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  1. #1
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    PRISM: NSA/FBI Mining Internet Data since 2007

    Since 2007 NSA and the FBI have been mining internet data.

    The National Security Agency and the FBI are tapping directly into the central servers of nine leading U.S. Internet companies, extracting audio, video, photographs, e-mails, documents and connection logs that enable analysts to track a person’s movements and contacts over time.

    The highly classified program, code-named PRISM, has not been disclosed publicly before. Its establishment in 2007 and six years of exponential growth took place beneath the surface of a roiling debate over the boundaries of surveillance and privacy. Even late last year, when critics of the foreign intelligence statute argued for changes, the only members of Congress who knew about PRISM were bound by oaths of office to hold their tongues.
    ....
    The technology companies, which participate knowingly in PRISM operations, include most of the dominant global players of Silicon Valley. They are listed on a roster that bears their logos in order of entry into the program: “Microsoft, Yahoo, Google, Facebook, PalTalk, AOL, Skype, YouTube, Apple.” PalTalk, although much smaller, has hosted significant traffic during the Arab Spring and in the ongoing Syrian civil war.
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/invest...497_story.html (6/6/2013)(bolding by OP)

    *OP has to really really think about this some*

  2. #2
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    Re: PRISM: NSA/FBI Mining Internet Data since 2007

    Before PRISM there was " Thin Thread " Google - Thomas Drake

  3. #3
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    Re: PRISM: NSA/FBI Mining Internet Data since 2007

    Quote Originally Posted by chuck10x View Post
    Before PRISM there was " Thin Thread " Google - Thomas Drake
    For information and background:

    Thin Thread:

    ThinThread is the name of a project that the United States National Security Agency pursued during the 1990s, according to a May 17, 2006 article in the Baltimore Sun. The program involved wiretapping and sophisticated analysis of the resulting data, but according to the article, the program was discontinued after the September 11, 2001 attacks due to the changes in priorities and the consolidation of U.S. intelligence authority. The "change in priority" consisted of the decision made by the Director of NSA Gen. Michael V. Hayden to go with a concept called Trailblazer, despite the fact that ThinThread was a working prototype that protected the privacy of U.S. citizens.

    ThinThread was dismissed and replaced by the Trailblazer Project, which lacked the privacy protections. A consortium led by Science Applications International Corporation was awarded a $280 million contract to develop Trailblazer in 2002.[3]
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ThinThread

    Trailblazer:

    Trailblazer was a United States National Security Agency (NSA) program intended to develop a capability to analyze data carried on communications networks like the Internet. It was intended to track entities using communication methods such as cell phones and e-mail.[1][2] It ran over budget, failed to accomplish critical goals, and was cancelled.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trailblazer_Project

    Thomas Andrews Drake:

    Thomas Andrews Drake (born 1957) is a former senior executive of the U.S. National Security Agency (NSA) ... . He is also a whistleblower. In 2010 the government alleged that Drake 'mishandled' documents, one of the few such Espionage Act cases in U.S. history. Drake's defenders claim that he was instead being persecuted for challenging the Trailblazer Project. ....

    On June 9, 2011, all 10 original charges against him were dropped. Drake rejected several deals because he refused to "plea bargain with the truth". He eventually pled to one misdemeanor count for exceeding authorized use of a computer; ... .
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Andrews_Drake

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    FBI and NSA targeting Internet companies beause its the easiest way to spy on Americans

    FBI and NSA targeting Internet companies beause its the easiest way to spy on Americans

    http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/06/06/intel...net-companies/


  5. #5

    Re: PRISM: NSA/FBI Mining Internet Data since 2007

    It's ok. Obama is doing it.

