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Thread: West, Texas...

  1. #101
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    Re: West, Texas...

    No no, leave it alone. It's just fine the way it is, re comment!
    BEWARE! Harassing the Indian may result in sudden and severe hair loss.

  2. #102
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    Re: West, Texas...

    Unfortunately, I followed every word that Cen Tex wrote. There were people lost in that blast that he had real connections to. His nephew's friends. People he knew from his position at work, some of these victims could have worked at the same store as him. Neighbors, friends of neighbors, friends of family. It hurts to see people that you have interacted with are gone. I hope that I speak for many when I say that our thoughts and prayers still go out to you and the residents of West and the surrounding area, the victims of this tragedy still need our thoughts and prayers. The victims of this tragedy were not just those who were lost in the explosion and fire, the victims are their families, friends, co-workers, students, Teachers, and every living creature affected by this tragedy.

    I also effects the First Responder community. The men and women that pride themselves on trying to help others now need help for themselves, they are wounded, wounds that you cannot see. These types of wounds take the highest toll. These wounds take the longest to heal. Like the first responder in the interview, who assumed the radio position realizing that all his superior officers were not coming out of that building. Knowing tat no one was coming out of that building. Brothers, and in that instant, they all were gone. He wasn't on that Fire Call. He and his wife were trying to evacuate people knowing that the fumes from the fire would harm people. His wife, a nurse immediately started helping victims and he returned to the scene of the explosion in hopes of helping survivors there, unfortunately, there were none to help.

    Many people are still dealing with this event, including Cen Tex. A few weeks does not heal an event like this, it takes a lot of time for these wounds to heal.

  3. #103
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    Re: West, Texas...

    I just hate having to post this. It looks to me that if House Bill 1714 is passed it ends a program at the Texas Commission on Environmental Quality (TCEQ) to inform the public as to which companies doing business in Texas do not have good environmental compliance records.
    So little time has passed from the disaster to when the GOP makes a bill like this. Texans HAVE to get the GOP out of Texas!
    Yes, chance1, this is a petition that I signed. Here is the link if you want to sign it.
    http://tlcv.e-actionmax.com/takeaction.asp?aaid=1624

    http://www.tlcv.org/news/
    Action Alert: Oppose House Bill 1714 by Wayne Smith

    House Bill 1714 by Wayne Smith ends a program at the Texas Commission on Environmental Quality (TCEQ) to inform the public as to which companies doing business in Texas do not have good environmental compliance records. The Texas Commission on Environmental Quality has for the last decade provided “compliance history” regulations that generate a score for each regulated facility in the state based generally on the number and severity of violations the facilities have faced through environmental enforcement actions. TCEQ uses these scores as a public “report card” for regulated entities, as well as in decisions regarding the issuance, renewal, amendment, modification, denial, suspension or revocation of permits, enforcement, the use of announced inspections, and participation in innovative or voluntary programs.
    BEWARE! Harassing the Indian may result in sudden and severe hair loss.

  4. #104
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    Re: West, Texas...

    ^ I signed.

    Some cities up in Dallas require that the last "health inspection" be posted in the window of local restaurants, so that those who are considering eating there will know what their risks are.

    TCEQ makes the information about these "fertilizer plants" open for public record, and this bill seeks to abolish that.

    WTF?

    And the GOP Controlled Texas Legislature, Governor, and their appointees, rather than showing any form of "leadership" on this issue just keep "passing the buck."

    What others say: Buck-passing in Texas

    Officials have yet to answer a lot of questions about the fertilizer plant explosion in West, Texas, but one answer — "It wasn't my job" — consistently emerges when local, state and federal officials are asked how their agencies might have intervened to prevent the disaster.
    Seems like it wasn't anyone's job to keep an eye on this, and further more one GOP Legislature wants to make it impossible for those living near these plants, and insurance companies from knowing any liabilities that they themselves are exposed to from even knowing the dangers.

    Who's being protected from potential harm here?
    Never regret anything, because in that moment it's exactly what you wanted.

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    Re: West, Texas...

    There didn't seem to be any compliance with existing law in the case of West. So, how will repealing an unenforced regulation make the situation worse?

    Just asking,,,,

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    Re: West, Texas...

