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  1. #1
    ecce homo rareboy's Avatar
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    So How's that Conversation about Guns going?

    Back in January, I was eviscerated because I commented that it seemed that America's discussion about guns had petered out post SandyHook.

    Well here we are two months later.

    How are the House and the Senate making out with the proposed legislation to put some controls on who can buy guns and what kind of guns and ammo clips they can buy?

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    JUB Addict chrisrobin's Avatar
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    Re: So How's that Conversation about Guns going?

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    Back in January, I was eviscerated because I commented that it seemed that America's discussion about guns had petered out post SandyHook.

    Well here we are two months later.

    How are the House and the Senate making out with the proposed legislation to put some controls on who can buy guns and what kind of guns and ammo clips they can buy?
    Petered out?

    Wayne LaPierre has been elevated to the rank of "second coming."

    The House and the Senate are still aiming to make Obama a one-term president.

    Parents of SandyHook "incident" still grieve.

    Now... let's discuss something really important: White House dog-walker.

    In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

  3. #3
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: So How's that Conversation about Guns going?

    I can't believe you want to talk about gun control, when FOUR DEAD AMERICANS IN BENGHAZI...
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  4. #4
    Do I dare to eat a peach?
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    Re: So How's that Conversation about Guns going?

    Diary this taunting and trolling thread for 2 years from now for an update.

  5. #5
    ecce homo rareboy's Avatar
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    Re: So How's that Conversation about Guns going?

    Neither taunting nor trolling.

    Real questions.

    How is the federal Legislative body doing with the legislation on this?

    I did find this for states considering restrictions.



    ....and this for States considering loosening restrictions.....



  6. #6
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: So How's that Conversation about Guns going?

    2923 American gun deaths since Newtown as of today.

    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a..._shooting.html

    of which 51 are children.
    Last edited by bankside; March 24th, 2013 at 09:17 AM.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

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    auribus teneo lupum Stardreamer's Avatar
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    Re: So How's that Conversation about Guns going?

    ON the Federal Level, based on what I'm seeing on the news, the assault weapons ban has been pushed to the back burner. There simply isn't enough votes to pass it. The measure was pulled from the Senate bill on gun control legislation for fear it would prevent any bill from being passed. The focus seems to be on tightening up background check requirements to cover more independent sales and mental health issues. The former is running into issues of private exchanges which quite frankly may be unenforceable on an individual basis. There does seem to be the beginning of a backlash in the mental health community on the latter out of concerns about patient privacy and rights.
    Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule - and both commonly succeed, and are right. H. L. Mencken US editor (1880 - 1956)

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    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: So How's that Conversation about Guns going?

    back burner is a mistake. better to bring forward something reasonable and show clearly which people are against it. make them accountable.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

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    ecce homo rareboy's Avatar
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    Re: So How's that Conversation about Guns going?

    At least someone is putting their money where their mouth is:

    Bloomberg unveils $12m gun control ad campaign as NRA squares up

    New York mayor Michael Bloomberg is bankrolling a $12m advertising blitz in a bid to pressure Congress into adopted stricter gun controls.

    The television ads are set to run in 13 key states during the congressional recess and are aimed at influencing an upcoming Senate vote on gun reforms.

    Announcing the move, Bloomberg – the co-chair of Mayors Against Illegal Guns and one of the US's most high-profile advocates of tighter controls – said: "These ads bring the voices of Americans – who overwhelmingly support comprehensive and enforceable background checks – into the discussion to move senators to immediately take action to prevent gun violence."
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...l-ad-blitz-nra

  10. #10
    JUB Addict T-Rexx's Avatar
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    Re: So How's that Conversation about Guns going?



    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails crmlu130322.jpg   po130320.gif  

  11. #11
    auribus teneo lupum Stardreamer's Avatar
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    Re: So How's that Conversation about Guns going?

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    back burner is a mistake. better to bring forward something reasonable and show clearly which people are against it. make them accountable.
    Even at the cost of the whole thing going down in flames? The Senate wants to get something done, not lock everything up in more partisan gridlock.
    Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule - and both commonly succeed, and are right. H. L. Mencken US editor (1880 - 1956)

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    Re: So How's that Conversation about Guns going?

    Harry Reid doesn't want to lose majority leadership status. Democrats up for election in Red States next year won't go anywhere near anything to do with guns.

