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  1. #101
    Are you man enough? unloadonme's Avatar
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    Re: Breaking News Margaret Thatcher Dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by medic1 View Post
    Yes , it was just a glitch so why demean by saying stating the obvious is inexcusable ?
    As for obvious just what do you mean by the lower orders , and just how am i supposed to take the comment about the Celtic fringe ?

    I have always read your posts and though i do not agree with many of them i do like the way you usually make a point , though polarising certain elements of our society by saying what are quite insulting comments does you a disservice .
    You still don't get it. I was saying that it was inexcusable of me to state the obvious twice in my post. Irony!

    What do I mean by the lower orders? I mean the working classes essentially. The Celtic fringe means the parts of the UK other than England and is a term mentioned here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_nations

    My point was that it was generally the working classes, the Scots and the Welsh who opposed The Lady. Her support came mostly from elsewhere.

    How are you supposed to take that? You're the doctor. A suppository maybe?

  2. #102
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    Re: Breaking News Margaret Thatcher Dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by GM1985 View Post
    Whatever she may have done, I still don't think it's appropriate for people to be gathering in crowds and teaching young children who have no idea who Margaret Thatcher is that it is acceptable to celebrate the death of an old woman.
    It's also inappropriate to give such a divisive political figure such a public, ceremonial burial, that was a de facto state funeral.

  3. #103
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    Re: Breaking News Margaret Thatcher Dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by unloadonme View Post
    You still don't get it. I was saying that it was inexcusable of me to state the obvious twice in my post. Irony!

    What do I mean by the lower orders? I mean the working classes essentially. The Celtic fringe means the parts of the UK other than England and is a term mentioned here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_nations

    My point was that it was generally the working classes, the Scots and the Welsh who opposed The Lady. Her support came mostly from elsewhere.

    How are you supposed to take that? You're the doctor. A suppository maybe?
    So the Scots and the Welsh are the working class ?
    As for taking a suppository , i would love to unload on you , Just hope you like scat , as for quoting wikipedia , how fucking original .

    As i said before it must be great to be living in Avalon , or in your case another reality to us working class folks .

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by jimmayy View Post
    It's also inappropriate to give such a divisive political figure such a public, ceremonial burial, that was a de facto state funeral.
    Quoted for absolute truth...... .

  4. #104

    Re: Breaking News Margaret Thatcher Dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by jimmayy View Post
    It's also inappropriate to give such a divisive political figure such a public, ceremonial burial...
    To whom would YOU give state funerals?— uncontroversial, popular people? David Beckham? Spice Girls?

  5. #105
    Are you man enough? unloadonme's Avatar
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    Re: Breaking News Margaret Thatcher Dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by medic1 View Post
    So the Scots and the Welsh are the working class ?
    If you read what I said again I think you'll see that I didn't say that at all. I listed three separate categories of voter who generally didn't vote Conservative.

    Quote Originally Posted by medic1 View Post
    As for taking a suppository , i would love to unload on you , Just hope you like scat , as for quoting wikipedia , how fucking original . As i said before it must be great to be living in Avalon , or in your case another reality to us working class folks .
    Charming.

  6. #106
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    Re: Breaking News Margaret Thatcher Dead.

    The irony for many anti Thatcherites is the fact that she led her Conservative Party to victory at three consecutive general elections with sufficient votes from the "lower orders," "working classes," Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland and the Scilly Isles to ensure that she remains a controversial politician in death as she once was when prime minister.

    I rather suspect that there are very many Yorkshire people who voted for the Conservative Party during the eighties who, label themselves members of the "working classes" although, my experience of Yorkshire people would suggest that they would never label themselves members of the "lower orders."

    What's good for the goose is, good for the gander understanding that the venomous insults that have been exchanged between the pro and, anti Thatcher factions suggests that freedom of expression remains a fundamental right for all citizens of the United Kingdom.

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    Re: Breaking News Margaret Thatcher Dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by unloadonme View Post
    If you read what I said again I think you'll see that I didn't say that at all. I listed three separate categories of voter who generally didn't vote Conservative.

    Bollocks , i suggest you read again your post you stated that the working class were the Scots and the Welsh and "The Lady`s"
    support generally came from elsewhere , but hey please do carry on backtracking , also you were the one to try and be clever with your use of the word suppository , what`s up don`t like it when you are called out on such bigoted views ?



    Charming.
    Read above , silly me another glitch !!!