    I took a break from the thread because of online convos and PMs. Tough going for too many people. Well I came back and reread cm98059 post ^^ and realized I don't think I ever told Centex that my thoughts and prayers are with him and the people of West. So now that is what I say.
    This is gonna take forever to get over and it will be brought back to us come election day and no telling when it will hit again.
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    Re: West, Texas...

    Quote Originally Posted by palbert View Post
    There didn't seem to be any compliance with existing law in the case of West. So, how will repealing an unenforced regulation make the situation worse?

    Just asking,,,,
    It seems kind of Queer that, in light of the unenforceable "regulation" that already seems to be on the books, that a Texas GOP Legislator wants to NOW make it more difficult for those living near 144 other identifiable "fertilizer plants" throughout Texas to know just HOW dangerous it is to live 'next too' one of them.

    And not just those owning property where Apartment Complexes, or Nursing Homes, or Schools are built, but also from the very Insurance Companies who do business within Texas to know what types of liabilities that they're against.

    I want to find out where this GOP Texas Legislator lives and make sure that he doesn't get re-elected as dog catcher within his own town.
    Never regret anything, because in that moment it's exactly what you wanted.

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    Re: West, Texas...

    GOP Texas House of Representatives Wayne Smith, Baytown, Texas.

    Google Baytown, Texas.

    You can bet your sweet ass that Rep. Smith has a financial contributor in Baytown, Texas that doesn't want his 'neighbors' to know how dangerous it is to live near his "job creating" fertilizer plant/storage facility.

    And this is how the GOP Controlled Texas Legislators responds after hours of committee hearings, and public testimony over the past couple of weeks, and was personally present for, for a couple of hours; 'it's okay to pass the buck.'

    P A T H E T I C.

    It doesn't matter.

    The people of West will re elect Bill Flores, even though he felt it more important to make a trip to Afghanistan the week of the explosion, instead of calling on Obama for Federal Assistance, so that he can blame Obama for what happened to them.

    Cynical?

    Not me.

    Most of the Republicans that I personally know, and who are my neighbors have told me, "The only reason we keep voting for most of them for public office, is so that we know where the sons-of-bitches are at all times."



    Never a truer answer given.
    Never regret anything, because in that moment it's exactly what you wanted.

  9. #109
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    Re: West, Texas...

    ^^Looking at Flores' link you gave us makes me think he is GOP. He is for Keystone and appears to be against Obama.
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    Re: West, Texas...

    I signed the petition too. Maybe some legislator will see a Washington address and consider that the actions of the house are seen outside the state, and may consider how this looks to others. We can only hope.

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    Re: West, Texas...

    @ CenTex & White Eagle:

    Something is amiss with this bill. If the house blocks these inspection records from being available to Insurance companies wouldn't the insurance companies want their own inspections? Insurance companies are for profit corporations in the United States. Historically, Insurance companies want to limit their exposure to Liability. Wouldn't the insurance companies want more stringent safeguards that further reduce their liability? Wouldn't the lack of these safeguards increase the premium the insurance companies charge for coverage, and wouldn't that charge be passed on to consumers, raising the cost of fertilizer and ultimately raising the cost of the crops produced? I see where this would adversely affect farmers and consumers. I have to wonder if this bill would put some farmers who are on the verge of bankruptcy out of business.

    So, who is going to headline Willy's next Farm Aid tour... Something isn't right in Austin. I don't have a good feeling about this.

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    Re: West, Texas...

    Texas has now launched a criminal investigation of the explosion.

    "This disaster has severely impacted the community of West, and we want to ensure that no stone goes unturned and that all the facts related to this incident are uncovered," DPS Director Steven McCraw said.
    http://news.yahoo.com/texas-launches...155018632.html

    No specific reasons were given.

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    Re: West, Texas...

    West paramedic arrested by feds for possession of an explosive device:

    DALLAS (Reuters) - A paramedic in West, Texas, has been arrested for possession of an explosive device, a federal official said on Friday, but it was not immediately clear whether there was a connection to a deadly explosion last month at a fertilizer plant in the town.
    The arrestee, Bryce Reed, was supposedly listening to music at the time of the explosion. He responded to the blast. His house was destroyed by the blast.

    http://news.yahoo.com/west-texas-par...145439395.html

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    Re: West, Texas...

