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  1. #1
    JUB Addict CoolBlue71's Avatar
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    U.S. Sen. Kay Hagan declares her support for gay marriage; others follow suit

    U.S. Sen. Kay Hagan declares her support
    for gay marriage


    By Rob Christensen | March 27, 2013
    http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/03/...lares-her.html


    Sen. Kay Hagan said Wednesday that she supported the right of gay people to marry, saying “we should not tell people who they can love or who they can marry.”Hagan, one of the few Democratic senators who had not previously come out in support of gay marriage, announced her support as the U.S. Supreme Court hears arguments on a U.S. law that denies federal benefits to married same-sex couples.
    I post this article because, with more and more movement in support from elected members of both houses of Congress (the U.S. Senate seems to get more attention) as well as from former elected leaders and some in the beltway (David Frum, at The Daily Beast, is on board), Kay Hagan coming on board to support marriage equality is important.

    The Democrat from North Carolina is up for re-election next year. But N.C. is a state trending away from the Republicans and toward competitive (that is, in how many points more red or more blue is a given state; at the presidential level, N.C. is no longer advantageous for the GOP as other states from the Old Confrederacy like ex-bellwether Tennessee). Sorry if that seems that I'm interpreting this based on electability reasons, which would be cynical, but it is not avoidable. (I think Susan Collins, up for re-election next year in Maine, will become the second Republican to join in. Collins may be more at risk, frankly, if she doesn't sign on.)

    So, it's good that U.S. Sen. Kay Hagan (D-N.C.) is joining in … and every member of the party should be on board. The article notes that nine are still left (without having declared support): Arkansas's Mark Pryor; Delaware's Tom Carper; Florida's Bill Nelson; Indiana's Joe Donnelly; Louisiana's Mary Landrieu; North Dakota's Heidi Heitkamp; Pennsylvania's Bob Casey; South Dakota's Tim Johnson; and West Virginia's Joe Manchin.
    Last edited by CoolBlue71; March 27th, 2013 at 09:17 AM. Reason: I was initially having trouble providing a working link.

  2. #2
    JockBoy87
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    Re: U.S. Sen. Kay Hagan declares her support for gay marriage

    The first seven threads of CEP are about marriage equality, with another seven further down on the first page. I think we can keep these discussions to a few threads, such as the post you made here.

  3. #3
    JUB Addict CoolBlue71's Avatar
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    Re: U.S. Sen. Kay Hagan declares her support for gay marriage

    JockBoy87,

    Are you a moderator?

  4. #4
    JockBoy87
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    Re: U.S. Sen. Kay Hagan declares her support for gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by CoolBlue71 View Post
    JockBoy87,

    Are you a moderator?
    Am I wrong?

    If you were to post about every politician who came out for marriage equality in the last month it would take up the entire first page of CEP.

  5. #5
    JUB Addict CoolBlue71's Avatar
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    Re: U.S. Sen. Kay Hagan declares her support for gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by JockBoy87 View Post
    Am I wrong?

    If you were to post about every politician who came out for marriage equality in the last month it would take up the entire first page of CEP.
    Yes.

    I will add this: If there is a forum member who would like to create a thread (baring the specific topic name) which tracks elected or former politicians (or other figures) coming out in support of marriage equality, it can be someone other than me.

  6. #6
    GiancarloC
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    Re: U.S. Sen. Kay Hagan declares her support for gay marriage

    Actually, I DO THINK this deserves its own thread. Having a democrat endorsing gay marriage from a traditionally conservative state does deserve its own thread. This shows North Carolina is shifting. And it is indeed. In 2008, Obama managed to get the state, but only narrowly lost it in 2012. The urban centers are moving more towards democrats. It's very much the same story as Virginia, which has shifted towards the democrats.

