.

    Source Link: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...132000476.html

    unquote
    Last edited by opinterph; July 7th, 2013 at 06:24 AM. Reason: truncated excessive quote from copyrighted source; post lacks personal commentary; added quote tags and source link

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    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Operation Zeus - Greek Stop and Frisk... to a new level...

    Yeah there are quite a few articles depicting the difficult circumstance from both the Greek and immigrant perspective. Since that full quote likely violates trademark and will be removed; what do you think about the situation and your countries reaction to the problem?
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    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: Operation Zeus - Greek Stop and Frisk... to a new level...

    There will always be a over zealous even, racist police officer who will over react when checking the papers of an immigrant.

    There was a case a few months ago of two plain clothes police officers stopping two South Korean tourists with communication a real problem for the officers and the tourists were unable to understand one another. One officer proceeded to slap the couple for not cooperating. The two officers were brought before a police disciplinary board with one officer fined one month's salary and the other dismissed from the police service.

    There are stupid officers in every police force the world over. Greece is no exception.

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    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: Operation Zeus - Greek Stop and Frisk... to a new level...

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    There will always be a over zealous even, racist police officer who will over react when checking the papers of an immigrant.
    Do you not see it as a more systematic problem, partly given the situation in Parliament?
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  32. #32
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    Re: Operation Zeus - Greek Stop and Frisk... to a new level...

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    There will always be a over zealous even, racist police officer who will over react when checking the papers of an immigrant.

    There was a case a few months ago of two plain clothes police officers stopping two South Korean tourists with communication a real problem for the officers and the tourists were unable to understand one another. One officer proceeded to slap the couple for not cooperating. The two officers were brought before a police disciplinary board with one officer fined one month's salary and the other dismissed from the police service.

    There are stupid officers in every police force the world over. Greece is no exception.
    That sounds so much like what goes on over here, and world over, as you say. Probably will be no answer to it soon.
    BEWARE! Harassing the Indian may result in sudden and severe hair loss.

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    Re: Operation Zeus - Greek Stop and Frisk... to a new level...

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    Do you not see it as a more systematic problem, partly given the situation in Parliament?
    The international media makes much of the fact that Neo Nazis (The Golden Dawn) are represented in parliament. People are voting for extremists on the far left, and the far right as a protest against the corruption, and incompetence of the two centre parties that have held the reins of power over the past thirty years. It is also true that the Golden Dawn receives an enormous amount of voting support from police officers.

    Police officers have been reprimanded and reminded frequently by their superiors that the Greek tourist industry depends on tourists from all over the world including Asia. Greece does not need thuggish behaviour from police officers and it would appear that the message is getting through to police officers. The Golden Dawn has also been assuming a lower profile in response to public disquiet at their activities, and they also have been on receiving end of counter assaults from radicalised groups. Two can play the same game.
    Last edited by kallipolis; July 7th, 2013 at 09:01 AM.

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    Re: Operation Zeus - Greek Stop and Frisk... to a new level...

    I find it reassuring that Greece has an appetite to contain people of their ilk. Glad to know it.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

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    Re: Operation Zeus - Greek Stop and Frisk... to a new level...

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    I find it reassuring that Greece has an appetite to contain people of their ilk. Glad to know it.
    The issue is not one of restricting Greece to Greeks but of being able to shelter, feed, clothe and offer medical assistance to some one million permanent migrants out of a population of ten million Greeks while also attempting to deal with some one hundred thousand migrants passing through Greece each year needing practical assistance until they move on to other countries.

    The food banks of Athens are now providing assistance for poverty stricken Greeks as well as poverty stricken migrants.
    Last edited by kallipolis; July 7th, 2013 at 09:49 AM.

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    Re: Operation Zeus - Greek Stop and Frisk... to a new level...

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    The issue is not one of restricting Greece to Greeks but of being able to shelter, feed, clothe and offer medical assistance to some one million permanent migrants out of a population of ten million Greeks while also attempting to deal with some one hundred thousand migrants passing through Greece each year needing practical assistance until they move on to other countries.

    The food banks of Athens are now providing assistance for poverty stricken Greeks as well as poverty stricken migrants.
    Sorry; I'm not sure I said clearly what I was thinking.

    I'm glad to see Greece is willing to contain an inappropriate response (golden dawn) to a real problem (illegal immigration being out of control.)
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

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    Re: Operation Zeus - Greek Stop and Frisk... to a new level...

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    Sorry; I'm not sure I said clearly what I was thinking.

    I'm glad to see Greece is willing to contain an inappropriate response (golden dawn) to a real problem (illegal immigration being out of control.)
    Your clarity is helpful. Those who vote for the Golden Dawn are not voting for that party's policies rather to punish the two centre parties for their failings.

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    Re: Operation Zeus - Greek Stop and Frisk... to a new level...

    Glad to see that it is not really populist of an attitude and that reprimands occur. Every policeman on earth has the ability to become corrupt no matter the nationality.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
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    Re: Operation Zeus - Greek Stop and Frisk... to a new level...

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    Your clarity is helpful. Those who vote for the Golden Dawn are not voting for that party's policies rather to punish the two centre parties for their failings.
    Good to see the voters in Greece are just like in the US where they vote on pure emotion instead of well researched policy positions. What exactly did people think would happen when they voted in people with policy positions like that? Guess we're not that different after all. Maybe tomorrow we'll get some leaked information on the surveillance efforts of the Greek government.

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    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: Operation Zeus - Greek Stop and Frisk... to a new level...

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    Glad to see that it is not really populist of an attitude and that reprimands occur. Every policeman on earth has the ability to become corrupt no matter the nationality.
    Exactly right. And exactly why it is a risk to put blind trust in the officials of one's own country.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

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    Re: Operation Zeus - Greek Stop and Frisk... to a new level...