    And the plot thickens...

  15. #115
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    Re: West, Texas...

    A firefighter might have these things in his possession and not attempting to make a bomb. At least we can let the scene play out and find whatever is the truth. If he was trying to make bombs then let him be tried as a terrorist. If not then lets not try him in the newspapers. Let's not jump to conclusions that are not fact.
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    Re: West, Texas...

    Quote Originally Posted by palbert View Post
    West paramedic arrested by feds for possession of an explosive device:

    The arrestee, Bryce Reed, was supposedly listening to music at the time of the explosion. He responded to the blast. His house was destroyed by the blast.

    http://news.yahoo.com/west-texas-par...145439395.html
    Weirdness.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: West, Texas...

    Quote Originally Posted by White Eagle View Post
    A firefighter might have these things in his possession and not attempting to make a bomb. At least we can let the scene play out and find whatever is the truth. If he was trying to make bombs then let him be tried as a terrorist. If not then lets not try him in the newspapers. Let's not jump to conclusions that are not fact.
    True. I know of a guy who compulsively makes IED components but almost never puts them together -- he's just fascinated by the whole improvised explosives thing and makes variation after variation. I think he worked with them once in some capacity but can't let go.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: West, Texas...

    It's the whole "grief thing."

    Seriously!

    A paramedic who responded.

    A guy who lost his best friend, his home, and his friends?

    Pull him aside for questioning.

    But blaming Bryce Reed?

    That dog don't hunt.
    Never regret anything, because in that moment it's exactly what you wanted.

  19. #119
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    Re: West, Texas...

    Quote Originally Posted by White Eagle View Post
    You made me think. Our ship channel has 10 miles of refineries along it. About half way down is a grain elevator. Not sure if it is still used for that, but I think that would be something to ask about.
    And Jack Springer, your post of "I suspect that there will be a call for new rules regarding hazardous plants in Texas and other states." Don't count on it in Texas. You must remember we have GOP in charge and they do not like rules.
    I was looking through the thread trying to find my place and ran across this post to Jack Springer.
    Y'all you need to look at my post #103, not just Jack, and see if I were correct in my above post. It doesn't take the GOP long until they show their ass.

    I just hate having to post this. It looks to me that if House Bill 1714 is passed it ends a program at the Texas Commission on Environmental Quality (TCEQ) to inform the public as to which companies doing business in Texas do not have good environmental compliance records.
    So little time has passed from the disaster to when the GOP makes a bill like this. Texans HAVE to get the GOP out of Texas!
    Yes, chance1, this is a petition that I signed. Here is the link if you want to sign it.
    http://tlcv.e-actionmax.com/takeaction.asp?aaid=1624

    http://www.tlcv.org/news/
    Action Alert: Oppose House Bill 1714 by Wayne Smith

    House Bill 1714 by Wayne Smith ends a program at the Texas Commission on Environmental Quality (TCEQ) to inform the public as to which companies doing business in Texas do not have good environmental compliance records. The Texas Commission on Environmental Quality has for the last decade provided “compliance history” regulations that generate a score for each regulated facility in the state based generally on the number and severity of violations the facilities have faced through environmental enforcement actions. TCEQ uses these scores as a public “report card” for regulated entities, as well as in decisions regarding the issuance, renewal, amendment, modification, denial, suspension or revocation of permits, enforcement, the use of announced inspections, and participation in innovative or voluntary programs.
    BEWARE! Harassing the Indian may result in sudden and severe hair loss.

  20. #120
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    Re: West, Texas...

    Quote Originally Posted by centexfarmer View Post
    It's the whole "grief thing."

    Seriously!

    A paramedic who responded.

    A guy who lost his best friend, his home, and his friends?

    Pull him aside for questioning.

    But blaming Bryce Reed?

    That dog don't hunt.
    So far as I know no one has blamed him yet.

    Your dog is bolting from the pack.

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    Re: West, Texas...

    I bet the FBI profilers are all over Mr. Reed. He is exhibiting some inexplicable behavior.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-...acing-charges/

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    Re: West, Texas...

