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  1. #1
    JUB Addict chrisrobin's Avatar
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    Log Cabin Republicons from "Faith and Freedom" Coven

    Tried to listen to exec. from LCR on Alan Colmes radio program. Pathetic.



    LCR: Take your civil unions and shove them.

    In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

  2. #2
    JUB Addict Ninja108's Avatar
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    Re: Log Cabin Republicons from "Faith and Freedom" Coven

    Many LGBT people aren't rich as people believe but suffer in poverty. That isn't the case for GOProud and LCR. THey have enough $$$ to not have to worry about contracts,wills,medical care etc and thus only care about getting richer.
    Thus they will endrose the party that views them as sick people that deserve to burn in hell,the rest of us be damned.
    I have nothing but contempt for them.

  3. #3

    Re: Log Cabin Republicons from "Faith and Freedom" Coven

    I view them as a bunch of ill-informed, over-paid Uncle Toms.

  4. #4
    JUB Addicts Orlandude's Avatar
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    Re: Log Cabin Republicons from "Faith and Freedom" Coven

    LCR doesn't do jack shit for LGBT equality and they're incapable of realizing they are still viewed as "the enemy" by GOP far right conservative social value standards....simply by existing. So they might as well grow a pair and fight and make themselves useful. They'll be targeted anyway. The GOP is notorious for eating its own.

  5. #5
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    Re: Log Cabin Republicons from "Faith and Freedom" Coven

    They have an interesting ad:

    (hope this works)


    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Log Cabin Republicons from "Faith and Freedom" Coven

    Sorry the GOP has NOTHING to offer the LGTB community but hate, bigots and intolerance.

  7. #7
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bike10 View Post
    Sorry the GOP has NOTHING to offer the LGTB community but hate, bigots and intolerance.
    This. Even our dear right wingers have always been deaf and mute on the subject of GOP and LGBT issues.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  8. #8
    JUB Addict chrisrobin's Avatar
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    Re: Log Cabin Republicons from "Faith and Freedom" Coven

    Quote Originally Posted by gaypiper View Post
    I view them as a bunch of ill-informed, over-paid, self-loathing Uncle Toms.
    By the way, what good are they?

    In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

  9. #9
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrobin View Post
    By the way, what good are they?
    Well they provide outlet for confused idiots who are too brainwashed to break free of their parents' party affiliation. Interestingly, I don't think any of our righties here are in it.

    They lost the little credibility they had when they endorsed Romney.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  10. #10
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    Re: Log Cabin Republicons from "Faith and Freedom" Coven

    LCR has it's work cut out for it, and I liked the ad very much, Kuli. The truly disgusting ones are GOProud, which is deception in advertising if there ever was one....what the hell are they proud of? They formed because despite their personal homosexual leanings, the hard right agenda of today's GOP was something they believe stridently in, and separated themselves from the LCR as too moderate and insufficiently committed to the conservative agenda. I'm definitely one of the more conservative posters in this forum comparatively, but I cannot go with the GOP so long as the bigots are driving the agenda. I'm a registered Democrat, moderate in temperament. Not comfortable with the progressive wing in my party on a number of issues... but there isn't a viable alternative party here. Certainly not the ultraconservative GOP of recent years, which is less the type of party desired by the LCR as the truly vile GoProud monstrosity.
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  11. #11

    Re: Log Cabin Republicons from "Faith and Freedom" Coven

    Liberals, including those on this forum, express hatred of those who disagree with themselves,far, far, in excess of any thing I have ever heard from a Republican.

  12. #12
    JUB Addict chrisrobin's Avatar
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    Re: Log Cabin Republicons from "Faith and Freedom" Coven

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Liberals, including those on this forum, express hatred of those who disagree with themselves,far, far, in excess of any thing I have ever heard from a Republican.

    In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

  13. #13
    JUB Addict Ninja108's Avatar
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    Re: Log Cabin Republicons from "Faith and Freedom" Coven

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Liberals, including those on this forum, express hatred of those who disagree with themselves,far, far, in excess of any thing I have ever heard from a Republican.
    That's because you simply choose to ignore the anti-gay hate coming from the Republican party.

  14. #14
    ecce homo rareboy's Avatar
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    Re: Log Cabin Republicons from "Faith and Freedom" Coven

    ^ Quoted for truth.

