JustUsBoys.com gay porn forum

logo

Results 1 to 43 of 43
  1. #1
    Porn Star Love me 2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Tucson
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    359

    Code of Conduct

    Proofs for the existence of God

    http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius12/P12EXIST.HTM

    http://www.newadvent.org/summa/1002.htm


    These are two sources that gives a tremendous amount of Information.

  2. #2

    Re: Proofs for the existence of God

    Very good read. But these don't prove that god exists.

    They merely point to uncertainties in our knowledge of the universe. Because something is unexplained, like the start of the big bang, does not mean it is designed by an intelligent being.

    I'll point out something here: Many Christians like to use deductive reasoning to prove the existence of god. But the problem then becomes, whose god do we follow?

    Do we try out each religion until we find one that we like?

    What if we picked the wrong one?

    You see.. By qualifying god's existence, you take away the very mystery of life. Let the universe be weird, surprising, dangerous, all those adjectives. But leave god out of it.

  3. #3
    Porn Star Love me 2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Tucson
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    359

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Proofs for the existence of God

    Quote Originally Posted by vidarr View Post
    Very good read. But these don't prove that god exists.

    They merely point to uncertainties in our knowledge of the universe. Because something is unexplained, like the start of the big bang, does not mean it is designed by an intelligent being.

    I'll point out something here: Many Christians like to use deductive reasoning to prove the existence of god. But the problem then becomes, whose god do we follow?

    Do we try out each religion until we find one that we like?

    What if we picked the wrong one?

    You see.. By qualifying god's existence, you take away the very mystery of life. Let the universe be weird, surprising, dangerous, all those adjectives. But leave god out of it.
    Personally, I don't have to worry about all the "what ifs", because I believe that I have the right one, and I know that by my own experience of God, the Judeo-Christian God, the God of Abram (Abraham), Isaac, Jacob. The Mystery of God, is in how he did it, how he is holding the entire Universe in Balance .

  4. #4
    Sex God
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    607

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Proofs for the existence of God

    I would have to say that neither of those links proves anything. They make plenty conjectures and offer explanations, but there only needs to be one counterexample to prove the conjecture is false. These proofs seem to be aimed at the questioning believer, and not intended to be the be-all, end-all proof for the existence of a supreme deity.

    As an example, Newton observed that any two objects that have mass will gravitate toward each other, supported it with sound reasoning. He supplemented that with many other notable observations and supporting evidence. But, in time it was found to not always be true. After the discovery that Newtonian models were not perfect, a "race" ensued to find a better one. Einstein eventually came up with a model of gravity that has not been disproven. And science will follow that model unless it's shown to be not true.

    Therefore, a statement is either found to be not true or supported (not fact) through experimentation.

    A proof is scientific and inviolable. So far, we have very few true "proofs". We have plenty of supported conjecture, but know very little. As we've put more evidence against the classical portrayal of a supreme deity, religious positions have shifted to include was is universally considered true or obvious.

    As of right now, there is no proof that God exists. However, there is also no proof that he doesn't.
    Last edited by mightbe; June 15th, 2013 at 04:30 PM.

  5. #5
    rip Angalifu
    zoltanspawn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Posts
    4,962
    Blog Entries
    8

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Proofs for the existence of God

    I think there's probably a better experience of god to be had than that derived from the work of reason.
    “Why is it that we rejoice at a birth and grieve at a funeral? It is because we are not the person involved.” ~ Mark Twain

  6. #6
    Porn Star Love me 2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Tucson
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    359

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Proofs for the existence of God

    Quote Originally Posted by zoltanspawn View Post
    I think there's probably a better experience of god to be had than that derived from the work of reason.
    Personal experiences....that is more than enough for me.

  7. #7
    rip Angalifu
    zoltanspawn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Posts
    4,962
    Blog Entries
    8

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Proofs for the existence of God

    Quote Originally Posted by Love me 2 View Post
    Personal experiences....that is more than enough for me.
    If personal experience is sufficient for yourself, then presumably this isn't a question of proofs providing you with a degree of missing rational verisimilitude. That makes sense to me. I think your personal experience is significant.

    You must have then posted the proofs as a means of persuading others.

    My impression is that in the year 2013 people sophisticated enough to read and think about proofs of the existence of god will also be able to read and think about excellent skepticism of the existence of god and ultimately find such proofs lacking. At least mostly.

    These proofs seem like curiosities to me, missing a point altogether, already grasped by you.
    “Why is it that we rejoice at a birth and grieve at a funeral? It is because we are not the person involved.” ~ Mark Twain

  8. #8
    Are u haleloo ya ? Telstra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Australia
    Gender
    Male
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    29,697

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Proofs for the existence of God

    I don't want to read lengthy junk science.
    Where is the proof right here right now ?


    NEVER LISTEN TO A ONE SIDED STORY AND JUDGE.

  9. #9
    rip Angalifu
    zoltanspawn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Posts
    4,962
    Blog Entries
    8

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Proofs for the existence of God

    Quote Originally Posted by Telstra View Post
    I don't want to read lengthy junk science.
    These aren't scientific papers, but philosophical/religious papers.

    If that doesn't interest you, don't read them.
    Last edited by zoltanspawn; June 15th, 2013 at 07:57 PM.
    “Why is it that we rejoice at a birth and grieve at a funeral? It is because we are not the person involved.” ~ Mark Twain

  10. #10
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Beware the deepity.
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Married (to a man)
    Posts
    16,840
    Blog Entries
    2

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Proofs for the existence of God

    Quote Originally Posted by Love me 2 View Post
    Personal experiences....that is more than enough for me.
    Do you not have the least bit of curiosity when other people's personal experiences directly contradict any inferences you could draw from your own?

