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  1. #1
    A Total Bottom mbamike's Avatar
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    True Conservatism and Gay Rights

    "If you have never read about or heard Barry Goldwater, you are missing out. He was a Republican Senator in Arizona and the Republican Presidential nominee in 1964. Nicknamed "Mr. Conservative", he represents what the Republican Party should have been before selling out to the Religious Right - a party dedicated to small constitutional government, equal opportunity for all, free markets and individual liberty. He has become a libertarian hero for his dedication to these principles even as the Republican Party moved closer to the Evangelicals and abandoned its core mission to keep our citizens as free from the constraints of government as possible. Here are some quotes I think you will enjoy.

    On Gay Rights

    "The big thing is to make this country, along with every other country in the world with a few exceptions, quit discriminating against people just because they're gay. You don't have to agree with it, but they have a constitutional right to be gay. And that's what brings me into it."

    "Having spent 37 years of my life in the military as a reservist, and never having met a gay in all of that time, and never having even talked about it in all those years, I just thought, why the h*ll shouldn't they serve? They're American citizens. As long as they're not doing things that are harmful to anyone else... So I came out for it."

    “Gays and lesbians are a part of every American family. They should not be shortchanged in their efforts to better their lives and serve their communities. As President Clinton likes to say, ‘If you work hard and play by the rules, you’ll be rewarded’ and not with a pink slip just for being gay.”

    On True Conservatism

    "What I was talking about[Gay rights, Abortion]was more or less 'conservative,' " Goldwater recalls, saying he was smeared by the people around President Johnson – "the most dishonest man we ever had in the presidency." Goldwater continues: "The oldest philosophy in the world is conservatism, and I go clear back to the first Greeks. ... When you say 'radical right' today, I think of these moneymaking ventures by fellows like Pat Robertson and others who are trying to take the Republican Party away from the Republican Party, and make a religious organization out of it. If that ever happens, kiss politics goodbye." "[SOURCE: BlueNC.com]

    I think the religious fundamentalist have been successful in taking the Republican Party away from the Republican Party. We need to return to our core principles of small constitutional government, equal opportunity for all, free markets and individual liberty.

    Therefore, it appears to me that a "true conservative" will support gay rights and marriage equality based upon the principles of our Constitution.

    Homophobia kills!

  2. #2
    JUB Addict Sausy's Avatar
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    Re: True Conservatism and Gay Rights

    Especially in his later years in the Senate and during his retirement, he regularly blasted the religious right takeover. Look at the last GOP presidential nomination cycle and how much power the religious right wields... Jon Huntsman was treated as an oddity and ex- New Mexico governor Gary Johnson, who is the most Barry Goldwater-like of modern Republicans could only run as a Libertarian. The winner, "establishment" Republican Mitt Romney (whose father George Romney, former Michigan governor, would not go far in today's GOP)... though originally a moderate who was governor of Massachusetts, was fully in line with the religious right base, never challenged the orthodoxy of today's GOP, never took a stand that would risk his front runner status that would alienate the far right.
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  3. #3
    GiancarloC
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    Re: True Conservatism and Gay Rights

    That's nice and all, but much else what Barry GOldwater stood for was quite repugnant. Libertarianism is NOT a moderate viewpoint and it would have devastating consequences when it comes to the economy and any sort of social net that exists in this country. I view it as a direct threat to the workers.

  4. #4
    JUB Addict maxpowr9's Avatar
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    Re: True Conservatism and Gay Rights

    The GOP needs to divorce the religious right and as much as they extol Reagan into bringing them under the GOP tent, it in the long-run has damaged the brand.

    The irony of it all is that marriage at its core regardless of sexuality is a conservative value. It binds two persons together until they will [supposedly] die. Again, if the GOP truly cared about marriage, it would be against divorce and shun anyone who got divorced. So when you look around at the "Conservative" talking heads and how many of them have been divorced, their crusade against gay marriage falls flat and they lose any weight in the argument if they had any to begin with.

