RIP Hugo Chavez

[JockBoy87]

The system i see being adovcated does manipulate numbers.

If non-partisan NGOs were believed to be misrepresenting numbers, then why bother doing research at all? Actually the paper I quoted argued the opposite side to my point, but in that specific instance provided very compelling numbers.

And a mixed system is controlled by regulation and government.

As it should be. Only government can be counted on to promote fair distribution to combat hunger and malnutrition.

[Benvolio]

Let's see. Giancarlo's hero is Chavez and Chavez's hero is Fidel Castro. Chavez was a communist, pure and simple. It didn't work for Chavez or Castro or Kim Ill whatshisname, or Stalin, or Mao, or Ceausescu or anyone else and it would not work for Giancarlo. It is a myth that there are people starving in America. If there are malnourished, it is because mama is spending the welfare checks on booze. Even the millions of illegals get food stamps. I would be the first to admit we have too many poor people and do not need more.

[White Eagle]

We are still importing Venezuelan oil as Citgo and they changed their name to Valero on their gas stations. I'm surprised at all the sincere posts on his dying, something I wasn't ready for. I didn't have any problems with him, I guess just like y'all.
I also can't believe GiancarloC and JockBoy87 went on with their convo until almost 5AM. From what I read about what you were saying, GC and JB87, y'all were close to saying the same thing.
RIP Chavez.

[White Eagle]

Let's see. Giancarlo's hero is Chavez and Chavez's hero is Fidel Castro. Chavez was a communist, pure and simple. It didn't work for Chavez or Castro or Kim Ill whatshisname, or Stalin, or Mao, or Ceausescu or anyone else and it would not work for Giancarlo. It is a myth that there are people starving in America. If there are malnourished, it is because mama is spending the welfare checks on booze. Even the millions of illegals get food stamps. I would be the first to admit we have too many poor people and do not need more.

Here we go again. You CANNOT buy booze with food stamps. I'll need to see a link about the millions of illegals that get food stamps.

[JockBoy87]

I also can't believe GiancarloC and JockBoy87 went on with their convo until almost 5AM. From what I read about what you were saying, GC and JB87, y'all were close to saying the same thing.

I had a course project due today, and I couldn't sleep so I decided to finish it this morning, and we ended up having a lively and somewhat constructive debate.

[GiancarloC]

Let's see. Giancarlo's hero is Chavez and Chavez's hero is Fidel Castro. Chavez was a communist, pure and simple. It didn't work for Chavez or Castro or Kim Ill whatshisname, or Stalin, or Mao, or Ceausescu or anyone else and it would not work for Giancarlo. It is a myth that there are people starving in America. If there are malnourished, it is because mama is spending the welfare checks on booze. Even the millions of illegals get food stamps. I would be the first to admit we have too many poor people and do not need more.

Chavez was elected democratically, unlike Bush who was appointed to office. And don't make rambunctious claims about what I think that can't be backed up. It's not a myth people are starving in America. It's established fact. Millions of house holds don't have access to enough food. People don't get enough calories.

Guess what doesn't work? The extreme form of capitalism espoused in your posts. It failed catastrophically in 2008. Oh and one of my heroes is Lula Da Silva. Not Kim Jong Il, Stalin or Mao.

- - - Updated - - -

If non-partisan NGOs were believed to be misrepresenting numbers, then why bother doing research at all? Actually the paper I quoted argued the opposite side to my point, but in that specific instance provided very compelling numbers.

Who funds the UN? Who funds these NGOs? My point has been proven. Not to be trusted.

[GiancarloC]

Here we go again. You CANNOT buy booze with food stamps. I'll need to see a link about the millions of illegals that get food stamps.

It's just another lie in a long list of lies and deceptions. Food stamps can't buy booze and illegals don't get food stamps. Most welfare goes to republican states... the irony, oh the irony!

[JustMe5]

It's just another lie in a long list of lies and deceptions. Food stamps can't buy booze and illegals don't get food stamps. Most welfare goes to republican states... the irony, oh the irony!

Most welfare recipients are black despite being only 13% of the US population. How's that for irony?
http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/

[Benvolio]

It's just another lie in a long list of lies and deceptions. Food stamps can't buy booze and illegals don't get food stamps. Most welfare goes to republican states... the irony, oh the irony!

I said moms must be using WELFARE for booze, not food stamps.
But we have identified a big share if the people-- if any-- who are underfed. And it would be very wrong for the government to tax Americans to feed immigrants, legal or not. If we want to feed them, we should do it in their country, not ours. Feeding them here just encourages more to come.