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    Exactly right. And exactly why it is a risk to put blind trust in the officials of one's own country.
    Ahh but if you refer to other threads and other matters, my trust is not blind, it is well informed as a part of the process used.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


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    Re: Operation Zeus - Greek Stop and Frisk... to a new level...

    Quote Originally Posted by tigerfan482 View Post
    Good to see the voters in Greece are just like in the US where they vote on pure emotion instead of well researched policy positions. What exactly did people think would happen when they voted in people with policy positions like that? Guess we're not that different after all. Maybe tomorrow we'll get some leaked information on the surveillance efforts of the Greek government.
    More sour grapes....clearly not of Greek origin.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    Exactly right. And exactly why it is a risk to put blind trust in the officials of one's own country.
    Bravo, mon ami

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    Re: Operation Zeus - Greek Stop and Frisk... to a new level...

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    More sour grapes....clearly not of Greek origin.
    Nope. Just more recognition of reality. I don't need to be of Greek origin to see how silly it is to vote a politician or group of politicians in simply because you want to get back at some other politician. Things like this are what happens when you do that. Let's hope after those of Greek origin are done having their temper tantrum, they can vote based on supported policy and get people back in that won't make decisions such as this.

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    Re: Operation Zeus - Greek Stop and Frisk... to a new level...

    Tigerfan, you forget that voters may not have a choice of credible policy options when conventional parties don't offer them.

    In those circumstances, rational voters continue to vote, but the political message they communicate with their vote must necessarily be different. That's why I'm so keen to see another party/coalition, like Syriza, propose something reasonable. But if voters are not given that choice, there is no undue emotion in their choice.

    In short, a protest vote is neither emotional nor irrational.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

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    Sex God tigerfan482's Avatar
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    Re: Operation Zeus - Greek Stop and Frisk... to a new level...

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    Tigerfan, you forget that voters may not have a choice of credible policy options when conventional parties don't offer them.

    In those circumstances, rational voters continue to vote, but the political message they communicate with their vote must necessarily be different. That's why I'm so keen to see another party/coalition, like Syriza, propose something reasonable. But if voters are not given that choice, there is no undue emotion in their choice.

    In short, a protest vote is neither emotional nor irrational.
    Either the vote is emotional and irrational or the response to the policy that results from the vote is. To vote a party in, not paying attention to their policy, and then acting surprised when their policy gets put into place is not a rational behavior. And I have to believe that there were alternatives to the Neo-Nazi party who a protest vote could be placed in support of. Besides, doesn't Greece have a "none of the above" option to record a vote but for no one? Couldn't that be used as a protest vote instead, so you don't actually wind up with bad policy makers?

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    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: Operation Zeus - Greek Stop and Frisk... to a new level...

    Quote Originally Posted by tigerfan482 View Post
    Nope. Just more recognition of reality. I don't need to be of Greek origin to see how silly it is to vote a politician or group of politicians in simply because you want to get back at some other politician. Things like this are what happens when you do that. Let's hope after those of Greek origin are done having their temper tantrum, they can vote based on supported policy and get people back in that won't make decisions such as this.
    Punishment for those who abused the democratic system often reveals itself, in many countries when the electorate votes for protest parties rather than the policies of those parties ensuring, that parliament represents several parties rather than being dominated by two political parties diluting the power of those who spent years stealing from the public treasury.
    Last edited by kallipolis; July 8th, 2013 at 09:52 AM.

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    Re: Operation Zeus - Greek Stop and Frisk... to a new level...

    Quote Originally Posted by tigerfan482 View Post
    Either the vote is emotional and irrational or the response to the policy that results from the vote is. To vote a party in, not paying attention to their policy, and then acting surprised when their policy gets put into place is not a rational behavior. And I have to believe that there were alternatives to the Neo-Nazi party who a protest vote could be placed in support of. Besides, doesn't Greece have a "none of the above" option to record a vote but for no one? Couldn't that be used as a protest vote instead, so you don't actually wind up with bad policy makers?

    Voting for fringe parties is a rational response by the electorate punishing the two centre parties for their criminal behaviour reaching back thirty years ensuring that the dominance of those parties is eliminated ....and also enabling the other parties (those in opposition) to keep a tighter rein on the day, to day legislative activities of the two centre parties now governing in coalition.

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    Re: Operation Zeus - Greek Stop and Frisk... to a new level...

    Here's a three minute clip from an interview being broadcast by the BBC today with the Greek minister responsible for the police discussing the very topic under review on this thread including references to Golden Dawn:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-23202684

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    Re: Operation Zeus - Greek Stop and Frisk... to a new level...

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    Voting for fringe parties is a rational response by the electorate punishing the two centre parties for their criminal behaviour reaching back thirty years ensuring that the dominance of those parties is eliminated ....and also enabling the other parties (those in opposition) to keep a tighter rein on the day, to day legislative activities of the two centre parties now governing in coalition.
    Well, as evidenced by this thread alone, they voted for discriminatory practices and they got discriminatory practices. I noticed today that Greece has secured yet another bailout for their economy. I'm guessing all of this "I'll show you" politics isn't really doing much to help the country, but as long as you can show them who's boss, it doesn't matter right?

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    Re: Operation Zeus - Greek Stop and Frisk... to a new level...

    Quote Originally Posted by tigerfan482 View Post
    Well, as evidenced by this thread alone, they voted for discriminatory practices and they got discriminatory practices. ....
    They people of Greece voted for discriminatory practices so they could discriminate between taxpayers and non-taxpayers; between illegal people demanding free food and shelter and non-illegal people demanding free food and shelter.

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