S.D. governor signs teacher 'sentinel' bill

[TX-Beau]

I've had psych classes. And in one we studied possession of weapons, and it turns out that people properly tarined with weapons will be more reluctant to use them, because they understand what using them means.

Which leads me to state once again that Congress needs to use its Article I Sec 8 authority for establishing discipline for the militia, in the form of setting standards of training.

CITE!!!!!

If you studied it, you of course can point us to the source.

[Kulindahr]

He didn't say disarm, YOU DID. You seem to think that a criminal who assumes you have a gun is going to step out into the open and not shoot you in the back.

Like I said, irrational. If the criminal assumes you are armed, THEY are not going to announce themselves, they are going to shoot you in the back. fat lot of good your gun does in your fantasy scneario.

Try studying the subject. Better than nine of ten violent felons in prison agree that if they believe their intended victim is likely to be armed, they will go somewhere else. That's why they avoid houses or businesses with stickers announcing that the owner/resident is a US Marine, an NRA member, a police officer, etc. And it doesn't take much reading to find that criminals in practice avoid attacking anyone at all when even a small fraction of them are armed -- they wait until no one is around.

[TX-Beau]

Do you ever think past your first emotional response?

NO ONE with the least trace of rationality is going to shoot ANYONE when they know that everyone else around them is armed -- there's no profit in it. They want to get away with loot, not get shot by three or four bystanders.



When you resort to making up lies about me, you've already failed utterly.

LOL, you're flailing. Not that I'm surprised.

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Try studying the subject. Better than nine of ten violent felons in prison agree that if they believe their intended victim is likely to be armed, they will go somewhere else. That's why they avoid houses or businesses with stickers announcing that the owner/resident is a US Marine, an NRA member, a police officer, etc. And it doesn't take much reading to find that criminals in practice avoid attacking anyone at all when even a small fraction of them are armed -- they wait until no one is around.

EDUMACATE US. Point us to all that data you studied.

[TX-Beau]

Which is useless data anyway in YOUR world where EVERYONE is armed!

[Kulindahr]

It is relevant and whether or not a teacher is armed is not going to save the day when that time comes. You know what will? A teacher who follows procedure and keeps his or her students in the locked classroom until the all clear is given.

All I ask is for you to answer the question. Is it a necessary precaution?

I don't answer invalid questions. To put it another way, the question is wrong because it puts a false limitation on reality. To ask if it's "necessary" is the sort of thing that will lead to doing nothing, because there is no one thing that is "necessary" to prevent any bad outcome.

And locked classrooms are useless -- the locks on the school in New Jersey didn't keep anyone safe; the shooter used a window. If a shooter knows no one can hurt him, he'll shoot through the door. But over and over, the thing that stops shooters is the knowledge that someone is on the scene with a firearm -- that's the point at which they turn and kill themselves rather than continue, whether it's the police arriving or a citizen arriving with a concealed weapon.

[TX-Beau]

Translation, you don't answer questions you don't want to. Fine, but let's not be precious about it.

[Kulindahr]

Okay, so which school shooter ever has been 'rational'?

That wasn't the target group he was maintaining would have the sense to "shoot you in the back".

OTOH, school shooters have been rational enough to know that when someone shows up who can shoot back, the game is over -- and they tend to shoot themselves at that point.

[justanothershyguy]

I don't answer invalid questions. To put it another way, the question is wrong because it puts a false limitation on reality. To ask if it's "necessary" is the sort of thing that will lead to doing nothing, because there is no one thing that is "necessary" to prevent any bad outcome.

So then by this logic, arming everyone in the school and training them would be okay since it would prevent any shooting from ever happening.

Of course that won't happen. Would it work? Probably. Does it make it safer? Dunno. Would I feel safer? Hell no. Tha

And locked classrooms are useless -- the locks on the school in New Jersey didn't keep anyone safe; the shooter used a window. If a shooter knows no one can hurt him, he'll shoot through the door. But over and over, the thing that stops shooters is the knowledge that someone is on the scene with a firearm -- that's the point at which they turn and kill themselves rather than continue, whether it's the police arriving or a citizen arriving with a concealed weapon.

