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  1. #51
    Elderhostile Gay Dejavudoo's Avatar
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    Re: Would you remain friends with someone who is against homosexuality?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeicsDom View Post
    I don't DISLIKE them. They are just of no consequence to me. A friend is someone who accepts you for who you are and is supportive of you. If someone disapproves of a part of you that is such a major component as your sexuality then they cannot be your friend. An aquaintance, maybe, but never a friend.
    As much as I believe you DO dislike them, I can't really assert that, nor do I need to, as I don't know you nor have a reason to speak for you.

    And that brings me to my original assertion: YOU do not have responsibility nor proxy to SAY what another man can do by way of his friendships. I will apologize for the comparison to a flaw, but we CAN and DO befriend alcoholics, and we don't endorse substance abuse at all.

    It's all well and good to ratchet up the definition of friendship to be this never-failing, walk-on-water, always-there sort of role, but friendship is really simple, and the dictionary.com entry captures it faithfully.


    friend

    noun
    1. a person attached to another by feelings of affection or personal regard.
    2. a person who gives assistance; patron; supporter: friends of the Boston Symphony.
    3. a person who is on good terms with another; a person who is not hostile: Who goes there? Friend or foe?
    4. a member of the same nation, party, etc.

    A friend can have affection but believe you married the wrong woman or man. That's a pretty significant disagreement if not disapproval. A friends can be on good terms with you about seeing movies together, or working at your local food bank together, but may not have anything in common politically. A friend may disagree with you on just about anything, but unlike JUB, NOT be hostile to you because of it.

    The posters in this thread who DO have friends outside your definition, or Rareboy's, anyone else's, are not 2nd class gays, are not desperate, and are worthy of respect. It is enough that gay men have an uphill struggle for respect and acceptance in the world. Do we constantly have to add to the problem by denigrating another man's definition of friendship? What on earth is wrong with just posting your own definition in contrast without imperiously ruling on another man's ability to choose his own friends? It just comes across as aggressive, arrogant, and pointless.
    Last edited by Dejavudoo; April 25th, 2013 at 06:02 PM.
    There are TWO kinds of people in the world -- the kind who believe there are two kinds of people, and the kind who don't.

  2. #52

    Re: Would you remain friends with someone who is against homosexuality?

    Well, it would be really tough because with close friends you really talk with them about pretty much everything. I don't think I would be able to avoid talking about what I'm feeling towards my boyfriend with a non-accepting friend. Heck, with my friends I can talk about pretty much everything sexual and they stay cool with it. Friends accept you the way you are and if they don't accept you then they are not your friends.

    However, sometimes people change their point of view towards homosexuality when they have someone really close to them that is gay so there's still a chance.
    He sounds to me, he sounds like sex on the radio.

  3. #53
    JUB Addict DigitalFudge's Avatar
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    Re: Would you remain friends with someone who is against homosexuality?

    Quote Originally Posted by Seduce View Post
    Well, it would be really tough because with close friends you really talk with them about pretty much everything. I don't think I would be able to avoid talking about what I'm feeling towards my boyfriend with a non-accepting friend. Heck, with my friends I can talk about pretty much everything sexual and they stay cool with it. Friends accept you the way you are and if they don't accept you then they are not your friends.

    However, sometimes people change their point of view towards homosexuality when they have someone really close to them that is gay so there's still a chance.

    I'm here for all of this ^^^

  4. #54
    JockBoy87
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    Re: Would you remain friends with someone who is against homosexuality?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dejavudoo View Post
    A friend may disagree with you on just about anything, but unlike JUB, NOT be hostile to you because of it.
    A friend does not hate you for your traits, and if that person does not know you are gay, then it isn't you whom your "friend" likes.

  5. #55
    Sex God pills's Avatar
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    Re: Would you remain friends with someone who is against homosexuality?

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    Strange question certainly.

    By simple logic, if someone fundamentally disapproves of you, you aren't friends anyway.
    Your response is not logical. Who said "fundamentally disapproves" anywhere?
    Nothing is like anything else. Things are themselves entirely and do not need interpretation, only a minimal respect for their precise integrity.

  6. #56
    CupidBoy
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    Re: Would you remain friends with someone who is against homosexuality?

    Quote Originally Posted by pills View Post
    Your response is not logical. Who said "fundamentally disapproves" anywhere?
    He just doesn't like me so he takes every opportunity to be rude. I thought putting him on ignore would make him leave me alone, but I guess not.

  7. #57
    Come again? dereperez's Avatar
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    Re: Would you remain friends with someone who is against homosexuality?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dejavudoo View Post
    LeicsDom, we gather that YOU dislike those who don't approve of homosexuality, but who are you to define other people's friendships and definitions? It's not some fine art, defining friendship. A mentally challenged person is nonetheless competent to define whom he sees as his friends, and no one has better insight into his heart than he does.

    This isn't an abstract debate. These are human beings, living in society, with tangible humans as friends. That's it. That's all there is to it. We don't get to argue them off their perspective and negate their social circles.

