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  1. #1
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    Nothing on Trayvon Martin x George Zimmerman?

    All the discussions here and in CE's & Politics are from months ago.

    I thought it was more important than that.
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  2. #2

    Re: Nothing on Trayvon Martin x George Zimmerman?



    I hear that Jeantel's testimony was a "labyrinth of cultural nuances".

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3525805.html
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    JUB Addict The Fly's Avatar
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    Re: Nothing on Trayvon Martin x George Zimmerman?

    Quote Originally Posted by pat grimshaw View Post


    I hear that Jeantel's testimony was a "labyrinth of cultural nuances".

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3525805.html

    She was a horrible witness. Her communication skills are non-existent, she's rude, disrespectful, and dishonest, basically a train wreck on the stand. The prosecution has nothing to hang their collective hats on. Every prosecution witness has clearly presented a case of reasonable doubt.
    Last edited by The Fly; July 1st, 2013 at 06:50 AM.

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    Re: Nothing on Trayvon Martin x George Zimmerman?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZombieKiller View Post

    Both sides have little to agree on, but they do agree on the following. GZ admitted that he was following TM. At one point, TM took off running and GZ pursued. TM then stopped, turned and demanded why GZ was following him. What happened after was where the stories split off.


    All that having been said, what the defense did to Rachel Jeantel was disgusting. The defense lawyer purposefully kept her on the stand for hours and hours making her reveal to the world her way of talking. Considering the jury is mostly white, I'm convinced the defense was trying to bring out the inner, hidden, and latent racist attitude of the jury.



    There is not one shred of evidence, it hasn't even been suggested, that Martin ran and Zimmerman gave chase. Zimmerman followed Martin, there's a big difference between chased and followed.

    The defence kept Jeanteal on the stand to expose her for the lier that she is. If her attitude, personality, and general demeanour put off the jury, so be it.

    As to the "latent racist attitude", who called who a "cracker"? The only evidence of racist epithets are in regards to Martin. The press has tried to paint Zimmerman as a racist but has fallen flat, even after they manipulated 911 calls.



    The trial isn't over, but so far it seems Martin was angry that Zimmerman was following him, and initiated the physical confrontation resulting in his own death.

  5. #5
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    Re: Nothing on Trayvon Martin x George Zimmerman?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fly View Post
    She was a horrible witness. Her communication skills are non-existent, she's rude, disrespectful, and dishonest, basically a train wreck on the stand. The prosecution has nothing to hang their collective hats on. Every prosecution witness has clearly presented a case of reasonable doubt.
    I think that is exactly what makes her completely genuine.


    Additionally, if you are the neighborhood watch when you approach someone and they ask who are you, why are you following me? Wouldn't you state clearly you are the neighborhood watch? Finally, if the police dispatch directed you not to follow the person then why would you do so? Trayvon MIGHT have stated his father lived there and he was going to his home. Then Zimmerman would be speaking to a guest of a resident and have zero reason to be neighborhood watching.

    George Zimmerman was looking for conflict and he found it. Now I hope the justice system funds him as well. They call it neighborhood watch for a reason. The same reason it is not referred to as neighborhood vigilantes.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
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  6. #6
    JUB Addict The Fly's Avatar
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    Re: Nothing on Trayvon Martin x George Zimmerman?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZombieKiller View Post
    Chase, follow, whatever. At one point everyone agreed that TM ran off. GZ admitted on the 911 call he made that he was "following" TM. Happy?


    Well, they confirmed that she lied about 2 things during the investigation: her age and the reason why she didn't go to TM's funeral. How does this invalidate the main core of her story?


    Here's the thing. Just because a politically incorrect word was used doesn't mean it was used in a racist manner. First of all, the word cracker isn't even offensive. It reminds white people of a time when they used to own land and people. How is that even come close to being offensive?

