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  1. #1
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    Should parents be able to abort gay children motivated by prejudice?

    Even though these three articles are quite old, the constant research on the genetic/hormonal causes of homosexuality has made me think about the legitimacy of generalized abortion rights. If a person finds certain traits to be undesirable, should they be able to abort a fetus who possesses them? This not only includes homosexuality, but other whimsical choices such as height, athleticism or, potentially, even musical ability.

    Lawyer suggests abortion if a test could prove fetus has "gay gene"
    FROM EXAMINER STAFF AND WIRE REPORTS
    Published 4:00 am, Wednesday, August 26, 1998

    CHICAGO - A Chicago lawyer who has published articles about the legal and ethical issues of sexual orientation research says that if a so-called gay gene is ever isolated, parents should have the right to abort a gay fetus or manipulate its genetic makeup.

    [Quoted Article: Truncated] © 2013 Hearst Communications Inc.
    http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/L...ve-3073561.php

    Nobel winner may sue over gay baby abortion claim
    Steve Boggan and Glenda Cooper
    Monday 17 February 1997

    The Nobel prize-winning scientist who discovered DNA yesterday threatened to sue over a newspaper report claiming he advocated the termination of foetuses carrying a "gay gene".

    But in the same breath, Dr James Watson, 69, told The Independent that women should have the right to abort for any reason, including dyslexia, a genetic lack of musical ability or even being too short to play basketball.

    [Quoted Article: Truncated] © independent.co.uk
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/no...m-1279127.html

    And, finally, we shouldn't be surprised that Christians would not support the abortion of gay or potentially gay fetuses, but they openly support hormonal treatment and "tampering" with a person's genetic make up in order to "prevent" sin.

    Is Your Baby Gay? What If You Could Know? What If You Could Do Something About It?
    Friday • March 2, 2007

    What if you could know that your unborn baby boy is likely to be sexually attracted to other boys? Beyond that, what if hormonal treatments could change the baby’s orientation to heterosexual? Would you do it? Some scientists believe that such developments are just around the corner.

    [Quoted Article: Truncated] Copyright © 2002 – 2013, R. Albert Mohler, Jr. All rights reserved.
    http://www.albertmohler.com/2007/03/...ng-about-it-2/


    While I am a supporter of both women's sexual freedom and procreation rights, and I understand that aborting fetuses with potentially terminal illnesses might save a child a lifetime of pain and agony, I cannot help but to feel that individuals who would only be able to love a child if he or she had the right height, body structure, sexuality, level of intelligence or talent, should never be allowed to become parents. In fact, I believe that these people should be forcibly prevented from procreating, because obviously they are not responsible, compassionate and decent enough to bring a child up.

    Turning genetics into a popularity contest seems to be both irresponsible and cruel to me, to be honest. Not to mention that arguing that it's a matter of "personal freedom" makes it all the more ridiculous. If we are free to decide that a child doesn't deserve life due to his or her innate (and utterly harmless) characteristics, why shouldn't we be free to discriminate in other equally noxious, evil and dangerous ways, against people who already don't fit a model of "desirability"? What makes people who have already been born deserving of protections that unborn human beings should not have from the moment of gestation? Shouldn't we have the right to be as we are, whether others like it or not?

    Once someone told me that the relative tolerance that gay people have enjoyed since the late 1990s is nothing but a historical accident, and that heterosexual people, driven by arrogance and a deep hatred for anything that strays from their narrow world view, would gladly participate in our destruction if it didn't require them to feel ashamed for getting blood in their hands. Well, I'm seriously starting to believe that they guy who told me this was right.
    Last edited by opinterph; July 2nd, 2013 at 08:09 PM. Reason: truncated full verbatim quotes from copyrighted sources

  2. #2

    Re: Should parents be able to abort gay children motivated by prejudice?

