West, Texas...

[CTF]

...a real town, and not a geographical region of Texas.

From the New York Times (so it must be real):

WEST, Tex. — Two days after the explosion at a fertilizer plant in this town sliced by a busy railroad and highway in Central Texas, the death toll rose to 14, but with the search of damaged structures nearly finished by Friday afternoon, only a few people were still presumed missing, local and county officials said.

The town of West, Texas is only a few short miles from my farm.

I do business there.

Members of my family have lost friends there this week.

In the midst of everything going on in Boston, and I have friends and loved ones there whom I personally care about, here in Central Texas we're shocked and devastated by the events that took place there this week, but we're just a little busy right now grieving.



I've been working in Dallas all week and wasn't here when this accident happened.

But I've been told that the shock waves of this explosion were felt as far as 65 miles.

Members of my immediate family have lost friends and classmates.

This is what we, and myself personally know (or didn't at the time):

• That there was a place that we had all driven past everyday, and never paid much attention to, that could be so dangerous and detrimental.
• That a "fire," which in this area is pretty common considering the 7+ year drought that we've all been in, would have been more tragic than anything in our history to go and check up on.
• All of the volunteer fire fighters (first responders to you city folk), who are just that "volunteers" didn't recognize the harm that they might be in, arrived to put out a fire.
• The fire caused the explosion, because otherwise violative chemicals/fertizers, stored in separate containers would have never mixed.

There are two things that I've learned about West, Texas over the past few days:

1. Most of us didn't know that there was a "fertilizer plant" in West, Texas.
2. The majority of the 2,800 people who lived in West lived within 500 yards of that plant.

And that those most effected relied upon that plant for a job, and that now we're all recognizing just how connected we are with this tragedy.

centexfarmer = central texas farmer.

This is that part of America where I live, where I have family, where I call home.

Like most disasters, either man made or otherwise, I find myself wanting to keep this at 'arms length.'

And the harder I try, the closer it gets.

Personally?

I'm more concerned that a major metropolitan area was, just today, put under a State and Federally sanctioned Government Shut Down, than I am the lack of regulation for fertilizer storage in rural communities throughout America.

While my neighbors, family members, and former coworkers struggle to find the missing, homes for displaced pets (evac shelters don't, or are not equipped to assist "pets"), and trying to put this behind us so that we can bury those who we know have already been killed, and who's lives have been destroyed, I know that we'll get it sorted out.

I didn't see a thread on this, so I thought that I might start one.

In this media frenzy, it makes me wonder what else is going on in the world that we're all missing.

[JayHawk]

Rachel Madow touched on this tonight.

BSA removing restrictions on gays.

Kansas governor signing the most restrictive abortion law in the country into law.

Immigration debate in congress preceding a vote. A subject which has plagued this country for decades was given a passing glance.


And West.


You know I kept seeing periodic reminders during the coverage of the asshats in Boston that 56 people still hospitalized and 11 in critical condition and to not forget them. I understood the sentiment but felt they should have embraced the nations wounds.

There are many more suffering in West these days.

We wont forget. Today was just an extraordinary day.

[Jack Springer]

The news on this tragedy has sparse -- other than covering Boston, MSNBC is stuck on gun control and HLN is stuck on their murder trial. CNN and FOX have covered it more.

I grew up in a rural area so I can empathize with how the people of West, TX may feel -- no one paying attention to them. The President has visited Boston -- but not West, TX.

We all know that US news revolves around New York and the east coast.

Centex, I'm not sure what to say. Your real world has changed ... I know what it's like not being able to see familiar places and familiar people. Life will never be the same for you and the others there .. but, we all go on.

One thing that no one understands is why a fertilizer plant could occupy space that close to a school and homes. Seems crazy.

[CTF]

Everyone just thought it was a fire.

There were volunteer firefighters already on the scene when this video was being shot.



They're all dead.

So yeah, there's a lot of grief in my area right now.

Before:



After:



Because everyone is still not accounted for, the whole north end of town is still cordoned off while they search through debris for bodies.

This is a part of Texas where everyone literally looks after each other.