    Secondly, different people from different backgrounds talk differently. Trying to superimpose your cultural political correctness on the way other people of other backgrounds talk is called ethnocentric. English is Rachel Jeantel's 3rd language.

    Having been born and raised in a completely different country and completely different culture and language, I saw this as little better than when the white kids at school made fun of my broken English when I first came here. They would purposely ask me to say something and then laugh about it. Heck, I'm a 30 year old adult and there are still white adults trying to trap me into saying something funny so they could laugh by asking me "how do you say this in your language, how do you say that in your language?"

    Watching the testimony of RJ was kinda painful to me, because it looked exactly like my experiences dealing with ethnocentric white folks.

    That said, her testimony was genuine. She didn't try to rose it up like most people would have done.


    Says the guy who shot him. You started out your post with there's no evidence for this, there's no evidence for that, and presented a "fact" that came straight from the guy who shot the gun. TM isn't here to defend himself, so I guess you have a valid point there.

    That said, even if TM initiated the physical contact, it was over self defense. You're a 130lb kid who just bought iced tea and skittles for your little brother and you're on your way back to your dad's place. There's some creep that is over 200lb chasing following you. TM was within his right to fight back (stand your ground law).

    Again, I say go for manslaughter, put him on probation, and call it a day.

    Are you actually following the trial, or getting info from 3rd party sources?

    The fact that Jeanteal lied, regardless of how many times, undercuts her entire testimony.

    "cracker isn't even offensive" really? According to who? Are you saying you can determine whether or not someone else has the right to be offended?

    "having been born in a completely different country" Who? Jeanteal was born and raised in Miami, Fla. English is not her 3rd language.

    What was he (TM) defending himself from? Being followed? I am unaware of assault being a reasonable defence to being followed.

    Zimmermans videotaped (by the police) re-enactment seems truthful. The supposed conversation between them is claimed to be;
    Zimmerman lost eyesight of him only to find he had walked past TM in the dark.
    Supposedly TM said "what's your problem?". Zimmerman said "I don't have a problem", and Martin said "you do now", and attacked him. Is this 100% true? I don't know, I wasn't there, but it seems reasonable.

  7. #7

    Re: Nothing on Trayvon Martin x George Zimmerman?

    What does "cracker" mean?
    .

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    Re: Nothing on Trayvon Martin x George Zimmerman?

    The witness is 19 and a Junior in high school--she has serious learning disabilities---she can not read very well and can only read printed words not script---the defense lawyer was taking full advantage of this---let's go easy on her.

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    Are u haleloo ya ? Telstra's Avatar
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    Re: Nothing on Trayvon Martin x George Zimmerman?

    A simple crime like this should be dealt with quickly and no need to waste so much money.
    Maybe 20 years jail for the crime and everyone should move on.


    NEVER LISTEN TO A ONE SIDED STORY AND JUDGE.

  10. #10
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    Re: Nothing on Trayvon Martin x George Zimmerman?

    The only thing I've heard was someone in the media observing the fact that George Zimmerman is now a clean shaven fat guy, than the lean five oclock shadow menace as pictured during his arraignment some while ago.

    Before


    Recently



    He looks like Lou Costello



  11. #11
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    Re: Nothing on Trayvon Martin x George Zimmerman?

    "Us minority folk"?.........I am one of "us minority folk". You apparently believe me to be White. Yours is a prejudicial response, just like George Zimmerman. Glass houses.

    When Zimmerman followed Martin he did so because of prejudice. He prejudged that a Black man, unknown to him, walking through his gated neighbourhood, was probably up to no good. Prejudice is a ugly mind set, but it's not a crime.

    As to the lieing, people do it all the time, agreed, big lies and little lies, but lies under oath are different...Ask Martha Stewart.

    Zimmerman claims he was attacked. No prosecution witness, so far has refuted that claim, quite to the contrary. Most of the prosecution witnesses have said he's being truthful.