    I cannot help but to feel that individuals who would only be able to love a child if he or she had the right height, body structure, sexuality, level of intelligence or talent, should never be allowed to become parents. In fact, I believe that these people should be forcibly prevented from procreating, because obviously they are not responsible, compassionate and decent enough to bring a child up.

    I would rather screen parents for a hate gene and if they have one prevent them from reproducing and adopting. Sometimes it is a good idea to let a bloodline end.

  3. #3
    Look Away To The Moon. MoufOfKhaos's Avatar
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    Re: Should parents be able to abort gay children motivated by prejudice?

    Not reading all of that. Sorry, my attention span can only take so much.

    Abortion is not a choice I have to make, and while I might defend to the death a womans' right to have the procedure done, if that's the reason to do it, it's vile(in this case, my bias is showing a little bit). My reaction would be the same if, say, the woman cheated and knew the father wasn't who she wanted it to be, or something silly/"moral" like that. You might as well go all the way with it and abort everything short of "perfection".
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    Re: Should parents be able to abort gay children motivated by prejudice?

    Um, yeah, no. Parents shouldn't be able to abort fetuses if they were found to be genetically gay.

    Kind of for the same reason that parents shouldn't be able to abort fetuses if they were found to be genetically female.

    And I'm an ardent supporter of abortion.
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  5. #5
    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: Should parents be able to abort gay children motivated by prejudice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dejavudoo View Post
    The whole premise is that homosexuality is purely genetic, with no developmental component. That is not proven, so it is premature to conjecture that parents would make such a leap of logic when science does not support it.

    This topic is a non-issue.

    This.....................

  6. #6

    Re: Should parents be able to abort gay children motivated by prejudice?

    I didn't read that massive OP but I'd say that the title is kinda misleading because abortion happens before the birth, not after.
    Last edited by Corny; July 2nd, 2013 at 10:06 AM. Reason: offtopic shock image removed
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  7. #7
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    Re: Should parents be able to abort gay children motivated by prejudice?

    I suspect that once the attitudes toward homosexuality in the US come into the 20th century, there is not likely to be the same kind of debate over whether one would abort a child who is a homo...or at least no more of a debate than if someone wanted to abort because their fetus was either male or female and that isn't the sex they want.

  8. #8
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    Re: Should parents be able to abort gay children motivated by prejudice?

    Abort the parents first ...


    NEVER LISTEN TO A ONE SIDED STORY AND JUDGE.

  9. #9
    I need water Kabluey's Avatar
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    Re: Should parents be able to abort gay children motivated by prejudice?

    Guess there are certain things that shouldn't be revealed about a foetus, even to its own parents.

    There will be parents willing to abort female foetuses too, no doubt.
    Blah blah blah, something enigmatic sounding...

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    Re: Should parents be able to abort gay children motivated by prejudice?

    NO


    Read the full Thread title because of PREJUDICE .

  11. #11
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    Re: Should parents be able to abort gay children motivated by prejudice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kabluey View Post
    Guess there are certain things that shouldn't be revealed about a foetus, even to its own parents.

    There will be parents willing to abort female foetuses too, no doubt.
    they already do.

    this is why abortion should be illegal. we cannot preserve human dignity this way.


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    Re: Should parents be able to abort gay children motivated by prejudice?

    Quote Originally Posted by zoltanspawn View Post

    And I'm an ardent supporter of abortion.
    its a good thing your gay so your not *hopefully* out having babies you don't want.


  13. #13
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    Re: Should parents be able to abort gay children motivated by prejudice?

    My initial response is NO....but what's the alternative? Sentencing a child to be raised by parent(s) that don't want him/her? Forcing a woman to carry to term a baby she doesn't want? Where's the line between personal freedom/responsibility and basic human dignity? It's a tough call, I would hope anyone who could be so cavalier about creating a child, wouldn't procreate in the first place.

  14. #14
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    Re: Should parents be able to abort gay children motivated by prejudice?

