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    Italian Supreme Court decides today - Amanda Knox, retrial?

    The prosecutors filed an appeal against Amanda Knox's 2011 acquittal. At this moment, there is a hearing in Rome that stared 6 hours ago and a decision will be made today if there should be a retrial or not. If not, the case is over, Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito will be officialy cleared of the murder of Meredith Kercher. If yes, there will be a retrial in absentia.

    Hopefully all goes well and both Knox and Sollecito will finally be able to move on with their lives, leaving all that "Italian justice system" mess behind them.

    Live tweets from the courtroom:
    https://twitter.com/andreavogt

  2. #2
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Italian Supreme Court decides today - Amanda Knox, retrial?

    Italy's justice system needs serious reforms... but I doubt that'll ever happen. As far as Knox, I am not completely convinced of her innocence. Still, what a mess... prosecutors mishandled the case badly. It was handled so badly, any result from it would have been improper.

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    Re: Italian Supreme Court decides today - Amanda Knox, retrial?

    Italian justice system sucks, that's for sure. It's not the first case that was mishandled, there are more. Tons of it.

    As for Knox and Sollecito, court appointed independent experts listed 54 procedural mistakes made by the forensic police during the gathering of evidence, incl DNA, the witnessess were deemed unreliable, the hard discs from Amanda and Raffaele's computers were destroyed by a mistake when the police tried to get some info from them,there was no translator for Knox during her 8 hours interrogation, no one suggested lawyering up to Knox and Sollecito while interrogated...the list goes on and on. As for their guilt - there's no motive, no murder weapon attached to either one of them, no fingerprints, no DNA, no footprints, palmprints, hair, saliva. Nothing. The third convicted person, Rudy Guede, left his DNA inside and on the victim, on her clothes, on her purse (with empty wallet) and his shoeprints/fingerprints in her blood. It's rather clear that they weren't there, if you ask me.

    The verdict is expected in an hour from now.
    Last edited by DonnieDarko; March 25th, 2013 at 12:08 PM.

  4. #4
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Italian Supreme Court decides today - Amanda Knox, retrial?

    I'm just not buying that Knox was completely void of guilt... I think she had a part in it. We'll have to wait and see.

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    Re: Italian Supreme Court decides today - Amanda Knox, retrial?

    Well, there was speculation that Knox might have been there during or shortly after the murder, but it wasn't proven. All the evidence points at one person, Guede.

    I think that Knox and Sollecito got themselves into trouble beacuse they had this, "hey, we're in the middle of a murder investigation, let's fool around, make the best of it". As stupid and immature as it sounds, it's still something kids do. I think they didn't realize how badly it would turn out for them. Also, I think the early reports are to blame for people saying she must've been involved somehow. They all said how Knox is a she devil, a careless bitch that killed her roommate for nothing. Then the forensics came and cleared her, but no one really cared, all they knew was that she's Foxy Knoxy, the slut who killed her beautiful friend.

    The verdict was postponed until Tuesday morning.
    Last edited by DonnieDarko; March 25th, 2013 at 02:22 PM.

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    Re: Italian Supreme Court decides today - Amanda Knox, retrial?

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    As far as Knox, I am not completely convinced of her innocence.
    Neither am I.

    She has lied blatantly about so many aspects of this case, and her behavior has been bizarre.


    Quote Originally Posted by DonnieDarko View Post
    Italian justice system sucks, that's for sure. It's not the first case that was mishandled, there are more. Tons of it.
    All justice systems suck. It is the nature of "justice." While there are particular aspects of the Italian system that are problematic - like the length of time it can take for a case to come to trial - there are particular aspects of EVERY nation's justice system that are problematic. Italy's system is commensurate with western justice systems generally.


    Quote Originally Posted by DonnieDarko View Post
    As for Knox and Sollecito, court appointed independent experts listed 54 procedural mistakes made by the forensic police during the gathering of evidence, incl DNA
    Name a murder investigation anywhere (especially an extraordinarily complex one) that is not chock full of arguable procedural mistakes.


    Quote Originally Posted by DonnieDarko View Post
    the witnessess were deemed unreliable
    Indeed. Knox and Sollecito WERE the witnesses - at least until their constant lying (about everything!) made them suspects.


    Quote Originally Posted by DonnieDarko View Post
    the hard discs from Amanda and Raffaele's computers were destroyed by a mistake when the police tried to get some info from them
    Only Sollecito's hard drive was destroyed by a mistake, but after valuable information was retrieved from it.