  6. #6
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    Re: PRISM: NSA/FBI Mining Internet Data since 2007

    I don't see that there is an expectation of privacy for what is put on the internet. Accordingly there is no violation of the Fourth Amendment in the government procuring it.

    http://www.oyez.org/cases/1970-1979/1978/1978_78_5374/
    Smith vs. Maryland, 442 U.S. 735, 736 (1979)

    https://ssd.eff.org/your-computer/govt/privacy

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    Re: PRISM: NSA/FBI Mining Internet Data since 2007

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    It's ok. Obama is doing it.
    That does not advance the discussion.

  8. #8

    Re: PRISM: NSA/FBI Mining Internet Data since 2007

    Rather pitiful there are so few post in this thread. No one seems to care that they are loosing their freedoms little by little.

    It is time to repeal the Patriot Act. It would do little harm to intelligence gathering as I feel sure all of the intelligence agencies would continue the practice, it just wouldn't have legal standing.

  9. #9
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    Re: PRISM: NSA/FBI Mining Internet Data since 2007

    We lost all our freedoms under Bush, Obama not only did not repeal any of Bush's policies he expanded them to a level the Republicans could not even dream of.
    Once a policy is passed - There is no going back.
    Obama has gotten a pass for too long because he is a "liberal Democrat".
    When we have another Republican president only then will Liberal Democrats complain.
    Too late, As everything will be justified by saying - Obama did it for 8 years

  10. #10
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    Re: PRISM: NSA/FBI Mining Internet Data since 2007

    How do we lose any freedom if the government looks at material on the internet? That material is voluntary, never goes away, and is free to look at if one only goes to the trouble. What would be different if the government set up a gazillion computer stations and proceeded to download everything? In truth, nothing.

    This discussion should be about policy on how the information is used.

  11. #11
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    Re: PRISM: NSA/FBI Mining Internet Data since 2007

    Time to put a (Benjamin) Franklinesque motto on our currency, and stamp it on our government: MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  12. #12
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    Re: PRISM: NSA/FBI Mining Internet Data since 2007

    Quote Originally Posted by chuck10x View Post
    When we have another Republican president only then will Liberal Democrats complain.
    We have a Republican president NOW.

    Obama, and the first George Bush 1989-1993, are similar in many ways.

    Except for the third rail of gay rights, Obama would have been blessed by the Republicans if it had been him instead of Bush running in 1988 (BUT if he ran on what he would eventually do in office...and, oh wait, he's Black).
    "All legal U. S. residents who are 18 years or older, shall have an unconditional right to vote." - We need a 28th Amendment to the U. S. Constitution which resembles this...NOW!

    VOTING: Just remember: "Be careful of what you DON'T wish for. You might just get it." GET OUT AND VOTE for what you DO wish for.

    "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires" - Susan B. Anthony

  13. #13
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    Re: PRISM: NSA/FBI Mining Internet Data since 2007

    I guess people need to start reading those fine prints on all the phone contracts and anytime you join a site but people will never read those multiple page contracts. There could be a clause on this site when you joined. Nothing on the internet is private anymore unless you keep it to yourself.
    He got that thickness, the kind that make you get up makin' biscuits with breakfast, so gone - Jill Scott - So Gone

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    Re: PRISM: NSA/FBI Mining Internet Data since 2007

    What is pitiful is the midless waking up to the patriot act and all the included provisions and saying... OMG!!!.... that is what is pitiful.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


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    Re: PRISM: NSA/FBI Mining Internet Data since 2007

    PRISM: NSA/FBI Mining Internet Data since 2007
    I can just see it now.

    A slick PR/advertising campaign from the NSA:

    Your NATIONAL SECURITY AGENCY!

    Now in alliance and partnership with the DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE!

    You forgot that really cool website you went to in late 2009? We have it stored, especially for YOU!

    Providing a SECURE AND SECRET backup source, for ALL of your favorite messages and communications. PRISM provides you a veritable "rainbow" of message retention.

    [psst...but if you actually want to retrieve these old messages, don't bother.]

    AT YOUR SERVICE since 2007!!!!!!!!!
    "All legal U. S. residents who are 18 years or older, shall have an unconditional right to vote." - We need a 28th Amendment to the U. S. Constitution which resembles this...NOW!