    To Jason's question, absolutely yes. Many of my friends are more conservative politically, socially, militarily and culturally than I am. When I befriend a person, I'm not looking for a person to be a model of what I want to be, or what I want society to be. I've had friends who are homeless, jobless, tasteless, witless, snobs, racist, socialist, naturalist, abusers, users, drinkers, tea-totalers, gay, straight, bisexual, young, old, right-brained, left-brained, Democrat, Republican, Tea Party, Green Party, Catholic, Rastafarian, atheist, Buddhist, Muslim, Baptist, and the list goes on.

    I befriend those people who are friendly. Many people do not expect their friends to be "qualified for the job." The role of a friend is to be your friend, not understand your artistic ability, not share your political or religious views, not align with your standards of personal hygiene or housekeeping, not approve of your love-style, and not have everything in common.

    The need to ostracize those who are unlike us is as great a problem as bigotry, if not the same thing. Our world is full of us-vs.-them thinking. Let's stop doing that.
    ^This. You basically stated everything I wanted to say.

    This is a tough question though. I probably wouldn't end up being close friends with someone that was against homosexuality or bisexuality, but that doesn't mean we couldn't accept each other as what and who we are. I don't believe that friends have to share every core value or belief. A few of my friends don't believe that the homosexual lifestyle is the "right" lifestyle but we always get along great anyway...it's just hardly a topic we broach. If the topic is brought up, we just agree to disagree. No harsh feelings there...as there doesn't have to be. We accept the differences and move on.

  8. #58

    Re: Would you remain friends with someone who is against homosexuality?

    Have actually had a lot of friends, straight guys, of course, who were EXTREMELY homophobic, but accepted ME, nevertheless.
    I, of course, tend to accept everyone for who they are, so problematic types are generally not an issue for me.
    Last edited by Nick4444; April 25th, 2013 at 08:24 PM.

  9. #59
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    Re: Would you remain friends with someone who is against homosexuality?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dejavudoo View Post
    To Jason's question, absolutely yes. Many of my friends are more conservative politically, socially, militarily and culturally than I am. When I befriend a person, I'm not looking for a person to be a model of what I want to be, or what I want society to be. I've had friends who are homeless, jobless, tasteless, witless, snobs, racist, socialist, naturalist, abusers, users, drinkers, tea-totalers, gay, straight, bisexual, young, old, right-brained, left-brained, Democrat, Republican, Tea Party, Green Party, Catholic, Rastafarian, atheist, Buddhist, Muslim, Baptist, and the list goes on.

    I befriend those people who are friendly. Many people do not expect their friends to be "qualified for the job." The role of a friend is to be your friend, not understand your artistic ability, not share your political or religious views, not align with your standards of personal hygiene or housekeeping, not approve of your love-style, and not have everything in common.

    The need to ostracize those who are unlike us is as great a problem as bigotry, if not the same thing. Our world is full of us-vs.-them thinking. Let's stop doing that.
    I simply do not understand this kind of thinking. No, I don't have to agree 100% with everything my friends do or think; I do, however, expect tolerance and acceptance of me simultaneous to my tolerance and acceptance of them. It has to go both ways.

    Someone's hostility toward me or toward a major component of my life need not be answered with hostility, but neither should it be accepted as "oh, that's just his way." One does not accept hostility from others and answer it with friendship, unless there is a reasonable belief that the hostility will abate under such treatment.

    It's pure masochism to surround yourself with people who are hostile toward you. OK, sometimes you get someone who disapproves of homosexuality, or who believes that homosexuality is sinful; if they are willing to accept that I believe differently, and do not put themselves out to hurt me because of their beliefs, I can certainly be friends with them; but if such persons will not accept me as I am, then I see absolutely no reason to accept them as they are.

    To not tolerate bigots does not make one an intolerant bigot. A bigot is someone who is hostile toward people for some preconceived idea about those people, rather than because of something an individual did to him; but someone who is indifferent, or even hostile, toward an individual or force (or individual allied with a force) which seeks to harm him is not, in turn, a bigot.

    Though you may have a certain definition of friendship, which happens to align with dictionary.com's definitions, I have an entirely different definition... and that was the question: could you be friends with someone who is against homosexuality. No, I could not. My definition of friendship resolves on reciprocation of regard. If you wish to surround yourself with people who hate you for who you are, rather than what you do, knock yourself out. But I don't think it's good for you.

    * Question the Dominant Paradigm *

  10. #60
    JUB Addict loveguys72's Avatar
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    Re: Would you remain friends with someone who is against homosexuality?

    It depends. Every friendship is different. There are things I talk about with some friends that I wouldn't with others, simply as a matter of what interests whom. As a general rule, your romantic relationships are rarely as interesting to others as they are to you.

  11. #61
    Come again? dereperez's Avatar
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    Re: Would you remain friends with someone who is against homosexuality?

    Quote Originally Posted by Swellegant View Post
    I simply do not understand this kind of thinking. No, I don't have to agree 100% with everything my friends do or think; I do, however, expect tolerance and acceptance of me simultaneous to my tolerance and acceptance of them. It has to go both ways.

    Someone's hostility toward me or toward a major component of my life need not be answered with hostility, but neither should it be accepted as "oh, that's just his way." One does not accept hostility from others and answer it with friendship, unless there is a reasonable belief that the hostility will abate under such treatment.

