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  1. #51
    FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE! TX-Beau's Avatar
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    Re: North Korea Ends Peace Pacts With South Korea

    The greedy rich south? How 'bout the greedy rich Kim? I'd argue with Ben some more, but I can't stop laughing at that idea.
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  2. #52
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    Re: North Korea Ends Peace Pacts With South Korea

    Quote Originally Posted by JockBoy87 View Post
    It's an ironic situation. Economic codependents are at each others necks for influence. The Miracle of the Han changed everything on the peninsula. The stagnant situation is at least peaceful, with the occasional plume of hot air.



    How could he be greedy? Corrupt capitalism makes way more than communism.
    Yeah, How could he be greedy? He only has all the money in the country and lives in luxury while most everyone else eats tree bark.
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  3. #53

    Re: North Korea Ends Peace Pacts With South Korea

    I have no doubt the Kim regime subscribes to the ideology that the capitalist South has become prosperous because they are evil and greedy and stole it from the more virtuous, wise and compassionate North, with the aid of the evil greedy US. It is for the wiser, more intelligent and virtuous Kim regime to right the wrong by taxing the rich greedy Southerners and redistributing to achieve equality. Oh, and they think the Southerners are all racists.
    Last edited by Benvolio; March 10th, 2013 at 02:39 PM. Reason: E se

  4. #54

    Re: North Korea Ends Peace Pacts With South Korea

    The thought processes of the Kim regime, which we can only estimate, are relevant to his thread.

  5. #55
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: North Korea Ends Peace Pacts With South Korea

    I think all of South Korea's allies should withdraw from South Korea, and send a joint message to China:
    North Korea is your ally and your problem.
    Solve this such that South Korea is secure within its borders.

  6. #56
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    Re: North Korea Ends Peace Pacts With South Korea

    Quote Originally Posted by JockBoy87 View Post
    That's just it. It's not a lot of money, compared to what it could be.
    It's more than enough money to keep the Kim family very very rich, and the fact remains, that if they allowed what is necessary for "what it could be" they'd have to share.
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  7. #57
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    Re: North Korea Ends Peace Pacts With South Korea

    Quote Originally Posted by Stardreamer View Post
    Well the did FINALLY get a satellite into orbit, after lying about the first one. Once you reach that threshold you have most of the technical issues with making a working ICBM licked.
    "What goes up must come down"... unless it's a satellite. If it's not a satellite, the next question is "Where?"

    Just because they can get a satellite into orbit doesn't mean they can make it fall where they want.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

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  8. #58
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    Re: North Korea Ends Peace Pacts With South Korea

    Quote Originally Posted by Stardreamer View Post
    South Korea's military surpassed the North Korean's sometime ago, the south will most likely win any conflict now but Seoul would be destroyed in the initial missile exchanges so they would rather avoid it.
    If the South set their effort to it, they could make Seoul mostly safe from even the North's massive missile collection in a half dozen years (and enrich some US arms makers doing so). That would make an interesting of the North's sanity.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  9. #59
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    Re: North Korea Ends Peace Pacts With South Korea

    .
    I wonder if Kim Jong-un watches Fox? - which would explain his delusional beliefs that the U.S. is weak and that the President is incompetent and anti-military.

  10. #60
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    Re: North Korea Ends Peace Pacts With South Korea

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrobin View Post
    .
    I wonder if Kim Jong-un watches Fox? - which would explain his delusional beliefs that the U.S. is weak and that the President is incompetent and anti-military.
    Probable especially after the Denis Rodman incident.

  11. #61
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    Re: North Korea Ends Peace Pacts With South Korea

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    I think all of South Korea's allies should withdraw from South Korea, and send a joint message to China:
    North Korea is your ally and your problem.
    Solve this such that South Korea is secure within its borders.
    You don't think that if all allies withdrew from South Korea, then China would love to see a unified Korea -- under North Korean leadership of course. I think a good reason there is such backing of North Korea and no hope for unification is because China fears Korean manufacturing prowess and will not tolerate a strong western ally on their border in a unified fashion. Imagine if Korea was unified, then all of both North and south investment in military was focused outward instead of inward.