    Quote Originally Posted by DonnieDarko View Post
    there was no translator for Knox during her 8 hours interrogation
    There was no translator, because she speaks Italian fairly well. And she was not being interviewed as a suspect, she was supposed to be a witness.


    Quote Originally Posted by DonnieDarko View Post
    no one suggested lawyering up to Knox and Sollecito while interrogated...
    That's because they were being interviewed as witnesses, not suspects. Witnesses in all western justice systems generally are not represented by counsel when they give statements.

    This did become a problem later on, when Knox fell under suspicion herself. However, because she was not represented by counsel when she gave her statement, the Italian Court of Cassation ruled that nothing that she said during her questioning could be used against her in court.


    Quote Originally Posted by DonnieDarko View Post
    As for their guilt - there's no motive, no murder weapon attached to either one of them, no fingerprints, no DNA, no footprints, palmprints, hair, saliva. Nothing.
    This is all very true. There is no physical evidence of guilt by Knox or Sollecito, and no clear motive. And that's problematic, of course, in a determination of guilt.

    What evidence exists rests with their statements and behavior. Knox claimed that she was present in the apartment when her employer, Patrick Lumumba, had sex with Kercher and then murdered Kercher. That's a remarkable claim which would have made her an accessory to murder, if it had been true. Of course, Knox also claimed she spent the hours of the murder at Sollecito's apartment (a claim Sollecito initially supported, then later denied).

    Why did she try to frame an innocent man, especially when she was not herself under suspicion at the time?

    It's a bizarre case, primarily because Knox's testimony is so schizophrenic and contradictory.


    Quote Originally Posted by DonnieDarko View Post
    The third convicted person, Rudy Guede, left his DNA inside and on the victim, on her clothes, on her purse (with empty wallet) and his shoeprints/fingerprints in her blood. It's rather clear that they weren't there, if you ask me.
    There is no question of Guede's guilt. The evidence against him was substantial. He was convicted by that horribly incompetent Italian justice system of which you complain, and he is serving time.


    Quote Originally Posted by DonnieDarko View Post
    Well, there was speculation that Knox might have been there during or shortly after the murder, but it wasn't proven.
    There was speculation because that's what Knox herself claimed.


    Quote Originally Posted by DonnieDarko View Post
    Also, I think the early reports are to blame for people saying she must've been involved somehow. They all said how Knox is a she devil, a careless bitch that killed her roommate for nothing. Then the forensics came and cleared her, but no one really cared, all they knew was that she's Foxy Knoxy, the slut who killed her beautiful friend.
    The media pounced on Knox aggressively and unfairly, because her behavior has been so inexplicably weird. She did splits in the police station. She and Sollecito were photographed kissing passionately outside her apartment, even as forensic investigators were passing around them. She was demonized early on by the tabloid media because she is such a strange person.

    I have no idea whether Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito had anything whatsoever to do with the murder of Kercher. My gut suspicion is that Knox is just batshit crazy and brought down suspicion upon herself and Sollecito by virtue of her disturbing and provocative behavior, and her inability to tell the truth.

    I am not very satisfied with any system of justice that mankind has ever devised. They are all horrible. But, I don't think this case represents a particular miscarriage of justice, or a failure of the Italian system (which, by the way, happens to be the model upon which all western systems of justice are based). It's just a really complex case, with really strange actors, who refuse (for whatever reason) to tell us what really happened.
    Last edited by T-Rexx; March 25th, 2013 at 07:09 PM.

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    Re: Italian Supreme Court decides today - Amanda Knox, retrial?

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    Neither am I.

    She has lied blatantly about so many aspects of this case, and her behavior has been bizarre.
    She lied during her interrogation, she was alone with 10 officers and told she was goin to jail for decades.




    Indeed. Knox and Sollecito WERE the witnesses - at least until their constant lying (about everything!) made them suspects.
    They didn't lie about everything. You, obviously, didn't read judge Hellmann's ruling. Did you?




    Only Sollecito's hard drive was destroyed by a mistake, but after valuable information was retrieved from it.
    That's incorrct. Three hardrives were destroyed, no valuable information was retrieved, apart from Sollecitos computer. The other two were completely destroyed.




    There was no translator, because she speaks Italian fairly well. And she was not being interviewed as a suspect, she was supposed to be a witness.
    Again, youre not well informed. Amanda Knox was arrested 6 weeks after coming to Perugia. Her Italian was far from good, she was learning it. She didn't speak Italian back then, She even had a translator in 2009, when she was on the trial for the first time. Plus, she was a suspect on the second interrogation on the night on Nov 5th/6th.




