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Thread: Guilt verdict in the Steubenville rape(?) case

      
   
  1. #1

    Guilt verdict in the Steubenville rape(?) case

    Two guys were found guilty of rape which wasn't a rape. The preponderance of evidence was hearsay from unreliable witnesses. The forensic evidence was at best inconclusive due to the fact that none was found directly on anyone. So how is it that two young men are convicted of what exactly?
    Only government can take perfectly good paper, cover it with perfectly good ink and make the combination worthless.

  2. #2
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Guilt verdict in the Steubenville rape(?) case

    Any links and any sources for that argument?

    From what I've read it was definitely a rape and the evidence was solid. If there is a problem with it, there is an appeals process.

    http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/17/justic...ase/index.html

    Here is a link. That's how we operate on CE&P.
    Last edited by GiancarloC; March 17th, 2013 at 06:43 PM.

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    Re: Guilt verdict in the Steubenville rape(?) case

    Quote Originally Posted by Durango95 View Post
    Two guys were found guilty of rape which wasn't a rape. The preponderance of evidence was hearsay from unreliable witnesses. The forensic evidence was at best inconclusive due to the fact that none was found directly on anyone. So how is it that two young men are convicted of what exactly?
    Dude, they fucking TWEETED it!
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  4. #4

    Re: Guilt verdict in the Steubenville rape(?) case

    The problem with these types of rape cases, where the alleged sexual assault occurred because the person assaulted was too inebriated to give consent, are always going to be problematic. It is especially problematic if the perpetrators were also drunk or high. They may have been unable to discern whether the victim was able to give consent (although in this case, the victim appears to have been out cold).

    I had a friend once who fucked his gf when he was so drunk, he didn't remember fucking her. She was pissed off he didn't remember. I had had enough to drink a few times in my youth where I didn't remember everything from the night before, and assumed I fell asleep and passed out, only to learn that I had been up and about the entire time (but I never sexually assaulted anyone). Literally, a few hours were blacked out. If both perpetrator and victim are too drunk to give consent, then ultimately who is the guilty party?

    These cases will always be difficult to prove and be controversial when decided. It does point out the importance of parents having very frank discussions with their children about these issues no later than their 13th birthday.

  5. #5

    Re: Guilt verdict in the Steubenville rape(?) case

    From the above link:
    The white guy apoligizes for taking pics and sending them out, but not for the rape. He sounded like it was something his attorney had him to memorize rather than from the heart.
    The girl may have had consentual sex with them sober, but the unhuman like behavior of the boys ( pics of her naked posted on the net) the two of them holding her by hands and feet in a passed out state, etc is despicable. It is a shame that parents and coach's place so little value on teaching morals and decent human behavior, it is all about winning the next game.
    The boys sure screwed up their lives.
    Last edited by kevin23; March 18th, 2013 at 08:07 AM.

  6. #6
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Guilt verdict in the Steubenville rape(?) case

    The posting of pictures on the internet show they had more than enough capacity to know the difference between right and wrong. If they were so drunk they probably wouldn't have been able to post photos. I think they didn't black out or what not. I think they knew exactly what they were doing. The conviction was just. They can appeal it but I think it will stick.

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    Re: Guilt verdict in the Steubenville rape(?) case

    Quote Originally Posted by palemale View Post
    The problem with these types of rape cases, where the alleged sexual assault occurred because the person assaulted was too inebriated to give consent, are always going to be problematic. It is especially problematic if the perpetrators were also drunk or high. They may have been unable to discern whether the victim was able to give consent (although in this case, the victim appears to have been out cold).

    I had a friend once who fucked his gf when he was so drunk, he didn't remember fucking her. She was pissed off he didn't remember. I had had enough to drink a few times in my youth where I didn't remember everything from the night before, and assumed I fell asleep and passed out, only to learn that I had been up and about the entire time (but I never sexually assaulted anyone). Literally, a few hours were blacked out. If both perpetrator and victim are too drunk to give consent, then ultimately who is the guilty party?

