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Thread: SCOTUS guts the Voter Rightsn Act

      
   
  1. #51
    IllumiNaughty Overlord. bankside's Avatar
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    Re: SCOTUS guts the Voter Rightsn Act

    Voter ID depends a lot on what counts as ID. Canadians can use a hospital bracelet and a letter from a soup kitchen if that's all they've got. They can show up on the day of the election without preregistration, and without even those documents and still vote if another elector recognises them and swears to their identity.

    But most US voter ID proposals or laws are so obscure and cumbersome that it's obvious the intent is not to safeguard electoral integrity, but to distort the election by excluding people from their right to vote.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte.

  2. #52

    Re: SCOTUS guts the Voter Rightsn Act

    We really need a national ID card to help ensure honest elections and to keep illegals from working.

  3. #53
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: SCOTUS guts the Voter Rightsn Act

    That is correct. Too bad your party only wants to implement that a month prior to major elections and in ways that would make it impossible for colored minorities who are legal citizens to vote.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

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    Re: SCOTUS guts the Voter Rightsn Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    We really need a national ID card to help ensure honest elections and to keep illegals from working.
    What measures should apply to implement a national ID card to ensure it does not distort an election by imposing cumbersome requirements?
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte.

  5. #55

    Re: SCOTUS guts the Voter Rightsn Act

    How in the hell can an ID be called a cumbersome requirement.

    You have to use an ID to do almost anything today. It's a non-issue.
    "That’s the good thing about being president. I can do whatever I want.” Barack Obama, 2-10-14

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    Re: SCOTUS guts the Voter Rightsn Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    We really need a national ID card to help ensure honest elections and to keep illegals from working.
    And to help the NSA keep track of everyone.



    For their own good, of course.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: SCOTUS guts the Voter Rightsn Act

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    Voter ID depends a lot on what counts as ID. Canadians can use a hospital bracelet and a letter from a soup kitchen if that's all they've got. They can show up on the day of the election without preregistration, and without even those documents and still vote if another elector recognises them and swears to their identity.
    Nice that when it comes to voting, our friends to the north understand liberty. Too bad there's no conceivable way to get that to rub off on the GOP.

    Better a thousand illegals vote than one eligible person be denied his/her vote.

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    But most US voter ID proposals or laws are so obscure and cumbersome that it's obvious the intent is not to safeguard electoral integrity, but to distort the election by excluding people from their right to vote.
    QFT.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: SCOTUS guts the Voter Rightsn Act

    Quote Originally Posted by cm98059 View Post
    You keep implying that vote fraud exists in a grand scale. But repeatedly I have shown you that your claims are false and misleading. So here we go again, this time from the New York Times.




    I fail to see where these fears of voter fraud need to result in the disenfranchisement of thousands or hundreds of thousands of voters, which it seems that the republican party seems to be trying to do.
    CM, it's pointless. The facts have been pointed out to him, but he persists in telling the same falsehoods. There's a type of person who prefers lies to the truth, and we have a number of them here on 'both sides of the aisle'. Except for the benefit of others, replying to the lies has no value.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: SCOTUS guts the Voter Rightsn Act

    Quote Originally Posted by lambdaboy View Post
    American now living in Europe. I am white am an Army Vet and The U.S. is and always has been the most racist country on Earth with a touch of Jesus.
    No, it's just not considered bad taste to freely and obnoxiously express it.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: SCOTUS guts the Voter Rightsn Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    You want to ban yourself?
    Show me one single statement I've made asserting that illegal aliens vote regularly.

    Given that you can't, this is purely a personal attack.

    It's also another piece in the picture you supply us of a "conservative" that should make people with only the evidence from this forum embrace the Democratic Party.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  11. #61

    Re: SCOTUS guts the Voter Rightsn Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Show me one single statement I've made on a Monday in July 2013 asserting that illegal aliens vote regularly.

    Given that you can't, this is purely a personal attack.

    It's also another piece in the picture you supply us of a "conservative" that should make people with only the evidence from this forum embrace the Democratic Party.
    .. narrowed it down even further for you.
    "That’s the good thing about being president. I can do whatever I want.” Barack Obama, 2-10-14

  12. #62

    Re: SCOTUS guts the Voter Rightsn Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Nice that when it comes to voting, our friends to the north understand liberty. Too bad there's no conceivable way to get that to rub off on the GOP.