  13. #13
    GiancarloC
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    Re: So How's that Conversation about Guns going?

    My negative view is that Congress isn't mature enough to talk about this topic, so we can't expect much out of them. They are the do nothing Congress, especially the House of Representatives. What do we expect? Progress? Fat chance.

  14. #14

    Re: So How's that Conversation about Guns going?

    Nothing will be done. The NRA has the republican controlled congress in their hip pocket and regularly threatens their careers if they even so much as whisper anything about gun control. The NRA is a front for the gun manufacturers and any sort of gun legislation would hurt their profits.

    So the accessory to mass murder, Wayne LaPierre, will happily go along being a shill for the gun manufacturers so the public to have weapons of war as their playthings. He'll continue to wave the second amendment around forgetting the rights of those who's lives have been snuffed out.

    Meanwhile American children will continue to be slaughtered because these republicans patsies refuse to grow a set and take a stand against their NRA masters.

  15. #15
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: So How's that Conversation about Guns going?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stardreamer View Post
    Even at the cost of the whole thing going down in flames? The Senate wants to get something done, not lock everything up in more partisan gridlock.
    "Getting something done" i.e., the appearance of legislative activity, is fairly pointless when the real problem is the viewpoint of most Americans, i.e., that owning a weapon is actually a useful, reasonable, practical, and best means of self defence.

    Since the US is a democracy, no law will actually change anything enough to make a difference until people understand that while there is a place for guns in private hands, this "self defence" argument is complete nonsense and most people have no business owning and operating a weapon. The current gun nut nonsense is on the scale of creationist nonsense (and not surprisingly overlapping).

    Anyway, to begin the process, you can't really cooperate with these people, which is why "bipartisanship" is a dead end.

    You have to assign responsibility for the failure in the most public and persistent way possible so that partisanship can do its work and begin the long road to change. And you have to wait for a bunch of old second-amendment-gun-nuts to die off just like the dying homophobes are paving the way for equal marriage. And you can't let up on the pressure in the interim. You have to call out the gun nuts in the same way that we call out homophobes and racists and communists and facists etc...
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  16. #16
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: So How's that Conversation about Guns going?

    I agree with bankside - there needs to be personal accountability - "THIS is the guy that doesn't want your kid to be safe at school".
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  17. #17

    Re: So How's that Conversation about Guns going?

    Funny, Harry Reid dropped the vote on assault weapons .. and yet very little coverage in the media, no outrage by people here towards Reid or even the President.

    Where were Biden and Obama? I thought they were committed to getting something done.

    All the crap talk about the NRA means nothing -- liberals stopped the vote on assault weapons.
    Last edited by Jack Springer; March 24th, 2013 at 12:47 PM.

  18. #18
    GiancarloC
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    Re: So How's that Conversation about Guns going?

    Where were Biden and Obama? Where were the republicans? Oh that's right... placing any obstacles they can. Liberals didn't stop the vote.

  19. #19

    Re: So How's that Conversation about Guns going?

    Bloomberg really thinks of himself like Kim Jong Un. He is such a megalomaniacal moron. He is one of the primary reasons I hate going to NYC. I have to because of my job but I hate it so much. It is about as much fun as going to any random third world shithole.

    The thing that interests me about the gun debate is conspicuous lack of mandatory sentencing guidelines for criminals using firearms. I know there is the three strikes law but if you really want to do something have a one strike law with a mandatory sentence of 25 years for everyone without restriction and without parole. That would mean anyone from a juvenile to an elderly adult, including law enforcement personnel, would have to serve 25 years in prison for the misuse of a gun.

    The current legislation is only directed at law abiding citizens. It does not address the criminal. Criminals, for the most part, are not going to obtain a gun in the normal way. Therefore registering guns won't work for this particular section of the public. Background checks may be of some use but the potential for abuse is ever present. I personally don't have a problem limiting magazine sizes. It is ridiculous how low some of the proposals are, though. I can see limiting access to a 100 round drum, but saying 7 or 10 rounds is just stupid.

    The bottom line is if you think guns are dangerous things then don't buy one. Chances are that you will never have to encounter a gun in your lifetime. The are plenty of dangerous things that can and do kill people more frequently than do guns that remain unregulated or restricted.
    Only government can take perfectly good paper, cover it with perfectly good ink and make the combination worthless.

  20. #20
    auribus teneo lupum Stardreamer's Avatar
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    Re: So How's that Conversation about Guns going?

