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  1. #1
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    Lyndon B. Johnson's tapes reveal Richard Nixon's treasonous act

    Perhaps old news to some. Declassification sheds light on rumors.

    I think every POTUS should have their office bugged for posterity.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21768668

    In a series of remarkable White House recordings we can hear Johnson's reaction to the news.

    In one call to Senator Richard Russell he says: "We have found that our friend, the Republican nominee, our California friend, has been playing on the outskirts with our enemies and our friends both, he has been doing it through rather subterranean sources. Mrs Chennault is warning the South Vietnamese not to get pulled into this Johnson move."

    He orders the Nixon campaign to be placed under FBI surveillance and demands to know if Nixon is personally involved.

    When he became convinced it was being orchestrated by the Republican candidate, the president called Senator Everett Dirksen, the Republican leader in the Senate to get a message to Nixon.

    The president knew what was going on, Nixon should back off and the subterfuge amounted to treason.


  2. #2
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    Re: Lyndon B. Johnson's tapes reveal Richard Nixon's treasonous act

    Neither one looks good here.... but as bad as Johnson was getting us into Vietnam so deep,and his machinations to reclaim the presidential nomination from the Democrats, though he backed off in the end... Nixon was truly vile and treacherous and damn if any of this had come out our whole history these past four plus decades later would have been changed immensely. Damn Nixon really was a sociopath....so many more dying in his actual extension of the war after his "election". I don't care if it's Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, Bush II, Obama or who occupies the office in the future, I agree here with star-warrior.
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  3. #3

    Re: Lyndon B. Johnson's tapes reveal Richard Nixon's treasonous act

    It is not treason, based on what little we know. It would not have been illegal for Nixon to speak to our allies, the South Vietnamese, nor to the North Vietnamese, without knowing what was said. Nixon was a far more honest and honorable man than either Johnson, or Kennedy.

  4. #4

    Re: Lyndon B. Johnson's tapes reveal Richard Nixon's treasonous act

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    It is not treason, based on what little we know. It would not have been illegal for Nixon to speak to our allies, the South Vietnamese, nor to the North Vietnamese, without knowing what was said. Nixon was a far more honest and honorable man than either Johnson, or Kennedy.
    I wouldn't go that far. Nixon was a sleazoid. I'd say he was cut from the very same cloth as Johnson or Kennedy.
    Only government can take perfectly good paper, cover it with perfectly good ink and make the combination worthless.

  5. #5
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Lyndon B. Johnson's tapes reveal Richard Nixon's treasonous act

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    It is not treason, based on what little we know. It would not have been illegal for Nixon to speak to our allies, the South Vietnamese, nor to the North Vietnamese, without knowing what was said. Nixon was a far more honest and honorable man than either Johnson, or Kennedy.


    Is this a joke? Nixon was one of the most dirty Presidents since Harding. Johnson and Kennedy may have had their skeletons, but nothing compared to what Nixon was all about...

  6. #6

    Re: Lyndon B. Johnson's tapes reveal Richard Nixon's treasonous act

    Nonsense. Watergate was a minor incident, no different from what other Presidents do, but blown out of proportion by the Democrats and their slavish media. When Clinton's mistress said on tape that the President had told her to lie under oath, the Democrats wanted to brush it aside as unimportant. Kennedy hid his serious Addison's disease and all his many mistresses, including the one he shared with a Mob boss,

  7. #7
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Lyndon B. Johnson's tapes reveal Richard Nixon's treasonous act

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Nonsense. Watergate was a minor incident, no different from what other Presidents do, but blown out of proportion by the Democrats and their slavish media. When Clinton's mistress said on tape that the President had told her to lie under oath, the Democrats wanted to brush it aside as unimportant. Kennedy hid his serious Addison's disease and all his many mistresses, including the one he shared with a Mob boss,
    What a pile of rubbish to say in the least. Watergate was a "minor incident"? It wasn't blown "out of proportion" by the media. There were serious criminal misconduct. And as far as Clinton... cheap shot. That was blown out of proportion by republicans who wanted to bring Clinton down but failed... much like how republicans try to take cheapshots at Obama, but fail miserably. I think a history lesson is required here.