    Better a thousand illegals vote than one eligible person be denied his/her vote.



    QFT.
    You clearly do not understand. A thousand illegal votes cancel out and nullify a thousand contrary legal votes, depriving a thousand eligible voters of their vote.
    ,

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    IllumiNaughty Overlord. bankside's Avatar
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    Re: SCOTUS guts the Voter Rightsn Act

    Benvolio, clearly you don't intend to inconvenience all those conscientious citizens in their exercise of their civic duties with this ID project of yours. What measures will you take to ensure no one is caught short at the polls by bureaucratic red tape?
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte.

  14. #64

    Re: SCOTUS guts the Voter Rightsn Act

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    Benvolio, clearly you don't intend to inconvenience all those conscientious citizens in their exercise of their civic duties with this ID project of yours. What measures will you take to ensure no one is caught short at the polls by bureaucratic red tape?
    We should have a national ID card. The invalidation of the portion of the Voter Rights Act provides a good opportunity for Congress to adopt an ID system. Or the Democrats can just use the IDs they use to cash their welfare checks.
    Last edited by Benvolio; June 26th, 2013 at 05:18 PM.

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    Re: SCOTUS guts the Voter Rightsn Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    We should have a national ID card. The invalidation of the portion of the Voter Rights Act provides a good opportunity for Congress to adopt an ID system. Or the Democrats can just use the IDs they use to cash their welfare checks.
    Here you go again, saying that democrats are welfare recipients. I demand a retraction, or that you provide proof of this disparaging remark.

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    Re: SCOTUS guts the Voter Rightsn Act

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    What measures should apply to implement a national ID card to ensure it does not distort an election by imposing cumbersome requirements?
    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    Benvolio, clearly you don't intend to inconvenience all those conscientious citizens in their exercise of their civic duties with this ID project of yours. What measures will you take to ensure no one is caught short at the polls by bureaucratic red tape?
    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    We should have a national ID card. The invalidation of the portion of the Voter Rights Act provides a good opportunity for Congress to adopt an ID system. Or the Democrats can just use the IDs they use to cash their welfare checks.
    Your reply amounts to nothing. You intend to pay no heed to implementing any ID scheme in a way that ensures citizens can still go to the polls, because your only purpose is to discourage voting from certain segments of the population who may find it difficult to obtain ID and where your analysis suggests they are also more likely to be your political opponents. Your empty answer confirms the charge I put here:
    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    But most US voter ID proposals or laws are so obscure and cumbersome that it's obvious the intent is not to safeguard electoral integrity, but to distort the election by excluding people from their right to vote.
    Citizens should be able to vote without hindrance, barrier or inconvenience. The ID schemes being proposed in the US are designed not to facilitate voting but to stymie it, and they are a shameful cancer that continues to malignantly endure in a country with an aggressive history of excluding people from the polls on account of their likely political views.

    Benvolio, this is just your way of muzzling your opponents' political voice with red tape.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte.

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    Re: SCOTUS guts the Voter Rightsn Act

    A.k.a. fascism.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

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    Re: SCOTUS guts the Voter Rightsn Act

    Quote Originally Posted by cm98059 View Post
    Here you go again, saying that democrats are welfare recipients. I demand a retraction, or that you provide proof of this disparaging remark.
    I thought that evidence had been provided in this forum that more Republicans get welfare.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: SCOTUS guts the Voter Rightsn Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    A.k.a. fascism.
    Yep. It wouldn't matter if everyone got a valid ID for voting, today's false conservatives would still work to provide only one polling place per 60k voters in areas they don't want to hear from but one per 6k voters where their supporters live.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  20. #70

    Re: SCOTUS guts the Voter Rightsn Act

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    Your reply amounts to nothing. You intend to pay no heed to implementing any ID scheme in a way that ensures citizens can still go to the polls, because your only purpose is to discourage voting from certain segments of the population who may find it difficult to obtain ID and where your analysis suggests they are also more likely to be your political opponents. Your empty answer confirms the charge
    Citizens should be able to vote without hindrance, barrier or inconvenience. The ID schemes being proposed in the US are designed not to facilitate voting but to stymie it, and they are a shameful cancer that continues to malignantly endure in a country with an aggressive history of excluding people from the polls on account of their likely political views.