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    "Getting something done" i.e., the appearance of legislative activity, is fairly pointless when the real problem is the viewpoint of most Americans, i.e., that owning a weapon is actually a useful, reasonable, practical, and best means of self defence.

    Since the US is a democracy, no law will actually change anything enough to make a difference until people understand that while there is a place for guns in private hands, this "self defence" argument is complete nonsense and most people have no business owning and operating a weapon. The current gun nut nonsense is on the scale of creationist nonsense (and not surprisingly overlapping).

    Anyway, to begin the process, you can't really cooperate with these people, which is why "bipartisanship" is a dead end.

    You have to assign responsibility for the failure in the most public and persistent way possible so that partisanship can do its work and begin the long road to change. And you have to wait for a bunch of old second-amendment-gun-nuts to die off just like the dying homophobes are paving the way for equal marriage. And you can't let up on the pressure in the interim. You have to call out the gun nuts in the same way that we call out homophobes and racists and communists and facists etc...
    Not the appearance of legislation but actual legislation based on compromise and art of what is achievable, that is how a representative democracy works. Its when you take an all or nothing stand on an issue (like no tax increases or assault weapon ban or nothing) that things grind into gridlock.
    Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule - and both commonly succeed, and are right. H. L. Mencken US editor (1880 - 1956)

  21. #21
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: So How's that Conversation about Guns going?

    Ah, the usual "if we tighten gun control, it will become a criminal dystopia because criminals will just conjure guns through alchemy!" argument.

    I am baffled. There are liberals who are against abortion - we even have a few on here. Why then are there NO conservatives that are against gun control? O.o
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  22. #22
    auribus teneo lupum Stardreamer's Avatar
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    Re: So How's that Conversation about Guns going?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    I agree with bankside - there needs to be personal accountability - "THIS is the guy that doesn't want your kid to be safe at school".
    Except that wouldn't be personal accountability, that would be technically called a strawman.
    Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule - and both commonly succeed, and are right. H. L. Mencken US editor (1880 - 1956)

  23. #23
    auribus teneo lupum Stardreamer's Avatar
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    Re: So How's that Conversation about Guns going?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Ah, the usual "if we tighten gun control, it will become a criminal dystopia because criminals will just conjure guns through alchemy!" argument.

    I am baffled. There are liberals who are against abortion - we even have a few on here. Why then are there NO conservatives that are against gun control? O.o
    Really? None at all?

    The GOP leadership establishment in the U.S. House of Representatives has hinted it may snub the rank and file Republican members of the House by stating they may seek to pass gun control measures without a majority of support from House Republicans.

    The stunning announcement came from House Majority Whip, U.S. Rep. Kevin McCarthy, R-Calif., who told CNN on Sunday, according to The Hill, that House Speaker John Boehner wants a major gun control bill to receive bipartisan approval even if it means the majority of House Republicans oppose it.
    GOP leadership hints snub of House Republicans to support gun control
    Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule - and both commonly succeed, and are right. H. L. Mencken US editor (1880 - 1956)

  24. #24
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: So How's that Conversation about Guns going?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stardreamer View Post
    Except that wouldn't be personal accountability, that would be technically called a strawman.
    Technically yes. But ultimately it does lead to accountability, because those people are elected by us. And if those who elect them wish for gun regulation to be passed, then it SHOULD be passed, and when it isn't people need to know who is responsible, and those responsible need to know that people know who they are...

    As for your other post, I was referring to conservative voters, not politicians. There's not a single anti-gun conservative on this forum.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  25. #25
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    Re: So How's that Conversation about Guns going?

    Sounds spiteful.



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  26. #26
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: So How's that Conversation about Guns going?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Ah, the usual "if we tighten gun control, it will become a criminal dystopia because criminals will just conjure guns through alchemy!" argument.

    I am baffled. There are liberals who are against abortion - we even have a few on here. Why then are there NO conservatives that are against gun control? O.o
    Possibly because on average liberals place more stock than conservatives in reasoned debate and a diversity of opinion. But now I'm off topic. And as a counterexample, Canadian Bush Jr toadie and speechwriter David Frum has let down his side by accepting equal marriage. Oh, and that senator too. See how I presented a counterexample?
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  27. #27
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: So How's that Conversation about Guns going?