    It's pure masochism to surround yourself with people who are hostile toward you. OK, sometimes you get someone who disapproves of homosexuality, or who believes that homosexuality is sinful; if they are willing to accept that I believe differently, and do not put themselves out to hurt me because of their beliefs, I can certainly be friends with them; but if such persons will not accept me as I am, then I see absolutely no reason to accept them as they are.

    To not tolerate bigots does not make one an intolerant bigot. A bigot is someone who is hostile toward people for some preconceived idea about those people, rather than because of something an individual did to him; but someone who is indifferent, or even hostile, toward an individual or force (or individual allied with a force) which seeks to harm him is not, in turn, a bigot.

    Though you may have a certain definition of friendship, which happens to align with dictionary.com's definitions, I have an entirely different definition... and that was the question: could you be friends with someone who is against homosexuality. No, I could not. My definition of friendship resolves on reciprocation of regard. If you wish to surround yourself with people who hate you for who you are, rather than what you do, knock yourself out. But I don't think it's good for you.
    That's the point there. People can be "against homosexuality", but that doesn't necessarily make them hostile. Some can actually accept the differences.

    Hostility over belief differences is not worthy of friendship, but then that goes beyond sexuality.
    Last edited by dereperez; April 25th, 2013 at 08:55 PM.

  12. #62
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    Re: Would you remain friends with someone who is against homosexuality?

    Some Christians talk about this as loving the sinner in spite of the sin. In this case, the sin is not homosexuality, but bigotry.

    Is there something good about loving the bigot, in spite of their bigotry?

    Sure.

    But all bigotry is NOT the same. Some bigotry is gentle and dumb. Some bigotry hasn't ever thought about itself. Other bigotry is mean and strident. The worst bigotry is murderous or genocidal.

    I could easily be friendly with dumb bigots who haven't thought things through very well.

    Mean bigots take patience. Sometimes, I might be their friend.

    But no, I wouldn't be friends with a bigot who advocated bad things. I would only disagree with them.
    pro bonobo

  13. #63
    Elderhostile Gay Dejavudoo's Avatar
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    Re: Would you remain friends with someone who is against homosexuality?

    Quote Originally Posted by Swellegant View Post
    Though you may have a certain definition of friendship, which happens to align with dictionary.com's definitions, I have an entirely different definition... and that was the question: could you be friends with someone who is against homosexuality. No, I could not. My definition of friendship resolves on reciprocation of regard. If you wish to surround yourself with people who hate you for who you are, rather than what you do, knock yourself out.
    With respect, three things:

    My definition does not "happen to align" with the standard definitions. They are standard, and therefore I accept them. You have the prerogative of redefining friendship, but that doesn't make my use of a standard definition happenstance -- it makes it standard.

    To exaggerate acceptance of others in my circle of friends to "surround yourself" with those who (allegedly) "hate" me is pure hyperbole. I and multiple other members here have posted that we are not talking about some martyr complex or masochism, but simple acceptance of others. How that becomes retold as "surrounding" ourselves with hoards of haters is just a simple fiction to disparage our friendships.

    And finally, I don't advocate that others SHOULD be friends with those who are against homosexuality. I accept that decision just as I accept the people whom I disagree with. I don't even think it is bad for gay men to choose to reject those who reject homosexuality. But, I can't understand why those who do transcend differences in friendship should somehow be defective. That's just narrow.
    Last edited by Dejavudoo; April 25th, 2013 at 09:24 PM.
    There are TWO kinds of people in the world -- the kind who believe there are two kinds of people, and the kind who don't.

  14. #64
    JockBoy87
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    Re: Would you remain friends with someone who is against homosexuality?

    Quote Originally Posted by Swellegant View Post
    My definition of friendship resolves on reciprocation of regard. If you wish to surround yourself with people who hate you for who you are, rather than what you do, knock yourself out. But I don't think it's good for you.
    I'm with you 100% on that. Not only isn't it good for you, it isn't a friendship.

  15. #65
    TheSpectatingLoner
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    Re: Would you remain friends with someone who is against homosexuality?

    Quote Originally Posted by dereperez View Post
    This is a tough question though. I probably wouldn't end up being close friends with someone that was against homosexuality or bisexuality, but that doesn't mean we couldn't accept each other as what and who we are.
    Can someone against homosexuality accept a homosexual?

  16. #66
    Come again? dereperez's Avatar
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    Re: Would you remain friends with someone who is against homosexuality?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheSpectatingLoner View Post
    Can someone against homosexuality accept a homosexual?
    I can see where you may be coming from. But I have seen first hand how some of my "against" homosexual friends accept my bisexuality and non-straight tendencies. We may have different definitions of "against" though. Being against homosexuality to me is ...just not agreeing with it. To some others, it may mean actively and vocally fighting against it.

  17. #67
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    Re: Would you remain friends with someone who is against homosexuality?

    There is some of my friends,who are intelligent enough to "agree to disagree",and that has not been altered our friendship at all.They live,and let live.
    (\__/)
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  18. #68
    The old familiar sting blackbeltninja's Avatar
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    Re: Would you remain friends with someone who is against homosexuality?