  7. #7
    JUB Addict CoolBlue71's Avatar
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    Re: U.S. Sen. Kay Hagan declares her support for gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    Actually, I DO THINK this deserves its own thread. Having a democrat endorsing gay marriage from a traditionally conservative state does deserve its own thread. This shows North Carolina is shifting. And it is indeed. In 2008, Obama managed to get the state, but only narrowly lost it in 2012. The urban centers are moving more towards democrats. It's very much the same story as Virginia, which has shifted towards the democrats.
    Election margins for President Barack Obama were as follows:

    2008 President: D+7.26 (pickup) | 365 electoral votes
    2008 North Carolina: D+0.33 (pickup)

    2012 President: D+3.84 (hold) | 332 electoral votes
    2012 North Carolina: R+2.04 (pickup)

    Had the 44th president been re-elected with an increased national margin and likewise electoral-vote score, which has been applicable to all two-term-elected presidents except Woodrow Wilson (1912, 1916) and Barack Obama (2008, 2012), he would have carried with re-election the state of North Carolina.

    This is a politically critical state. Not quite the level of Virginia, the No. 1 best state (statewide margin vs. national margin), over the last two elections. Ditto that N.C. isn't on par with Colorado. But it's trending. It's trending away from being Core Republican to becoming more routinely Competitive. If Hillary Clinton does end up winning the Democratic nominee in 2016… Or if a different Democratic candidate wins the party nod in 2016… And it turns out that Democratic candidate performs better, and wins for the party a third straight victory and does so even better than the 2012 re-elected Obama, well N.C. will be a part of that map.

    So Kay Hagan, facing re-election next year, has taken a political risk. (In terms of how today's Democratic party operates with their ConservaDems, she has taken a political risk.) But, with this move it can also be a benefit to those residing in the Tar Heel State who will remember that she did that. Rather than her not move support for the LGBT, and their Bill of Rights, this can result in a better re-election outcome than some may otherwise anticipate. (Normally the midterms are won by the party opposite a sitting president. But 2002 was more favorable not to the Democrats but the Republicans, who won back majority control of the Senate. Four years earlier, the 1998 Republicans were so dismal in their midterms that their performance resulted in Newt Gingrich resigning his post as speaker of the House.)

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    Re: U.S. Sen. Kay Hagan declares her support for gay marriage

    Kay Hagan is indeed taking a risk here,so she deserves kudos for it even though she was late to the party.

  9. #9
    JUB Addict CoolBlue71's Avatar
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    Re: U.S. Sen. Kay Hagan declares her support for gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja108 View Post
    Kay Hagan is indeed taking a risk here,so she deserves kudos for it even though she was late to the party.
    What is taking so long for Tom Carper of Delaware?

    Is he considering his state a part of the south?


    Bob Casey, the pro-life Democrat of Pennsylvania (which, in the Keystone State, which is blue, is so insulting!), should already be on board.


    I think, of the remaining nine Senate Democrats, the following will come through in this order:

    1. Tom Carper (D-Delaware)
    2. Bill Nelson (D-Florida)
    3. Bob Casey (D-Pennsylvania)
    4. Joe Donnelly (D-Indiana)
    5. Tim Johnson (D-South Dakota)
    6. Mary Landrieu (D-Louisiana)
    7. Joe Manchin (D-West Virginia)
    8. Heidi Heitkamp (D-North Dakota)
    9. Mark Pryor (D-Arkansas)

  10. #10
    JockBoy87
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    Re: U.S. Sen. Kay Hagan declares her support for gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    Actually, I DO THINK this deserves its own thread. Having a democrat endorsing gay marriage from a traditionally conservative state does deserve its own thread. This shows North Carolina is shifting. And it is indeed. In 2008, Obama managed to get the state, but only narrowly lost it in 2012. The urban centers are moving more towards democrats. It's very much the same story as Virginia, which has shifted towards the democrats.
    We had Democratic senators just come out from Missouri and Montana, but where are their threads?

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    JUB Addict Ninja108's Avatar
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    Re: U.S. Sen. Kay Hagan declares her support for gay marriage

    Jon Tester is the senator who should have his own thread. Said it elsewhere and I'll say it here,Rob Portman is not the only senator with a gay son,Tester is as well.
    And he couldn't come out for full marriage equality until this week. Tester was NOT happy with Obama talking about gay marriage before the election,for fear it could cost him the election.
    Don't get me wrong,I know there are a couple of different factors that differ him from Portman but the fact remains Tester hasn't done much to get rid of the gay marriage ban in the state he represents either.
    As for the other senators,Mary Landrieu and Mark Pryor aren't going to say anything,period.

