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Thread: The Bush Legacy

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    The Bush Legacy

    He's the darling of the 85 - Bush 2 - blamed for everything but AIDS

    stuff on his watch - and the first 4 difficult years under Pres. Barack Obama

    when in fact much of us owe GWB a debt of gratitude for .....

    “He kept us safe.”

    Great piece by Charles Krauthammer - a couple of truths:

    One is Barack Obama's actions as President vs. his words as candidate

    That homage was paid, wordlessly, by Barack Obama, who vilified Bush’s anti-terror policies as a candidate, then continued them as president: indefinite detention, rendition, warrantless wiretaps, special forces and drone warfare, and, most notoriously, Guantanamo, which Obama so ostentatiously denounced — until he found it indispensable.
    there was not one successful terror bombing on U.S. soil from 9/11 until last week
    He gets blamed for Iraq but .....

    Iraq was, of course, far more problematic. Critics conveniently forget that the invasion had broad support from the public and Congress, including from those who became the highest foreign-policy figures in the Obama administration — Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, Chuck Hagel, and Biden.
    History will judge Bush 2 much better

    Like Bush, Harry Truman left office widely scorned, largely because of the inconclusive war he left behind. In time, however, Korea came to be seen as but one battle in a much larger Cold War that Truman was instrumental in winning. He established the institutional and policy infrastructure (CIA, NATO, Truman Doctrine, etc.) that made possible ultimate victory almost a half-century later. I suspect history will similarly see Bush as the man who, by trial and error but also with prescience and principle, established the structures that will take us through another long twilight struggle, and enable us to prevail.
    http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...65/bush-legacy

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    Re: The Bush Legacy

    Nope,sorry,no matter how hard they try to spin it,the Iraq war will always be a failure. He destablized the Middle East and made it more dangerous,not less for the U.S.

  3. #3

    Re: The Bush Legacy

    Bush made the world much more dangerous and unstable. Absolutely untrue that he made us safe. We've lost due process rights because of him.

    Obama is now extending Bush's awful legacy one thousand fold.

  4. #4

    Re: The Bush Legacy

    Oh cool.... another thread about GWB.....

    Great propaganda piece from the National Review. What did you expect from William F Buckley's magazine anyway... condemnation of Bush? Nope.

    What's is it with the right wing and Bush's "he kept us safe" anyway? He most certainly didn't keep us safe, especially on 9/11. Thousands of Americans died from terrorist attacks during George W Bush's Presidency. How quickly they try to sanitize, rewrite and especially, spin this. And yes, Iraq was his doing. He lied to the AMerican public about WMDs.

    We're still suffering the effects of his 8 years of damage and we will feel it for years to come. Comparing him to Truman is laughable. Charles Krauthammer is a shill for the republican party. What else would you expect from a Fox News talking head.

    Read this article for what it is.... spin.

    Damn, the right wing has a selective memory.

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    Re: The Bush Legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyBob View Post
    Oh cool.... another thread about GWB.....

    Great propaganda piece from the National Review. What did you expect from William F Buckley's magazine anyway... condemnation of Bush? Nope.

    What's is it with the right wing and Bush's "he kept us safe" anyway? He most certainly didn't keep us safe, especially on 9/11. Thousands of Americans died from terrorist attacks during George W Bush's Presidency. How quickly they try to sanitize, rewrite and especially, spin this. And yes, Iraq was his doing. He lied to the AMerican public about WMDs.

    We're still suffering the effects of his 8 years of damage and we will feel it for years to come. Comparing him to Truman is laughable. Charles Krauthammer is a shill for the republican party. What else would you expect from a Fox News talking head.

    Read this article for what it is.... spin.

    Damn, the right wing has a selective memory.
    what part of the article do u rebuke ? oh yeah you'd have to have read it to rebuke it

    that'd be the right thing to do

    Bush's anti terror polices are so successful that President Obama has continued them

    hmmmm

    is that propaganda ?

    LOL

  6. #6

    Re: The Bush Legacy

    Oh, here we go with the "did you read the article" defense again..

    Here's how "safe" George W bush kept us:



    yeah, that's real safe.

    Just ignore this, as Bush kept us safe starting 9/12.


  7. #7

    Re: The Bush Legacy

    Here's the Pentagon:



    George W Bush couldn't keep us safe on 9/11 because he was busy having My Pet Goat read to him. (legend has it he was doing the reading but I doubt he knew how.)



    Look at how safe he's keeping us. After this he was whisked away in Air Force One and no one knew where he was. He went AWOL for the second time.

    Oh so safe. At least he was safe...... no one else was.

