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  1. #51
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durango95 View Post
    The parents were clearly negligent. They should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. If any gun regulations were violated then that needs to be investigated as well. That is however doubtful because the current administration has taken the stance that enforcement of current gun laws is irrelevant in lieu of the hope of forcing more laws onto the American citizenry. More gun laws are not needed. Better enforcement is needed.
    Your post started well, and then you derailed yourself with pointless propaganda. Can you cite under what laws can the parents be prosecuted?

    You've been proven time and again to be utterly wrong in claiming that current gun laws are enough, yet you ignore the proof and just repeat your spiel, as if that will make it more true.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  2. #52

    Re: 5 year old kills 2 year old sister with his own gun

    The parents are stupid.

    I doubt if were yet ready to have a conversation about gun violence. Still no threads about how horrible overnight murders are in the cities and black-on-black violence where thousands are killed every year.
    Last edited by Jack Springer; May 2nd, 2013 at 11:50 AM.

  3. #53
    JubberClubber White Eagle's Avatar
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    Re: 5 year old kills 2 year old sister with his own gun

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post
    These stats, as other posters have said, prove nothing. They simply show stats for two locations, without taking into account any of the 'baggage', that effect the crime levels in those two areas.

    For example. How many cities in Illinois have a population of 500,000 or more? Guess? Just one. Chicago
    Now how about Texas? There are six. Houston, San Antonio, Dallas, Austin, Fort Worth and El Paso.
    Unlike in Illinois, the population size of Houston is less than twice the size of the second largest city San Antonio, yet Chicago is almost 14 times the size of the second largest city there (Aurora).

    If you can't guess what i am driving at already, its that big cities are like magnets. They are 'happening' cities with opportunity. Texas crooks have got 6 to choose from, effectively spreading out the crime hotspots within the state. In Illinois, with only one major metropolitan area, it all happens in that one place, distorting the figures hugely.

    There is also another key factor in relation to Chicago, and that is, that unlike Houston, Chicago is by far the more 'International' city. Houston is rivalled in its own state to a large degree by Dallas, in international status, let alone a city as well known as Chicago. Once again, this magnetic pull comes into play. If guns dissappeared overnight in the US, crime figures would fall dramatically, but you can still expect Chicago to suffer the greater levels, like New York, like LA, like Boston, because they are huge international cities. Houston not so much.


    I found no offence in Rolyo's comment. And i'll admit perfectly that i found it amusing. Not amusing in the LOL sense, simply in its context, because it sums up succinctly how much of the western world looks at the US on the gun debate.
    The comment is a mockery on a tragedy. That does not mean that the tragedy wasn't felt, or that the lost life in question was worthless enough that jokes are being made. It was NO joke. That was the point of the comment. It wasn't at the expense of the tragedy, but at the expense of those who naively believe that arming a nation is a good thing, because it clearly isn't. You only have to open your eyes and be sensible, but instead, so many americans want to bury their heads in the sand so that they can carry on playing with their big boy toys, whilst unscrupulous profiteers are pushing dangerous weapons onto the populace, under the false ideology that it'll make you safer.

    This little boy was given this gun as a birthday present? At 5 years old, a remote control car is by far more suitable. Its absurd how many tragedies occur because of sheer stupidity, and like it or not Chance, that is WORTH mocking. Hopefully that kind of attitude will get through to some people about how bad an idea it actually is to give kids guns, sure as hell beats the advertising for the 'my first firearm' toy for kids (which normalises something which is NOT normal). Young children and teddy bears mix, children and guns don't, and shouldn't.
    Very well said, thank you for adding something that I couldn't.
    BEWARE! Harassing the Indian may result in sudden and severe hair loss.

  4. #54
    mitchymo
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    Re: 5 year old kills 2 year old sister with his own gun

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Still no threads about how horrible overnight murders are in the cities and black-on-black violence where thousands are killed every year.
    Those are just not noteworthy. As sad as it is to say that, those murders go overlooked. They are part and parcel of the culture of the US. What is newsworthy about someone being shot dead there??
    The most shocking gun abuses make the news for their extraordinary status, and then used by the anti-gun lobby to try and hammer home why guns are bad. Nobody is gonna listen if its just the isolated incident involving one or two deaths, especially if its gang related or involving deaths of criminals or domestic blow-ups, even if those numbers add up to a huge number overall.
    Its sad that it seems to take a huge incident to make people pay attention.
    Quote Originally Posted by White Eagle View Post
    Very well said, thank you for adding something that I couldn't.
    Cheers!

