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    USA : Verizon forced to hand over telephone data records by court order - Domestic Surveillance continues

    Although this began shortly after 2001 when Bush signed it into law, little was known about whether it was used during the current administration. 12 years on, a court order obtained by The Guardian newspaper group has uncovered Verizon's cooperation in substantian domestic surveillance of US citizens.

    The whole of the court order appears here
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/inte...ta-court-order

    Discussion
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...on-court-order
    The secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (Fisa) granted the order to the FBI on April 25, giving the government unlimited authority to obtain the data for a specified three-month period ending on July 19.

    Under the terms of the blanket order, the numbers of both parties on a call are handed over, as is location data, call duration, unique identifiers, and the time and duration of all calls. The contents of the conversation itself are not covered.
    It isn't clear whether this is a one off, or whether it has been on-going since 2001.

    In 2006, it was first revealed that AT&T, BellSouth, and Verizon - three of the biggest telephone providers in the US had been co-opted into spying on its customers. Information gathered include the duration of a call, the origin and destination numbers, and potentially any other meta-data that does not include the recording of the voice conversation, or the contents of digital information that ought to be privy only to the subscriber - emails, txts. It is likely, although it doesn't say in the article, that if you surf the web on your device, IP addresses are part of this meta-data too.

    You've given up your privacy folks.


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    Re: USA : Verizon forced to hand over telephone data records by court order - Domestic Surveillance continues

    Al Gore chimes in...

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...m_politics_pop

    In digital era, privacy must be a priority. Is it just me, or is secret blanket surveillance obscenely outrageous?
    Its big hammer to crack a small nut. Some people's nuts are being crushed regardless...


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    Re: USA : Verizon forced to hand over telephone data records by court order - Domestic Surveillance continues

    Can't f***ing win in this country.

    Get a Democratic President, get authoritarianism and fascism in return.

    Get a Republican President, get the above and, if you're not a straight white Christian male, watch out...
    "All legal U. S. residents who are 18 years or older, shall have an unconditional right to vote." - We need a 28th Amendment to the U. S. Constitution which resembles this...NOW!

    VOTING: Just remember: "Be careful of what you DON'T wish for. You might just get it." GET OUT AND VOTE for what you DO wish for.

    "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires" - Susan B. Anthony

  4. #4

    Re: USA : Verizon forced to hand over telephone data records by court order - Domestic Surveillance continues

    It's ok -- not a big deal - in all appearances the Obama Administration is either stupid or incompetent in security matters.

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    Re: USA : Verizon forced to hand over telephone data records by court order - Domestic Surveillance continues

    Slow news day.

    Back to Law and Order where this happens all the time.

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    Re: USA : Verizon forced to hand over telephone data records by court order - Domestic Surveillance continues

    I still don't understand what's up with all the cell phone records? Are they listening in too? All they gonna hear is me talking bad about my bosses and co-workers.
    He got that thickness, the kind that make you get up makin' biscuits with breakfast, so gone - Jill Scott - So Gone

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    Re: USA : Verizon forced to hand over telephone data records by court order - Domestic Surveillance continues

    the Patriot Act passed by bush makes this 100% legal--we had this conversation before, in 2006---repeal the Patriot Act if you want---another thing Obama has to deal that the gop were always 100% for---when monkey bush was in charge.

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    Re: USA : Verizon forced to hand over telephone data records by court order - Domestic Surveillance continues

    There are two problems here.

    First, the special court that authorizes these stupid intrusions (The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court) should not be doing so. Why did Judge Roger Vinson agree to this? Is he a mindless rubber stamp? If so, why is this Bush appointee allowed to keep his job?

    Second, the Patriot Act, which authorizes this nonsense, needs to be repealed. GWB left us with a legacy of anti-Constitutional and un-American laws. We thought Obama would undo this treason. Why has he not done so?