    These cases will always be difficult to prove and be controversial when decided. It does point out the importance of parents having very frank discussions with their children about these issues no later than their 13th birthday.
    Um, the guilty are still those who got themselves to the point of being unable to make the wrong decision to rape another person. Plus, tweeting and bragging? Not really a black out thing.
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    Re: Guilt verdict in the Steubenville rape(?) case

    Fox news comes out as a real jazzzy place! They aired the girls name and she IS underaged.

    http://www.alternet.org/media/fox-ne...tter811103&t=5

    March 18, 2013 |

    On Monday, Fox News’ America’s Newsroom aired the name of the underage victim in the Steubenville rape case.

    During a report by correspondent Mike Tobin, the station aired a clip of 17-year-old Trent Mays, one of the rapists, apologizing in the courtroom on Sunday.
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    Re: Guilt verdict in the Steubenville rape(?) case

    Quote Originally Posted by palemale View Post
    The problem with these types of rape cases, where the alleged sexual assault occurred because the person assaulted was too inebriated to give consent, are always going to be problematic. It is especially problematic if the perpetrators were also drunk or high. They may have been unable to discern whether the victim was able to give consent (although in this case, the victim appears to have been out cold).
    Quote Originally Posted by palemale View Post
    These cases will always be difficult to prove and be controversial when decided. It does point out the importance of parents having very frank discussions with their children about these issues no later than their 13th birthday.
    There is another problem with these cases, and that is that the punishment destroys the lives of the perpetrators. While some may argue that is justice, it is justice which propagates the problem and ensures that it will be repeated for generations.

    As registered sex offenders, these two men will never work meaningfully in their long lives to come. They will marry women who will support them and their children at near-poverty levels. They will be not be permitted to live in most parts of most cities. Their children will be disadvantaged because of the crimes of their fathers, and that will render the children susceptible to crime (as both victims and perpetrators) themselves.

    We have a tendency to "solve" problems in America by making the situation worse for everyone.

  10. #10

    Re: Guilt verdict in the Steubenville rape(?) case

    My take is that while there was a crime committed, does it warrant these young men being ruined forever. They were drunk as well. They were suffering from diminished capacity as well. Most jurisdictions allow people to get out of perfectly legal contracts when performed under diminished capacity. No one disputes the fact that their behavior was despicable. Was their behavior a result of diminished capacity? Had they acted in a similar way when not in diminished capacity?

    There seems to be a knee-jerk reaction about these type things. All would capitulate that the female was in diminished capacity, due to choices she made by imbibing too much alcohol, illegally I might add, to the point of her not being able to give consent. It was inferred that her behavior was absolutely due to diminished capacity. What I would like to know is had this female exhibited this same type behavior when not inebriated?

    There seems to be more here than is being related by the media. I am thinking this smells suspiciously like a regret or revenge rape charge. O wait there was no actual rape.
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    Re: Guilt verdict in the Steubenville rape(?) case

    Quote Originally Posted by Durango95 View Post
    My take is that while there was a crime committed, does it warrant these young men being ruined forever.
    No, it warrants them being torn to pieces by an angry crowd. But a lifetime of dreams turned to dust is the second best thing as far as I am concerned.

    Quote Originally Posted by Durango95 View Post
    They were drunk as well. They were suffering from diminished capacity as well. Most jurisdictions allow people to get out of perfectly legal contracts when performed under diminished capacity. No one disputes the fact that their behavior was despicable. Was their behavior a result of diminished capacity? Had they acted in a similar way when not in diminished capacity?

    There seems to be a knee-jerk reaction about these type things. All would capitulate that the female was in diminished capacity, due to choices she made by imbibing too much alcohol, illegally I might add, to the point of her not being able to give consent. It was inferred that her behavior was absolutely due to diminished capacity. What I would like to know is had this female exhibited this same type behavior when not inebriated?
    Interesting that "they were drunk, the poor dears, they didn't know what they were doing!", yet "the bitch was drunk ILLEGALLY! She was asking for it!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Durango95 View Post
    There seems to be more here than is being related by the media. I am thinking this smells suspiciously like a regret or revenge rape charge. O wait there was no actual rape.
    This is disgusting beyond words. Don't you have any dignity?