  5. #55
    Virtus in medio stat JUB Admin opinterph's Avatar
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    Re: 5 year old kills 2 year old sister with his own gun

    Quote Originally Posted by Durango95 View Post
    More gun laws are not needed. Better enforcement is needed.
    Below are several quotes from Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence:

    Kentucky provides no minimum age for the possession of rifles or shotguns. [Link]

    Kentucky does not impose criminal liability for negligent storage of a firearm, even if a child gains access to the firearm and causes an injury or death. [Link]

    Federal law provides no minimum age for the possession of long guns or long gun ammunition. [Link]

  6. #56
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post

    Below are several quotes from Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence:
    Providing facts to a gun control argument is just so tasteless...
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  7. #57

    Re: 5 year old kills 2 year old sister with his own gun

    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post
    Below are several quotes from Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence:
    None of your links would support the need for more gun laws.

    This case should go to court. Courts are where it is determined whether the law was broken in a particular manner and what applicable laws if any will be in question. That is how we do it in this country, anyway.
    Only government can take perfectly good paper, cover it with perfectly good ink and make the combination worthless.

  8. #58
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    [Text: Removed] The link explicitly states that no law was broken. They CAN'T be taken to court as according to KY law they did nothing wrong. Please tell us which non-existent law should have been enforced in order for this horror to be avoided?
    Last edited by opinterph; May 2nd, 2013 at 12:30 PM. Reason: removed personal insult
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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  9. #59
    tired chrisrobin's Avatar
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    Re: 5 year old kills 2 year old sister with his own gun

    ..........
    So what?


  10. #60
    Virtus in medio stat JUB Admin opinterph's Avatar
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    Re: 5 year old kills 2 year old sister with his own gun

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    The link explicitly states that no law was broken. They CAN'T be taken to court as according to KY law they did nothing wrong. Please tell us which non-existent law should have been enforced in order for this horror to be avoided?
    Some law(s) may have been broken, but itís interesting to learn that leaving the rifle in the corner of a room is a reasonable way to store that type firearm in a house with children. It is sad that the parents forgot to make sure the rifle was not loaded.

  11. #61
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: 5 year old kills 2 year old sister with his own gun

    There is nothing a court can do that will ever result in "...and they all lived ever after."

    The problem is the casual availability of guns.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  12. #62
    Banned chance1's Avatar
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    Re: 5 year old kills 2 year old sister with his own gun

    Quote Originally Posted by palbert View Post
    Rolyo, Chance and JQ all in one thread!

    Chance baiting Rolyo and Rolyo giving back.

    This is why we can't have nice things.

    Quit the personal bickering gentlemen.

    This IS a disturbing and serious topic.
    Hey pal

    Tell us what u think of rolyo's remarks

    If you tell me I'm wrong I'll stop

    But u won't

    This is a serious issue and event

    Which is precisely why rolyo's comment is for shit

    Your move

  13. #63
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: 5 year old kills 2 year old sister with his own gun

    THIS is exactly what kind of law reform we need to hold people accountable. These parents and Lanza's mother should be able to be held accountable legally for reckless endangerment. Obviously Lanza's mother paid with her life but the point is clear. In regulating our well armed militia we should make it a requirement that persons not the legal age to purchase are kept from access as well.

    Of course, that cant work until we mobilize and ensure these senators who voted against background checks are held accountable to the voters.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  14. #64

    Re: 5 year old kills 2 year old sister with his own gun

    You're confusing the issue JH -- imposing more background checks would have done nothing to stop this sad, senseless death. It's the fault of the little girl's parents who cannot parent.

    Maybe a law requiring parents to get background checks and be certified to be parents before they become parents in is order.

  15. #65
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: 5 year old kills 2 year old sister with his own gun

    Read what I posted Jack... I confuse nothing. You fail to understand what I wrote.

    There needs to be additional law on the book,s holding accountable moronic fuckwits who would leave a weapon accessible to such a young child who often cannot be counted to walk straight or to keep from pooping their pants.