    Benvolio, this is just your way of muzzling your opponents' political voice with red tape.
    Living citizens should be and are entitled to vote once. Your extreme measure to make voter fraud possible, even probable, prove that you simply are trying to swing the elections with double voting, illegals etc. A national voting card perhaps at government expense would solve the problem. Or since you are claiming these Democrats are desperately poor they must be getting some form of welfare requiring ID. Any one on Medicare has a Medicare card. But you don't want to protect against fraud, you welcome it.
    I have not heard of even one Republican objecting to an ID.

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    Re: SCOTUS guts the Voter Rightsn Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Living citizens should be and are entitled to vote once. Your extreme measure to make voter fraud possible, even probable, prove that you simply are trying to swing the elections with double voting, illegals etc. A national voting card perhaps at government expense would solve the problem. Or since you are claiming these Democrats are desperately poor they must be getting some form of welfare requiring ID. Any one on Medicare has a Medicare card. But you don't want to protect against fraud, you welcome it.
    I have not heard of even one Republican objecting to an ID.
    If you don't hear Republicans object to a national ID it's because they're no longer republicans -- they're authoritarians.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: SCOTUS guts the Voter Rightsn Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Living citizens should be and are entitled to vote once. Your extreme measure to make voter fraud possible, even probable, prove that you simply are trying to swing the elections with double voting, illegals etc. A national voting card perhaps at government expense would solve the problem. Or since you are claiming these Democrats are desperately poor they must be getting some form of welfare requiring ID. Any one on Medicare has a Medicare card. But you don't want to protect against fraud, you welcome it.
    I have not heard of even one Republican objecting to an ID.
    BTW, I count three lies in your claims about the poster you're addressingl

    Democrats don't object to IDs, either -- they object to the imposition if ID laws in such a way as to disenfranchise as many non-GOP voters as possible.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  23. #73

    Re: SCOTUS guts the Voter Rightsn Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    If you don't hear Republicans object to a national ID it's because they're no longer republicans -- they're authoritarians.
    That's a lie.

  24. #74

    Re: SCOTUS guts the Voter Rightsn Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    BTW, I count three lies in your claims about the poster you're addressingl

    Democrats don't object to IDs, either -- they object to the imposition if ID laws in such a way as to disenfranchise as many non-GOP voters as possible.
    Another lie.

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    Re: SCOTUS guts the Voter Rightsn Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    That's a lie.
    No republican would ever support a national ID for anything -- that's a totally authoritarian position.

    There are very few republicans in the GOP any longer.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  26. #76

    Re: SCOTUS guts the Voter Rightsn Act

    Quote Originally Posted by cm98059 View Post
    Here you go again, saying that democrats are welfare recipients. I demand a retraction, or that you provide proof of this disparaging remark.
    This whole ID controversy comes about because you claim your people are so absolutely poor they cannot afford an ID. People that poor are eligible for a variety of welfare schemes, so let them use their welfare IDs. Their Medicare card for instance.

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    Re: SCOTUS guts the Voter Rightsn Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Another lie.
    Only to your fantasy world. See, if you actually read this forum, you'd recall that Democrats have agreed that IDs are a good idea -- they just don't like the way that every single ID plan proposed by the GOP just happened to work to make it very hard for non-GOP voters to get one, or get to the polls with one.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  28. #78

    Re: SCOTUS guts the Voter Rightsn Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    No republican would ever support a national ID for anything -- that's a totally authoritarian position.

    There are very few republicans in the GOP any longer.
    Those are lies. It is democratic, not authoritarian, to want to protect our country from invasion and to protect the democratic process from Democrat fraud.