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  12. #12
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Guilt verdict in the Steubenville rape(?) case

    Quote Originally Posted by Durango95 View Post
    My take is that while there was a crime committed, does it warrant these young men being ruined forever. They were drunk as well. They were suffering from diminished capacity as well. Most jurisdictions allow people to get out of perfectly legal contracts when performed under diminished capacity. No one disputes the fact that their behavior was despicable. Was their behavior a result of diminished capacity? Had they acted in a similar way when not in diminished capacity?
    Yes it does warrant them being "ruined" forever. If someone gets drunk, gets in a car and kills someone or hurts someone... that's still a serious crime. And by posting pictures of their crime, they proved they weren't suffering from diminished capacity. They had plenty capacity to post the pictures on the internet. So the entire argument of diminished capacity is total nonsense.

    There seems to be a knee-jerk reaction about these type things. All would capitulate that the female was in diminished capacity, due to choices she made by imbibing too much alcohol, illegally I might add, to the point of her not being able to give consent. It was inferred that her behavior was absolutely due to diminished capacity. What I would like to know is had this female exhibited this same type behavior when not inebriated?
    Whether they were drunk does not matter... they committed a serious sexual assault and must face time for their crimes. Being drunk isn't an excuse and isn't an easy card out.

    Nope, no diminished capacity. They knew what they were doing and by posting pictures on the internet and boasting about it they knew very well. And don't go after the victim please... and I mean the REAL VICTIM. Not one of the rapists being depicted as victims. Even if she was drunk, it doesn't excuse assault.

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    Re: Guilt verdict in the Steubenville rape(?) case

    Giancarlo - being drunk isn't "diminished capacity" legally it's "under the influence." You have a mitigating circumstance when a perpetrator is legally mentally impaired - that's diminished capacity, whereas being drunk is no legal excuse for anything at all.
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  14. #14
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Guilt verdict in the Steubenville rape(?) case

    I just wonder how drunk they were if they were fully capable to post pictures and brag about it on the internet... I think they were well in their right mind.

  15. #15

    Re: Guilt verdict in the Steubenville rape(?) case

    Under the influence is within the purview of diminished capacity in many jurisdictions. Diminished capacity means mental impairment and not exclusively illness, presenting medical or brain trauma. The ingestion of ethanol impairs the mental capability of humans.

    The reason diminished capacity defenses in this particular instance do not work is the variable of choice. One can choose to drink ethanol and get behind the wheel of a car and potentially harm someone. One can choose to drink ethanol and "finger" an individual of the opposite gender who also choose to drink ethanol.

    If you take away the poor choice of the profuse consumption of ethanol, what is the behavior of the parties in question in the normal course of a day. That would be a more cogent standard. Were these young men just sleazy guys looking to exploit any random female? Was this female the school slut that just got a little more booze than she should have and passed out while engaging in routine behavior in which she often participated?
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    Re: Guilt verdict in the Steubenville rape(?) case

    IF someone is forced to drink alcohol, then I accept that they cannot be held accountable to exercise usual judgment.

    If they drink alcohol voluntarily, they own whatever they do while intoxicated, 100%.

    The only difference I might have with the law is that I believe drunk people can consent to sex, and I believe two drunk people are not raping each other if consent has been given. I believe two drunk people are not raping each other if consent was given but one or both of them don't remember. I know my guy and I sometimes enjoy having sex after wine, and it is totally proper and appropriate.

    However none of that seems to apply here.

    We have an admission of photos being deliberately taken of someone putting his fingers in her vagina, and nothing to indicate she was hoping for that to happen or even particularly aware of it. When your defence is "Sorry…we deleted the photos! Isn't that good enough?" well give me a break..
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    Re: Guilt verdict in the Steubenville rape(?) case

    Quote Originally Posted by Durango95 View Post
    Under the influence is within the purview of diminished capacity in many jurisdictions. Diminished capacity means mental impairment and not exclusively illness, presenting medical or brain trauma. The ingestion of ethanol impairs the mental capability of humans.

    The reason diminished capacity defenses in this particular instance do not work is the variable of choice. One can choose to drink ethanol and get behind the wheel of a car and potentially harm someone. One can choose to drink ethanol and "finger" an individual of the opposite gender who also choose to drink ethanol.