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    Re: USA : Verizon forced to hand over telephone data records by court order - Domestic Surveillance continues

    The FISA court got a five year renewal on December 28, 2012:

    After three key amendments that would have brought some oversight to the NSA's ongoing spying program were rejected last night, and the final such amendment was rejected this morning, there was little doubt that the Senate would move ahead with renewing FISA in its current and highly problematic form. Immediately following the rejection of the Wyden amendment, that's just what they did, voting 73-23 to extend FISA for another five years.
    http://www.techdirt.com/blog/?tag=fisa

    .... Even though the plain language of the bill suggests it only should be used on foreigners, it's become clear that thanks to weasel language in the bill, and a "secret" interpretation by a secret court, the definition of "targeting" foreigners has been interpreted to mean any communication that might possibly somehow shed light on some sort of illegal activity that might possibly maybe involve foreigners sometimes in some manner. As such, it seems likely that the NSA, in particular, has used this bill and its secret interpretation to sweep up huge databases of information about Americans, even as most people (including many in Congress) believe the bill only is used to spy on foreigners.
    http://www.techdirt.com/blog/?tag=fisa

    It really now is an Obama law. Bush started it but the Obama administration has endorsed it wholeheartedly.

  10. #10

    Re: USA : Verizon forced to hand over telephone data records by court order - Domestic Surveillance continues

    Quote Originally Posted by nycguydowntown View Post
    the Patriot Act passed by bush makes this 100% legal--we had this conversation before, in 2006---repeal the Patriot Act if you want---another thing Obama has to deal that the gop were always 100% for---when monkey bush was in charge.
    Yes, Obama is forced to monitor all phone records. Bush made him do it.

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    Re: USA : Verizon forced to hand over telephone data records by court order - Domestic Surveillance continues

    This is NOT just an issue for one political group [party] anymore. Even the über-liberal Huffington Post bloggers recognize how egregious this overreach is, as do many of its readers (in the comments):

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kriste...tent=BlogEntry

    KRISTEN BREITWEISER: Today's news relating to the Verizon data and records siege speaks volumes about this president and his absolute abuse of power.

    And when coupled with Eric Holder's abuses regarding the targeting of journalists and whistleblowers, Obama's positioning of John Brennan at CIA and James Comey at FBI, along with Obama's shift of drone warfare from CIA to DOD, which will now conveniently enable drones to operate within our borders, we all should be very, very scared. Because dissent, discussion, debate can no longer exist with this sort of omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent government.
    http://www.techdirt.com/blog/?tag=fisa
    I've never encountered this website before, but I assume their reporting and politics also lean liberal.

    Tim Cushing, today, quoting The Guardian:
    The order... requires Verizon on an "ongoing, daily basis" to give the NSA information on all telephone calls in its systems, both within the US and between the US and other countries.

    The document shows for the first time that under the Obama administration the communication records of millions of US citizens are being collected indiscriminately and in bulk – regardless of whether they are suspected of any wrongdoing...
    There are a number of blogs on this Techdirt, all talking about the perils of an agency (NSA) run amok with a steamroller that crushes the Constitution.

    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/l...151211411.html

    Yahoo News leans "right" and this shows outrage on both sides, but it's entirely fine-and-peachy with Obama.

    And, it appears that both Congress and President Obama have never met, or at least not recently met, a domestic spying and surveillance program they don't love.

    The White House defended its massive phone surveillance program as a "critical tool" in fighting terrorism as criticism of the spying mounted on Capitol Hill Thursday. The Guardian uncovered on Wednesday that the Obama administration is collecting millions of Verizon telephone records from Americans with a secret court order in an effort to track down terrorism suspects.
    WHAT'S the Fourth Amendment anyway? Fourth, schmourth...who need it anyway?
    "All legal U. S. residents who are 18 years or older, shall have an unconditional right to vote." - We need a 28th Amendment to the U. S. Constitution which resembles this...NOW!

    VOTING: Just remember: "Be careful of what you DON'T wish for. You might just get it." GET OUT AND VOTE for what you DO wish for.

