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  1. #1

    Congressional Democrats & Their Aides Run From ObamaCare

    Democrat Congressman always look out for themselves. They are wanting an exemption for them and their aides from ObamaCare. They realize that the new law will cost them and their staff more money.

    Dem's have no problem spending other people's money - but don't want to spend their own money.

    Dem's want the taxpayers to subsidize their high ObamaCare expenses.

    Yet if Capitol Hill leaders move forward with the plan, they risk being dubbed hypocrites by their political rivals and the American public. By removing themselves from a key Obamacare component, lawmakers and aides would be held to a different standard than the people who put them in office.

    Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/0...#ixzz2RVLXsXVI
    Hopefully Boehner and McConnell will not cave so Congress can experience the disaster called ObamaCare.


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    Re: Congressional Democrats & Their Aides Run From ObamaCare

    The joke has always been: "there is no tax a Democrat didn't like".

  3. #3

    Re: Congressional Democrats & Their Aides Run From ObamaCare

    ^^^

    Just as long as that tax does not cost them personally.

  4. #4

    Re: Congressional Democrats & Their Aides Run From ObamaCare

    Tax reform means, 'Don't tax you, don't tax me. Tax that fellow behind the tree.'

    A tax loophole is something that benefits the other guy. If it benefits you, it is tax reform.

    Russell B. long

    This guy was a Democrat if you can believe it.
    Only government can take perfectly good paper, cover it with perfectly good ink and make the combination worthless.

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    Re: Congressional Democrats & Their Aides Run From ObamaCare

    If report is true, reprehensible and worthy of criticism.

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    Re: Congressional Democrats & Their Aides Run From ObamaCare

    Seems you forgot to mention that it's both sides who are running away. That's the first sentence of the article. Also, not all congressional Democrats voted for Obamacare.

  7. #7

    Re: Congressional Democrats & Their Aides Run From ObamaCare

    Springer's cartoon comes from:

    http://netrightdaily.com

    Go there and read some of the stuff that's going on inside the heads of the far right wing fringe.

  8. #8

    Re: Congressional Democrats & Their Aides Run From ObamaCare

    Quote Originally Posted by Orlandude View Post
    Seems you forgot to mention that it's both sides who are running away. That's the first sentence of the article. Also, not all congressional Democrats voted for Obamacare.

    This is why your statement is worthless.

    http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Did_any_Re...re_reform_bill
    Only government can take perfectly good paper, cover it with perfectly good ink and make the combination worthless.

  9. #9

    Re: Congressional Democrats & Their Aides Run From ObamaCare

    Please read what I wrote about Boehner and McConnell.

    It's also important to state that not one republican voted for ObamaCare.

    Democrats own it. Obama owns it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orlandude View Post
    Seems you forgot to mention that it's both sides who are running away. That's the first sentence of the article. Also, not all congressional Democrats voted for Obamacare.
    Last edited by Jack Springer; April 25th, 2013 at 03:07 PM.

  10. #10

    Re: Congressional Democrats & Their Aides Run From ObamaCare

    Who cares where I got the cartoon -- ever heard of google?

    Quit trying to change the subject. This thread is about how congressmen and their staff are trying to change the law to benefit themselves over the taxpayer.

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyBob View Post
    Springer's cartoon comes from:

    http://netrightdaily.com

    Go there and read some of the stuff that's going on inside the heads of the far right wing fringe.

  11. #11
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    Re: Congressional Democrats & Their Aides Run From ObamaCare

    An auspicious beginning for sure

  12. #12
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    Re: Congressional Democrats & Their Aides Run From ObamaCare

    A cute headline, but it is completely false. Here is Ezra Klein:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...rom-obamacare/

    Back during the Affordable Care Act negotiations, Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) proposed an amendment forcing all members of Congress and all of their staffs to enter the exchanges. The purpose of the amendment was to embarrass the Democrats. But in a bit of jujitsu of which they were inordinately proud, Democrats instead embraced the amendment and added it to the law.
    Large employers — defined in the law as employers with more than 100 employees — aren’t allowed onto the insurance exchanges until 2017, and only then if a state makes an affirmative decision to let them in.

    But the federal government is the largest employer in the country. So Grassley’s amendment means that the largest employer in the country is required to put some of its employees — the ones working for Congress — on the exchanges. But the exchanges don’t have any procedures for handling premium contributions for large employers.
    So Obamacare excludes large employers from the insurance exchanges until 2017. Republicans wanted to shame Democrats about Congressional exemptions, so they proposed a law that mandated participating in these exchanges for Congress, which they thought would fail. Democrats instead embraced it, and now because one law mandates Congress and it's staffers be part of the exchanges, while Obamacare forbids this till 2017, there is a window where these people are uninsured. They are simply trying to fix the loophole so the federal government can make it's payments to the exchanges to cover congressional employees.