[GiancarloC]

Most welfare recipients are black despite being only 13% of the US population. How's that for irony?
http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/

Deflection! Most welfare goes to republican states for poor whites.



- - - Updated - - -

I said moms must be using WELFARE for booze, not food stamps.
But we have identified a big share if the people-- if any-- who are underfed. And it would be very wrong for the government to tax Americans to feed immigrants, legal or not. If we want to feed them, we should do it in their country, not ours. Feeding them here just encourages more to come.

Must be, could be, would be... and not one shred of proof. What a surprise? I haven't seen any truth. WElfare isn't being used for undocumented immigrants. Most undocumented immigrants work many hours a week and pay for their own way. Get a grip.

By the fucking way, many immigrants PAY TAXES TOO.

[JustMe5]

Deflection! Most welfare goes to republican states for poor whites.

Now THAT'S a deflection. Where's your shred of proof that it's "poor whites" who are collecting "most welfare" in what you term Republican states. Your chart only shows STATES.

[GiancarloC]

Now THAT'S a deflection. Where's your shred of proof that it's "poor whites" who are collecting "most welfare" in what you term Republican states. Your chart only shows STATES.

No it's not. I'm stating fact. Why does most federal aid go to republican states? No. I state reality and facts. Not the right wing distortions and deflections. Keep it up with the falsehoods!

[Benvolio]

There is no proof that the welfare goes to poor whites. The assertion was just invented.

[GiancarloC]

There is no proof that the welfare goes to poor whites. The assertion was just invented.

No it's not. It's truthful. And where is the proof for all the assertions and faulty claims in your posts?

[JustMe5]

No it's not. I'm stating fact. Why does most federal aid go to republican states? No. I state reality and facts. Not the right wing distortions and deflections. Keep it up with the falsehoods!

No, you posted biased hogwash, as per usual. I posted a link showing reality and facts. Why can't you do the same?

[opinterph]

I posted a link showing reality and facts.

[URL="http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/"]http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/[/URL]

Reality and facts are always helpful.

Your Statistic Brain link indicates that the sources of its data are the US Department of Health and Human Services, US Department of Commerce, and CATO Institute. It also indicates that “aid” may include: general Welfare payments, health care through Medicaid, food stamps, special payments for pregnant women and young mothers, and federal and state housing benefits.

Do you know what year the data represents?

Do you know what aid characteristics (e.g. food stamps, unemployment insurance [both mentioned under the section titled “Welfare Statistics”]) are included in the section titled “Welfare Demographics?”

[Durango95]

Good riddance to bad rubbish......

[Jack Springer]

The smell of sulfur still fills the air from when the gates of hell opened and welcomed another of it's own to eternal torment.

Good riddance.

[Benvolio]

No it's not. I'm stating fact. Why does most federal aid go to republican states? No. I state reality and facts. Not the right wing distortions and deflections. Keep it up with the falsehoods!

The chart does not say that red states get more aid. That is a lie. It says the states on the right get more aid than they pay in Federal taxes.
The states on the right have substantial minority populations, and they are farm states. Historically even rich farmers have low taxable incomes.

[chrisrobin]

There is no proof that the welfare goes to poor whites. The assertion was just invented.

There is no proof that you exist.

[nafhoosier]

RIP Hugo Chavez. If there's a God, Hugo Chavez is with him. And there would then have to be a deep, dark, hot corner in Hell waiting for Bush on Judgment Day.

Why don't you just join the Chavez cronies in their treating him as the second messiah?

Chavez was a piece of trash along the likes of Ahmadinejad in Iran (the two were great pals, didn't you know?)

The man was a dictator and wanted to become President for life by changing laws. He helped the poor by marginalizing and terrorizing specific populations of the country.

I won't be shedding a tear over his death, and wished he was behind bars during this whole ordeal.

Bye bye!

[eastofeden]

The smell of sulfur still fills the air from when the gates of hell opened and welcomed another of it's own to eternal torment.

Good riddance.

We're not talking about Reagan sweetie but since you seem to be...I agree.

[GiancarloC]

No, you posted biased hogwash, as per usual. I posted a link showing reality and facts. Why can't you do the same?

LOL No I didn't. I leave that to the right wingers and gay republicans... total hog wash and nonsense. What does that link show? Nothing of the sort. Pay attention. I've already posted facts in this thread.

[GiancarloC]

The chart does not say that red states get more aid. That is a lie. It says the states on the right get more aid than they pay in Federal taxes.
The states on the right have substantial minority populations, and they are farm states. Historically even rich farmers have low taxable incomes.

More falsehoods. Republican states are the poorest in the nation and they do receive far more federal aid. Cut the nonsense. Incomes in republican states are far lower and poverty rates are far higher.