    Wait.

    The anti crew, who say "no ways" - is every friend a BFF, or are they just people in your circle of friends who you might interact frequently enough that they're not simply an acquaintance?

    I don't think I could have homophobic BFF, but I'm sure plenty of people I see frequently socially are not 100% pro-gay.

    -d-
    Members: [insert appropriate/relevant wise saying or deep thought here]
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    I hope you get this message.
    Comments welcome.

  19. #69
    Is the King of JUB Beachguyj's Avatar
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    Re: Would you remain friends with someone who is against homosexuality?

    I can't imagine why they would want to be my friend.
    Never cease to find it strange
    How at midnight things seem hopeless
    But by dawn they've changed

  20. #70
    holeconfusion
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    Re: Would you remain friends with someone who is against homosexuality?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dejavudoo View Post
    With respect, three things:

    My definition does not "happen to align" with the standard definitions. They are standard, and therefore I accept them. You have the prerogative of redefining friendship, but that doesn't make my use of a standard definition happenstance -- it makes it standard.

    To exaggerate acceptance of others in my circle of friends to "surround yourself" with those who (allegedly) "hate" me is pure hyperbole. I and multiple other members here have posted that we are not talking about some martyr complex or masochism, but simple acceptance of others. How that becomes retold as "surrounding" ourselves with hoards of haters is just a simple fiction to disparage our friendships.

    And finally, I don't advocate that others SHOULD be friends with those who are against homosexuality. I accept that decision just as I accept the people whom I disagree with. I don't even think it is bad for gay men to choose to reject those who reject homosexuality. But, I can't understand why those who do transcend differences in friendship should somehow be defective. That's just narrow.
    I hope you stick around for years and years on this forum.
    Your logical analyses are superb and your writing is concise.

    Bravo.

  21. #71
    Lascivious Lush altlover85's Avatar
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    Re: Would you remain friends with someone who is against homosexuality?

    Quote Originally Posted by blackbeltninja View Post
    Wait.

    The anti crew, who say "no ways" - is every friend a BFF, or are they just people in your circle of friends who you might interact frequently enough that they're not simply an acquaintance?

    I don't think I could have homophobic BFF, but I'm sure plenty of people I see frequently socially are not 100% pro-gay.

    -d-
    You almost took the words out of my mouth.

    I think the definition of friend is a personal thing that could be different for different people. So, what you (general you, not anyone in particular) may consider a friend, I may not.

  22. #72
    JUB Addict Hellax24's Avatar
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    Re: Would you remain friends with someone who is against homosexuality?

    No. If they are against people being gay, against the LGBT community getting married, etc. When I was a teenagers and out in HS. I had a BFF named Lynette. We were inseparable I'd hang at her house watch"Beaches" a million times(Her Fav Movie). I would massage her away her cramps when it was that time of the month. The thing with her is that before meeting she decided to get religion and become Catholic. We had genuine affection and love for each other. However, her beliefs would come up and we would have an argument and then agree to disagree. One argument was a knock down drag out fight in McDonalds. It was not pretty, it started because I wanted to take a guy to prom and she was giving me reasons as to why the wasn't gonna happen.

    Ultimately, she had a transgendered friend who told her I was taking shit about here behind her back and that caused a rift that was never mended. She moved away and we never connected again. At 15, I rationalized being friends with people who thought my being gay was not natural and went with it. I learned that people who say the are your friend and yet find it disgusting , is in fact saying I am. If you cannot be truly accepted by your friends and family...ALL of you then it's not a healthy relationship and accepting there treatment of you as lesser then they are and not right, then for me it's time to let you go and do your thing somewhere else and not around me.

    It's a hard lesson and it's tough, but you have to respect yourself and someone saying the love you , but how can you be gay? Dude, that's disgusting , but I don't judge. When they are judging.


    Now, I have no time for them. I do not want them over my house, at my table, hanging out in the club. NOTHING. I an do bad all by myself.


    For Your Consideration.

    Found on Jerry Mahoney's blog Mommy Man -Adventures of a Gay Super Dad.



    I wonít be your gay friend ifÖ

    - Youíll let me cater your wedding but not have one of my own.

    - You donít think I should be able to adopt children because I might be ďattractedĒ to them.

    - You think merely saying you love everyone is equivalent to actually demonstrating that love.

    - You use your religion both as a basis to attack me and as a shield to defend yourself from my rebuttal.

    - You would treat your gay child with anything less than complete acceptance, unconditional love and a raging desire to kick the ass of anyone who made life hard for them.

    - You joke in some movie that electric cars are ďgayĒ and expect me to laugh.

    - You still wish Will & Grace had hooked up at the end.

    If any of those apply to you, thatís fine. You have every right to be exactly as horrible and wrong-headed as you want to be. As I said, though, donít expect me to be your gay friend.

    Now that thatís out of the way, Iíd like to address those people who actually are my friends, because clearly weíre giving those other guys the wrong impression.

    So hereís what I propose:

    If you see Kirk Cameron, Sarah Palin or any other blatant homophobe, donít be nice to them. It confuses them.