    Quote Originally Posted by Durango95 View Post
    Bloomberg really thinks of himself like Kim Jong Un. He is such a megalomaniacal moron. He is one of the primary reasons I hate going to NYC. I have to because of my job but I hate it so much. It is about as much fun as going to any random third world shithole.

    The thing that interests me about the gun debate is conspicuous lack of mandatory sentencing guidelines for criminals using firearms. I know there is the three strikes law but if you really want to do something have a one strike law with a mandatory sentence of 25 years for everyone without restriction and without parole. That would mean anyone from a juvenile to an elderly adult, including law enforcement personnel, would have to serve 25 years in prison for the misuse of a gun.

    The current legislation is only directed at law abiding citizens. It does not address the criminal. Criminals, for the most part, are not going to obtain a gun in the normal way. Therefore registering guns won't work for this particular section of the public. Background checks may be of some use but the potential for abuse is ever present. I personally don't have a problem limiting magazine sizes. It is ridiculous how low some of the proposals are, though. I can see limiting access to a 100 round drum, but saying 7 or 10 rounds is just stupid.

    The bottom line is if you think guns are dangerous things then don't buy one. Chances are that you will never have to encounter a gun in your lifetime. The are plenty of dangerous things that can and do kill people more frequently than do guns that remain unregulated or restricted.
    I'm certain the mother of the baby shot in the face is right now sitting somewhere thinking "Most of all, we need mandatory sentencing guidelines right now. And not fewer guns through a massive disarmament buyback."
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  28. #28

    Re: So How's that Conversation about Guns going?

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    I'm certain the mother of the baby shot in the face is right now sitting somewhere thinking "Most of all, we need mandatory sentencing guidelines right now. And not fewer guns through a massive disarmament buyback."

    You're psychic! How fabulous for you. I am too.

    I think you're mistaken. Look at where she is. She might be saying something like that had she lived in your lalaland, wherever that is. She probably is thinking...gee if I had a gun too I would have killed that stupid fuck and his little companion as well and my baby would be alive instead of some worthless waste of space that not only has lived off the "gubment" his heretofore life but will continue to do so forever.
    Only government can take perfectly good paper, cover it with perfectly good ink and make the combination worthless.

  29. #29
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: So How's that Conversation about Guns going?

    Quote Originally Posted by Durango95 View Post
    You're psychic! How fabulous for you. I am too.

    I think you're mistaken. Look at where she is. She might be saying something like that had she lived in your lalaland, wherever that is. She probably is thinking...gee if I had a gun too I would have killed that stupid fuck and his little companion as well and my baby would be alive instead of some worthless waste of space that not only has lived off the "gubment" his heretofore life but will continue to do so forever.
    And there is the delusion on display.

    You are kidding yourself if you think a shoot-out is the best way to keep a baby safe. It is astonishing that we'd even have to spell it out like that, but such is the delusion of your country.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  30. #30

    Re: So How's that Conversation about Guns going?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Ah, the usual "if we tighten gun control, it will become a criminal dystopia because criminals will just conjure guns through alchemy!" argument.

    I am baffled. There are liberals who are against abortion - we even have a few on here. Why then are there NO conservatives that are against gun control? O.o
    AGAINST abortion? I don't think anyone is FOR abortion.

    What I'm against is the government sticking their nose into a woman's womb and up her vagina deciding for her what she has to do. That's what I'm against. The right wing republicans want to legislate what goes on in private citizen's bedrooms and doctor's offices and private lives.

  31. #31
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: So How's that Conversation about Guns going?

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    Back in January, I was eviscerated because I commented that it seemed that America's discussion about guns had petered out post SandyHook.

    Well here we are two months later.

    How are the House and the Senate making out with the proposed legislation to put some controls on who can buy guns and what kind of guns and ammo clips they can buy?
    The problem is deeper than gun control can address. I am all for realistic restrictions such as background checks for all purchasers. However, the issue is more access to mental health care. Both sides miss the boat on addressing the real issue of mental health care and subsequent restriction of weapons ownership by mental health officials.


    • Republicans refuse to admit national health care that WORKS would address most fo the mental health issues. They also balk using falsehoods like saying gun grabbers.
    • Democrats refuse to believe that a person of questionable mental health should have a right removed or be reported by their medical professional. SO they focus on more and more restrictive gun measures that serve no purpose in a country with ten times more guns than people.