    That's because they were being interviewed as witnesses, not suspects. Witnesses in all western justice systems generally are not represented by counsel when they give statements.
    No, that's not true. Both were suspects after midnight on NOV 5th/6th. The prosecutor came and confirmed.

    This did become a problem later on, when Knox fell under suspicion herself. However, because she was not represented by counsel when she gave her statement, the Italian Court of Cassation ruled that nothing that she said during her questioning could be used against her in court.
    That's actually correct, but has nothing to do with them not having a lawyer earlier.


    What evidence exists rests with their statements and behavior. Knox claimed that she was present in the apartment when her employer, Patrick Lumumba, had sex with Kercher and then murdered Kercher. That's a remarkable claim which would have made her an accessory to murder, if it had been true. Of course, Knox also claimed she spent the hours of the murder at Sollecito's apartment (a claim Sollecito initially supported, then later denied).

    Why did she try to frame an innocent man, especially when she was not herself under suspicion at the time?

    It's a bizarre case, primarily because Knox's testimony is so schizophrenic and contradictory.
    The police suggested Patrick Lumumba, the police told her she was covering for someone, the police told her she was going to jail for 30 years, the police didn't provide translator or a lawyer, the police hit her, the police did not provide foor or drinks for 8 hours that night. Here you go, isn't it enough to lie your way out of the nasty police interrogation when you do not understand most of it and you're alone?




    She and Sollecito were photographed kissing passionately outside her apartment, even as forensic investigators were passing around them.
    Did you ever kiss someone passionetely? If it looked like Knox's and Sollecito's kiss, then I think you should get ome lesson. Maybe I can help? There was nothing passionate about that kiss, go to Youtube.

  8. #8
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Italian Supreme Court decides today - Amanda Knox, retrial?

    And where are your sources, donnie? For any of that? I honestly am not buying that Knox is innocent and had nothing to do with it. But since the authorities messed up this case so badly, we may never know. Unless the Italian Supreme Court decides on a retrial. Personally I hope they do.

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    JUB Addict T-Rexx's Avatar
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    Re: Italian Supreme Court decides today - Amanda Knox, retrial?

    Quote Originally Posted by DonnieDarko View Post
    She lied during her interrogation, she was alone with 10 officers and told she was goin to jail for decades.
    Knox only made those claims about her questioning after she became a suspect, and after she tried to retract the testimony she had previously given to the police. She has a propensity for making up stories that incriminate her. She didn't seem to realize that her first story about Lumumba made her an accessory to murder; nor did she seem to understand that it is a crime to falsely accuse people. Her defense is that she didn't lie of her own volition - those evil police forced her to give false testimony. Yeah, right.

    She also said the police slapped her, held her for hours, withheld food and water from her, and prevented her from relieving herself. Apparently, the Gestapo have taken control of the carabinieri.

    This could not have happened in Germany or Britain, of course. Northern people are civilized. Only a southern European police force could be so malevolent and unprofessional. (Too bad GWB is not still president. He would just attack Italy and install a professional government.)


    Quote Originally Posted by DonnieDarko View Post
    They didn't lie about everything. You, obviously, didn't read judge Hellmann's ruling. Did you?
    Hard to know about what Knox told the truth, since she gave so many conflicting stories. She met Lumumba on a basketball court, brought him to the apartment, and waited while he had sex with Kercher and then killed her. No, wait - she was with Sollecito in his apartment the whole time. No wait, she can't remember where she was because the police were so mean to her it destroyed her memory.

    Amanda Knox is an innocent angel. This crime was committed by the police!


    Quote Originally Posted by DonnieDarko View Post
    Again, youre not well informed. Amanda Knox was arrested 6 weeks after coming to Perugia. Her Italian was far from good, she was learning it. She didn't speak Italian back then,
    She studied linguistics for years prior to going to Italy, and she spoke Italian well enough to work in a bar there.

    But, I would be amazed if her questioning was not done mostly in English. Everybody there speaks English, and their English is always better than your Italian.


    Quote Originally Posted by DonnieDarko View Post
    She even had a translator in 2009, when she was on the trial for the first time.
    That was a formality. The Italians were just trying to pretend they are as professional as the Germans would be.