Don't jump to a conclusion. The locks on that school were quite effective, he needed to use a window to get in. Had that window been locked (if possible), he would have never gotten in. But we don't play games of 'what if'... He did get in, and new precautions must be made. Arming a teacher is NOT one of them. Bring in more professionals. There's a school in Minnesota that opened up a police hub inside the school. Is anybody going to fuck with that? No.

You keep saying it's an invalid question. That's not true, it's a valid question simply because there are other things that can be done to amp up security without putting guns in a teachers hands. Teachers are not police officers. They are not Security officers. That is not their job.

[Rolyo85]

I've had psych classes. And in one we studied possession of weapons, and it turns out that people properly tarined with weapons will be more reluctant to use them, because they understand what using them means.

Which leads me to state once again that Congress needs to use its Article I Sec 8 authority for establishing discipline for the militia, in the form of setting standards of training.

What should be is by definition not what is. MOST people are not "properly trained", despite your delusional claim to the opposite. Most people want to use their guns, because to most people owning a gun makes them bigger, badder and more awesome, as TX-Beau repeatedly pointed out.

[Durango95]

Tiresome..

[T-Rexx]

Better than nine of ten violent felons in prison agree that if they believe their intended victim is likely to be armed, they will go somewhere else. That's why they avoid houses or businesses with stickers announcing that the owner/resident is a US Marine, an NRA member, a police officer, etc.

So, all I have to do is put a sticker on my house, announcing I am an NRA member, and I'll be safe.

Much cheaper than buying a gun.

[T-Rexx]

But over and over, the thing that stops shooters is the knowledge that someone is on the scene with a firearm -- that's the point at which they turn and kill themselves rather than continue, whether it's the police arriving or a citizen arriving with a concealed weapon.

Somehow, that didn't stop Nidal Hassan from shooting up Fort Hood, which was chock full of military police, armed guards, and guns at the time.

[palemale]

So much for Gov. Jindal's admonition that the Republicans need to stop being the "stupid party."

[JayHawk]

IIRC they were done by ABC, Gallup, Rasmussen, and one of the big papers.

Interesting that you still make statements and provide not a single solitary link to what you claim.

[JayHawk]

So much for Gov. Jindal's admonition that the Republicans need to stop being the "stupid party."

See the absolute best part about all of this? The more idiotic the party acts in different regions the least electable they are nationally. I hope they continue to open their mouths and the lackies continue to follow. It makes winning that much easier.

Proponents of this point to Israel and the Presidents kids. Yet the protectors in those cases were armed law enforcement not teachers. Arming Miss Pettywinkle is the epitome of using other human beings to make a political statement.

So you have one here arguing that the other side thinks guns are magical, another who thinks what is best is to insult teachers because they can't turn around the retarded kids we send them once parents stopped being parents and started being the kids buddies and I don't mean the special needs kids (that was an insensitive statement -- dont cry), the only argument left for a completely irrational debate is if Benvolio could pop in and claim arming the teaching was to let them eradicate illegal aliens from the teachers unions.

I personally like what they did here in South KC... Kansas side. They simply increased police presence at all schools. It was temporary. That will not stop a active shooter. Simply makes people feel better. This law is a similar ignorant step. The vast majority of teachers are against this idea. Since it allows instead of demands arming of someone in the schools, there will not be an armed person all over the place and columbine can happen as easily as it did in Littleton. You all do remember there were off duty cops in Columbine, they did engage and were pushed back. This is just setting up a similar situation. It makes not a single soul any safer.

But like I aid PLEASE keep speaking other side... it makes your candidates so much road kill nationally on election day.

[justanothershyguy]

I personally like what they did here in South KC... Kansas side. They simply increased police presence at all schools. It was temporary. That will not stop a active shooter. Simply makes people feel better. This law is a similar ignorant step. The vast majority of teachers are against this idea. Since it allows instead of demands arming of someone in the schools, there will not be an armed person all over the place and columbine can happen as easily as it did in Littleton. You all do remember there were off duty cops in Columbine, they did engage and were pushed back. This is just setting up a similar situation. It makes not a single soul any safer.

See, this is exactly something that is a precaution worth taking. It keeps the guns in the hands of the professionals.