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    Re: USA : Verizon forced to hand over telephone data records by court order - Domestic Surveillance continues

    Oops, I'm currently beyond the ten-mile ten-minute limit:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...tml?1370525438

    In fact, the NSA/DOJ cherish this surveillance so much, that they are going to try to find who is responsible for leaking this to the Guardian - presumably so that the responsible party can be sent to Gitmo, which will never close, I guess.

    ARTICLE TITLE: DOJ Will 'Very Likely' Investigate Guardian NSA Leak, Says Pete Williams; Official Disagrees
    The Guardian article has already gotten significant pick-up in the media, with follow-up stories leading the websites of The New York Times, the Washington Post and the Wall Street Journal Thursday morning. More questions about domestic surveillance involving millions of Americans, and a potential leak investigation into the source of the story, can be expected to follow.
    "All legal U. S. residents who are 18 years or older, shall have an unconditional right to vote." - We need a 28th Amendment to the U. S. Constitution which resembles this...NOW!

    VOTING: Just remember: "Be careful of what you DON'T wish for. You might just get it." GET OUT AND VOTE for what you DO wish for.

    "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires" - Susan B. Anthony

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    Re: USA : Verizon forced to hand over telephone data records by court order - Domestic Surveillance continues

    The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court was created by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978, signed by President Carter.

    http://www.fjc.gov/history/home.nsf/...cial_fisc.html

    I believe it did not wander into the domestic sphere until passage of the Patriot Act in 2001.

    Initial Patriot Act (107th Congress, H.R.3162.ENR): http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/.../~c107NsYl5Y::

    There have been numerous amendments.

    I am not unduly vexed by the current review of telephone company data.

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    Re: USA : Verizon forced to hand over telephone data records by court order - Domestic Surveillance continues

    May good old Benjamin Franklin should step in here.


    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."



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    Re: USA : Verizon forced to hand over telephone data records by court order - Domestic Surveillance continues

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Yes, Obama is forced to monitor all phone records. Bush made him do it.
    Looks like Barry's going to have to give up golf so he can monitor all those phone records.


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    Re: USA : Verizon forced to hand over telephone data records by court order - Domestic Surveillance continues

    If there is one thing I learned from politics, it is whenever both parties agree on something [in this case, The Patriot Act] it is bad for Americans. Last I checked, several Democrats signed onto The Patriot Act too so I don't get the "blame Bush" here.

    I just get kick out of Progressives on here who think Obama has their backs. "Political convenience" is all you will get from him.

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    Re: USA : Verizon forced to hand over telephone data records by court order - Domestic Surveillance continues

    As bad as this is,the bigger joke is the fact so many Republicans that rubberstamped all of this are now outraged over it. Hypocrisy at its finest.

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    Re: USA : Verizon forced to hand over telephone data records by court order - Domestic Surveillance continues

    The Obama Administration is just as much at fault as the Bush Administration in this. He knew what was going on in the federal government and has appointed leaders to continue the Bush legacy of violating the privacy and rights of American citizens. Even though the law is still in the books, he could have actively fought against the Patriot Act, particularly when it was up for renewal. Yet a roughly bipartisan Congress and relatively silent president allowed for it to continue.

    Shame on President Obama for doing this to the American people!
    #439th oldest member on JUB.

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    Re: USA : Verizon forced to hand over telephone data records by court order - Domestic Surveillance continues

    The telephone company transmission data goes back to 2001.

