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  1. #1
    Back to Creepy Old Fart Yooper's Avatar
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    Elephant in the room: Civil Union--Yay or Nay?

    First the good news: Civil Unions become Legal in Colorado May 1!

    Now the dilemma: Should we even have the discussion? Should we do it? Is it necessary?

    The Background: We've been together, for, like, forever. Since 1988. Longer than many of the posters on this board are old! We could be your parents! We've been through a lot, death of both of his parents, my brother, my Grandmother. We're asset rich and cash poor. When he became eligible to go on my Health Insurance, we had to file an affadavit and have it notarized. Because he's older than me by 15 years, when he became eligible for Medicare, he went on that and off of my Medical insurance. We've had wills prepared, and also Power of Attorney for Medical reasons. So we've pretty much already covered the bases.

    The only remaining relatives we have is my Mom and his two Sisters, plus my half-brother. Mom has made arrangements in case I kick the bucket (before my Partner) that my Partner gets to make the decisions and will inherit, rather than my brother. The only remaining asset the Partner jointly owns with the Sisters is the family home which doesn't amount to much, dollar wise, and if my Partner kicks the bucket, his sisters are friendly enough to me that I would get our 'stuff' out of that house with little difficulty.

    So bottom line, we're well covered without making the Civil Union leap. I think.

    I'm sure there some T's uncrossed and some I's undotted, but I really don't see any need to make it 'legal.' We're even already on each other's vehicle titles.

    So, the question is, do we even need to take the upcoming leap? Since the Federal Government won't recognize the Union, I wouldn't be able to collect as a survivor on his Social Security or Pension (which since it kicked in last fall has been extremely helpful).

    Any thoughtful input would be appreciated!
    Last edited by Yooper; March 17th, 2013 at 02:50 AM.

  2. #2
    Coward92
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    Re: Elephant in the room: Civil Union--Yay or Nay?

    I'm not sure what to say.
    I congratulate you on having such a wonderful partner in life. It must be a blessing to live with someone like him and I wish you both happyness.

    I don't like that we had to create "civil union" because the straights believe that by calling it marriage, societies would tremble and they would be robbed of their privelege of living a normal life.

    I wouldn't agree to civil union, I would however agree to marriage.

    But feel free. It is your decision.

  3. #3
    ForeverSingle+Unloveable 72-Jay's Avatar
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    Re: Elephant in the room: Civil Union--Yay or Nay?

    Yep Gov. Hickenlooper signs the civil unions bill at 3:00pm tomorrow (March 21)
    If I could make it I'd be half tempted to go down into Denver & attend the signing event....

    -------
    Yooper:
    First I wanna say: Congrats on having been together for all those years.
    Like Coward92, I'm not sure what to say when it comes to whether to go for a civil union. It sounds like you guys have already done some estate planning & such.
    I think it'd be something to talk over with your partner... do you want that piece of paper to make things "official"? (I put official in quotes meaning 'in the name of the law' ... but as far as relationships go personally I see love & commitment as whats important not a government document).

  4. #4
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: Elephant in the room: Civil Union--Yay or Nay?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yooper View Post
    First the good news: Civil Unions become Legal in Colorado May 1!

    Now the dilemma: Should we even have the discussion? Should we do it? Is it necessary?

    The Background: We've been together, for, like, forever. Since 1988. Longer than many of the posters on this board are old! We could be your parents! We've been through a lot, death of both of his parents, my brother, my Grandmother. We're asset rich and cash poor. When he became eligible to go on my Health Insurance, we had to file an affadavit and have it notarized. Because he's older than me by 15 years, when he became eligible for Medicare, he went on that and off of my Medical insurance. We've had wills prepared, and also Power of Attorney for Medical reasons. So we've pretty much already covered the bases.

    The only remaining relatives we have is my Mom and his two Sisters, plus my half-brother. Mom has made arrangements in case I kick the bucket (before my Partner) that my Partner gets to make the decisions and will inherit, rather than my brother. The only remaining asset the Partner jointly owns with the Sisters is the family home which doesn't amount to much, dollar wise, and if my Partner kicks the bucket, his sisters are friendly enough to me that I would get our 'stuff' out of that house with little difficulty.

    So bottom line, we're well covered without making the Civil Union leap. I think.

    I'm sure there some T's uncrossed and some I's undotted, but I really don't see any need to make it 'legal.' We're even already on each other's vehicle titles.

    So, the question is, do we even need to take the upcoming leap? Since the Federal Government won't recognize the Union, I wouldn't be able to collect as a survivor on his Social Security or Pension (which since it kicked in last fall has been extremely helpful).

