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  1. #51
    FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE! TX-Beau's Avatar
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    Re: S.D. governor signs teacher 'sentinel' bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    I've had psych classes. And in one we studied possession of weapons, and it turns out that people properly tarined with weapons will be more reluctant to use them, because they understand what using them means.

    Which leads me to state once again that Congress needs to use its Article I Sec 8 authority for establishing discipline for the militia, in the form of setting standards of training.
    CITE!!!!!

    If you studied it, you of course can point us to the source.
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  2. #52
    Bammer's Papa
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    Re: S.D. governor signs teacher 'sentinel' bill

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    He didn't say disarm, YOU DID. You seem to think that a criminal who assumes you have a gun is going to step out into the open and not shoot you in the back.

    Like I said, irrational. If the criminal assumes you are armed, THEY are not going to announce themselves, they are going to shoot you in the back. fat lot of good your gun does in your fantasy scneario.
    Try studying the subject. Better than nine of ten violent felons in prison agree that if they believe their intended victim is likely to be armed, they will go somewhere else. That's why they avoid houses or businesses with stickers announcing that the owner/resident is a US Marine, an NRA member, a police officer, etc. And it doesn't take much reading to find that criminals in practice avoid attacking anyone at all when even a small fraction of them are armed -- they wait until no one is around.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  3. #53
    FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE! TX-Beau's Avatar
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    Re: S.D. governor signs teacher 'sentinel' bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Do you ever think past your first emotional response?

    NO ONE with the least trace of rationality is going to shoot ANYONE when they know that everyone else around them is armed -- there's no profit in it. They want to get away with loot, not get shot by three or four bystanders.



    When you resort to making up lies about me, you've already failed utterly.
    LOL, you're flailing. Not that I'm surprised.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Try studying the subject. Better than nine of ten violent felons in prison agree that if they believe their intended victim is likely to be armed, they will go somewhere else. That's why they avoid houses or businesses with stickers announcing that the owner/resident is a US Marine, an NRA member, a police officer, etc. And it doesn't take much reading to find that criminals in practice avoid attacking anyone at all when even a small fraction of them are armed -- they wait until no one is around.
    EDUMACATE US. Point us to all that data you studied.
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

  4. #54
    FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE! TX-Beau's Avatar
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    Re: S.D. governor signs teacher 'sentinel' bill

    Which is useless data anyway in YOUR world where EVERYONE is armed!
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

  5. #55
    Bammer's Papa
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    Re: S.D. governor signs teacher 'sentinel' bill

    Quote Originally Posted by justanothershyguy View Post
    It is relevant and whether or not a teacher is armed is not going to save the day when that time comes. You know what will? A teacher who follows procedure and keeps his or her students in the locked classroom until the all clear is given.

    All I ask is for you to answer the question. Is it a necessary precaution?
    I don't answer invalid questions. To put it another way, the question is wrong because it puts a false limitation on reality. To ask if it's "necessary" is the sort of thing that will lead to doing nothing, because there is no one thing that is "necessary" to prevent any bad outcome.

    And locked classrooms are useless -- the locks on the school in New Jersey didn't keep anyone safe; the shooter used a window. If a shooter knows no one can hurt him, he'll shoot through the door. But over and over, the thing that stops shooters is the knowledge that someone is on the scene with a firearm -- that's the point at which they turn and kill themselves rather than continue, whether it's the police arriving or a citizen arriving with a concealed weapon.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  6. #56
    FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE! TX-Beau's Avatar
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    Re: S.D. governor signs teacher 'sentinel' bill

    Translation, you don't answer questions you don't want to. Fine, but let's not be precious about it.
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

  7. #57
    Bammer's Papa
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    Re: S.D. governor signs teacher 'sentinel' bill

    Quote Originally Posted by justanothershyguy View Post
    Okay, so which school shooter ever has been 'rational'?
    That wasn't the target group he was maintaining would have the sense to "shoot you in the back".

    OTOH, school shooters have been rational enough to know that when someone shows up who can shoot back, the game is over -- and they tend to shoot themselves at that point.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  8. #58
    Shy-ster justanothershyguy's Avatar
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    Re: S.D. governor signs teacher 'sentinel' bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    I don't answer invalid questions. To put it another way, the question is wrong because it puts a false limitation on reality. To ask if it's "necessary" is the sort of thing that will lead to doing nothing, because there is no one thing that is "necessary" to prevent any bad outcome.
    So then by this logic, arming everyone in the school and training them would be okay since it would prevent any shooting from ever happening.

    Of course that won't happen. Would it work? Probably. Does it make it safer? Dunno. Would I feel safer? Hell no. Tha

    And locked classrooms are useless -- the locks on the school in New Jersey didn't keep anyone safe; the shooter used a window. If a shooter knows no one can hurt him, he'll shoot through the door. But over and over, the thing that stops shooters is the knowledge that someone is on the scene with a firearm -- that's the point at which they turn and kill themselves rather than continue, whether it's the police arriving or a citizen arriving with a concealed weapon.
    Don't jump to a conclusion. The locks on that school were quite effective, he needed to use a window to get in. Had that window been locked (if possible), he would have never gotten in. But we don't play games of 'what if'... He did get in, and new precautions must be made. Arming a teacher is NOT one of them. Bring in more professionals. There's a school in Minnesota that opened up a police hub inside the school. Is anybody going to fuck with that? No.