    The core of the criminal complaint is the shooting. IF, Zimmerman was being assaulted when he fired the shot, he's within the confines of the law, a stupid law yes, but still the law.

    It seems that people don't care what the facts are, they want him prosecuted for being a prejudiced jerk.

  12. #12
    Are u haleloo ya ? Telstra's Avatar
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    Re: Nothing on Trayvon Martin x George Zimmerman?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZombieKiller View Post
    20 years? This is a bit excessive don't you think? Just put him on probation.
    umm he followed the guy and gunned him down in cold blood.
    Simple case. 20 years still stand unless he is very remorseful.


    NEVER LISTEN TO A ONE SIDED STORY AND JUDGE.

  13. #13
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    Re: Nothing on Trayvon Martin x George Zimmerman?

    Bottom Line:

    This is what happens when two hot-heads clash and one has a gun. One ends up dead.
    If they both had guns they'd both be dead.
    If neither had a gun we wouldn't be discussing it.


  14. #14
    Are u haleloo ya ? Telstra's Avatar
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    Re: Nothing on Trayvon Martin x George Zimmerman?

    Quote Originally Posted by cityboy-stl View Post
    Bottom Line:

    This is what happens when two hot-heads clash and one has a gun. One ends up dead.
    If they both had guns they'd both be dead.
    If neither had a gun we wouldn't be discussing it.
    According to what i have read,
    the one with a gun was following/stalking the other guy


    NEVER LISTEN TO A ONE SIDED STORY AND JUDGE.

  15. #15
    JUB Addict The Fly's Avatar
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    Re: Nothing on Trayvon Martin x George Zimmerman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Telstra View Post
    umm he followed the guy and gunned him down in cold blood.
    Simple case. 20 years still stand unless he is very remorseful.


    Do you know what "in cold blood" means?

    You don't seem too bright.

  16. #16
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    Re: Nothing on Trayvon Martin x George Zimmerman?

    Consider that this was almost a COLD CASE, before it finally got noticed. I think it was two or three months after the fact, before anybody outside of central Florida took notice.

    I have this ugly feeling that he's going to end up walking away from all of this, entirely free. Though, at the very least, if that happens, it happens only after he's been "run through the wringer" a few times. (sorry, rather archaic saying nowadays...)
    BOSS: I'm sorry, but I'll have to lay you and Jack off.
    SUE: Can you just jack off? I feel like shit today.

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  17. #17
    Look Away To The Moon. MoufOfKhaos's Avatar
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    Re: Nothing on Trayvon Martin x George Zimmerman?

    Quote Originally Posted by cityboy-stl View Post
    Bottom Line:

    This is what happens when two hot-heads clash and one has a gun. One ends up dead.
    If they both had guns they'd both be dead.
    If neither had a gun we wouldn't be discussing it.
    Uh, no. This is what happens when someone assumes he has more power than he does, gets into a fight that he could have avoided and was advised not to get into, and then ends up shooting that person and is now trying to say he felt "threatened".

    I would think that this case and waste of life was wholly avoidable if the man had just followed SIMPLE instructions, but apparently some people seem to think character assassination will absolve the man of his many critical errors.

    And should that happen, hell help Central Florida.
    "There’s death on the horizon,

    and I’ll run to behold your sacrifice..."

  18. #18
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    Re: Nothing on Trayvon Martin x George Zimmerman?

    My opinion on this issue is that Trayvon Martin feels he is being stalked by a strange man. The man is not wearing a police uniform, and for all that Trayvon knows, could be a mugger. In terror, Trayvon tries to defend himself and gets killed. If George Zimmerman didn't take it upon himself to play "Policeman" and stalk this poor guy, none of this would have happened. I think George will be found guilty.