    If you take away the poor choice of the profuse consumption of ethanol, what is the behavior of the parties in question in the normal course of a day. That would be a more cogent standard. Were these young men just sleazy guys looking to exploit any random female? Was this female the school slut that just got a little more booze than she should have and passed out while engaging in routine behavior in which she often participated?
    Bullshit, I know of no jurisdiction that will show leniency because you were drunk - under ANY circumstance (though they might overlook it under Bankside's duress scenario), being drunk can even exacerbate the situation legally in some instances.

    NO where is what you say anything other that your rather transparent spin.
    Last edited by TX-Beau; March 18th, 2013 at 04:33 PM.
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    Re: Guilt verdict in the Steubenville rape(?) case

    All you are trying to do is make excuses for the rapists.

    Strange.
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  19. #19
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Guilt verdict in the Steubenville rape(?) case

    Quote Originally Posted by Durango95 View Post
    Under the influence is within the purview of diminished capacity in many jurisdictions. Diminished capacity means mental impairment and not exclusively illness, presenting medical or brain trauma. The ingestion of ethanol impairs the mental capability of humans.
    This is bullshit. They weren't under diminished capacity. There is no jurisdiction that would give a slap on the wrist because one is drunk. They weren't even that drunk because they still had the capacity to post the pictures and brag about it.

    The reason diminished capacity defenses in this particular instance do not work is the variable of choice. One can choose to drink ethanol and get behind the wheel of a car and potentially harm someone. One can choose to drink ethanol and "finger" an individual of the opposite gender who also choose to drink ethanol.
    The diminished capacity defense clearly does not apply here as they weren't forced into drinking, and they were not that drunk.

    Stop making excuses. The convicted rapists were within their proper minds, and they knew they were committing a crime. It was a sexual assault. Alcohol isn't an excuse.

  20. #20

    Re: Guilt verdict in the Steubenville rape(?) case

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    IF someone is forced to drink alcohol, then I accept that they cannot be held accountable to exercise usual judgment.

    If they drink alcohol voluntarily, they own whatever they do while intoxicated, 100%.

    The only difference I might have with the law is that I believe drunk people can consent to sex, and I believe two drunk people are not raping each other if consent has been given. I believe two drunk people are not raping each other if consent was given but one or both of them don't remember. I know my guy and I sometimes enjoy having sex after wine, and it is totally proper and appropriate.

    However none of that seems to apply here.

    We have an admission of photos being deliberately taken of someone putting his fingers in her vagina, and nothing to indicate she was hoping for that to happen or even particularly aware of it. When your defence is "Sorry…we deleted the photos! Isn't that good enough?" well give me a break..
    I understand what you are saying. There was clearly choice here, on both sides. I am just saying with the clear double standard in society these days for accepting anything a female "victim" says about a rape, how truthful is she being.

    I have four sisters. The one closest in age to me was the school slut. I kicked many a guy's ass about it so I know. She got herself into very similar situations numerous times. Almost all of them she sorely regretted and was very bitter over for years. Well those she could sort of remember. I am just thinking if she had thought to blame someone for her poor choices to make her feel better, she probably would have. Especially if she ruined their life. She still carries grudges against guys she did in high school.
    Last edited by Durango95; March 18th, 2013 at 04:41 PM.
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  21. #21
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Guilt verdict in the Steubenville rape(?) case

    Quote Originally Posted by Durango95 View Post
    I understand what you are saying. There was clearly choice here, on both sides. I am just saying with the clear double standard in society these days for accepting anything a female "victim" says about a rape, how truthful is she being.
    How truthful? Are we a defense attorney or prosecutor? The photos say it all. There wasn't a double standard here. Justice was applied correctly.

    I have four sisters. The one closest in age to me was the school slut. I kicked many a guy's ass about it so I know. She got herself into very similar situations numerous times. Almost all of them she sorely regretted and was very bitter over for years. Well those she could sort of remember. I am just thinking if she had thought to blame someone for her poor choices to make her feel better, she probably would have. Especially if she ruined their life. She still carries grudges against guys she did in high school.
    Um, assuming a bit about the victim in this case?