    Donít shake their hand. Donít style their hair or do their interior design or perform ďRentĒ for them. And for the love of God, donít play your 1970s classic rock hits at their wedding, Elton.

    Just cut them off and say, ďSorry, I only do that for friends.Ē

    Itís not polite and itís not subtle, but Iím afraid itís the best course of action from here on out. Sometimes the only way to get through to these people is to be a complete douchebag.

    You know, like them.


    CXXX
    http://www.justusboys.com/forum/signaturepics/sigpic308529_2.gif

  23. #73
    holeconfusion
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    Re: Would you remain friends with someone who is against homosexuality?

    http://imgur.com/bWJCgO0

    A real best friend will make your family question your sexuality.

    Of course the boner doesn't help...

  24. #74
    TheSpectatingLoner
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    Re: Would you remain friends with someone who is against homosexuality?

    Quote Originally Posted by blackbeltninja View Post
    Wait.

    The anti crew, who say "no ways" - is every friend a BFF, or are they just people in your circle of friends who you might interact frequently enough that they're not simply an acquaintance?

    I don't think I could have homophobic BFF, but I'm sure plenty of people I see frequently socially are not 100% pro-gay.

    -d-
    I'm defining friend as someone I call up and talk to, someone I choose to stir round myself with. I have a lot of them and if any of them threw shade at me or anyone else for being gay, the calls would stop coming and stop being answered.

  25. #75
    The Baroness of Bling
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    Re: Would you remain friends with someone who is against homosexuality?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dejavudoo View Post
    With respect, three things:

    My definition does not "happen to align" with the standard definitions. They are standard, and therefore I accept them. You have the prerogative of redefining friendship, but that doesn't make my use of a standard definition happenstance -- it makes it standard.

    To exaggerate acceptance of others in my circle of friends to "surround yourself" with those who (allegedly) "hate" me is pure hyperbole. I and multiple other members here have posted that we are not talking about some martyr complex or masochism, but simple acceptance of others. How that becomes retold as "surrounding" ourselves with hoards of haters is just a simple fiction to disparage our friendships.

    And finally, I don't advocate that others SHOULD be friends with those who are against homosexuality. I accept that decision just as I accept the people whom I disagree with. I don't even think it is bad for gay men to choose to reject those who reject homosexuality. But, I can't understand why those who do transcend differences in friendship should somehow be defective. That's just narrow.
    So basically we disagree on definitions. I define friendship (which, being an interpersonal construct, is peculiarly open to personal definition) as a state of mutual esteem and benefit, consciously chosen by both individuals, not merely of mutual recognition and proximity.

    There are people I would define with the word "friend" in the title, such as work-friends or school-friends or Facebook-friends, who I do not count as actual friends, people with whom I do not share the emotional bond of true friendship. They're just people I know in a particular place who, when I leave that particular place, I will not keep in touch. And as such, I don't really care about their beliefs (unless they're particularly vocal about them).

    Like the definition of love, the definition of friendship has degrees. You love an actor or musician in an entirely different way than you love your boyfriend, which in turn is entirely different from the way you love your mother. If you're counting everyone you know as a friend, then of course you're going to come up with a much more open and egalitarian set of rules to govern how you react to their behavior, just as your reactions to the actor's or musician's behavior will be considerably less emotional than your reactions to your boyfriend's behavior.

    I further define being "against" something as hostility--I can't imagine anything I would consider myself "against" that I am not hostile toward. I disapprove of things (like socks with sandals) or am annoyed by things (like reproducing facile definitions of complex ideas), and can certainly overlook minor or personal-preference differences in terms of friendship; but something I am against would have to be something that I believe is bad (like hurting other people). It follows that someone who embraces or exemplifies something I believe is bad would have to be considered a bad person--not in toto, there's no such thing as a purely evil person, but for purposes of friendship.

    Finally, a great deal of the hostility you're perceiving toward your stance is not based solely in your own words: many points of this conversation have come up before, and certain patterns developed in those conversations that put people's backs up when they hear something similar. The debate has been going on for a long time, and lines were drawn in the sand before you arrived here. And anything that smacks of self-loathing or internalized homophobia is like a red cape waving around in front of a bull. Anything that sounds like giving people permission to think you're a bad person will sound, to many of us, like you share the belief that you're a bad person.

    I am peculiarly liable to this, I find. The merest implication that anyone has the right to think ill of me for my sexuality instantly sends my blood-pressure through the roof. Whether or not some random anonymous person thinks ill of me for being gay isn't really of interest, I can't control that and I don't want to; but someone defending that person will automatically piss me off. I'm not Jesus, nor even one of his followers: I do not turn the other cheek.
    Last edited by Swellegant; April 26th, 2013 at 08:28 AM.

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  26. #76
    JockBoy87
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    Re: Would you remain friends with someone who is against homosexuality?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dejavudoo View Post
    the dictionary.com entry captures it faithfully.
    English has no prescriptive authority. Definitions are made by consensus.

    If the consensus is that a friend does not reject what you are, then someone who is against homosexuality is not your friend.

  27. #77
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    Re: Would you remain friends with someone who is against homosexuality?

    On the other hand, just because someone is gay or gay-friendly is not grounds for friendship, either.
    Everyone wants to be heard. No one wants to listen.