  19. #19
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    Re: Nothing on Trayvon Martin x George Zimmerman?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZombieKiller View Post
    If it had been a charge of involuntary manslaughter, I would have hoped for him to be found guilty. But since it's 2nd degree murder charge, I sincerely hope he goes free. Life in prison is not an appropriate justice for this case.
    Involuntary manslaughter requires that you didn't intend to do the thing that led to the other person's death. So if the gun had gone off without intent but through Z's negligence, that would justify involuntary manslaughter.

    He doesn't deny pulling the trigger on purpose. That's voluntary manslaughter, even if he didn't intend Martin's death. IANAL; TINLA

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by eddielee View Post
    My opinion on this issue is that Trayvon Martin feels he is being stalked by a strange man. The man is not wearing a police uniform, and for all that Trayvon knows, could be a mugger. In terror, Trayvon tries to defend himself and gets killed. If George Zimmerman didn't take it upon himself to play "Policeman" and stalk this poor guy, none of this would have happened. I think George will be found guilty.
    I share your assessment of the situation but not your optimism regarding justice.
    ____
    If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities. -- Voltaire (1694-1778).

  20. #20
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    Re: Nothing on Trayvon Martin x George Zimmerman?

    ^ That's quite the message: shoot someone dead and get probation.

    This way, even if Zimmerman is found 'not guilty', it's sending the message that, if you shoot someone dead, we're going to make you prove that you felt your life was in danger.

  21. #21
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    Re: Nothing on Trayvon Martin x George Zimmerman?

    Zimmerman stalked and killed Trayvon, he said it on a taped police line. He said, this guy is looking for trouble, he's acting suspiciously, I'm tired of these assholes getting away. He made several very telling statements on taped lines. he was told to stop following him, yet he didn't. He pursued and scared Trayvon to the point he felt he needed to hide from Zimmerman, Trayvon confronted him, Zimmerman attacked, Trayvon fought back and Zimmerman shot and killed him. Seems at one point Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman hitting him and that's how he got banged up.
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  22. #22
    Happy Festivus! Ellybelly909's Avatar
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    Re: Nothing on Trayvon Martin x George Zimmerman?

    Today was very interesting in court. The prosecution is about to prove that Zimmerman lied about knowledge of Florida's Stand Your Ground policy/law. In a very telling interview with Sean Hannity in 2012, GZ said he had no knowledge of such a law as of the night of the murder. He is a cop wannabe and took classes that discussed Stand Your Ground and allegedly wrote a paper about them -- before the murder.

    If you watch this interview on YouTube, it's stunning how little remorse GZ has. He actually said that what happened was "God's will." He also stated that he did NOT regret going after Trayvon Martin AND that he did NOT regret having a gun that fateful night.

    The all female jury will hopefully find this tool guilty.
    Last edited by Ellybelly909; July 2nd, 2013 at 07:43 PM.
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  23. #23
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    Re: Nothing on Trayvon Martin x George Zimmerman?

    Maybe Trayvon was standing his ground and Zimmerman shot him. I think 2nd degree murder is the right charge and GZ, as we are now calling him, should be found guilty. I really think GZ wanted to shoot someone, anyone. He thought it would make him a neighborhood hero.
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    Re: Nothing on Trayvon Martin x George Zimmerman?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZombieKiller View Post
    Voluntary manslaughter carries a sentence of about 25 years. I'm sorry, but this seems a bit excessive. Just put him on probation.
    Involuntary manslaughter would get him less time but in Florida--because he killed a 17 year old kid---(under 18 years old) if convicted he can get 30 years.

  25. #25

    Re: Nothing on Trayvon Martin x George Zimmerman?

    If the jury understands its duty to find not guilty in the absence of proof beyond a reasonable doubt, it will not convict him. The facts simply do not amount to proof beyond a reasonable doubt. There is a better than reasonable probability that he shot in self defense.

  26. #26
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    Re: Nothing on Trayvon Martin x George Zimmerman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    There is a better than reasonable probability that he shot in self defense.
    Too bad that the victim isn't alive to offer his version. The jury will hear Zimmerman's version of the events, but Tayvon's version is pure conjecture. The only option left to the prosecution is to discredit Zimmerman's testimony. That's the problem with cases such as this. The victims are never available to defend themselves.