    Yep, the worst President in history, keeping us safe.

    Are there videos of this in his Presidential library?
    Last edited by CowboyBob; April 27th, 2013 at 11:04 PM.

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    Re: The Bush Legacy

    There was also the anthrax attacks,the shoe bomber,the smiley face bomber,the 56 people killed overseas at embassies,something which Tom Cotton and other bush lovers fail to mention.
    And there's his using homophobia to get him reelected.

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    Re: The Bush Legacy

    I read the article, and I missed the part that actually wrote of a positive legacy Bush has left us. My memory of his 8 years left us with two failed wars, one of which was a criminal invasion that cost the lives of thousands of Americans. After federal incompetence lead to 9/11, Bush's response was to pass the Patriot Act, which was the worst violation of the U.S. Constitution in modern history. Innocent American citizens were wiretapped without warrants as the government overstepped its boundaries. His Supreme Court appointments allowed for the Citizens United ruling, which poured hundreds of millions dollars more into a general election that encouraged corruption through special interests.

    Other atrocities of the Bush Administration include:

    1. Turning a tax surplus into a massive deficit by passing unfunded tax cuts on borrowed money that benefited mainly the wealthiest in the country.

    2. Opening of Guantanamo Bay prison, a legacy unfortunately carried on by Obama to this day.

    3. Praised his administration for the housing market boom rather than seeking regulation, leading to on the onset of the worst economic crash since the Great Depression.

    4. Slashed Nixon-era environmental protection laws to allow for the unregulated use of hydraulic fracking that is killing people and causing irreparable damage to our environment.

    5. Set gay rights back nearly a decade by using the office of the president to promote anti-marriage equality laws and demonized homosexuals. Under his administration, half the states in the Union passed anti-marriage equality laws.

    6. Passed the disastrous No Child Left Behind Act. There's not a school district, teacher, administrator, parent, or student in this country that has a good thing to say about this law that punished struggling schools for needing the most help, and guaranteeing all schools to eventually fail its preposterous 100% proficiency standard.

    7. Bush's prescription drug plan was a disaster that exasperated rising health care costs that it promised to contain. Rather than benefiting seniors, it boosted profit margins for the health care industry as it shut out generic medications from Canada.
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  10. #10

    Re: The Bush Legacy

    ^^^ That's an excellent itemization of his failures.

    Paul Krugman makes a further important point:

    But I think there was something even bigger, in some ways, than his policy failures: Bush brought an unprecedented level of systematic dishonesty to American political life, and we may never recover.
    http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/201...reat-degrader/

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    Re: The Bush Legacy

    How many people did he send to their deaths in Iraq to keep the US 'safe'???????

    And let's be clear here. The seeds of the retaliatory attacks and attempted attacks on the US since 9-11 were all sown because of the Halliburton/Bush doctrine.

    But nice to know that BUSH has one undying fan here.

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    Re: The Bush Legacy

    We've had enough Bushes."
    Barbara Bush

    I find nothing redeeming in the man. I will also not participate in this exercise (so old by now).

  13. #13

    Re: The Bush Legacy

    A very dishonest list. 1. A tax surplus is by definition an excess of taxation. After Reagan and Bush ended the cold war, a lost of expenses were freed up. After 9/11 the economy plunged, and was turned around by the Bush tax cuts. The economy stayed strong until the Democrats took the Senate and the economy collapsed.
    2. Guantanamo is the best solution to a difficult problem, as proven by the fact that Obama has not found a better solution.
    3. The most dishonest item is the claim that mortgage lending was unregulated. At that time every bank had an entire book shelf of regulations, with two separate regulatory agencies making periodic examinations of their lending records to be sure every i was dotted and t crossed. There was actually a separate examination to insure that banks were complying with the Community Reinvestment and related acts which were a big part of the problem. Those laws and regulations required banks to loan to the poor and in minority neighborhoods, as a condition to making good loans. So in order to make good loans, banks made a lot of loans they would have preferred to make. And those loans were individually reviewed by regulators. Then the Federal Reserve began raising interest rates to prevent possible inflation. The interest on the variable rate mortgages to marginal borrowers went up. Some loans became non-performing. The regulators required banks to reduce the value of mortgages to reflect higher rates--"marking to market". And, it snow balled. Banks stopped making loans our of fear.
    After the fact, it is easy to say different regulations were needed. But it certainly was not a lack of regulation which caused the collapse. IT WAS REGULATION, primarily Democrat law requiring undesirable loans, and requiring the loans to be marked down at the first sign of interest raises.
    4. Objectors to fracking are from the environmental fanatics who oppose all energy in favor of some fantasy future in which we will not need oil, or nuclear, or coal. How is it killing people?
    5. The States, in passing marriage acts were not "under his administration." The States act independently in such matters.
    6. The purpose of NCLB was to impose some objective standards on teachers from without, rather than allowing them to teach willy nilly, whatever they choose. The teachers and their infamous union have opposed it because it does not promote their agenda, of higher and higher salaries and taxation with no accountability.
    7. The drug plan has reduced costs of drugs to seniors. It did not shut out generic medications from Canada. Generics are not the problem. The problem are the drugs still in the patent period. They cost enormous amounts of money to develop, get approved and then manufactured. Canada and other countries control drug prices, the US does not. It is more important to allow new drugs to be developed than the prohibit expensive drugs. You cannot kill the goose and still collect the eggs. But Canada controls the price and drug companies have little choice but to sell to Canadian distributors as lower cost. The effect is that Americans have to pay the cost of development and approval.
    The big problem is when Canadian companies sell the drugs back into the US at the low price. If allowed to continue, it impairs the ability of companies to develop new drugs. They need some way to recover their investment. Liberals, being silly, think drug companies should spend billions developing a drug, and then sell it cheap. They should not be concerned with profits.
    Last edited by Benvolio; April 28th, 2013 at 04:49 AM.