    Watergate was by no means a "minor incident". it was gross misconduct by the President that should have landed him in jail. Nixon was the most dirty president since Harding. And please come at me with something more than just the same ridiculous conjectures.
    Last edited by GiancarloC; March 17th, 2013 at 10:12 AM.

  8. #8

    Re: Lyndon B. Johnson's tapes reveal Richard Nixon's treasonous act

    Nixon had a lot of character issues. Paranoia got the best of him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Nonsense. Watergate was a minor incident, no different from what other Presidents do, but blown out of proportion by the Democrats and their slavish media. When Clinton's mistress said on tape that the President had told her to lie under oath, the Democrats wanted to brush it aside as unimportant. Kennedy hid his serious Addison's disease and all his many mistresses, including the one he shared with a Mob boss,
    Oh Christ, now you're dismissing Watergate?!?!

    You really stick your neck out for your political party. There are a lot of us who lived through it and re-writing history isn't going to change it.

  9. #9
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    Re: Lyndon B. Johnson's tapes reveal Richard Nixon's treasonous act

    Quote Originally Posted by Sausy View Post
    Neither one looks good here.... but as bad as Johnson was getting us into Vietnam so deep,and his machinations to reclaim the presidential nomination from the Democrats, though he backed off in the end... Nixon was truly vile and treacherous and damn if any of this had come out our whole history these past four plus decades later would have been changed immensely. Damn Nixon really was a sociopath....so many more dying in his actual extension of the war after his "election". I don't care if it's Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, Bush II, Obama or who occupies the office in the future, I agree here with star-warrior.
    I think everyone in the forum knows what an ass I became last night and I apologize for it. The reason, ironically, was Vietnam, and now this. It had to come out of BBC. That is why I like the BBC.
    I don't think I have mentioned on the forum that I am a Vietnam Veteran in the Navy. I have been becoming involved with Veteran websites and a lot of my time these days are with that. My radio station has started playing a song about a man who lost his brother in whatever senseless war. I have been crying all day yesterday and actually crying about my partners death. So please forgive me and I will turn off the radio when that song comes on.
    BEWARE! Harassing the Indian may result in sudden and severe hair loss.

  10. #10
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    Re: Lyndon B. Johnson's tapes reveal Richard Nixon's treasonous act

    Nixon used to make great cookie.....

    Johnson had some brownies that were to die for......

    Really ??? we are arguing about Nixon and Johnson... lol

    fuck me
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  11. #11
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    Re: Lyndon B. Johnson's tapes reveal Richard Nixon's treasonous act

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    fuck me
    OK. Bend over!


  12. #12
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    Re: Lyndon B. Johnson's tapes reveal Richard Nixon's treasonous act

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Nonsense. Watergate was a minor incident, no different from what other Presidents do, but blown out of proportion by the Democrats and their slavish media. When Clinton's mistress said on tape that the President had told her to lie under oath, the Democrats wanted to brush it aside as unimportant. Kennedy hid his serious Addison's disease and all his many mistresses, including the one he shared with a Mob boss,
    It wasn't the break-in. It was the cover-up. This was not a minor incident. It was a Constitutional crisis. Check a reputable history book if you are able to identify one. Squared away by 1974.

    the Democrats and their slavish media.

    ...with history the final judge of our deeds. - JFK

  13. #13

    Re: Lyndon B. Johnson's tapes reveal Richard Nixon's treasonous act

    ... and you and others were just trashing Bob Woodward for exposing the lies of the Obama Administration.

    Can it get any more ridiculous.

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyBob View Post
    Nixon had a lot of character issues. Paranoia got the best of him.