Many of us don't even know where to start at this point.

It's a historic disaster, no doubt about that.

[andysayshi]

It's a horrible thing to be so close to disaster, Centex. I'm glad you're safe. Here's hoping that few if any more lives are found to be lost.

[CTF]

I'll be hearing from family today as we get together to discuss what we know, what we've found, and where we all go from here.

[JockBoy87]

I'm more concerned that a major metropolitan area was, just today, put under a State and Federally sanctioned Government Shut Down, than I am the lack of regulation for fertilizer storage in rural communities throughout America.

From what I understand, the police did not shut down the city. The police requested that the metro and other city functions voluntarily stop service, and people more quite willingly took the day off.

[White Eagle]

I'm sorry to hear you were so close to this disaster. Hoping you get things in order.
Did you mean ALL of the volunteers were killed? That's terrible, but I know what was in their hearts. My partner in Houston worked for a Fire Dept in West University. I met many FF in Houston and elsewhere. They all would have gone there.
I'm sorry again that Boston took up all the news and very little was shown on this disaster. I heard it once compared with the Monsanto blast in Texas City, Tx. Connection, West and Texas City. Both meaning areas of Texas, but alive with Texans.

[CTF]

From what I understand, the police did not shut down the city. The police requested that the metro and other city functions voluntarily stop service, and people more quite willingly took the day off.

That's good to hear JB.

I heard that the Greater Metropolitan Boston area was described on Friday as, "A snow day, without the snow."

Asserting, once again, that there is no "them" only us.

[CTF]

Did you mean ALL of the volunteers were killed?

Yes, those first to arrive before the blast are all un accounted for.

For those who don't know there are no "municipal" fire departments out here.

There's a fire and volunteers leave their jobs at the local Walmart, Convenience Stores, Dairy Queen, Pharmacy, BBQ Joint, or wherever they're at or what they're doing, and run to put the fire out.

Regardless of where it is, or what type of fire it is.

Which is one of the reasons why this is such a tragedy.

Everyone here is touched by this. Not to mention the loss of life and property within the blast area.

[White Eagle]

I can't believe no one thought of building homes this close to a fertilizer plant would be dangerous. That's basically what McVeigh used in Ok.

[Jack Springer]

Tough times for the people in West -- they have the OK to go back to their homes. I'm sure it will be a very difficult time for all.

[CTF]

That's all that anyone has talked about this weekend.

There's a sense in the area that this tragedy has brought us all together, whatever it takes to makes things right.

[Ninja108]

Making it right means perhaps admitting there is a need for things like regulations and regular inspections.
I will also admit..as someone who knows people that lost their homes or more,I find it galling that SOBS like Ted Cruz and other Texas Reps who voted down Sandy relief want Federal Aid for what looks like a diaster caused by the state government and its foolish idea that a company will actually police itself.
Federal Aid should be given,but I hope Cruz,Perry and all of those reps are reminded of their past votes and sayings while it's done.
Glad to hear you are safe Cent and my thoughts go you to you and your family.

[palbert]

A poignant remembrance of West before the blast.

I learned the news about the explosion in West, Texas, the way you seem to learn everything these days - on Twitter, and then Facebook. I was actually in the middle of telling someone about West. It's where I grew up and lived until I was 20.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...n-is-gone?lite

[Corny]

Sorry for the capitilization, i am on a German iPad that likes correcting me.

I read about the Explosion in the News Here. But there has Not been anythingnabout the cause of it. My Bad thought was, that of somebody stole a signifikant amount of fertilizrt, lets say for a Big bomb, the best Way to Cover it up Would be blowing the plant ....

[palbert]

Corny, from all appearances it was failure to follow storage safety - rather than nefariousness - that was responsible.

[JockBoy87]

I want to know which came first, the houses or the fertilizer plant.

[CTF]

A poignant remembrance of West before the blast.



http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...n-is-gone?lite

That story conveys a lot of my sentiments, and those who live in the area.

West, Texas has just been a part of my life, and the lives of a lot of people that I know for as long as I can remember.