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    Re: The Bush Legacy

    ^ ha ha ha

    Glad to see that Canada comes in for its licks now. Wow. And isn't it amazing that the multi-national companies that develop drugs haven't gone bankrupt. And that there hasn't been any slowdown in the development of new drugs around the world.

    Is everything in your world the fault of someone else?

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    Re: The Bush Legacy

    It looks like chance1 has a friend in Benvolio. Unbelievable ass kissing in this thread. Just_Believe18 said it best for me. Here is a bipartisan article I found not long ago that says it all. It isn't GOP spin like the link in the original post and yes I read the whole article. It was most sickening for me.

    http://www.hrw.org/en/node/100390
    United States: Investigate Bush, Other Top Officials for Torture
    Inquiry Into 2 Deaths in CIA Custody Insufficient
    July 11, 2011

    There's overwhelming evidence of torture by the Bush administration. The Obama administration has a legal obligation to investigate. Jessie Graham reports.

    There are solid grounds to investigate Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Tenet for authorizing torture and war crimes. President Obama has treated torture as an unfortunate policy choice rather than a crime. His decision to end abusive interrogation practices will remain easily reversible unless the legal prohibition against torture is clearly reestablished.
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    Re: The Bush Legacy

    Just a quick note about the nonsense related to pharmaceuticals. It would appear that the amount spent on marketing drugs in the capitalist free market grotesquely exceeds the amount spent on researching new life-saving treatments:

    http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/...l.pmed.0050001

    When pharmaceutical companies spend a quarter of their sales totals on marketing, and only 13% on research, it is clear that geese and golden eggs have nothing to do with it.

    American citizens lose $57 billion a year that could have gone to research. It means you could turn the industry over to the most inept of soviet-style central planners, wasting $56 billion dollars each year on bureaucratic fuck-uppery and still have an extra billion left over for more research.

    Or, you could just take note that medicines cost a third more than they need to and have governments cap the prices accordingly without taking one damn cent away from research. Canadians do not need advertising to know what viagra does. Canadians do not want their chemotherapy being planned out on the basis of which company wines and dines their doctors the best.
    Last edited by bankside; April 28th, 2013 at 06:32 AM.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

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    Re: The Bush Legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by Just_Believe18 View Post
    I read the article, and I missed the part that actually wrote of a positive legacy Bush has left us. My memory of his 8 years left us with two failed wars, one of which was a criminal invasion that cost the lives of thousands of Americans. After federal incompetence lead to 9/11, Bush's response was to pass the Patriot Act, which was the worst violation of the U.S. Constitution in modern history. Innocent American citizens were wiretapped without warrants as the government overstepped its boundaries. His Supreme Court appointments allowed for the Citizens United ruling, which poured hundreds of millions dollars more into a general election that encouraged corruption through special interests.Other atrocities of the Bush Administration include:1. Turning a tax surplus into a massive deficit by passing unfunded tax cuts on borrowed money that benefited mainly the wealthiest in the country.2. Opening of Guantanamo Bay prison, a legacy unfortunately carried on by Obama to this day.3. Praised his administration for the housing market boom rather than seeking regulation, leading to on the onset of the worst economic crash since the Great Depression.4. Slashed Nixon-era environmental protection laws to allow for the unregulated use of hydraulic fracking that is killing people and causing irreparable damage to our environment.5. Set gay rights back nearly a decade by using the office of the president to promote anti-marriage equality laws and demonized homosexuals. Under his administration, half the states in the Union passed anti-marriage equality laws.6. Passed the disastrous No Child Left Behind Act. There's not a school district, teacher, administrator, parent, or student in this country that has a good thing to say about this law that punished struggling schools for needing the most help, and guaranteeing all schools to eventually fail its preposterous 100% proficiency standard.7. Bush's prescription drug plan was a disaster that exasperated rising health care costs that it promised to contain. Rather than benefiting seniors, it boosted profit margins for the health care industry as it shut out generic medications from Canada.
    The piece is about ONE thing JBAbout the response to 911 and instituting changesTo prevent anotherSo it's a specific case about that Your laundry list of other items is grand but not Germaine here Please respond to the authors points Thx