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    Re: Guilt verdict in the Steubenville rape(?) case

    Quote Originally Posted by Durango95 View Post
    I understand what you are saying. There was clearly choice here, on both sides. I am just saying with the clear double standard in society these days for accepting anything a female "victim" says about a rape, how truthful is she being.*

    I have four sisters. The one closest in age to me was the school slut. I kicked many a guy's ass about it so I know. She got herself into very similar situations numerous times. Almost all of them she sorely regretted and was very bitter over for years. Well those she could sort of remember. I am just thinking if she had thought to blame someone for her poor choices to make her feel better, she probably would have. Especially if she ruined their life. She still carries grudges against guys she did in high school.
    So, there was no rape because your sister was a slut?

    ?

    That is not reason, that is - I don't know what that is. It doesn't matter what the girl was, they are responsible for what they did PERIOD.

    Why were you supposedly running around kicking the guy's asses when it was your sister was the slut? Shouldn't you have been beating her?

    THAT looks like a clear double standard - too bad I don't believe you.
    Last edited by TX-Beau; March 18th, 2013 at 04:46 PM.
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    Re: Guilt verdict in the Steubenville rape(?) case

    Quote Originally Posted by Durango95 View Post
    I understand what you are saying. There was clearly choice here, on both sides. I am just saying with the clear double standard in society these days for accepting anything a female "victim" says about a rape, how truthful is she being.

    I have four sisters. The one closest in age to me was the school slut. I kicked many a guy's ass about it so I know. She got herself into very similar situations numerous times. Almost all of them she sorely regretted and was very bitter over for years. Well those she could sort of remember. I am just thinking if she had thought to blame someone for her poor choices to make her feel better, she probably would have. Especially if she ruined their life. She still carries grudges against guys she did in high school.
    I agree with you that "regret" is not the same as "rape." But I accept that this female was being truthful. She had the advantage of photographs to back up her position.
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  24. #24

    Re: Guilt verdict in the Steubenville rape(?) case

    Things I'm wondering...

    Where were these kids parents? This happened in the middle of the night and the kids has access to alcohol.

    Why are they making such a big deal about these boys being football players? Does that make them special? I'm well aware of hero worship of athletes but some reporters are talking more about their sports and what positions they played instead of what the victim went through.

    All too often these football player rapists get shrugged off with a "boys will be boys" and when they actually have to pay for their crimes it becomes headline news.

    Now the victim is receiving death threats because she's being blamed for ruining the rapist's lives. Disgusting.

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    Re: Guilt verdict in the Steubenville rape(?) case

    Yes well the misogynistic attitudes of some of the posters didn't come out of a vacuum.

    She was asking for it ya know, the slut, what did she expect taunting those poor, innocent dears with her filthy cunt.
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    Re: Guilt verdict in the Steubenville rape(?) case

    If only the girl had more guns...
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  27. #27

    Re: Guilt verdict in the Steubenville rape(?) case

    The one and two year sentences were not long enough.
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    Re: Guilt verdict in the Steubenville rape(?) case

    I agree with Durango. It seems to me that their "crime" is totally overblown, and the whole thing is one of those typical moral panics that Americans experience every second year. The boys' behaviour was despicable but the girl wasn't hurt, wasn't fucked and she was responsible for the situation. She lost her consciousness by drinking vodka in a party full of drunken guys. That's not exactly the code of behaviour for the girl scouts. You shouldn't send into prison everybody who once took part a wild teenager party.

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    Re: Guilt verdict in the Steubenville rape(?) case

    Quote Originally Posted by fjancsi80 View Post
    I agree with Durango. It seems to me that their "crime" is totally overblown, and the whole thing is one of those typical moral panics that Americans experience every second year. The boys' behaviour was despicable but the girl wasn't hurt, wasn't fucked and she was responsible for the situation. She lost her consciousness by drinking vodka in a party full of drunken guys. That's not exactly the code of behaviour for the girl scouts. You shouldn't send into prison everybody who once took part a wild teenager party.
    Anything you could say to slam her can be said equally for the boys. And the "she was getting drunk at a party, she should have known she was gonna get raped" argument is monstrous. You are basically saying "these things happen, it's girls' fault for not protecting themselves better." Sorry, doesn't work that way. There's no "moral panic" about punishing rapists.
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    Re: Guilt verdict in the Steubenville rape(?) case

    Are people seriously blaming the victim in this case?