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    A Total Bottom mbamike's Avatar
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    Re: U.S. Sen. Kay Hagan declares her support for gay marriage

    Someone should as Senator Lindsey Graham about his true feeling on the subject. That guy needs to come out and be counted!

    Homophobia kills!

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    Re: U.S. Sen. Kay Hagan declares her support for gay marriage

    Btw,today in NOrth Carolina the Hispanic Outreach center created by a Democratic governer was shut down today. Keep that outreach going GOP!

  14. #14
    JUB Addict CoolBlue71's Avatar
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    Re: U.S. Sen. Kay Hagan declares her support for gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja108 View Post
    Btw,today in NOrth Carolina the Hispanic Outreach center created by a Democratic governer was shut down today. Keep that outreach going GOP!
    That was mentioned on Rachel Maddow's program.

    It doesn't surprise me.

  15. #15
    JUB Addict CoolBlue71's Avatar
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    Re: U.S. Sen. Kay Hagan declares her support for gay marriage

    Alaska's Lisa Murkowsi could be the next Senate Republican supportive of marriage equality.

    @ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...p_ref=politics

    @ http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...iage-evolving/
    Last edited by CoolBlue71; March 30th, 2013 at 12:38 AM.

  16. #16

    Re: U.S. Sen. Kay Hagan declares her support for gay marriage

    I'm amazed she may beat Susan Collins to the punch. She's supported every other gay rights issue and now represents a state with marriage equality.

  17. #17
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    Re: U.S. Sen. Kay Hagan declares her support for gay marriage

    Keep in mind even if she hints that she's coming around to the idea of same sex marriage,she's doing so in a deep red state.

  18. #18
    RazorzEdge88
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    Re: U.S. Sen. Kay Hagan declares her support for gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by scream4ever View Post
    I'm amazed she may beat Susan Collins to the punch. She's supported every other gay rights issue and now represents a state with marriage equality.
    I felt the same way until I read something recently that made sense to me: Maine has a much stronger Tea Party presence than one would assume. Their current governor Paul LePage is a Tea Party Republican. Collins is facing re-election in 2014, so she might well be terrified of a primary challenge. I'll be shocked if she doesn't come around on this by 2016, though. I doubt she wants to get left in the dust that much by the rest of her party's moderate wing.

    I'm still fucking burnt up about Bob Casey in PA. What the hell is he waiting for!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja108 View Post
    Keep in mind even if she hints that she's coming around to the idea of same sex marriage,she's doing so in a deep red state.
    If you're referring to Murkowski: Alaska has kind of an independent/libertarian bent, so it's not that astounding.

  19. #19
    JockBoy87
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    Re: U.S. Sen. Kay Hagan declares her support for gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by RazorzEdge88 View Post
    If you're referring to Murkowski: Alaska has kind of an independent/libertarian bent, so it's not that astounding.
    Alaska is also one of the least religious states.

  20. #20
    GiancarloC
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    Re: U.S. Sen. Kay Hagan declares her support for gay marriage

    Lets not give Alaska too much credit. They still passed a constitutional ban. And they gave us another political gem that keeps on giving... a certain one from Wasilla lol.

    So I wonder where Hawaii is... I always thought they would be one of those to push for full marriage equality.

  21. #21
    JockBoy87
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    Re: U.S. Sen. Kay Hagan declares her support for gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    They still passed a constitutional ban.
    As did California, if you recall.

    Alaska did so in 1998, the first one to take marriage out of the democratic process. The opposition ain't what she used to be, 51% now compared to 68% then.

    And they gave us another political gem that keeps on giving... a certain one from Wasilla lol.
    Ok. That's true. Every state has their annoying Republicans though... Darrel Issa ring a bell? We have Michael Steele.

    So I wonder where Hawaii is... I always thought they would be one of those to push for full marriage equality.
    Bills were introduced this year, but the deadline passed for a hearing.