    No China doesnt want that solution anymore than they want Taiwan to exist as their own entity.
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    Re: North Korea Ends Peace Pacts With South Korea

    The North Korean government is posturing for their own people in furtherance of keeping the US and the west the massive bogey man that justifies their repressive regime. It's a shell game. Bush did the same thing with Hussein lest any of you out there get delusions of immunity to that kind of thing.
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  13. #63
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    Re: North Korea Ends Peace Pacts With South Korea

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyBob View Post
    Baby Kim is rattling his saber.

    They're pissed off that the new tougher sanctions include no sales of yachts and luxury cars to the NK elite. Whenever there are new sanctions NK whines for attention and talks tough.

    They're well aware if they carry out these threats South Korea, China and the USA would turn their little country into a parking lot for one of Seoul's shopping centers.
    Great post!

  14. #64
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    Re: North Korea Ends Peace Pacts With South Korea

    Oh, yeah, there's this. What time of day do we get nuked?
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  15. #65
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    Re: North Korea Ends Peace Pacts With South Korea

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    You don't think that if all allies withdrew from South Korea, then China would love to see a unified Korea -- under North Korean leadership of course. I think a good reason there is such backing of North Korea and no hope for unification is because China fears Korean manufacturing prowess and will not tolerate a strong western ally on their border in a unified fashion. Imagine if Korea was unified, then all of both North and south investment in military was focused outward instead of inward.

    No China doesnt want that solution anymore than they want Taiwan to exist as their own entity.
    My point is to stop engaging North Korea. It is a non-entity. China is the problem. It whines about refugees. It whines about the presence of western allies in South Korea and uses this as a pretext for maintaining North Korea as a buffer.

    The first whine is baseless; when the government of NK dissolves the refugees will become SK's problem, not China's. And the second pretext, security, is easily destroyed by withdrawing from the south.

    Beijing would shit themselves if they didn't have an excuse for inaction. The best course is to remove the pretext. China claims to be a regional power with the rights and obligations to ensure stability in its sphere. So let's stop playing games with a pissant ineffectual tyrant and up the ante to dealing directly with China: We're out, ensuring stability for South Korea is your problem. Do what you think is wise.

    Then move all the troops to somewhere else that makes china rather more uncomfortable and wait. I'm betting the Kims would be gone within a month.

    It is a significant escalation to hold China accountable like that, but the only way to get anything done i think.

  16. #66
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    Re: North Korea Ends Peace Pacts With South Korea

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    The South Koreans surpassed North Korea in military quality in the mid 1980s to be exact. And the South Korean airforce has a significant bombing capability. At any rate as however callous as they seem, I don't think North Korea is suicidal.
    People can be suicidal without realizing it, if they're too far out of tune with reality -- just look at what passes for economic policy in the GOP.

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    Fine, but I'm not going to engage in irrational fear mongering either. And North Korea's military itself is not well equipped and has a serious lack of parts, despite its close ties to China.
    I read last year an estimate that while North Korea has a large army, and is short on equipment, what it really lacks is enough food, and the logistics to get food to the troops, for more than a couple of weeks maximum. And just as in the times of Caesar and Napoleon, an army marches on its stomach.

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    The thought processes? I didn't realize we had people here who could read minds.

    http://www.dnaindia.com/world/report...friend_1809471

    China is already shifting its stance. This article is from a differing perspective. Not American media.

    One part of the article really interests me:



    Chinese media is pissed off and most of its media is government controlled... so what is said is pretty much the official position. They've called North Korea ungrateful.
    More important than "ungrateful" is "unreliable". To a Maoist mind, that's just the click of a safety away from "liability".

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

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  17. #67
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: North Korea Ends Peace Pacts With South Korea

    "We anticipate that any attempt by North Korea to violate the territorial integrity of South Korea will be met by a definitive response by China. We are grateful for the leadership China has shown in the region, and we fully expect China will continue to ensure stability on the Korean Peninsula such that South Korea's integrity, borders, and way of life are assured. For those reasons, and because of our confidence in China, we are happy to announce a complete withdrawal from South Korea of all our bases and military personnel, secure in the knowledge that North Korea cannot represent a threat so long as China continues to exercise its regional leadership effectively."