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    Re: Guilt verdict in the Steubenville rape(?) case

    It was her twat that caused all the problems. Shameless whore, waving it at fine young gentlemen like that. What is wrong with her?

    LOL
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  32. #32
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Guilt verdict in the Steubenville rape(?) case

    Quote Originally Posted by fjancsi80 View Post
    I agree with Durango. It seems to me that their "crime" is totally overblown, and the whole thing is one of those typical moral panics that Americans experience every second year. The boys' behaviour was despicable but the girl wasn't hurt, wasn't fucked and she was responsible for the situation. She lost her consciousness by drinking vodka in a party full of drunken guys. That's not exactly the code of behaviour for the girl scouts. You shouldn't send into prison everybody who once took part a wild teenager party.
    Oh that's interesting... so sexual assault (and ergo rape) is just overblown? LOL. What kind of mindset in that? The girl was emotionally hurt. And assault is assault. How was she responsible for the situation? Again deflecting blame. I don't care if she was completely drunk... it doesn't excuse the rape. No moral panic at all. This is about logic and reason...

    I'm sorry but that same fucking excuse is used for anti-gay crimes. Well he was "acting too gay and he looked too gay so he got what was coming to him... maybe next time he should have been in the closet more"... SAME LAME ANSWER to excuse a despicable crime.

    I take it you wouldn't want to prosecute a rapist who targets prostitutes? Afterall they were asking for it right?
    Last edited by GiancarloC; March 19th, 2013 at 02:14 PM.

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    Re: Guilt verdict in the Steubenville rape(?) case

    She wasn't raped in the true sense of the word. Yes, I know that according to the legal definition it was rape but in fact she was mocked and humiliated when she was drunken and asleep. The same thing happens between guys in dorms and parties very often. I wouldn't send into prison somebody who yanked down the boxers of his sleeping roommate, took nude pictures about him and grabbed his cock because he tought it "funny". This behaviour is immature and rude but not criminal. And in this case I feel more sympathy with the guys whose life was wrecked by this harsh sentence than the girl who will forget the whole thing in two weeks.

  34. #34
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Guilt verdict in the Steubenville rape(?) case

    She was raped actually and sexually assaulted. There was a sexual assault without consent ergo that's a rape. That's how the legal definition is and sexual assault can result in serious jail time. If they were adults, they would have had a far more stiff sentence. And no this doesn't happen often, if it did... there would be many more criminal cases similiar to this one. And yes, sexual assault is sexual assault. It's not just "immature or rude" behavior.. and it is definitely criminal. I don't feel one shred of sympathy for those who committed the assault. People can get sentenced to jail for merely spitting on someone... assault is assault.

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    Re: Guilt verdict in the Steubenville rape(?) case

    Quote Originally Posted by fjancsi80 View Post
    She wasn't raped in the true sense of the word. Yes, I know that according to the legal definition it was rape but in fact she was mocked and humiliated when she was drunken and asleep. The same thing happens between guys in dorms and parties very often. I wouldn't send into prison somebody who yanked down the boxers of his sleeping roommate, took nude pictures about him and grabbed his cock because he tought it "funny". This behaviour is immature and rude but not criminal. And in this case I feel more sympathy with the guys whose life was wrecked by this harsh sentence than the girl who will forget the whole thing in two weeks.
    What guys do to each other in dorms by the way is just as much assault, though since there is rarely penetration, it isn't really rape most of the time. However, sometimes it is. The fact is that it's considered part of the "fun", and there's also a lot of shame, so they don't think of reporting it. When you stick a finger in a girl's vagina against her will, that's rape. Sorry if it's not "rape enough" for you.
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    Re: Guilt verdict in the Steubenville rape(?) case

    No wonder that the incarceration rate in the United States is the highest in the world. You send almost seven times as many people into prison than Europeans. Probably people should be given a second chance or some other kind of punishment which doesn't ruin their whole life.