    You keep saying it's an invalid question. That's not true, it's a valid question simply because there are other things that can be done to amp up security without putting guns in a teachers hands. Teachers are not police officers. They are not Security officers. That is not their job.
    Author of Lost in a Dream. If you want to make me smile, read it and tell me what you think.

  9. #59
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: S.D. governor signs teacher 'sentinel' bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    I've had psych classes. And in one we studied possession of weapons, and it turns out that people properly tarined with weapons will be more reluctant to use them, because they understand what using them means.

    Which leads me to state once again that Congress needs to use its Article I Sec 8 authority for establishing discipline for the militia, in the form of setting standards of training.
    What should be is by definition not what is. MOST people are not "properly trained", despite your delusional claim to the opposite. Most people want to use their guns, because to most people owning a gun makes them bigger, badder and more awesome, as TX-Beau repeatedly pointed out.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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  10. #60

    Re: S.D. governor signs teacher 'sentinel' bill

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    Tiresome..
    Only government can take perfectly good paper, cover it with perfectly good ink and make the combination worthless.

  11. #61
    JUB Addict T-Rexx's Avatar
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    Re: S.D. governor signs teacher 'sentinel' bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Better than nine of ten violent felons in prison agree that if they believe their intended victim is likely to be armed, they will go somewhere else. That's why they avoid houses or businesses with stickers announcing that the owner/resident is a US Marine, an NRA member, a police officer, etc.
    So, all I have to do is put a sticker on my house, announcing I am an NRA member, and I'll be safe.

    Much cheaper than buying a gun.

  12. #62
    JUB Addict T-Rexx's Avatar
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    Re: S.D. governor signs teacher 'sentinel' bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    But over and over, the thing that stops shooters is the knowledge that someone is on the scene with a firearm -- that's the point at which they turn and kill themselves rather than continue, whether it's the police arriving or a citizen arriving with a concealed weapon.
    Somehow, that didn't stop Nidal Hassan from shooting up Fort Hood, which was chock full of military police, armed guards, and guns at the time.

  13. #63

    Re: S.D. governor signs teacher 'sentinel' bill

    So much for Gov. Jindal's admonition that the Republicans need to stop being the "stupid party."

  14. #64
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: S.D. governor signs teacher 'sentinel' bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    IIRC they were done by ABC, Gallup, Rasmussen, and one of the big papers.
    Interesting that you still make statements and provide not a single solitary link to what you claim.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
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  15. #65
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: S.D. governor signs teacher 'sentinel' bill

    Quote Originally Posted by palemale View Post
    So much for Gov. Jindal's admonition that the Republicans need to stop being the "stupid party."
    See the absolute best part about all of this? The more idiotic the party acts in different regions the least electable they are nationally. I hope they continue to open their mouths and the lackies continue to follow. It makes winning that much easier.

    Proponents of this point to Israel and the Presidents kids. Yet the protectors in those cases were armed law enforcement not teachers. Arming Miss Pettywinkle is the epitome of using other human beings to make a political statement.

    So you have one here arguing that the other side thinks guns are magical, another who thinks what is best is to insult teachers because they can't turn around the retarded kids we send them once parents stopped being parents and started being the kids buddies and I don't mean the special needs kids (that was an insensitive statement -- dont cry), the only argument left for a completely irrational debate is if Benvolio could pop in and claim arming the teaching was to let them eradicate illegal aliens from the teachers unions.

    I personally like what they did here in South KC... Kansas side. They simply increased police presence at all schools. It was temporary. That will not stop a active shooter. Simply makes people feel better. This law is a similar ignorant step. The vast majority of teachers are against this idea. Since it allows instead of demands arming of someone in the schools, there will not be an armed person all over the place and columbine can happen as easily as it did in Littleton. You all do remember there were off duty cops in Columbine, they did engage and were pushed back. This is just setting up a similar situation. It makes not a single soul any safer.

    But like I aid PLEASE keep speaking other side... it makes your candidates so much road kill nationally on election day.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  16. #66
    Shy-ster justanothershyguy's Avatar
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    Re: S.D. governor signs teacher 'sentinel' bill

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    I personally like what they did here in South KC... Kansas side. They simply increased police presence at all schools. It was temporary. That will not stop a active shooter. Simply makes people feel better. This law is a similar ignorant step. The vast majority of teachers are against this idea. Since it allows instead of demands arming of someone in the schools, there will not be an armed person all over the place and columbine can happen as easily as it did in Littleton. You all do remember there were off duty cops in Columbine, they did engage and were pushed back. This is just setting up a similar situation. It makes not a single soul any safer.
    See, this is exactly something that is a precaution worth taking. It keeps the guns in the hands of the professionals.
    Author of Lost in a Dream. If you want to make me smile, read it and tell me what you think.

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