  8. #108
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    Re: Breaking News Margaret Thatcher Dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by pat grimshaw View Post
    To whom would YOU give state funerals?— uncontroversial, popular people? David Beckham? Spice Girls?
    Well ,well , To whom would i give a state funeral , such occasions are normally reserved for the reigning Monarch , why put you in block
    are you trying to make some sort of an asinine point ?
    Guess what you failed , again , but then with your posting style you must be used to that by now .

    Please don`t post that the comment was not meant for me , such a ludicrous post deserves an answer , no ?

  9. #109
    The old familiar sting blackbeltninja's Avatar
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    Re: Breaking News Margaret Thatcher Dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by jimmayy View Post
    It's also inappropriate to give such a divisive political figure such a public, ceremonial burial, that was a de facto state funeral.
    I assume in the UK, as with many other nations, that a sitting or former Head of State always gets a state funeral.

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  10. #110

    Re: Breaking News Margaret Thatcher Dead.

    Unloadonme will tell us that Thatcher got a quasi-state funeral.

    It was still a very expensive funeral but I assume some of that cost was to pay the police to stop the ratbags and grudge-holders from interrupting it.

  11. #111
    Are you man enough? unloadonme's Avatar
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    Re: Breaking News Margaret Thatcher Dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by blackbeltninja View Post
    I assume in the UK, as with many other nations, that a sitting or former Head of State always gets a state funeral.
    Are you confusing Head of State with Head of Government? The Queen, as Head of State, will undoubtedly be given a state funeral when the time comes. Except in the unlikely event of an abdication, there is never a living former Head of State in the UK.

    The Prime Minister is Head of Government and there are generally several former Prime Ministers alive. Since the death of The Lady, there are three. Most Prime Minsters are not given either a state or a ceremonial funeral. There were no such funerals between Churchill's in 1965 and The Lady's last week.

  12. #112
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    Re: Breaking News Margaret Thatcher Dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by blackbeltninja View Post
    I assume in the UK, as with many other nations, that a sitting or former Head of State always gets a state funeral.

    -d-
    Head of State - yes (The Monarch) Head of Government - no.

    Winston Churchill was the one exception for as prime minister he united a nation to wage war against a common enemy.

  13. #113
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    Re: Breaking News Margaret Thatcher Dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by pat grimshaw View Post
    Unloadonme will tell us that Thatcher got a quasi-state funeral.
    The Lady was given a ceremonial funeral which was one step down from a state funeral. There was no lying in state and the gun carriage was pulled by horses rather than naval ratings.

    Quote Originally Posted by pat grimshaw View Post
    It was still a very expensive funeral but I assume some of that cost was to pay the police to stop the ratbags and grudge-holders from interrupting it.
    Security would have been a large part of the cost, yes. Happily, demonstrators were in a minority on the day and they didn't pose much of a security threat.

  14. #114
    Are you man enough? unloadonme's Avatar
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    Re: Breaking News Margaret Thatcher Dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    Head of State - yes (The Monarch) Head of Government - no. Winston Churchill was the one exception for as prime minister he united a nation to wage war against a common enemy.
    Actually, there are two exceptions. The First Duke of Wellington was given a state funeral in 1852, having served as Prime Minister twice. Arguably, of course, the funeral was in recognition of his military rather than political achievements.

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    Re: Breaking News Margaret Thatcher Dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by blackbeltninja View Post
    I assume in the UK, as with many other nations, that a sitting or former Head of State always gets a state funeral.

    -d-
    Yep , you are correct , though the late Queen-Mother who was a wonderful woman , especially her and the late Kings conduct during
    the 2nd world war where they refused to be evacuated to Canada and choose to stay in Buck-House .

    She famously said after the palace was bombed that "she could look the east-end in the face again" , yet this grand old lady had the exact same funeral as Thatcher , apart from her grandchildren standing en-garde at either side of her coffin as she lay in State .
    The crowds who stood for many hours to pass her coffin and pay their respects were a testimony to this .

    Yet Cameron used 10million of the taxpayers money to fund "The Lady`s" , while at the same time cutting the benefits of many disabled people .
    Basically it was a party political broadcast on behalf of this present government , though i am happy to report that this has turned round and bitten him right in the arse .

    What people have to remember is she WAS NOT a Head of State , we have a constitutional monarchy , she was our Head of Government , something a lot of Brits either forget or choose to forget , "yes you know i am referring to you" .

    At the end of the day i do remember that at the end she was an 87yr old woman with dementia so unlike others i did not dance a jig when she passed into "Sainthood" , however she tore this country apart , whole communities were destroyed and to this day that devastation is still remembered .

    Sorry -d- for the rant , hopefully i answered your question during it..... .