    VOTING: Just remember: "Be careful of what you DON'T wish for. You might just get it." GET OUT AND VOTE for what you DO wish for.

    "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires" - Susan B. Anthony

  16. #16

    Re: PRISM: NSA/FBI Mining Internet Data since 2007

    What's insane -- why did the Administration get a court order to seize phone records of Rosen and AP when they already have that information plus much more?

    If this was Bush -- most of you guys will be calling for Bush's impeachment or sending him to prison.

    ... just a little hypocritical, huh.
    Last edited by Jack Springer; June 7th, 2013 at 05:37 PM.

  17. #17
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    Re: PRISM: NSA/FBI Mining Internet Data since 2007

    I find it laughable that so many of the people whom rubberstamped this are now acting outraged that it's being used the way people warned it would be.

  18. #18
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    Re: PRISM: NSA/FBI Mining Internet Data since 2007

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    What is pitiful is the midless waking up to the patriot act and all the included provisions and saying... OMG!!!.... that is what is pitiful.
    Nah, they'll just rant about it on a social media platform for irony's sake.

  19. #19

    Re: PRISM: NSA/FBI Mining Internet Data since 2007

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja108 View Post
    I find it laughable that so many of the people whom rubberstamped this are now acting outraged that it's being used the way people warned it would be.
    ... and people who were upset with it during the last Administration are peachy keen with it now.

  20. #20
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    Re: PRISM: NSA/FBI Mining Internet Data since 2007

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    ... and people who were upset with it during the last Administration are peachy keen with it now.
    What "people"? Because I certainly am not. I suppose YOU are peachy keen with it, correct?



  21. #21
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    Re: PRISM: NSA/FBI Mining Internet Data since 2007

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    What's insane -- why did the Administration get a court order to seize phone records of Rosen and AP when they already have that information plus much more?

    If this was Bush -- most of you guys will be calling for Bush's impeachment or sending him to prison.

    ... just a little hypocritical, huh.
    Because one is phone records to be used in a legal leak investigation and the other is a portion of a massive data base that points to suspicious activity but doesn't necessarily single out a specific person UNLESS that phone number behaves in a foreign manner as defined by NSA.

    I neither jumped for joy nor till I clucth my pearls when Bush did it and I certainly haven't changed. The only thing that has changed is the Rand Paul types who can go... OMG the kenayn socialist is doing THIS to you america.... can ya believe it?
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
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  22. #22

    Re: PRISM: NSA/FBI Mining Internet Data since 2007

    ^^^

    I don't hear you calling for Obama to quit, be impeached, be censured or anything else.

    Where's the anger?

  23. #23
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    Re: PRISM: NSA/FBI Mining Internet Data since 2007

    Didn't call for Bush to be impeached... are you aying you are calling for Obama to be impeached? Why didnt you ask for Bush's head?
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


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    Re: PRISM: NSA/FBI Mining Internet Data since 2007

    A call for Obama's impeachment would be premature.

    As far as is known the decision extending NSA's mandate to the domestic sphere was made by a court exercising its independent judgment.

  25. #25
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    Re: PRISM: NSA/FBI Mining Internet Data since 2007

    With the full knowledge of the congress. That is something republican talking about this ALWAYS fail to mention is that members of BOTH parties are out there excusing this behavior as non intrusive and necessary.