    Hawaii has a unique constitutional amendment, also passed in 1998, that allows the legislature to ban or approve marriage equality. That's why you'll often hear either the 30 or 31 figure for state constitutional amendments.

    When DOMA is struck down, there will be a renewed push in Hawaii next year, or a special session this year. It is a civil union state, and it was passed on the premise that gays should have absolute equality. Well without federal recognition of civil unions there can't be material equality can there?

  22. #22
    RazorzEdge88
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    Re: U.S. Sen. Kay Hagan declares her support for gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    Lets not give Alaska too much credit. They still passed a constitutional ban.
    So did Colorado. That doesn't mean Alaska doesn't have a libertarian bent.

  23. #23
    GiancarloC
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    Re: U.S. Sen. Kay Hagan declares her support for gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by JockBoy87 View Post
    As did California, if you recall.
    That's a faulty comparison. Alaska doesn't have any forms of domestic partnerships or civil unions.

    When DOMA is struck down, there will be a renewed push in Hawaii next year, or a special session this year. It is a civil union state, and it was passed on the premise that gays should have absolute equality. Well without federal recognition of civil unions there can't be material equality can there?
    I'm pretty sure Hawaii will be one of the first to reconsider. Hawaii is a strongly democrat state, and I don't see why there won't be an effort. Plus, it's a certain someones home state as we all know (don't tell Donald Trump that lol).

    Well, as Justice Ginsburg said... even the same sex marriages occurring now are just skim milk marriages. So that's why DOMA has to go.

  24. #24
    RazorzEdge88
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    Re: U.S. Sen. Kay Hagan declares her support for gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    That's a faulty comparison. Alaska doesn't have any forms of domestic partnerships or civil unions.
    It's not a faulty comparison for his purposes. He's pointing out how even a state with more socially liberal tendencies can conceivably pass anti-gay legislation under certain circumstances.

  25. #25
    GiancarloC
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    Re: U.S. Sen. Kay Hagan declares her support for gay marriage

    It's a completely faulty comparison. California already had domestic partnerships. California is not like Alaska at all. i am not calling Alaska similar to Texas or Mississippi... but I don't get all these comments about this so called "libertarian" bent.

    Oh and Prop 8 only passed by a narrow margin. And California is much closer to having marriage equality than Alaska. I give Alaska... perhaps 3-4 years.

  26. #26
    JockBoy87
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    Re: U.S. Sen. Kay Hagan declares her support for gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    That's a faulty comparison. Alaska doesn't have any forms of domestic partnerships or civil unions.
    While Alaska has an amendment, it is an initiated statute state. Citizens could get civil unions on the ballot. I don't see why Alaskans Together doesn't try it. The fact that it is not as religious, and it is more difficult to organize opposition, should make such a law easy to pass in referendum.


    I'm pretty sure Hawaii will be one of the first to reconsider. Hawaii is a strongly democrat state, and I don't see why there won't be an effort. Plus, it's a certain someones home state as we all know (don't tell Donald Trump that lol).
    Yeah, it's pretty much inevitable there. I have not seen a single opinion as to why they stalled this year. Perhaps it is because of the court cases, and also that civil unions just passed there.

    Well, as Justice Ginsburg said... even the same sex marriages occurring now are just skim milk marriages. So that's why DOMA has to go.
    Once it does the floodgates will open.

  27. #27
    GiancarloC
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    Re: U.S. Sen. Kay Hagan declares her support for gay marriage

    Well... perhaps I'm mistaken about Alaska. Maybe not 3-4 years, maybe a bit less... but I just don't see marriage equality being legalized there any time soon. Maybe there is a shot at civil unions.
    Last edited by GiancarloC; March 30th, 2013 at 12:21 PM.

  28. #28
    JockBoy87
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    Re: U.S. Sen. Kay Hagan declares her support for gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    Well... perhaps I'm mistaken about Alaska. Maybe not 3-4 years, maybe a bit less... but I just don't see marriage equality being legalized there any time soon. Maybe there is a shot at civil unions.
    Well we all remember the way the Alaskan GOP contemptuously laughed at that proposal.