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    Re: The Bush Legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    How many people did he send to their deaths in Iraq to keep the US 'safe'???????And let's be clear here. The seeds of the retaliatory attacks and attempted attacks on the US since 9-11 were all sown because of the Halliburton/Bush doctrine.But nice to know that BUSH has one undying fan here.
    The point CK makes is that the Iraq war was supported by high ranking current Obama appointeesDid u miss that part ?Too busy planning your response to read ?And I respect GWB Just as I respect pres Obama They are our presidents Oh yeah OUR presidents Not YOURS

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    Re: The Bush Legacy

    In other words, keep your opinion to yourself!



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    Re: The Bush Legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    The point CK makes is that the Iraq war was supported by high ranking current Obama appointeesDid u miss that part ?Too busy planning your response to read ?And I respect GWB Just as I respect pres Obama They are our presidents Oh yeah OUR presidents Not YOURS
    Oh Jesus Chance. Enough with the attempts to diminish someone's opinions because you don't think they have the right or the smarts to be able to express them. If it hasn't occurred to you yet, the president of the US is everyone's president on this planet. The decisions that this person makes have a profound and indelible impact on each of us...whether we get to vote for them or not.

    But enough of the marginalizing because you don't like what you read. It makes you sound like you have the mentality of a 17 year old.

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    Re: The Bush Legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    A very dishonest list. 1. A tax surplus is by definition an excess of taxation. After Reagan and Bush ended the cold war, a lost of expenses were freed up. After 9/11 the economy plunged, and was turned around by the Bush tax cuts. The economy stayed strong until the Democrats took the Senate and the economy collapsed.
    2. Guantanamo is the best solution to a difficult problem, as proven by the fact that Obama has not found a better solution.
    3. The most dishonest item is the claim that mortgage lending was unregulated. At that time every bank had an entire book shelf of regulations, with two separate regulatory agencies making periodic examinations of their lending records to be sure every i was dotted and t crossed. There was actually a separate examination to insure that banks were complying with the Community Reinvestment and related acts which were a big part of the problem. Those laws and regulations required banks to loan to the poor and in minority neighborhoods, as a condition to making good loans. So in order to make good loans, banks made a lot of loans they would have preferred to make. And those loans were individually reviewed by regulators. Then the Federal Reserve began raising interest rates to prevent possible inflation. The interest on the variable rate mortgages to marginal borrowers went up. Some loans became non-performing. The regulators required banks to reduce the value of mortgages to reflect higher rates--"marking to market". And, it snow balled. Banks stopped making loans our of fear.
    After the fact, it is easy to say different regulations were needed. But it certainly was not a lack of regulation which caused the collapse. IT WAS REGULATION, primarily Democrat law requiring undesirable loans, and requiring the loans to be marked down at the first sign of interest raises.
    4. Objectors to fracking are from the environmental fanatics who oppose all energy in favor of some fantasy future in which we will not need oil, or nuclear, or coal. How is it killing people?
    5. The States, in passing marriage acts were not "under his administration." The States act independently in such matters.
    6. The purpose of NCLB was to impose some objective standards on teachers from without, rather than allowing them to teach willy nilly, whatever they choose. The teachers and their infamous union have opposed it because it does not promote their agenda, of higher and higher salaries and taxation with no accountability.
    7. The drug plan has reduced costs of drugs to seniors. It did not shut out generic medications from Canada. Generics are not the problem. The problem are the drugs still in the patent period. They cost enormous amounts of money to develop, get approved and then manufactured. Canada and other countries control drug prices, the US does not. It is more important to allow new drugs to be developed than the prohibit expensive drugs. You cannot kill the goose and still collect the eggs. But Canada controls the price and drug companies have little choice but to sell to Canadian distributors as lower cost. The effect is that Americans have to pay the cost of development and approval.
    The big problem is when Canadian companies sell the drugs back into the US at the low price. If allowed to continue, it impairs the ability of companies to develop new drugs. They need some way to recover their investment. Liberals, being silly, think drug companies should spend billions developing a drug, and then sell it cheap. They should not be concerned with profits.
    So... when does the excavation on Mt. Rushmore begin?