    They cannot impeach Obama because they would put themselves on trial.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  26. #26
    panegyric JUB Admin Corny's Avatar
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    Re: PRISM: NSA/FBI Mining Internet Data since 2007

    Quote Originally Posted by palbert View Post
    How do we lose any freedom if the government looks at material on the internet? That material is voluntary, never goes away, and is free to look at if one only goes to the trouble.
    Err what? Not sure if you're grasping what's going on here. The material/data in question is NOT free to look at for anyone. I wouldn't care much if the government checks what I post here, publically. But what your govenrment does here is reading your PMs here as well. (No, they do not do that, at least not on the JUB level, but they might do it on an ISP level). They listen to your private skype calls, to the chats that you have with your friends on facebook, to the e-mails that you send and receive. they know from where you logged on to facebook last and where your mobile phone usually is on a monday night.

    this is NOT public information. this is NOT information that anybody agreed to be shared with your govenrment.


    and yes, many people have warned about this for many years. but this always was loosely labeled as a conspiracy theory. we now have the fact that this has been very real for a long time.

    but hey, it's easy pointing fingers at china, right?
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  27. #27
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    Re: PRISM: NSA/FBI Mining Internet Data since 2007

    Quote Originally Posted by frankfrank View Post
    We have a Republican president NOW.

    Obama, and the first George Bush 1989-1993, are similar in many ways.

    Except for the third rail of gay rights, Obama would have been blessed by the Republicans if it had been him instead of Bush running in 1988 (BUT if he ran on what he would eventually do in office...and, oh wait, he's Black).
    ^^^QFT^^^. I honesty expected him to flip to the Republican Party long ago....before he ran for President the first time... and this is why I find the Republican opposition comical...how can they not recognize one of their own? I don't want to be on the same side as the Republicans so I stay silent in mixed company but when I am amongst fellow liberals...not so much.

    As for the topic at hand...I always think in terms of a Pandora's Box and it was opened under Bush and at the time I saw it as a Pandora's Box and said so....Obama has just continued and expanded it as I fully expected he would.

    In terms of loss of privacy....what is happening now will seem like the "good old days" 10-15-20 years from now.

  28. #28
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    Re: PRISM: NSA/FBI Mining Internet Data since 2007

    @ Corny: See Post #6.

    OUR law as presently interpreted does not favor your position. https://ssd.eff.org/your-computer/govt/privacy (Note: The EFF [Electronic Frontier Foundation] is leading the charge to make these proceedings public. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3405101.html [Para. 3].)

    Even Yahoo understands the concept of the indiscriminately open internet. http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...5105943AA0aen6

    As for this charming bit of naïveté

    this is NOT information that anybody agreed to be shared with your govenrment. (sic)
    agreement is legally implicit in the internet communication: the communication is indiscriminately open.

    I am content with my grasp.

  29. #29

    Re: PRISM: NSA/FBI Mining Internet Data since 2007

    Yep. Those who turned away when Bush was checking up on internet activities are all now running around in circles flailing their arms in the air now that a different administration is continuing the practice. Where was your outrage when Bush was doing it?

  30. #30
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    Re: PRISM: NSA/FBI Mining Internet Data since 2007

    While everyone runs around like Chicken Little deploring this "snooping," they fail to grasp that NSA, by domestic snooping, had exceeded its mandate.

    Unfortunately for such as argue that, if the FBI did it it would probably be lawful.

    So in the end we are left arguing a distinction without a difference.

  31. #31
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    Re: PRISM: NSA/FBI Mining Internet Data since 2007

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    ^^^

    I don't hear you calling for Obama to quit, be impeached, be censured or anything else.

    Where's the anger?
    Your partisan irrationality is showing. Neither Bush nor Obama has done anything here of a nature justifying impeachment -- they're just using the law Bush got passed, and Obama got extended. Only an emotional partisan would think of impeachment here.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  32. #32
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    Re: PRISM: NSA/FBI Mining Internet Data since 2007

    The Patriot act (lol) needs to go.

    Jack wants to impeach Obama for failing to break the law? Or is it impeach him for exercising law only a right wingnut should have?
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

  33. #33
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    Re: PRISM: NSA/FBI Mining Internet Data since 2007

    Quote Originally Posted by palbert View Post
    A call for Obama's impeachment would be premature.