    I happen to be a Linked In member myself, and everything in this CBS Story about Bryce Reed's profile is false. In fact, when I did a search for the name Bryce Reed, There were three in the DFW area, and the one that has the same face picture as the one in the CBS Article says nothing even close to what they are claiming. I don't know which Bryce Reed's profile they were looking at, but it was not any one of the three in the DFW area.

    There are many reasons that he would have the items mentioned in the story, including reloading is own shells for target practice, making homemade fireworks, stump removal, and a myriad of other reasons. A lighter in a canister could signal that the person having it may have a problem keeping his 4X4 out of the river. Wet lighters tend not to work well. So far all of this is circumstantial evidence, and in no way convicts anyone of anything.

    As for the removal from the fire department's roster, that does not necessarily mean anything either. There was mention in the story of him having stomach trouble, I know many departments that will remove members from their roster if they are going to be unable to respond to calls for a period of time for health reasons. Sometimes this is because the departments have a requirement of how many calls you need to respond to, or sometimes, it is because the fire fighter is experiencing a health problem that will be removing that person from the department permanently, like cancer, HIV, dismemberment, or health issues that will result in death.

    Simply put, there is not enough information in this story to convict Mr. Reed of anything except maybe of going through hell. I would need more evidence, and it would need to be substantiated evidence. Not a story from the news.

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    Re: West, Texas...

    cm98059
    Thank you for that informative post. Yes, we do need to wait to see what is going on.
    BEWARE! Harassing the Indian may result in sudden and severe hair loss.

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    Re: West, Texas...

    Just about any rural home in the US is likely to have "bomb-making materials". Digital clocks, bags of fertilizer, pieces of pipe, duct tape, wires.... or other items not so commonly recognized as useful for bombs.

    So far, there's nothing that looks like evidence, just another case of cops deciding to jump on someone to earn their points.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: West, Texas...

    The cause of the fire at the plant is "undetermined," but arson cannot be ruled out, according to officials.

    Investigators said the fire began in a fertilizer and seed building called the "seed room." The said the possible causes included arson, a failure of one of the two electrical systems and a compromised battery on a golf cart. They said they couldn't rule out the golf cart because it hadn't been fully recovered from the scene.
    http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...xplosions?lite

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    Re: West, Texas...

    It really is too early to rule anything out from Arson to Act of God. They can no more rule out arson at this stage as they can rule out a faulty Electrical System. Simply put, it is too early in the investigation to determine anything, but the media has to sensationalize anything, so they are going to emphasize the possible arson angle. The investigators have not recovered all of the evidence. I wish the media would let the investigation run its course, and stop trying to sensationalize this, I am sure the families would appreciate it too.

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    Re: West, Texas...

    ^ At least they're trying to find a cause (I guess). I remember the bombing of the Murrah Building in OK City in 1995, and they could NOT entirely destroy the crime scene and get rid of the debris and evidence quickly enough. Wasn't all the forensic evidence and everything else gone in three weeks or something? I have always smelled a conspiracy theory. (West may have been an accident, or maybe not, but I do believe some of the conspiracy theories we've heard in our lifetimes are, indeed, true.)
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    Re: West, Texas...

    The Federal Emergency Management Agency is refusing to provide additional money to help rebuild the small Texas town where a deadly fertilizer plant explosion leveled numerous homes and a school, and killed 15 people.
    According to a letter obtained by The Associated Press, FEMA said it reviewed the state's appeal to help but decided that the explosion "is not of the severity and magnitude that warrants a major disaster declaration."


    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...#ixzz2W4cFL31Q
    How sickening is that??
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    Re: West, Texas...

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    How sickening is that??
    It was pretty severe for the people there.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: West, Texas...

    Two things are coming into play here IMO.

    1) From all appearences,the causes of this blast were 100% the fault of man and thus FEMA is not going to give diaster aid for man made causes most of the time.
    2) Sad to say but this is where the chickens of Rick Perry,Ted Cruz and others are coming home to roost. FEMA was unlikely to give aid because of point 1 and the options of many Texas Republicans on FEMA and the federal government didn't help.

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    Re: West, Texas...