    Oh Christ, now you're dismissing Watergate?!?!

    You really stick your neck out for your political party. There are a lot of us who lived through it and re-writing history isn't going to change it.

  14. #14
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    Re: Lyndon B. Johnson's tapes reveal Richard Nixon's treasonous act

    It had to happen. Now it is a bash Obama thread.
    BEWARE! Harassing the Indian may result in sudden and severe hair loss.

  15. #15
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Lyndon B. Johnson's tapes reveal Richard Nixon's treasonous act

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    ... and you and others were just trashing Bob Woodward for exposing the lies of the Obama Administration.

    Can it get any more ridiculous.
    What's ridiculous? Woodward had his time in the spotlight 40 years ago. Obama didn't commit any crime which Nixon did. Woodward has sputtered off into irrelevance. He's not an insider and he hasn't a clue what's going on in the Obama administration.

    Asides from that, this thread is about Johnson's tapes on Nixon. Stop trying to bring up Obama because your political party is failing miserably.

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    Re: Lyndon B. Johnson's tapes reveal Richard Nixon's treasonous act

    Quote Originally Posted by star-warrior View Post
    OK. Bend over!
    it'd be damn sight more entertaining than this discussion... but yeah I know I know... if you aint got nothing nice to say and all.... :P
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
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  17. #17
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    Re: Lyndon B. Johnson's tapes reveal Richard Nixon's treasonous act

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    it'd be damn sight more entertaining than this discussion...:P
    ............

    ...with history the final judge of our deeds. - JFK

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    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Lyndon B. Johnson's tapes reveal Richard Nixon's treasonous act

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrobin View Post
    ............

    lol OK YOU ASKED FOR IT....your gonna hafta feed me first

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  19. #19

    Re: Lyndon B. Johnson's tapes reveal Richard Nixon's treasonous act

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    ... and you and others were just trashing Bob Woodward for exposing the lies of the Obama Administration.

    Can it get any more ridiculous.
    The only ridiculous crap here are your lies Springer.

    Show me the post where I trashed Bob Woodward. Post a link to it.

    And FYI, you're not supposed to bring arguments from one thread to another but when have you ever followed the rules.

    Can it get any more ridiculous.


    Quote Originally Posted by White Eagle View Post
    It had to happen. Now it is a bash Obama thread.
    He turns every thread into a bash Obama thread. It's his obsessive hatred for the man.

  20. #20
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    Re: Lyndon B. Johnson's tapes reveal Richard Nixon's treasonous act

    That's how they roll in the UnderBridge.
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  21. #21
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    Re: Lyndon B. Johnson's tapes reveal Richard Nixon's treasonous act

    Why does it not surprise me that Nixon would betray his country in order to achieve his political goals?

    Humphrey should have made it all public.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  22. #22
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    Re: Lyndon B. Johnson's tapes reveal Richard Nixon's treasonous act

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Why does it not surprise me that Nixon would betray his country in order to achieve his political goals?
    What would you expect from a paranoid megalomaniac?

    ...with history the final judge of our deeds. - JFK

  23. #23
    JUB Addict Sausy's Avatar
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    Re: Lyndon B. Johnson's tapes reveal Richard Nixon's treasonous act

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    It is not treason, based on what little we know. It would not have been illegal for Nixon to speak to our allies, the South Vietnamese, nor to the North Vietnamese, without knowing what was said. Nixon was a far more honest and honorable man than either Johnson, or Kennedy.
    Excuse me, knowing we were close to possibly starting talks to end the war and then Nixon decides he has to prevent it and gives incentives to the South Vietnamese NOT to talk so he can pretend to be the candidate with a plan for the end of the war....WHICH HE EXPANDED after his narrow victory? Johnson was a jerk in a lot of ways in my book....but he couldn't hold a candle in sheer capacity for evil and duplicity as that perverse Richard Milhous Nixon!