    I do. I find that sort of thing fascinating.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  11. #11
    Are u haleloo ya ? Telstra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Australia
    Gender
    Male
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    29,697

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Proofs for the existence of God

    Quote Originally Posted by zoltanspawn View Post
    These aren't scientific papers, but philosophical/religious papers.

    If that doesn't interest you, don't read them.
    The title says "Proofs".
    I'm interested in the proof right away ...


    NEVER LISTEN TO A ONE SIDED STORY AND JUDGE.

  12. #12
    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Piraeus, Greece
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Partnered
    Posts
    11,529

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Proofs for the existence of God

    Quote Originally Posted by zoltanspawn View Post
    If personal experience is sufficient for yourself, then presumably this isn't a question of proofs providing you with a degree of missing rational verisimilitude. That makes sense to me. I think your personal experience is significant.

    You must have then posted the proofs as a means of persuading others.

    My impression is that in the year 2013 people sophisticated enough to read and think about proofs of the existence of god will also be able to read and think about excellent skepticism of the existence of god and ultimately find such proofs lacking. At least mostly.

    These proofs seem like curiosities to me, missing a point altogether, already grasped by you.
    On the contrary personal experience is the means by which faith in the divine mystery is grasped sufficiently for the person of faith to want to explore deeper into the divine mystery.

    I agree that personal experience cannot provide the level of proof that the sceptic demands to address their own curiosity fed, by the experiences of those who have been persuaded by personal experience to reach further into the outer regions of their faith led life.

  13. #13

    Re: Proofs for the existence of God

    when faced with a 'question' like the OP, I encourage looking at mythologies themselves, because if you don't your questioning is blind. What was the original methaphor for 'God'---it wasn't male at all (and please don't try and pretend your 'God the Father' aint to be thought of as male), it is a Great Cosmic Mother. This makes sense because we all of us come into this world via mama's womb, as do most species. So likewise very anciently so it was believed that nature and the heavens were a Womb from whence life comes, is preserved in, and returns to. But what the solar and/or patriarchal mythologies did was try and usurp this natural feminine proclivity for delivering life from the womb. And this is clear in the written down recorded myths where women are birthed from the male---which is of course unnatural---Examples, in Genesis the 'the God/creator' has Adam bring forth Eve. In Greek myth Zeus births goddess Hera from his brain.
    This Womb was a Black Womb from whence light is born, and the gods. Not the other way round!

    MAHAKALA - Demon, God or MotherGoddess?

    There are several "steps" patriarchy undertook to "neutralize" powerful Deities from previous periods. The most powerful "Deity" was the Great or Cosmic Mother. Her Omnipotence included the entire universe. In Her Womb both "God" (the Light) and the world are born, the latter continuously returning to their Origin. Her All-Inclusive Nature makes manipulation impossible, hence She is a great "challenge" to all those who's aim it is to manipulate "souls" with the help of the Divine. Not surprisingly thus that the Cosmic Mother is THE target of all power obsessed patriarchal religions. Buddhism isn't an exception to this rule. To the contrary, it did everything to become the dominant religion. Especially in Tibet this has become clear through the many centuries of oppression and persecution of pre-Buddhist Bön people. It is very similar to the behavior of Judaism, Christianity and Islam. After a long period of "crushing enemies" they start showing their "peaceful face". Logically, because in the end no "enemies" are left anymore. To know their true aims you have to know their history. It starts even earlier: with the patriarchalization by Hinduism.
    The key figure is the God Shiva. He is the second part of the trilogy of Creation, Destruction and Preservation. The other Gods are Brahman and Vishnu. It is a clear example of how "Gods" have taken over the function of the original Great Mother. Originally Creation, Destruction and Preservation were the undivided qualities of Her Cosmic Womb. Only in relation to the Womb these Forces make sense! Creation: out of What? Destruction: by What? and Preservation: in what way? Without an underlying Dimension these categories lack coherance. Shiva, Brahma and Vishnu cannot exist on their own. In reality they are all aspects of the underlying Cosmic Womb. Its Bottomless Depth is the Mystery that makes the "Trimurti" possible. History can help us a little. For Shiva is claiming to not only "ruling over" Destruction but also over Creation. Furthermore it is a fact admitted by all scholars that he is a pre-Vedic Deity. Pre-Vedic means before 1500 BCE. The intrigueing thing is, that that era belonged to the Great Mother. E.g. the Enuma Elish in which the definitive end of the Mother (Tiamat killed by the God Marduk) is celebrated, goes back to 1000 BCE. Thus "Shiva" said to be the God of Creation and Destruction was actually a Vegetation God of the Mother: a "dying and resurrecting God" (note the subtle difference with the patriarchal formulation), just like Tammuz, Osiris, Attis and Baal. The "proto-Shiva" - a head with foliage - found at Mohenjo Daro (Indus civilization, 2000 BCE) underlines my point.