    I think some gay rights orgs are downright pusillanimous. Alaska could have domestic partnerships voted on if AT wanted it.

  29. #29
    JUB Addict Ninja108's Avatar
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    Re: U.S. Sen. Kay Hagan declares her support for gay marriage

    If DOMA is struck down,I expect the nine states that offer civil unions to see lawsuits filed. That's what it's so stupid for Prop 8 to be kicked down the road even though it looks like that is what is gonna happen.
    The bigots on the court know gay marriage is coming but they will due their best to make sure it doesn't happen in their lifetime.

  30. #30
    JockBoy87
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    Re: U.S. Sen. Kay Hagan declares her support for gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja108 View Post
    If DOMA is struck down,I expect the nine states that offer civil unions to see lawsuits filed. That's what it's so stupid for Prop 8 to be kicked down the road even though it looks like that is what is gonna happen.
    The bigots on the court know gay marriage is coming but they will due their best to make sure it doesn't happen in their lifetime.
    I think scream4ever knows what is going on with that better than I do. As far as I know, there are concurrent lawsuits going on in federal or state court in Hawaii, Utah, Michigan, Nevada, New Mexico, Illinois, and New Jersey. Four of those are full DP or civil union states.

  31. #31
    JUB Addict CoolBlue71's Avatar
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    Re: U.S. Sen. Kay Hagan declares her support for gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    It's a completely faulty comparison. California already had domestic partnerships. California is not like Alaska at all. i am not calling Alaska similar to Texas or Mississippi... but I don't get all these comments about this so called "libertarian" bent.

    Oh and Prop 8 only passed by a narrow margin. And California is much closer to having marriage equality than Alaska. I give Alaska... perhaps 3-4 years.
    Use my home state of Michigan as an example.

    In the Democratic presidential primaries of 2004, only Al Sharpton showed up right around voting day. Word was that John Kerry would win the state and good Democrats needed to make it official.

    In the general election, I wonder how many of those saying to get behind Kerry, because it was necessary to unseat President George W. Bush, voted against the LGBT and voted "yes" for a state constitutional amendment defining marriage as "between one man and one woman."

    John Kerry carried the state by close to 3.50%. That election-ballot proposal passed with a margin of about 20%. That couldn't have been done with 100 percent of Bush-supporters voting on that proposal.

    We cannot go back in time.

    So, I'd rather not get caught up in that.

    Alaska's Lisa Murkowski potentially becoming the second Senate Republican, after Ohio's Rob Portman, to get on board for marriage equality is great. Maine's Susan Collins was my prediction for No. 2. My guess is that she may be having an internal poll conducted, so the numbers can be run, in order to determine whether she should also "come out."

  32. #32

    Re: U.S. Sen. Kay Hagan declares her support for gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by RazorzEdge88 View Post
    I felt the same way until I read something recently that made sense to me: Maine has a much stronger Tea Party presence than one would assume. Their current governor Paul LePage is a Tea Party Republican. Collins is facing re-election in 2014, so she might well be terrified of a primary challenge. I'll be shocked if she doesn't come around on this by 2016, though. I doubt she wants to get left in the dust that much by the rest of her party's moderate wing.

    I'm still fucking burnt up about Bob Casey in PA. What the hell is he waiting for!?
    The Tea Party in Maine is on life support. They lost both chambers of the state legislature and Paul Lepage is one of the most unpopular governors in the country.

  33. #33
    GiancarloC
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    Re: U.S. Sen. Kay Hagan declares her support for gay marriage

    When is LePage up for election? Someone needs to boot him out... that guy is a nutcase... I've read some of the things he said, especially about transgendered people... Lepage is a psycho.

  34. #34
    JUB Addict CoolBlue71's Avatar
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    Re: U.S. Sen. Kay Hagan declares her support for gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    When is [Maine Gov. Paul] LePage up for election? Someone needs to boot him out... that guy is a nutcase... I've read some of the things he said, especially about transgendered people... LePage is a psycho.
    ^ 2014.