    So, until both parties actually approach the issue with a realistic fix, then nothing will occur. Pretty simple really.
    Last edited by JayHawk; March 24th, 2013 at 02:50 PM.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  32. #32

    Re: So How's that Conversation about Guns going?

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    And there is the delusion on display.

    You are kidding yourself if you think a shoot-out is the best way to keep a baby safe. It is astonishing that we'd even have to spell it out like that, but such is the delusion of your country.

    You are well acquainted with delusion I am quite sure.

    We can keep doing this all day long. It isn't going to make any difference to either of us. You have your world view. I have my world view. You seem to think it is within your purview to take something away from me simply because you don't want me to have it. In that way you are very similar to the suspect in the referenced shooting. He thought it was within his purview to take something away from the child's mother simply because he did not want her to have it.

    It now makes perfect sense that you and your ilk would like to see law abiding citizens disarmed and the criminals strengthened. You are not in favor of gun control. You are in favor of selective gun control.
    Only government can take perfectly good paper, cover it with perfectly good ink and make the combination worthless.

  33. #33
    GiancarloC
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    Re: So How's that Conversation about Guns going?

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    And there is the delusion on display.

    You are kidding yourself if you think a shoot-out is the best way to keep a baby safe. It is astonishing that we'd even have to spell it out like that, but such is the delusion of your country.
    Some tend to have delusional thoughts that armed guards and shootouts everywhere would help make things safer. Lets have more guns lol... M-16s everywhere... yeah... scary way to view the world right?

    People are delusional in America about guns and they are frankly not mature enough to tackle the problem of the extremely lax gun control laws int his country.

  34. #34
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: So How's that Conversation about Guns going?

    Quote Originally Posted by Durango95 View Post
    You are well acquainted with delusion I am quite sure.


    We can keep doing this all day long. It isn't going to make any difference to either of us. You have your world view. I have my world view. You seem to think it is within your purview to take something away from me simply because you don't want me to have it. In that way you are very similar to the suspect in the referenced shooting. He thought it was within his purview to take something away from the child's mother simply because he did not want her to have it.


    It now makes perfect sense that you and your ilk would like to see law abiding citizens disarmed and the criminals strengthened. You are not in favor of gun control. You are in favor of selective gun control.

    No; it is within all of our purview to take a joint decision (like disarmament) when it will ensure our security far better than "every man for himself." Your 'Ilk" is causing the problem, and the shared falsehood that personal weaponry is reasonable and effective is responsible for too many deaths.

    In particular, these ones:

    How Many People Have Been Killed by Guns Since Newtown?
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  35. #35
    GiancarloC
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    Re: So How's that Conversation about Guns going?

    Quote Originally Posted by Durango95 View Post
    It now makes perfect sense that you and your ilk would like to see law abiding citizens disarmed and the criminals strengthened. You are not in favor of gun control. You are in favor of selective gun control.
    You and your ilk? That's a great way to address other posters around here. And one must wonder why nobody pays attention to how emotional and ridiculous your statements sound right now. Criminals strengthened? Oh puh-lease. That's McCarthyist language and it's fear mongering. That type of thinking gets people seriously hurt or worse.

  36. #36

    Re: So How's that Conversation about Guns going?

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    No; it is within all of our purview to take a joint decision (like disarmament) when it will ensure our security far better than "every man for himself." Your 'Ilk" is causing the problem, and the shared falsehood that personal weaponry is reasonable and effective is responsible for too many deaths.

    In particular, these ones:

    How Many People Have Been Killed by Guns Since Newtown?
    Please state how disarming law abiding citizens and allowing criminals to keep their guns ensures safety for anyone other than the criminal.
    Only government can take perfectly good paper, cover it with perfectly good ink and make the combination worthless.

  37. #37
    GiancarloC
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    Re: So How's that Conversation about Guns going?

    Yes... so many here want criminals to "keep their guns"... Keep it up with the red herrings.

  38. #38
    JUB Addict maxpowr9's Avatar
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    Re: So How's that Conversation about Guns going?

    I don't think gun ownership is a problem but the mental health care in this country as jayhawk said is downright appalling. Unless you have money, which most mentally "unhealthy" people don't, you are screwed in terms of care. That is something that desperately needs to be addressed but neither side wants to. The GOP don't [lol "compassionate conservative"] due to the money need to support them and Democrats have gone all "progressive" on health care and don't want acknowledge that people have mental health problems.

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    JUB Addict Ninja108's Avatar
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    Re: So How's that Conversation about Guns going?