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    Re: The Bush Legacy

    Here we go. Jon Stewart has the ideal report on the Bush Lie bury. Worth the watch!

    http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/th...rpiece-theater


    Thursday April 25, 2013
    Library Accomplished - Disasterpiece Theater
    Al Madrigal visits the George W. Bush Presidential Library and aces the test based on the former president's pivotal policy decisions.
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  23. #23

    Re: The Bush Legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    Just a quick note about the nonsense related to pharmaceuticals. It would appear that the amount spent on marketing drugs in the capitalist free market grotesquely exceeds the amount spent on researching new life-saving treatments:

    http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/...l.pmed.0050001

    When pharmaceutical companies spend a quarter of their sales totals on marketing, and only 13% on research, it is clear that geese and golden eggs have nothing to do with it.

    American citizens lose $57 billion a year that could have gone to research. It means you could turn the industry over to the most inept of soviet-style central planners, wasting $56 billion dollars each year on bureaucratic fuck-uppery and still have an extra billion left over for more research.

    Or, you could just take note that medicines cost a third more than they need to and have governments cap the prices accordingly without taking one damn cent away from research. Canadians do not need advertising to know what viagra does. Canadians do not want their chemotherapy being planned out on the basis of which company wines and dines their doctors the best.
    Why do you suppose they spend money on marketing? Obviously it is because they want to increase unit sales by informing the public what is available. They are not doing it to waste money or decrease their profits. By increasing the number of units sold, they are able to spread the cost of development over more units and bring down the cost per unit. Put it this way. If it cost a billion to develop a drug and the sell a thousand units, they cannot recover the investment withou charging a million a pill. If they sell a billion units, they can charge a dollar each to recover their invest. But, they have found, they need to advertise to increase the volume. Silly liberals think the advertising expense is wasted, and that the companies would sell as many units without marketing. But they really hate the idea that the companies make a profit, when they do.

  24. #24

    Re: The Bush Legacy

    It's pathetic to see these fools so desperately try to find something positive about this war criminal President. They turn a blind eye to his atrocities. They will never admit they made a mistake in supporting this man and that says a lot about them.

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    Re: The Bush Legacy

    One of his own advisors said on a Sunday morning show---no matter what he does, Iraq was such a disaster and has made the world unsafe and unstable for at least the next 20 years--(-the moron chicken hawk) he can never change that---this coming from someone honest in his administration-- and George Will essentially agreeing with him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Just_Believe18 View Post
    I read the article, and I missed the part that actually wrote of a positive legacy Bush has left us. My memory of his 8 years left us with two failed wars, one of which was a criminal invasion that cost the lives of thousands of Americans. After federal incompetence lead to 9/11, Bush's response was to pass the Patriot Act, which was the worst violation of the U.S. Constitution in modern history. Innocent American citizens were wiretapped without warrants as the government overstepped its boundaries. His Supreme Court appointments allowed for the Citizens United ruling, which poured hundreds of millions dollars more into a general election that encouraged corruption through special interests.

    Other atrocities of the Bush Administration include:

    1. Turning a tax surplus into a massive deficit by passing unfunded tax cuts on borrowed money that benefited mainly the wealthiest in the country.

    2. Opening of Guantanamo Bay prison, a legacy unfortunately carried on by Obama to this day.

    3. Praised his administration for the housing market boom rather than seeking regulation, leading to on the onset of the worst economic crash since the Great Depression.

    4. Slashed Nixon-era environmental protection laws to allow for the unregulated use of hydraulic fracking that is killing people and causing irreparable damage to our environment.

    5. Set gay rights back nearly a decade by using the office of the president to promote anti-marriage equality laws and demonized homosexuals. Under his administration, half the states in the Union passed anti-marriage equality laws.

    6. Passed the disastrous No Child Left Behind Act. There's not a school district, teacher, administrator, parent, or student in this country that has a good thing to say about this law that punished struggling schools for needing the most help, and guaranteeing all schools to eventually fail its preposterous 100% proficiency standard.