    My apologies while i was typing you had several other reply`s , unnloadonme is bang on apart from Winston , in living memory she has been the only Prime-Minister to be accorded such Honours .

    Grimshaws statement is beyond contempt , i suggest he lives here before branding people who are exercising their legal right to protest as "ratbags" .

  16. #116
    The old familiar sting blackbeltninja's Avatar
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    Re: Breaking News Margaret Thatcher Dead.

    Sorry, yes, Head of Government is what I meant.

    However, I assumed that England would give former PMs a state funeral - apparently I was mistaken.

    -d-
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  17. #117
    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: Breaking News Margaret Thatcher Dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by unloadonme View Post
    Actually, there are two exceptions. The First Duke of Wellington was given a state funeral in 1852, having served as Prime Minister twice. Arguably, of course, the funeral was in recognition of his military rather than political achievements.
    You're correct, to correct me also, noting that Arthur Wellesley, Duke of Wellington was an Irishman, Dublin born into an aristocratic family whose political claim to fame, despite being an arch conservative and, Anglican was in his persuading both Parliament and, The King that the Catholic Emancipation Bill should be legislated into law. He also outplayed Bonaparte with a little help from overnight heavy rain preventing the French from moving their artillery into position at Waterloo.

    Thanks, for the correction.

  18. #118

    Re: Breaking News Margaret Thatcher Dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    ... the Catholic Emancipation Bill should be legislated into law....
    So he's the laissez-faire politician responsible for permitting those Catholic cults to practice their damaging superstition, idolatry, propaganda and mind-control on each other?
    Last edited by pat grimshaw; April 21st, 2013 at 03:28 PM.

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    Re: Breaking News Margaret Thatcher Dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by pat grimshaw View Post
    Is he the one who freed the Catholics?
    Freed the Catholics, from what?

  20. #120

    Re: Breaking News Margaret Thatcher Dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    Freed the Catholics, from what?
    From discipline. Too many were sent as convicts to my country when it was still in a wild, uncivilised state and they bred like rabbits (as they're taught to do) so much so that they comprised a quarter of the population and their constant complaining has got them into parliament where they have subverted the nation's funding to pay for TWO education systems to appease them.

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    Re: Breaking News Margaret Thatcher Dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by pat grimshaw View Post
    So he's the laissez-faire politician responsible for permitting those Catholic cults to practice their damaging superstition, idolatry, propaganda and mind-control on each other?
    Arthur Wellesley grew up in Dublin and was very much aware of the need to rescind many of the restrictions that had been placed on Catholics from the time of The Reformation, not just in Ireland also in the rest of the United Kingdom. His shrewd political sense was well respected by his opponents and fellow conservatives alike as a social reformer despite also being an arch conservative - a rather bizarre combination for any politician who had made his reputation as a soldier and victorious general and this probably accounts for his being granted a funeral with full military honours.

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    Re: Breaking News Margaret Thatcher Dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by pat grimshaw View Post
    From discipline. Too many were sent as convicts to my country when it was still in a wild, uncivilised state and they bred like rabbits (as they're taught to do) so much so that they comprised a quarter of the population and their constant complaining has got them into parliament where they have subverted the nation's funding to pay for TWO education systems to appease them.
    I recall you informing us when you first appeared here that you are a British migrant to Australia - surely not as a convict?

    Australia was originally populated by large numbers of English, Welsh, Scottish and Irish convicts.

    I am ignoring your other comments.

  23. #123
    Sex God GM1985's Avatar
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    Re: Breaking News Margaret Thatcher Dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by jimmayy View Post
    It's also inappropriate to give such a divisive political figure such a public, ceremonial burial, that was a de facto state funeral.
    I don't think, in any of my posts, I said it wasn't.

  24. #124

    Re: Breaking News Margaret Thatcher Dead.

    OFF-TOPIC

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    I recall you informing us when you first appeared here that you …
    No. My people arrived 15 years after England stopped shipping its refuse here. We helped turn this semi-arid island into a nation.

    I must say that the Irish male convicts I mentioned earlier were the most active in miscegenating native women which has spawned lots of free money—

    http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegr...it_down_money/

  25. #125
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    Re: Breaking News Margaret Thatcher Dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by jimmayy View Post
    It's also inappropriate to give such a divisive political figure such a public, ceremonial burial, that was a de facto state funeral.
    No, respectfully offered, it is controversial to have recognized a polarizing figure, but not inappropriate. It would be rare for the populace to directly have say in such a state decision. The powers that be made the call, and the funeral followed as directed.