    Inherent to all patriarchal Deities is that they claim superiority over all others (think of the "I am a jealous God" of the Bible). This is how Shiva tried to replace the Original Cosmic Mother. To underscore his claim he "did" several things. First of all he appointed himself as the "Great Black One". It was an outrageous act for Black is THE color of the Dark Universal Womb. No God in the world can claim Black as his color. They are ALL Light Deities. If they do, then it is always stolen from their maternal Origin. It proves their greed for power: to replace Mother's rule by their own. Subsequently, one of the other key aspects of the Mother was also copied. The Mother - though the dynamic equilibrium of Creation and Destruction - rules "time". Everything in the universe has a beginning and an end. It is Her Natural Law. In the hands of power greedy Gods "time" became an instrument to intimidate "souls". To ignorant beings it causes (existential) fear. This Angst makes them an easy prey for oppression and manipulation. The Natural Cycle of Birth and Death was subsequently replaced by "Escaping from Birth and Death". While in ancient times everybody accepted the Cosmic Law fearlessly, the patriarchs became obsessed by it. Buddhism can be considered as a collective effort to escape from Natural Law! While Shiva on the other hand... claimed "his" function as the "God of Time". Combine this with "his" Blackness and a new manifestation is born: MAHAKALA: his fear-inspiring Black-Destructive aspect, the "ruler of time".

    The Mother Realm - Her Nothingness Embracing all and everything, without exception - just by non-doing - reminded people of Her Original Nature, though. The Feminine lineage was manifested by the Great Kali, MotherGoddess "of" Hinduism. Typically, Brahmins define Her as the "consort of Shiva", or as the "feminized variant of Mahakala or Great Time, an epithet of the God Shiva" (Wiki) which is an outrageous claim. Then Sri Ramakrishna, the one who devoted his whole life to Her, was much closer to the Truth. He exclaimed: "The night sky between the stars is perfectly black. The waters of the ocean depths are the same. The Infinite is always mysteriously Dark. This inebriating Darkness is my beloved Kali". Images where Kali stands on the dead corpse of Shiva tell the story. She is the Origin, a direct expression of Mother Power, while Her "husband" is "just" a "dying and resurrecting God". Hence, it is time to make things utterly clear. The Universal Mother was usurped by patriarchal religions. They separated and divided Her unified Power in order to be able to manipulate the souls. Today (wo)mankind is experiencing the "Hour of Truth" in which millennia of deceit are exposed. We all want to go back to the Origin, to know about "what Really Is". This in order to become renewed. The latter is a matter of life and death, because we are about to commit collective suicide. So what is more logic but to take refuge in the Origin of "death and rebirth", the Great Black Mother?
    So understanding that, how does the question look now: 'Proofs for the existence of God'?

    OK, this ancient Great Mother was the abiding reality. Not only did you not have to 'prove' Her, because you and everything were born from Her, She was all around as nature and the universe. So what about gods. Well as seen, they naturally were birthed from here and returned to her, and were the ever living, ever dying ever regenerating son/lovers of the Goddess. They were also associated with vegetation, which means the seasons, and cycles, but also the sacred vegetation that we eat and are invited to share the celebration of the Sacred Mystery which is not 'somewhere else' in a heaven away from nature, but always here. The proof of the pudding is in the eating they say lol

  14. #14
    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Piraeus, Greece
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Partnered
    Posts
    11,529

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Proofs for the existence of God

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    Do you not have the least bit of curiosity when other people's personal experiences directly contradict any inferences you could draw from your own?

    I do. I find that sort of thing fascinating.
    That others have not experienced what I am experiencing does not invalidate my experiences.

    No one can directly contradict my experiences, in faith of God for that experience is personal to me, and to me alone.

    My love of my partner is personal to me, and to me, alone. None can share that experience for it is entirely personal to me...therefore no other person can contradict my experience with my partner.

    Any conclusions that I draw from my relationship with the divine mystery are mine to savour therefore I do not expect another person to be able to appreciate what I experience.

    Faith in God is an experience of the individual human person and not a fact of courtroom life that can be judged by a jury of ones peers as truthful or not.

  15. #15
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Beware the deepity.
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Married (to a man)
    Posts
    16,840
    Blog Entries
    2

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Proofs for the existence of God

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    That others have not experienced what I am experiencing does not invalidate my experiences.

    No one can directly contradict my experiences, in faith of God for that experience is personal to me, and to me alone.

    My love of my partner is personal to me, and to me, alone. None can share that experience for it is entirely personal to me...therefore no other person can contradict my experience with my partner.

    Any conclusions that I draw from my relationship with the divine mystery are mine to savour therefore I do not expect another person to be able to appreciate what I experience.

    Faith in God is an experience of the individual human person and not a fact of courtroom life that can be judged by a jury of ones peers as truthful or not.
    And yet it is meaningful to you when other people report having had similar experiences. But if we all live in subjective isolation, no one could directly contradict your experience, but neither could they affirm it or share in it or corroborate it or enrich it.

    Salvation, table for one?
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  16. #16
    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Piraeus, Greece
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Partnered
    Posts
    11,529

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Proofs for the existence of God

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    And yet it is meaningful to you when other people report having had similar experiences. But if we all live in subjective isolation, no one could directly contradict your experience, but neither could they affirm it or share in it or corroborate it or enrich it.

    Salvation, table for one?
    Personal experience is just that...and, speaking just for my self I have never expected anyone to be moved by my experiences...nevertheless, I am not alone at the table for many others have and are sharing similar experiences...

  17. #17
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Beware the deepity.
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Married (to a man)
    Posts
    16,840
    Blog Entries
    2

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Proofs for the existence of God

    well, twice in a row that you've answered a different question than the one asked.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  18. #18
    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Piraeus, Greece
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Partnered
    Posts
    11,529

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Proofs for the existence of God

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    well, twice in a row that you've answered a different question than the one asked.
    Did, I? I must have my eyes tested.