    Any thoughtful input would be appreciated!
    All this happened a decade ago in Canada, and laws were changing one-by-one at the provincial or federal level. For a while, there was no marriage but common-law same sex couples were recognised, based on the date they had been cohabiting for a year. In some cases, "proving" couple status could be complicated if people had two properties or moved or worked separately for part of the year or whatever. Having something like civil partnership would overcome that kind of complication because it counts as proof, especially if laws are in the middle of changing when you might become entitled to benefits.
    Last edited by bankside; March 20th, 2013 at 09:45 PM.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  5. #5
    M10000
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    Re: Elephant in the room: Civil Union--Yay or Nay?


  6. #6
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: Elephant in the room: Civil Union--Yay or Nay?

    As a single guy, I think civil unions are an insult in 2013. With so many states pushing for marriage equality and even SCOTUS debating it, I think we should not settle for anything less anymore.

    But I think my opinion would change if I were with someone and we lived in a civil union state. I am not sure it would be completely reverse, but I would consider it for sure.

    My advice would still be for you to wait until SCOTUS reaches its decision on the Prop 8 and DOMA cases, and we see where we are when the dust settles.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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  7. #7
    RazorzEdge88
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    Re: Elephant in the room: Civil Union--Yay or Nay?

    I've read some real horror stories about same-sex couples creating documents like those you mentioned and still NOT having them honored (in a timely fashion) at hospitals, etc. just because their unions weren't solemnized by the state.

    I say go for it. I imagine it wouldn't cost very much time/effort. You probably have more to lose by not doing it, no matter how secure you feel.

  8. #8
    Back to Creepy Old Fart Yooper's Avatar
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    Re: Elephant in the room: Civil Union--Yay or Nay?

    Thank you all for your input, it is actually been valuable! Please keep the opinions coming!

    There are a few folks on this board that know me in Real Life, and might know that although we've been together forever, there are issues. My Partner has been chronically Depressed for several years now, and change is not something that comes easily to him. So I hesitate very strongly to even bring up the conversation. Had this happened last year (before Medicare), my employer would have REQUIRED us to 'pull the trigger' within six months to retain the Health Insurance. But that being a moot point now, I'm not sure if it is necessary to even have the [incredibly stressful and potentially confrontational] conversation!

    Like all relationships, we've got issues!

    The biggest issue in the future is if there is a Medical problem. Visitation CAN be an issue in many places, but the small-ish town we're currently living in is pretty much not a problem; the decision making would be, but his Sisters would have no problem listening to me (and signing off as required). We haven't done the Medical POA, about the only thing that isn't covered...and would be covered if we got a Civil Union.

    Again, thanks for the continuing input...I look forward to others chiming in.

  9. #9
    JockBoy87
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    Re: Elephant in the room: Civil Union--Yay or Nay?

    Without a marriage or civil union, your partner's relatives can override any contract you had, take your partner's body after he dies, kick you out of your house, take your property, and ban you from the funeral.

    You are NOT family under the law if you only have contracts, and contracts cannot violate your partner's family's rights.

  10. #10
    Sex God skinIsIn's Avatar
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    Re: Elephant in the room: Civil Union--Yay or Nay?

    As long as the Centennial State has done the right thing and made "Civil Unions" indistinguishable from "Marriages," as defined by Colorado law,(god damned DOMA) I think you both should go for it. It will clear up all those potential ambiguities and/or challenges to the integrity and validity of your familial unit. The last thing you want is someone in your family suddenly have a born-again, "come to Jeezus" moment of "clarity" and discredit and invalidate the whole of your shared lives.

    It's just a shame we can't have committed, enviable, Long-Term Relationships, such as yours be retroactively recognized....like a reduced sentence for "time served" and/or "good behavior" JK!!

    Seriously, congratulations on twenty-six wonderful years of queer, wedded bliss!
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    I don't half fancy you, meet me outside at five-thirty and we'll get it together!
    ...Get wha-?" --Mrs. Slocombe, AYBS?

  11. #11
    JUB Addict figjam's Avatar
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    Re: Elephant in the room: Civil Union--Yay or Nay?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yooper View Post
    First the good news: Civil Unions become Legal in Colorado May 1!

    Now the dilemma: Should we even have the discussion? Should we do it? Is it necessary?
    ? You want it or not....

  12. #12
    It ain't easy being King MisterMajestic's Avatar
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    Re: Elephant in the room: Civil Union--Yay or Nay?

    Yooper, I ALWAYS made fun of Governor John Hickenlooper's last name...Then I stopped laughing and became PROUD of him and his strong words after we lost so many Lives during the shooting @ the Local Bat-Man premier...He was Presidential in his Speech about the tragedy.

    Now comes a Historical moment....In a state that could Flip Right or Left on the State And Federal election level Gov. Hickenlooper did the RIGHT thing by signing the Same Sex Civil Unions bill. It's the FIRST MAJOR step that any State Legislature can make towards acknowledging Gay Rights.