    7. Bush's prescription drug plan was a disaster that exasperated rising health care costs that it promised to contain. Rather than benefiting seniors, it boosted profit margins for the health care industry as it shut out generic medications from Canada.
    Hush! Don't mention gay issues lest you be accused of litmus testing!

    Great post!
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    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyBob View Post
    It's pathetic to see these fools so desperately try to find something positive about this war criminal President. They turn a blind eye to his atrocities. They will never admit they made a mistake in supporting this man and that says a lot about them.
    Which is kinda funny considering his own party pretends he doesn't exist. They've stashed him in a dark corner, thumbs in their pockets and whistling casually.

    It's also way funny how our right wingers here are more fanatical than the GOP. But of course it makes sense. A very sad sort of sense...
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  28. #28
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    [Quoted Post: Removed]
    Americans were NOT safe in those 8 years. They lost freedoms, lost their face to the world and they lost their integrity but that doesn't equate to safety.

    And yes, I read the article.
    Last edited by opinterph; April 28th, 2013 at 05:26 PM. Reason: removed verbiage quoted from another poster
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  29. #29

    Re: The Bush Legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Which is kinda funny considering his own party pretends he doesn't exist. They've stashed him in a dark corner, thumbs in their pockets and whistling casually.

    It's also way funny how our right wingers here are more fanatical than the GOP. But of course it makes sense. A very sad sort of sense...
    GWB is an embarrassment to the republican party and do everything they can to keep his name out of the public eye. However sometimes his name and legacy will raise it's ugly head and we're reminded of his disastrous Presidency. It's then when these propagandists scramble to spin and rewrite history in an attempt to make him appear less of a failure. He wasn't even invited to the last Republican Convention. He's a Victorian Cripple..... someone you're ashamed of so you won't talk about him and keep him hidden away.

    This "he kept us safe after 9/11" is one of the most ridiculous pieces of propaganda I've ever heard. Why aren't they remembering 9/11 happened under his watch and he ignored the warnings. Iraq was invaded using the "WMDs" lie and the right wing tries to spin that. Demonizing Obama for "expanding the Patriot Act" when they conveniently forget who enacted the thing in the first place.

    The collapse of the economy isn't the fault of GWB. It's Obama's fault for not cleaning up the mess as soon as he entered office in 2009.

    It's not funny about these right wingers.... it's pathetic to see them make total fools of themselves by defending George W Bush at all. And it's just too fucking bad the OP doesn't like the replies he's received in this thread he started. The truth hurts sometimes.

  30. #30
    Banned chance1's Avatar
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    Re: The Bush Legacy

    Good that u read it Rolyo

    Proof that things can change

    You're big on numbers ...... See gun control issues

    And I agree on that

    The numbers say we're safer since 911

    And GWB as chief architect with Obama following (good for him) as the guy we thank

    Not denigrate

    - - - Updated - - -

    Good that u read it Rolyo

    Proof that things can change

    You're big on numbers ...... See gun control issues

    And I agree on that

    The numbers say we're safer since 911

    And GWB as chief architect with Obama following (good for him) as the guy we thank

    Not denigrate

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    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    I don't think numbers support Bush at all... Not worth the thousands dead in 9/11, the tens of thousands dead in Iraq and Afghanistan, or the multiple fatalities in attacks on embassies in the Middle East.

    And let me ask you - while we're being semi-cordial to each other - is in your opinion the overblown "four dead Americans!" Benghazi fiasco somehow different from all of the similar but much more numerous attacks that occurred during Bush? Because the rest of the 15% never addresses that, and I stead deflect the issue every way they can.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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    Re: The Bush Legacy

    Since 911 - that's what prompted the change

    Start there please

    That's the point

    The numbers are people - the countless lives saved by Bush terror apparatus

    Since followed by Obama - which should supply YOU with all u need to at least look at fairly if not positively

    Benghazi was a major fuck up - for the State Dept which not follow information and for the president who after the fact lied to the American people - for political purposes

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    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    I wasn't asking for your opinion about Benghazi, but rather how was it different from the attacks during Bush.

    Also, is there any data to really support that people have been safer since 9/11? I mean, sounds like all those mythical killings prevented by gun owners. Sorta.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

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    Re: The Bush Legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    I wasn't asking for your opinion about Benghazi, but rather how was it different from the attacks during Bush.

    Also, is there any data to really support that people have been safer since 9/11? I mean, sounds like all those mythical killings prevented by gun owners. Sorta.
    We were not attacked

    That's the point

    As for Benghazi your question is silly

    The major issue was the whitewashing of it

    And a member here who blamed the ambassador himself

    That's how sick the thing was

    Apologists coming out of the woodwork

    In "defense" mode vs "lets find out"

  35. #35
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    It's not silly. I was not here when the Bush attacks occurred. So I want to know is there another reason for the double standard, or is it just intellectual dishonesty?