  19. #19
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,110
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Proofs for the existence of God

    Quote Originally Posted by Love me 2 View Post
    http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius12/P12EXIST.HTM

    http://www.newadvent.org/summa/1002.htm


    These are two sources that gives a tremendous amount of Information.
    Far too much Aristotelian philosophy, far too little biblical theology.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  20. #20
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,110
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Proofs for the existence of God

    Quote Originally Posted by mightbe View Post
    A proof is scientific and inviolable.
    Not a universal rule -- it's the foundation of scientism, though.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  21. #21
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,110
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Proofs for the existence of God

    Quote Originally Posted by ludolfo View Post
    OK, this ancient Great Mother was the abiding reality. Not only did you not have to 'prove' Her, because you and everything were born from Her, She was all around as nature and the universe. So what about gods. Well as seen, they naturally were birthed from here and returned to her, and were the ever living, ever dying ever regenerating son/lovers of the Goddess. They were also associated with vegetation, which means the seasons, and cycles, but also the sacred vegetation that we eat and are invited to share the celebration of the Sacred Mystery which is not 'somewhere else' in a heaven away from nature, but always here. The proof of the pudding is in the eating they say lol
    The notion of a cosmic Mother is deficient from the start: a mother is useless without the action of a father.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  22. #22

    Re: Proofs for the existence of God

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    The notion of a cosmic Mother is deficient from the start: a mother is useless without the action of a father.
    is that right? So speaketh the patriarch Kulindhar hey?

    Since when has any father given birth? You totally miss the central point Kulindahr.

  23. #23
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Beware the deepity.
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Married (to a man)
    Posts
    16,840
    Blog Entries
    2

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Proofs for the existence of God

    Yes, the point being that, Naturally™….Evidently™….and Obviously™, a sexually dimorphic species that gives birth is absolutely relevant to the question of whether there is a supernatural conscious entity responsible for our existence, who can operate independently of the laws of physics, as their author, and who cares about our well-being.

    Because any god could not be modelled after a hermaphroditic sea cucumber! That would just be silly!

    Sigh.

    Scientism: a made-up slur, irrelevant to rational discourse, insinuating that science is something other than what it says it is and is thus somehow vaguely sinister or at least arbitrary. It's a straw-man. It would be like pretending there was something called christ-ism lest the arguments against christianity miss their mark. Fortunately atheists see no need to debate christ-ism.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  24. #24
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,110
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Proofs for the existence of God

    Quote Originally Posted by ludolfo View Post
    is that right? So speaketh the patriarch Kulindhar hey?

    Since when has any father given birth? You totally miss the central point Kulindahr.
    "So speaketh" reason and science: mothers don't give birth by themselves; a father is required to kick things off.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  25. #25
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,110
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Proofs for the existence of God

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    Scientism: a made-up slur, irrelevant to rational discourse, insinuating that science is something other than what it says it is and is thus somehow vaguely sinister or at least arbitrary. It's a straw-man. It would be like pretending there was something called christ-ism lest the arguments against christianity miss their mark. Fortunately atheists see no need to debate christ-ism.
    No, scientism is like Aristotelianism: a faith in statements of science without addressing the substance, and therefore making claims that science itself neither does nor can make.

    Believers in scientism abound (they're abundant in a certain thread on this board that purports to involve religion and humor).

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  26. #26
    Sex God
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    607

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Proofs for the existence of God

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Not a universal rule -- it's the foundation of scientism, though.
    But universal rules can be derived from proofs. Frankly, I don't see why religious people should be concerned about science. Science is inherently spiritual and true. And since the statements "God hath made it so" "God maketh no mistake" are central to Christianity, it should stand to reason that Christians be especially interested in science, which, according to their beliefs is how God did it. They should want to know everything about what God did, and since science is truth, it would seem to the perfect branch of study.

    After all, it's more humble to accept what the universe has to teach than it is to stand on a pulpit and say that a book holds the truth.
    Last edited by mightbe; June 20th, 2013 at 12:26 PM.

  27. #27

    Re: Proofs for the existence of God

    ...hmmm. Christianity. Science. (we wont mention the more hidden occult for now. What deep 'sh*t we are in if you only knew!!! I suppose for some ignorance is bliss. But I have the terrible news that even the BEES are under threat of extinction! So this is not just some intellectual exercise as to who is the more one-up intellectual. It is URGENT that we understand what is going on. Like as in when a house is burning down you don't discuss the different types of fire, you act to put it out.

    Science emerges from Christianity. Galileo (father of modern science) shares worldview that there is a 'God/creator' who creates nature/matter/creation which is supposedly fallen and humans are born in sin and need the redemption of Christ to be saved.

    What I am getting at here is that BOTH Church AND Galileo do bot believe in animism---of the belief that spirit is part of nature. So from that premise Church and Galileo make an agreement that The former will focus on the 'spiritual' and the latter on 'matter, and its forces of energy'.

    Fast forward time--------Now science have dispensed with the 'God' and any notion of 'spirit' and more and more the mechanistic myth oppresses one and all, and we are right in it now. WE are supposed to be according to 'science' biological robots who haven't any freewill. nature is dead/insentient, and ,,,well life is meaningless unless you buy the consumer myth of success, and grab what you can while you--a 'fluke of consciousness' (come neuroscientists even question whether consciousness is real!) is here, because when yer dead yer dead.