    The National Security Agency has been secretly collecting the phone call records of tens of millions of Americans, using data provided by AT&T, Verizon and BellSouth, people with direct knowledge of the arrangement told USA TODAY.
    ....
    The three telecommunications companies are working under contract with the NSA, which launched the program in 2001 shortly after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, the sources said. The program is aimed at identifying and tracking suspected terrorists, they said.
    ....
    The government is collecting "external" data on domestic phone calls but is not intercepting "internals," a term for the actual content of the communication, according to a U.S. intelligence official familiar with the program. This kind of data collection from phone companies is not uncommon; it's been done before, though never on this large a scale, the official said. The data are used for "social network analysis," the official said, meaning to study how terrorist networks contact each other and how they are tied together.
    http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...5-10-nsa_x.htm (5/11/2006)

    This has been going on for quite some time. Why the current furor? Remember back long ago when Qwest was the only company to challenge the arrangement.

  20. #20

    Re: USA : Verizon forced to hand over telephone data records by court order - Domestic Surveillance continues

    Knowing,as we do, Napolitano's bizarre paranoia about the exaggerated danger from "right wing" groups, it seems likely that the surveillance is largely directed against conservatives and it ties in with th IRS's use of the exemption application to compile data about Conservatives.
    Last edited by Benvolio; June 6th, 2013 at 04:27 PM.

  21. #21

    Re: USA : Verizon forced to hand over telephone data records by court order - Domestic Surveillance continues

    The domestic spying is also consistent with her bizarre purchase of billions of hollow point bullets for "homeland" use. Against whom?
    Last edited by Benvolio; June 6th, 2013 at 04:48 PM.

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    Re: USA : Verizon forced to hand over telephone data records by court order - Domestic Surveillance continues

    This is not a new scandal and is only the tip of the iceberg.
    There has been a surveillance base in California for years and a new one just opened in Utah this past week.

    Google - " Thin Thread " and "Thomas Drake"
    Basically how it all started.

    Expect the Whistleblower to be found and charged with Espionage.

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    Re: USA : Verizon forced to hand over telephone data records by court order - Domestic Surveillance continues

    For background on Thin Thread and on Drake:

    http://www.justusboys.com/forum/thre...=1#post8921097

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    Re: USA : Verizon forced to hand over telephone data records by court order - Domestic Surveillance continues

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Knowing,as we do, Napolitano's bizarre paranoia about the exaggerated danger from "right wing" groups …
    The primary author of the report to which you [probably intended to] refer soon thereafter started his own company, DT Analytics. (The “DT” stands for domestic terrorist.)

    Mr. Johnson identifies himself as a Republican.


    Back in 2005, we were worried about the ELF [Earth Liberation Front, a leftwing extremist group] and ALF [Animal Liberation Front] because of their sabotage and arson activities. But in 2007, we started seeing a shift as right-wing extremism was becoming revitalized …

    When Obama looked as though he was going to win the nomination [in August 2008], we started an outline. Between April and October 2008, we were immersed in collecting data. My team was still writing a draft of the report when Janet Napolitano became the new DHS secretary in January 2009.

    Inside the DHS: Former Top Analyst Says Agency Bowed to Political Pressure
    Johnson tells Media Matters he believes that the rescinding of his report and the eventual gutting of his unit would not have taken place were it not for the sustained and screeching attack by the conservative media. "After the leak, MSNBC, CBS, CNN and ABC reported on the actual contents and were pretty objective," says Johnson. "But then you had Fox News, which just went crazy. [Link]


    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    The domestic spying is also consistent with her bizarre purchase of billions of hollow point bullets for "homeland" use. Against whom?

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    Re: USA : Verizon forced to hand over telephone data records by court order - Domestic Surveillance continues

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Knowing,as we do, Napolitano's bizarre paranoia about the exaggerated danger from "right wing" groups, it seems likely that the surveillance is largely directed against conservatives and it ties in with th IRS's use of the exemption application to compile data about Conservatives.
    Your source for Napolitano's "bizarre paranoia?"

    I've certainly never heard of it.

    Let's try to stay grounded here and at least give lip service to the topic.

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    Re: USA : Verizon forced to hand over telephone data records by court order - Domestic Surveillance continues

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    The domestic spying is also consistent with her bizarre purchase of billions of hollow point bullets for "homeland" use. Against whom?
    I think opinterph has addressed this quite directly. Upon reading the article one will know whereof one speaks.