    I know that it is going to sound harsh coming from me, but I cannot fault FEMA for cutting off the funding. I am glad that FEMA helped out with the cleanup and debris removal. I am glad that the insurance is helping to cover the costs of rebuilding, but I think that the Fertilizer Company holds some financial responsibility here. I think that the State needs to contribute some to the rebuilding efforts as well. I would be willing to bet a quarter that the West Fertilizer Company is a wholly owned subsidiary of one of the major chemical companies. If this is the case, then they should be paying their share of the clean up and rebuilding costs.

  32. #132

    Re: West, Texas...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja108 View Post
    Two things are coming into play here IMO.

    1) From all appearences,the causes of this blast were 100% the fault of man and thus FEMA is not going to give diaster aid for man made causes most of the time.
    2) Sad to say but this is where the chickens of Rick Perry,Ted Cruz and others are coming home to roost. FEMA was unlikely to give aid because of point 1 and the options of many Texas Republicans on FEMA and the federal government didn't help.
    You're saying that FEMA is a political agency and that's perfectly OK to use it that way?

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    Re: West, Texas...

    I'm gonna agree with cm98059 and Ninja108. I went to the wiki site to see who owned the plant and found this that peaked my curiosity. The fertilizer plant was owned by Adair Grain, Inc. A search for Adair Grain found nothing. However, the name Adair sticks out. There was a Red Adair here in Texas that was a specialized oil firefighter. He has passed but fought the oil fires in Kuwait. That is just something that came to mind. I'm not saying he owned the plant as there is nothing about the owner.
    I cherry picked through the wiki site at this URL. These subjects are curious.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Fertilizer_Company

    --snip--

    According to a filing with the EPA in late 2012, the company stated that it stored 540,000 pounds (270 short tons; 240 t) of ammonium nitrate and 110,000 pounds (55 short tons; 50 t) of anhydrous ammonia on the site.[16] However, Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano told Senate investigators that the company hadn't disclosed its ammonium nitrate stock to her department. Federal law requires the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) to be notified whenever anyone has more than 1 ton of ammonium nitrate on hand, or 400 pounds if the ammonium nitrate is combined with combustible material.
    --snip--

    According to The Dallas Morning News, Texas law allows fertilizer plants to operate without any liability insurance at all, even when they have highly explosive chemicals.
    --snip--

    Governor Perry declared McLennan County a disaster area and on April 22 President Obama issued an Emergency Declaration, which gives the state aid with 75% federal funding.[49][50] On April 18, the Texas National Guard sent members of the 6th Civil Support Team to the area to test the air quality and assess chemical and biological hazards.[51]

    A study from The New York Times indicated that, "the last time the [Occupational Safety and Health Administration] inspected the plant was 28 years ago. In that inspection, dated Feb. 13, 1985, the agency found five 'serious' violations, including ones involving improper storage and handling of anhydrous ammonia and improper respiratory protection for workers. The agency imposed a $30 penalty on the company".[52]
    So Adair Grain Inc needs to come up with the $57 mil they are estimating to handle the rebuilding. I'm curious also about "state aid with 75% federal funding". How much and where was it sent to rebuild.
    The company was given plenty of time to correct the problems of 28 years ago.
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    Re: West, Texas...

    Be careful with your estimates. FEMA is still providing cash via loans for Homeowners to rebuild. FEMA should help the town rebuild with roads and the school.... then if their is culpability in the corporate world let the city, state and Fed crucify the company in court. Whereas they will promptly go bankrupt and pay little to nothing.

    FEMA should have not paid a dime to NYC in 9/11 using the man-made reasoning.
    Last edited by JayHawk; June 13th, 2013 at 07:51 AM.
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    Re: West, Texas...

    One could use different reasoning though Jayhawk. There's a difference between a terrorist attack and what looks like (for now) an explosion caused by a company looking to save some $$.

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    Re: West, Texas...

    Sure but the definition was man made. Should not government management services support all of the citizens regardless of cause? Did the children with no school have a part in the fertilizer plant? How about the folks with no more home?

    The reason that sort of funding exists is because otherwise we would simply have blighted half destroyed neighborhoods across America. Why is it ok because some guy was responsible instead of some God? Pullease.
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    Re: West, Texas...