    And the next article is worth reading too: Congress isn’t giving itself special treatment on Obamacare. It’s giving itself special punishment. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...al-punishment/


    That said, Congress might just have to tough this one out. A core part of the Republican strategy on Obamacare — which is notably different than how Democrats treated Medicare Part D — is to try to botch implementation by holding up the funds needed to make it work, fighting the health plan in the states and refusing to pass legislation fixing whatever drafting problems or real-world issues present themselves during the early days of the law.

    “The Speaker would like to see resolution of this problem, along with the other nightmares created by Washington Democrats’ health law, which is why he supports full repeal,” Michael Steel, spokesman for House Speaker John Boehner, e-mailed. “In the meantime, it is [the] Democrats’ problem to solve. He will not sneak any language into bills to solve it for them – and the Democratic leadership knows that.”

    In a literal sense, it’s the speaker’s problem, too: He and his staff will also be left holding the bag for their own insurance costs. But the reason this is a real problem rather than an easily fixable mistake is that Republicans don’t want to fix any problems in the law. They want to make it work as badly as possible so they have more leverage to repeal it, or at least to run against it in 2014. They want to burn down the health-care system to save it. But this time, their own insurance is going to get caught in the blaze.
    So Jack and Chance, what do you say about this?

  13. #13

    Re: Congressional Democrats & Their Aides Run From ObamaCare

    ^^

    I think you need to read the Politico article again.

    Reading the first WP article you quote -- Congressional dem's do want to opt out of ObamaCare and still with their current cadillac health care program.

    The WP article backs up the Politico article - the writer just spins it to make it look like it doesn't.

  14. #14
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    Re: Congressional Democrats & Their Aides Run From ObamaCare

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    ^^

    I think you need to read the Politico article again.

    Reading the first WP article you quote -- Congressional dem's do want to opt out of ObamaCare and still with their current cadillac health care program.

    The WP article backs up the Politico article - the writer just spins it to make it look like it doesn't.
    I still think you are wrong, but I admit I am often confused about US health-care. So let me break it down and you can tell me where I'm wrong.

    1. There is no public option in Obamacare, so all non-elderly have to purchase insurance on the private market, either for themselves or through their employer.

    2. Congress (+ aides) have a "cadillac health care program", purchased by their employer, the federal government (or a congressional agency?).

    3. Obamacare mandates that individuals who don't get health care insurance through their employer buy it in the exchanges.

    4. These exchanges are not open to "big employers" (more than 100 employees) until 2017, and even then only when the individual states allow each firm individually onto the exchanges.

    5. The federal government is the largest employer in the country, so it is barred from the exchanges until 2017.

    6. Senator Chuck Grassley proposed an amendment that would mandate Congress (+ aides) to buy their insurance through the exchanges. I quote part the text of the amendment:

    The only health plans that the Federal Government may make available to Members of Congress and congressional staff with respect to their service as a Member of Congress or congressional staff shall be health plans that are — (I) created under this Act (or an amendment made by this Act); or (II) offered through an Exchange established under this Act (or an amendment made by this Act).
    7. Big firms like JP Morgan offer their employees fantastic health care plans, effectively subsidizing them. They cannot participate in the exchanges until 2017, but even when they can participate they can continue to give their employees big contributions to their health plans, which these employees then use to buy their insurance.

    8. If members of Congress would be treated like everybody else who works at a big employer (like they do), they would not even be able to join the exchanges until 2017, and even then they would not be required to do so, their employer could try to join the exchanges but even that could be rejected by the states the exchanges are in.

    9. Because of the amendment by Chuck Grassley, Congress (+ aides) must join the exchanges created by Obamacare. But Obamacare explicitly outlaws big employers from participating until 2017, forcing Congress (+ aides) to join the exchanges as private persons. They cannot take with them their employer contribution like anybody else can do. Which is something even Chuck Grassley didn't want, I quote him here:

    “This amendment would require that, notwithstanding any other provision of law, beginning in 2013, Members of Congress and Congressional staff must use their employer contribution (adjusted for age rating) to purchase coverage through a state-based exchange, rather than using the traditional selection of plans offered through the Federal Employees Health Benefits Plan (FEHBP).”
    10. If the lawmakers want to be treated like any other US citizen, they would take back the mandate to join the exchanges and instead could try to join them 2017 like every other big employer can. Or they can give themselves the permission to take with them their employer contribution like any other US citizen who doesn't work for an employer with more than 100 employees can, in effect accelerating their participation in the Obamacare exchanges. Their status will be the same as every other employee of a big firm in 2017.

    11. So Congress doesn't want to exempt itself from Obamacare. It tries to fix an unintended consequence created by a badly crafted amendment that both sides wanted to use to score political points. They can be blamed for not really understanding what they passed into law with the amendment, but there is nothing wrong with trying to fix it.


    12. Congress has a fantastic health-care plan that many Americans would like to have, but that is completely independent of Obamacare. Obamacare does not affect similar generous health-care plans of big firms in the private sector (could you imagine the outrage if they tried to do that?), so you can only attack Congress for it's generous benefits package, but again this is independent of Obamacare.

    Am I wrong somewhere?

