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  1. #1
    JUB Addict LeicsDom's Avatar
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    Should we be surprised at another Vatican cover up?

    http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2013/04/29...exual-conduct/
    The Catholic Church is to take no further action over Cardinal Keith O’Brien’s admission of inappropriate “sexual conduct”, following accusations from four priests.

    Can't they see that by taking no public action they are appearing to condone his abuse of power?

  2. #2
    I spell spelled spelt
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    Re: Should we be surprised at another Vatican cover up?

    The report suggests that senior figures in the Catholic Church have decided that an inquiry is not necessary, as O’Brien has already admitted his wrongdoing, and apologised.
    Oh, well, that makes everything alright, doesn't it?

    "Sorry I raped you, boys. My bad. We good again?"

  3. #3
    JUB Addict LeicsDom's Avatar
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    Re: Should we be surprised at another Vatican cover up?

    ^^ Well that is the Catholic ethos. Do what you like, confess and everything is back to zero

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    Re: Should we be surprised at another Vatican cover up?

    I thought this guy --unlike most of them---just had sex with other legal adults---not kids. So, no crime committed---I mean who cares about breaking celibacy church crime.

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    JUB Addict LeicsDom's Avatar
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    Re: Should we be surprised at another Vatican cover up?

    Quote Originally Posted by nycguydowntown View Post
    I thought this guy --unlike most of them---just had sex with other legal adults---not kids. So, no crime committed---I mean who cares about breaking celibacy church crime.
    I think that the accusers are saying he sexually assaulted them
    I agree that breaking his celibacy is merely a church matter and of no consequence to the rest of us

  6. #6
    Do I dare to eat a peach?
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    Re: Should we be surprised at another Vatican cover up?

    And yet they fire a phys ed teacher of 19 years because her name and her lesbian partner's name appeared in the teacher's mother;s obituary. The action may be illegal, as well as being reprehensible.

    http://www.nbcnews.com/id/51562165/n...ers-dismissal/

    Carla Hale taught at Bishop Watterson for 19 years. Her attorney says she was fired on March 28, after an obituary printed in a local paper for her mother listed her with a partner named Julie.
    ....
    "I can understand their opinion on homosexuality when it comes to that issue, but we're seeing a woman reprimanded for this but you don't see any reprimand when a teacher gets divorced which the Catholic Church is against. You don't see them asking in their private life use birth control or one of those heightened matters" says Mike Liggett, one of Hale's supporters. Liggett is a Watterson alumni who is now a student at The Ohio State University.
    ....
    The Catholic High School is located within the City of Columbus, which has an ordinance on the books making it illegal to deny someone employment based on, among many factors, sexual orientation.
    I have sent an email protest to office@cdeducation.org.

    You can also sign the Change.org petition at http://www.change.org/petitions/dioc...ber-carla-hale

  7. #7
    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: Should we be surprised at another Vatican cover up?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeicsDom View Post
    I think that the accusers are saying he sexually assaulted them
    I agree that breaking his celibacy is merely a church matter and of no consequence to the rest of us
    If this is the case then why have the accusers not registered a complaint with the police?

    Apart from being forced to retire into oblivion what additional action are you recommending The Vatican should take against Keith O'Brien?

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    Do I dare to eat a peach?
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    Re: Should we be surprised at another Vatican cover up?

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    If this is the case then why have the accusers not registered a complaint with the police? ....
    They would probably be told that a statute of limitations had run.
    Last edited by opinterph; April 29th, 2013 at 12:23 PM. Reason: fixed quote tags

  9. #9
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    Re: Should we be surprised at another Vatican cover up?

    Very odd when dealing with ecclesiastical self government

    Ecclesiastical law - the body of codified laws governing the affairs of a Christian church
    & canon law - the body of laws and regulations made or adopted by ecclesiastical authority (Church leadership), for the government of the Christian organization

    As such, in matters dealing with religious faiths -- internal laws may or may not confine or match themselves to national laws -- for example all national laws do not maintain the status quo across nation states thus the need for faiths to sometimes self regulate themselves and defend their faithful against unsafe regimes remains a very real reality--then of course where to draw the line also is a very real reality for punishing church leaders who break civil and canonical laws.

    I will state that sex crimes committed against children (as well as various other civil crimes) should be dealt with within the confines of civil law as well as canonical law. Getting it right for both the victims and the accused remains priority one.

  10. #10
    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: Should we be surprised at another Vatican cover up?

    Quote Originally Posted by palbert View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    If this is the case then why have the accusers not registered a complaint with the police? ....
    They would probably be told that a statute of limitations had run.
    The matter received enormous publicity in the United Kingdom so the matter of cover up does not apply.

    These allegations refer to matters that occurred many years ago between adults leaving me surprised why the victims (all priests) did not file a complaint with the police at the time the incidents occurred.

    Apart from dismissing O'Brien from active ministry into retirement there is nothing else that The Vatican can do.

    It is my understanding that O'Brien had a serious drinking problem.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki Sohma View Post
    I will state that sex crimes committed against children (as well as various other civil crimes) should be dealt with within the confines of civil law as well as canonical law. Getting it right for both the victims and the accused remains priority one.
    We are discussing adults not children.
    Last edited by opinterph; April 29th, 2013 at 12:24 PM. Reason: fixed quote tags

  11. #11
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    Re: Should we be surprised at another Vatican cover up?

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    We are discussing adults not children.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki Sohma View Post
    I will state that sex crimes committed against children (as well as various other civil crimes) should be dealt with within the confines of civil law as well as canonical law. Getting it right for both the victims and the accused remains priority one.
    Sorry, K., I guess I was speaking in generalities versus specifics to the thread.