    Article: http://blogs.militarytimes.com/gears...not-worry-you/

  27. #27

    Re: USA : Verizon forced to hand over telephone data records by court order - Domestic Surveillance continues

    Nevertheless, I think we eventually will see that this vast tracing of phone calls has been primarily directed against Conservatives, not terrorists.

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    Re: USA : Verizon forced to hand over telephone data records by court order - Domestic Surveillance continues

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Nevertheless, I think we eventually will see that this vast tracing of phone calls has been primarily directed against Conservatives, not terrorists.
    Just because you are paranoid does not mean that the administration is not really out to get you.

  29. #29
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    Re: USA : Verizon forced to hand over telephone data records by court order - Domestic Surveillance continues

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Nevertheless, I think we eventually will see that this vast tracing of phone calls has been primarily directed against Conservatives, not terrorists.
    Bullshit....

    Thin Thread was replaced ... and I am sure trailblazer is gone now too except for the name.

    I can guarantee you one thing; whether the NSA was using it overtly as they are now, this sort of thing is no 'new' thing.


    This takes the cake though... the spy ring of the military industrial complex is targeting conservatives.... lol..... thanks for the laugh.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
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  30. #30

    Re: USA : Verizon forced to hand over telephone data records by court order - Domestic Surveillance continues

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrobin View Post
    Looks like Barry's going to have to give up golf so he can monitor all those phone records.
    If the dude plays golf like he throws a baseball, football, or plays basketball .... he should have gave up golf long ago. It does make you wonder if the guy is really playing golf or doing something else .... e.g. the Kennedys.

  31. #31

    Re: USA : Verizon forced to hand over telephone data records by court order - Domestic Surveillance continues

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    Bullshit....

    Thin Thread was replaced ... and I am sure trailblazer is gone now too except for the name.

    I can guarantee you one thing; whether the NSA was using it overtly as they are now, this sort of thing is no 'new' thing.


    This takes the cake though... the spy ring of the military industrial complex is targeting conservatives.... lol..... thanks for the laugh.
    If I remember correctly Big Sis did say in the first term that terrorism was most likely to come from inside the US and from the right.

  32. #32

    Re: USA : Verizon forced to hand over telephone data records by court order - Domestic Surveillance continues

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    Just because you are paranoid does not mean that the administration is not really out to get you.
    The Obama Admin is out to get everyone -- reading your emails, tracking your phones, keeping records of what you write here, your correspondence at work, what sites you visit, where you go when you use your phone or laptop, anything and everything you do in communication.

    ... just imagine it was a republican President doing this.

    WOW .... just WOW!!!

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    Re: USA : Verizon forced to hand over telephone data records by court order - Domestic Surveillance continues

    From a Facebook Friend: Ok, on this Verizon situation, at work our sign ins, calls, emails, and even swipes are tracked. We are on camera every move we make except the bathroom (we can see you enter and exit there though).

    Patriot Act in full effect, now I see why no one has had the chance to take a serious shot and the POTUS, he is watching their every move. I'm going to have to start calling him the Teflon Don of Presidents because nothing is sticking. I wasn't upset when it started and not upset about now, I just don't really have the desire to care, its not in my "wheel" of things I care about. I am amazed though each time I hear something about Uncle Sam, at the amount of money being spent and it seems its just part of the game. I didn't know it could take up to $24 million to replace a dead senator in NJ and just imagine all the hours and money spent reading over emails. I wonder if they use a PC to scan for key words or does someone have to spend hours reading over individual emails and phone records. All seems like a big colossal waste of money that the country supposedly needs.
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    Re: USA : Verizon forced to hand over telephone data records by court order - Domestic Surveillance continues

    This collection of transmission data violates the Fourth Amendment only if it violates your expectation of privacy. There is no expectation of privacy related to the transmission data (as opposed to content).