    I am ardently pro-choice, which I'll differentiate from being pro-abortion. I don't LIKE abortion, but it's a decision that's up to the person who chooses whether to carry to birth, and at any given time there can be compelling reasons which can make an abortion the best choice out of the bad choices that exist. (Few choices exist: abortion, birth and raise the baby, birth and put the baby up for adoption.) Some potential parents, after the reality hits, come to realize - perhaps when the baby is twelve or seventeen weeks into term - that they don't have the qualities to be parents.

    There are a lot of potential parents whose values would not allow them ever, under any circumstances, to have a baby and put it up for adoption. Many feel that if they have the baby, THEY MUST be the people who raise it, thus keeping the family intact. At the same time they may realize it is impossible for them to raise the baby in a family-of-love setting.

    Circumstances can go awry during the short time between conception and the time before the foetus would be viable outside the womb. Parents can have horrific injuries; the breadwinner or source of most of the family income can lose their job and be unable to get another (and this happens a LOT); the father may do something and end up in prison; they can merely come to realize they are incapable of competent child-rearing.

    No woman, ever, should be FORCED to carry a foetus to birth if she was an unwilling participant in rape or incest.

    The world may be a better place if they decide not to have the baby. If they realize they are going to HATE THE CHILD BECAUSE THE CHILD WILL PROBABLY BE BORN GAY, and they are severely anti-gay Santorum types having been brainwashed by their hateful pastor who has hit them over the head with the hate sledgehammer and nothing else for years (or for whatever other reason they may be antigay and not be able to give love to the child), they SHOULD have an abortion. They shouldn't even consider being parents, because parenting should NEVER be conditional.

    However, no abortion should EVER be forced by the State, either. I've sometimes been inclined to think that there should be "parenting licenses" - but HOW would it be administered, and how subjective would the values be, to determine the suitability? Those who write the test, would they have an agenda? It is a can of worms, a slippery slope - and of course we ALL know that these determinations would probably be made by OLD WHITE MEN. Ten million sets of parents have ten million different circumstances, and NOT ONE of those ten million sets of circumstances will fit precisely with any model that is anticipated by a damned test. Furthermore, invariably some parents would get some of the answers wrong, even for THEIR OWN circumstances. Humans trying to guess exactly how they would react in all situations, including situations which they have yet to ever encounter, is notoriously inaccurate.

    What The Fly said directly above me (which probably won't be directly above me by the time I finish this post), is a summary of the same way I believe.

    Aborting a foetus "because it will probably be gay" is disgusting and appalling, but it does fall under the umbrella of CHOICE. My thought of a "baby that will grow up gay" is that such a fact is exceedingly trivial - "It is what it is" - but for those who HATE THE GAY, it may not be trivial at all, and they may see it as a "handicap or defect" tantamount to conjoined twins, or Thalidomide-type birth defects, or spina bifida.

    Again, there are parents who under no circumstances SHOULD even consider it, but there is no fair way to mandate people not to be parents. Nor, do I feel, is there any fair way to mandate that somebody carries a pregnancy to term and she/they do become a parent(s)-child family.

    Abortion is a gut-wrenching choice which is not for the faint-of-heart. Though it has probably happened, abortions where the choice has been made WITH GREAT GLEE are probably virtually unknown.

    As somebody said, "Abortion should be legal, safe, and RARE." BUT, NO, **NOT** STATE-ENFORCED RARITY - instead, let it be rare for the situation to arise in the first place.

    The fucktards who are not only anti-choice BUT ALSO ANTI-CONTRACEPTION (AND INSIST ON TEACHING CHILDREN NOTHING BUT ABSTINENCE) have the whole fucking [pun intended] thing wrong.
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    Re: Should parents be able to abort gay children motivated by prejudice?

    Oh, I've also had the thought, for a long time, that IF IT EVER BECOMES POSSIBLE TO DETERMINE THAT A CHILD WILL BE GAY, I bet it would be the social conservatives who would be doing WHATEVER IT TAKES to make **sure** that the damned baby is never, ever born. Never mind if they have to fly to Thailand to have the abortion...they'd find a way to do it. Most of these social über-conservatives are hypocritical in so many ways - so often it's "Do as I say, NOT as I do" - and there's a lot of precedent for it.