    I knew Nixon was pretty nasty, a bundle of contradictions as a big government Republican who was also a hateful bigot and divider, the father of the racially charged "Southern Strategy" to woo disaffected ultraconservative Southern Democrats to his Republican "Silent Majority". But his machinations changed history by not getting exposed in a major way. JayHawk is dead wrong on dismissing the impact of this as well.

    Those on the left, who don't hold their guy's feet to the fire and demand accountability and transparency from our leadership and press are no heroes either. It still however stands that what the BBC has released is the fullest documentation of a shocking historic act of treasonous proportions, and YES it does equate to that. It's trite but those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it....and it becomes even more problematic and dfangerous when only a few know exactly what terrible things are going on but for their own purposes, keep the truth bottled up.
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  24. #24
    JubberClubber White Eagle's Avatar
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    Re: Lyndon B. Johnson's tapes reveal Richard Nixon's treasonous act

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrobin View Post
    ............
    I'm waiting to see if page 2 is any better.
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  25. #25

    Re: Lyndon B. Johnson's tapes reveal Richard Nixon's treasonous act

    The real question is, what evidence is their that Nixon encouraged the South to withdraw from the talks. So far it is only an assertion by BBC.

  26. #26
    I can't breathe. chrisrobin's Avatar
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    Re: Lyndon B. Johnson's tapes reveal Richard Nixon's treasonous act

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    The real question is, what evidence is their that Nixon encouraged the South to withdraw from the talks. So far it is only an assertion by BBC.
    The real question? Due to the Freedom of Information Act, the conversation between Nixon and Everett McKinley Dirksen (R. Illinois) tape has been released, expressing the above "Republicon Dirty Tricks".... more than only an assertion by the BBC. The real question is your inability to provide actual facts here.

    Nice try.

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  27. #27
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    Re: Lyndon B. Johnson's tapes reveal Richard Nixon's treasonous act

    Richard Nixon's successor, Gerald Ford, one said something to this effect: "Any man who needs an enemies list, to keep track of his enemies, has too many enemies."

    Nixon was paranoid and he was corrupt.

    Turning points in the Republican party, in the ruthlessness, were with Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan. 1968 and 1980 were Republican pickup years with the presidency, but part of what sank the incumbent Democratic party of those elections were Vietnam and the Iran Hostage Crisis. Nixon and Reagan didn't want them resolved before Election Day because it would not have otherwise been beneficial; though I do think it wouldn't have mattered. The Democrats blew up in 1968; Jimmy Carter, who was unpopular in his party (like Lyndon Johnson), had inflation having sunk his presidency before the hostage situation.

    I recommend viewing The Presidents, which was a special (it gets rebroadcast occasionally) from the A&E/History Channel programmer[s]. It's available on DVD and does a good job, in part, with covering what sank Nixon's presidency. He was re-elected in 1972 with 49 states and 521 electoral votes (a faithless elector made it 520) despite Watergate. Shortly after re-election, Nixon was on his way to impeachment. (The Watergate plane crash, Flight 553 in Chicago on 12.08.1972, showed that assassination wasn't above this Nixon White House.) His vice-presidential running mate in both elections, former Maryland Gov. Spiro Agnew, resigned in 1973 (charges) and was replaced by the former minority leader of the House of Representatives, Gerald Ford. And, in 1974, Nixon was so far gone ("I'm not a crook!") that Arizona U.S. Sen. and 1964 Republican presidential nominee Barry "Mr. Conservative" Goldwater told Nixon he had needed to resign the presidency.

    The tapes aren't terribly surprising.
    Last edited by CoolBlue71; March 18th, 2013 at 07:09 AM.

  28. #28

    Re: Lyndon B. Johnson's tapes reveal Richard Nixon's treasonous act

    You guys are making the assertions, the burden is upon you to produce facts first.