And the loss of life and destruction to that town is more than a lot of us can bare.

I plan on stopping through next week and picking up some Kolaches on my way to Austin.

[CTF]

I want to know which came first, the houses or the fertilizer plant.

You're looking at it all wrong.

They all came up together.

In rural Texas it's not uncommon for commercial/industrial to be right beside residential.

This was an accident.

From what we know the fire started in the offices of the Fertilizer plant, and chemicals that were regulated, and recently inspected were separated from each other to avoid the type of explosion that happened.

The fire compromised that separation, and BOOM!

Because there's so much destruction, we may never know what the source of the fire actually was.

[Spiff]

That must have been very unnerving to see that mushroom cloud. I heard it could clearly be seen for over 50 miles. People who did not live close to the plant must have thought for a moment that we have been nuked. I certainly would have thought that, until I turned the news on.

[TX-Beau]

Well Kin Jong Un did threaten to nuke Austin.

[JockBoy87]

You're looking at it all wrong.

They all came up together.

At exactly the same time, well who thought it was a bright idea to build houses next to an hazardous plant?

This was an accident.

It was an accident.

Building homes next to a fertilizer plant is not.

In rural Texas it's not uncommon for commercial/industrial to be right beside residential.

Then why the surprise? Why the complaining?

In this world, you reap what you sow.

I don't shed tears for people who willfully live in the shadow of danger.

[JayHawk]

Corny, from all appearances it was failure to follow storage safety - rather than nefariousness - that was responsible.

By all appearances it was a failure to actually do safety inspections and the companies adamant declaration that no explosion threat existed.

That fertilizer does have to get to 1000 degrees to explode. So something else caught fire first.

Still none of that root cause will return the missing or dead.

[JayHawk]

At exactly the same time, well who thought it was a bright idea to build houses next to an hazardous plant?



It was an accident.

Building homes next to a fertilizer plant is not.



Then why the surprise? Why the complaining?

In this world, you reap what you sow.

I don't shed tears for people who willfully live in the shadow of danger.

Really. So fuck them.

Every city over a million in America is a potential target for terror. Every major event is a target as well. We all know that in the modern day that is a danger. So your saying you dont shed tears for those blown up in Boston? The police take danger on as a part of the job. there is always a risk of being shot and killed. So you don't shed a tear for the dead or the severely wounded cop in this weeks insanity?

Regulators from the state (however weak) allowed the plant to be there and the plant regularly denied there was any danger of explosion when asked. Now in hindsight you can easily tell everyone how much you knew ahead of time but I doubt given circumstance you would have altered your path in any way whatsoever.

I know it is against the rules so i wont actually ask for it... but give me your address and I will tell you in ten minutes all the ways you can die.

There is scientifically looking at fact and being cold about it and then there is a place where you have to have a ounce of humanity.

[chrisrobin]

.
Although we cannot bring back the dead, is anyone going to be held accountable for this travesty?

[CTF]

To be fair and honest, the only people that I've heard "complaining" about the Fertilizer Plant, or suggesting how stupid the people are who lost their homes, their friends, and members of their family, are people who've never been to West, Texas.

A place where 14 people died this past week.

If anyone is doing the math, that's 10 more people than were killed in Boston.

But hey! They're just a bunch of Texas country hicks, on welfare, who vote Republican, and might be too poor to live anywhere else.

So fuck em.

But we're not hearing any of that talk around here this Sunday Morning. Most are focusing on consoling the grieving and making funeral plans, while the area as a whole works on trying to put their lives back together, and to try to make some sense out of all this.

[JayHawk]

They are treating it as a criminal investigation to determine causation but say that is just to cleanly gather evidence and do not expect charges.

[JockBoy87]

Every city over a million in America is a potential target for terror.

#1 The West, Texas explosion was terror.

#2 Not every American lives next to a hazard.

Every major event is a target as well. We all know that in the modern day that is a danger. So your saying you dont shed tears for those blown up in Boston?

So quick to put words in my mouth today.

If you read my post, I said willfully live in danger.