    One doesn't have to advocate the former PM's policies to concede that any PM is entitled to the honor if the State so decides. To peck away at it makes a weak argument that impeaching the ceremony might help discredit her policies. Her government's legacy will live on in history under their own merits or detriments, and begrudging her followers the ceremonial funeral just looks petty.
    There are TWO kinds of people in the world -- the kind who believe there are two kinds of people, and the kind who don't.

  26. #126
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    Re: Breaking News Margaret Thatcher Dead.

    "You may only be one person to the world, but you may also be the world to one person"
    - anonymous quote.

  27. #127
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    Re: Breaking News Margaret Thatcher Dead.

    Was she cremated, or is that dust?

    Even though satirical, the point is well made. We become dust and our lives must stand on their merits.

    Your post was that the (imagined) devil has her now, but your York friend might suggest that the ages have her.
    There are TWO kinds of people in the world -- the kind who believe there are two kinds of people, and the kind who don't.

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    Re: Breaking News Margaret Thatcher Dead.

    I'm pretty much sure the devil has her, poor man.
    "You may only be one person to the world, but you may also be the world to one person"
    - anonymous quote.

  29. #129
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    Re: Breaking News Margaret Thatcher Dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dejavudoo View Post
    One doesn't have to advocate the former PM's policies to concede that any PM is entitled to the honor if the State so decides. To peck away at it makes a weak argument that impeaching the ceremony might help discredit her policies. Her government's legacy will live on in history under their own merits or detriments, and begrudging her followers the ceremonial funeral just looks petty.
    Umm - the Ceremonial funeral is a grand affair and an exception to the rule for former prime ministers.
    Many former prime ministers since Churchill have died and were not given the big Ceremonial funeral.

    In fact - it looks like she's the only non-royal to have received one, ever.

    Given how divisive a character she was, I can understand the controversy.
    Blah blah blah, something enigmatic sounding...

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    Re: Breaking News Margaret Thatcher Dead.

    My oh my... what a thread...


    Can we consider changing the topic... every time I read "Breaking News Margaret Thatcher Dead."

    I think that isnt Breaking... that shit is broken....

    I dunno what to think about her. I admire anyone who has the where with all to be born to a green grocer and grow up to lead HER country. I am still embarrassed that a country with 50% women that preaches equality has never had a female leader. But we are trying.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  31. #131
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    Re: Breaking News Margaret Thatcher Dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    I think that isnt Breaking... that shit is broken....
    Because of your wisdom, I mentally bump up your age, which makes it easy for me to presume you'd remember SNL gags that were popular when I was in college and before. There was a merciless running joke on SNL News for weeks that continued to announce "Generalissimo Francisco Franco, STILL dead!" It was so long ago, I believe Chevy Chase was the news reader.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hot Stuff
    I am still embarrassed that a country with 50% women that preaches equality has never had a female leader. But we are trying.
    Preach it, Brutha, preach it!
    There are TWO kinds of people in the world -- the kind who believe there are two kinds of people, and the kind who don't.

  32. #132
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    Re: Breaking News Margaret Thatcher Dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by BENDERBOY View Post
    I'm pretty much sure the devil has her, poor man.
    It's hardly fair to chuck out Christianity as a fairy tale but keep the antagonist. That's seems a bit square-wheeled.

    Or is this the devil from Futurama?
    There are TWO kinds of people in the world -- the kind who believe there are two kinds of people, and the kind who don't.

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    Re: Breaking News Margaret Thatcher Dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dejavudoo View Post
    It's hardly fair to chuck out Christianity as a fairy tale but keep the antagonist. That's seems a bit square-wheeled.

    Or is this the devil from Futurama?
    I move in mysterious ways.
    "You may only be one person to the world, but you may also be the world to one person"
    - anonymous quote.

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    Re: Breaking News Margaret Thatcher Dead.

    Your theology is hole-y, hole-y, hole-y.
    There are TWO kinds of people in the world -- the kind who believe there are two kinds of people, and the kind who don't.

  35. #135
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    Re: Breaking News Margaret Thatcher Dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by medic1 View Post
    She famously said after the palace was bombed that "she could look the east-end in the face again" ,
    Yeah, right. When did that hoary old bag deign to lurch out of her palace to look at east enders in their slum squalour the first time?

    Beulah, peel me a grape.

  36. #136

    Re: Breaking News Margaret Thatcher Dead.

    ^


    The Palace was bombed. But all the pictures of her visiting the bombed-out East End seemed to have been taken on the same day— or she was wearing the same dress.:0

  37. #137
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    Re: Breaking News Margaret Thatcher Dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dejavudoo View Post
    Because of your wisdom, I mentally bump up your age, which makes it easy for me to presume you'd remember SNL gags that were popular when I was in college and before. There was a merciless running joke on SNL News for weeks that continued to announce "Generalissimo Francisco Franco, STILL dead!" It was so long ago, I believe Chevy Chase was the news reader.