    As for "we were not attacked", it's a very thin ice to walk on. You were also not attacked by aliens. Or invaded by China. You were not seriously attacked during Clinton either. The "you can't prove it's not Bush's achievement since it didn't happen" is sorta... Lame.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  36. #36
    JubberClubber White Eagle's Avatar
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    Re: The Bush Legacy

    Thanks Rolyo85, You are making more sense than certain people here, the ones who will not accept Ws disastrous admin.
    BEWARE! Harassing the Indian may result in sudden and severe hair loss.

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    Re: The Bush Legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    We were not attacked

    That's the point

    As for Benghazi your question is silly

    The major issue was the whitewashing of it

    And a member here who blamed the ambassador himself

    That's how sick the thing was

    Apologists coming out of the woodwork

    In "defense" mode vs "lets find out"
    (emphasis mine)

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    when in fact much of us owe GWB a debt of gratitude for .....

    “He kept us safe.”
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

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    veni, vidi, reliqui
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    Re: The Bush Legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    Since 911 - that's what prompted the change

    Start there please

    That's the point

    The numbers are people - the countless lives saved by Bush terror apparatus

    Since followed by Obama - which should supply YOU with all u need to at least look at fairly if not positively

    Benghazi was a major fuck up - for the State Dept which not follow information and for the president who after the fact lied to the American people - for political purposes

    BENGHaZI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    Re: The Bush Legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by White Eagle View Post
    Thanks Rolyo85, You are making more sense than certain people here, the ones who will not accept Ws disastrous admin.
    LOL

    says the

    "Bush Lie-Bury" source

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    Re: The Bush Legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    BENGHaZI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    i think you're compensating (over) with BIG here - what's that about ?

    Bush kept the country and the citizens of the UNITED STATES safe

    difficult for a foreigner to understand I guess

  41. #41
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    Re: The Bush Legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    i think you're compensating (over) with BIG here - what's that about ?

    Bush kept the country and the citizens of the UNITED STATES safe

    difficult for a foreigner to understand I guess
    Except for the thousands of Americans he threw under the bus in Iraq.

    And no Chance...the jingoistic Us vs. 'you foreigners' isn't going to work.

    It just makes you look small and silly.

  42. #42
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    Re: The Bush Legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    i think you're compensating (over) with BIG here - what's that about ?

    Bush kept the country and the citizens of the UNITED STATES safe

    difficult for a foreigner to understand I guess
    Why are you excusing Bush for 9/11 from occurring on his watch? Especially when there was plenty of advance notice that something big was about to go down?

    Did he keep us safe, then?

    He doesn't get a free pass for that, Chance.

    I think you seem to be trolling in here, honestly.
    Last edited by MystikWizard; April 28th, 2013 at 03:18 PM.
    Telling it like it is.

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    Re: The Bush Legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    [Quoted Post: Removed]
    Speaking of intellectual honesty, I have to point out that this post didn't address ANYTHING I said. It was just random attacks, but no actual answers.

    So I ask again - was Benghazi DIFFERENT from the Bush embassy attacks? And if so - how? I don't think it's that difficult a question.

    And I guess the only real argument for "he kept us safe" is "they didn't attack again (much)", but that could (and does) just as easily mean that it was a one-time attack.
    Last edited by opinterph; April 28th, 2013 at 05:24 PM. Reason: removed verbiage quoted from another poster
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

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    Re: The Bush Legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    Except for the thousands of Americans he threw under the bus in Iraq.

    And no Chance...the jingoistic Us vs. 'you foreigners' isn't going to work.

    It just makes you look small and silly.
    its not "jingo-istic" - you just want it to be

    bottom line is as a canadian, 911 is an event that just doesn't have the same significance to you as it does to me

    just as I am not a Jew, the holocaust, isn't the same thing

    that's not anything other than real - try it sometime instead of your bullshit

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    Re: The Bush Legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by MystikWizard View Post
    Why are you excusing Bush for 9/11 from occurring on his watch? Especially when there was plenty of advance notice that something big was about to go down?

    Did he keep us safe, then?

    He doesn't get a free pass for that, Chance.

    I think you seem to be trolling in here, honestly.
    did u read the article Mystik ?