    Currently we cannot pass background checks because of the moronic fuckwits in the republican party who are more afraid of their cash cow constituency than their constituents will.

    SO ERGO until we hold those senators responsible at the polls and replace them with people who actually represent the PEOPLE then we could not possibly pass an additional and very sensible law that says a parent can be charged for reckless endangerment for leaving a loaded weapon within the reach of a five year old or a mentally challenged individual such as Lanza.

    Does that clear it up Jack. No confusion just seamless weaving of the entire issue. I know it is hard to win arguments if they have context besides a singular issue but with anything in the gun debate all aspects must apply.

    Cheers.

    oh and here is your snow shovel....WTF KC
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  16. #66
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    Re: 5 year old kills 2 year old sister with his own gun

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    You're confusing the issue JH -- imposing more background checks would have done nothing to stop this sad, senseless death. It's the fault of the little girl's parents who cannot parent.


    Maybe a law requiring parents to get background checks and be certified to be parents before they become parents in is order.
    If there were no laws preventing drunk driving, more people would do it, even though it's stupid. Laws often make people stop and think about their actions. As there is no law against negligent storage of firearms in Kentucky, these people didn't stop and think about it.

    States with stronger gun laws have less gun deaths.

  17. #67

    Re: 5 year old kills 2 year old sister with his own gun

    I'm sure the state has some law where they can prosecute the parents -- and I hope they do.

    However, no background check would have ever saved this young girl's life. I stand by what I said.


    Unbelievable -- just looked at WeatherUnderground -- it's saying that we may get 3-6 inches tonight -- heaviest on the Missouri side so you may not have it that bad -- come by and shovel my driveway, I'll provide you with some spiked hot chocolate. I'll warm up your ass afterwards.

  18. #68
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: 5 year old kills 2 year old sister with his own gun

    Quote Originally Posted by andysayshi View Post
    If there were no laws preventing drunk driving, more people would do it, even though it's stupid. Laws often make people stop and think about their actions. As there is no law against negligent storage of firearms in Kentucky, these people didn't stop and think about it.

    States with stronger gun laws have less gun deaths.
    Don't lack ambition. Laws are not enough: countries with fewer guns have less gun deaths.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  19. #69
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: 5 year old kills 2 year old sister with his own gun

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    I'm sure the state has some law where they can prosecute the parents -- and I hope they do.

    However, no background check would have ever saved this young girl's life. I stand by what I said.


    Unbelievable -- just looked at WeatherUnderground -- it's saying that we may get 3-6 inches tonight -- heaviest on the Missouri side so you may not have it that bad -- come by and shovel my driveway, I'll provide you with some spiked hot chocolate. I'll warm up your ass afterwards.
    Well, no shit, a background check would not have stopped this death.... to paraphrase "DUH"

    The point is if the group of people will go against a 90% opinion of Americans for background checks then OBVIOUSLY they cannot pass a law that demands accountability.

    Oh and the state has already stated the parents did nothing wrong legally. Leaning your loaded rifle against the wall is perfectly legal to do in Kentucky -- and in most places. While many more progressive states have harsher access laws, almost none have storage requirements except when travelling the roads.

    Hrmmmm, do you know why most bases have armories?

    To store the guns -- SAFELY...

    O_O


    I know RIGHT... those communist american service members actually lock up their weapons for safety... weird.

    editation... I have to be in early tomorrow so no drinky drinky... I am A-sexual anyways....
    Last edited by JayHawk; May 2nd, 2013 at 04:11 PM.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
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  20. #70
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: 5 year old kills 2 year old sister with his own gun

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    Hey pal

    Tell us what u think of rolyo's remarks

    If you tell me I'm wrong I'll stop

    But u won't

    This is a serious issue and event

    Which is precisely why rolyo's comment is for shit

    Your move
    Others already told you you were wrong, if not him specifically. Too bad you were too busy skimming to notice.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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  21. #71
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: 5 year old kills 2 year old sister with his own gun

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    You're confusing the issue JH -- imposing more background checks would have done nothing to stop this sad, senseless death. It's the fault of the little girl's parents who cannot parent.