And Chrisrobin is right.

[bendted]

I am liking the posts from the homosexual Republicans who crow about being Christians at every opportunity they see fit, but now are celebrating a man's death, which is a nasty, not Christian, thing to do.

[Benvolio]

Remember, he was best at looting his country. His net worth from his short period in office is estimated at 1 to 2 BILLION dollars.http://www.celebritynetworth.com/ric...vez-net-worth/
His hero Castro is at a mere 900 Million.http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money...4-castro_x.htm
Maybe there is something to this socialism after all, if you get to be the head socialist.

[RazorzEdge88]

I am liking the posts from the homosexual Republicans who crow about being Christians at every opportunity they see fit, but now are celebrating a man's death, which is a nasty, not Christian, thing to do.

They're disciples of Pat Robertson.

[chrisrobin]

.
Although I do not favor dictatorships of any kind, the fact that Chavez and Dubya were adversaries speaks very highly of Mr. Chavez. RIP.

[JayHawk]

I do not like speaking ill of the dead... often... but in this case i will just say that I hope relations between us and Venezuela improve. They were fantastic back in my youth. I love Chile, Brazil, Peru, Argentina and haven't been to Bolivia or Paraguay much.... however I would never go to Venezuela in recent years because of the government... the people are probably still wonderful. If that turns a corner then All of South America can be explored again.

[Jack Springer]

I am liking the posts from the homosexual Republicans who crow about being Christians at every opportunity they see fit, but now are celebrating a man's death, which is a nasty, not Christian, thing to do.

Enjoy your future with Hitler, Mussolini, Mao, Stalin, Lenin, Pol Pot.

[bendted]

Enjoy your future with Hitler, Mussolini, Mao, Stalin, Lenin, Pol Pot.

Yes, I understand you Christians believe gays are bound for hell. I'll say hi to W. for you.

[Sausy]

The Socialist government unfortunately remains but at least the Crazy in Caracas show is now officially cancelled. However he benefitted some of his people he wrecked democracy in Venezuela and shut down almost all opposition. He supported tyrannical regimes and nasty people worldwide and was a megolamaniac who tried to create a cult of personality ...delusional and probably insane. If it weren't for oil, the bane of the environmentalist activists Chavez would never have lasted at all. He was full of himself in life... if there is an afterlife he would best be served blustering away on every topic with no audience to cheer him on for eternity.

[JockBoy87]

.
Although I do not favor dictatorships of any kind, the fact that Chavez and Dubya were adversaries speaks very highly of Mr. Chavez. RIP.

All coins have at least three sides.

[chrisrobin]

Enjoy your future with Hitler, Mussolini, Mao, Stalin, Lenin, Pol Pot.

*he fast forwards*
Let's not forget about Barry!

[EastMed]

RIP
He was an opponent of neoliberalism, and his legacy will be enduring.

[MisterMajestic]

As a Democrat I NEVER knew if I was suppose to LIKE Hugo or HATE the guy..The Media claimed he did a lot for the poor in his Country but I NEVER did my home-work on him back in the day.

It was reported this morning that Hugo's body will be embalmed & put on permanent display inside a Museum....I know I couldnt bare seeing my Parent like that 24/7..Every time I'd visit the Museum I'd fall to the Floor crying and they'd have to carry me out the back door...

The workers at the Museum would HATE to see me coming because they know I'm going to be a wreck and scare the paying visitors...

Yes, I understand you Christians believe gays are bound for hell. I'll say hi to W. for you.

Many of your fellow Jubers are Gay/Bi Christians. All Christians do not believe Gays are bound for hell..The Church is slowly changing just like Congress and The White House.

You won't get far stereotyping people & their Faith.

[CowboyBob]

The smell of sulfur still fills the air from when the gates of hell opened and welcomed another of it's own to eternal torment.

Good riddance.

Are you speaking from experience?

[xbuzzerx]

As a Democrat I NEVER knew if I was suppose to LIKE Hugo or HATE the guy..The Media claimed he did a lot for the poor in his Country but I NEVER did my home-work on him back in the day.

It was reported this morning that Hugo's body will be embalmed & put on permanent display inside a Museum....I know I couldnt bare seeing my Parent like that 24/7..Every time I'd visit the Museum I'd fall to the Floor crying and they'd have to carry me out the back door...

The workers at the Museum would HATE to see me coming because they know I'm going to be a wreck and scare the paying visitors...





Many of your fellow Jubers are Gay/Bi Christians. All Christians do not believe Gays are bound for hell..The Church is slowly changing just like Congress and The White House.