    While the mental health care system in this country is beyond horrid,using the mentally ill as a scapegoat for violent crime with guns is also wrong.

  40. #40

    Re: So How's that Conversation about Guns going?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja108 View Post
    While the mental health care system in this country is beyond horrid,using the mentally ill as a scapegoat for violent crime with guns is also wrong.
    I think you need to look at the people doing the killing -- mental illness is the common thread.

  41. #41
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: So How's that Conversation about Guns going?

    False. They're just the ones getting more publicity because they're white. As has been stated before, if they were black, instant assumptions of "thuggery" arise. As if being black and shooting people instantly means you're a criminal.

    Durango, how do other first world countries survive this dystopian horror of criminals armed to the teeth?
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  42. #42

    Re: So How's that Conversation about Guns going?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    I think you need to look at the people doing the killing -- mental illness is the common thread.
    Using this logic, those with guns have a mental illness.

    I bet you you don't own a gun much less fire one.

  43. #43
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    Re: So How's that Conversation about Guns going?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    I think you need to look at the people doing the killing -- mental illness is the common thread.
    Actually, the only true commonality of every gun death in the US is a gun.

  44. #44
    Lions&Tigers&Bears Oh My!
    eastofeden's Avatar
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    Re: So How's that Conversation about Guns going?

    I think the real change has come in the public awareness and increasing support for stricter regulations.

    I was pretty much at odds with other liberals on the subject for years...mostly neutral but slightly pro unrestricted gun ownership...until the last few months as listening to LaPierre and the NRA rank and file has convinced me that stricter regulation and background checks are important. LaPierre probably singlehandedly changed my mind.

  45. #45
    Thankfully Liberal & Gay
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    Re: So How's that Conversation about Guns going?

    What part of "...WELL REGULATED militia" don't The NRA and Republicans understand?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Ah, the usual "if we tighten gun control, it will become a criminal dystopia because criminals will just conjure guns through alchemy!" argument.
    Or manufacture guns with 'dem newfangled printers.
    "All legal U. S. residents who are 18 years or older, shall have an unconditional right to vote." - 28th Amendment, US Constitution?
    "But, hey, who cares about women and their rights when the religious liberty of a nationwide chain of arts and crafts stores is at stake?" - Daily Kos, 30 June 2014
    "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires" - Susan B. Anthony

  46. #46
    GiancarloC
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    Re: So How's that Conversation about Guns going?

    Another one of those "responsible" gun owners:

    http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...ead-in-nc?lite

  47. #47
    ecce homo rareboy's Avatar
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    Re: So How's that Conversation about Guns going?

    So is it true that the only federal legislation passed so far regarding guns is a law that prevents the Justice Department from searching gun vendors' records to trace stolen guns?

  48. #48
    ecce homo rareboy's Avatar
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    Re: So How's that Conversation about Guns going?

    Apparently this is the biggest health threat when it comes to guns:

    http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mo...trl-alt-delete

    Definitely worth the watch...

  49. #49
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    Re: So How's that Conversation about Guns going?

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    Apparently this is the biggest health threat when it comes to guns:

    http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mo...trl-alt-delete

    Definitely worth the watch...
    Rand Paul and Ted Cruz (our next president and vice-president) are planning a philibuster against background checks. After all, we need to kiss the ass of his royal highness, King Lapierre. I'm sure the parents of Newtown certainly will be thrilled and elated.

    Question: Are 50 gallon drums of ammonium nitrate covered by the Second Amendment?

    In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

  50. #50
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    Re: So How's that Conversation about Guns going?

    Here's the Connecticut State Attorney's list of the 165 items that police recovered from the Lanza's home after the Sandy Hook shooting. Just your run of the mill family stuff, I guess. Remember that this stuff is in ADDITION to the weapons and ammo taken to the Sandy Hook Elementary school.

    I note with interest that, despite Wayne LaPierre's claim that the Lanza's had no affiliation with the NRA, both Adam Lanza and his mother held NRA certificates, and the NRA Guide to the Basics of Pistol Shooting.