    Maybe a law requiring parents to get background checks and be certified to be parents before they become parents in is order.
    I don't think people are advocating background checks in this topic. Of course background checks would have done shit to prevent this. But marketing guns to children should be illegal, and a culture that prides itself on it should be changed. At the VERY least there needs to be a minimum age for owning/using a gun unsupervised..
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  22. #72
    Banned chance1's Avatar
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    Re: 5 year old kills 2 year old sister with his own gun

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Others already told you you were wrong, if not him specifically. Too bad you were too busy skimming to notice.
    LOL - white eagle ? TX ? Bob ?

    that's akin to "craziest congressman"

    palbert is a reasoned thinker

    as is andy

    they haven't come to your defense because u have none

    your remark was bullshit and your defense/lie and the "support" from head nodders is what it is - lacking in integrity and intelligence

    keep it up

    i can go all day

  23. #73
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    Re: 5 year old kills 2 year old sister with his own gun

    Well, to be fair, I haven't addressed the tÍte-ŗ-tÍte between you boys, because I felt it was a distraction from the topic.

    For the record, sarcasm and satire are common ways to comment on serious events, and I didn't take any offence from Rolyo's post. I don't think it was posted with the intention of getting guffaws.

    I wish you two would just get it over with and fuck, already.

  24. #74
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Oops, you ruined chance's argument! Naughty!
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  25. #75
    JubberClubber White Eagle's Avatar
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    Re: 5 year old kills 2 year old sister with his own gun

    Thank you Andy, now maybe we can get back to the thread.
    BEWARE! Harassing the Indian may result in sudden and severe hair loss.

  26. #76
    tired chrisrobin's Avatar
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    Re: 5 year old kills 2 year old sister with his own gun

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    i can go all day
    too much information! (or not)


  27. #77

    Re: 5 year old kills 2 year old sister with his own gun

    Quote Originally Posted by andysayshi View Post

    I wish you two would just get it over with and fuck, already.
    Good God... can you imagine what sex with chance would be like?....*shudder*

    You'd be on him and he's be barking out insults and orders.

    "......fuck me slower and deeper and don't cum until I tell you to...."

  28. #78
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: 5 year old kills 2 year old sister with his own gun

    More like:

    u think this is how you do it?

    sad

    but not surprising

    keep going faster

    or better yet don't
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  29. #79
    Sex God Negasta's Avatar
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    Re: 5 year old kills 2 year old sister with his own gun

    I'm for as little limitation on private ownership and operation of firearms as reasonably possibly, but giving a small child his own firearm and then not supervising him/her is so idiotic as to defy understanding. My dad taught me how to shoot (he was a cop and I'm one too now), and I turned out a pretty good shot, but he never let me out of his sight when I was holding a loaded firearm.

    I'm in two minds about prosecuting the parents. They were obviously criminally negligent to an extreme degree and that justifies them spending some time in jail. However they already have to live with the terrible loss they suffered because of their foolishness for the rest of their lives and that is a terrible punishment on its own.

    What makes me just as angry is that incidents like this makes all gun lovers like myself look like deranged bumpkins in the eyes of the anti-gun/anti-2nd Amendment crowd.
    War, War never changes...

  30. #80
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: 5 year old kills 2 year old sister with his own gun

    They do, sad to say.

    Also, the parents CAN'T be prosecuted according to KY law.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  31. #81

    Re: 5 year old kills 2 year old sister with his own gun

    ^^^

    Are you saying that parents cannot be prosecuted for child endangerment in Kentucky?

    Maybe you can show all of us where Kentucky law states your claim.

    http://chfs.ky.gov/dcbs/dpp/

    ... I'm guessing you'll just ignore me or start doing what you usually do .. making personal attacks on me.

  32. #82
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    ^^^

    Are you saying that parents cannot be prosecuted for child endangerment in Kentucky?

    Maybe you can show all of us where Kentucky law states your claim.

    http://chfs.ky.gov/dcbs/dpp/

    ... I'm guessing you'll just ignore me or start doing what you usually do .. making personal attacks on me.
    No, I won't ignore you, I'll just direct you to opinterph's post which shows that according to KY law, what the parents did was not child endangerment, as it is perfectly legal to just keep guns lying around in that state. You know, it's just one of those laws that we totally don't need, as long as what we already have is enforced...
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

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