  29. #29
    I can't breathe. chrisrobin's Avatar
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    Re: Lyndon B. Johnson's tapes reveal Richard Nixon's treasonous act

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    You guys are making the assertions, the burden is upon you to produce facts first.
    I don't even know why I'm doing this. What you read are not assertions. Richard M. Nixon resigned from the presidency on August 8, 1974. This is not an assertion. The burden of proof is not mine because we are not in open court. Nixon's dead. Your defense is not required. If you would like to visit his shrine, it is located in Yorba Linda, California. Please Google assertion.

    ...with history the final judge of our deeds. - JFK

  30. #30
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Lyndon B. Johnson's tapes reveal Richard Nixon's treasonous act

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    You guys are making the assertions, the burden is upon you to produce facts first.
    They are not assertions. And where is the proof and facts to prove your argument? I have not seen one shred of EVIDENCE.

  31. #31

    Re: Lyndon B. Johnson's tapes reveal Richard Nixon's treasonous act

    Evidence would consist of actual quotations of testimony of persons who witnessed the conversations, or admissions by Nixon. Assertions by the newspaper are not evidence.
    Nixon was not impeached for talking to the Vietnamese, so that is not evidence.

  32. #32
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    Re: Lyndon B. Johnson's tapes reveal Richard Nixon's treasonous act

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Evidence would consist of actual quotations of testimony of persons who witnessed the conversations, or admissions by Nixon. Assertions by the newspaper are not evidence*.
    Nixon was not impeached for talking to the Vietnamese, so that is not evidence.
    Niixon was not impeached.

    *Would you find the actual conversation between Johnson and Dirksen acceptable, or do we need to hold a seance?

    ...with history the final judge of our deeds. - JFK

  33. #33
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Lyndon B. Johnson's tapes reveal Richard Nixon's treasonous act

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Evidence would consist of actual quotations of testimony of persons who witnessed the conversations, or admissions by Nixon. Assertions by the newspaper are not evidence.
    Nixon was not impeached for talking to the Vietnamese, so that is not evidence.
    Again, not one shred of proof for any of these claims.

  34. #34

    Re: Lyndon B. Johnson's tapes reveal Richard Nixon's treasonous act

    Now I see the problem. You think that conclusions in newspapers are evidence.

  35. #35

    Re: Lyndon B. Johnson's tapes reveal Richard Nixon's treasonous act

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Now I see the problem. You think that conclusions in newspapers are evidence.
    Were you even around when Nixon was committing his crimes or is something you learned in history class? You've got it all wrong.

  36. #36

    Re: Lyndon B. Johnson's tapes reveal Richard Nixon's treasonous act

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyBob View Post
    Were you even around when Nixon was committing his crimes or is something you learned in history class? You've got it all wrong.
    There has never been proof of the Democrat claim that he interfered with negotiations. Newspaper conclusions are not proof.

  37. #37

    Re: Lyndon B. Johnson's tapes reveal Richard Nixon's treasonous act

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    There has never been proof of the Democrat claim that he interfered with negotiations. Newspaper conclusions are not proof.
    You didn't answer my question... do you remember this firsthand or did you read about this in some book you were handed.

  38. #38
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    Re: Lyndon B. Johnson's tapes reveal Richard Nixon's treasonous act

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    There has never been proof of the Democrat claim that he interfered with negotiations. Newspaper conclusions are not proof.
    LOL

    ...there is no Gorilla in the room......there is no Gorilla in the room......there is no Gorilla in the room......there is no Gorilla in the room...
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  39. #39
    I can't breathe. chrisrobin's Avatar
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    Re: Lyndon B. Johnson's tapes reveal Richard Nixon's treasonous act

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    There has never been proof of the Democrat Democratic claim that he interfered with negotiations. Newspaper conclusions are not proof.
    There has never been proof that you exist.



    The tapes are in his briefcase.

    ...with history the final judge of our deeds. - JFK

  40. #40
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Lyndon B. Johnson's tapes reveal Richard Nixon's treasonous act

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyBob View Post
    Were you even around when Nixon was committing his crimes or is something you learned in history class? You've got it all wrong.
    Probably not lol. Some just defend anyone who has an "R" next to their name.