    Thus, some Supreme Court cases have held that you have no reasonable expectation of privacy in information you have "knowingly exposed" to a third party — for example, bank records or records of telephone numbers you have dialed — even if you intended for that third party to keep the information secret. In other words, by engaging in transactions with your bank or communicating phone numbers to your phone company for the purpose of connecting a call, you’ve "assumed the risk" that they will share that information with the government.
    https://ssd.eff.org/your-computer/govt/privacy

    In Smith vs. Maryland the Court held that no warrant was required:

    Held: The installation and use of the pen register was not a "search" within the meaning of the Fourth Amendment, and hence no warrant was required.
    (b) Petitioner in all probability entertained no actual expectation of privacy in the phone numbers he dialed, and even if he did, his expectation was not "legitimate." First, it is doubtful that telephone users in general have any expectation of privacy regarding the numbers they dial, since they typically know that they must convey phone numbers to the telephone company and that the company has facilities for recording this information and does, in fact, record it for various legitimate business purposes. And petitioner did not demonstrate an expectation of privacy merely by using his home phone, rather than some other phone, since his conduct, although perhaps calculated to keep the contents of his conversation private, was not calculated to preserve the privacy of the number he dialed. Second, even if petitioner did harbor some subjective expectation of privacy, this expectation was not one that society is prepared to recognize as "reasonable." When petitioner voluntarily conveyed numerical information to the phone company and "exposed" that information to its equipment in the normal course of business, he assumed the risk that the company would reveal the information
    http://www.oyez.org/cases/1970-1979/1978/1978_78_5374/
    http://supreme.justia.com/cases/fede.../735/case.html
    Smith vs. Maryland, 442 U.S. 735, 736 (1979)

  35. #35
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: USA : Verizon forced to hand over telephone data records by court order - Domestic Surveillance continues

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    If I remember correctly Big Sis did say in the first term that terrorism was most likely to come from inside the US and from the right.
    oh fucking bullshit.... this is another case of conservatives getting their panties wet over policy they fucking made and employed. The only problem now is that the black Kenyan Muslim is doing it....

    Check it out Google knows what you eat, what you buy, where you live, where you work and what you like.... the NSA can just patch together which terrorist your calling. Which are you more afraid of? The government where news and watchdog and oversight committees are viewing the actions or Google where no one is and they make money off telling people about you the consumer....

    this story is what happens when the media decides they wanna fight back... it is laden with bullshit and lack of information enough to allow the average fucking idiot to become angry.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  36. #36
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    Re: USA : Verizon forced to hand over telephone data records by court order - Domestic Surveillance continues

    Quote Originally Posted by maxpowr9 View Post
    If there is one thing I learned from politics, it is whenever both parties agree on something [in this case, The Patriot Act] it is bad for Americans. Last I checked, several Democrats signed onto The Patriot Act too so I don't get the "blame Bush" here.

    I just get kick out of Progressives on here who think Obama has their backs. "Political convenience" is all you will get from him.
    No kidding -- on both.

    Quote Originally Posted by justdra View Post
    Patriot Act in full effect, now I see why no one has had the chance to take a serious shot and the POTUS, he is watching their every move. I'm going to have to start calling him the Teflon Don of Presidents because nothing is sticking.
    It's hard to get something to stick to a target with little substance.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  37. #37

    Re: USA : Verizon forced to hand over telephone data records by court order - Domestic Surveillance continues

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    oh fucking bullshit.... this is another case of conservatives getting their panties wet over policy they fucking made and employed. The only problem now is that the black Kenyan Muslim is doing it....

    Check it out Google knows what you eat, what you buy, where you live, where you work and what you like.... the NSA can just patch together which terrorist your calling. Which are you more afraid of? The government where news and watchdog and oversight committees are viewing the actions or Google where no one is and they make money off telling people about you the consumer....

    this story is what happens when the media decides they wanna fight back... it is laden with bullshit and lack of information enough to allow the average fucking idiot to become angry.
    The 'Kenyan Muslim' as you call him has the power to stop this -- but does not and will not -- and you give him the pass and blame other people.