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    Re: Nothing on Trayvon Martin x George Zimmerman?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZombieKiller View Post
    Voluntary manslaughter carries a sentence of about 25 years. I'm sorry, but this seems a bit excessive. Just put him on probation.
    So you're basing your theory of which crime applies on the available sentence? There are two things wrong with that: 1. He did whichever one he did, and the fact that it was a black boy doesn't actually change what crime it is. 2. You do know that judges have discretion in sentencing, right? They can evaluate mitigating factors, if any, and shorten the sentence accordingly.

    Personally I wish the judge were a black woman with a teenage son.
    ____
    If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities. -- Voltaire (1694-1778).

  28. #28
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    Re: Nothing on Trayvon Martin x George Zimmerman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ellybelly909 View Post
    If you watch this interview on YouTube, it's stunning how little remorse GZ has. He actually said that what happened was "God's will." He also stated that he did NOT regret going after Trayvon Martin AND that he did NOT regret having a gun that fateful night.
    I wonder if he'll think a long prison sentence is "God's will" too. Let's be sure and tell him it is if he gets one.

    It wasn't God's fucking will. It was GEORGE ZIMMERMAN'S CHOICES that led to the death of Trayvon Martin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ellybelly909 View Post
    The all female jury will hopefully find this tool guilty.
    Are any of them black? With teenage sons? I hope so.

    Quote Originally Posted by nycguydowntown View Post
    Involuntary manslaughter would get him less time but in Florida--because he killed a 17 year old kid---(under 18 years old) if convicted he can get 30 years.
    I didn't know that. I'm glad to hear it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    If the jury understands its duty to find not guilty in the absence of proof beyond a reasonable doubt, it will not convict him. The facts simply do not amount to proof beyond a reasonable doubt. There is a better than reasonable probability that he shot in self defense.
    I don't agree. And I think the kind of aggressive harassment, terrorizing, and provocation he subjected Martin to should undermine any claim of self-defense. It depends on the judge's instructions to the jury...who will decide what conclusion the facts support, not you or me.
    ____
    If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities. -- Voltaire (1694-1778).

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    Re: Nothing on Trayvon Martin x George Zimmerman?

    Based on what I've heard and seen to date, my opinion hasn't changed from when this story broke: Zimmerman is guilty of voluntary manslaughter. He willfully and knowingly engaged in reckless conduct which directly resulted in the death of another. The only reason second degree murder is a stretch is that there is question regarding Zimmerman's intent. Did he pursue Martin with the intent to kill him? The prosecution knows this, which is why the top count is second degree murder with a lesser included charge of voluntary manslaughter. The prosecution fully expects the jury will be uncomfortable with the top count, and so will go for the lesser charge.

  30. #30

    Re: Nothing on Trayvon Martin x George Zimmerman?

    ^ I wonder how they chose the jury? I've seen cases where choosing the jurors takes longer than the case itself.
    .

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    Re: Nothing on Trayvon Martin x George Zimmerman?

    Well, Ive been watching the trial everyday. I have HLN on as I type this. Its very important to me.
    " For all there is to feel, let it be felt"
    ― Emeli Sande

  32. #32

    Re: Nothing on Trayvon Martin x George Zimmerman?

    ^ Yes. Why?
    .

  33. #33
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    Re: Nothing on Trayvon Martin x George Zimmerman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Críostóir View Post
    Personally I wish the judge were a black woman with a teenage son.
    Not sure what happened to "he did whichever one he did."

  34. #34
    JUB Addict The Fly's Avatar
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    Re: Nothing on Trayvon Martin x George Zimmerman?

    He will walk, reasonable doubt.

  35. #35
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    Re: Nothing on Trayvon Martin x George Zimmerman?