    What is the driving mythos behind BOTH Christianity and official science? The Patriarchy! The patriarchy that suppressed/suppresses the mythology of the Great Mother. it says like Kuindhar seems to above. Woman is nothing without the male and his sperm. Likewise the patriarchal philosophy says that nature is nothing without the 'male intellect/mind' which is superior to nature (nature has anciently been connected with the Feminine). So some may think mythology is of the past, but we are far deeper than just the rational---we are dreaming beings, and this stuff has deep psychic meaning for us. To not be aware of that, you are driven willy nilly anyhow by any myth that may very well be destructive, if it is antagonistic towards nature.

    The 'God' is the patriarchal male ego in the sky who is a 'jealous god' and will not tolerate any 'images'. IE will not allow the communing with nature. Christians will often say this cliche 'love the creator, not his creation'.

  28. #28
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,110
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Proofs for the existence of God

    Quote Originally Posted by mightbe View Post
    Frankly, I don't see why religious people should be concerned about science. Science is inherently spiritual and true. And since the statements "God hath made it so" "God maketh no mistake" are central to Christianity, it should stand to reason that Christians be especially interested in science, which, according to their beliefs is how God did it. They should want to know everything about what God did, and since science is truth, it would seem to the perfect branch of study.
    Exactly. The Old Testament has chorus after chorus about how fantastic and wonderful Creation is, inviting mankind to investigate it and learn from it and celebrate it with God. Nature is described on both portions of the Bible as something God made to take joy from, so it's just simple sense to want to study it ad share the joy.

    Quote Originally Posted by mightbe View Post
    After all, it's more humble to accept what the universe has to teach than it is to stand on a pulpit and say that a book holds the truth.
    No, both are humble, because both are really the same thing: taking a set of data and delving into it.

    The problem arises when in either field someone decides it's the total source of all truth... and then proceeds to stop investigating, assuming that his or her present understanding is All There Is. Ironically, in both cases it's those most ignorant who are most close-minded and ignorant.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  29. #29
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,110
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Proofs for the existence of God

    Quote Originally Posted by ludolfo View Post
    The 'God' is the patriarchal male ego in the sky who is a 'jealous god' and will not tolerate any 'images'. IE will not allow the communing with nature. Christians will often say this cliche 'love the creator, not his creation'.
    Forbidding images (BTW, that's not one of the Ten Commandments, as is commonly [mis]conceived) has nothing to do with "not allow[ing] the communing with nature". The Old Testament calls people to "clap your hands!" and celebrate -- the very same thing it describes nature as doing! The message is to stand with nature, join with the nature of which we are a part, and celebrate our common existence as, well, existing.

    I have never before heard anyone say what you claim, let alone any Christian. The Bible sets out that the whole point of mankind existing is to be part of nature, to take care of it as its premier part. According to the Bible, celebrating Creation is celebrating the Creator.

    That's where my impulse to conservation comes from: God put us here to live with nature and be good to it. Any other position is an insult to God, since He made every single part of it for His enjoyment, from mountain to moon, from bacterium to black hole.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  30. #30
    rip Angalifu
    zoltanspawn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Posts
    4,962
    Blog Entries
    8

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Proofs for the existence of God

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    The problem arises when in either field someone decides it's the total source of all truth... and then proceeds to stop investigating, assuming that his or her present understanding is All There Is. Ironically, in both cases it's those most ignorant who are most close-minded and ignorant.
    Yes, I agree. And I further think we ought to be able to move with more fluidity between hard accounts of the facts, and notions of meaning and significance. Or you could say, between hard notions of meaning, and accounts of the facts.

    For example, I like it neither when people adopt as a total account of the truth that the literal resurrection of christ is the best explanation of events (outside of a ritual setting), nor when people assert that the resurrection of christ ought not be considered a meaningful event (outside of a specifically factual venue).

    When I read this forum, I admire most those members in whom I can identify a real negotiation of the senses of truth, and that includes both atheists and the faithful.
    “Why is it that we rejoice at a birth and grieve at a funeral? It is because we are not the person involved.” ~ Mark Twain

  31. #31

    Re: Proofs for the existence of God

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Forbidding images (BTW, that's not one of the Ten Commandments, as is commonly [mis]conceived) has nothing to do with "not allow[ing] the communing with nature". The Old Testament calls people to "clap your hands!" and celebrate -- the very same thing it describes nature as doing! The message is to stand with nature, join with the nature of which we are a part, and celebrate our common existence as, well, existing.

    I have never before heard anyone say what you claim, let alone any Christian. The Bible sets out that the whole point of mankind existing is to be part of nature, to take care of it as its premier part. According to the Bible, celebrating Creation is celebrating the Creator.

    That's where my impulse to conservation comes from: God put us here to live with nature and be good to it. Any other position is an insult to God, since He made every single part of it for His enjoyment, from mountain to moon, from bacterium to black hole.
    Again, a typical patriarchal move. Just say it is so and it will be and puit it in history books because we said so. This in modern terms is 'perception management' or 'controlling the narrative'. The patriarchal mythologists have been up to this for hundreds of years via their toxic myths. It is the deepest form of denial. Many people have been persecuted, tortured, and killed for the 'sin' or believing something different than the fukin Christian belief. Pagan people---remember them---are not unfamiliar with reverence for Mother Earth and making IMAGES of the Goddess etc to worship...? This is class 101 mate. I think you have some learning to catch up on!