    AMMUNITION
    More than 1700 rounds of ammunition were found inside the Lanza house. Most was stored inside a brown gun safe.
    Small calibre bullet (live round) labelled "C"
    Advertisement
    Five Winchester 12ga. shotgun shells, cut open, with buckshot
    White plastic bag containing 30 Winchester 12ga. shotgun shells
    "Planters" can with numerous .22cal. and .45 cal. bullets
    Box containing eight boxes of Winchester Wildcat .22cal. bullets with 50 rounds per box
    Box with 20 "Estate" 12ga. shotgun shells
    Four boxes of "SB" buckshot 12ga., 10 rounds per box
    Box of "Lightfield" 12ga. slugs
    Box of 20 "Prvi Partizan" 3030 British rifle cartridges
    Box of 20 "Federal" 303 British rifle cartridges
    Two boxes of 22 long rifle "Blazer", 50 rounds each
    Wooden box with numerous rounds of "Winchester" .45cal bullets
    Two boxes of 50 rounds - "PPU .45cal. auto
    Box of 20 rounds "Remington" .223cal
    Three boxes of "Blazer" 40 S&W, 50 rounds each
    Two boxes of "Winchester" 5.56mm, 20 rounds each
    Box of "Magtech" 4ACP with 30 rounds
    Empty box of "SSA" 5.56mm
    Box of "Fiocchi" .45 auto with 48 rounds
    80 rounds of CCI .22 long rifle
    Six boxes of PMC .223 rem, 20 rounds each
    Six "Winchester" 9 pellet buckshot shells (12ga.)
    Two Remington 12ga. slugs
    Three Winchester .223 rifle rounds
    Thirty-one .22cal. rounds
    Two boxes of Underwood 10mm auto each with 50 rounds
    130 rounds of Lawman 9mm luger in 3 boxes
    Two spent shell casings from factory for Glock 10mm, SN- SMA461
    One Promag 20 round, 12ga. drum magazine
    One MDArms 20 round 12ga. drum magazine
    Small box of misc. rounds
    Empty box of Gold Dot 9mm luger
    Two empty boxes of Winchester 9mm luger
    Box of Underwood 10mm auto with 34 of 50 rounds
    Magazine with 10 rounds of .223cal bullets
    Box of misc. 9mm rounds (29 total)
    Three AGP Arms lnc 12ga. shotgun magazines (empty)
    Surefire GunMag magazine with 8 rounds of Winchester 12ga. 9pellet buck
    Two AGP Arms Inc 12ga. shotgun magazines, taped together, each with 10 rounds
    Winchester 12ga. 9 pellet buck
    Spent .22cal shell casing
    Small plastic bag containing numerous .22cal. bullets
    Two empty Ram Line magazines for Ruger 10-22
    Tan bag containing personal hygiene items, ear protection and plastic bag with numerous Blazer .45cal. bullets
    AGP Arms Inc. Gen 212ga. shotgun magazine with 10 rounds of Winchester 12ga. 9 pel. buck
    Full box of Blazer .22callong rifle (50 rounds)
    Box of PPU 303 British cartridges with 9 rounds
    Two Win 9mm rounds
    One brass coloured shell casing
    One brass coloured shell casing
    Clear plastic Ramline magazine for an AR15

    GUNS
    Police found two rifles, one pistol and one BB gun in the house.
    One Enfield Albian bolt action rifle, .323 calibre, model no. 44MKI, SN HC22273A
    One "Savage Mark II" .22cal rifle, SN 1605038, with magazine, 31ive rounds, and 1 spent cartridge
    Black marksman BB gun, serial #32814
    Volcanic .22 revolver starter pistol with 5 live rounds and 1 expended round

    KNIVES AND OTHER WEAPONS
    Knives ranging in size from a pocket knife to a 28-inch samurai sword were also found.
    Small blue folding knife
    One metal bayonet
    Knife with a 12 inch blade and a sheath
    Wooden-handle knife with a 7.5 inch blade and a sheath
    Wooden-handle knife with a 10 inch blade
    Knife with a 5.5 inch blade and a sheath
    Black-handled knife with a 7 inch blade and a sheath
    Black rubber handled knife with a 9.5 inch blade and a sheath
    White and brown handled knife with a 5 inch blade and sheath
    Brown wood handled knife with a 10.25 inch blade
    Panther brand brown handled folding knife with a 3.75 inch blade
    Six-foot-ten inch wooden handled two-sided pole with a blade on one side and a spear on the opposite side
    Samurai sword with a canvas wrapped handle and a 28 inch blade with a sheath
    Samurai sword with a canvas wrapped handle and a 21-inch blade with a sheath
    Samurai sword with a canvas wrapped handle and a 13-inch blade with a sheath

    ELECTRONICS
    Police recovered four cell phones, multiple computers and hard drives, data discs and three gaming systems from the house, among other items.