    Consider one of the examples I've most recently heard: UTAH, among the fifty United States, has the highest per capita consumption of internet porn.

    I have heard MANY stories about extreme anti-abortionists making sure that THEY (OR THEIR WIFE...or girlfriend or girl trick that got knocked-up) got the secret abortions. This is VERY common, as I've come to think that adultery may be more common among social conservatives than any other identifiable group.

    I am one who hopes that a "homosexuality test" in the womb is something which NEVER becomes available.
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    "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires" - Susan B. Anthony

    If Mary gave birth to Jesus, and Jesus is the Lamb of God, did Mary have a little lamb?

  16. #16
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    Re: Should parents be able to abort gay children motivated by prejudice?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZombieKiller View Post
    Yes.............
    ^So .
    In theory , if such an abhorrent test was available while you were in Gestation and your parents choose to abort you because of your sexuality you think that is ok ?

    Abortion is a necessary medical decision , though i believe that it should only be used in cases such as , Rape , Ectopic pregnancy , When the Mothers life is in real danger , for fucks sake there are enough contraception alternatives now .
    Ranging from Condoms , Contraceptive pills , Morning after pills and Spermicide creams , YES , it is the Mothers choice , but , if she is stupid enough not to use any preventive methods , then discovers that the child she is carrying will be gay and aborts for that sole reason , then i personally think it is shameful .

  17. #17
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    Re: Should parents be able to abort gay children motivated by prejudice?

    Of course the contraceptives you mention are available...or are they? The fucktards in power in Ohio have, this week, more or less made contraception such a hassle to pursue that it is tantamount to making it ILLEGAL. The same people don't want teenagers EVER to be told anything other than pure abstinence, either - and free speech at abortion clinics has now been made illegal (or at least at the expense of losing funding), etc.

    Even if I had been anti-choice [pro life] my entire lifetime, my MIND WOULD BE CHANGED BY NOW, because the laws which are being passed now are so extreme that they are obviously coming out of contempt for women. These laws are being overwhelmingly passed by OLD, RICH WHITE MEN - has anybody seen the photo ops for the enacting in these states? Almost never is a woman anywhere to be seen.

    It's even worse that those same people who LOVE THE FOETUS, generally **HATE** the baby after it is born. Disgraceful.
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    "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires" - Susan B. Anthony

    If Mary gave birth to Jesus, and Jesus is the Lamb of God, did Mary have a little lamb?

  18. #18
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    Re: Should parents be able to abort gay children motivated by prejudice?

    Of course if ever testing did provide the mother with proof that her enfant would be gay and she keeps it there would never, ever be the problem of "coming out" to your parents for this new generation.
    http://justusboys.com/forum/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=72786&dateline=115443  2352

  19. #19
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    Re: Should parents be able to abort gay children motivated by prejudice?

    I believe abortion is a matter solely between a woman and her doctor. Every child should be a wanted child.

    Although I sometimes don't understand why a woman would choose whether or not to give birth...it is not my decision!

  20. #20
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    Re: Should parents be able to abort gay children motivated by prejudice?

    Abortion is completely legal here in .za; in fact, girls older than 14 don't even need parental consent for it.

    In that regard, "I don't want it" is a completely valid reason here with no additional justification, suspected homosexuality or not, required.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fly View Post
    My initial response is NO....but what's the alternative? Sentencing a child to be raised by parent(s) that don't want him/her? Forcing a woman to carry to term a baby she doesn't want? Where's the line between personal freedom/responsibility and basic human dignity? It's a tough call, I would hope anyone who could be so cavalier about creating a child, wouldn't procreate in the first place.
    Agreed on all counts. It's a very grey area, that.