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    Re: SCOTUS guts the Voter Rightsn Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Those are lies. It is democratic, not authoritarian, to want to protect our country from invasion and to protect the democratic process from Democrat fraud.
    LOL

    A republican doesn't go around handing power to the center just because it's convenient. A republican would oppose a national ID with every breath, because that's a state matter, not a federal one: nowhere does the Constitution authorize the federal government to require papers of its citizens. That's why the Social Security law specifies that a SS number cannot be used as an ID number -- something a number of US senators had to remind insurance companies of a few years back.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: SCOTUS guts the Voter Rightsn Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    We should have a national ID card. The invalidation of the portion of the Voter Rights Act provides a good opportunity for Congress to adopt an ID system.
    Col. Klink sez:



    Papers please?

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    Re: SCOTUS guts the Voter Rightsn Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    This whole ID controversy comes about because you claim your people are so absolutely poor they cannot afford an ID. People that poor are eligible for a variety of welfare schemes, so let them use their welfare IDs. Their Medicare card for instance.
    I have never made any claims of this sort. You are making things up that suit your purpose, they are not based in any sort of truth.

    AGAIN, I DEMAND THAT YOU PROVE YOUR CLAIMS

  32. #82

    Re: SCOTUS guts the Voter Rightsn Act

    Quote Originally Posted by cm98059 View Post
    I have never made any claims of this sort. You are making things up that suit your purpose, they are not based in any sort of truth.

    AGAIN, I DEMAND THAT YOU PROVE YOUR CLAIMS
    You DEMOCRATS have repeatedly claimed that requiring voter ID suppresses vote because huge numbers of Democrats are too desperately poor to have any ID. We all know it is a lie. Virtually everyone has ID. The Democrats want the way to be clear for illegals voting, multiple voting, dead voting etc.

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    Re: SCOTUS guts the Voter Rightsn Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    You DEMOCRATS have repeatedly claimed that requiring voter ID suppresses vote because huge numbers of Democrats are too desperately poor to have any ID. We all know it is a lie. Virtually everyone has ID. The Democrats want the way to be clear for illegals voting, multiple voting, dead voting etc.
    Bullshit.

    I looked at this when my mom was at the retirement community. Under the sorts of laws you have championed here, nearly two in three of the residents would have been disenfranchised. That would have been contrary to your mantra/fantasy in more than one way -- because most of them were Republicans, and from poor families scrimping and scraping just to give them a decent retirement.

    Most of them voted for Gary Johnson, as it turned out, because they didn't see a republican candidate on the ballot; though they agreed that Obama was very muck "like Ike", they weren't going to vote for that D.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  34. #84

    Re: SCOTUS guts the Voter Rightsn Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Bullshit.

    I looked at this when my mom was at the retirement community. Under the sorts of laws you have championed here, nearly two in three of the residents would have been disenfranchised. That would have been contrary to your mantra/fantasy in more than one way -- because most of them were Republicans, and from poor families scrimping and scraping just to give them a decent retirement.

    Most of them voted for Gary Johnson, as it turned out, because they didn't see a republican candidate on the ballot; though they agreed that Obama was very muck "like Ike", they weren't going to vote for that D.
    I don't believe you conducted any such survey. But, fine, the solution is to give them an ID, not to undermine our democracy by leaving open the means to cheat.

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    Re: SCOTUS guts the Voter Rightsn Act

    Our democracy is being undermined by passing laws that just happen to target groups that mostly vote Democratic.

  36. #86

    Re: SCOTUS guts the Voter Rightsn Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja108 View Post
    Our democracy is being undermined by passing laws that just happen to target groups that mostly vote Democratic.
    What laws? Democrats control the Senate and Presidency.
    Last edited by Benvolio; June 28th, 2013 at 03:15 PM.

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    JUB Addict cm98059's Avatar
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    Re: SCOTUS guts the Voter Rightsn Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    You DEMOCRATS have repeatedly claimed that requiring voter ID suppresses vote because huge numbers of Democrats are too desperately poor to have any ID. We all know it is a lie. Virtually everyone has ID. The Democrats want the way to be clear for illegals voting, multiple voting, dead voting etc.
    Here is your first lie in this post, I am not a democrat. Never have been. Second lie is that democrats are too poor to purchase their id renewals, a lot of the poor are republicans working for minimum wage jobs trying to make ends meet and seniors who lost a large portion of their retirement funds when the "recession" hit. A large number of Democrats are in education, social services, and the arts, where they are actually barely making a living wage. Your third lie, is that Democrats want illegals to vote because everyone knows that illegals do not vote, they do not register to vote, because that would put them under scrutiny of the government. You need to research your propaganda, because you are proving yourself to be a fool.