    As far as is known the decision extending NSA's mandate to the domestic sphere was made by a court exercising its independent judgment.
    According to a talking head last night, the court noted that no actual information, including email addresses, would even be seen by humans unless it connected with established threat patterns or some such thing. In other words, the computers chug through the data, and only keep what fits the profiles or connects with known bad guys.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  34. #34
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    Re: PRISM: NSA/FBI Mining Internet Data since 2007

    Somehow I'm not comforted.
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

  35. #35
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    Re: PRISM: NSA/FBI Mining Internet Data since 2007

    Quote Originally Posted by palbert View Post
    @ Corny: See Post #6.

    OUR law as presently interpreted does not favor your position. https://ssd.eff.org/your-computer/govt/privacy (Note: The EFF [Electronic Frontier Foundation] is leading the charge to make these proceedings public. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3405101.html [Para. 3].)

    Even Yahoo understands the concept of the indiscriminately open internet. http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...5105943AA0aen6

    As for this charming bit of naïveté



    agreement is legally implicit in the internet communication: the communication is indiscriminately open.

    I am content with my grasp.
    Isn't it a lovely system, where the government's actions only get judged by secret courts in secret decisions? If it's all secret, they don't really have to obey...

    which apparently is what they're doing.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  36. #36
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    Re: PRISM: NSA/FBI Mining Internet Data since 2007

    Quote Originally Posted by palbert View Post
    While everyone runs around like Chicken Little deploring this "snooping," they fail to grasp that NSA, by domestic snooping, had exceeded its mandate.

    Unfortunately for such as argue that, if the FBI did it it would probably be lawful.

    So in the end we are left arguing a distinction without a difference.
    And all they'd have to do is say the FBI was doing it, and the NSA was just providing the resources for the FBI.....

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: PRISM: NSA/FBI Mining Internet Data since 2007

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    Somehow I'm not comforted.
    Perhaps you shouldn't be, but not because of the Feds.

    If I was sitting at a Starbucks with a computer, much of what the NSA is getting, I could get because people don't take security seriously.
    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-205_162-...he-power-ball/ quoting Chester Wisniewski http://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/auth...terwisniewski/

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    Re: PRISM: NSA/FBI Mining Internet Data since 2007

    I goes without saying that the people who agree with this are part of the problem. But then they are generally the people who elected Bush in the first place so no shock there.
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

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    Re: PRISM: NSA/FBI Mining Internet Data since 2007

    Quote Originally Posted by palbert View Post
    Perhaps you shouldn't be, but not because of the Feds.



    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-205_162-...he-power-ball/ quoting Chester Wisniewski http://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/auth...terwisniewski/
    Whoever thought up the clause that companies aren't allowed to reveal that they are cooperating with the government deserves an award. I'll assign him...

    Two and a half swastikas.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: PRISM: NSA/FBI Mining Internet Data since 2007

    EDUCATIONAL and BACKGROUND:

    Sources: NSA Sucks In Data From 50 Companies

    Analysts at the National Security Agency can now secretly access real-time user data provided by as many as 50 American companies, ranging from credit rating agencies to internet service providers, two government officials familiar with the arrangements said.
    http://theweek.com/article/index/245...m-50-companies

    Deep State excerpt: The NSA is the largest factory of secrets in the world

    This is an excerpt from Deep State: Inside the Government Secrecy Industry, by Marc Ambinder and D.B. Grady. Over the next few weeks, we'll be running a series of NSA-related excerpts from the book here on The Compass.
    http://news.yahoo.com/deep-state-exc...085500104.html

    Solving the mystery of PRISM

    What exactly is PRISM? How does it work? Who uses it?
    http://theweek.com/article/index/245...stery-of-prism

    These articles are well worth the read in understanding these intelligence efforts.

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    Re: PRISM: NSA/FBI Mining Internet Data since 2007

    Quote Originally Posted by palbert View Post
    While everyone runs around like Chicken Little deploring this "snooping," they fail to grasp that NSA, by domestic snooping, had exceeded its mandate.