    According to Wikipedia.org, gubernatorial elections are scheduled for 2014 in the following states:


    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2014 Gubernatorial Elections — States Scheduled.png 
Views:	15 
Size:	38.0 KB 
ID:	941876


    Color Code:
    Light red: Term-limited Republican | Dark red: Incumbent Republican | Light blue: Term-limited or Retiring Democrat | Dark blue: Incumbent Democrat | Green: Incumbent Independent | Light Gray: no election

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    JUB Addict Ninja108's Avatar
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    Re: U.S. Sen. Kay Hagan declares her support for gay marriage

    Don't be shocked to see PA,MI,ME,and possibly WI be blue after that. They are very,very,VERY unpopular governers. Rick Snyder in MI is almost sure to be gone due to his anti-union bill.

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    Re: U.S. Sen. Kay Hagan declares her support for gay marriage

    Pennsylvania's senior U.S. senator Bob Casey, who unseated Rick Santorum in the 2006 midterms elections wave (for the Democrats) and was re-elected for a second full term last November, is on board for marriage equality.


    Bob Casey Backs Gay Marriage

    By Sabrina Siddiqui
    April 1, 2013 | http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_2994199.html

    Sen. Bob Casey (D-Pa.) announced his support for gay marriage Monday, at last joining the growing number of Democrats to embrace marriage equality over the last week.

    "After much deliberation and after reviewing the legal, public policy and civil-rights questions presented, I support marriage equality for same-sex couples and believe that DOMA should be repealed," Casey said in an exclusive statement to the Philadelphia Gay News.

    "I began to focus on the issue of same-sex marriage much more intensely than I had before,” he added, reflecting on the Supreme Court's consideration of landmark gay marriage cases on California's Proposition 8 and the federal Defense of Marriage Act.

  37. #37
    GiancarloC
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    Re: U.S. Sen. Kay Hagan declares her support for gay marriage; others follow suit

    Good. I wonder if Pennsylvania will move towards marriage equality. I believe they have ban that was based on a statue, rather than one that was based on a voted amendment. Could be easier to change.

  38. #38
    JockBoy87
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    Re: U.S. Sen. Kay Hagan declares her support for gay marriage; others follow suit

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    Good. I wonder if Pennsylvania will move towards marriage equality. I believe they have ban that was based on a statue, rather than one that was based on a voted amendment. Could be easier to change.
    It is a statute, but those are Pennsylvania Republicans. The state politics have more in common with Ohio than New York.

    There is good reason to believe PA will never have marriage equality without dramatic GOP change. Pennsylvania has neither workplace discrimination protections nor domestic partnerships, both strong indicators of eventual support of marriage equality.

    There is not a single state with partnership arrangements that did not have workplace protections first, and no state ever passed marriage equality into law without them either. I'd say that's a pretty strong trend.

  39. #39
    GiancarloC
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    Re: U.S. Sen. Kay Hagan declares her support for gay marriage; others follow suit

    Thanks. I wasn't too familiar with that state... I guess there really needs to be serious change when it comes to social policy in both Ohio and Pennsylvania.

  40. #40
    JockBoy87
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    Re: U.S. Sen. Kay Hagan declares her support for gay marriage; others follow suit

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    Thanks. I wasn't too familiar with that state... I guess there really needs to be serious change when it comes to social policy in both Ohio and Pennsylvania.
    Thankfully Ohio citizens can bypass the legislature. They are collecting signatures in that state to get a repeal done this year, and have until July 3 to collect some 300k.

  41. #41
    JUB Addict Ninja108's Avatar
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    Re: U.S. Sen. Kay Hagan declares her support for gay marriage; others follow suit

    It's nice to see these Democratic senators on board but such a pity they had to wait to see which way the political wins blew before making this choice.
    We've come a long way since 96 but while DOMA was a Republician made creation,many Democrats jumped on board too.
    And Jockboy's point about PA is sadly noted. Republicians in PA or any state like it are NEVER going to drop the idea that gay marriage should be illigal,period.
    Last edited by Ninja108; April 2nd, 2013 at 02:29 AM.