Regulators from the state (however weak) allowed the plant to be there and the plant regularly denied there was any danger of explosion when asked. Now in hindsight you can easily tell everyone how much you knew ahead of time but I doubt given circumstance you would have altered your path in any way whatsoever.

Living next to a chemical plant?

Yeah that's not dangerous

There is scientifically looking at fact and being cold about it and then there is a place where you have to have a ounce of humanity.

Same goes for volcano victims by the way.

But hey! They're just a bunch of Texas country hicks, on welfare, who vote Republican, and might be too poor to live anywhere else.

You missed my point too. I said willfully. Poor people often have no choice where they live.

[JayHawk]

#1 The West, Texas explosion was terror.

#2 Not every American lives next to a hazard.



So quick to put words in my mouth today.

If you read my post, I said willfully live in danger.



Living next to a chemical plant?

Yeah that's not dangerous



Same goes for volcano victims by the way.



You missed my point too. I said willfully. Poor people often have no choice where they live.

You type (to my interpretation) extremely callous and ignorant words such as

Then why the surprise? Why the complaining?

In this world, you reap what you sow.

I don't shed tears for people who willfully live in the shadow of danger.

SO if it is those poor folks fault for being poor, my example is that people CHOSE to be at sporting events and large events ARE targets for terror ... so obviously... fuck terror victims they are stupid is where it goes.

I think you are using faulted logic to blame the victims for their deaths. You love the law... is it a women's fault for being in a raunchy stripper club late at night if she is raped?


Not putting words into your mouth, just applying your logic to different scenarios and finding it wanting.

[JockBoy87]

SO if it is those poor folks fault for being poor, my example is that people CHOSE to be at sporting events and large events ARE targets for terror ... so obviously... fuck terror victims they are stupid is where it goes.

I think you are using faulted logic to blame the victims for their deaths. You love the law... is it a women's fault for being in a raunchy stripper club late at night if she is raped?


Not putting words into your mouth, just applying your logic to different scenarios and finding it wanting.

Yes you are putting words in my mouth.

You can reasonably expect that a hazardous situation could unfold in this situation, but not a bombing at a ball game, which is what you said, not me.

And no, poor people do not willfully choose where they live.

Yes, if people put themselves in danger willfully, it is partially their fault for getting in danger.

[palemale]

In rural Texas it's not uncommon for commercial/industrial to be right beside residential.

This was an accident.

It wasn't an accident that those volunteer firefighters were unaware that a fire in the plant could blow them, and half of the town, sky high. It wasn't an accident that there were no plans to evacuate homes near the plant in the event of a fire to prevent injury and death to the town residents, plant workers and first responders. That is negligence, pure and simple. This is the result of a business and political culture that views regulation of public and occupational safety as an evil that interferes with profits.

I hope Texas and the United States learn the right lessons from this horrific event. I wouldn't call it an accident. It is a man-made disaster.

[JayHawk]

Yes you are putting words in my mouth.

You can reasonably expect that a hazardous situation could unfold in this situation, but not a bombing at a ball game, which is what you said, not me.

And no, poor people do not willfully choose where they live.

Yes, if people put themselves in danger willfully, it is partially their fault for getting in danger.

I am interpreting the callous words you state.

SO again is a women dressed slutty at a sexy club late at night responsible for her rape?

You disregard terror as not a reality. IF we had the mindset that terror is a reality then the guy who lost his legs would have been alarmed that a person walked by him and dropped a giant backpack and kept walking. So since he was not suspicious, since he was ignorant to what every person who has ever been around terror knows.... or hell anyone who has been to the airport... leavinbg a package laying about is not normal human behavior in a large crowd. So since he was ignorant of that danger is it the guys fault he has no legs? Taken further is it his fault a eight year old is dead? Why didnt he alert authorities? Anyone knows that people dont simply drop packages in big crowds, someone would steal it.... unless... unless it is a bomb....

[Kulindahr]

The TV news stations I can get have been running nothing but continuous Boston coverage, whether there's anything new or not, so the only reason I'd heard about this before was a friend caught a video of the fire on his iPhone, sent by a friend who loves vids of things burning down. I didn't know till I read this thread that anything had exploded.