  5. #5
    JUB Addict CoolBlue71's Avatar
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    Re: True Conservatism and Gay Rights

    I have the DVD, Mr. Conservative: Goldwater on Goldwater, about the late Arizona U.S. Sen. Barry Goldwater (b. 1909; d. 1998). He was, of course, the 1964 Republican presidential nominee. That was an uncommon presidential election, for numerous reasons.

    His vice-presidential running mate was William Miller, a congressman from the state of New York. Miller has been dead since for about 30 years. His daughter is comedienne and talk-radio host Stephanie Miller, a liberal and Democratic voter, who was three years old in that presidential year.

    Goldwater did not like what the Republican party was doing, during the period of Ronald Reagan, in kissing up to and bringing in the religious right. He said something to the effect that Jerry Falwell needed a good kicking in his ass.

    John McCain now holds the U.S. Senate seat that was with Goldwater. In the 1990s, when the Republicans were giving Bill Clinton a hard time with his presidency, Goldwater saw what was becoming of the party and considered them jackasses. (He may have used that word.)

  6. #6
    A Total Bottom mbamike's Avatar
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    Re: True Conservatism and Gay Rights



    Pay special attention to 3:19 forward.

    Homophobia kills!

  7. #7
    JUB Addict Sausy's Avatar
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    Re: True Conservatism and Gay Rights

    Goldwater was unlike most of his day and certainly today one of principle. I am pro-life, but have a great deal of respect for him being a true libertarian. Unlike Giancarlo, I appreciate those even whom I disagree with in the GOP who say what they mean, and mean what they say. Let's have a political battle on what kind of government is right for us...more limited or more expansive. But let's also not throw away individual rights in the process or make government an arm of the pulpit. Shame there are so few conservatives who would do battle with the interlopers who threaten to institute the kind of governance they decry among islamists and Sharia law....just substituting the Bible and Christian fundamentalism. Maybe no beheadings( or stonings...yet) but NOT the America most dream of us ever becoming. Thanks for the clips and the thread!
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  8. #8
    GiancarloC
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    Re: True Conservatism and Gay Rights

    Unlike me? I have serious problems with libertarianism as a whole and I say time and time again it's NOT a MODERATE PHILOSOPHY. It has nothing to do with being a moderate and its a draconian set of views that would inflict harm on the people. Barry Goldwater... well as far as gay rights fine... but look at all his other views. Mostly wrong in their entirety. Limited government is just another excuse to screw the people... by cutting services like health care and education. It's a self serving bullshit story that libertarians come up with. I often point to Brazil as an example, as it is a mixed system with a government that does intervene to protect its people and country. Libertarians don't want a safety net, or they want to reduce it to almost nothing. That to me is incredibly dangerous and self destructive.

    Keep up the smug responses... they don't win points.
    Last edited by GiancarloC; March 29th, 2013 at 11:45 AM.

  9. #9
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    Re: True Conservatism and Gay Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    That's nice and all, but much else what Barry GOldwater stood for was quite repugnant. Libertarianism is NOT a moderate viewpoint and it would have devastating consequences when it comes to the economy and any sort of social net that exists in this country. I view it as a direct threat to the workers.
    Spoken like the true Spanish Socialists that you are.

    And I mean a true "socialists."

    Not this crap that the Tea Party nut jobs call Obama.

    Barry Goldwater IS the father of "modern day conservatism" here in America, which today translates into being "Libertarian."

    Back a few years ago, when you were filling up your diapers wherever you were living, Barry Goldwater was painted as the defacto nut job here in America.

    But Ronald Reagan got "elected" running on Barry Goldwater's "conservative" principles.

    Supposedly.

    It's all Bullshit.

    While Ronald Reagan was President the so called "silent majority" signed on (known today as Evangelical "Christians.")

    That's about the time that Barry Goldwater bailed from the GOP, and became what many of us would call a Libertarian today.

    If anyone thinks that today's Republicans, and the Corporate Establishment Tea Party idiots are "conservatives" then GOP Supporters, and Fox News need to get caught up.