  38. #38
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: USA : Verizon forced to hand over telephone data records by court order - Domestic Surveillance continues

    No Jack, I have known it was going on since before the fucking patriot act and have no issue with them doing it because they will regardless of law. At least this receives congressional scrutiny that all those fucking weasels will try to excuse themselves from agreeing to in the first place.

    I see no issue with it.... you do but you didnt when Bush started it... that is pretty fucking ODD isnt it?
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  39. #39
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    Re: USA : Verizon forced to hand over telephone data records by court order - Domestic Surveillance continues

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    The 'Kenyan Muslim' as you call him has the power to stop this -- but does not and will not -- and you give him the pass and blame other people.
    He does?

    Show me in the Constitution where the executive can overrule the other two branches at will.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  40. #40

    Re: USA : Verizon forced to hand over telephone data records by court order - Domestic Surveillance continues

    He doesn't have to enforce the law. He's proven that he has that choice with DOMA, pot, etc.

    Besides -- do we really know what's going on. The Obama Administration MO is not to answer questions or be forthcoming with information.

  41. #41
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    Re: USA : Verizon forced to hand over telephone data records by court order - Domestic Surveillance continues

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    oh fucking bullshit.... this is another case of conservatives getting their panties wet over policy they fucking made and employed. The only problem now is that the black Kenyan Muslim is doing it...
    You forgot the Jihadist part...and the gay part, as well, as some have said.
    "All legal U. S. residents who are 18 years or older, shall have an unconditional right to vote." - We need a 28th Amendment to the U. S. Constitution which resembles this...NOW!

    VOTING: Just remember: "Be careful of what you DON'T wish for. You might just get it." GET OUT AND VOTE for what you DO wish for.

    "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires" - Susan B. Anthony

  42. #42

    Re: USA : Verizon forced to hand over telephone data records by court order - Domestic Surveillance continues

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    He does?

    Show me in the Constitution where the executive can overrule the other two branches at will.
    The personel,doing it are exercising power vested in the President, Art II, Sec 1. It was intended to allow the government to spy on the Muslims jihadists, not on loyal Americans.

  43. #43
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    Re: USA : Verizon forced to hand over telephone data records by court order - Domestic Surveillance continues

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    If the dude plays golf like he throws a baseball, football, or plays basketball .... he should have gave up golf long ago.
    You completely missed the point of my post which was... one man cannot electronically monitor a country of 300 million. Even so, you'll twist whatever I say to meet your needs.

    he should have gave given up golf long ago.
    It does make you wonder if the guy is really playing golf or doing something else .... e.g. the Kennedys.
    Something else? Perhaps he's been fist-fucking Bill Ayers - or having a Ménage à trois which would include Rev. Wright.


  44. #44
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    Re: USA : Verizon forced to hand over telephone data records by court order - Domestic Surveillance continues

    I've had the SAME cell number for 12yrs...I was with Alltel until Verizon showed up like Gang Busters and bought us out. I've been a Verizon customer for a few years by Default..

    I HOPE & PRAY the Government Monitors my Verizon account. The FIRST thing the Feds will say is "Damn this Bastard needs a better Phone & Plan!".....

    If they ARREST me for Dialing Gay/Bisexual Sex lines all I'm gonna do is get a Fucking Reality show once I make Bail....I'm attractive enough to be on TV any Damn way.....

  45. #45
    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: USA : Verizon forced to hand over telephone data records by court order - Domestic Surveillance continues

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrobin View Post

    You completely missed the point of my post which was... one man cannot electronically monitor a country of 300 million.

    This needs repeating.

    The powers that be do not possess the resources to monitor everyone....preferring to focus on those whose activities attract their attention which in itself is an overwhelming task.