    Quote Originally Posted by loveguys72 View Post
    Based on what I've heard and seen to date, my opinion hasn't changed from when this story broke: Zimmerman is guilty of voluntary manslaughter. He willfully and knowingly engaged in reckless conduct which directly resulted in the death of another. The only reason second degree murder is a stretch is that there is question regarding Zimmerman's intent. Did he pursue Martin with the intent to kill him? The prosecution knows this, which is why the top count is second degree murder with a lesser included charge of voluntary manslaughter. The prosecution fully expects the jury will be uncomfortable with the top count, and so will go for the lesser charge.
    Well, if he was stalking him with the intention of killing him, that would be FIRST-degree murder (because of the premeditation). That's pretty clearly not what happened. Very few people think GZ left his house that evening saying "I'm-a gonna kill me a black teen tonight!" (Though actually IIUC (and IANAL) premeditation can be a few seconds of "I'm gonna kill you!" obviously the prosecution didn't believe that or didn't think they could make it stick.) Second-degree murder, again IIUC, is when you have a sudden impulse to kill and do so. Manslaughter is when you don't have the intent to kill.

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    Not sure what happened to "he did whichever one he did."
    That was about deciding which crime definition applies. The judge is about the instructions to the jury and so on. I wish the judge were someone who absolutely wouldn't give GZ a pass because after all it was only a black kid, which I don't at all trust as things stand.
    ____
    If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities. -- Voltaire (1694-1778).

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    Re: Nothing on Trayvon Martin x George Zimmerman?

    Quote Originally Posted by pat grimshaw View Post
    ^ I wonder how they chose the jury? I've seen cases where choosing the jurors takes longer than the case itself.
    I was very surprised how quickly that process went.
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    Re: Nothing on Trayvon Martin x George Zimmerman?

    whoever kept prank calling the skype testimony needs to grow the fuck up.

    that is some kindergarten crap for real.

    I really hope their IP's are masked and they get reprimanded.
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    Re: Nothing on Trayvon Martin x George Zimmerman?

    The only thing I know for a fact is that George got fat afterwards and changed his testimony repeatedly throughout the investigation. We all know that's he's guilty, but in the great state of Florida he'll probably be extolled as being a hero ... racist bastard!

  39. #39

    Re: Nothing on Trayvon Martin x George Zimmerman?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZombieKiller View Post
    ....Watching the cross examination today was painful....
    I think one can say that about most trials; I would rather stick needles in myself than be selected for the enfuriating, mind-numbing, fake, humiliating Kafka-esque ordeal of a jury trial.
    .

  40. #40
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    Re: Nothing on Trayvon Martin x George Zimmerman?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fly View Post
    The fact that Jeanteal lied, regardless of how many times, undercuts her entire testimony.
    Oh, so you want to compare notes then?

    Here we go then...

    THINGS THAT ZIMMERMAN LIED ABOUT:

    When he was first grilled by the police right after the shooting he, claimed that Trayvon hid in the bushes. When they went to the scene later, there were no bushes.

    When Zimmerman was up for bail, he lied about having a passport and how much money he really had. He used his wife to try to hide them from the judge.

    When asked in an interview if he knew anything about the Stand Your Ground law, he said no. His Criminal Justice professor testified that it was a major issue taught in the class Zimmerman attended.

    Oh yes, Zimmerman is the epitome of honesty, indeed!

  41. #41
    Suck my dick, Scalia! FuryOfFirestorm's Avatar
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    Re: Nothing on Trayvon Martin x George Zimmerman?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZombieKiller View Post
    Here's an opinion piece about Rachel Jeantel's court performance.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/marcel...b_3537226.html

    I can relate. I'm a 30 year old guy who came to the US when I was 10. There are still English words that I struggle to say correctly. These sounds most people would learn from their parents at a very young age. I missed out on that.