    It might not be all right but that is the logic that will be used. That in this case it's the company and the state's responsblity,not the government.

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    Re: West, Texas...

    I freely spread the responsibility across federal, state, and local lines. All share a responsibility in this disaster, along with the fertilizer company. It has been a well known fact that fertilize can be used as an explosive since before the attack on the Murrah Building in Oklahoma City. Federal, State, and Local governments all could have created regulations that would have reduced the risk of this happening. Therefore, the all share the responsibility for the financial repercussions. The Chemical Engineers at the factory know what amounts of these chemicals can be stored safely, and those amounts were obviously exceeded. Therefore the Fertilizer Company shares in the responsibility. But I do not believe that one entity, like the federal Government, should shoulder the burden for reconstruction.

  39. #139
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    Re: West, Texas...

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    Be careful with your estimates. FEMA is still providing cash via loans for Homeowners to rebuild. FEMA should help the town rebuild with roads and the school.... then if their is culpability in the corporate world let the city, state and Fed crucify the company in court. Whereas they will promptly go bankrupt and pay little to nothing.

    FEMA should have not paid a dime to NYC in 9/11 using the man-made reasoning.
    You bringing up the roads and school, especially school, I am having to agree with this part. You're more than likely right that they weill go bankrupt.
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    Re: West, Texas...

    Quote Originally Posted by cm98059 View Post
    I freely spread the responsibility across federal, state, and local lines. All share a responsibility in this disaster, along with the fertilizer company. It has been a well known fact that fertilize can be used as an explosive since before the attack on the Murrah Building in Oklahoma City. Federal, State, and Local governments all could have created regulations that would have reduced the risk of this happening. Therefore, the all share the responsibility for the financial repercussions. The Chemical Engineers at the factory know what amounts of these chemicals can be stored safely, and those amounts were obviously exceeded. Therefore the Fertilizer Company shares in the responsibility. But I do not believe that one entity, like the federal Government, should shoulder the burden for reconstruction.
    You bring up an important angle. The Federal government OSHA and EPA cited these folks for not being up to code and then didnt check back with them to ensure compliance. That would indicate a Federal failure just as much as State, and City.
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    Re: West, Texas...

    Quote Originally Posted by cm98059 View Post
    I freely spread the responsibility across federal, state, and local lines. All share a responsibility in this disaster, along with the fertilizer company. It has been a well known fact that fertilize can be used as an explosive since before the attack on the Murrah Building in Oklahoma City. Federal, State, and Local governments all could have created regulations that would have reduced the risk of this happening. Therefore, the all share the responsibility for the financial repercussions. The Chemical Engineers at the factory know what amounts of these chemicals can be stored safely, and those amounts were obviously exceeded. Therefore the Fertilizer Company shares in the responsibility. But I do not believe that one entity, like the federal Government, should shoulder the burden for reconstruction.
    It was known well before you are talking about some of the general public knowing that anhydrous ammonia is extremely hazardous. It was no secret, just like a chlorine gas that could cloud a local area surrounding a pool supplies warehouse is lethal.
    Certainly no secret amongst those in the industry or government (local, state, or federal) how nasty this stuff is.

    But we are talking Texas which is more back ass backwards then the rednecks in Louisana (which sucks shit pretty bad) "give the petro/chemical industry any/every thing they want" and they have to give nothin' back other than some low wage benefit-less jobs.

    Accidents happen and there is no promise things would be better with a well trained professional paid agency, in this case something more then a volunteer fire dept in a tiny town which biggest threat usually is a hay barn fire or a drunk in a ditch. This area should have had aerial sirens and plans that the residents were aware of like they should be in case of a tornado. These plans should be rehearsed several times a yr at the cost directed to the company, a paid well equipped with modern haz-mat apparatus and professional skilled trained personnel available 24/7 with facilities to mobilize swiftly in the event of what could and did happen.

    But oh no there isn't a chance of this because that would cut into profits and no way the tax structure of the residents could afford such equipment to protect a corporate interest. So keep them dumb and stupid including the volunteer firemen. Bet on the fact nothing bad will ever happen and if it does oh well the company can file bankruptcy and tough luck suckers we will rebuild under a new company name in a new location in a bum fuck state.