  38. #88

    Re: SCOTUS guts the Voter Rightsn Act

    I have not heard of a single Republican claiming not to have an ID. Everyone has ID. But Democrats claim not to have ID to facilitate fraudulent voting. Democrats have too long a history of fraudulent voting to convince us that it does not happen now.

  39. #89

    Re: SCOTUS guts the Voter Rightsn Act

    Quote Originally Posted by cm98059 View Post
    Here is your first lie in this post, I am not a democrat. Never have been. Second lie is that democrats are too poor to purchase their id renewals, a lot of the poor are republicans working for minimum wage jobs trying to make ends meet and seniors who lost a large portion of their retirement funds when the "recession" hit. A large number of Democrats are in education, social services, and the arts, where they are actually barely making a living wage. Your third lie, is that Democrats want illegals to vote because everyone knows that illegals do not vote, they do not register to vote, because that would put them under scrutiny of the government. You need to research your propaganda, because you are proving yourself to be a fool.
    I did not say Democrats are too poor to have IDs. It is Democrats who claim that many Democrats are too poor to have IDs. I think everyone has ID, except, perhaps illegal aliens.

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    Virtus in medio stat JUB Admin opinterph's Avatar
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    Re: SCOTUS guts the Voter Rightsn Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    I think everyone has ID, except, perhaps illegal aliens.
    Can We Still Vote?

    Nearly one in five citizens over 65 — about 8 million — lacks a current, government-issued photo ID, a 2006 Brennan Center study found.

    Why New Photo ID Laws Mean Some Won't Vote

    …89 percent of the population does have photo IDs."

    That leaves another 3.2 million Americans who don't possess a government-issued picture ID, according to a recent study co-authored by [Larry Norden, acting director of the Democracy Program at the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University].

    Citizens Without Proof: A Survey of Americans’ Possession of Documentary Proof of Citizenship and Photo Identification
    (Brennan Center for Justice at NYU School Of Law; November 2006)

  41. #91

    Re: SCOTUS guts the Voter Rightsn Act

    The need to amend the Voter Rights Act creates a good opportunity to clear it up. A national ID card is needed. States could be required to make non driver IDs free to indigents. Some states allow other ID, such as Medicare cards. I don't see how people function without ID. Most Doctors offices and hospitals require IDs. I would assume that some ID for these people will result from Obamacare, as insurance companies usually province a card.
    The solution is not to eliminate the ID at voting.
    Last edited by Benvolio; June 29th, 2013 at 08:03 AM.

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    IllumiNaughty Overlord. bankside's Avatar
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    Re: SCOTUS guts the Voter Rightsn Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    A national voting card perhaps at government expense would solve the problem.
    BINGO! We agree! You have been so busy slandering Democrats, Liberals, Traitors, Foreigner Invaders, Monsters Under the Bed, that the one rational thing you've said on the issue got lost.

    But that proposal would work and would be fair.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte.

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    Re: SCOTUS guts the Voter Rightsn Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    A national ID card is needed. States could be required to make non driver IDs free to indigents.

    The solution is not to eliminate the ID at voting.
    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    BINGO! We agree! You have been so busy slandering Democrats, Liberals, Traitors, Foreigner Invaders, Monsters Under the Bed, that the one rational thing you've said on the issue got lost.

    But that proposal would work and would be fair.
    I've agreed fully with Benvolio on this as well - and in fact I think I've said it in here before he did, and perhaps even before he was IN here. Having the national ID, and having it fully and unconditionally available for those eligible for it, would remove *ALL* excuses which Republicans would ever have. (I am not aware of even ONE law in recent years, either passed or proposed by Democrats, which has had the purpose of disenfranchising voters.) Furthermore, EVEN IF IT IS TRUE as he sometimes alleges, that Democrats want to commit voter fraud, this National ID Card would remove all of THAT possible abuse as well.