  15. #15
    JUB Addict Sausy's Avatar
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    Re: Log Cabin Republicons from "Faith and Freedom" Coven

    I'm more on the right relatively speaking here, and I have to say to Benvolio he's either delusional or wearing rose- colored glasses 24/7 if he thinks that truly vile, hateful sentiments against gays don't exist on the right. Deeply ignorant at a minimum and often outright crossing into intolerance and bigotry.
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  16. #16
    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: Log Cabin Republicons from "Faith and Freedom" Coven

    Quote Originally Posted by Sausy View Post
    I'm more on the right relatively speaking here, and I have to say to Benvolio he's either delusional or wearing rose- colored glasses 24/7 if he thinks that truly vile, hateful sentiments against gays don't exist on the right. Deeply ignorant at a minimum and often outright crossing into intolerance and bigotry.
    Accurately expressed. Thank you.

  17. #17

    Re: Log Cabin Republicons from "Faith and Freedom" Coven

    Quote Originally Posted by Sausy View Post
    I'm more on the right relatively speaking here, and I have to say to Benvolio he's either delusional or wearing rose- colored glasses 24/7 if he thinks that truly vile, hateful sentiments against gays don't exist on the right. Deeply ignorant at a minimum and often outright crossing into intolerance and bigotry.
    With him, it's bash immigrants, President Obama & Democrats 24/7. Doesn't matter what the subject is, just bash them.

  18. #18
    JUB Addict Sausy's Avatar
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    Re: Log Cabin Republicons from "Faith and Freedom" Coven

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyBob View Post
    With him, it's bash immigrants, President Obama & Democrats 24/7. Doesn't matter what the subject is, just bash them.
    I'm NO fan of Obama, but his arguments go too far... we do have to make sure immigration reform isn't merely amnesty,forever... but immigration does us great, and without it our own low birth rates will make things damn near impossible for taxpayers to help subsidize our increasing, longer lived elderly population. Immigrants in the main re-energize and build our nation. On the whole his suspicions of Obama and many Democrats are probably are a lot closer to the mark than you want to believe. However his embrace of ultraconservative ideology, his lack of support for liberal democratic values( small "d" and "l" in both cases, not partisan but cultural) undermine any credibility he has with his essentially sound distrust of Obama.
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  19. #19
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    Re: Log Cabin Republicons from "Faith and Freedom" Coven

    It's not often that I agree with one of your posts, Sausy, but that one I wholeheartedly do. I've never considered Obama a good choice for the Democratic Party--I think he's far too conservative. To me, he looks just as shady as most Republicans (note that I did not say conservatives). When comparing to Romney, it's not a matter of better or worse, it's a matter of which one is less bad.

    Of course, I'm coming from the far left here, over in democratic socialism land.

  20. #20

    Re: Log Cabin Republicons from "Faith and Freedom" Coven

    Quote Originally Posted by Sausy View Post
    I'm NO fan of Obama, but his arguments go too far... we do have to make sure immigration reform isn't merely amnesty,forever... but immigration does us great, and without it our own low birth rates will make things damn near impossible for taxpayers to help subsidize our increasing, longer lived elderly population. Immigrants in the main re-energize and build our nation. On the whole his suspicions of Obama and many Democrats are probably are a lot closer to the mark than you want to believe. However his embrace of ultraconservative ideology, his lack of support for liberal democratic values( small "d" and "l" in both cases, not partisan but cultural) undermine any credibility he has with his essentially sound distrust of Obama.
    So, we need immigration to replace the American children being aborted as a result of democrat policies blocking all attempts to limit or discourage abortion. All because activist judges lied about the Constitution.
    We have millions and millions of perpetually poor and unemployed -- as many as 24 million unemployed and underemployed. Wages for low income people have been stagnant for years. The democrat plan to legalize 11 million illegals, and increase the number of is nothing short of criminal. We have absolutely no chance of progress against poverty until we limit the endless flood of ne poor.
    Last edited by Benvolio; June 19th, 2013 at 01:26 PM.

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    Re: Log Cabin Republicons from "Faith and Freedom" Coven

    The only thing I noticed that was different was wages....So you support bringing the minimum wage up?

    Once again, there isn't an endless flood. The US is that great--there's a net increase of 0 illegal immigrants. We lose as many as we gain.

  22. #22

    Re: Log Cabin Republicons from "Faith and Freedom" Coven

    A million a year LEGALLY is an endless flood. And it is nonsense to suggest that as many illegals leave as come.