    I disagree. They collect and analyze signals of foreign intelligence value for the DoD and the intelligence community. No where in the executive order for its creation does the NSA get told to only collect signals overseas or on foreign shore. The original taps into the internet were to collect data from other nations as we created it and most of the information flowed through our country. Yet we didn't possess the computer technology to analyze all the massive amounts of data. We do now.

    (b) National Security Agency, whose responsibilities shall include:
    (1) Establishment and operation of an effective unified organization for signals intelligence activities, except for the delegation of operational control over certain operations that are conducted through other elements of the Intelligence Community. No other department or agency may engage in signals intelligence activities except pursuant to a delegation by the Secretary of Defense;
    (2) Control of signals intelligence collection and processing activities, including assignment of resources to an appropriate agent for such periods and tasks as required for the direct support of military commanders;
    (3) Collection of signals intelligence information for national foreign intelligence purposes in accordance with guidance from the Director of Central Intelligence;
    (4) Processing of signals intelligence data for national foreign intelligence purposes in accordance with guidance from the Director of Central Intelligence;
    (5) Dissemination of signals intelligence information for national foreign intelligence purposes to authorized elements of the Government, including the military services, in accordance with guidance from the Director of Central Intelligence;
    (6) Collection, processing and dissemination of signals intelligence information for counterintelligence purposes;
    (7) Provision of signals intelligence support for the conduct of military operations in accordance with tasking, priorities, and standards of timeliness assigned by the Secretary of Defense. If provision of such support requires use of national collection systems, these systems will be tasked within existing guidance from the Director of Central Intelligence;
    (8) Executing the responsibilities of the Secretary of Defense as executive agent for the communications security of the United States Government;
    (9) Conduct of research and development to meet the needs of the United States for signals intelligence and communications security;
    (10) Protection of the security of its installations, activities, property, information, and employees by appropriate means, including such investigations of applicants, employees, contractors, and other persons with similar associations with the NSA as are necessary;
    (11) Prescribing, within its field of authorized operations, security regulations covering operating practices, including the transmission, handling and distribution of signals intelligence and communications security material within and among the elements under control of the Director of the NSA, and exercising the necessary supervisory control to ensure compliance with the regulations;
    (12) Conduct of foreign cryptologic liaison relationships, with liaison for intelligence purposes conducted in accordance with policies formulated by the Director of Central Intelligence; and
    (13) Conduct of such administrative and technical support activities within and outside the United States as are necessary to perform the functions described in sections (1) through (12) above, including procurement.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


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    Re: PRISM: NSA/FBI Mining Internet Data since 2007

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    I disagree. They collect and analyze signals of foreign intelligence value for the DoD and the intelligence community. No where in the executive order for its creation does the NSA get told to only collect signals overseas or on foreign shore. The original taps into the internet were to collect data from other nations as we created it and most of the information flowed through our country. Yet we didn't possess the computer technology to analyze all the massive amounts of data. We do now.
    I think this will be a topic of earnest discussion. I personally don't care whether they exceeded their mandate or not.

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    Re: PRISM: NSA/FBI Mining Internet Data since 2007

    Quote Originally Posted by palbert View Post
    I think this will be a topic of earnest discussion. I personally don't care whether they exceeded their mandate or not.

    Now that they have the computing capability, regardless of authority granted, I wouldn't put it past them to continue to crunch data and then justify ends when they find something valuable. People sure as hell dont like getting blown up. But in line with the law they are doing their job.

    To me, since it is a computer analyzing the data and their keyed into foreign or terror related subjects, then it is akin to a cop running radar. That cop is collecting data without your permission to justify whether or not he should give you a ticket. If you don't exceed a threshold then he lets you go and if you do he looks deeper. Sometimes they look and the guy speeding slightly isn't really that bad so they let him go. In some cases, those given a pass on a speeding ticket continue to speed and later get into auto accidents that kill other people. Is that cop at fault?