    The United States cannot even defend itself against hacking of its military secrets by Chinese hackers leading me to believe that the prospect of Joe Public being targeted by the NSA is remote....unless there is a good reason.....even then the surveillance may well be inadequate as the recent Boston terrorist episode evidenced when the United States security services failed to follow through on information supplied by the Russian security service (FSB) on the two perpetrators.

  46. #46

    Re: USA : Verizon forced to hand over telephone data records by court order - Domestic Surveillance continues

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrobin View Post
    You completely missed the point of my post which was... one man cannot electronically monitor a country of 300 million. Even so, you'll twist whatever I say to meet your needs.




    Something else? Perhaps he's been fist-fucking Bill Ayers - or having a Ménage à trois which would include Rev. Wright.
    You completely missed my joke.

  47. #47
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: USA : Verizon forced to hand over telephone data records by court order - Domestic Surveillance continues

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    This needs repeating.

    The powers that be do not possess the resources to monitor everyone....preferring to focus on those whose activities attract their attention which in itself is an overwhelming task.

    The United States [COLOR="#FF0000"]Corporations /COLOR]cannot even defend itself against hacking of its military secrets by Chinese hackers leading me to believe that the prospect of Joe Public being targeted by the NSA is remote....unless there is a good reason.....even then the surveillance may well be inadequate as the recent Boston terrorist episode evidenced when the United States security services failed to follow through on information supplied by the Russian security service (FSB) on the two perpetrators.
    Which of course is why they take the records en-masse and have a computer suss out patterns consistent with previous terror cells. Which again is the same reason it picked up nothing on the Marathon suspects. Had it been monitoring for key words vice patterns of behavior then the 'discovery' of a plot could have been much easier. I imagine that both being teens who learned their phone habits in Boston then it would leave a lack of foreignness to their phone habits.

    Had to fix the second paragraph. Lowest bidder gets the job and one of the easy ways to save cost is to eliminate security protocol. Whats an even better method for a less advanced culture, that is prone to reverse engineer, is to leave your experimental mistakes lying around... especially mistakes that cannot be discovered until manufactured or or stress tested. Then your 'competitor' embarrasses themselves, in the court of international opinion, acquiring the shitty data and once again when it blows up in their faces. The major tech changes in China have come along after they have bought information from traitors like Bradley 'shoot him in the head' Manning.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  48. #48
    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: USA : Verizon forced to hand over telephone data records by court order - Domestic Surveillance continues

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post

    The major tech changes in China have come along after they have bought information from traitors like Bradley 'shoot him in the head' Manning.
    Manning sold nothing merely passed well known facts on American diplomatic initiatives to Wikileaks.

    Manning accessed The State Departments files through the Army's communications network a connection now terminated.

    No military secrets were passed to Wikileaks by Manning.

    Manning is being tried for he successfully hacked and downloaded State Department files through the Army's communications network.

  49. #49
    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: USA : Verizon forced to hand over telephone data records by court order - Domestic Surveillance continues

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    You completely missed my joke.
    You have a sense of humour? Since when?

  50. #50
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: USA : Verizon forced to hand over telephone data records by court order - Domestic Surveillance continues

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    Manning sold nothing merely passed well known facts on American diplomatic initiatives to Wikileaks.

    Manning accessed The State Departments files through the Army's communications network a connection now terminated.

    No military secrets were passed to Wikileaks by Manning.

    Manning is being tried for he successfully hacked and downloaded State Department files through the Army's communications network.
    He didnt fucking hack it dude... jesus fucking christ... the LINK existed purposefully as do many other intelligence ties post 9/11 because PART of the failure in the intel was blamed on the 'rice-bowl' nature of our security of classified information -- otherwise known as compartmentalization. He did so using a fucking thumb drive which was the major fault we knew existed but did not think would be used if we vetted our people carefully. Manning appeared to be an american at heart instead of a cowardly traitor.

    Plus I test the Army applicants now and stop telling me about Manning's intelligence... the intelligent go into other branches besides being shot at....
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


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