  23. #23
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    Re: Log Cabin Republicons from "Faith and Freedom" Coven

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    So, we need immigration to replace the American children being aborted as a result of democrat policies blocking all attempts to limit or discourage abortion. All because activist judges lied about the Constitution.
    We have millions and millions of perpetually poor and unemployed -- as many as 24 million unemployed and underemployed. Wages for low income people have been stagnant for years. The democrat plan to legalize 11 million illegals, and increase the number of is nothing short of criminal. We have absolutely no chance of progress against poverty until we limit the endless flood of ne poor.
    The unemployment problem is due to three things: first, the policies of Bush Sr. and Clinton, which led to people ignoring trade schools to go to college; second, the greed of bankers and the complicity of both parties in helping them rip off the American taxpayer; and third, the dedication of the current GOP crop in Congress to making sure that neither of those problems gets fixed.

    If it weren't for these items, we'd have to be offering citizenship to all the illegals just to have enough people for all the jobs the country would have -- and wages would be rising because there would be more jobs than workers.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  24. #24
    Virtus in medio stat JUB Admin opinterph's Avatar
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    Re: Log Cabin Republicons from "Faith and Freedom" Coven

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    A million a year LEGALLY is an endless flood.
    The number of new entries is less than half that number. And to keep things in perspective; there are about nine babies born in the US for each new entry immigrant.

  25. #25

    Re: Log Cabin Republicons from "Faith and Freedom" Coven

    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post
    The number of new entries is less than half that number. And to keep things in perspective; there are about nine babies born in the US for each new entry immigrant.
    Where is that figure from? We generally allow a million immigrants a year. Some to be sure have been here awhile as students or the like, but there is a continuing influx of students and others who will later apply.

  26. #26

    Re: Log Cabin Republicons from "Faith and Freedom" Coven

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    The unemployment problem is due to three things: first, the policies of Bush Sr. and Clinton, which led to people ignoring trade schools to go to college; second, the greed of bankers and the complicity of both parties in helping them rip off the American taxpayer; and third, the dedication of the current GOP crop in Congress to making sure that neither of those problems gets fixed.

    If it weren't for these items, we'd have to be offering citizenship to all the illegals just to have enough people for all the jobs the country would have -- and wages would be rising because there would be more jobs than workers.
    Nonsense, but it hardly justifies continuing to flood the country. Lets stop the immigration until we figure out how to deal with the poor and unemployed we have.

  27. #27
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post

    Nonsense, but it hardly justifies continuing to flood the country. Lets stop the immigration until we figure out how to deal with the poor and unemployed we have.
    Isolationism works great in the modern world. It's the driving force behind progress!
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  28. #28

    Re: Log Cabin Republicons from "Faith and Freedom" Coven

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Isolationism works great in the modern world. It's the driving force behind progress!
    That is not what isolationism means. Look it up. It has nothing to do with immigration and allowing foreigners to steal jobs from our own people.

  29. #29
    JUB Addict chrisrobin's Avatar
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    Re: Log Cabin Republicons from "Faith and Freedom" Coven

    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post
    The number of new entries is less than half that number. And to keep things in perspective; there are about nine babies born in the US for each new entry immigrant.
    Are we taking the deceased into account? Just askin'.

    In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

  30. #30
    Virtus in medio stat JUB Admin opinterph's Avatar
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    Re: Log Cabin Republicons from "Faith and Freedom" Coven

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post
    The number of new entries is less than half that number. And to keep things in perspective; there are about nine babies born in the US for each new entry immigrant.
    Where is that figure from? We generally allow a million immigrants a year. Some to be sure have been here awhile as students or the like, but there is a continuing influx of students and others who will later apply.
    Which figure are you questioning – the 4,000,000 babies or the 400,000 new entrants?

    The “million immigrants” per year represents the number of individuals who are granted lawful permanent resident status – some of whom may also qualify to seek US citizenship.

  31. #31
    Virtus in medio stat JUB Admin opinterph's Avatar
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    Re: Log Cabin Republicons from "Faith and Freedom" Coven

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrobin View Post
    Are we taking the deceased into account? Just askin'.
    I don't understand your question.

  32. #32
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: Log Cabin Republicons from "Faith and Freedom" Coven

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    That is not what isolationism means. Look it up. It has nothing to do with immigration and allowing foreigners to steal jobs from our own people.
    Closing the borders to immigrants IS isolationism. YOU look it up.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  33. #33

    Re: Log Cabin Republicons from "Faith and Freedom" Coven

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Closing the borders to immigrants IS isolationism. YOU look it up.
    Here is the Wikipedia definition:
    Isolationism is the policy or doctrine of isolating one's country from the affairs of other nations by declining to enter into alliances, foreign economic commitments, foreign trade, international agreements, etc., seeking to devote the entire efforts of one's country to its own advancement and remain at peace by avoiding foreign entanglements and responsibilities.