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    Re: Would you remain friends with someone who is against homosexuality?

    I had someone who told me a few weeks ago that I couldn't be friends with anyone straight. This was just in a casual conversation with someone I was barely acquainted with, so... I said my friends are awesome and it doesn't matter who's gay or straight and called it a night
    Author of Lost in a Dream. If you want to make me smile, read it and tell me what you think.

  29. #79
    para0402
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    Re: Would you remain friends with someone who is against homosexuality?

    I wouldn't really mind them. If they're not particularly verbal about the issue, I'm fine with it. But I try to tolerate them, even if they judge me and all, I would still TRY to be nice. But of course, it's not going to be easy or last very long.

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    Re: Would you remain friends with someone who is against homosexuality?

    Absolutely not. There are too many people that could be in my life for me to allow someone in that disapproves of such a fundamental aspect of who I am.


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    Re: Would you remain friends with someone who is against homosexuality?

    Good Thread!

    My opinion, which isn't written in concrete, keeps wavering from one side to another depending on the eloquence and logic of some different posters's points of view.
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  32. #82
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    Re: Would you remain friends with someone who is against homosexuality?

    No, maybe. I've been in academia from the get-go, and around the excessively liberal (Cheering for Palestinian statehood? Please). I haven't been in a position where I would have a homophobic friend. I live downtown Toronto, not small town Montana. I am surrounded by secular humanists and atheists, mostly to the point I've grown intolerant of the religious.

    My best friend, however, is a country-boy-tradesman and we have nothing in common aside from personality quirks. I wouldn't have met him if I didn't work with his girlfriend (now fiancee, yay how time flies) while I was in high school. He's accepting since his aunt is a lesbian, and doesn't care where my penis goes...he would just prefer to not talk about it.
    blacksyringe

  33. #83
    The old familiar sting blackbeltninja's Avatar
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    Re: Would you remain friends with someone who is against homosexuality?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheSpectatingLoner View Post
    I'm defining friend as someone I call up and talk to, someone I choose to stir round myself with. I have a lot of them and if any of them threw shade at me or anyone else for being gay, the calls would stop coming and stop being answered.
    When I came out in September 2011, my most religious friend, the grandson of a Baptist minister, said to me "you know I don't agree with it on religious grounds, and it's not the path I'd have chosen for you or anyone if it were up to me. But I also know that it's a part of you which you can't change, and I'm not going to persecute you for that or try to make it any different. And it's not going to affect our friendship."

    Now, being all old and foreign and unhip and all, I'm not sure whether that is what you kids call "shade". He's nailed his colours to the mast, which I appreciate, and his position is crystal clear.

    So... a genuine question, not intended to bait and with no malice of forethought, to all of you: if you were in my position getting this from your friend, would you end the friendship? For the record, we didn't; nothing changed between us. I will also say I've never heard any anti-gay sentiment from him, nor anything derogatory about the gay guys in his social and work circles, either before or after I came out.

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  34. #84
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: Would you remain friends with someone who is against homosexuality?

    They have baptists in south africa?
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  35. #85
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    Re: Would you remain friends with someone who is against homosexuality?

    ^Granddad is a Scot, but my mate and his dad were born here in .za.

    But yes, we have Baptists.

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  36. #86
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    Re: Would you remain friends with someone who is against homosexuality?

    Quote Originally Posted by blackbeltninja View Post
    When I came out in September 2011, my most religious friend, the grandson of a Baptist minister, said to me "you know I don't agree with it on religious grounds, and it's not the path I'd have chosen for you or anyone if it were up to me. But I also know that it's a part of you which you can't change, and I'm not going to persecute you for that or try to make it any different. And it's not going to affect our friendship."

    Now, being all old and foreign and unhip and all, I'm not sure whether that is what you kids call "shade". He's nailed his colours to the mast, which I appreciate, and his position is crystal clear.

    So... a genuine question, not intended to bait and with no malice of forethought, to all of you: if you were in my position getting this from your friend, would you end the friendship? For the record, we didn't; nothing changed between us. I will also say I've never heard any anti-gay sentiment from him, nor anything derogatory about the gay guys in his social and work circles, either before or after I came out.

    -d-
    Mutual acceptance of difference: that's the point. You accept his religion that is different from yours and which you no doubt wouldn't have chosen for him; he returns the respect. He believes homosexuality is wrong, but he is also aware that he has no standing in the question and does not feel compelled to prove his belief by making someone else believe it, nor to enforce it on others.

    That said, I don't think I would be able to be friends with someone who adhered so closely to any religion's interpretation of scripture, or of reality. I find people who cling too closely to any religion's tenets are lacking something, if they require an irrational and miraculous construct on which to build their morality. I can be friendly with such a person, I can be civil to him, I might even enjoy his company; but I wouldn't consider him a friend. There would be things we couldn't discuss, and I feel very strongly that I should be able to discuss anything with my friends; there would be things in which we could not support each other, and mutual support is another very important facet of friendship to me.