[JockBoy87]

It wasn't an accident that those volunteer firefighters were unaware that a fire in the plant could blow them, and half of the town, sky high. It wasn't an accident that there were no plans to evacuate homes near the plant in the event of a fire to prevent injury and death to the town residents, plant workers and first responders. That is negligence, pure and simple. This is the result of a business and political culture that views regulation of public and occupational safety as an evil that interferes with profits.

I hope Texas and the United States learn the right lessons from this horrific event. I wouldn't call it an accident. It is a man-made disaster.

This is my point exactly, with some very astute corollaries.

[JayHawk]

Well my point is that it is ignorant and self serving to blame the victims for their crimes. If you can do it in one case then it applies to all because I can find ignorance in many things people do...

But if you feel satisfied that those Texans died and it was their own fault then that is you. I don't believe that at all. Especially when they were told over and over that there was no danger.

[Jack Springer]

^^

Allowing people to bring backpacks to sporting events is rather 'stupid' also - especially after 9/11. Here in KC you are very limited to what you can bring to a Royals or Chiefs game -- no backpacks, no objects that could do hard to people, no glass or metal objects, etc. --- the rules have been around way before 9/11.

I think one of the reasons that West has not been in the news is that 'news' happens primarily on the east coast and west coast -- the rest of the country is just fly-over country -- who cares if a bunch of hicks, farmers were killed -- they were just stupid.

[JayHawk]

^^

Allowing people to bring backpacks to sporting events is rather 'stupid' also - especially after 9/11. Here in KC you are very limited to what you can bring to a Royals or Chiefs game -- no backpacks, no objects that could do hard to people, no glass or metal objects, etc. --- the rules have been around way before 9/11.

I think one of the reasons that West has not been in the news is that 'news' happens primarily on the east coast and west coast -- the rest of the country is just fly-over country -- who cares if a bunch of hicks, farmers were killed -- they were just stupid.

Yet at the Kansas Speedway you may bring in a cooler that is twice the size of a back pack with no inspection.

There is zero doubt that society cannot limit ever venue and call itself free. BUT people should educate themselves and it is governments responsibility to educate society to note suspicious things. We are blissfully ignorant.

What do you suppose would happen to a young man who dropped his backpack in a crowd in Jerusalem?

Marathons may develop a larger security area. this one had a security area and behind it, just behind it, was where the bomb was placed. yet you cannot secure everything. We must empower the public to know what they are doing.

[JockBoy87]

Allowing people to bring backpacks to sporting events is rather 'stupid' also - especially after 9/11. Here in KC you are very limited to what you can bring to a Royals or Chiefs game -- no backpacks, no objects that could do hard to people, no glass or metal objects, etc. --- the rules have been around way before 9/11.

Since 9.11 they've been searching at Camden Yards too.

I think one of the reasons that West has not been in the news is that 'news' happens primarily on the east coast and west coast -- the rest of the country is just fly-over country -- who cares if a bunch of hicks, farmers were killed -- they were just stupid.

It just so happened that two tragedies happened at the same time, and because Boston is a bigger city and had a major social event at the time, it got the bigger coverage.

[Jack Springer]

^^
Jayhawk -- there are different rules in Kansas. You have to be half crazy to sit on shiny old-style, aluminum bench seats in bright sun, no shade, and 100 degree weather, so a cooler the size of an elephant might be in order.

The rules at the stadium in Missouri actually came out of a tragic event years ago where a fan was hit in the head by a beer bottle/can.

I suspect that there will be a call for new rules regarding hazardous plants in Texas and other states. I think farmers for the most part would want fertilizer plants near them for the convenience. Rural areas are also the place for things like wind farms, nuclear and coal plants that city folk don't want near them.

[JayHawk]

^^
Jayhawk -- there are different rules in Kansas. You have to be half crazy to sit on shiny old-style, aluminum bench seats in bright sun, no shade, and 100 degree weather, so a cooler the size of an elephant might be in order.