    This would of course up the stake considerably and put China's neck on the line if they fuck up or if North Korea fucked up on their behalf.

    I don't think the Chinese would shit themselves. I think they'd actually march into Pyongyang within a week.

  18. #68
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: North Korea Ends Peace Pacts With South Korea

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    My point is to stop engaging North Korea. It is a non-entity. China is the problem. It whines about refugees. It whines about the presence of western allies in South Korea and uses this as a pretext for maintaining North Korea as a buffer.

    The first whine is baseless; when the government of NK dissolves the refugees will become SK's problem, not China's. And the second pretext, security, is easily destroyed by withdrawing from the south.

    Beijing would shit themselves if they didn't have an excuse for inaction. The best course is to remove the pretext. China claims to be a regional power with the rights and obligations to ensure stability in its sphere. So let's stop playing games with a pissant ineffectual tyrant and up the ante to dealing directly with China: We're out, ensuring stability for South Korea is your problem. Do what you think is wise.

    Then move all the troops to somewhere else that makes china rather more uncomfortable and wait. I'm betting the Kims would be gone within a month.

    It is a significant escalation to hold China accountable like that, but the only way to get anything done i think.
    I do like the though but where else would make the Chinese uncomfortable? Thailand happily involves itself in exercises every year but doesnt want troops on their land indefinitely nor would they like to piss on China's leg, we have been helping the Philippines but honestly the way to help them the most is to have less and less US military there AND they dont wanna piss off China either, Taiwan -- we would be at war in those thirty days you speak of because China considers Taiwan their prefect that is disillusioned, Japan already has our forces times two and are much more agressive at telling the CHinese to fuck off when they become bullies in the region....

    So i do like the idea but I doubt it would cause a capitulation by Kim or China because they would then fell no pressure. In fact, I bet they would be in South Korea the next day -- diplomatically -- saying "I'll make you a deal you can not refuse" (with an Italian mafia emphasis but still the Chinese accent...it would be funny, trust me)
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  19. #69
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    Re: North Korea Ends Peace Pacts With South Korea

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    I do like the though but where else would make the Chinese uncomfortable? Thailand happily involves itself in exercises every year but doesnt want troops on their land indefinitely nor would they like to piss on China's leg, we have been helping the Philippines but honestly the way to help them the most is to have less and less US military there AND they dont wanna piss off China either, Taiwan -- we would be at war in those thirty days you speak of because China considers Taiwan their prefect that is disillusioned, Japan already has our forces times two and are much more agressive at telling the CHinese to fuck off when they become bullies in the region....

    So i do like the idea but I doubt it would cause a capitulation by Kim or China because they would then fell no pressure. In fact, I bet they would be in South Korea the next day -- diplomatically -- saying "I'll make you a deal you can not refuse" (with an Italian mafia emphasis but still the Chinese accent...it would be funny, trust me)
    It depends on the conditions of the withdrawal; conditions that China need not agree to for them to be effective.

    It would also depend on their intrinsic motivations.
    • I just don't see China ever marching into SK. Can't even imagine it; it would doom them internationally.
    • This is not 1948 and South Korea is not Czechoslovakia - and of course China is a capitalist country with a stern monarchy that elects its king the same way the cardinals elect the pope; it is not stalinist Russia with an ideology to push.
    • They would sooner go into Taiwan, and they're not willing to do that. Going into SK would provoke a unilateral declaration of Taiwanese independence.


    So where would the troops go. I agree they should not be in the philippines or in thailand. No reason; no pay-off.
    a) they could stay home to save some money.
    b) kill 3 birds with one stone. Pakistan is kind of annoying right now. It's annoying to anyone whose country sent soldiers to Afghanistan. It always annoys India. Maybe some cooperation along the border of India/Pakistan between India and western troops would be just the thing. Except it should also be uncomfortably close to China's Tibetan border with India. So, poke Pakistan, please India, annoy China, and ultimately expose North Korea.

    My thesis is that strangely, the western presence in South Korea actually provides cover for North Korean shenanigans.