    The same example can be made of the Marathon bombers. They had some flags (made the radar detector go off) but after a look there seemed to be nothing strange so they gave them a pass... four are dead and several hundred are either physically or mentally scarred for life. Is it the cops fault? Was anyone upset that they shutdown a entire metropolitan area over the incident?

    I know I am wondering a bit ... however that is the light I look at this data gathering.
    Last edited by JayHawk; June 8th, 2013 at 04:35 PM.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


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    Re: PRISM: NSA/FBI Mining Internet Data since 2007

    @JayHawk, at leisure read the articles in Post #40. They helped me a lot with PRISM. The author, and James Bamford (author, Body of Secrets), must have unique ties to the Agency.

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    Re: PRISM: NSA/FBI Mining Internet Data since 2007

    Quote Originally Posted by palbert View Post
    @JayHawk, at leisure read the articles in Post #40. They helped me a lot with PRISM. The author, and James Bamford (author, Body of Secrets), must have unique ties to the Agency.
    He does appear to know quite a bit but I have no idea if that stuff is true. Sounds about right. I imagine the agency will provide some more clarity but more importantly they will release info as to how it has thwarted a effort. I find it hard to believe that the agency is operating without decent oversight in this political climate. The republicans are trying to make Benghazi into a scandal instead of a tragedy and they have this bombshell??? doesnt jive.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
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    Re: PRISM: NSA/FBI Mining Internet Data since 2007

    I am NOT a criminal -- NOR do I expect to be TREATED by my government as a criminal -- they have NO RIGHT to collect this data on ME -- nor ANYONE else without cause...

    This is a HUGE deal that MUST be undone -- going back to the middle ages where the Catholic Church began "list making" has ONLY ended up with MASSIVE murder; segregating and identifying classes, races, and even "thoughts"...

    The government -- under ANY administration -- has no GOOD use for a database like this...

    So -- the important question -- is how do we, as citizens, STOP them???
    "Whatever you do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius and power and magic in it..." Goethe

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    Re: PRISM: NSA/FBI Mining Internet Data since 2007

    Besides the conspiracy theories about how is works have you read anything about this? try Palbert's links in #40.....
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
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    Re: PRISM: NSA/FBI Mining Internet Data since 2007

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    Besides the conspiracy theories about how is works have you read anything about this? try Palbert's links in #40.....
    I just now did read them...

    And I stand by my ORIGINAL statement -- there are possibly only FEW of us posters that have actually BEEN to the NSA like I, and probably you have...

    Lets just say it BLUNTLY -- they are "'fraidy cats" -- I mean, hell, I even had to deal with DOGS running through my vehicle when I was there -- and I was there on LEGITIMATE and FOREWARNED business...

    So -- I'm ONLY allowed in the "restricted areas" that I'm allowed in -- yet they're allowed to know EVERYTHING about ME???

    I will not trade my pseudo freedom for security...

    I am NOT afraid of terrorists -- even though my life may be taken by one...

    I REFUSE to live in FEAR...

    And I ALSO do NOT want to live in a country that is SUSPICIOUS of EVERYONE...



    p.s. as far as metadata is concerned -- I was a CFO of a MAJOR international corporation -- I'm familiar with how it works in minute detail -- and it can be flexed for MANY purposes...
    "Whatever you do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius and power and magic in it..." Goethe

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    Re: PRISM: NSA/FBI Mining Internet Data since 2007

    Quote Originally Posted by swerve View Post
    I will not trade my pseudo freedom for security...
    Actually, there is no evidence whatsoever that PRISM has done anything at all to advance security.

    Yes, of course, the administration makes that claim. But that is what they would say, regardless, isn't it?

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    Re: PRISM: NSA/FBI Mining Internet Data since 2007

    ^That is what Palbert's links in post #40 that Jayhawk wanted me to read suggested...

    Therefore -- the comment...

    And OF COURSE the administration is going to try and SELL their illegal INVASION of OUR privacy -- it is SICKENING...

    "Whatever you do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius and power and magic in it..." Goethe

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