    I have a problem with my grandmother's religious beliefs for exactly that reason: she thinks that the Bible is the one and only source of right and wrong, and that people who do not believe in her religion do not know right from wrong. She doesn't grasp that people can usually figure out right and wrong without revealed religion...usually faster than those with it. If you have to be enticed with heaven and threatened with hell to behave well, there's something fundamentally wrong with you. I am pretty sure that, had she not been raised with her religion, she'd be an even nicer person than she already is.

    But I give my grandmother a lot of latitude that I wouldn't give anyone else.

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  37. #87
    ForeverSingle+Unloveable 72-Jay's Avatar
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    Re: Would you remain friends with someone who is against homosexuality?

    Thats a tough question..I wouldn't automatically say "I won't stay friends". It would depend on the person & how homophobic they were & etc
    But I'd also say that it would make being friends more difficult.

  38. #88
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    Re: Would you remain friends with someone who is against homosexuality?

    Quote Originally Posted by Audio Tech View Post
    It's no skin off my back, but my "friends" who don't approve of homosexuality have simply removed themselves from my life.
    So that basically answers that question.
    I think this.

    If someone hates me for something and I find out about it, its very likely that I won't go around courting your approval. If I am wronged for something, expect hell from me.


  39. #89
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    Re: Would you remain friends with someone who is against homosexuality?

    Since I once was actively religious pentecostal,they are coming from there..at least couple of them woukld still get bullet instead of me,and I was able to shake at least some of their typical stereotypies about gays..."You?? manliest man of all!",I said,that we all,if almost none,would carry a pink purse.
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  40. #90

    Re: Would you remain friends with someone who is against homosexuality?

    It very may seem perverse, but dudes who are homophobic tend to turn me on as LONG as they are not too physically violent about it.

  41. #91
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    Re: Would you remain friends with someone who is against homosexuality?

    I think that it would all depend on the situation, I personally wouldn't be friends with anyone who would tell me that I'm going to hell, or that they think that I'm disgusting, they hate me etc. BUT I can see myself being friends with someone who isn't entirely comfortable with homosexuality.

    For instance, I am not an effeminate male so therefore people who just barely meet me will probably not know that I am gay. I won't lie if someone asks me but if it never comes up i could care less.

    Anyways one of my friends before he knew i was gay had been talking to me and the issue of gay rights came up. He said that he supports gay rights because he feels that everyone deserves the same rights regardless as to some peoples judgments. Right after that he admitted that gay guys kinda make him uncomfortable, and that he had also said that he was raised to believe that it is wrong but that he sees no logical reason for it and is trying to break the mindset and his instinct.

    He is a good guy and I got the impression that he had a few stereotypical notions in his head so I decided that i would have some fun with him. I decided to stay pretty ambiguous about my sexuality I never talked about guys or girls with him, but i continued to hang out with him.

    Eventually, one of our friends (who knows that i am gay) started inquiring about my then new boyfriend, but worded it like "how are things going with you and ________?" and my friend looked confused and i was like "Oh yeah thats my boyfriend" and he did a double take and was like "I didn't know that you were gay"

    We are still friends and i think that I managed to give him a very different perspective in the process. I still enjoy messing with him, he is not a very touchy feel-y person to begin with so i will try to hug him occasionally solely for the purpose of making him uncomfortable. In that sense Yes I would be friends with someone who is uncomfortable with it, but not someone who is actively against it.

  42. #92
    CupidBoy
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    Re: Would you remain friends with someone who is against homosexuality?

    Quote Originally Posted by ludolfo View Post
    It very may seem perverse, but dudes who are homophobic tend to turn me on as LONG as they are not too physically violent about it.
    Set them boundaries sis.


  43. #93
    holeconfusion
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    Re: Would you remain friends with someone who is against homosexuality?

    Friends are hard to keep over the long haul.

  44. #94
    Coward92
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    Re: Would you remain friends with someone who is against homosexuality?

    If they were open to remain friends, yes.
    Why? Because by allowing them to get to know me they get a chance to reconsider.
    They will be faced with the fact that I am just a a human like them, and if they still refuse to see, it is their willing blindness that causes all their problems.

    By acting as snob princesses we just further push ourselves to the outer reaches of society.

  45. #95
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    Re: Would you remain friends with someone who is against homosexuality?

    As was hinted at earlier in the thread, there is much hypocrisy in the supposed disdain for homosexuals by some members of the conservative side of society.

    Years ago, I had a neighbor, sometimes friend, who was a horrible racist. She blamed blacks and the Democratic Party for a list of ills and woes, and would work herself into a snit over it.

    One day and older black woman walked by on the sidewalk in front of my friend's home. Her little dogs went barking after the old woman. My friend was immediately apologetic and went to pains to explain that her dogs wouldn't bite and she called them back.

    After the woman was out of earshot, I asked my friend, "Sandra, why didn't you sick the dogs on her? You SAY you hate black people."

    As it was, she said things she didn't really believe, and her actions proved it.

    Presumed haters and homophobes are often that way. They voice disapproval, but in time, our humanity and our likeability prove corrupting, and our friendship is undeniable. That is an awesome force for change, and doesn't require a martyr complex, just integrity and desire to see another grow as much as we want to see ourselves grow.
    There are TWO kinds of people in the world -- the kind who believe there are two kinds of people, and the kind who don't.