    The Catholic church to this day refuses to apologize for its persecution of pagans:

    Background:

    Since ca 395 AD, with the Codex Theodosius, Pagans have been persecuted by the Roman Catholic Church as it became the dominant religion.

    Forced conversions to Christianity, torture and death of resisters, destruction of Pagan property, sacred sites, symbols, wealth, literature, etc. - as well as Christianizations (Christian claiming of Pagan property, symbols, celebrations) -- are some of the persecutions that Pagans have suffered at the hands of the Church.

    The Inquisition in particular targeted Witches and those accused of Witchcraft with such vehemence that the term "Witch Hunt" has become synonymous with both religious and political persecution.

    Anti-Pagan and anti-Witchcraft propaganda produced by the Inquisition continues to negatively influence how Pagans and Witches are perceived by the public today.

    Although Witches, Wiccans, and others who are part of contemporary Paganism do not worship the devil and do not engage in malevolent spiritual activities, false stereotypes about this, which are rooted in Inquisition anti-Witch propaganda persist. ...

    The text of the letter to Pope John Paul II

    Pagans in Action: Council for Truth
    1373 Dunbarton Road
    Montgomery, AL 36117

    Samhain (October 31), 1999

    His Holiness, Pope John Paul II
    Vatican City

    Your Holiness:

    The signatories to this letter have become aware that your advisors in the Vatican are working on a formal Apology to the Protestant Christians, Jews and Muslims for the persecution these groups suffered at the hands of the Catholic Church during the centuries of the Inquisition. It is our understanding that you will formally present this Apology at the opening of the Holy Year 2000 Grand Jubilee, following a penitential procession from the Basilica of Santa Sabina to Rome's Circus Maximus, where you will call for forgiveness for the historic failings of the Church. This is a brave and laudable effort, heralding the beginning of a great healing between the Catholic Church and the groups that have, historically, been persecuted in its name.

    We note however, that early news releases concerning this event have not indicated that those accused of being Witches, and those indigenous (i.e. "Pagan") peoples who were forcibly converted by the Church will be included in your apology. This letter is a formal request for that omission to be rectified. As leaders of the contemporary Pagan/Wiccan community, we sincerely hope that Your Holiness will lead the way to mutual respect for all religions and spiritual paths by including all those who suffered from the tragedy of the Inquisition.

    Modern Pagans, including many identified as Witches and Druids, comprise a global spiritual movement that draws its inspiration and traditions from indigenous pre-Christian religions. In the name of our spiritual ancestors who suffered persecution during the Inquisition, we respectfully request inclusion of Pagans and Witches in your Apology Address.

    Sincerely Yours,

    [1,639 Signatories] source

  32. #32
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,110
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Proofs for the existence of God

    Quote Originally Posted by ludolfo View Post
    Again, a typical patriarchal move. Just say it is so and it will be and puit it in history books because we said so. This in modern terms is 'perception management' or 'controlling the narrative'. The patriarchal mythologists have been up to this for hundreds of years via their toxic myths. It is the deepest form of denial. Many people have been persecuted, tortured, and killed for the 'sin' or believing something different than the fukin Christian belief. Pagan people---remember them---are not unfamiliar with reverence for Mother Earth and making IMAGES of the Goddess etc to worship...? This is class 101 mate. I think you have some learning to catch up on!

    The Catholic church to this day refuses to apologize for its persecution of pagans:
    Fascinating. Your response has nothing to do with my post.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  33. #33

    Re: Proofs for the existence of God

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Fascinating. Your response has nothing to do with my post.
    of course it does, but I am afraid you cannot see it.

  34. #34
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,110
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Proofs for the existence of God

    Quote Originally Posted by ludolfo View Post
    of course it does, but I am afraid you cannot see it.
    No, it doesn't. I pointed out actual information about the situation, and you answered with an ideological spiel. You didn't address the content of my post, you didn't provide any evidence for the ridiculous claim you made, and you didn't respond at all to my final paragraph, where I shared a personal aspect.

    You sounded, in fact, like a Tea Party advocate.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  35. #35

    Re: Proofs for the existence of God

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    No, it doesn't. I pointed out actual information about the situation, and you answered with an ideological spiel. You didn't address the content of my post, you didn't provide any evidence for the ridiculous claim you made, and you didn't respond at all to my final paragraph, where I shared a personal aspect.

    You sounded, in fact, like a Tea Party advocate.
    Your 'the old testament' asks people to 'clap their hands' is freakin hillarious. That is supposed to counter what I presented is it? More people than me know that Judeo Christianity as definitely NOT Goddess friendly. It is androcentric, and the 'God' is NOT to be confused with 'his' creation. The fact you have not encountered believers in that worldview saying 'love the creator not his creation' is obviously because you do not accept what I beli9eve and so dont encounter other criticizing it, because you believe what they do....duh

    OK, First Commandment: " I am the Lord thay God. Thou shalt have no other gods before me" (Exod. 20: 2-3)

    The Second Commandment: "Thou shalt not make thee any graven image , or any likeness of any thing that is to heaven above, or that is the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth" (Exod. 20:4)

    What is it you cannot understand...?

    In its Abrahamic branch, Islam, there again no images are allowed!

    You 'God' claims that human kind's ancestors Adam and Eve committed a sin in the Garden of Eden and he then had to have his Only Son tortured and crucified to pay off the debt. He gave 'dominion' OVER nature to Adam. It is not the same at all as the indigenous, and earth-centred pagan animistic understanding of nature.