    Preach it, Brutha, preach it!
    We had a female President. Nancy Reagan, she ran the White House during the second term.

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    Re: Breaking News Margaret Thatcher Dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dejavudoo View Post
    Was she cremated, or is that dust?
    She was cremated. Her ashes are to be buried next to those of Sir Denis at the Royal Hospital in Chelsea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dejavudoo View Post
    Your post was that the (imagined) devil has her now, but your York friend might suggest that the ages have her.
    Angels? No, as a confirmed atheist, I think talk of angels is as inappropriate as talk of the devil. Bender's just being Scottish.

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    Re: Breaking News Margaret Thatcher Dead.

    WOW , so being Scottish now mitigates a post ?

    Cmon , yep we have had our HUGE differences here , though i would never bring a persons nationality into "bat" , i posted about our spat here on the Thread "why are so many leaving jub" , i meant every word of it , as i said many posts ago here yes we do not agree but i always read your posts and i have always enjoyed the way you put your views across , why bring a persons birthplace into the
    discussion ?

    You , yes you are better than that .

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    Re: Breaking News Margaret Thatcher Dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by unloadonme View Post
    She was cremated. Her ashes are to be buried next to those of Sir Denis at the Royal Hospital in Chelsea.

    Angels? No, as a confirmed atheist, I think talk of angels is as inappropriate as talk of the devil. Bender's just being Scottish.
    No, Paul, it was a misquote by me. I meant "the ages have her now" which was a play on "the angels have her now" and is an allusion to her owning a place in history, alongside others in the political and royal pantheon.
    There are TWO kinds of people in the world -- the kind who believe there are two kinds of people, and the kind who don't.

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    Re: Breaking News Margaret Thatcher Dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by BillyT View Post
    We had a female President. Nancy Reagan, she ran the White House during the second term.
    Nice zinger.

    Edith Wilson certainly deserves it more outright, and then Eleanor for her overt involvement in advocating public policy.

    That said, I understand your resentment at Mrs. Reagan's role, including her defeat of Donald Regan. I was never a Republican, so there was no love lost anyway, but she was an easy person to dislike at the time.

    In retrospect though, first wives have become targets of the opposition, and that's a shame if not a new development. The Caesars had similar detractors.
    There are TWO kinds of people in the world -- the kind who believe there are two kinds of people, and the kind who don't.

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    Re: Breaking News Margaret Thatcher Dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by medic1 View Post
    WOW , so being Scottish now mitigates a post ?
    Friend, I don't think there is actual animus between Paul and Seth. Paul was only alluding to the penchant of the Scottish (and the English) for derisive wit.

    The play on "the angels have her now" alludes to the maudlin engravings on tombstones, and Seth's satirical corruption of it to make a wry comment.

    I think Paul was paying homage to Scottish wit, don't you?
    There are TWO kinds of people in the world -- the kind who believe there are two kinds of people, and the kind who don't.

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    Dry British humour can appear brutal to spectators
    Blah blah blah, something enigmatic sounding...

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    Re: Breaking News Margaret Thatcher Dead.

    Some of us live for it, as well as hearing a Scottish brogue.

    Love my friends abroad.
    There are TWO kinds of people in the world -- the kind who believe there are two kinds of people, and the kind who don't.

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    Re: Breaking News Margaret Thatcher Dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keeland View Post
    Yeah, right. When did that hoary old bag deign to lurch out of her palace to look at east enders in their slum squalour the first time?

    Beulah, peel me a grape.
    Come on m8 , no matter what your political views are she was still carrying out official duties when she was 98 yrs old , she was also very pro-gay , many of her household staff were gay men , she would rather have gay staff than strt ones .
    How do i know this ?
    One of my friends work for her for many years and the story`s he told about his time there were really funny .
    Perhaps it is because i have such strong ties with the Armed Forces , plus our oath of Attestation is to the Monarch not the Government of the day .

    Even here in working-class Scotland she is remembered with huge affection , especially by the generation that fought in the 2nd World War .

    There are accounts of her taking our present Monarch to "the slums" as a reminder that not every person is born with the proverbial
    silver spoon .

    Yes there are huge differences , but you have to remember that she was an Edwardian Woman . So this mindset stayed with her throughout her very long life .

    I really do see your point , i even share many of them , Though like Thatcher i would not resort to dancing a jig when she died .

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