    They're neither "conservative" or "libertarian," and any those supposed ideals are nothing more than failed "branding" after the deaths of Reagan, Goldwater, and Jerry Falwell.

    TRUE CONSERVATIVES truly believe in "less government" and not in protecting the "rich" but in keeping Uncle Sam out of our bedrooms, and our sister's vaginas.

    Democrats and Liberals should be arguing that point, but over the past 30 years, after being in power for nearly 50 years can't seem to be able to find their ass if it was pinned to a donkey, in a paper bag, with a flash light, and a GPS navigation system showing them the way.

    And we're all being sold the Madison Avenue Myth of what it means to be "Conservative" in America.

    Unbelievable.
    Never regret anything, because in that moment it's exactly what you wanted.

  10. #10
    GiancarloC
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    Re: True Conservatism and Gay Rights

    Um the Spanish Socialist Workers Party lost its way decades ago when they surrendered to bankers and capitalists.

    Libertarianism itself misses several key points and isn't addressing reality. It's a fantasy land philosophy.

    "Less government" is just another excuse not to fund services. It has no basis in reality, and it doesn't help prosperity. We need a mixed system. I've said this time and time again. Notice I'm not even calling for a socialist system. People like to misstate and misconstrue... seems to be a common theme here.

  11. #11
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    Re: True Conservatism and Gay Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    Um the Spanish Socialist Workers Party lost its way decades ago when they surrendered to bankers and capitalists.
    Sounds like Democrats.

    They blame lack of "campaign finance reform" but aren't willing to take any leadership in changing it while they live high off of the corporate dole like their "alledged" GOP counter parts.

    Libertarianism itself misses several key points and isn't addressing reality. It's a fantasy land philosophy.
    But compared to the current "ideology" presented by both parties, it seems more realistically achievable.

    And gives the Libertarians the chance to call both parties hypocrites.

    "Less government" is just another excuse not to fund services. It has no basis in reality, and it doesn't help prosperity. We need a mixed system. I've said this time and time again. Notice I'm not even calling for a socialist system. People like to misstate and misconstrue... seems to be a common theme here.
    If you're taking my comments directed toward yours personal, that's your shit.

    Otherwise the fact is no one "here" ever really wants to talk about the elephant in the room.

    Most of the posters here just want to piss and moan about each other and their opinions rather than to address any form of reality, or to come up with any ideas to do something about it.
    Never regret anything, because in that moment it's exactly what you wanted.

  12. #12
    GiancarloC
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    Re: True Conservatism and Gay Rights

    I'll have to agree to disagree. Libertarians are totally wrong and off based with reality. It's almost a sense of obtuseness. I have addressed reality and have cited REAL EXAMPLES to prove my point. Libertarianism has no basis in reality. And they are pro-corporation too.

    But compared to the current "ideology" presented by both parties, it seems more realistically achievable.
    Far from it. Libertarianism is a form of extremism and it's not a moderate belief system. It's not realistic either. It's distorting the reality. Libertarianism is the enemy of the people and the workers.

  13. #13
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    Re: True Conservatism and Gay Rights

    I think you've over-generalized a bit. Not all self-proclaimed libertarians are ivory tower (hell, most aren't even libertarian, they just don't want to associate with conservatism). Many [self-proclaimed] libertarians ARE moderates on the spectrum, even though the actual ideology is devastatingly right-wing.

    Agreed, the ideology can be quite distorted when it comes to what it expects of the people and their actions, but it's not all bad. They've had some good ideas. They've had some bad ones too.

    I don't think any 'purist' application of any ideology is practical. I can't think of any successful country that relies on one ideology as its sole source of inspiration. The most successful countries took good ideas from many sources.

  14. #14
    JUB Addict Ninja108's Avatar
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    Re: True Conservatism and Gay Rights

    Alas,some of GOldwater's other views weren't quite as enlighting as his ones about the religious right. As for Romney,he might have had to swing further to the right but he was never a fan of LGBT citizens and still isn't.

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