  46. #96
    TheSpectatingLoner
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    Re: Would you remain friends with someone who is against homosexuality?

    Quote Originally Posted by blackbeltninja View Post
    When I came out in September 2011, my most religious friend, the grandson of a Baptist minister, said to me "you know I don't agree with it on religious grounds, and it's not the path I'd have chosen for you or anyone if it were up to me. But I also know that it's a part of you which you can't change, and I'm not going to persecute you for that or try to make it any different. And it's not going to affect our friendship."
    I wouldn't be his friend after talking to me that way.

    I can deal with family. Family you can not choose.

    But his attitude is a type of negativity that I eliminate from my life if and when I can.

    I had someone say something similar to me when I came out. My desire to be around her gradually declined and I never call or visit her when I'm in town.

    Someone who sees my sexuality as a handicap, a disfigurement that I'm dealing with and then lets me know that they're "okay" with it anyway, since it can't be changed can pretty much kiss my ass.

    I guess I am blessed to have so much love and support that I don't have to deal with those kind of attitudes--I can meet other folks.
    Last edited by TheSpectatingLoner; April 27th, 2013 at 07:04 AM.

  47. #97
    Coward92
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    Re: Would you remain friends with someone who is against homosexuality?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheSpectatingLoner View Post
    I wouldn't be his friend after talking to me that way.

    I can deal with family. Family you can not choose.

    But his attitude is a type of negativity that I eliminate from my life if and when I can.

    I had someone say something similar to me when I came out. My desire to be around her gradually declined and I never call or visit her when I'm in town.

    Someone who sees my sexuality as a handicap, a disfigurement that I'm dealing with and then lets me know that they're "okay" with it anyway, since it can't be changed can pretty much kiss my ass.

    I guess I am blessed to have so much love and support that I don't have to deal with those kind of attitudes--I can meet other folks.
    They are hadicapped sugar, they can't see how wrong they are. You must remain close to them and try to help them. It is often a hopeless battle, but amongst the depths of the mine you may find a gem or two.Those who decided never to see are hopeless, but there are people, worth spending time with.

  48. #98
    The old familiar sting blackbeltninja's Avatar
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    Re: Would you remain friends with someone who is against homosexuality?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheSpectatingLoner View Post
    I wouldn't be his friend after talking to me that way.

    I can deal with family. Family you can not choose.

    But his attitude is a type of negativity that I eliminate from my life if and when I can.

    I had someone say something similar to me when I came out. My desire to be around her gradually declined and I never call or visit her when I'm in town.

    Someone who sees my sexuality as a handicap, a disfigurement that I'm dealing with and then lets me know that they're "okay" with it anyway, since it can't be changed can pretty much kiss my ass.

    I guess I am blessed to have so much love and support that I don't have to deal with those kind of attitudes--I can meet other folks.
    I have had nothing but love and support from him; no "kind of attitude" whatsoever, nor what I would construe as negativity. He believes in his God and in heterosexuality exclusively; I believe in neither of things. And yet we make it work - he is one of my oldest and closest friends.

    I think sometimes our knee-jerk anti reaction to people who struggle with our sexuality over-simplifies the emotional processes which clash inside their heads. Sure, their are homophobes who are zealots in their quest to deny us equality; but there are also guys like this whose hearts and heads battle it out while they attempt to come to terms with it all. I personally opt to judge each of them as individuals on their merits rather than tar them all with the same "homophobe! Burn him!" brush, but I can see why some of you don't.

    Thanks for your honesty nonetheless; I appreciate it, much like I appreciated my friend's when I came out to him and he told me what I told you above - it's not easy for him, either.

    And welcome back.

    -d-
    Last edited by blackbeltninja; April 27th, 2013 at 08:09 AM.
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  49. #99
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    Re: Would you remain friends with someone who is against homosexuality?

    Jeeeeeez you guys seriously dragged this out long enough.. it's like you don't even read each other's posts or something.. one guy says 'I define friendship differently than you do' and another goes all 'your friendships are not real'.. freaking hell.. just accept it. some people define friends a certain way and others define friends in a different way. someone might define a friend as a person that accepts every tiny thing about them. another might define a friend as a person they can get along with but don't necessarily have to see eye to eye about EVERYTHING. it isn't up to any of you to define friendships for other people.. just. let. it. go. some people have friends who are not supportive of homosexuality. some people have no time for people like that. that's it. it's over. so let it go.

  50. #100
    TheSpectatingLoner
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    Re: Would you remain friends with someone who is against homosexuality?

    Quote Originally Posted by blackbeltninja View Post
    I have had nothing but love and support from him; no "kind of attitude" whatsoever, nor what I would construe as negativity. He believes in in heterosexuality exclusively
    For the record: That's what I would consider a negative attitude, and a lack of love. It's the part that I can't get by, and once its said, it becomes clear to me that I'll never be appreciated in a way I feel I need to be in order for a friendship to work.

    So in other words, I work with different criteria. Likely because I have pretty available sources for the criteria I need met.
    Last edited by TheSpectatingLoner; April 27th, 2013 at 08:56 AM.

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