  20. #70
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    Re: North Korea Ends Peace Pacts With South Korea

    You both mistake what i said completely. They need not march anywhere.
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  21. #71
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    Re: North Korea Ends Peace Pacts With South Korea

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    It depends on the conditions of the withdrawal; conditions that China need not agree to for them to be effective.

    It would also depend on their intrinsic motivations.
    • I just don't see China ever marching into SK. Can't even imagine it; it would doom them internationally.
    • This is not 1948 and South Korea is not Czechoslovakia - and of course China is a capitalist country with a stern monarchy that elects its king the same way the cardinals elect the pope; it is not stalinist Russia with an ideology to push.
    • They would sooner go into Taiwan, and they're not willing to do that. Going into SK would provoke a unilateral declaration of Taiwanese independence.


    So where would the troops go. I agree they should not be in the philippines or in thailand. No reason; no pay-off.
    a) they could stay home to save some money.
    b) kill 3 birds with one stone. Pakistan is kind of annoying right now. It's annoying to anyone whose country sent soldiers to Afghanistan. It always annoys India. Maybe some cooperation along the border of India/Pakistan between India and western troops would be just the thing. Except it should also be uncomfortably close to China's Tibetan border with India. So, poke Pakistan, please India, annoy China, and ultimately expose North Korea.

    My thesis is that strangely, the western presence in South Korea actually provides cover for North Korean shenanigans.
    Pakistan has nothing to do with China and they would not give two flying fucks if we made it into a glass parking lot. Their aperture isn't that big yet. If we left the western pacific the Chinese would impose their will over trade, water access, and resources and they would do it with impunity. They are trying to do it with impunity every single day of the year now but they keep meeting us or CARAT allies and being turned back.

    I agree we embolden their ability to act like a delinquent child as a state. So when is the last time just ignoring delinquent children resulted in a excellent outcome? To China NK is a hammer or a saw. They use them like a tool. They would do the same to the Japanese, Filipinos, Thai, Laotiens and Vietnamese -- using NK as a tool to ignite regional calamity and then quell the violence and thereby instilling themselves as the regional super power.

    The only reason we aren't in another super power clutch for power with proxy wars across the globe is because as a nation the US refuses to give an inch anywhere the Chinese desire to establish themselves. I don't expect that chess game to change. We don't want cold war part deux. China is insidious and is trying to outmaneuver us in other areas -- like gathering up precious resource contracts around the globe. Fortunately if you can afford lawyers you can afford to forcibly break contracts. Oh and we have lawyers.

    Anyways I am way off topic. China would not solve NK because we left. They would use them. To establish the first ring of possessions and protectorates and then to establish the second. They already claim internationally that they own things that they never have...





    They wouldn't march anywhere near Korea... south or north. They would block shipping, harass supplies, stop and inspect shipping, conduct trade warfare and otherwise make life hell for those smaller players around them.
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  22. #72
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    Re: North Korea Ends Peace Pacts With South Korea

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    Anyways I am way off topic. China would not solve NK because we left. They would use them. To establish the first ring of possessions and protectorates and then to establish the second. They already claim internationally that they own things that they never have...

    They wouldn't march anywhere near Korea... south or north. They would block shipping, harass supplies, stop and inspect shipping, conduct trade warfare and otherwise make life hell for those smaller players around them.
    Well, that strategy is one leg of three of how China was basically built -- that and invaders being absorbed, along with forcible migration of masses Chinese into neighboring territories that were then just absorbed.

    If China really acted to subdue North Korea, the last is what I'd expect.

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  23. #73
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    Re: North Korea Ends Peace Pacts With South Korea

    I just heard on MSNBC that N Korea has threatened to attack US bases in Guam and Japan. He's gonna keep it up.
    Will look for a link.
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    Re: North Korea Ends Peace Pacts With South Korea

    Oh, I forgot to look for a link. While I was looking it up I found Daniel and forgot all about it.
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    Re: North Korea Ends Peace Pacts With South Korea

    Oh, I forgot to look for a link. While I was looking it up I found Daniel and forgot all about it.
    Here's 1. It told me I couldn't edit for 10 minutes then let me!