    DOCUMENTS
    Documents included gun-ownership manuals, the book "Born on a Blue Day: Inside the Extraordinary Mind of an Autistic Savant," the book "NRA Guide to the Basics of Pistol Shooting" and separate NRA certificates naming Nancy and Adam Lanza. The NRA denies any connection between the Lanzas and the organisation.
    Safariland holster paperwork
    Handwritten note card regarding ammunition and magazines
    Glock handgun manual
    MD-20, 20 round shotgun magazine manual
    MD Arms VPiug guide
    Bushmaster XM15 and C15 instruction manual
    Savage Arms bolt action rifle manual
    Glock paperwork
    Five paper targets
    Cardboard target
    Numerous paper targets
    Receipts and emails documenting firearm/ammunition and shooting supplies
    Sixteen day planner pads from nightstand
    Verizon Wireless bills
    Five books from master bedroom closet
    Medical papers
    Blue folder labelled "Guns," containing receipts, paperwork and other firearm-related paperwork
    Verizon wireless bill dated 11/02/12 for Nancy Lanza
    Printed e-mail conversations located in living room
    Legal documents located in basket in living room
    Paperwork titled, "Connecticut Gun Exchange, Glock 20SF 10mm FS 15 round FC," dated 12/21/11
    School-related paperwork pertaining to Adam Lanza
    Email re: Gunbroker.com dated 10/12/11
    Printed photographs, misc. handwritten papers, and Sandy Hook report card for Adam Lanza
    Book: "Look Me in the Eye: My Life With Asperger's"
    Book: "Born on a Blue Day: Inside the Extraordinary Mind of an Autistic Savant"
    Book: "NRA Guide to the Basics of Pistol Shooting"
    Handwritten papers, artwork and literature pertaining to Adam Lanza
    School paperwork in the name of Adam Lanza
    Insurance, medical, and other paperwork in name of Nancy Lanza, and college paperwork in name of Adam Lanza
    Four papers with miscellaneous writings
    Receipt for Timstar Shooting Range in Weatherford, Okla.
    NRA certificate for Nancy Lanza
    NRA certificate for Adam Lanza
    Book: "Train Your Brain to Get Happy," with pages tabbed off
    Seven journals and miscellaneous drawings by Adam Lanza
    Journal authored by Ryan Lanza
    Box of miscellaneous photographs of Adam Lanza and family
    Holiday card from Nancy Lanza containing a Bank of America check made out to Adam Lanza for the purchase of a C183 (firearm)
    New York Times article from 2/18/08 of a school shooting in Northern Illinois University
    Handwritten note pad with what appears to be to do lists for Nancy Lanza from December 14 through December 20
    Miscellaneous documents pertaining to Nancy Lanza including a State of Connecticut Sale or Transfer of Firearm dated 10/09/10
    Documents related to Adam Lanza's PSAT scores, bank account and high school paperwork
    Box of personal writings from Adam Lanza's bedroom and personal memorabilia from an adjacent room
    Box of books and papers from Adam Lanza's bedroom
    Box of papers taken from common areas in Adam Lanza's house, including a storage room and Nancy Lanza's bedroom
    Bag of papers from common areas in Adam Lanza's house
    Miscellaneous vehicle paperwork
    Handwritten notes regarding the addresses of local gun shops

    OTHER EVIDENCE
    Other evidence included gun accessories and a "digital image print of a child and various firearms."
    Black leather handgun holster
    Small plastic bag of screws and allen
    Box for Battle Tested vest accessories
    Leather Dual magazine holder
    Plastic bag of misc. parts
    Peltor ear plugs
    One Uncle Mikes Sidekick nylon holster
    "High Sierra" fanny pack
    One cotton swab of BLS (blood like substance)
    Blood-stained sheets and towel
    Leightning L3 ear protection
    Two sets of eye protection
    Simmons binoculars
    Bushnell sport view rifle scope, 4x32mm
    Items related to school located in master bedroom
    One Visa platinum debit card for Nancy Lanza
    One digital image print of a child and various firearms.
    Photographs with images of what appears to be a deceased human covered with plastic and blood
    Box of military-style uniform from Adam Lanza's bedroom

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