    Quote Originally Posted by DonnieDarko View Post
    The police suggested Patrick Lumumba, the police told her she was covering for someone, the police told her she was going to jail for 30 years, the police didn't provide translator or a lawyer, the police hit her, the police did not provide foor or drinks for 8 hours that night. Here you go, isn't it enough to lie your way out of the nasty police interrogation when you do not understand most of it and you're alone?
    Yes, the police forced her to claim that she met her boss on a basketball court, brought him back to her apartment, and waited while he had sex with Kercher and then killed her. The police made up that story and fed it to this poor, sweet girl while they tortured her mercilessly. They did this because they didn't want to know the truth - they just wanted to convict Knox of something because they didn't like her.


    Quote Originally Posted by DonnieDarko View Post
    Did you ever kiss someone passionetely?
    Not in the middle of a crime scene, I haven't. And not after just learning that my housemate had been murdered.
    Last edited by T-Rexx; March 26th, 2013 at 12:49 AM.

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    Re: Italian Supreme Court decides today - Amanda Knox, retrial?

    Badly mishandled cases in foreign courts or cases involving "famous" people are probably the only cases one hears about in the media. So I would not jump to conclusions about the Italian justice system just because of the Knox case. Although Italy is not considered to have one of the better justice systems in (western) Europe.

    Regarding the case itself, why would Knox constantly lie if she had nothing to hide? It seems to me as if she was largely successful in destroying/hiding all evidence that links her directly to the crime. She should probably be acquitted because of lack of evidence, but I have serious doubts about her innocence.

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    Re: Italian Supreme Court decides today - Amanda Knox, retrial?

    And my local news report that there will indeed be a retrial. Good!

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    Re: Italian Supreme Court decides today - Amanda Knox, retrial?

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    And where are your sources, donnie? For any of that? I honestly am not buying that Knox is innocent and had nothing to do with it. But since the authorities messed up this case so badly, we may never know. Unless the Italian Supreme Court decides on a retrial. Personally I hope they do.
    My sources? Years of reading about the case. Official files, documents, judges rulings. The latest report said that there is nothing that ties them to the crime scene. That's enough.

    It wasn't even a case of reasonable doubt, I'm not sure if people are aware. The judge said specifically - they did not commit this crime, they're innocent.

    And yes, The Supreme Court ordered a retrial. Good. It's pointless, though. There was nothing that tied them to the crime scene and it will remain this way.

    In the meantime, please read this:
    http://knoxdnareport.wordpress.com/

    http://hellmannreport.wordpress.com/

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    Re: Italian Supreme Court decides today - Amanda Knox, retrial?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tengilethos View Post
    Badly mishandled cases in foreign courts or cases involving "famous" people are probably the only cases one hears about in the media. So I would not jump to conclusions about the Italian justice system just because of the Knox case. Although Italy is not considered to have one of the better justice systems in (western) Europe.

    Regarding the case itself, why would Knox constantly lie if she had nothing to hide? It seems to me as if she was largely successful in destroying/hiding all evidence that links her directly to the crime. She should probably be acquitted because of lack of evidence, but I have serious doubts about her innocence.
    Constantly lying? When? Where?
    Knox was set free, beacuse there is no evidence. Simple as that.

    As to destroying - what do you mean? Are you aware that the prosecution's experts said there is no sign of a cleanup? Nothing that suggest anyone was attempting to clean after the crime.

    A retrial is a good thing, after all. It will, once again, show that they were not involved.

  14. #14

    Re: Italian Supreme Court decides today - Amanda Knox, retrial?

    I was never sold on her innocence, to tell the truth. I doubt she'll be extradited though.
    Only government can take perfectly good paper, cover it with perfectly good ink and make the combination worthless.

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    Re: Italian Supreme Court decides today - Amanda Knox, retrial?

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post

    Amanda Knox is an innocent angel. This crime was committed by the police!


    But, I would be amazed if her questioning was not done mostly in English. Everybody there speaks English, and their English is always better than your Italian.

    So, do you wanna talk about the case or do you just prefere to write nonsense?

    Amanda had one story all along, which said, she spent the night with Sollecito. It was after her fifth interrogation (in five days) that she changed her story. And why did she do that? She had an sms on her phone from Lumumba, to which she responded in BROKEN Italian - btw, it's something that confirms she didn't know the language that well. That was when the police became fixated on Lumumba and her. Later on, minutes after the interrogation ended, surprise surprise, Knox came up with a statement saying that she's not sure of what was said during it. She had significant doubts and wanted to inform the police about it. Well, she was alone, not yelled at, not slapped and could actually think clearly of what happened. That was when she changed her story for the third time and came back to her original alibi, that she was with Sollecito. There is activity on Sollecito's pc that shows human's actions around 21:14. Guede stated he was at the cottage around 21:00. How's that?How is it possible that someone was back at Sollecito's and both Knox and Sollecito were at the cottage with Guede killing Meredith? Give me a break. The case is so obvious.