  37. #37

    Re: Guilt verdict in the Steubenville rape(?) case

    Quote Originally Posted by fjancsi80 View Post
    She wasn't raped in the true sense of the word. Yes, I know that according to the legal definition it was rape but in fact she was mocked and humiliated when she was drunken and asleep. The same thing happens between guys in dorms and parties very often. I wouldn't send into prison somebody who yanked down the boxers of his sleeping roommate, took nude pictures about him and grabbed his cock because he tought it "funny". This behaviour is immature and rude but not criminal. And in this case I feel more sympathy with the guys whose life was wrecked by this harsh sentence than the girl who will forget the whole thing in two weeks.
    Exactly and more than likely she'll be at a similar party in the same situation. I know her kind. I have one in my family.
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  38. #38
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Guilt verdict in the Steubenville rape(?) case

    Quote Originally Posted by fjancsi80 View Post
    No wonder that the incarceration rate in the United States is the highest in the world. You send almost seven times as many people into prison than Europeans. Probably people should be given a second chance or some other kind of punishment which doesn't ruin their whole life.
    A lot of people get sent to jail for minor crimes like getting caught with weed and shop lifting. These should be fines, and weed shouldn't be illegal. Sexually assaulting someone is a MAJOR CRIME and would be prosecuted all the same in European countries. I'll tell you this as a European who understands the civil law system. I'm sure if the person faced a judge instead of a jury the punishment would have been harsher.

    Maybe they shouldn't have committed a sexual assault if they didn't want to ruin their whole lives. they were called smart students... but I really question that judgment. So whose fault is it they ruined their whole lives?

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    Re: Guilt verdict in the Steubenville rape(?) case

    Quote Originally Posted by fjancsi80 View Post
    No wonder that the incarceration rate in the United States is the highest in the world. You send almost seven times as many people into prison than Europeans. Probably people should be given a second chance or some other kind of punishment which doesn't ruin their whole life.
    Rapists don't deserve a second chance. Also, I am European. Also, Europe doesn't have the sport-fetish rape culture this continent has. Basically, you don't know what you're talking about.
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  40. #40
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Guilt verdict in the Steubenville rape(?) case

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Yeah, that's what those whores do - go around tempting men with their vaginas and then ruining their lives. Fucking sluts.
    You know... that's basically a similar kind of defense used in anti-gay hate crimes. "The accused panicked when he perceived the other person as gay... therefore it's the victims fault... he should have been in the closet and try to be more "straight acting"." It's the same pathetic defense of a crime. It boils my blood.

    The lengths people will go to excuse a crime really never ceases to amaze me!

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    Re: Guilt verdict in the Steubenville rape(?) case

    Quote Originally Posted by Durango95 View Post
    Exactly and more than likely she'll be at a similar party in the same situation. I know her kind. I have one in my family.
    Project much?

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    Re: Guilt verdict in the Steubenville rape(?) case

    Quote Originally Posted by fjancsi80 View Post
    She wasn't raped in the true sense of the word. Yes, I know that according to the legal definition it was rape but in fact she was mocked and humiliated when she was drunken and asleep. The same thing happens between guys in dorms and parties very often. I wouldn't send into prison somebody who yanked down the boxers of his sleeping roommate, took nude pictures about him and grabbed his cock because he thought it "funny". This behaviour is immature and rude but not criminal. And in this case I feel more sympathy with the guys whose life was wrecked by this harsh sentence than the girl who will forget the whole thing in two weeks.
    (emphasis mine)

    Well I don't know what life is like in Hungary but over here, that is criminal behavior as well as immature and you can go to prison for it. It's sexual assault. Anyway our prisons are full of drug offenders not rapists which is a whole other discussion, neither do YOU know what she's feeling or what she's forgetting that's just you and your attitude YOU are forcing on the situation because of your own issues.

    12 people who heard the case thought they were guilty, who exactly are you to dispute that? What do you know to be so cocky about what she's feeling and what she's forgetting?

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    Last edited by opinterph; March 21st, 2013 at 06:54 PM. Reason: removed interpersonal commentary; excessive baiting
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    Re: Guilt verdict in the Steubenville rape(?) case

    There was no jury in the case only one judge. And I still can't get over the fact that she wasn't fucked at all and she behaved irresponsibly. I don't say that the boys don't deserve any punishment. I think that the sentence is way to harsh regarding the circumstances. I tried to point at the fact that nobody regards the similar behaviour between guys a crime. I fact there are threads on this site with tons of pictures of naked, sleeping, drunken guys mocked or photographed without their knowledge. Nobody is terribly upset about them. I don't believe that girls are so special that they need more protection than males.