    Like I said, it could have been me on the stand while the very articulate and smart lawyer make fun of how I talk. Shame on that lawyer for exploiting Rachel's weakness. And shame on the rest of the world for falling for what the lawyer intended.
    My grandmother was born in Texas, but Spanish was her first language, and was picking cotton and tomatoes in the fields instead of going to school so her family could eat during the Depression. Even though she learned English and got her GED later on, there's still some words that are hard for her to pronounce or understand. This might make some people think she's an idiot, but she is anything but. She raised 16 kids, worked for the NYC Police Dept, and was a Park Ranger in Florida.

    Not everyone born in America are taught English first, or primarily speak English.

  42. #42
    JUB Addict The Fly's Avatar
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    Re: Nothing on Trayvon Martin x George Zimmerman?

    Quote Originally Posted by FuryOfFirestorm View Post
    Oh, so you want to compare notes then?

    Here we go then...

    THINGS THAT ZIMMERMAN LIED ABOUT:

    When he was first grilled by the police right after the shooting he, claimed that Trayvon hid in the bushes. When they went to the scene later, there were no bushes.

    When Zimmerman was up for bail, he lied about having a passport and how much money he really had. He used his wife to try to hide them from the judge.

    When asked in an interview if he knew anything about the Stand Your Ground law, he said no. His Criminal Justice professor testified that it was a major issue taught in the class Zimmerman attended.

    Oh yes, Zimmerman is the epitome of honesty, indeed!


    Well first off, there were bushes, and Trayvon was standing/hiding in them, as the lead detective for the prosecution testified.

    Additionally, I never said Zimmerman was the "epitome of honesty", but he has not lied on the stand under oath or in a sworn deposition.

    I have never said, nor do I believe, Zimmerman is a good guy. The question is, did he break the law? The only legal violation he's been charged with is the shooting. Was it in self defence? Did Martin attack him? Was he genuinely in fear for his life (the everyman standard)?

    The standard for conviction is "BEYOND a REASONABLE doubt", the prosecution has not met that threshold.

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    Re: Nothing on Trayvon Martin x George Zimmerman?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fly View Post
    The standard for conviction is "BEYOND a REASONABLE doubt", the prosecution has not met that threshold.
    That is the standard for any trial by jury. However, you're not on the jury, so you can't see into their minds to know what they're thinking. Some juries are smart enough to see through the lies and find the truth. So far, the only truth is Zimmerman's, and we have only his word for it.

    To you, reasonable doubt is obvious, but, to the jury, they may be thinking that it's reasonable to believe that Zimmerman is full of shit and a racists who profiled a young man and taunted him into a confrontation where he shot him to death.

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    Re: Nothing on Trayvon Martin x George Zimmerman?

    Here's an article listing many of GZ's lies: http://www.legalspeaks.com/2013/07/5...zimmermantrial

    TM didn't ambush him from the bushes, or bang his head on the ground multiple times. GZ told the cop at the time that it wasn't HIM calling for help. He knew all about Stand Your Ground laws. It goes on. The guy's a lying sack of shit.
    ____
    If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities. -- Voltaire (1694-1778).

  45. #45
    JUB Addict The Fly's Avatar
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    Re: Nothing on Trayvon Martin x George Zimmerman?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZombieKiller View Post
    The scrapes on GZ's head were minor and do not at all show a life and death struggle. It would, however, indicate that TM was fighting back to something. That and he had 100+ pounds on TM.
    The prosecution hasn't proven anything, they've asserted alot.
    How many times does a person need to have their head impacted on concrete before they can legitimately feel in fear for their life?
    Martin weighed 158 pounds, Zimmerman weighed 200 pounds, that is not a difference of 100+ pounds, as you keep repeating. It's 42.

    Quote Originally Posted by Críostóir View Post
    GZ told the cop at the time that it wasn't HIM calling for help. He knew all about Stand Your Ground laws. It goes on. The guy's a lying sack of shit.
    Zimmerman told the lead detective the screams "didn't even sound like me", not that it wasn't him screaming.