    Where you getting your info from?

  36. #36
    Porn Star Love me 2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Tucson
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    359

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Proofs for the existence of God

    Quote Originally Posted by ludolfo View Post
    Your 'the old testament' asks people to 'clap their hands' is freakin hillarious. That is supposed to counter what I presented is it? More people than me know that Judeo Christianity as definitely NOT Goddess friendly. It is androcentric, and the 'God' is NOT to be confused with 'his' creation. The fact you have not encountered believers in that worldview saying 'love the creator not his creation' is obviously because you do not accept what I beli9eve and so dont encounter other criticizing it, because you believe what they do....duh

    OK, First Commandment: " I am the Lord thay God. Thou shalt have no other gods before me" (Exod. 20: 2-3)

    The Second Commandment: "Thou shalt not make thee any graven image , or any likeness of any thing that is to heaven above, or that is the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth" (Exod. 20:4)

    What is it you cannot understand...?

    In its Abrahamic branch, Islam, there again no images are allowed!

    You 'God' claims that human kind's ancestors Adam and Eve committed a sin in the Garden of Eden and he then had to have his Only Son tortured and crucified to pay off the debt. He gave 'dominion' OVER nature to Adam. It is not the same at all as the indigenous, and earth-centred pagan animistic understanding of nature.

    Where you getting your info from?
    You are so right....Catholicism, along with all the other Mainstream Christianity (especially those who are Liturgical), are not goddessses friendly at all. Now, about Images...What do you make of the fact that God did instruct that there be two Angel figures on the Arc of the Covenant, one at each end , etc? Oh, and Moses Staff with the Serpant on it (another one ordered by God). Christianity has images that reminds us of who is in heaven, like having pictures of Families on the Piano or Fireplace mantle. We don't worship the images.

  37. #37
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,110
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Proofs for the existence of God

    Quote Originally Posted by ludolfo View Post
    Your 'the old testament' asks people to 'clap their hands' is freakin hillarious. That is supposed to counter what I presented is it? More people than me know that Judeo Christianity as definitely NOT Goddess friendly.
    Now you change the subject -- what the frak does "goddess" have anything to do with the relationship between the biblical God and nature?

    And yes, if you have any powers of critical thinking, the fact that God tells people to do the same thing nature does is highly important.

    Quote Originally Posted by ludolfo View Post
    It is androcentric, and the 'God' is NOT to be confused with 'his' creation. The fact you have not encountered believers in that worldview saying 'love the creator not his creation' is obviously because you do not accept what I beli9eve and so dont encounter other criticizing it, because you believe what they do....duh
    No, I haven't encountered it because no one says it. The numbers of times it's used on the web is in double digits, and the appearances are not independent at all -- and not a single one of those web occurrences is from anyone saying it, only from people arguing against it.

    By standard rules of scholarship, the best bet is that you invented it.

    Quote Originally Posted by ludolfo View Post
    OK, First Commandment: " I am the Lord thay God. Thou shalt have no other gods before me" (Exod. 20: 2-3)

    The Second Commandment: "Thou shalt not make thee any graven image , or any likeness of any thing that is to heaven above, or that is the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth" (Exod. 20:4)
    The second statement above is not a commandment -- anyone with a basic ability to reason can tell that, because within mere chapters God turns around and commands them to make images,,,,,,,,, of things in heaven, and things on earth.

    And the first statement is merely logical. Any number between one and infinity for an origin of all things is ridiculous.

    Quote Originally Posted by ludolfo View Post
    You 'God' claims that human kind's ancestors Adam and Eve committed a sin in the Garden of Eden and he then had to have his Only Son tortured and crucified to pay off the debt. He gave 'dominion' OVER nature to Adam. It is not the same at all as the indigenous, and earth-centred pagan animistic understanding of nature.
    The teaching ab out original sin is evident all around us: humans are selfish, cruel, and screw things up even when they have the best of intentions.

    As for "dominion", well, a cook has dominion over his soup, but the customer expects that to mean that the cook will do the very best possible to make the very best soup possible, From the ancient rabbis I was privileged to translate from when studying Hebrew, that's what God gave Adam: the privilege of caring for all of Creation and making it as good as possible. So it's actually at least as good as any animistic view of nature, because it doesn't give mankind any permission at all to abuse nature: nature belongs to God, and man's job is to take care of it to the best of his ability.

    Quote Originally Posted by ludolfo View Post
    Where you getting your info from?
    It's this book called "the Bible" -- but not as abused by Latin thinkers (especially since Thomas Aquinas).

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  38. #38
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,110
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Proofs for the existence of God

    Quote Originally Posted by Love me 2 View Post
    Now, about Images...What do you make of the fact that God did instruct that there be two Angel figures on the Arc of the Covenant, one at each end , etc? Oh, and Moses Staff with the Serpant on it (another one ordered by God). Christianity has images that reminds us of who is in heaven, like having pictures of Families on the Piano or Fireplace mantle. We don't worship the images.
    Bingo!

    God orders the making of images; ergo, the statement about images is not to be numbered among the Ten Words -- it's merely a commentary on the prohibition of other gods.