    Texas got to keep those graveyard shift jobs growing at the Diamond Shamrock for clerks making $7.67 a hr scoring 11 K a yr (and thats too much income to get most medical assistance , or 20 bills a month food stamps). This is just how it is.
    OSHA on a federal level is very weak and like everything else manipulated by corporate interest that gain more footing every yr. Federal regulations and rules are even weaker in states like TX or Louisiana. The threat of much worse then West Texas is not unique to rural or small towns in TX though it could easily happen in Baltimore, Tampa, Wilmington NC or NJ and will however the response at least at this date and usually the known danger would be better responded to and the residents wouldn't bend over and grab their knees for a new big job factory without knowing whats going on inside.

  42. #142
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    Re: West, Texas...

    Vulgar, do you have personal experience with Texas or are you making generalizations? Because I can tell you from personal experience that I know of absolutely no stupid Volunteer Firefighters. I am also saying that regulations, enforcement, and responsibility belong to all of the entities, Corporate, Municipal, State, and Federal.

  43. #143
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    Re: West, Texas...

    It appears that West is suing the owner of the fertilizer plant. Good.
    "All legal U. S. residents who are 18 years or older, shall have an unconditional right to vote." - We need a 28th Amendment to the U. S. Constitution which resembles this...NOW!

    VOTING: Just remember: "Be careful of what you DON'T wish for. You might just get it." GET OUT AND VOTE for what you DO wish for.

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    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: West, Texas...

    Yes and the Federal Senate is looking into stiffer EPA regulations for how and where some things can be stored in light of the explosion in TX and LA.... hopefully that will bring something together that prevents these things from happening. It is hard to believe in a state that had the Galveston explosion they would not have made such laws previously.
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    Re: West, Texas...

    Quote Originally Posted by vulgar_newcomer View Post
    It was known well before you are talking about some of the general public knowing that anhydrous ammonia is extremely hazardous. It was no secret, just like a chlorine gas that could cloud a local area surrounding a pool supplies warehouse is lethal.
    Certainly no secret amongst those in the industry or government (local, state, or federal) how nasty this stuff is.

    But we are talking Texas which is more back ass backwards then the rednecks in Louisana (which sucks shit pretty bad) "give the petro/chemical industry any/every thing they want" and they have to give nothin' back other than some low wage benefit-less jobs.

    Accidents happen and there is no promise things would be better with a well trained professional paid agency, in this case something more then a volunteer fire dept in a tiny town which biggest threat usually is a hay barn fire or a drunk in a ditch. This area should have had aerial sirens and plans that the residents were aware of like they should be in case of a tornado. These plans should be rehearsed several times a yr at the cost directed to the company, a paid well equipped with modern haz-mat apparatus and professional skilled trained personnel available 24/7 with facilities to mobilize swiftly in the event of what could and did happen.

    But oh no there isn't a chance of this because that would cut into profits and no way the tax structure of the residents could afford such equipment to protect a corporate interest. So keep them dumb and stupid including the volunteer firemen. Bet on the fact nothing bad will ever happen and if it does oh well the company can file bankruptcy and tough luck suckers we will rebuild under a new company name in a new location in a bum fuck state.

    Texas got to keep those graveyard shift jobs growing at the Diamond Shamrock for clerks making $7.67 a hr scoring 11 K a yr (and thats too much income to get most medical assistance , or 20 bills a month food stamps). This is just how it is.
    OSHA on a federal level is very weak and like everything else manipulated by corporate interest that gain more footing every yr. Federal regulations and rules are even weaker in states like TX or Louisiana. The threat of much worse then West Texas is not unique to rural or small towns in TX though it could easily happen in Baltimore, Tampa, Wilmington NC or NJ and will however the response at least at this date and usually the known danger would be better responded to and the residents wouldn't bend over and grab their knees for a new big job factory without knowing whats going on inside.
    I mentioned in another thread somewhere that I used to get pissed off royally when someone bad mouthed Texas. Then I just realized it was the GOP that made Texas and Texans look that way. I am gonna get offended about this in red. Comparing Texas to Louisiana isn't fair to both states. You have to look at the GOP and what they have been doing in Texas and in DC. There is just nothing they can do right.
    And I'm gonna side with cm98059 about stupid Volunteer Firefighters. there is no such thing. These men and women know their business. I would trust any one of them to protect my family.
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  46. #146
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    Re: West, Texas...