    Source Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isolationism
    Your attempt to call the US isolationist is preposterous. It has nothing to do with immigration.
    Last edited by opinterph; June 21st, 2013 at 10:51 AM. Reason: added source link and quote tags; Refer to CE&P Posting Guidelines

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    Re: Log Cabin Republicons from "Faith and Freedom" Coven

    Look a few lines further down the page to 'protectionism'. In fact, leading up to it, the line goes "Two other terms often associated with Isolationism, but not necessarily the same as Isolationism, are 1. non-interventionism [...] and 2. protectionism [...]"

    Then go to the protectionism page. Item no. 9 under the first heading reads: "Employment-based immigration restrictions, such as labor certification requirements or numerical caps on work visas."

    Since isolationism and protectionism usually come hand in hand, it was not a preposterous statement. Arguing semantics goes nowhere. In a broad sense, isolationism is the proper word to use. Protectionism would be somewhat more accurate, but that particular facet of protectionism involves a degree of isolationism. Separation from international affairs, of which, immigration is ipso facto an international affair.

  35. #35
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: Log Cabin Republicons from "Faith and Freedom" Coven

    Rational thought in action. Benvolio must be really discombobulated now...
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  36. #36

    Re: Log Cabin Republicons from "Faith and Freedom" Coven

    You cannot seriously believe the U S is separating from international affairs. Our millions of poor and unemployed deserve protection. How could that be wrong?

  37. #37

    Re: Log Cabin Republicons from "Faith and Freedom" Coven

    ^Jesus, you are in here ALL the time!

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    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: Log Cabin Republicons from "Faith and Freedom" Coven

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    You cannot seriously believe the U S is separating from international affairs. Our millions of poor and unemployed deserve protection. How could that be wrong?
    You don't have a choice. It's an all or nothing game. Closing your borders to immigration destroys a million other connections you have to the outside world. It's how the game is played.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  39. #39

    Re: Log Cabin Republicons from "Faith and Freedom" Coven

    That is very silly. The US has military personnel stationed in more than 150 countries .No country in history has been less isolationist. We don't need to flood our country to avoid the epithet.

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    JUB Addict chrisrobin's Avatar
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    Re: Log Cabin Republicons from "Faith and Freedom" Coven

    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post
    I don't understand your question.
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrobin View Post
    Are we taking the deceased into account? Just askin'.
    I was trying to look at the "big picture":
    1. Births
    2. Deaths
    3. Those who enter the U.S.
    4. Those who exit.

    This is a difficult concept for some, but certain Mexicans are hesitant to migrate to the U.S. because recently, there has been a decrease in available jobs.

    What is the net total?

    In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

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    JUB Addict chrisrobin's Avatar
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    Re: Log Cabin Republicons from "Faith and Freedom" Coven



    This is the Great Wall of China. Despite being visible from the Space Shuttle, it did not work very well to keep intruders out. If we were to replicate the wall along the Rio Grande, I doubt if it would be any more effective than the original.

    Japan has an illegal immigration problem - and for those who haven't noticed, Japan is a series of islands. One of Japan's dirty little secrets is that after the war, many of the occupying U.S. troops had sexual congress with lovely Japanese maidens. The end result of this was a lot of bi-racial offspring who Japan would rather have lived without (if you catch my meaning). They were sent to South America. Now, these folks would like to get in touch with their "roots". They don't know the language, most are without job skills or visible means of support. Need for unskilled labor is very small and very few Japanese speak Spanish. How do they enter Japan? They fly in. Deporting them is too expensive. Also, because of their Japanese lineage, deportation is very difficult. You think WE'VE got problems?
    Last edited by chrisrobin; June 21st, 2013 at 01:52 PM.

    In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

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    Virtus in medio stat JUB Admin opinterph's Avatar
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    Re: Log Cabin Republicons from "Faith and Freedom" Coven

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrobin View Post
    What is the net total?
    The CIA estimates that net migration to the United States is 3.64 migrants per 1,000 people in the population (or 364 migrants per 100,000 people in the population)

    The net migration rate indicates the contribution of migration to the overall level of population change. The net migration rate does not distinguish between economic migrants, refugees, and other types of migrants nor does it distinguish between lawful migrants and undocumented migrants.

    https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...elds/2112.html
    The US death rate (2010) is 799.5 deaths per 100,000 people in the population. CDC

    The US birth rate (2010) is 13.0 births per 1,000 people in the population (or 1,300 births per 100,000 people in the population). CDC


    Summary per 100,000 Population:

    364 migrants + 1,300 births - 800 deaths = 864 persons added per year per 100,000 people in the population.