  44. #44
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Guilt verdict in the Steubenville rape(?) case

    Can't get over the fact? The sentence is way too harsh? Because she was asking for it? Same old nonsense excuse. This was a serious crime committed and a serious assault. Pay attention to the facts please. The sentence wasn't that harsh at all... as they won't be facing much prison time at all. Why is it always the victim's fault? Her behavior was irresponsible therefore she deserved it? It's a terrible and inadequate answer that doesn't address the facts.
    Last edited by GiancarloC; March 20th, 2013 at 10:28 AM.

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    Re: Guilt verdict in the Steubenville rape(?) case

    Quote Originally Posted by fjancsi80 View Post
    There was no jury in the case only one judge. And I still can't get over the fact that she wasn't fucked at all and she behaved irresponsibly. I don't say that the boys don't deserve any punishment. I think that the sentence is way to harsh regarding the circumstances. I tried to point at the fact that nobody regards the similar behaviour between guys a crime. I fact there are threads on this site with tons of pictures of naked, sleeping, drunken guys mocked or photographed without their knowledge. Nobody is terribly upset about them. I don't believe that girls are so special that they need more protection than males.
    How do you know what "nobody" is upset about? You know fuck all about any of it. ALL you are doing is projecting a misogynist excuse onto something no one in here is knowledgeable about.
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    Re: Guilt verdict in the Steubenville rape(?) case

    And yes, when you molest guys, they get pissed off, but a whole lot of them don't report it because they don't want to be seen as emasculated victims.

    I will give you that a lot of gay men fantasize about rape and molestation of straight guys, DOESN'T make it right or harmless either.
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    Re: Guilt verdict in the Steubenville rape(?) case

    A video with two drunk guys swinging to and fro the body of a third one (who is sleeping drunk) wouldn't even be banned by youtube. Here it was presented like a criminal proof. I am not misogynist but I don' like double standards and hysteria. And yes some people certainly upset about "straight guys partying" threads here but most users view them as harmless. At least they are not yelling and calling the police.

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    Re: Guilt verdict in the Steubenville rape(?) case

    Yeah 'cause all those straight guys "partying" are poking their fingers up each other's asses all the time, it's just good clean fun.

    Please. They raped her, by the legal definition, by the ethical definition, if she was a guy (and in fact cases where guys have done similar things with foreign objects to other guys they get no different) it would be the same.
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  49. #49
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Guilt verdict in the Steubenville rape(?) case

    Quote Originally Posted by fjancsi80 View Post
    A video with two drunk guys swinging to and fro the body of a third one (who is sleeping drunk) wouldn't even be banned by youtube. Here it was presented like a criminal proof. I am not misogynist but I don' like double standards and hysteria. And yes some people certainly upset about "straight guys partying" threads here but most users view them as harmless. At least they are not yelling and calling the police.
    What double standards? If an assault is done without consent, even if it is done on a male criminal charges can be filed. Do you know that hazing charges are being filed at an increasing rate throughout the country? This isn't about double standards or hysteria. This case is about justice being served. It was sexual assault and rape. Plain and simple. These are legal definitions.

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    Re: Guilt verdict in the Steubenville rape(?) case

    Quote Originally Posted by fjancsi80 View Post
    There was no jury in the case only one judge. And I still can't get over the fact that she wasn't fucked at all and she behaved irresponsibly. I don't say that the boys don't deserve any punishment. I think that the sentence is way to harsh regarding the circumstances. I tried to point at the fact that nobody regards the similar behaviour between guys a crime. I fact there are threads on this site with tons of pictures of naked, sleeping, drunken guys mocked or photographed without their knowledge. Nobody is terribly upset about them. I don't believe that girls are so special that they need more protection than males.
    As a matter of biological fact, girls DO need more protection than males. Also, circumstances are not the same, because in most of the cases you describe, boys aren't sexual victims of other boys, just of pranks. And the girl WAS "fucked". Just because it was with a finger, changes absolutely nothing.
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