    Quote Originally Posted by frankfrank View Post
    It appears that West is suing the owner of the fertilizer plant. Good.
    They should be sure to include the cost to the community of the loss of any economic benefits of having the plant.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

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  47. #147
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    Re: West, Texas...

    For a comprehensive - 7 pages - account of this disaster

    West, Texas: The Town That Blew Up

    There are several measures that would have prevented the explosion—or lessened its impact: if the building and the bins that held the fertilizer had been made of something less flammable than wood, if there had been a sprinkler system, if the silo had been vented, if there had been a blast wall around the plant, if schools and houses and apartments had not been built in its shadow, if the first responders who made up most of the casualties had kept their distance. None of those things were required by the regulatory standards and guidelines that govern the fertilizer business.
    http://www.businessweek.com/articles...hat-blew-up#p1
    July 3, 2013

  48. #148
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    Re: West, Texas...

    Thank you for the update. This is not gonna go away. I'll bet there are still things in the works about Texas City Tx Monsanto explosion.
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    Re: West, Texas...

    Ok, I must thank you again. When an article is this long, I practice my speed reading skills or just skip parts. I could NOT do it in this case. What a story he made.

    Here are 2 parts that stood out in my mind:

    http://www.businessweek.com/articles...hat-blew-up#p2

    Then there are retail plants. These are inspected far less frequently than production plants, and because they tend to be much smaller, fewer regulations apply. No one tracks the number of retail facilities in operation; the Fertilizer Institute, a trade group, estimates there are around 6,000 nationwide. Many are owned by the same multinational giants such as Agrium (AGU) or CF Industries (CF) that own production facilities. Others are family-run. West’s fertilizer plant was one of the latter. It’s been owned since 2004 by Adair Grain. Don and Wanda Adair are great-grandparents with a farm outside West. They are members of the West Church of Christ, and for years Wanda wrote a column for the local paper entitled “West Happenings.” (The Adairs declined multiple requests to be interviewed for this story.)
    The owners are identified. However once I got to the end of the article the people of West are not blaming the owners.They went to school with them and etc etc etc. All is understandable.

    Then there is this:

    http://www.businessweek.com/articles...hat-blew-up#p6

    There are several measures that would have prevented the explosion—or lessened its impact: if the building and the bins that held the fertilizer had been made of something less flammable than wood, if there had been a sprinkler system, if the silo had been vented, if there had been a blast wall around the plant, if schools and houses and apartments had not been built in its shadow, if the first responders who made up most of the casualties had kept their distance. None of those things were required by the regulatory standards and guidelines that govern the fertilizer business. On June 27, Rafael Moure-Eraso, chairman of the U.S. Chemical Safety Board, a federal agency investigating the blast, testified before the Senate. The investigation, he said, “has not identified any U.S. standards or guidance that prohibit or discourage many of the factors that likely contributed to the West disaster.” In other words, in all the ways the plant proved to be a perfect detonator, it was up to code. “It’s easy to say you’re not in violation of any regulations if you don’t have any regulations,” says Randell Roberts, one of the lawyers suing the plant.
    Now you see how the GOP likes no regulations. No one gets blamed.

    And, yes, the Texas City explosion of Monsanto gets a mention in this article.Worse disaster I believe it said.
    Last edited by White Eagle; July 8th, 2013 at 11:04 AM.
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    Re: West, Texas...

    Obama signs disaster declaration months after explosion devastates West, Texas

    The declaration, announced Friday (8/2/2013), means local government will be eligible to receive federal funding for a town that has vowed to do "whatever they have to do to rebuild."
    ....
    The announcement came one day after FEMA announced it would dedicate nearly $2.8 million to help the West Independent School District pay for temporary classrooms and other buildings to replace the high school, middle school, and intermediate school that were either destroyed or heavily damaged in the blast. Students from the town finished out the school year in makeshift facilities or in a nearby district.
    http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...est-texas?lite

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