    I have not, and am not, saying Zimmerman is someone worthy of praise or admiration.

    His contention is that he shot Martin because he was in fear for his life. The prosecution has done nothing to disprove that assertion.
    He claims he was attacked by Martin. There is no legal justification for attacking someone for following you.

    Unless you believe Zimmerman inflicted his own injuries, you have to believe Martin caused them, because they were the only people there.

    No matter how minor the injuries were, or weren’t, have no bearing on the case. The standard is did he (Zimmerman) believe his life was in danger. Besides which, physical injuries are not required to claim self defence, simply believing your life is in danger is the legal threshold.

    Apparently in this, like many other trials, racial considerations trump facts and the rule of law.
    Last edited by The Fly; July 5th, 2013 at 02:46 PM.

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    Re: Nothing on Trayvon Martin x George Zimmerman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Críostóir View Post
    Here's an article listing many of GZ's lies: http://www.legalspeaks.com/2013/07/5...zimmermantrial
    Well worth the time to read. There is no DNA evidence to support his 'story', and I loved the bit about his injuries requiring only a band-aid.

    The whole story of what happened on February 26, 2012 will never be known as Trayvon Martin did not live to tell his version while Zimmerman’s version changes constantly depending on to whom he is telling it and when he tells it. In the final analysis, those Zimmerman lies and inconsistencies add up and may end up being huge in the eyes of the all women jury and land Zimmerman in jail for life to ponder them.

  47. #47
    JUB Addict The Fly's Avatar
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    Re: Nothing on Trayvon Martin x George Zimmerman?

    Zimmerman does not claim Martin provoked the attack, he claims Martin attacked him. And there is no evidence to the contrary. Anything else is speculation.
    The defence has so far eliminated 2nd degree murder from the realm of possibility, but the lesser included charge of manslaughter is still a possibility, though I'm doubtful.



    And Yes, that is the standard now...in Florida, and a few other states. The assertion that feeling your life was in danger is reasonable grounds for a claim of self defence. It doesn’t usually work, but it is a legal answer to a charge.
    Last edited by The Fly; July 5th, 2013 at 07:45 PM.

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    Re: Nothing on Trayvon Martin x George Zimmerman?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fly View Post
    Zimmerman told the lead detective the screams "didn't even sound like me", not that it wasn't him screaming.
    Plausible...there's a very good chance that Zimmerman had never before heard himself on a RECORDING of any kind. I remember the very first time I heard a recording of myself, and I was like "IS THAT ME???" We always hear ourselves along with the tonal resonance which takes place INSIDE our bodies, as well as what is vocalized, but recordings do not capture any of the internal sound aspects, so recordings of ourselves sound very "different" to us.

    So, the case is including possibilities of findings of Second Degree Murder *AND* Manslaughter? I didn't realize that, but that would mean that if the stringent 2nd cannot be proven in court, I think manslaughter calls for much less of a requirement. Certainly there is NO question, whatsoever, that he did kill TM.
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  49. #49

    Re: Nothing on Trayvon Martin x George Zimmerman?

    Quote Originally Posted by frankfrank View Post
    ...We always hear ourselves along with the tonal resonance which takes place INSIDE our bodies, as well as what is vocalized, but recordings do not capture any of the internal sound aspects...
    That's right.
    .

  50. #50
    JUB Addict The Fly's Avatar
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    Re: Nothing on Trayvon Martin x George Zimmerman?

    Quote Originally Posted by frankfrank View Post
    So, the case is including possibilities of findings of Second Degree Murder *AND* Manslaughter? I didn't realize that, but that would mean that if the stringent 2nd cannot be proven in court, I think manslaughter calls for much less of a requirement. Certainly there is NO question, whatsoever, that he did kill TM.

    Zimmerman has never denied that he shot Martin, he says it was in self defence.

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