    As to studies - she never learned Italian, please check your facts. She couldn't speak Italian, she couldn't write Italian. By the time she was arrested, it was her sixth week there. Even if she spoke little Italian (which she did), it still wouldn't be enough to understand what was going on when there were 10 people in the room with her, talking fast and using all kinds of words and not ciao, bene, prego or buona serata.

    The police didn't speak English and you can't be serious to think they should or would interrogate her in English. It's not a tea meeting, you know? It was an interrogation, beacuse someone was killed.
    Last edited by DonnieDarko; March 26th, 2013 at 10:14 AM.

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    Re: Italian Supreme Court decides today - Amanda Knox, retrial?

    Quote Originally Posted by Durango95 View Post
    I was never sold on her innocence, to tell the truth. I doubt she'll be extradited though.
    Her appearance at the retrial isn't obligatory. Then, if convicted at the retrial (which will never happen), the defense will appeal to the Supreme Court again, then if the SC upholds the guilty verdicts (again, not gonna happen), then Italy will probably ask for extradition. Legal experts say that there is a chance that Italy won't do it and if they do, the US won't send her back.

    I urge everyone to read both judge Hellmann's report about his ruling and independent experts report about the DNA evidence in the case. After this lecture, it's simply impossible to think they're guilty. Both documents can be found here:
    http://knoxdnareport.wordpress.com/
    http://hellmannreport.wordpress.com/
    Last edited by DonnieDarko; March 26th, 2013 at 10:12 AM.

  17. #17
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Italian Supreme Court decides today - Amanda Knox, retrial?

    Quote Originally Posted by DonnieDarko View Post
    My sources? Years of reading about the case. Official files, documents, judges rulings. The latest report said that there is nothing that ties them to the crime scene. That's enough.

    It wasn't even a case of reasonable doubt, I'm not sure if people are aware. The judge said specifically - they did not commit this crime, they're innocent.

    And yes, The Supreme Court ordered a retrial. Good. It's pointless, though. There was nothing that tied them to the crime scene and it will remain this way.

    In the meantime, please read this:
    http://knoxdnareport.wordpress.com/

    http://hellmannreport.wordpress.com/
    And two blog websites prove it all? Give me a break.

    She is going to retrial... and hopefully will be convicted this time around. You have absolutely no evidence for anything you have stated in this state.

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    Re: Italian Supreme Court decides today - Amanda Knox, retrial?

    Quote Originally Posted by DonnieDarko View Post
    So, do you wanna talk about the case or do you just prefere to write nonsense?
    I believe it is you who is claiming the Italian police fabricated a case against Lumumba by forcing a poor, sweet girl to make up stories about him.


    Quote Originally Posted by DonnieDarko View Post
    Amanda had one story all along, which said, she spent the night with Sollecito. It was after her fifth interrogation (in five days) that she changed her story. And why did she do that? She had an sms on her phone from Lumumba, to which she responded in BROKEN Italian - btw, it's something that confirms she didn't know the language that well. That was when the police became fixated on Lumumba and her. Later on, minutes after the interrogation ended, surprise surprise, Knox came up with a statement saying that she's not sure of what was said during it. She had significant doubts and wanted to inform the police about it. Well, she was alone, not yelled at, not slapped and could actually think clearly of what happened. That was when she changed her story for the third time and came back to her original alibi, that she was with Sollecito. There is activity on Sollecito's pc that shows human's actions around 21:14. Guede stated he was at the cottage around 21:00. How's that?How is it possible that someone was back at Sollecito's and both Knox and Sollecito were at the cottage with Guede killing Meredith? Give me a break. The case is so obvious.
    Since you know what happened that night, you should send your information to Amanda Knox in Seattle.

    Because she claims not to know.


    Quote Originally Posted by DonnieDarko View Post
    The police didn't speak English and you can't be serious to think they should or would interrogate her in English. It's not a tea meeting, you know? It was an interrogation, beacuse someone was killed.
    I have spoken to Italian police several times. And they always insist on using English.
    Last edited by T-Rexx; March 26th, 2013 at 11:56 AM.