    It is NOT much of a stretch, either, to have the National ID Card electoral system tied into a national voter registry database, so that as soon as somebody votes, their name would (on the entire national database) become blacklisted from voting again in that election.

    I am curious about a couple things, though:
    1. How would this system interface with mail-in voting? I guess some places even have Internet voting, correct? Seems like THAT could be open to some abuse, as somebody could mail in a ballot (using, perhaps by mutual agreement, a voting identity of somebody who will be in hospital the entire time through Election Day), then vote in person. [BUT if that abuse is to exist, it already exists. The national ID card would NOT add to it, and could only serve to curb it.]

    2. Even ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS could get a card - IF immigration reform ever passes, allowing "illegals" a path to citizenship. The National ID Card for "illegals" would be impossible, of course, without immigration reform and a path to citizenship, because the last thing an undocumented alien wants, before then, would be visibility on the federal "radar."

    No, it is NOT like "illegals" would simply be handed citizenship by a Government saying "Hey, here it is for you - you don't have to do anything - here, TAKE IT!!!!!" Nothing like the Reagan amnesty is being proposed. Undocumented aliens would have to put some work into the process, and it would probably still take many, many years - though such a long wait is SOOOOOO 18th Century. Why does it take so long?

    Would the not-yet-fully-legal immigrants have a national ID card which is a DIFFERENT COLOR, showing that they cannot vote? I also assume that as soon as they gain legal residency through the process, the national electoral database would be changed to show they are now eligible to vote?

    I do know people who have given me (what I consider to be) hearsay about friends of theirs, etc., who have voted more than once, by pretending to be 3 or 4 different people who weren't going to vote. Funny how these stories ALWAYS come from Republicans. I'm not sure what to think, entirely, but the National ID Card would remove all of this.
    Capitalize when needed. Did you help your Uncle Jack off a horse, or help your uncle jack off a horse?
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    "All legal U. S. residents who are 18 years or older, shall have an unconditional right to vote." - 28th Amendment, US Constitution?
    I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires" - Susan B. Anthony

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    Re: SCOTUS guts the Voter Rightsn Act

    My proposed 28th Amendment to the U. S. Constitution:

    "Any sentient and living person, who is a legal resident of the United States and who is 18 years of age or older at the time of an election, shall have the unconditional right to vote. This right shall not be abridged in any way, nor for any reason other than loss of the ability to legally reside in the United States. This right shall not be removed because of criminal offenses nor incarceration, past or present."
    Capitalize when needed. Did you help your Uncle Jack off a horse, or help your uncle jack off a horse?
    AMY'S BOSS: Sorry, I need to lay you and Jack off. AMY: Can you just jack off? I feel like shit today.
    "All legal U. S. residents who are 18 years or older, shall have an unconditional right to vote." - 28th Amendment, US Constitution?
    I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires" - Susan B. Anthony

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    IllumiNaughty Overlord. bankside's Avatar
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    Re: SCOTUS guts the Voter Rightsn Act

    Frank frank, I don't think you have to worry about democrats commuting voter fraud. Last time I read the news on the subject, there was one Canadian guy in florida who voted fraudulently as an American. Incidentally that's one Canadian you can own, to answer the question in your other thread.

    I do think you have to worry about Republicans committing voter fraud by putting up so much red tape in the registration process that some of their opponents won't be able to reach the polls. I don't believe Republicans are sincerely worried about stopping one canadian in florida from illegal voting. It's the legal votes against them they want to stop with all the red tape.

    But if they want to pay for straightforward, secure ID cards that any citizen can easily lay their hands on, I say you should go for it.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte.

  46. #96
    soooooo collllldddd rareboy's Avatar
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    Re: SCOTUS guts the Voter Rightsn Act

    I would so love to see how the Rabid Republicans would be dealing with this issue if it meant disenfranchising the people who might vote for them.

  47. #97
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    Re: SCOTUS guts the Voter Rightsn Act

    We cannot be privy to the changes a party will take and the perverse methods to which they will attempt to hold onto power. Just as republicans were the party of Lincoln and for all his shitty policies Reagan would be considered a RINO by the current bunch of terrorists that call themselves the republican party; I think we should get rid of the 'formula' and apply the Voters Rights Act to every state in the union. Pre-approval does not apply to Ohio but as I recall the republicans there tried relentlessly to alter the voter roles resulting in continuing court cases. That was the case for many states not required to get approval during the last election.