The rules at the stadium in Missouri actually came out of a tragic event years ago where a fan was hit in the head by a beer bottle/can.

I suspect that there will be a call for new rules regarding hazardous plants in Texas and other states. I think farmers for the most part would want fertilizer plants near them for the convenience. Rural areas are also the place for things like wind farms, nuclear and coal plants that city folk don't want near them.

Not to mention grain silos which are sitting bombs. I just refuse to believe that people are to blame for having a plant next them that explodes. If one can make that comparison and say that it is their fault because everyone knows those things explode... then i say everyone knows that large events are epicenters of terror and while every event does not have an explosion and terror, every fertilizer plant does not either....

To leave that definition to a single person on what they feel is ignorant or not is rather subjective.

[CowboyBob]

The last time the plant was inspected by OSHA was 1985.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3113117.html

"The fertilizer plant that exploded on Wednesday, obliterating part of a small Texas town and killing at least 14 people, had last year been storing 1,350 times the amount of ammonium nitrate that would normally trigger safety oversight by the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS).

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...oversight?lite

The company West Fertilizer Co. was fined in 2006 for lack of safety plan.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/n...0,684915.story


The company was criminally negligent.

[TX-Beau]

That's what I was hearing but it was hearsay from my farmer relatives with nothing to back it up. That and about how many Bohemians (not the hemp fiber hippie kind) lived up that'a way.

[White Eagle]

Not to mention grain silos which are sitting bombs. I just refuse to believe that people are to blame for having a plant next them that explodes. If one can make that comparison and say that it is their fault because everyone knows those things explode... then i say everyone knows that large events are epicenters of terror and while every event does not have an explosion and terror, every fertilizer plant does not either....

To leave that definition to a single person on what they feel is ignorant or not is rather subjective.

You made me think. Our ship channel has 10 miles of refineries along it. About half way down is a grain elevator. Not sure if it is still used for that, but I think that would be something to ask about.
And Jack Springer, your post of "I suspect that there will be a call for new rules regarding hazardous plants in Texas and other states." Don't count on it in Texas. You must remember we have GOP in charge and they do not like rules.

[TX-Beau]

If your silos are properly vented they will not explode.

[Kulindahr]

If your silos are properly vented they will not explode.

Barring some bizarre accident, that's true.

I have in mind one in Indiana, where the ventilating system was misbehaving in a way that filled the silo with fine dust. It was thick enough that when they turned the system off and sent someone in to look, it was dark. I don't know what he did to get some light, but he set off a dust explosion that punched a piece of the silo through the end of the nearby barn. I learned the tale because I was visiting some friends and I commented on the obviously new silo -- and was told that for the new one to explode, someone would have to actually set out to make it do so.


The same is true for modern fertilizer storage facilities. But the problem is that whether for grain or fertilizer, old facilities are often grandfathered in, and people get accustomed to regarding them as just as safe as any others, when they aren't.

[JayHawk]

If your silos are properly vented they will not explode.

They explode often enough that while true it does not reduce the fact that danger exist.

That danger exist and human beings most often live right next door.

And they grow food that other folks eat.

But that assumed danger is now their own stupidity in this instance..... << that is what i find a bit hard to agree with....




Cowboy I don't doubt that normally they could be found criminally negligent but in Texas they will not and when the local authorities are saying no charges will be levied then they will not. I agree that the company was the negligent party and should pay in some fashion. But a regulatory agency that fined them and then didn't inspect for seven years is twice as guilty.

[swerve]

Whether it be ill thought out zoning laws, or turning our backs on the homeless -- Society KILLS many of its own...

Yet, NO ONE will call it MURDER...

[swerve]

Oh -- and I heard that it was a drone exercise that went horribly wrong...

On ANOTHER vein...

I've also heard that Mansanto was behind it...

Do you think there could be any TRUTH behind these theories???

[CTF]

Memorial service for victims of the West tragedy will be held this Thursday at 2pm in the Ferrell Center on the Baylor University campus. Death toll remains at 14 w/ more than 200 people injured.

I'm expecting an overflow crowd.

Not sure if I'm going to attend or not.