    -d-
    Last edited by blackbeltninja; July 2nd, 2013 at 12:44 PM.
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  21. #21
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    Re: Should parents be able to abort gay children motivated by prejudice?

    human race of awsum lands got figa one day in any million dots

    wot is life ans if life is kool

    then fukc sake sort ya self out

    or give populations papas declare how much shit they a got a suck a awsums wot a eons never endin no figa shit

    thankyou

  22. #22
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    Re: Should parents be able to abort gay children motivated by prejudice?

    Quote Originally Posted by frankfrank View Post
    Aborting a foetus "because it will probably be gay" is disgusting and appalling, but it does fall under the umbrella of CHOICE. My thought of a "baby that will grow up gay" is that such a fact is exceedingly trivial - "It is what it is" - but for those who HATE THE GAY, it may not be trivial at all, and they may see it as a "handicap or defect" tantamount to conjoined twins, or Thalidomide-type birth defects, or spina bifida.
    Do you feel that aborting a fetus because it is female also falls under the umbrella of choice?

    In many places around the world, this isn't a thought experiment as we are having here. Female fetuses are aborted because they are female, and in no small number.

    I believe there is a compelling reason to place a real restriction on gender selective abortion because I have the strong sense that it violates a fundamental human right: that we humans enjoy a natural right to be female, without any interference or limitation. I think the same is true of being gay. We humans have a natural right to be gay that is more fundamental than a parent's right to hate gays. If a parent didn't want to run the real risk that their offspring might be gay, then they ought not run that real risk in the first place.

    I don't think the freedom to choose should be absolute.
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    The worst thing...is not energy depletion, economic collapse, conventional war, or the expansion of totalitarian governments. As terrible as these catastrophes would be for us, they can be repaired in a few generations. The one process now going on that will take millions of years to correct is loss of genetic and species diversity by the destruction of natural habitats. This is the folly our descendants are least likely to forgive us.--e.o. wilson

  23. #23
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: Should parents be able to abort gay children motivated by prejudice?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fly View Post
    My initial response is NO....but what's the alternative? Sentencing a child to be raised by parent(s) that don't want him/her? Forcing a woman to carry to term a baby she doesn't want? Where's the line between personal freedom/responsibility and basic human dignity? It's a tough call, I would hope anyone who could be so cavalier about creating a child, wouldn't procreate in the first place.
    Quote Originally Posted by blackbeltninja View Post
    Agreed on all counts. It's a very grey area, that.
    -d-
    I have an idea. Sterilise the homophobic parent(s).

  24. #24
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: Should parents be able to abort gay children motivated by prejudice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dejavudoo View Post
    Such an ideal is virtuous, but is not a viable policy. All it would do is force duplicity on the part of the doctor and the pregnant woman. Unless abortion is going to be limited to medical reasons, then a pregnant woman will simply give some other excuse to abort.
    Banning anti-gay abortion would do all the things that pro-choice activists complain about now when a law intrudes on freedom of choice: it would restrict care to pregnant women, it would put doctors at risk of prosecution, it would force the activity underground and create additional risks.

    The question is do we care if any or all of those bad things happen to homophobic doctors or women who abort their own gay foetuses?

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    Re: Should parents be able to abort gay children motivated by prejudice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dejavudoo View Post
    Such an ideal is virtuous, but is not a viable policy. All it would do is force duplicity on the part of the doctor and the pregnant woman. Unless abortion is going to be limited to medical reasons, then a pregnant woman will simply give some other excuse to abort.
    What is the less idealistic/more viable alternative to prohibiting abortion on the basis of gender/sexual orientation?

    You are recognizing a sad fact: that all around the world females (for example) are aborted simply because they are female. This happens in place of legal prohibitions. Women and doctors are complicit in illegal abortion of pregnancies because the embryo is female.