    SO apply the act to them all. A counter I have heard is the idea that if lawsuits worked in places not under the auspices of the VRA then just leave every state to lawsuits BUT there is a simple explanation for why that is faulty thinking. The true damage done at the local level when voter tampering is not looked at with scrutiny every time. A nation election can produce the money and the media attention to keep them honest. However changing a School board zoning in a rural county in Ohio would get no scrutiny no matter how biased. School boards, counties, towns and other small groups are the feeder groups for state parties. That is where change starts when a party wants to gerrymander an entire state. It starts small.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


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    Re: SCOTUS guts the Voter Rightsn Act

    I agree...that was the BIG PROBLEM I had with the Voting Rights Act - that the formula applied to only nine states. The formula was archaic, because it only applied to states which recently had harmed the process, and it made no provision, EVER, for any state which may decide later to harm the process. It needs to apply to EVERY STATE...period.

    If an entire new Voting Rights law must be written, I'll say that IT MUST include a provision that any changes cannot take place until AFTER passage of two years. None of this October Surprise shit with brand-spanking-new laws targeted to disenfranchise mostly Democrats (AS IT **ALWAYS** IS, with no exceptions in decades), not anything like "Voter ID, so that Governor Romney is gonna win Pennsylvania - DONE!" only a few months before the election. There needs to be enough time to scrutinize changes to avoid letting laws stand which destroy the electoral process.

    But, WHO is going to evaluate whether the laws are fair, or restrictive (and discriminatory)?

    The Voting Rights Act should also include standards, such as the certainty of an inviolable paper trail, early voting, and proportional availability of voting facilities so that a Republican electoral machine doesn't install two voting machines to accommodate more than 60,000 people in "Ni....town" (you can BET they routinely fill in the blanks in private, away from the mikes) and three voting machines for every 500 people in Republican districts.

    Again, the Democrats do NOT do this evil shit. They aren't pure, but the actions of Republicans would make a lot of the African and Central American republics envious.
    Capitalize when needed. Did you help your Uncle Jack off a horse, or help your uncle jack off a horse?
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    "All legal U. S. residents who are 18 years or older, shall have an unconditional right to vote." - 28th Amendment, US Constitution?
    I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires" - Susan B. Anthony

  49. #99
    soooooo collllldddd rareboy's Avatar
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    Re: SCOTUS guts the Voter Rightsn Act

    ^ Yeah...who would have thought that Pennsylvania would have joined the same club as Mississippi?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    We cannot be privy to the changes a party will take and the perverse methods to which they will attempt to hold onto power. Just as republicans were the party of Lincoln and for all his shitty policies Reagan would be considered a RINO by the current bunch of terrorists that call themselves the republican party; I think we should get rid of the 'formula' and apply the Voters Rights Act to every state in the union. Pre-approval does not apply to Ohio but as I recall the republicans there tried relentlessly to alter the voter roles resulting in continuing court cases. That was the case for many states not required to get approval during the last election.

    SO apply the act to them all. A counter I have heard is the idea that if lawsuits worked in places not under the auspices of the VRA then just leave every state to lawsuits BUT there is a simple explanation for why that is faulty thinking. The true damage done at the local level when voter tampering is not looked at with scrutiny every time. A nation election can produce the money and the media attention to keep them honest. However changing a School board zoning in a rural county in Ohio would get no scrutiny no matter how biased. School boards, counties, towns and other small groups are the feeder groups for state parties. That is where change starts when a party wants to gerrymander an entire state. It starts small.
    Well stated.

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    Re: SCOTUS guts the Voter Rightsn Act

    There were sections of NYC,Arizona and Alaska covered as well.
    As to your second point Jayhawk,you are dead on. The Religious right take over began at the local level and worked its way up with school boards,then city councils etc.
    It's hwy so many of your youth are still vunerable in many school districts. Becuase the people running them bascially blame the victims for "choosing" to be gay.

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