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    Re: Italian Supreme Court decides today - Amanda Knox, retrial?

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    And two blog websites prove it all? Give me a break.

    She is going to retrial... and hopefully will be convicted this time around. You have absolutely no evidence for anything you have stated in this state.
    No, you should give me a break. Did you even clicked the links?

    These are not blog sites, [Text: Removed], these are translated official court documents that set free Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito. Do I have to repeat? Official Court Documents Translated From Italian To English. Not some blog sites. Go back and read them, then we can talk.

    What evidence do I have to have? I repeated the judge's words from the appeal trial. These are their words, not mine. She's innocent.
    Last edited by opinterph; March 29th, 2013 at 11:15 AM. Reason: removed personal insult

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    Re: Italian Supreme Court decides today - Amanda Knox, retrial?

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    I believe it is you who is claiming the Italian police fabricated a case against Lumumba by forcing a poor, sweet girl to make up stories about him.




    Since you know what happened that night, you should send your information to Amanda Knox in Seattle.

    Because she claims not to know.




    I have spoken to Italian police several times. And they always insist on using English.
    No, no. We should make something clear. It is not me who says the police fabricated something. I'm quoting judge Hellmann's words from his official motivation report (links above).

    I have spoken to Italian police also. And?

    It wasn't a ticket affair that Italian police can explain in broken English to some tourists. It was murder interrogation and for most of the time, there was no translator. I refuse to believe, and it was never confirmed, that a single police officer in Perugia's murder squad that was on duty that night, had English skills that were enough to handle an all night interrogation in that language.

    She had an interpreter during her first trial that's how bad her Italian was (even after two years in jail) and not one person of law (incl prosecutors, judges, lawyers, civil parties) invovled in the trial wanted to use English to make it easy for her. Therefore claiming the interrogation was held in English is simply, at least, funny.

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    Re: Italian Supreme Court decides today - Amanda Knox, retrial?

    The retrial doesn't even matter. The US will never allow her extradition if she's found guilty anyways.

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    Re: Italian Supreme Court decides today - Amanda Knox, retrial?

    From reports in Italy, no one knows if Italy would aks for extradition if Knox is convicted. Other reports, even from hate sites(against Knox and Sollecito), are saying that there is a good chance the appeal's verdict will be innocent, again.

    As to judge Hellmann, who cleared both Knox and Sollecito back in 2011, he yesterday granted quite interesting interview:
    Claudio Pratillo Hellmann is a judge in retirement. Not just any judge: on 3rd October 2011 he had read out the verdict (annulled the day before yesterday by the Supreme Court) in which Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito were acquitted for not have committed the murder of Meredith Kercher.

    [Quoted Text: Truncated] Editoriale Libero S.r.l. - SocietÓ Unipersonale: Tutti i diritti riservati

    Source Link (English translation): http://injusticeinperugia.blogspot.c...anda-knox.html
    Last edited by opinterph; March 29th, 2013 at 01:46 PM. Reason: truncated excessive quote from external source; added source link; Refer to CE&P Posting Guidelines

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    Re: Italian Supreme Court decides today - Amanda Knox, retrial?

    I'm bumping this thread because yet another Amanda Knox appeal is coming to an end. On Monday the prosecution will present their closing arguments, on Tuesday civil parties. Amanda Knox's and Raffaele Sollecito's defense teams will have their say on Decmeber 13 and 14th with rebuttals on January 9th and delibarations followed by vedrict on January 10th.

    This appeal started on Spetember 30th with leading judge allowing few tests that were not done in last appeal, that was annulled by the Supreme Court of Italy.

    They heard a witness that no one cared about and his testimony was deemed as unreliable, however he said that his brother killed Meredith Kercher with another man and that both Amanda Knox and Sollecito were not there. Also, the judge ordered yet another DNA test on the knife that was considered a murder weapon in 2009 trial(conviction for both). At the appeal in 2011 (where Knox and Sollecito were acquitted and released; acquittal said - completely innocent - there are two types of acquittals in Italy - 1.Innocent, 2.Not enough evidence) independent experts hired by the judge said the police made 54 mistakes during the investigation and DNA gathering, therefore the only two pieces of evidence that ever tied Knox and Sollecito to the crime, were completely demolished. As Ive said, at this new appeal, they tested the knife again (which Knox used for cooking at her boyfriend house) and the results were that there was no DNA of the victim, Merdith Kercher on the knife or of the knife owner, Raffaele Sollecito or another person, Rudy Guede,that is convicted of this crime and, rightly so, is in jail. The DNA test revealed DNA of Amanda Knox, no other trace was detected.