    Annual Population Increase Calculation:

    US population (2010) = 308,745,538 Wiki

    308,745,538 * 864 ÷ 100,000 = 2,667,561

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    Re: Log Cabin Republicons from "Faith and Freedom" Coven

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    You cannot seriously believe the U S is separating from international affairs. Our millions of poor and unemployed deserve protection. How could that be wrong?
    No, but closing our borders to immigration would remove us from one very important international affair. We'd still have worldwide presence and participate in international agreements, but that's not where you're trying to go.

    You're still caught up on Rolyo using the word "isolationism". While it's not the best word to use because of it's further meaning, in a literal interpretation it's an decently accurate, if not a bit broad, description. I already went over this. Protectionism would've been far and away a clearer term to use, but the effect is the same. Protectionism, in the sense of protecting domestic business interests, has at certain points been tied to a tightening of immigration.

    For example, look at our Emergency Quota Act of 1921 and how it evolved. It was a protectionist measure that directly affected immigration. It was part of a larger isolationist plan that was fully endorsed by the people. After seeing the mess of WWI, we wanted out of certain foreign affairs. Our Senate rejected the League of Nations because it was contrary to both the popular opinion and the Republican Party's political stance on it (helped in no small part by Wilson refusing to even pretend that anyone else, let alone a Republican, assisted in drafting the 14 Points). Wilson was a genius by all accounts, and his 14 Points were beautiful. Almost works of art. Republicans were split on the issue (irreconciliables and reservationists) and ultimately the treaty was not ratified.

    Wilson's stubbornness to even take a Republican to Versailles and his broken promise ("He kept us out" slogan of 1916's race) led to a series of presidents that epitomized the trifecta of bad economics: protectionist, laissez-faire and unwillingness to act. Harding limited immigration...drastically. Coolidge vetoed a farm subsidy bill 3(?) times on the rationale that farmers had always been poor, so they should stay that way. Hoover gutted structure of the government, like removing unwanted bureaucracy...except he went too far and everything was understaffed and underfunded. Hoover also hesitated (that's being nice) to do anything about the stock market crash and subsequent Depression. He felt that the economy naturally dips and rises and that things would fix themselves. As history shows, he was wrong: it took both a dose of Keynesian economics (which took A LOT of push and shove on the part of FDR) and WWII to get us out.

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    Re: Log Cabin Republicons from "Faith and Freedom" Coven

    Quote Originally Posted by mightbe View Post
    Hoover gutted structure of the government, like removing unwanted bureaucracy...except he went too far and everything was understaffed and underfunded.* Hoover also hesitated (that's being nice) to do anything about the stock market crash and subsequent Depression. He felt that the economy naturally dips and rises and that things would fix themselves. As history shows, he was wrong: it took both a dose of Keynesian economics (which took A LOT of push and shove on the part of FDR) and WWII to get us out.


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    *Please see sequestration.
    Last edited by chrisrobin; June 22nd, 2013 at 10:25 PM.

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    Re: Log Cabin Republicons from "Faith and Freedom" Coven

    Be careful with that.... that could lead one to come to the false conclusion that Hoover's actions (by extension, sequestration) caused the Great Depression. As we all [should] know, many things piling up all at once contributed and similar ones kept it going.
    Last edited by mightbe; June 22nd, 2013 at 10:37 PM.

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    Re: Log Cabin Republicons from "Faith and Freedom" Coven

    Quote Originally Posted by mightbe View Post
    Be careful with that.... that could lead one to come to the false conclusion that Hoover's actions (by extension, sequestration) caused the Great Depression. As we all [should] know, many things piling up all at once contributed and similar ones kept it going.
    I was referring to sequestration-2013. Hoover's "pick yourself up by your bootstraps" was somewhat unsuccessful. The actual Depression was caused by buying stock on margin.

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    Re: Log Cabin Republicons from "Faith and Freedom" Coven

    Yes, but the record shows that some don't do so well when the discussion strays from the literal.

    Hoover's "pick yourself up by your bootstraps" was somewhat unsuccessful. The actual Depression was caused by buying stock on margin.
    Try very unsuccessful. And you've confused the stock market crash with the Depression there...the stock market crash is the usual start date of the Depression, but it holds less significance than is usually ascribed. The farmers entered the Depression in the early 1920s (Victory Gardens from WWI were still popular, and the demand went through the floor after the war). Wall Street entered October 29, 1929 because of fear after the market faltered. From there the situation spiralled downwards but it took a several months for the Wall Street situation to work its way down to the workforce at-large. There are many reasons we had the Great Depression and why it was "the great". There have been countless dissertations over the numerous causes and their relative influences.

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