You won't get far stereotyping people & their Faith.

Just as a bit of trivia to throw into the "was he good or bad?" discussion, after Hurricane Katrina he did send a large amount of gas and fuel earmarked to help hospitals and emergency facilities power their generators after the disaster. I remember it being only very lightly talked about at all in our news, and of course... some of our news outlets were actively trying to make it out to be a villainous act.

[eastofeden]

Just as a bit of trivia to throw into the "was he good or bad?" discussion, after Hurricane Katrina he did send a large amount of gas and fuel earmarked to help hospitals and emergency facilities power their generators after the disaster. I remember it being only very lightly talked about at all in our news, and of course... some of our news outlets were actively trying to make it out to be a villainous act.

He also offered very cheap gas and heating fuel to poor Americans if the greedy middlemen removed themselves from the process.

[Jack Springer]

He also offered very cheap gas and heating fuel to poor Americans if the greedy middlemen removed themselves from the process.

Chavez was EVIL BIG OIL -- Citgo.

I'm sorry ... is that a double standard -- big oil is OK if owned by socialists?

[Kulindahr]

Chavez had just one thing going for him, yet was a hypocrite even on that: he understood that a healthy economy can't survive when there is a vast inequality in wealth distribution, while at the same time using the system to distribute wealth to himself and cronies. It doesn't matter what system you want, vast inequality cripples them all. Capitalism is a good system when there is a broad distribution of wealth, because then you get most of the people benefiting from the hard work of all.

The irony is that Republicans in the U.S. should have seen Chavez as a hero, in that he rigged the system to shift wealth to himself and friends -- the very same thing Republicans fight for in legislatures across the land.



p.s. -- rather than embalming him, they should throw his body into an "anything to oil" factory, where his remains can at least provide a bit more fuel for his people.

[xbuzzerx]

Chavez was EVIL BIG OIL -- Citgo.

I'm sorry ... is that a double standard -- big oil is OK if owned by socialists?

Hey Jack, ever seen how women or non-Muslims get treated in Saudi Arabia?

You'd take Hugo's homeland over that any day.

[CowboyBob]

Chavez was EVIL BIG OIL -- Citgo.

I'm sorry ... is that a double standard -- big oil is OK if owned by socialists?

So much hate emanating from Pastor Springer. So much anger and frustration.

[GiancarloC]

Chavez reduced unemployment, poverty and so forth so he did quite well at reducing inequalities... yet some here are still attacking him... he's the worst enemy of all right wingers. Chavez, Lula and others expose the fraudulent nature of right wingers... especially those in the United States. Lula said it best though... those sitting in Wall Street thought they knew everything but they really don't know JACK SHIT.

[Benvolio]

Chavez reduced unemployment, poverty and so forth so he did quite well at reducing inequalities... yet some here are still attacking him... he's the worst enemy of all right wingers. Chavez, Lula and others expose the fraudulent nature of right wingers... especially those in the United States. Lula said it best though... those sitting in Wall Street thought they knew everything but they really don't know JACK SHIT.

He reduced his own poverty by about 2 billion in 14 years.

[GiancarloC]

He reduced his own poverty by about 2 billion in 14 years.

Thanks for the distorted figures from the right wing sources... Have any more falsehoods to share?

Oh and the republican party has stole hundreds of billions from America, but I don't see anyone complaining about that one.

[xbuzzerx]

Thanks for the distorted figures from the right wing sources... Have any more falsehoods to share?

Oh and the republican party has stole hundreds of billions from America, but I don't see anyone complaining about that one.

Well yeah, it's only bad when darkies do it. Check out the dispropotionate whining about things like much overblown "tribal corruption" and such, when no one seems to mind that Halliburton and simliar contractors got no bid contracts with multi billions.

[CowboyBob]

He reduced his own poverty by about 2 billion in 14 years.

I thought all you right wingers for millionaires and billionaires sticking it to workers.

[GiancarloC]

Well yeah, it's only bad when darkies do it. Check out the dispropotionate whining about things like much overblown "tribal corruption" and such, when no one seems to mind that Halliburton and simliar contractors got no bid contracts with multi billions.

Crooks in the republican party are patriots and American heroes of course... the republican is willing to overlook the hundreds of billions lost in crooked contracts.

[bendted]

Many of your fellow Jubers are Gay/Bi Christians. All Christians do not believe Gays are bound for hell..The Church is slowly changing just like Congress and The White House.

You won't get far stereotyping people & their Faith.

Take it up with him, not me. He's saying I'm going to hell. He knows nothing about me except that I'm gay. He's a Christian, expressing his beliefs that gays go to hell.