    Charles K wrote it

    it's about safety measures AFTER 911

    I happen to agree with some of it

    sorry you think that's trolling

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    Re: The Bush Legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Speaking of intellectual honesty, I have to point out that this post didn't address ANYTHING I said. It was just random attacks, but no actual answers.

    So I ask again - was Benghazi DIFFERENT from the Bush embassy attacks? And if so - how? I don't think it's that difficult a question.

    And I guess the only real argument for "he kept us safe" is "they didn't attack again (much)", but that could (and does) just as easily mean that it was a one-time attack.
    LOL the "bush embassy attacks"

    do u even know where/when they were ?

    the "bush embassy attacks"

    more proof of how your mind operates

    it was "one time attack"?" really ?

    are you familiar with terrorists ?

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    FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE! TX-Beau's Avatar
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    Re: The Bush Legacy

    What I find funny is that this whole thread came about because some right winger told chance to compare Korea (a war with an actual enemy - hence an actual war) in which the pubs did not try to fuck us over , with the "war" on terrorism (a TACTIC) which you can never win ever ever ever - and using that to take our rights away, and apparently Chance was buying.

    Intellectual dishonesty anyone? Table for two?

    Chance, of course right wing-nuts are going to polish that knob, they have no choice unless they want to admit what a miserable failure all of the policies concerned turned out to be - let's see, erosion of the constitution, and endless war against an idea, financial collapse - right wing lunatics run wild, did I miss anything? No he didn't "keep us safe" He took us to war against a guy - and let's just bold this;

    WHO HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH 9-11

    - and made us a whole new set of enemies all the while antagonizing everyone else including our allies. He was a lying cheating bastard who I'll actually partially excuse, ONLY because he spent 8 years with Darth Cheney's arm up his ass while Cheney pulled his ventriloquism act from an undisclosed location.

    "...BUT BUT BUT TRUMANS and safe and SMU (the faculty tried to force the school to send the library elsewhere) and thousand points of light (wait, wrong one)..."

    Please. Sell that snake oil elsewhere. That same set tried to say Nixon didn't break any laws.
    Last edited by TX-Beau; April 28th, 2013 at 04:00 PM.
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

  48. #48
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: The Bush Legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    LOL the "bush embassy attacks"

    do u even know where/when they were ?

    the "bush embassy attacks"

    more proof of how your mind operates

    it was "one time attack"?" really ?

    are you familiar with terrorists ?
    I know when/where they were, because someone has bothered to make a chart of it, and it's circulating the internet. Other than criticizing my expression, you could answer the question.

    And I am familiar enough with terrorists to know that they didn't START existing on 9/11 but were in existence long before that - centuries actually - and somehow Americans didn't need to surrender freedoms and subject themselves to humiliation in the name of "safety" from them. Of course it wasn't just "one time attack" in the sense that no others would ever happen, but it was also not some opening strike in some planned prolonged campaign, so to claim that Bush is somehow responsible for no further attacks happening is - yes - dishonest. It was a huge operation that probably took years to plan, and while the same people would have eventually planned something else - hadn't OBAMA put an end to them - I find the notion that they had ten other similar operations up their sleeve and only Bush's actions somehow prevented them from putting them in action, to be suspect at best.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

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    Re: The Bush Legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    its not "jingo-istic" - you just want it to be

    bottom line is as a canadian, 911 is an event that just doesn't have the same significance to you as it does to me

    just as I am not a Jew, the holocaust, isn't the same thing

    that's not anything other than real - try it sometime instead of your bullshit


    Oh step the fuck off with that shit. Being American grants neither you nor I any special tingles you don't INVENT for yourself.

    All that is, is you trying to discredit an opinion with moonbeams and fairy dust. I'm really surprised though that you would admit that you don't understand how abhorrent the Holocaust was because you aren't Jewish. Explains a lot actually.

    GODWIN'S LAW!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Chance loses.
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

  50. #50

    Re: The Bush Legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by MystikWizard View Post
    Why are you excusing Bush for 9/11 from occurring on his watch? Especially when there was plenty of advance notice that something big was about to go down?

    Did he keep us safe, then?

    He doesn't get a free pass for that, Chance.

    I think you seem to be trolling in here, honestly.
    Of course, you will apply the same standard to Obama's Administration, which was told several times that Tsarnaev and family were dangerous, and who had a radical Islamist website ; a mother on the terrorist list, etc. Far, far more specificity than the warning that "something big" was going down, you claim, somewhere in the USA. And the US had passenger inspections which should have found the box cutters. Who would have dreamed that they could highjack two planes with box cutters?
    No, your hypocrisy will not allow you to be reasonable.

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