  42. #42
    JockBoy87
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    Re: U.S. Sen. Kay Hagan declares her support for gay marriage; others follow suit

    ^^^ I wouldn't say never, it's just unclear when it's going to happen or how. They could all go at once, or just half of them, or a gradual shift. It could be tomorrow. It could be in 20 years.

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    Re: U.S. Sen. Kay Hagan declares her support for gay marriage; others follow suit

    I would say even though polls say one thing,I've sometimes learned not to trust them. People may say one thing about gay marriage on the phone or ona survery and quite another thing in the voting box.
    As for two years or 20 years..the Supreme Court is kicking the can down the road and they know it.

  44. #44
    JockBoy87
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    Re: U.S. Sen. Kay Hagan declares her support for gay marriage; others follow suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja108 View Post
    I would say even though polls say one thing,I've sometimes learned not to trust them. People may say one thing about gay marriage on the phone or ona survery and quite another thing in the voting box.
    As for two years or 20 years..the Supreme Court is kicking the can down the road and they know it.
    The Washington Post called the vote in Maryland one month before the election. Four years ago, you were correct, but today is different.

  45. #45
    JUB Addict Ninja108's Avatar
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    Re: U.S. Sen. Kay Hagan declares her support for gay marriage; others follow suit

    I guess..I still get leery when I see polls saying something. I never though Prop 8 would pass..and look what happened.

  46. #46
    JockBoy87
    Guest

    Re: U.S. Sen. Kay Hagan declares her support for gay marriage; others follow suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja108 View Post
    I guess..I still get leery when I see polls saying something. I never though Prop 8 would pass..and look what happened.
    That's what I meant by four years ago..

    I never thought it would pass in Maryland, but the WaPo predicted it would by 52%, which it did.

  47. #47

    Re: U.S. Sen. Kay Hagan declares her support for gay marriage; others follow suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja108 View Post
    I guess..I still get leery when I see polls saying something. I never though Prop 8 would pass..and look what happened.
    I think most people didn't, but we learned our lesson and won't make the same mistakes again.

  48. #48
    RazorzEdge88
    Guest

    Re: U.S. Sen. Kay Hagan declares her support for gay marriage; others follow suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja108 View Post
    I guess..I still get leery when I see polls saying something. I never though Prop 8 would pass..and look what happened.
    There were some polls showing Prop 8 ahead very shortly before the election.

    If you can separate the good from the bad, you can make a reasonable determination as to a likely outcome.

  49. #49
    JUB Addict CoolBlue71's Avatar
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    Re: U.S. Sen. Kay Hagan declares her support for gay marriage; others follow suit

    Mark Kirk becomes second GOP senator to back gay marriage

    By Aaron Blake
    April 2, 2013 | http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...-gay-marriage/

    A second Republican senator has announced his support for gay marriage, with Sen. Mark Kirk (R-Illinois) joining Sen. Rob Portman (R-Ohio).

    Kirk, who recently returned to the Senate after suffering a significant stroke, suggested in a statement that his near-death experience has changed his perspective.

    “When I climbed the Capitol steps in January, I promised myself that I would return to the Senate with an open mind and greater respect for others,” he said. “Same-sex couples should have the right to civil marriage. Our time on this earth is limited, I know that better than most. Life comes down to who you love and who loves you back — government has no place in the middle.”

  50. #50
    JUB Addict CoolBlue71's Avatar
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    Re: U.S. Sen. Kay Hagan declares her support for gay marriage; others follow suit

    GOP Sen. Mark Kirk backs same-sex marriage

    By Lucy Madison
    April 2, 2013 | http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-...-sex-marriage/

    Joining an increasingly large chorus of lawmakers and voters both, Sen. Mark Kirk, R-Ill., announced Tuesday his support for same-sex marriage -- making him the second Republican senator in a month to come out in favor of marriage equality.

    There are now only seven sitting Senate Democrats who still oppose same-sex marriage: Sens. Joe Donnelly of Indiana, Heidi Heitkamp of North Dakota, Tim Johnson of South Dakota, Mary Landrieu of Louisiana, Joe Manchin of West Virginia, Bill Nelson of Florida, and Mark Pryor of Arkansas.

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