    BTW, even that prohibition isn't absolute as commonly understood: it says no other gods "before" or "beside". Given that the Psalms more than once refer to other gods, and Jesus even cites a passage naming all of God's people as gods ("You are gods; you are all sons of the Most High."), it does not mean there are not lesser beings which exercise power, it merely means that they are all created by God. These powers are to be honored because their authority comes from God.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  39. #39
    On the Prowl Nemothepanda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Spring Lake
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    91

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Proofs for the existence of God

    What about Brahma or Amaterasu? The Jade Emperor? Zeus. There are as many people thinking that these gods exist too.

  40. #40
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,110
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Proofs for the existence of God

    ^
    "Deities" that are obviously just parts of the universe, e.g. your latter two above, have no claim to being considered a/the supreme being. Any actual Supreme Being has to be Creator of all.

    - - - Updated - - -

    ^
    "Deities" that are obviously just parts of the universe, e.g. your latter two above, have no claim to being considered a/the supreme being. Any actual Supreme Being has to be Creator of all.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  41. #41
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Beware the deepity.
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Married (to a man)
    Posts
    16,840
    Blog Entries
    2

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Proofs for the existence of God

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    ^
    "Deities" that are obviously just parts of the universe, e.g. your latter two above, have no claim to being considered a/the supreme being. Any actual Supreme Being has to be Creator of all.

    - - - Updated - - -

    ^
    "Deities" that are obviously just parts of the universe, e.g. your latter two above, have no claim to being considered a/the supreme being. Any actual Supreme Being has to be Creator of all.
    You are imagining or wishing for your statement to be obvious.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  42. #42
    On the Prowl Nemothepanda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Spring Lake
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    91

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Proofs for the existence of God

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    ^
    "Deities" that are obviously just parts of the universe, e.g. your latter two above, have no claim to being considered a/the supreme being. Any actual Supreme Being has to be Creator of all.

    - - - Updated - - -

    ^
    "Deities" that are obviously just parts of the universe, e.g. your latter two above, have no claim to being considered a/the supreme being. Any actual Supreme Being has to be Creator of all.

    Uhh...Zeus and the Jade Emperor are the heads of their respective pantheons, as is Amaterasu; they're the holiest, purist, most powerful forces to their worshipers. All other gods are worthless to them, and depend on these deities for authority and purpose.

    My point is that you can't say god of so-so religion is real because so and so, when there are other religions that claim the same for their gods. It's a pointless argument.

  43. #43

    Re: Proofs for the existence of God

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Now you change the subject -- what the frak does "goddess" have anything to do with the relationship between the biblical God and nature?
    I presented a link to show you clearly. Did you miss it? As it says, the metaphor of a Great Mother and Womb precedes a concept of a supernatural 'Father'. Most people who know mythology know this. You apparently don't.
    So you actually believe in a father God Creator in heaven do you?

    And yes, if you have any powers of critical thinking, the fact that God tells people to do the same thing nature does is highly important.
    The patriarchal God condemns nature in the 'creation myth' because of the disobedience of Adam and Eve


    No, I haven't encountered it because no one says it. The numbers of times it's used on the web is in double digits, and the appearances are not independent at all -- and not a single one of those web occurrences is from anyone saying it, only from people arguing against it.
    I have heard it more than several times. You should get out more. Have you also missed the homophobic cliche "God didn't make Adam and Steve, he made Adam and Eve"?

    By standard rules of scholarship, the best bet is that you invented it.
    I don't know why I make effort with you. You irritate me.



    The second statement above is not a commandment -- anyone with a basic ability to reason can tell that, because within mere chapters God turns around and commands them to make images,,,,,,,,, of things in heaven, and things on earth.
    Stop it with you insulting innuendos!
    Well your God is one fukin contradiction aint he then? Typical tyrannical capricious male ego.

    And the first statement is merely logical. Any number between one and infinity for an origin of all things is ridiculous.
    Oh right so that doesn't connect with his 'I am a jealous god' huh clever clogs?


    The teaching ab out original sin is evident all around us: humans are selfish, cruel, and screw things up even when they have the best of intentions.
    Because of toxic myths like the one you support.

    As for "dominion", well, a cook has dominion over his soup, but the customer expects that to mean that the cook will do the very best possible to make the very best soup possible, From the ancient rabbis I was privileged to translate from when studying Hebrew, that's what God gave Adam: the privilege of caring for all of Creation and making it as good as possible. So it's actually at least as good as any animistic view of nature, because it doesn't give mankind any permission at all to abuse nature: nature belongs to God, and man's job is to take care of it to the best of his ability.
    You are just an apologist for a toxic myth, and thus are in denial just how toxic it is. I am not. I can see the influence of that myth and hos even when people pretend to have left it, its principles become unconscious and act out causing further abuse all around.



    It's this book called "the Bible" -- but not as abused by Latin thinkers (especially since Thomas Aquinas).
    A book fit for burning along with the Koran etc!
    Last edited by opinterph; June 28th, 2013 at 06:38 AM. Reason: fixed quote tags

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Terms of Service | Privacy Policy | About JustUsBoys.com | Site Map | RSS | Webmasters | Advertise | Link to JUB | Report A Bug on this Page

Visit our sister sites: Broke Straight Boys | CollegeDudes.com | CollegeBoyPhysicals.com | RocketTube
All models appearing on JustUsBoys.com were over 18 at the time of photography. The records for sexually explicit images required by U.S. 2257 are kept by the
individual producers of the images. The location of the records is available by clicking the Custodian of Records link at the bottom of each gallery page.
© 2012 JustUsBoys.com. The JustUsBoys.com name and logo are registered trademarks. Labeled with ICRA and RTA. Member of ASACP and The Free Speech Coalition.