  41. #41

    Re: Lyndon B. Johnson's tapes reveal Richard Nixon's treasonous act

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyBob View Post
    You didn't answer my question... do you remember this firsthand or did you read about this in some book you were handed.
    I was around. I would not consider media reports to be first hand.

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    Re: Lyndon B. Johnson's tapes reveal Richard Nixon's treasonous act

    I wasn't, and even I can see you're just trying to hide from the facts.
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

  43. #43

    Re: Lyndon B. Johnson's tapes reveal Richard Nixon's treasonous act

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    I wasn't, and even I can see you're just trying to hide from the facts.
    If you had been around you would know that this claim of negotiating with the Vietnamese was not part of the impeachment, and has never been more than a rumor.

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    Re: Lyndon B. Johnson's tapes reveal Richard Nixon's treasonous act

    I wasn't around and even I know that Nixon wasn't impeached, he resigned. Of course this wasn't part of something that didn't happen.

    ...there is no Gorilla in the room......there is no Gorilla in the room......there is no Gorilla in the room......there is no Gorilla in the room...


    LOL
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  45. #45
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    Re: Lyndon B. Johnson's tapes reveal Richard Nixon's treasonous act

    Oh Springer.

    And Benvolio....

    I for one am so glad that you have found one another.

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    Re: Lyndon B. Johnson's tapes reveal Richard Nixon's treasonous act

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    Oh Springer.

    And Benvolio....

    I for one am so glad that you have found one another.
    Me too! But they can never have children.

    ...with history the final judge of our deeds. - JFK

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    Re: Lyndon B. Johnson's tapes reveal Richard Nixon's treasonous act

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    I was around. I would not consider media reports to be first hand.
    How nice for you. If tapes were enough to force Nixon to resign, a taped conversation between Johnson and Dirken should qualify as legitimate. It's called a primary source for those of us who have done research.

    Ed Note: We have no proof that we actually went to the Moon. All we have to show for it is a bunch of lousy rocks.
    Last edited by chrisrobin; March 19th, 2013 at 08:12 AM.

    ...with history the final judge of our deeds. - JFK

  48. #48

    Re: Lyndon B. Johnson's tapes reveal Richard Nixon's treasonous act

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrobin View Post
    How nice for you. If tapes were enough to force Nixon to resign, a taped conversation between Johnson and Dirken should qualify as legitimate. It's called a primary source for those of us who have done research.

    Ed Note: We have no proof that we actually went to the Moon. All we have to show for it is a bunch of lousy rocks.
    No, in a case against Nixon the tapes would be inadmissible. Johnson does not say what his sources were. "we have learned....". Lack of foundation. Hearsay on its face. More importantly, he does not tell us what he learned. He characterizes it as "playing on the outskirts". Characterizations and conclusions from the actual evidence are not evidence. What actual information is Johnson basing his conclusions
    on? His sources might be admissible, Johnson's characterizations from themwould not be admissible.

  49. #49
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Lyndon B. Johnson's tapes reveal Richard Nixon's treasonous act

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    No, in a case against Nixon the tapes would be inadmissible. Johnson does not say what his sources were. "we have learned....". Lack of foundation. Hearsay on its face. More importantly, he does not tell us what he learned. He characterizes it as "playing on the outskirts". Characterizations and conclusions from the actual evidence are not evidence. What actual information is Johnson basing his conclusions
    on? His sources might be admissible, Johnson's characterizations from themwould not be admissible.
    LOL... this is such a misconception of the legal system I don't even know what else to say.

  50. #50

    Re: Lyndon B. Johnson's tapes reveal Richard Nixon's treasonous act

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    LOL... this is such a misconception of the legal system I don't even know what else to say.
    Don't even try. I am a lawyer and you are not.

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