    Here are recent articles if anyone is interested:
    http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2...rt-tells-court

    http://abcnews.go.com/International/...ry?id=20738813

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/1...n_4224727.html


    And here is a site fighting for justice for Amanda, Raffaele (clearly innocent) and for Meredith Kercher. You can find there great articles, crime scene pictures and videos, recent news, court documents and many more.

    http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/RecentNews.html

    Lastly, here is a link to Amanda Knox's site and a blog.
    http://www.amandaknox.com/

    Hopefully, the trial will end up once again with acquitalls for both Knox and Sollecito. However, the experts are saying that the outcome of this trial is extremely hard to guess, as there were just 4 hearings and the judges were rather neutral with their choice of words and not necessarily biased towards prosecution or defense. And to end things up, no matter what the outcome will be, it's still not over. There will be yet another appeal to the highest court of Italy, as it is the right for every side. If Knox ends up being convicted, she will appeal; if she ends up being acquitted, the prosecution will appeal. Kinda creepy, gotta say. I feel sad for Merdith Kercher's family.

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    Re: Italian Supreme Court decides today - Amanda Knox, retrial?

    Thanks for the encompassing update.

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    Re: Italian Supreme Court decides today - Amanda Knox, retrial?

    At the start of this case, there existed no reason to believe Amanda Knox had any involvement, and she was not suspected. Suspicion only began to develop because of her bizarre behavior and remarkable dishonesty under questioning. At every level of the investigation, she lied to police. She lied about her boss, initially implicating him in the investigation. She lied about her whereabouts on the night of the murder. She lied about her treatment under questioning. She lied about everything. Then, she changed most of her stories, providing new lies.

    People who lie that determinedly usually have something to hide. Initially, I believed she must have some sort of involvement. I am increasingly persuaded, however, that there is something psychiatrically very wrong with Amanda Knox. It is interesting that her family did not want her going to study in Italy, as they did not believe her capable of functioning on her own in society, let alone in a foreign country.

    I doubt that the truth will ever be known about what Amanda Knox did on the night of Meredith Kircher's murder. Because I don't think Knox is capable of telling us.

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    Re: Italian Supreme Court decides today - Amanda Knox, retrial?

    You're entitled to have an opinion, of course, however, you really must do a minimum of research before you get involved in a discussion about this complex case.

    Her behaviour was widely reported as wrong or inappropriate, yet in court of law, during her two murder trials no wtiness testified it was out of ordinary or, what's more interesting, not single judge ruling on the case, deemed her bahaviour as proof of her involvement. Plus, there were experts in psychology(from both prosecution and defense) field testifying about Knox and Sollecito and no abnormalities were found in their social skills, behaviour patterns nor were there any signs found in their history that would suggest they would be capeable to harm another person.

    Knox changed her story once. It was after 4 days of interrogations with no translator and no lawyer and when the police told to her that Sollecito is no longer giving her an alibi. It was the police who was fixated on Lumumba, her boss, not the other way around. It was them who showed her an sms that she send to him on the night of the murder, which said, in broken Italian, that the two would meet later. It was the police, who said that there is evidence of her presence at the crime scene and that she will go to jail if she's not gonna start talking. There was no remarkable dishonesty and no "new lies". After she signed the statements, she recanted almost right away, writing that what she signed had nothing to do with the truth.

    But yeah, it's just her vs the police.

    Let's move on to evidence. None. The prosecution claims lots of things, the truth is, there is nothing that ties either Knox or Sollecito to the murder of Meredith Kercher.

    Let's keep in mind also, that there is Rudy Guede, who's DNA was on the victim, inside the victim, on her clothes, his shoeprints in her blood, his fingerprints on the pillow underneath her body, his DNA on her purse with empty wallet - Guede had no job, was a small time criminal. Few weeks before the murder he was caught in a nursery in Milan with a backpack with stolen goods and with a large knife. Plus no one ever seen Knox, Sollecito and Guede together, there are no phone conversations, no sms. Nothing. How did they come up with a plan to kill another person, when they did not knew each other? How did Knox manage to be involved in a struggle with three other people and not leave a single trace of her in the small room where the murder occured? Did she fly around the room and Guede was not flying? I mean, what's the deal here?

    She's clearly innocent.

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    Re: Italian Supreme Court decides today - Amanda Knox, retrial?