    Is there a more effective way than a legal restriction to prohibit such disgusting bias?
    Golden Lion Tamarin
    The worst thing...is not energy depletion, economic collapse, conventional war, or the expansion of totalitarian governments. As terrible as these catastrophes would be for us, they can be repaired in a few generations. The one process now going on that will take millions of years to correct is loss of genetic and species diversity by the destruction of natural habitats. This is the folly our descendants are least likely to forgive us.--e.o. wilson

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    Re: Should parents be able to abort gay children motivated by prejudice?

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    The question is do we care if any or all of those bad things happen to homophobic doctors or women who abort their own gay foetuses?
    I care if homophobic doctors and anti-gay parents are faced with the reality of non-existent, bad or second-rate medical care.

    I just care much less about that than if a kind of people are deliberately eliminated for bad reasons.
    Golden Lion Tamarin
    The worst thing...is not energy depletion, economic collapse, conventional war, or the expansion of totalitarian governments. As terrible as these catastrophes would be for us, they can be repaired in a few generations. The one process now going on that will take millions of years to correct is loss of genetic and species diversity by the destruction of natural habitats. This is the folly our descendants are least likely to forgive us.--e.o. wilson

  27. #27
    nf fbt funw glbhuof gmhp SLOPPYSECONDS's Avatar
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    Re: Should parents be able to abort gay children motivated by prejudice?

    gay mean abortions then ? 1st world gonna vote clause ta new word ins block?

    anyway

    alway a swesoums is

    thankyou

    happy parent day wen find wot it mean no a rush plenty species workin da wheel good

    ha

  28. #28
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: Should parents be able to abort gay children motivated by prejudice?

    Quote Originally Posted by zoltanspawn View Post
    I care if homophobic doctors and anti-gay parents are faced with the reality of non-existent, bad or second-rate medical care.

    I just care much less about that than if a kind of people are deliberately eliminated for bad reasons.
    exactly. agreed

  29. #29
    You mad? 80KGold's Avatar
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    Re: Should parents be able to abort gay children motivated by prejudice?

    One of these days, I'll meet a swell guy and we'll get married. We'll have a rainbow-colored picket fence out front of the house. We'll have two shih tzu's, both male, and they'll be gay.

    And via surrogate we'll have two children. Our daughter will be a lesbian, and our son will be gay. And we'll love the hell out of both of them... 'cause gay children are awesome!

  30. #30
    Slut Draven's Avatar
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    Re: Should parents be able to abort gay children motivated by prejudice?

    So basically a test that gives the parents justification in the ending of a life or unlife for all of you overly technical PC people.
    gone was the glow of blue velvet....
    I live among the creatures of the night; I'm living in the forest of a dream

  31. #31
    Reunited
    medic1's Avatar
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    Re: Should parents be able to abort gay children motivated by prejudice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Draven View Post
    So basically a test that gives the parents justification in the ending of a life or unlife for all of you overly technical PC people.
    ^mate .
    There is justification and then there is justification .
    What is so overly political correct about deciding to terminate the chance of a full and rewarding life of your own potential child because they may be LGBT ?

  32. #32
    Je suis Charlie blackbeltninja's Avatar
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    Re: Should parents be able to abort gay children motivated by prejudice?

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    I have an idea. Sterilise the homophobic parent(s).
    In an ideal world I'd want more than just homophobes sterilised.

    -d-
    Last edited by blackbeltninja; July 3rd, 2013 at 01:56 PM.
    Members: [insert appropriate/relevant wise saying or deep thought here]
    Thank you.


    I hope you get this message.
    Comments welcome.

  33. #33

    Re: Should parents be able to abort gay children motivated by prejudice?

    ^ Definitely! Sterilisation is painless. I know a guy who says he "pulls double the number of chicks" since he had the op.
    Last edited by pat grimshaw; July 3rd, 2013 at 02:02 PM.
    .

  34. #34
    The Journey of a Lifetime Adrock-JD's Avatar
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    Re: Should parents be able to abort gay children motivated by prejudice?

    Aborting gay fetuses is the least of the problem.

    The anti-abortion Christians would force parents to have the gay children and then put them in concentration camps and gas them if they have gay sex.

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