    And lastly, if there is one benefit that members of Congress should have, then it would be good health-care. This doesn't necessarily affect their staff, but a sick Congressman cannot represent his constituents. And because of the special nature of their job they can have no deputy, so for example congressional districts with a sick congressman have effectively no representation, which is frankly intolerable. Better cut their pay than tinker with their health-insurance.

  15. #15

    Re: Congressional Democrats & Their Aides Run From ObamaCare

    ^^

    I just saw an article where the dem's are saying they do not want to opt out of ObamaCare and that there were not any discussions about wanting to opt out.

    ... and so goes politics.

    ObamaCare is a big mess and will continue to confuse, cost, and change the way Americans get health care ... and not in a good way. If only Pelosi would have taken the time to find out what was in it before she passed it.

    Congress should not get special health insurance -- they need to be on the same level as the rest of us.

  16. #16
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    Re: Congressional Democrats & Their Aides Run From ObamaCare

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    ^^

    I just saw an article where the dem's are saying they do not want to opt out of ObamaCare and that there were not any discussions about wanting to opt out.

    ... and so goes politics.

    ObamaCare is a big mess and will continue to confuse, cost, and change the way Americans get health care ... and not in a good way. If only Pelosi would have taken the time to find out what was in it before she passed it.

    Congress should not get special health insurance -- they need to be on the same level as the rest of us.
    Nice way to not address my points. You maintain that Obamacare is bad (which I agree but for different reasons than you), and that the Democrats are hypocrites for trying to exempt themselves from it. This is wrong, here Commentary Magazine, a big enemy of Obamacare:

    Last night, Politico published what seemed like quite the scoop: members of Congress from both parties were holding secret negotiations with the aim of passing legislation that would exempt their staffers from unwieldy ObamaCare rules. The backlash was immediate, and virtually guaranteed that whether or not the Politico story got it right (it didn’t), it would at least have the effect of snuffing out whatever legislation was being contemplated.(emphasis mine)
    So nobody is running from Obamacare.

    You are also against members of Congress and their aides getting cheap and good health insurance, but seeing as they are at the very top of the federal hierarchy, they should be compared with their peers in the private sector, presidents, executives and board members of big business like banks. Do you really think Congress has better health care than these people? They are on the same level as the rest of you.

    Edit: Sorry, I am not sure if I understand you correctly, perhaps you are saying you agree with me in your first two sentences. If so I take back my first three paragraphs.
    Last edited by Tengilethos; April 27th, 2013 at 02:14 AM.

  17. #17
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    Re: Congressional Democrats & Their Aides Run From ObamaCare

    Hopefully one day, the US will finally figure out how to get affordable, universal healthcare coverage without the private insurance industry raping the taxpayer and consumer in order to just piss all the money away.

  18. #18

    Re: Congressional Democrats & Their Aides Run From ObamaCare

    Quote Originally Posted by Tengilethos View Post
    Nice way to not address my points. You maintain that Obamacare is bad (which I agree but for different reasons than you), and that the Democrats are hypocrites for trying to exempt themselves from it. This is wrong, here Commentary Magazine, a big enemy of Obamacare:



    So nobody is running from Obamacare.

    You are also against members of Congress and their aides getting cheap and good health insurance, but seeing as they are at the very top of the federal hierarchy, they should be compared with their peers in the private sector, presidents, executives and board members of big business like banks. Do you really think Congress has better health care than these people? They are on the same level as the rest of you.

    Edit: Sorry, I am not sure if I understand you correctly, perhaps you are saying you agree with me in your first two sentences. If so I take back my first three paragraphs.
    Congress and their staff should not get special insurance -- they should experience the same hassles as we do in obtaining insurance -- they need to experience some empathy.

  19. #19

    Re: Congressional Democrats & Their Aides Run From ObamaCare

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    Hopefully one day, the US will finally figure out how to get affordable, universal healthcare coverage without the private insurance industry raping the taxpayer and consumer in order to just piss all the money away.
    President Obama tried to do exactly that but republican congressmen, flush with bribes from the health insurance companies, made a mess of things. Remember the shouting at the "town hall" meetings? Insurance companies bussed in the uneducated and ignorant pubic to shout down anyone who tried to discuss the Affordable Health Care Act.

    Protect the profits for the CEOs and stockholders at the expense of the American public, thanks to republicans.

  20. #20

    Re: Congressional Democrats & Their Aides Run From ObamaCare

    ^^

    You forget. Obama had his secret meeting with the insurance companies before ObamaCare. We don't know what was discussed or agreed to in those meetings. However, we do know that the insurance companies were very quiet afterwards -- no opposition to ObamaCare.

  21. #21
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    Re: Congressional Democrats & Their Aides Run From ObamaCare

    If Congress+ their aides keep their "cadillac plan" will they have to pay the 40% excise tax starting in 2018?
    Any healthcare plan considered a "cadillac plan" provided by the employer as part of their salary will be taxed at 40%, It will be considered as (untaxed income)
    It has alreadybeen listed on your w-2 form, but not taxed -"yet"

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