    Quote Originally Posted by DonnieDarko View Post
    You're entitled to have an opinion, of course, however, you really must do a minimum of research before you get involved in a discussion about this complex case.

    Her behaviour was widely reported as wrong or inappropriate, yet in court of law, during her two murder trials no wtiness testified it was out of ordinary or, what's more interesting, not single judge ruling on the case, deemed her bahaviour as proof of her involvement. Plus, there were experts in psychology(from both prosecution and defense) field testifying about Knox and Sollecito and no abnormalities were found in their social skills, behaviour patterns nor were there any signs found in their history that would suggest they would be capeable to harm another person.

    Knox changed her story once. It was after 4 days of interrogations with no translator and no lawyer and when the police told to her that Sollecito is no longer giving her an alibi. It was the police who was fixated on Lumumba, her boss, not the other way around. It was them who showed her an sms that she send to him on the night of the murder, which said, in broken Italian, that the two would meet later. It was the police, who said that there is evidence of her presence at the crime scene and that she will go to jail if she's not gonna start talking. There was no remarkable dishonesty and no "new lies". After she signed the statements, she recanted almost right away, writing that what she signed had nothing to do with the truth.

    But yeah, it's just her vs the police.

    Let's move on to evidence. None. The prosecution claims lots of things, the truth is, there is nothing that ties either Knox or Sollecito to the murder of Meredith Kercher.

    Let's keep in mind also, that there is Rudy Guede, who's DNA was on the victim, inside the victim, on her clothes, his shoeprints in her blood, his fingerprints on the pillow underneath her body, his DNA on her purse with empty wallet - Guede had no job, was a small time criminal. Few weeks before the murder he was caught in a nursery in Milan with a backpack with stolen goods and with a large knife. Plus no one ever seen Knox, Sollecito and Guede together, there are no phone conversations, no sms. Nothing. How did they come up with a plan to kill another person, when they did not knew each other? How did Knox manage to be involved in a struggle with three other people and not leave a single trace of her in the small room where the murder occured? Did she fly around the room and Guede was not flying? I mean, what's the deal here?

    She's clearly innocent.
    You've given more detail than I could without research, but reached the same conclusion: there's nothing to indicate she was there, yet the cops jumped on her instead of he guy with evidence of his presence all over the place.

    What are those cops drinking? smoking? munching?

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Italian Supreme Court decides today - Amanda Knox, retrial?

    The problem is that Knox and Sollecito were arrested before the DNA results came back. No one considered another suspect by then. The police had Guede's fingerprints for a couple of weeks before the murder, that's how they knew they have to start looking for him. It turned out that he was on the run in Germany and while he was there he Skyped his friend (who already was with the police) and he said it loud and clear - "Forget about Amanda, she wasn't there". Not only they had no DNA, fingerprints, footprints, hair, saliva of Knox in the room, but now, the person who's DNA was inside the victim says, Knox wasn't there.

    Now, what would normal prosecutor do? He would simply release both Knox and Sollecito and arrest Guede. What did the proseuctor do? He arrested Guede and kept Knox and Sollecito in jail and came up with a hilarious story that three people who didn't know each other killed another person during a sex game gone wrong. This is crazy. It is a farce.

    What's really bad is that, there is a huge chance that Knox and Sollecito will be convicted again. And it won't be over just yet. There will be another appeal to the Supreme Court.

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    Re: Italian Supreme Court decides today - Amanda Knox, retrial?

    Quote Originally Posted by DonnieDarko View Post
    The problem is that Knox and Sollecito were arrested before the DNA results came back. No one considered another suspect by then. The police had Guede's fingerprints for a couple of weeks before the murder, that's how they knew they have to start looking for him. It turned out that he was on the run in Germany and while he was there he Skyped his friend (who already was with the police) and he said it loud and clear - "Forget about Amanda, she wasn't there". Not only they had no DNA, fingerprints, footprints, hair, saliva of Knox in the room, but now, the person who's DNA was inside the victim says, Knox wasn't there.

    Now, what would normal prosecutor do? He would simply release both Knox and Sollecito and arrest Guede. What did the proseuctor do? He arrested Guede and kept Knox and Sollecito in jail and came up with a hilarious story that three people who didn't know each other killed another person during a sex game gone wrong. This is crazy. It is a farce.

    What's really bad is that, there is a huge chance that Knox and Sollecito will be convicted again. And it won't be over just yet. There will be another appeal to the Supreme Court.
    Sounds like Italian "justice" is a match for the Keystone Cops.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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