    So far Gov. Hickenlooper has my vote as Hillary's Vice-Presidential running mate in 2016...Both Confirmed their Stand on Gay Rights like GANG Busters this week...

  13. #13
    RazorzEdge88
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    Re: Elephant in the room: Civil Union--Yay or Nay?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yooper View Post
    Thank you all for your input, it is actually been valuable! Please keep the opinions coming!

    There are a few folks on this board that know me in Real Life, and might know that although we've been together forever, there are issues. My Partner has been chronically Depressed for several years now, and change is not something that comes easily to him. So I hesitate very strongly to even bring up the conversation. Had this happened last year (before Medicare), my employer would have REQUIRED us to 'pull the trigger' within six months to retain the Health Insurance. But that being a moot point now, I'm not sure if it is necessary to even have the [incredibly stressful and potentially confrontational] conversation!

    Like all relationships, we've got issues!

    The biggest issue in the future is if there is a Medical problem. Visitation CAN be an issue in many places, but the small-ish town we're currently living in is pretty much not a problem; the decision making would be, but his Sisters would have no problem listening to me (and signing off as required). We haven't done the Medical POA, about the only thing that isn't covered...and would be covered if we got a Civil Union.

    Again, thanks for the continuing input...I look forward to others chiming in.
    That's probably the biggest issue. The news blurb I recently read about a gay couple being screwed over by not having relationship recognition was due to the spouse not being able to make a medical decision for their partner while they were in the hospital and required urgent surgery. Not to beat the dead horse and sound too forceful, but with more resolve, I say you should go for it.

    But it sounds like your situation is indeed tricky, so good luck with whatever you do.

    Quote Originally Posted by figjam View Post
    ? You want it or not....
    Quote Originally Posted by MisterMajestic View Post
    Yooper, I ALWAYS made fun of Governor John Hickenlooper's last name...Then I stopped laughing and became PROUD of him and his strong words after we lost so many Lives during the shooting @ the Local Bat-Man premier...He was Presidential in his Speech about the tragedy.

    Now comes a Historical moment....In a state that could Flip Right or Left on the State And Federal election level Gov. Hickenlooper did the RIGHT thing by signing the Same Sex Civil Unions bill. It's the FIRST MAJOR step that any State Legislature can make towards acknowledging Gay Rights.

    So far Gov. Hickenlooper has my vote as Hillary's Vice-Presidential running mate in 2016...Both Confirmed their Stand on Gay Rights like GANG Busters this week...
    God, we can't even avoid stupid non sequiturs from obvious trolls in a deeply personal thread like this? And people wonder why I spit venom everywhere around here...

  14. #14
    ForeverSingle+Unloveable 72-Jay's Avatar
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    Re: Elephant in the room: Civil Union--Yay or Nay?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yooper
    There are a few folks on this board that know me in Real Life, and might know that although we've been together forever, there are issues. My Partner has been chronically Depressed for several years now, and change is not something that comes easily to him. So I hesitate very strongly to even bring up the conversation. Had this happened last year (before Medicare), my employer would have REQUIRED us to 'pull the trigger' within six months to retain the Health Insurance. But that being a moot point now, I'm not sure if it is necessary to even have the [incredibly stressful and potentially confrontational] conversation!
    What about very casually bringing it up? Even if its nothing more than seeing his thoughts on Civil Unions in general?


    Quote Originally Posted by Yooper
    The biggest issue in the future is if there is a Medical problem. Visitation CAN be an issue in many places, but the small-ish town we're currently living in is pretty much not a problem; the decision making would be, but his Sisters would have no problem listening to me (and signing off as required). We haven't done the Medical POA, about the only thing that isn't covered...and would be covered if we got a Civil Union.
    I too have seen the news reports of gay couples being screwed (even when they thought they had things covered) by not having relationship recognition.
    When it comes to hospitals/etc denying decision making and/or visitation
    I think some of course do it out of dislike for gays
    But others do it basically to protect themselves from getting sued (since in the eyes of the law a gay partner usually has no more rights than some random dude off the street)

  15. #15

    Re: Elephant in the room: Civil Union--Yay or Nay?

    Quote Originally Posted by skinIsIn View Post
    As long as the Centennial State has done the right thing and made "Civil Unions" indistinguishable from "Marriages," as defined by Colorado law,(god damned DOMA) I think you both should go for it.
    I know, right? (Nice font. Ow!)

    And even if the "Centennial State" hasn't made you fully right, so what! If it's all about crossed T's and dotted I's, then cross them and dot them.

    I love a good dilemma, but I fail to see one here. What are you waiting for, Yooper?

  16. #16
    JUB Addict Ninja108's Avatar
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    Re: Elephant in the room: Civil Union--Yay or Nay?

    It's all about having some of the rights for now even if it is still seperate but unequal.

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