    I imagine in the case of adults, it remains the victims responsibility to bring a civil complaint--back on topic
    Last edited by opinterph; April 29th, 2013 at 12:27 PM. Reason: fixed quote tags & attributions

  12. #12
    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: Should we be surprised at another Vatican cover up?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki Sohma View Post
    Sorry, K., I guess I was speaking in generalities versus specifics to the thread.

    I imagine in the case of adults, it remains the victims responsibility to bring a civil complaint--back on topic
    And that is my contention also the fact that these incidents occurred many years ago.

    There is no doubt that the incidents occurred for O'Brien has made a very full public apology to his victims.

    That no further action has been taken by the victims I am assuming that the matter has been closed.

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    Re: Should we be surprised at another Vatican cover up?

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    And that is my contention also the fact that these incidents occurred many years ago.

    There is no doubt that the incidents occurred for O'Brien has made a very full public apology to his victims.

    That no further action has been taken by the victims I am assuming that the matter has been closed.
    Yepp, spot on K.

  14. #14
    JUB Addicts Orlandude's Avatar
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    Re: Should we be surprised at another Vatican cover up?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeicsDom View Post
    ^^ Well that is the Catholic ethos. Do what you like, confess and everything is back to zero
    That's pretty much the "ethos" of most organized christian religions. The concept of confess and everything is fine is found in nearly every christian religion. It is not just the domain of the Catholic church.

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    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: Should we be surprised at another Vatican cover up?

    Quote Originally Posted by Orlandude View Post
    That's pretty much the "ethos" of most organized christian religions. The concept of confess and everything is fine is found in nearly every christian religion. It is not just the domain of the Catholic church.
    Not without making reparation for the offence. Words are never sufficient there must be deeds to evidence contrition.

    In this case O'Brien made a full public apology and "retired" in to oblivion with a big push from The Vatican.

    When I was much younger I can recall occasions in gay bars when over intoxicated gays grabbed my genitals anticipating reciprocal action only to be told by me "fuck off " and be quick about.
    Last edited by kallipolis; April 29th, 2013 at 10:30 AM.

  16. #16
    JUB Addict LeicsDom's Avatar
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    Re: Should we be surprised at another Vatican cover up?

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    And that is my contention also the fact that these incidents occurred many years ago.

    There is no doubt that the incidents occurred for O'Brien has made a very full public apology to his victims.
    In the same way that current allegations against UK celebrities regarding historic sexual assaults shoud not now be investigated and prosecuted?

  17. #17
    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: Should we be surprised at another Vatican cover up?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeicsDom View Post
    In the same way that current allegations against UK celebrities regarding historic sexual assaults shoud not now be investigated and prosecuted?

    In the case that you have brought to our attention the victims would appear not to have filed a complaint with the police nor, appear to be pursuing the matter further after receiving a public apology from O'Brien. The victims were all adults at the time the abuse took place.

    In the case of Jimmy Saville et al the matter is rather different for the accusers were minors at the time the alleged abuse occurred.

  18. #18
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    Re: Should we be surprised at another Vatican cover up?

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    If this is the case then why have the accusers not registered a complaint with the police?

    Apart from being forced to retire into oblivion what additional action are you recommending The Vatican should take against Keith O'Brien?
    Burn him at the stake.

  19. #19
    Are you man enough? unloadonme's Avatar
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    Re: Should we be surprised at another Vatican cover up?

    It's hard to see how the Cardinal O'Brien case could be considered a cover up. It was all over the media more or less as soon as the allegations were made.

    As for what should be done, I'd suggest that firstly the police should consider whether there's evidence to justify a prosecution. Consensual gay sex has not been a criminal offence in the UK for many years, and the parties concerned were all above the age of consent, so it all boils down to whether there was consent or not. That's a legal issue to be tested in court if necessary, not something for the Pope. Innocent until proven guilty and all that.

    Secondly, I'd suggest that the Roman Catholic church should await the outcome of any such legal proceedings and then consider what their response should be to either (a) illegal or (b) legal (but contrary to the church's teaching) sexual activity. It's only at this point that Bender's suggestion above should come into play.

  20. #20
    JUB Addict LeicsDom's Avatar
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    Re: Should we be surprised at another Vatican cover up?

    The latest whitewash
    http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2013/05/04...res-for-exile/
    A Scottish newspaper has claimed that the Cardinal has been asked by Rome to leave the UK.
    What's the betting he ends up in another country without restrictions.
    After all, most priests found to have misbehaved sexually merely get shifted out of sight
    I am betting that the Vatican has said he can remain non-excommunicated if he leaves the UK

  21. #21
    I spell spelled spelt
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    Re: Should we be surprised at another Vatican cover up?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeicsDom View Post
    Am I reading this incorrectly or is he not taking any responsibility at all for what he did to those other priests?

    He added: “I have been supported in a number of ways by many good Christian people and many people of no religion at all who realise I have said sorry to anyone I have offended.

    “If Christianity is about anything at all, it’s about forgiveness. That’s what I have to do as a cardinal priest – just forgive the wrongdoer and help them go back on to the right path again.

    “It has been quite a difficult time for me, quite a humbling experience for me. It’s very difficult for them.

    “That is why I have apologised for being a teacher who has not been able to live up to the teaching of the Church.

    “We know what’s against God’s law. Consequently, we should try to live by God’s law. I’ve apologised for my failures in that respect.”

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    Re: Should we be surprised at another Vatican cover up?

    They have been in denial and covering up for past 500 years or more.

  23. #23
    JUB Addict LeicsDom's Avatar
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    Re: Should we be surprised at another Vatican cover up?

    Quote Originally Posted by gsdx View Post
    Am I reading this incorrectly or is he not taking any responsibility at all for what he did to those other priests?
    Nope, you read it right!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by bike10 View Post
    They have been in denial and covering up for past 500 years or more.
    More like 2000 !!!

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