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/22/wo...ific.html?_r=0

    North Korea Threatens U.S. Military Bases in the Pacific
    By CHOE SANG-HUN
    Published: March 21, 2013

    SEOUL — North Korea on Thursday threatened to attack American military bases in Japan and on the Pacific island of Guam in retaliation for training missions by American B-52 bombers over the Korean Peninsula, while state radio blared air-raid warnings to the North Korean people.
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    Re: North Korea Ends Peace Pacts With South Korea

    Controlled insanity . . .


    So long as it stays controlled, no worries.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

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  27. #77
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    Re: North Korea Ends Peace Pacts With South Korea

    Ya got proof of that?
    HAHA, I'm asking you for a link.
    Forget it I'm kidding. Thanks.
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  28. #78
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    Re: North Korea Ends Peace Pacts With South Korea

    Question:
    Do the North Korean general population know anything about the outside world?
    If not, that makes them really really weak and can't do anything to its neighbors is it not?


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    Re: North Korea Ends Peace Pacts With South Korea

    funny at 5.23 all the kids learn English ?
    mmmm opportunity for America to be in charge of the country



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    Re: North Korea Ends Peace Pacts With South Korea

    Quote Originally Posted by Telstra View Post
    Question:
    Do the North Korean general population know anything about the outside world?
    If not, that makes them really really weak and can't do anything to its neighbors is it not?

    I read somewhere, not sure it is in my link, but they are running the air raid alarms and making the population think that it is our fault. I think that makes them ignorant of the sigtuation.
    Last edited by White Eagle; March 21st, 2013 at 05:09 PM.
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  31. #81
    JubberClubber White Eagle's Avatar
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    Re: North Korea Ends Peace Pacts With South Korea

    Quote Originally Posted by Telstra View Post
    funny at 5.23 all the kids learn English ?
    mmmm opportunity for America to be in charge of the country

    Let's see, You are from Australia and you want America to be in charge. Just because the GOP wants to be in charge don't mean we do. Thanks anyway.
    BEWARE! Harassing the Indian may result in sudden and severe hair loss.

  32. #82
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    Re: North Korea Ends Peace Pacts With South Korea

    Telstra, ya know I love ya, Peach.
    BEWARE! Harassing the Indian may result in sudden and severe hair loss.

  33. #83
    Are u haleloo ya ? Telstra's Avatar
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    Re: North Korea Ends Peace Pacts With South Korea

    Quote Originally Posted by White Eagle View Post
    Let's see, You are from Australia and you want America to be in charge. Just because the GOP wants to be in charge don't mean we do. Thanks anyway.
    I'm joking.
    Because i saw all the kids learn English, there is opportunity to win the population over without war.


    NEVER LISTEN TO A ONE SIDED STORY AND JUDGE.

  34. #84
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    Re: North Korea Ends Peace Pacts With South Korea

    I know, I got a silly bone going on. I do NOT want to piss off an Aussie!
    BEWARE! Harassing the Indian may result in sudden and severe hair loss.

  35. #85
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    Re: North Korea Ends Peace Pacts With South Korea

    Quote Originally Posted by Telstra View Post
    I'm joking.
    Because i saw all the kids learn English, there is opportunity to win the population over without war.
    I didn't mean peach, unless you like them. We'll work on it!
    BEWARE! Harassing the Indian may result in sudden and severe hair loss.

  36. #86
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    Re: North Korea Ends Peace Pacts With South Korea

    Ok, I found this at Roadrunner this AM. Is China REALLY gonna make NK str8en up? If China stops aid, I'm pretty sure they won't, they will just go to Iran.
    I wish China would follow through with something.
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  37. #87
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    Re: North Korea Ends Peace Pacts With South Korea

    My Win explorer is fucking up today and didn't let me post that above. So here is what should have gone in the above.
    http://www.rr.com/news/topic/article..._asks_for_more

    China punishes North Korea as US asks for more

    Published - Mar 23 2013 04:12AM CST

    CHARLES HUTZLER, Associated Press

    BEIJING (AP) — China is trying to punish ally North Korea for its nuclear and missile tests, stepping up inspections of North Korean-bound cargo in a calibrated effort to send a message of Chinese pique without further provoking a testy Pyongyang government.
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